Supernatural elements

I completely understand what everyone says and I accept the criticism. As I said everyone thinks something different. I don't care what anyone thinks. They can say what they like. Personally I find it amusing in a weird sort of way.

Sorry Halo...

He's not really attacking anyone. He's intelligently informing you of what he thinks and why he disagrees with you in a very non-offensive way

I think he is being a little Offensive... in his 1st post, but then he he explains him self in the 2nd, and Yeah, its Non-Offensive... and yeah he gives good reasons, I think his first post could have held more tact...

Like most would agree here you wouldn't see it as true unless you see it with your own eye's...

I mean I can explain my experinces, other than other worldy ones... Like the Ouija Board can move by the subconsious mind... Even though I was playing alone, and have never took German as a Language...

The Night terror thing, I have had Bad dreams all my life and I have waking dreams all the time, I could have dreamt it and not known I was sleeping...

First of all I'm impressed that no one yet barged into the topic and started insulting people for believing in what we call "supernatural".

I have arrived.

Angelic_Diablo and Morris Lawry's UFO stories are so silly I can't understand why the first replies weren't "LOL u looser!!"

the_ramen_noodle's story has nothing to do with UFOs at all and it happened "well past [his] bedtime". If every strange light I saw or sound I heard was a UFO then every rock in this universe would have to have an advanced space-faring civilization on it.

GilgameshRO's story is harder to explain but there was nothing supernatural about it, and it could easily have been some sort of terrestrial aircraft.

BanisherOfEden's story is idiotic.

I don't know how to explain AlwaysIdeas' stories except that he is a compulsive liar. That shit is so far fetched that something must be forcing him to tell these whoppers. ALiens, perhaps?

Ghost stories now...

1. The first time I experienced a spirit It was about 8 at night and it was dark, I needed to go to my room for some reason (can't remember) and so I walked towards the hallway which was dark so I flicked teh light switch and saw the shadow of a being quickly duck in to the toilet room so I went to open the door to see what it was but the room was empty. Not a trace of a being to be found. Freaked me out.

I've seen a million of those, they aren't spirits.

2. The second time I was lying in my bed at night ready to sleep when I looked around and saw two small lights float around in the corner. I just closed my eyes and hoped they went away... which they did after I told them to go away.

See above, also you were about to go to sleep.

3. Walking down the hallway to my room I saw some lights flash along the wall like somebody flashed a torch across the wall except I was home alone.

4. A few months ago I was walking to my room again to grab my Ipod when I looked down the hallway (you can see straight into my roo cause its at teh end) and saw a light shining in my room, I sniffed (because I had a cold and a runny nose), it was quite loud and the light just faded quickly...

Well you see spirits everywhere, don't you?

5. My Dad was up late and cooked him self a meal. He went to sit back down once he finished he took his dishes back up and notice the oven had been turned BACK on. He had turned it off in the first place. The same also happend to me.

Ghosts are trying to burn your house down.

6. The most recent. Last night I was sitting at the copmuter at 2 o'clock in the morning, I was sitting there chatting to Djang when I looked over to the lounge area (the right of me)and a human shaped white thing appeared and dissapeared right next to me... I moved as if it whas walking. Its was pretty opaque tooo, not a solid white shape.

Okay, you were

1. Looking at a computer screen at
2. 2AM, and you
3. saw a shape that looked like a person and quickly disappeared when you glanced away

Well, the facts may not agree with you but your story has convinced me!

I think the reason I have so many stories is because:

1. I look for stuff like that in life, I don't just sit around and let it come.
2. Like AlwaysIdeas I'm a believer.

Exactly - you try to explain anything slightly strange by saying that it was ghosts/aliens without any other evidence. Your dad forgetting to turn the oven off is not a ghost story, no matter how sure he was that he didn't forget.

I have more but these ones are stupid... and are most definatly not real.

haha oh wow

And people shouldn't insult or hurt people that believe in paranormal topics. They don't know what they experience. That is unfortunately the trouble with the majority of people, they don't believe until something happens to them.

But they have happened to me. The only difference between me and you is that I try to come up with a theory that doesn't involve ghosts when I want to explain something unusual. To date, I have never encountered something that can't be explained as something, you know, not silly.

Yes, but you, on my surprise, offered some solid arguments to this topic (Except for the insults you base on something you can't prove either and just because you can't doesn't mean it's not possible).

Here's my point of view, trying to handle both sides here, I prefer being a realist rather than a believer. Touche:

THE UFO: Don't know. Never saw them, never held the exact proof. Never even seen the exact proof. Yet it's possible. Specially when I think of the circles in the crops. You see, there where I live (not the USA), specially in small villages, people are far too simple minded and far too religious to go out, make fake circles, start a story about the aliens and go famous. Especially since it happened not yesterday, not 10 years ago, but a pretty long time ago. Not. As a matter of a fact, they thought it's the work of Satan (and some still do) until someone called cops to investigate, and cops called for inspectors, and they contacted scientists who arrived there and got confused. The territory is still under investigation and all who live there still speak of the strange day that occured there. What was it? Who knows. Aliens? Could be. HOWEVER, you also have people whoes hoby is receiving letters from some city in USA where they have a headquarters where they are receiving informations from something called "Starcity" in galaxy and are translating messages where "good" aliens are warning about "the bad aliens" and yadayadayada. Frankly, my dear, I believe this is complete rubbish.

THE SPIRITS: There's three of us. Those who simply do not believe. Those who believe for no particular reason that can prove something. And those who dwell in magic and spiritualism and actually deal with it and therefore believe. You see, you can slit your throat and cut your veines claiming there is no such thing as magic and spirits and you will die in false vision. There is. And it freaks me out.

