God and Hell.

Now don't get me wrong, I'm not saying evolution is false, I'm saying creation through evolution is not possible. Things evolve everyday, but single cell organisms cannot form into multi cellular organisms. The simple cell cannot become a complex cell. DNA is made up of tiny signatures or codes. These codes are written in groups of 4 letters (amino acids). The chances of a single strand of code properly being formed is already 1/256 . But to form a living organism, you need more than one strand of code, you need 100's of thousands. The chance of that happening is beyond 1 * 10**231 (1 times ten to the 231st power). Way beyond. And to say this happened multiple times? Also the strands of DNA would most likely be destroyed. "Early earth" didn't have the correct conditions to sustain such a transition.

So you can say it's possible for God to exist, who created everything, yet there's no way that creation through evolution is possible? Assuming God is real, then that would mean he could do anything except this? That's stupid. Just because it isn't likely doesn't mean it isn't possible. It also doesn't mean we understand it enough to say it is possible.

As if any of this matters anyway. Who cares? Why do you all keep making these religion topics when clearly we're going to have the same result every single time? No one is going to get through to one another. You should spend less time trying to convince people over the internet that one religion is better than another and maybe... go outside and do something.

Honestly, I've read large parts of the Bible, I'm fascinated by it. Almost obsessed you might say. By that and scientology, but that's a whole other story, but, you know, I'm obsessed and fascinated with all that shit.
As I said, I've read large parts of the Bible, and I will say, honestly, that the Bible truly is, one of the funniest books I've ever read. It's fucking FUNNY. I mean, right out of the gate it's funny. I mean the first six pages. I mean, that shit is the most D&D bullshit crazy shit. "And then, the all-powerful... thing, SWOOPED DOWN and sent a plague of frogs upon all the heathens. Let's give him more powers! Roll the die."
"And then he was dead for three days, and ROSE UP TO HEAVEN!" That's total D&D nonsense.
The Bible is so crazy. First of all, if you know the history of the Bible, and just its entire massive history, and how it was written in these dead languages and then translated and then re-translated into other languages and then re-translated by monarchs based on their whims and, you know, all this shit, and people interpret it in their own way, and you sit there, and you still after all that, realize that the Bible was written thousands of years ago when people were EVEN DUMBER than we are today. Think about that. Go outside, wait till the bars empty out, fucking go home, watch FOX TV, and realize that, "Wow, the Bible was written by people even dumber than all these motherfuckers."
That's the Bible you're reading, and has been read to you for generations. I mean, it's absurd to believe in that shit because, all right, first of all - forget that, let's just look at Genesis. Just as an example.
Rigt off the bat, I swear, the funniest six pages in literary history. God, this all-powerful God, decides he's gonna make Earth. It takes him six days, to make Earth. There's all kinds of other crazy shit going on. But it takes him six days, six calendar days, I assume it's a Gregorian Calendar. Six days to make the Earth, and then... he rests, on the seventh day because he's exhausted. "Whoo, man. Those rivers took a lot outta me." IT"S FUCKING GOD! God gets tired? God needs a nap? This isn't the God I was made to understand exists and rules all our lives. God gets tired after six days.
Then, he decides to make this HUGE planet. HUGE. Massive planet. It takes him six fucking days. It's huge. He makes the ice caps. He makes Ecuador. He makes New Jersey. He makes this huge planet. And then he decides, "You know what? I'm gonna put one dude in there. One guy." So he makes Adam... "Enjoy!", and leaves, to go make Venus, I guess.
So he makes Adam, and then it occurs to him later, when he checks back in on him: "Aw, he's lonely. Aw, shit, I forgot to make other people for him to hang out with. I thought he'd be able to communicate with the sparrow. But, I guess he's just sitting, and taking a shit, not knowing what to do. I didn't really have the foresight. Well, what the fuck do I know? I'm just God I know everything." So when Adam's sleeping he takes a rib out and makes Eve for him.
Then Adam and Eve have Cain and Abel. Well, first of all, there's the thing with the snake and the tree. We all know that story, I don't wanna - it's quite sad. It is our original fall from grace.
Then Cain slays Abel, his brother, and then Cain's punishment is that he's banished from Eden and he has to go to Nod, where God provides him with a wife. So, his punishment is that he doesn't have to hang out with his parents anymore, and there's somebody he can fuck whenever he wants. That's his punishment. And he didn't even lose a rib for it!
But the best part about the Bible is in Genesis, in like, page 2 through 6, when Cain gets banished, and they have to explain how they get from four people, they get to Noah's time, where the Bible kind of kicks in again, and there's like six pages of explaining four people to a million, without explaining, you know, evolution, or... incest or anything. Because there was a LOT of motherfuckin' going on there. A lot of motherfucking, sisterfucking, daughterfucking... tons of fucking... rampant incest. Tons of incest. They just explain how we get to a million people without explaining evolution which is so obviously a load of shit, haha. You know, come on! The scientists with their theories, and their facts! Pssh, you know? That's nonsense, everybody knows it was a talking snake in a tree. We all know that! That's how the Earth started! It wasn't some long, protracted evolutionary process it was a talking snake in a tree.
I tell you what, if you're actually that dumb - if you actually don't believe in evolution, if you really are that deluted, then I tell you what: As an experiment, give an elderly person and a chimpanzee a camera, and watch them both try to operate it. Same fucking thing. They'll both thy to figure it out, and it'll flash and the chimp will run around scared, and take a shit and throw it around. And the elderly person just takes a shit, and that's evolution, is that where we progressed to where the elderly people do not throw their poo around, and we're better off for it.
So, in Genesis there's this long list of people. But the best part is they all grow up to be 840 years old. 910 years old. 940 years old. And you're reading this going, "What? 940 years old? Oh my god!". Have you seen a 100-year old? What kind of fucking god is making people be 940 years old? If you're 100, you fall down, break your hip, and that's it. Wherever you land, that's where you going to be for the next eight hundred motherfucking years. You are nothing but a shit and piss factory my friend. You just sit there and hope a piece of fruit falls off a tree and lands near your face, so you have something to eat.