I'm a realist. I do not believe in a god. Or any religion. They are all a bunch of crap to me. I don't believe in aliens too much as I have not been convinced enough (although I think it IS possible some other species may live in space, we can't say they don't). I DO NOT BELIEVE into ANYTHING I didn't SEE with MY OWN bare EYES. The non-believers never involve into such matters and that is the primary reason because of which they don't believe. However, that entire idea about magic and mysticism was pretty attractive at my age of 13 so I begin my studies. First of all, it worked. Second, I was involved into spiritual summoning. Third, I've seen it, shit my pants and stopped. Until I wanted to see the theory about angels and demons. I've called for an angel (And no, it's not blonde, it's not white, it doesn't have aureola, etc, it's a simple spectral eminence), shit my pants, and quit. There is a massive community of people who deal with this and that's a fact. These things exist, and therefore a possibility of so callled "home ghosts". There are video records, stories and deaths of young people and it's rather absurd to claim how oh half of the world is in conspiracy against non-believers. That's plain stupid. I don't know about alwaysideas or gypsi thing experience but I do know what I saw. It's no trance. It's no drug or any other consuming supstance at this matter and it's no illusion as I cannot stretch my arm ten ft and knock down a plant vase, stare at the spectral creature, thank and freak out, drop the summoning and change room in illusion, rightafter going back and cleaning out the room. Not.


Some thing simply are around.

I believe it is quite possible all of this exsists, but where some people actually have seen things, this effects the other group of people whos brain plays tricks on them. I'm not saying anyone here is a victim of this, but I think this is one reason why so many people have seen "Supernatural Elements". My theory anyway.

~ Darico

I DO NOT BELIEVE into ANYTHING I didn't SEE with MY OWN bare EYES

So you don't believe in air and oxigen, ok.

Okay I don't know if I believe the ghosty part of the stories even though half were mine.
It confuses me and I do not want to believe it.
I do believe in A'ens" I mean you can't sit there and tell me that the universe is so large and we are the only planet with any living thing on it?
If you think about it people only freak out about "Aliens" because they are different to us, yet animals (dogs, cats, lizards, monkeys, etc.) are different to us but because they have been on earth just aslong as we have we are used to them and don't think anything of it. If "Aliens" where on earth we would be living with them as if they are animals or another type off human race.

You should just let people believe what they want. You can't change how people feel...obviously
Attacks only trigger arguments. When dealing in delicate matters like this, you should be careful what you say.

You can't defend your claims so now you're calling it a "belief".

Sorry to tell you this as well, but I'm not a liar.

Then you can't tell dreams apart from reality.

People see shadow figures in the corner of their eye because they're an illusion, not because we naturally try to avoid them.

I think these shadowy figures are not Human nor Ghosts or Sprites but Creatures that move in a different time zone to us... May be they are Djinn's (Jinn) The race before man that walked the Earth and got Banished to Limbo by God... I am not Musslim, but I do think this could be possible... throughout history in every race and culture they have been reported... I myself have seen them many a time... I have been held down by one and punches have been thrown at my face... I reaserched this and found many have had simular done to them, take the example of the the entity with Carla Moran...

Evidence (if you can call it that)
Djinn's - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genie
Carla Moran - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carla_Moran
Held down at night - http://www.paraseek.com/discus/messages/25/486.html?WednesdayOctober1520030335pm

I know this proves very little, Djinn's like most things in religions is considered a load of rubbish in our modren day... Carla Moran is a Alias given and nobody really can say for sure what actually happened... Being Held down can be attributed to Sleep Paralasis...

it doesn't prove very little, it proves nothing. I won't address the genie article, the that Carla Moran article was written by parapsychology people, and even they can't  say for sure if the movie was based on truth because there is not a shred of proof.

That final link leads me to a short discussion about a person's sleep paralysis where people assume that it's evil spirits or something. I've experienced sleep paralysis plenty of times and there's nothing mystical about it.

All I can say is it happens to me and I know what I saw... A Hard Shadow, solid and moving around not effected by objects (distortion like a normal shadow)... I have tried to capture this on tape, I got some thing, My Camera has no night vision, the room is dull lit by my window (Room tinted a blue colour, you know)... And at the point I am held down the room Just goes Really dark... But thats hardly proof... Its so hard and fustrating to prove some thing like this... This started happening to me when I started playing with an Ouija Board and asked about GOD, I was speaking to what claimed to be called Queshed (A German name, I have found through Reaserch)... I was Called Scum three times, and the Planchet then refused to move any more... And still doesn't now...

So what you're saying is that you have you have no evidence for your incredible claims and that "Queshed" is a German name even though it clearly isn't?

I mean I can explain my experinces, other than other worldy ones... Like the Ouija Board can move by the subconsious mind...

Exactly, you trick yourself into thinking you aren't moving it even though you have your hand on the thing.

Even though I was playing alone, and have never took German as a Language...

And it's not like you've ever heard someone speak German, right?

Here's my point of view, trying to handle both sides here, I prefer being a realist rather than a believer. Touche:

THE UFO: Don't know. Never saw them, never held the exact proof. Never even seen the exact proof. Yet it's possible. Specially when I think of the circles in the crops. You see, there where I live (not the USA), specially in small villages, people are far too simple minded and far too religious to go out, make fake circles, start a story about the aliens and go famous. Especially since it happened not yesterday, not 10 years ago, but a pretty long time ago. Not. As a matter of a fact, they thought it's the work of Satan (and some still do) until someone called cops to investigate, and cops called for inspectors, and they contacted scientists who arrived there and got confused. The territory is still under investigation and all who live there still speak of the strange day that occured there. What was it? Who knows. Aliens? Could be. HOWEVER, you also have people whoes hoby is receiving letters from some city in USA where they have a headquarters where they are receiving informations from something called "Starcity" in galaxy and are translating messages where "good" aliens are warning about "the bad aliens" and yadayadayada. Frankly, my dear, I believe this is complete rubbish.

Then why did you go on and on about it?

THE SPIRITS: There's three of us. Those who simply do not believe. Those who believe for no particular reason that can prove something. And those who dwell in magic and spiritualism and actually deal with it and therefore believe. You see, you can slit your throat and cut your veines claiming there is no such thing as magic and spirits and you will die in false vision. There is. And it freaks me out.

Huh?

I'm a realist. I do not believe in a god. Or any religion.

Ghosts and magic are religious beliefs.

However, that entire idea about magic and mysticism was pretty attractive at my age of 13 so I begin my studies. First of all, it worked. Second, I was involved into spiritual summoning. Third, I've seen it, shit my pants and stopped. Until I wanted to see the theory about angels and demons. I've called for an angel (And no, it's not blonde, it's not white, it doesn't have aureola, etc, it's a simple spectral eminence), shit my pants, and quit. There is a massive community of people who deal with this and that's a fact. These things exist, and therefore a possibility of so callled "home ghosts". There are video records, stories and deaths of young people and it's rather absurd to claim how oh half of the world is in conspiracy against non-believers. That's plain stupid. I don't know about alwaysideas or gypsi thing experience but I do know what I saw. It's no trance. It's no drug or any other consuming supstance at this matter and it's no illusion as I cannot stretch my arm ten ft and knock down a plant vase, stare at the spectral creature, thank and freak out, drop the summoning and change room in illusion, rightafter going back and cleaning out the room. Not.


Some thing simply are around.

It's amazing that the world is crawling with ghosts and angels and genies but the only thing this massive community of people can offer to the public is some anecdotal evidence and blurry photographs.

You know who you sound like? That oneiromancer guy in that old alchemy thread who said that he could put a curse on me or whatever. He couldn't prove anything, either.

Okay I don't know if I believe the ghosty part of the stories even though half were mine.
It confuses me and I do not want to believe it.
I do believe in A'ens" I mean you can't sit there and tell me that the universe is so large and we are the only planet with any living thing on it?
If you think about it people only freak out about "Aliens" because they are different to us, yet animals (dogs, cats, lizards, monkeys, etc.) are different to us but because they have been on earth just aslong as we have we are used to them and don't think anything of it. If "Aliens" where on earth we would be living with them as if they are animals or another type off human race.

If aliens came from Earth then they wouldn't be aliens.

Then you can't tell dreams apart from reality.

I don't remember saying I was asleep or just woke up...

If you don't agree or have an open mind to this subject, don't bother posting here or critisize what everyone says. This was a subject for those that were interested, it has been completely spoiled due to ignorance.

I do agree that there are possible explainations for these things, but you obviously don't know what any of us have gone through.

Then you can't tell dreams apart from reality.

I don't remember saying I was asleep or just woke up...

It was clearly a dream. Oh, and you were four years old, right?

If you don't agree or have an open mind to this subject, don't bother posting here or critisize what everyone says.

I will never be silent when I encounter idiocy. That's right, idiocy.

This was a subject for those that were interested, it has been completely spoiled due to ignorance.

If you want to tell a story about a dream you had when you were four then and get comments like "wow omg u shure are brave!!!" then go to a paranormal forum and post it there. If you're going to tell that story anywhere else, it is the duty of every sensible person to put you in your place.

I do agree that there are possible explainations for these things, but you obviously don't know what any of us have gone through.

As I said before, I've experienced the same thing as everyone else has. You think I haven't seen flashes of light, shadowy figures, or heard voices when nobody was around? Well I have, but I've got enough brains in my head to know that they weren't real.

So you don't believe in air or oxygen, ok

Actually this was a pretty funny example of disproving since both air and oxygen are both visible and can be sensed under specific conditions. All involving eyes. Specially air. Taking my words so literally isn't the best of methods in discussion but since you go for it I might as well compare air with ghosts. Both visible under specific conditions, hmmm?

Then why did you go on and on about it?

This was lame, lol.

Ghosts and magic are religious beliefs.

Religious belief to you, buddy. Taking explanations as you see them fit, lol. Also try not to open a fancy dictionary explaining ghosts and magic because that particular dictionary holds a subjectional definition of it in all its glory and therefore it's rather unreliable. You aren't a cynical corpse that goes through life without selfrespect and does what others tell you, no? Then you probably have principes and beliefs of your own, yes? Some, or most of them, probably involve religious aspects of anykind, even just a common theory of love, no, yes? I might as well call you a believer. Following this, everything in the world is a belief and a matter of perspective, yes? If so, I guess ghosts and magic are religious belief. If no, then you talk nonsense. Heh.

It's amazing that the world is crawling with ghosts and angels and genies but the only thing this massive community of people can offer to the public is some anecdotal evidence and blurry photographs.