WIN [/thread]

Look around you. Do you think this came about by chance? For all we know God put us here; two people from opposite sides of the country, who never would have met otherwise are discussing a life changing subject. Have you never felt God tug at your heart?

It's foolish to say this came about by chance. Even if you don't believe in God, to say it came about by chance would be foolish. Mankind has tried as much as possible to turn away from the logical solution of a living God and turn to the illogical solution of evolution.

Now don't get me wrong, I'm not saying evolution is false, I'm saying creation through evolution is not possible. Things evolve everyday, but single cell organisms cannot form into multi cellular organisms. The simple cell cannot become a complex cell. DNA is made up of tiny signatures or codes. These codes are written in groups of 4 letters (amino acids). The chances of a single strand of code properly being formed is already 1/256 . But to form a living organism, you need more than one strand of code, you need 100's of thousands. The chance of that happening is beyond 1 * 10**231 (1 times ten to the 231st power). Way beyond. And to say this happened multiple times? Also the strands of DNA would most likely be destroyed. "Early earth" didn't have the correct conditions to sustain such a transition.

Even if it was possible, that does not answer the origin of life itself. Who put that stuff there? Martians? Okay, then who created the martians? Mankind has tried to dodge the question for centuries comming up with more and more (well though out I'll admit yet still -- ) foolish ideas and ignore the logical conclusion of a supernatural creation. One by a living God.

Someone living in an area not discovered by the masses can look around and say that there must be a God. Why is it that they can, and we can't.

Back to your original question, "How can I truely see if God is real?"

It's not a knowing. It's an understanding. You can "know" you flushed the toilet. You can "know" you did your homework. But you can still be wrong. But when you truely seek God, you WILL find Him. The understanding is there, He speaks to you "Here I am, I have been with you always."