And so we finally came to point, you lack any possible knowledge regarding this. Well I might aswell enlighten a thing or two. Every being on this world radiates a particular energy and magnetism (and all of this what I'm talking is science-based and proved by the same, since obviously that tickles your boat). Common thing you see is how we react on a contact with something electrified and how can we charge each other by spontaneous contact, spread electricity through bodies in contact or just a common thing called "guts" that tell us something for each person you spot. The spirits (which I will divide to ghosts and angels/demons as there's a difference) as eminences aswell have their radiation and it is affecting machines. Simply put, their essence is of somewhat different state, appearing on a particular frequencies and zones differing from our own and just as we affect things, so do they. Through electromagnetism which is far the most common appearance in the world. What do you think why everyone always speaks about doing stuff like this under few candles and a weak lamp or a flashlight? Not to freak you out while you're watching horror movie but because the apparitions are causing disordering interferences that usually affect machines and electric power current. Why that happens? probaby because we did not develop to suit their needs but ours and we are different and we function different. Because of that, the recording cameras, pc systems and digital cams usually drop dead or turn off. That's why all you can do is eventually take a quick photoshot with non-digital camera. The old recording cameras could probably record it aswell, under condition they don't need electric powersource or won't be damaged but people usually do not posses an antique recording camera at home. Now, the difference between summoning a ghost or a "divine" (angelic, demonic) is in approach and their nature. The ghost usually keep some of aspects they had from the life. That is the common reason why people usually do not call for people they considered evil but for good and nice, usually the ones they loved. The thing is, with the ghosts, you need more trust and less fear. The angels/demons are a completely different thing. With them, you need full concentration, you need to be respectful, silent, you must not freak out, you must not be rude, you must not be cocky or ask offending questions. You must not show fear. In general, if you ever read about many incidents involving some kind of occultism/ritual where the person ended dead - the Angels or a Demon probably killed it, as they can (ghosts too) interact with us. Angels won't usually do anything unless you really offend them. Demons, on a contrary, can kill you anytime they so wish. The final problem that occurs is a matter of bravery and concentration. I don't believe you were never freaked out by anykind of horror movie or that nothing in your life ever happened that send very chilly and cold feeling into your stomack and chests. It's an adrenaline rush combined with the well-known fear hormones. They come from a source telling you there's something you, your mind and your body are not familiar with. I bet, if by any chance you are sleeping, and wake up and find two gray little aliens standing in the center of your room, or even worse, a tall, black figure standing above you, you would not be a movie hero amazed by it but would freak out and we could not tell a difference between your face and a wall behind you. That exact thing happens when those who call for ghosts or divine finally interact with them, and that same fear and/or fascination that happens is the primary reason why there are very rare resources of proof. It's something people should, so to say, train, but the intensity of pressure you feel and the fear that overwhelmes you is usually way too much. It's like putting you into a small cage with hungry and demented panther. I don't think you would stand up to it. These are the facts and I hope you got a better view into this aspect. Now, there is a question why they dissapear. Technically they don't but it's them who travel on a different state of world. Don't know how better to explain it. I did not make up the summonings, they exist for centuries and thousands of years so I can only guess it has something to do with the actual calling or ritual that may work as a key of sort. I'm still into it and don't fully understand it.

You know who you sound like? That oneiromancer guy in that old alchemy thread who said that he could put a curse on me or whatever. He couldn't prove anything, either.

Cursing and magic is a completely different topic and although I would not call that person and idiot for practicing it, I'd call it an idiot for thinking it can curse you because to curse someone first of all you need a ritual and something that belongs to you...but nevermind this, this has nothing to do with it and as you may notice, I do not just tell stories, rather, I tend to follow some scientific logic behind it.

And I'll once more repeat that I only question the "black, tall figure" stories because, although you can say that person in particular disorder might be seeing truth (which is a bit staggering to pass), a fact is most of these see kids or adolescents, it is mainly and always a disorder and it dissapears after treated or if a person gets over it by some particular events. A question why they always see black, tall figure is a good one and can be compared with the scientifically aproved issue involving people who spend a long time isolated and in a small room (usually prisoners) or those who get really drunk - prisoners see and have visions of ants everywhere an drunk people get visions of white mouses. No one knows why.

So you don't believe in air or oxygen, ok

Actually this was a pretty funny example of disproving since both air and oxygen are both visible and can be sensed under specific conditions. All involving eyes. Specially air. Taking my words so literally isn't the best of methods in discussion but since you go for it I might as well compare air with ghosts. Both visible under specific conditions, hmmm?

Everything can be observed in one way or another, but you can't directly see them. Gravity, for example, is invisible but you can infer its existence by seeing objects fall towards the ground.

Then why did you go on and on about it?

This was lame, lol.

I wasn't trying to make a joke. Why did you go on and on about something and then finish it by saying that you thought it wasn't real?

Ghosts and magic are religious beliefs.

Religious belief to you, buddy. Taking explanations as you see them fit, lol. Also try not to open a fancy dictionary explaining ghosts and magic because that particular dictionary holds a subjectional definition of it in all its glory and therefore it's rather unreliable.

Not a religious belief? You believe that there are higher powers and that you can interact with them using rituals.

You wanted to drag the dictionary into this, eh? Well how would you define "ghost"? I think the dictionary's definition is pretty accurate and unbiased:

"the soul of a dead person, a disembodied spirit imagined, usually as a vague, shadowy or evanescent form, as wandering among or haunting living persons."

If this isn't accurate then I want you to come up with a definition so that you can't hide behind "that isn't what I meant by 'ghost'".

You aren't a cynical corpse that goes through life without selfrespect and does what others tell ywou, no? Then you probably have principes and beliefs of your own, yes? Some, or most of them, probably involve religious aspects of anykind, even just a common theory of love, no, yes? I might as well call you a believer. Following this, everything in the world is a belief and a matter of perspective, yes? If so, I guess ghosts and magic are religious belief. If no, then you talk nonsense. Heh.

So because I don't think ghosts are real I have no self-respect? No, believing love is real is not religious belief. There is a difference between believing things that can be observed and proven and believing things that can only be proven to people who think the same way you do.