It's like a knowledge you've had your entire life yet always overlooked.

Also, if it's not real, then how come 100's of thousands of people feel His presence every day? If He's not real, how can that many people fool themselves with the exact same illusion?

EDIT : I'll be back in a bit too, I've got to shower. Also I recommend the book - A Case for Faith. I'm reading it right now (actually, I lost it *sad face*, but am in the proccess of reading it). If nothing else, it's a good read to understand the question you asked me.

Lol, that post is so brainwashed. Sorry

It's so easy to reverse it even using your own terms. To make up some imaginary supernatural being that created us is foolish.

You feel god, know he's there. You think you do. You've thought it for so long, that eventually you can't fathom the idea of it being false. Basically: Religion : roll :

I fall in the group of people that basically just don't really give a damn how I got here. Why do I need to know? I'll live out my life and when I die, that will most likely be it. To be honest it doesn't really scare me. I'll simply, well, end.

[edit] Halo's quote, lol. It's so easy to ridicule you guys ;(

I believe in God 100%
Heaven and hell 95%.

But in hell they stick hot pokers in your ass !

I have some questions...

I god created the universe and everything init, who created god?

So many people claim that rock is the devils work?
then why is there christian rock bands?

How come when people are sick people pray and ask god for them to get better, and then the person dies and the people then go on to say that its what god wanted?
They go on acting like nothng happned but God ignores there prayers? WTF?

I dont mean to be disrespecting people. I mean Im the deputy head boy of a christian school so its not like Im being prejudice they are just questions that have always plauged me and it seems tsuno is answering godly questions so i thought i would ask.

God is eternal, he was there even before time. It's a paradox to say: "Who created God". And God isn't there to fullfill all your prayers.
Just for info, I pray every evening. I maybe ask for something less often than once a month and mostly actually get something I never would have expected.
Just the other day something really shit happened and I was really upset about all of this. Even that much that I maybe started to doubt all of this. Only two days later, after talking with a friend about a completely different matter, I realized how foolish it was. My faith is stronger than it ever was. I have gotten even more than I expected: I've got hope.

Don't confuse FAITH and LOVE with the "institution" Catholic Church these days.

Okay thanks for clearing that up...
One more thing... Is god a person coz we refer to him as he and him.

Actually God is not a he. He is not a she either, God is beyond these material sepearation (which actually proves: men and women are equal in a spiritual view). I know, it's hard to understand and I can't explain it either, nobody can.

The reason why God is called with he is because he is refered as the father and during the time (thousands of years B.C.) men were the dominating sex, so nobody could actually have accepted that God is a she. And even less that is is neither and both, because he is beyond that.

Also what sense would life have if all prayers would be answered? This would be Heaven then. (Actually it would turn everything into chaos, but let's not consider this fact now... (^_^'))

I have some questions...

I god created the universe and everything init, who created god?

No-one, God was here from the "starting"

I have some questions...

How come when people are sick people pray and ask god for them to get better, and then the person dies and the people then go on to say that its what god wanted?
They go on acting like nothng happned but God ignores there prayers? WTF?

Somethings are meant to happen. sAy someone comes to rob your house and you tell him plz dont rob my house, its not gonna happen.
But if you say "or i'll call the police" he'll atleast get a LITTLE afraid.
thats why they say God helps who helps themselves. Pray to God and also take medicines, do excercise/yoga lol...then you'll be better.

Actually God is not a he. He is not a she either, God is beyond these material sepearation (which actually proves: men and women are equal in a spiritual view). I know, it's hard to understand and I can't explain it either, nobody can.

The reason why God is called with he is because he is refered as the father and during the time (thousands of years B.C.) men were the dominating sex, so nobody could actually have accepted that God is a she. And even less that is is neither and both, because he is beyond that.