Well I might aswell enlighten a thing or two. Every being on this world radiates a particular energy and magnetism (and all of this what I'm talking is science-based and proved by the same, since obviously that tickles your boat).

Yeah, I've got this kooky fetish for things that are real. The fact that animals emit small amount of electricity is common knowledge (you could have gotten that from The Matrix, although human brains do not generate enough energy to actually affect anything). Animals don't radiate magnetism, although migratory animals can sense the Earth's poles and use them to navigate north and south.

Common thing you see is how we react on a contact with something electrified

Our muscles contract.

and how can we charge each other by spontaneous contact, spread electricity through bodies in contact

Do you mean static electricity?

or just a common thing called "guts" that tell us something for each person you spot.

Or something called "intuition" which does not originate from static electricity.

The spirits (which I will divide to ghosts and angels/demons as there's a difference) as eminences aswell have their radiation and it is affecting machines. Simply put, their essence is of somewhat different state, appearing on a particular frequencies and zones differing from our own and just as we affect things, so do they. Through electromagnetism which is far the most common appearance in the world. What do you think why everyone always speaks about doing stuff like this under few candles and a weak lamp or a flashlight? Not to freak you out while you're watching horror movie but because the apparitions are causing disordering interferences that usually affect machines and electric power current. Why that happens? probaby because we did not develop to suit their needs but ours and we are different and we function different. Because of that, the recording cameras, pc systems and digital cams usually drop dead or turn off. That's why all you can do is eventually take a quick photoshot with non-digital camera. The old recording cameras could probably record it aswell, under condition they don't need electric powersource or won't be damaged but people usually do not posses an antique recording camera at home.

It's pretty convenient that the only devices which work around these beings are the the most undependable.

You know who you sound like? That oneiromancer guy in that old alchemy thread who said that he could put a curse on me or whatever. He couldn't prove anything, either.

Cursing and magic is a completely different topic and although I would not call that person and idiot for practicing it, I'd call it an idiot for thinking it can curse you because to curse someone first of all you need a ritual and something that belongs to you...but nevermind this, this has nothing to do with it and as you may notice, I do not just tell stories, rather, I tend to follow some scientific logic behind it.

Wow.

A question why they always see black, tall figure is a good one and can be compared with the scientifically aproved issue involving people who spend a long time isolated and in a small room (usually prisoners) or those who get really drunk - prisoners see and have visions of ants everywhere an drunk people get visions of white mouses. No one knows why.

Since when do drunk people always see white mice?

By the way, I cut out that inane babble about angels and demons because it was, well, inane babble.

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Ghosts and magic are religious beliefs.

Religious belief to you, buddy. Taking explanations as you see them fit, lol. Also try not to open a fancy dictionary explaining ghosts and magic because that particular dictionary holds a subjectional definition of it in all its glory and therefore it's rather unreliable.

Not a religious belief? You believe that there are higher powers and that you can interact with them using rituals.

You wanted to drag the dictionary into this, eh? Well how would you define "ghost"? I think the dictionary's definition is pretty accurate and unbiased:

"the soul of a dead person, a disembodied spirit imagined, usually as a vague, shadowy or evanescent form, as wandering among or haunting living persons."

If this isn't accurate then I want you to come up with a definition so that you can't hide behind "that isn't what I meant by 'ghost'".

OED has ghost as -
"n. 1 an apparition of a dead person which is believed to appear to the living. 2 a faint trace: the ghost of a smile
- origin Old English. 'Spirit, soul' "

nowhere does that state it is imagined. However, as there is no prove, it states "believed".

So you don't believe in air or oxygen, ok

Actually this was a pretty funny example of disproving since both air and oxygen are both visible and can be sensed under specific conditions. All involving eyes. Specially air. Taking my words so literally isn't the best of methods in discussion but since you go for it I might as well compare air with ghosts. Both visible under specific conditions, hmmm?

Everything can be observed in one way or another, but you can't directly see them. Gravity, for example, is invisible but you can infer its existence by seeing objects fall towards the ground.

Thanks for supporting my point.

I wasn't trying to make a joke. Why did you go on and on about something and then finish it by saying that you thought it wasn't real?

Nope, I took three points of view, twice divided the situation and took effort to explain a thing or two. Unlike you who searches through a comment, takes one sentence out, picks a suitable questions and ignores everything else relevant, I take myself time to actually try to explain why and howcome.

Not a religious belief? You believe that there are higher powers and that you can interact with them using rituals.

Just the way you believe we can't. And no, you don't know that. You believe that.

You wanted to drag the dictionary into this, eh? Well how would you define "ghost"? I think the dictionary's definition is pretty accurate and unbiased:

"the soul of a dead person, a disembodied spirit imagined, usually as a vague, shadowy or evanescent form, as wandering among or haunting living persons."

If this isn't accurate then I want you to come up with a definition so that you can't hide behind "that isn't what I meant by 'ghost'".

You took that from a dictionary? Then you supported my point right. What does it say? "Usually as a vague, shadowy or evanescent form, as wandering among or haunting living persons"

So you believe what it says? If you believe what the dictionary says, how can you claim there's no such thing? Oh, you want to tell me that ghosts can also be imagined and made up in stories or movies and that the creator of dictionary took liberty to explain them as seen in movies and described in stories? That's a pretty pathetic work on dictionary, then. With that kind of work he might as well write down Magneto and describe fearsome x-man villain.

You aren't a cynical corpse that goes through life without selfrespect and does what others tell ywou, no? Then you probably have principes and beliefs of your own, yes? Some, or most of them, probably involve religious aspects of anykind, even just a common theory of love, no, yes? I might as well call you a believer. Following this, everything in the world is a belief and a matter of perspective, yes? If so, I guess ghosts and magic are religious belief. If no, then you talk nonsense. Heh.