Also what sense would life have if all prayers would be answered? This would be Heaven then. (Actually it would turn everything into chaos, but let's not consider this fact now... ('))

1. Yes it is true, God is not a he or she. BUt as they show in cartoons and old stories @_@ . But it all comes up to say that God is one.
2. Totaly true. But there are Godesses..Behind every succesful man is a woman they say.
But you knows. FOr now let us asume that God is He and God is One.
3. Okay i said that, in a different manner, but your point is totally correct to.

You feel god, know he's there. You think you do. You've thought it for so long, that eventually you can't fathom the idea of it being false. Basically: Religion : roll :

You have no clue how wrong you are with this post. Do you think I was a christian from the start? No. I became a christian 2 years ago. For 13 years I was an atheist hating the idea of a God. Thinking it was just something people made up for explaining the unexplained.

I was not trying to fool myself when I became saved. My mind didn't play tricks on me. Nobody had to say anything to me. I was just around all my Christian friends. I began to feel extreem conviction deep within myself. How can one fool one's own self when they don't want to even think about it in the first place?

When I became saved a huge weight lifted off my shoulders.
That post was not full of brainwashed nonsense.
If you see it as that, then who do you really think has been brainwashed?

@HoTS - Wow, erm, thanks for insulting my innermost convictions. I care about you guys, that's why I do this. I never said God couldn't create through evolution, I said it was impossible for it to happen naturaly. Of course, I don't believe God created through evolution either.
The very first thing the Bible says God created was Light and Dark, which he sepearated into the moon and the sun.
The bible says it took him 7 days to create the earth. He had already created a method with which WE OURSELVES could keep track of time. He used this time method to show how long it took Him. (Sun Up, Sun Down, Day) Evolution takes proccess over millions of years. Why would God take millions of years to do something, then lie and say it only took Him 7 days. God is pure, He does not lie. He's righteous, if He lied He wouldn't be able to enter His own kingdom.

maybe it took 7 zillion years but to him it was 7 days...

Ok... new Qs.

Q- If god is all powerful then how did he get tired?
Q- Why does the god in the new testament and old seem different?

OLD= Kill you! Smite you! Kill your son! Ahhh!
NEW= I love you! You bad boy, time out!

Do you think I was a christian from the start?

I assumed that. I was brought up christian, and my thoughts were like yours, until I started to think intelligently for myself. Nearly all of the christians I know had it drilled into them from childhood. The ones who are converts are the ones who don't really follow it totally. I.e. they'll admit their religion, to to church, pray maybe, but heck no they're not going to drink, have sex before marriage, or have anything so terrible as caffeine.

When I became saved a huge weight lifted off my shoulders.

Because you think you now have an explanation for your existance?

That post was not full of brainwashed nonsense.
If you see it as that, then who do you really think has been brainwashed?

How would I be brainwashed? I hold no opinion or beleif of how I got here, and I have no idea and no desire to either find out or try to explain it.

I can't post this in Intelligant debate, becaues of obvious reasons. Yet it is not spam, so here it is.

You are a coward.

Jesus threatens us with Hell.

Where in the Bible does He threaten us with Hell? Give me a verse and I will look into it for you. Where does He say "IF YOU DON'T CHOOSE ME, YOU'RE GOING TO HELL!!". No where. What He does say, however, is "Mankind is born with sin, God my Father loves all, but sin His kingdom can not have. It is not the Will of God for all to perish, but rather to have everlasting life. Choose me and toss off your burdens, let me carry them as I carried the cross for you, then can you enter Heaven, for that is My Will."

I don't know if you notice, but that is God saying "Give me all of your troubles, I will bear the weight, give me all of your sin, I will make you pure as I have died for you on the cross.

Where does He say "IF YOU DON'T CHOOSE ME, YOU'RE GOING TO HELL!!". No where.

Choose me and toss off your burdens, let me carry them as I carried the cross for you, then can you enter Heaven, for that is My Will."

If you can only enter Heaven if you choose Jesus (or lived a righteous life in a place where Christianity does not exist, like the pre-Colombian Americas) then there is only one other alternative: Hell.

God is evil. He authored many wars and genocides throughout the old testament.