So because I don't think ghosts are real I have no self-respect? No, believing love is real is not religious belief. There is a difference between believing things that can be observed and proven and believing things that can only be proven to people who think the same way you do.

Completely misplaced conclusion (with already concluded reason). As for the other part of the reply, ok so what actually makes you a person whose belief that those things do not exist right on this matter? Do you have any proof that these things do not exist? No. Absolutely not. While, strangely enough, I at least offer you some kind of logical explanation why something occurs or does not occur, and while, strangely enough, people do eventually atleast show some kind of photography, all you do, on a contrary, is say "That's made up." and suddenly you are right. My ass. I'm looking at all of your replies here (and took time to check yours in other topics) and not once did you ever offer anykind of really, really well argumented complaint. All you do is negate things. The fact I can write 10,000 words about it, and you take out one sentence and ask a question over which I can discuss with additional 10,000 words on which you reply with "Inane babble" is pretty pathetic for someone who is desperate to offend a person thinking to know or believing into something you don't find fit.

Yeah, I've got this kooky fetish for things that are real. The fact that animals emit small amount of electricity is common knowledge (you could have gotten that from The Matrix, although human brains do not generate enough energy to actually affect anything). Animals don't radiate magnetism, although migratory animals can sense the Earth's poles and use them to navigate north and south. Our muscles contract. Do you mean static electricity?

The magnetism is all-present in this world. And duh, "contacts". It's all about contacts and reaction. You perhaps don't believe in meditation and budism, then? How do you explain their floating above the ground when reaching ultimate state of mind? And if you by any chance think this is bullshit, think twice for they recorded them. Live. Or do you think that's yet another conspiracy and they altered the video? There are "things" in this world we are not aware of. Take that into concern next time.

Or something called "intuition" which does not originate from static electricity.

I never said it does, lol.

It's pretty convenient that the only devices which work around these beings are the the most undependable.

Yes, I expected that coming. So instead of undependable devices, when people speak of ghosts in the time when there were no devices to record with, you'll say they made it up. And in the time of primtive tribalism, it was their primitivity. That's really convenient from you, too. You sound like the new pope. Rock is evil. Lol, right.

Since when do drunk people always see white mice?

Since the day of begining. Ofcourse not always and ofcourse not everyone but they do. And it's always white mices. For the difference, prisoners, (or anyone held that way) in those rooms where they spend a long time alone, always see ants. Walking around the room, attacking, eating them, walking over them, etc. Always.

By the way, I cut out that inane babble about angels and demons because it was, well, inane babble.

Yes, this was also very smart from you, expected as well. "inane babble". You didn't study it. You know nothing about it. You don't even care. You never presented anykind of argument. Yet mine is babble, and you are right. Lol. Our new pope.

So you don't believe in air or oxygen, ok

Actually this was a pretty funny example of disproving since both air and oxygen are both visible and can be sensed under specific conditions. All involving eyes. Specially air. Taking my words so literally isn't the best of methods in discussion but since you go for it I might as well compare air with ghosts. Both visible under specific conditions, hmmm?

That's also pretty funny, you said see, not sense in the first place. Did you change your mind suddenly? Anyways, ghosts can also be "seen" just like you said. I was just pointing out that you should be more specific (since Santa'll get you at your balls if you don't), so no hard feelings.
Also just like Santa said, you can observe that things exist.
So don't get me wrong, I DO support your point. Also I liked how you pointed out "Prove that it doesn't exist".

@Santa: Take it easy. Your post was reported, no need to get mean.

So you don't believe in air or oxygen, ok

Actually this was a pretty funny example of disproving since both air and oxygen are both visible and can be sensed under specific conditions. All involving eyes. Specially air. Taking my words so literally isn't the best of methods in discussion but since you go for it I might as well compare air with ghosts. Both visible under specific conditions, hmmm?

That's also pretty funny, you said see, not sense in the first place. Did you change your mind suddenly? Anyways, ghosts can also be "seen" just like you said. I was just pointing out that you should be more specific (since Santa'll get you at your balls if you don't), so no hard feelings.
Also just like Santa said, you can observe that things exist.
So don't get me wrong, I DO support your point. Also I liked how you pointed out "Prove that it doesn't exist".

@Santa: Take it easy. Your post was reported, no need to get mean.

Well, truth is it's sometimes hard to specify. Specially since english ain't my common. Some words replace others without me actually thinking they aren't clear enough.

I wasn't trying to make a joke. Why did you go on and on about something and then finish it by saying that you thought it wasn't real?

Nope, I took three points of view, twice divided the situation and took effort to explain a thing or two. Unlike you who searches through a comment, takes one sentence out, picks a suitable questions and ignores everything else relevant, I take myself time to actually try to explain why and howcome.

No, what you did was ramble on.

Not a religious belief? You believe that there are higher powers and that you can interact with them using rituals.

Just the way you believe we can't. And no, you don't know that. You believe that.

I can say with certainty that ghosts do not exist and I can defend this claim. You, on the other hand, can't defend your claim because the only proof you have are unverifiable anecdotes. I have more right to say that I know the truth about ghosts than you do.
 

You wanted to drag the dictionary into this, eh? Well how would you define "ghost"? I think the dictionary's definition is pretty accurate and unbiased:

"the soul of a dead person, a disembodied spirit imagined, usually as a vague, shadowy or evanescent form, as wandering among or haunting living persons."

If this isn't accurate then I want you to come up with a definition so that you can't hide behind "that isn't what I meant by 'ghost'".

You took that from a dictionary? Then you supported my point right. What does it say? "Usually as a vague, shadowy or evanescent form, as wandering among or haunting living persons"

So you believe what it says? If you believe what the dictionary says, how can you claim there's no such thing? Oh, you want to tell me that ghosts can also be imagined and made up in stories or movies and that the creator of dictionary took liberty to explain them as seen in movies and described in stories? That's a pretty pathetic work on dictionary, then. With that kind of work he might as well write down Magneto and describe fearsome x-man villain.

Wow! Because the dictionary defines it, it is real? So: are dragons real?

You aren't a cynical corpse that goes through life without selfrespect and does what others tell ywou, no? Then you probably have principes and beliefs of your own, yes? Some, or most of them, probably involve religious aspects of anykind, even just a common theory of love, no, yes? I might as well call you a believer. Following this, everything in the world is a belief and a matter of perspective, yes? If so, I guess ghosts and magic are religious belief. If no, then you talk nonsense. Heh.

So because I don't think ghosts are real I have no self-respect? No, believing love is real is not religious belief. There is a difference between believing things that can be observed and proven and believing things that can only be proven to people who think the same way you do.

Completely misplaced conclusion (with already concluded reason). As for the other part of the reply, ok so what actually makes you a person whose belief that those things do not exist right on this matter? Do you have any proof that these things do not exist? No. Absolutely not. While, strangely enough, I at least offer you some kind of logical explanation why something occurs or does not occur, and while, strangely enough, people do eventually atleast show some kind of photography, all you do, on a contrary, is say "That's made up." and suddenly you are right. My ass. I'm looking at all of your replies here (and took time to check yours in other topics) and not once did you ever offer anykind of really, really well argumented complaint. All you do is negate things. The fact I can write 10,000 words about it, and you take out one sentence and ask a question over which I can discuss with additional 10,000 words on which you reply with "Inane babble" is pretty pathetic for someone who is desperate to offend a person thinking to know or believing into something you don't find fit.

I don't know why I should offer any proof, since it should be apparent to anyone with the slightest bit of intuition that ghosts - disembodied souls - are not real. What evidence can I offer that isn't staggeringly obvious? Ghosts are an impossibility, their supposed existence flies in the face of hundred of year of scientific observation. It's like saying that if you jump hard enough you can fly.

Your "logical arguments" are pseudoscientific claims about static electricity and whatnot. As I've said before, your evidence points to nothing at all - blurry lights on a Polaroid is not evidence of ghosts but of a faulty camera.

By the way, don't bitch me out because you can't back up your goofy claims with anything solid. Sure, you can type 10,000 wordss about ghosts and I can reply with 'inane drivel" because it is drivel.

Yeah, I've got this kooky fetish for things that are real. The fact that animals emit small amount of electricity is common knowledge (you could have gotten that from The Matrix, although human brains do not generate enough energy to actually affect anything). Animals don't radiate magnetism, although migratory animals can sense the Earth's poles and use them to navigate north and south. Our muscles contract. Do you mean static electricity?

The magnetism is all-present in this world. And duh, "contacts". It's all about contacts and reaction. You perhaps don't believe in meditation and budism, then? How do you explain their floating above the ground when reaching ultimate state of mind? And if you by any chance think this is bullshit, think twice for they recorded them. Live. Or do you think that's yet another conspiracy and they altered the video? There are "things" in this world we are not aware of. Take that into concern next time.

Are you serious? Or are you messing with me? Yes, magnetism is present everywhere in the world; it's why compasses work. What no one in the world has been able to do is show how magnetism can affect intuition, much less grant a ability to know things about a person that sight alone can't provide.

EDIT: Also, only two monks in the past hundred years have managed to float? Let me guess, none of the witnesses were scientists. I remember an episode of Ripley's Believe It Or Not which showed a monk "floating" and it turned out that the staff he was holding was actually a rod holding up a platform upon which the monk sat. Magicians do the same thing all the time but they admit that it's all just sleight of hand.

Or something called "intuition" which does not originate from static electricity.

I never said it does, lol.

Then what kind of magical electricity were you talking about?

It's pretty convenient that the only devices which work around these beings are the the most undependable.

Yes, I expected that coming. So instead of undependable devices, when people speak of ghosts in the time when there were no devices to record with, you'll say they made it up. And in the time of primtive tribalism, it was their primitivity. That's really convenient from you, too. You sound like the new pope. Rock is evil. Lol, right.

What the hell are you talking about? Yes, in times when people didn't know any better people tried to fit their observations into a cultural framework. Vulcan in the volcano, Loki shaking the earth, etc.

Since when do drunk people always see white mice?

Since the day of begining. Ofcourse not always and ofcourse not everyone but they do. And it's always white mices. For the difference, prisoners, (or anyone held that way) in those rooms where they spend a long time alone, always see ants. Walking around the room, attacking, eating them, walking over them, etc. Always.

First you say it doesn't always happen to everyone and then you say that it does? Which is it? I've never heard anything about this and I have plenty of family members who drink.

By the way, I cut out that inane babble about angels and demons because it was, well, inane babble.

Yes, this was also very smart from you, expected as well. "inane babble". You didn't study it. You know nothing about it. You don't even care. You never presented anykind of argument. Yet mine is babble, and you are right. Lol. Our new pope.

What is there for me to say, exactly? "Not all angels are nice"? You're right, I skimmed through it because there was no content in there whatsoever. You might as well have been arguing about magical laws from Harry Potter.

@Santa: Take it easy. Your post was reported, no need to get mean.

If my post was reported because I hurt someone's feelings I couldn't care less.