Well... Yes and No.
You have to realize that the people who God ordered be destroyed were not nice people. If you read in context, you'll realize that there was a common theme among these people. They hated God, they hated God's people (Jews). They would stop at nothing to destroy God's people. They were dangerous. God had to do something or the blood line through which he would enter Earth and take the punishment for our sins would be destroyed.

Now, there were also many women and children killed as well.
Consider this.
IF God were to allow them to live, what would happen? When the child is old enough, the mother will tell the child of the hated race that destroyed their people, and of the God who ordered it. The child will become filled with hatred and... would vow to destroy God's chosen people. The same problem would resurface.

Now, let's say he killed the mothers, but let the children live.
Do I even have to go into this? They would most likely die an agonizing death all alone in the flipping desert.

Is God Evil?
It certainly seems so to those against Him, He is a dangerous adversary, He made everyone, so He know's everyone's weaknesses.
To those on His side? He is a kind and merciful God, willing to give up everything just so we could be with Him for eternity.

Well he is kind to his followers, so I guess that makes everything all right.

@HoTS - Wow, erm, thanks for insulting my innermost convictions.

So? Just because you believe in something doesn't mean that it can't be scrutinized.

I never said God couldn't create through evolution, I said it was impossible for it to happen naturaly.

Why?

Of course, I don't believe God created through evolution either.

No, he just created mountains of evidence to mess with humanity.

The very first thing the Bible says God created was Light and Dark, which he sepearated into the moon and the sun.
The bible says it took him 7 days to create the earth. He had already created a method with which WE OURSELVES could keep track of time. He used this time method to show how long it took Him. (Sun Up, Sun Down, Day) Evolution takes proccess over millions of years. Why would God take millions of years to do something, then lie and say it only took Him 7 days. God is pure, He does not lie. He's righteous, if He lied He wouldn't be able to enter His own kingdom.

Your argument against evolution starts with the assumption that God created life when the theory works fine without him. You aren't pointing out any flaws - just saying that it isn't what God would do. For this argument to have any value you would have to prove that the Christian God is real that the Bible - specifically, your interpretation - is the literal word of God and is completely factual.

@Silverline - Understood. I was turning the brainwashed comment around, attempting to point out that neither of us are brainwashed.

@Jesus Hitler -
1st Comment - I'm not a coward, I just happen to know  from experience that topics like this are less likely to become flamed if they're not in Intelligant Debate.

2nd Comment - You're correct in saying the ony alternative is Hell. That does not mean He threatened us with it. It's like a parent telling the child, "You can continue to throw a temper tantrum and go to your room, or you can stop and we'll go get ice cream. I don't want to punish you, but I will if I have to because leaving you on the floor is not an option."

3rd Comment - Let me rephrase this. God is neither Good NOR Bad (for those are terms we came up with). God is, however, righteous. He will punish those who have done wrong and will reward those who have done right. He will destroy evil, and nurture good.

@BoE - The answer to the first question is simple. (If you're refering to the passage in Genesis regarding creationg; otherwise you'll have to inform me what you're talking about.) You don't have to be tired to rest. If you're working on a painting, you can rest and look it over, seeing if there's anything else you can do. I believe when it says that "On the seventh day God rested", it's merely saying that God sat back and admired His work.

As for your second question, I will have to look into it. I don't want to give you a quickly thought up answer, I want to give you a researched answer. Not that the other answer's I've given haven't been researched, I just haven't looked into this yet.

I can't help but read this shit and feel sick. People like Tsuno disgust me. How can anyone hold such conviction for a fantasy? So many people are obsessed with this intangible imaginary entity that they call their god. Try taking your head out of the clouds for a minute and look at the world with your own eyes. Think with you own mind. You speak of god lifting your burdens, but I say god IS the burden. Everywhere you go you take him with you. He tells you what to do or what to think. Why would you do this?  How could anyone prefer the word of god to independence? Are you too scared, too incompetent to face the world youself? Do you need this shield called god to blind you? I don't think I'll ever understand, but it disgusts me either way.