You wanted to drag the dictionary into this, eh? Well how would you define "ghost"? I think the dictionary's definition is pretty accurate and unbiased:

"the soul of a dead person, a disembodied spirit imagined, usually as a vague, shadowy or evanescent form, as wandering among or haunting living persons."

If this isn't accurate then I want you to come up with a definition so that you can't hide behind "that isn't what I meant by 'ghost'".

OED has ghost as -
"n. 1 an apparition of a dead person which is believed to appear to the living. 2 a faint trace: the ghost of a smile
- origin Old English. 'Spirit, soul' "

nowhere does that state it is imagined. However, as there is no prove, it states "believed".

Wow, it's almost as if I got my definition form another source. Isn't that amazing? Mine comes from dictionary.com, so there's bound to be a few typos. The comma should come before "imagined", not after. Fix it and the true meaning of the sentence will become clear.

No, what you did was ramble on.

No, lol, you're the one who rambling and jumping in its own mouth.

I can say with certainty that ghosts do not exist and I can defend this claim...

Lol, no you can't.

I have more right to say that I know the truth about ghosts than you do.

Lol, no you don't.
 

Wow! Because the dictionary defines it, it is real? So: are dragons real?

Jumping in your own mouth, again, Santa. I'm thinking on quiting chat, you can't track this.

I don't know why I should offer any proof, since it should be apparent to anyone with the slightest bit of intuition that ghosts - disembodied souls - are not real. What evidence can I offer that isn't staggeringly obvious? Ghosts are an impossibility, their supposed existence flies in the face of hundred of year of scientific observation. It's like saying that if you jump hard enough you can fly.

Well lol you should since all you do is offend and say "babble". Where did you get babble from? Nowhere. My side at least has a point, what's yours? None. "Doesn't exist." Yay. Half the world is completely wrong. Lol.

Your "logical arguments" are pseudoscientific claims about static electricity and whatnot. As I've said before, your evidence points to nothing at all - blurry lights on a Polaroid is not evidence of ghosts but of a faulty camera.

By the way, don't bitch me out because you can't back up your goofy claims with anything solid. Sure, you can type 10,000 wordss about ghosts and I can reply with 'inane drivel" because it is drivel.

You're babbling.

Yeah, I've got this kooky fetish for things that are real. The fact that animals emit small amount of electricity is common knowledge (you could have gotten that from The Matrix, although human brains do not generate enough energy to actually affect anything). Animals don't radiate magnetism, although migratory animals can sense the Earth's poles and use them to navigate north and south. Our muscles contract. Do you mean static electricity?

The magnetism is all-present in this world. And duh, "contacts". It's all about contacts and reaction. You perhaps don't believe in meditation and budism, then? How do you explain their floating above the ground when reaching ultimate state of mind? And if you by any chance think this is bullshit, think twice for they recorded them. Live. Or do you think that's yet another conspiracy and they altered the video? There are "things" in this world we are not aware of. Take that into concern next time.

Then what kind of magical electricity were you talking about?

None, discussing intuition.

It's pretty convenient that the only devices which work around these beings are the the most undependable.

What the hell are you talking about?

If you stop reading half of the comment perhaps you'll understand something. I can't help you there.

First you say it doesn't always happen to everyone and then you say that it does? Which is it? I've never heard anything about this and I have plenty of family members who drink.

Actually it's the oposite. Not tracking conversation there, Santa...Didn't think I'll have to bring it up, the mice factor was a common thing. At least "in past". Truth is it does not appear all the time or in all person but the very point is it's always white mices, gosh, how about you figure that out for once? Same thing for ants (which, I see, you constantly avoide). I didn't make it up, lol, it's a scientific fact. None the less.

What is there for me to say, exactly? "Not all angels are nice"? You're right, I skimmed through it because there was no content in there whatsoever. You might as well have been arguing about magical laws from Harry Potter.

It was not a babble. You can say it perhaps had no actual importance in the post but it was not a babble - as long as you prove it opposite. Fetch that, Santa.

If my post was reported because I hurt someone's feelings I couldn't care less.

If this is related to me, I'm not hurt. Just amused by your lack of tracking.

g2g

This is completely rediculous.

I'm not touching this thing with a fifty foot pole.

Lockage is surely imminent.

No, I mean that they actually believe this stuff is completely rediculous.

This is pretty ridiculous. You know, even scientists in the field of the paranormal will tell you almost all claims of "ghosts" can be written off as something completely normal, and the rest that can't be explained doesn't mean it's necessarily ghosts either. What's considered a ghost could be something completely normal that science just can't explain yet, and maybe one day they'll be able to.

I figured most of you here who believe in ghosts would also be intelligent enough to realize that there's also the possibility that it could be something else, and not the spirit of a dead person. But clearly, I overestimated you.

As for me, I think the idea of ghosts is pretty cool, but do I believe in them? I've had very little happen to make me believe they exist.

And for those of you upset with Ultra Santa's posts because they were "mean", I say get over it. Why were they mean? Because he said ass and bullshit? Everything I've read is just him poking holes in your claims/argument, and have not read any name-calling, or any of the sort. Or are you perhaps upset because you know that maybe he's bested you?

In any case, I can't see any worthwhile conversation being continued here, so, at least for now, this is going to be locked.

Halo, it wasn't Decadent who reported the post. (-_-')

If my post was reported because I hurt someone's feelings I couldn't care less.

I see... I see... another ban... in near future... maybe...
You don't have to be an ass so people are listening to you. It's actually otherwise. If you can debate without continiuosly flaming, people will be more likely to listen and will respect your opinion more.

The only flaming i saw was calling one guy's post inane drivel/babble. And, well, I agree with him there.