I can't help but read this shit and feel sick. People like Tsuno disgust me. How can anyone hold such conviction for a fantasy? So many people are obsessed with this intangible imaginary entity that they call their god. Try taking your head out of the clouds for a minute and look at the world with your own eyes. Think with you own mind. You speak of god lifting your burdens, but I say god IS the burden. Everywhere you go you take him with you. He tells you what to do or what to think. Why would you do this?  How could anyone prefer the word of god to independence? Are you too scared, too incompetent to face the world youself? Do you need this shield called god to blind you? I don't think I'll ever understand, but it disgusts me either way.

Gil, you have said all that needs to be said.

@Jesus Hitler -
1st Comment - I'm not a coward, I just happen to know  from experience that topics like this are less likely to become flamed if they're not in Intelligant Debate.

But the same people who post in intelligent debate post here as well.

2nd Comment - You're correct in saying the ony alternative is Hell. That does not mean He threatened us with it. It's like a parent telling the child, "You can continue to throw a temper tantrum and go to your room, or you can stop and we'll go get ice cream. I don't want to punish you, but I will if I have to because leaving you on the floor is not an option."

AS if eternal punishment was a real alternative that anyone would want.

3rd Comment - Let me rephrase this. God is neither Good NOR Bad (for those are terms we came up with). God is, however, righteous. He will punish those who have done wrong and will reward those who have done right. He will destroy evil, and nurture good.

ANd yet he commits evil acts himself.

Gil, you have said all that needs to be said.

No, I'm theh one who has.

Shut up.

Edit: And Tsunokiette, respond to the parts of my post regarding evolution.

Gil, you have said all that needs to be said.

No, I'm theh one who has.
[/quote]

You take too long and you like to drag out the arguments. Yes, it is impressive how you are right like, all of the time, but Gil just gets it over with quickly.

we need a poll.

Do you believe in god?

-Yes
-No

I want to see how many people are on who's side...

@Jesus Hitler - That's why it's called faith. And God didn't perform any evil acts, as I pointed out before. If you read the bible in context you realize they were righteous acts. Just because a judge sentences a man to death for murdering someone doesn't mean the judge is evil.

@Gilga - I do think with my own mind. God doesn't tell me what to think, or what to do. He is not a shield I use to protect me from reality. I've been through Hell (figure of speach) and back again many times. I know the realities of this world, I do not choose to ignore them either.

@Everybody - IF you would do this one thing for me. Tonight, have a conversation with God. You don't have to believe in Him. Just talk to empty air if that's what you think you're doing. If you don't think He's real, tell Him so. Ask Him to show Himself in your life.

EDIT : I think it's pretty obvious which side I'm on.

@Everybody - IF you would do this one thing for me. Tonight, have a conversation with God. You don't have to believe in Him. Just talk to empty air if that's what you think you're doing. If you don't think He's real, tell Him so. Ask Him to show Himself in your life.

That is downright foolish. Why would I bother wasting time talking to something that does not exist? If I do not think "he" is real, why would I "tell him so"?

@Everybody - IF you would do this one thing for me. Tonight, have a conversation with God. You don't have to believe in Him. Just talk to empty air if that's what you think you're doing. If you don't think He's real, tell Him so. Ask Him to show Himself in your life.

How silly. God only seems to prove his reality who want him to be real.

By the way - Respond to the parts of my post regarding evolution.

@Everybody - IF you would do this one thing for me. Tonight, have a conversation with God. You don't have to believe in Him. Just talk to empty air if that's what you think you're doing. If you don't think He's real, tell Him so. Ask Him to show Himself in your life.

How silly. God only seems to prove his reality who want him to be real.

By the way - Respond to the parts of my post regarding evolution.

I just did... I said that's why it's called FAITH. Also I explained why it can't happen naturally.

@Djangonator - I understand what you're saying, just humor me. Even though it may seem foolish, it'll take what, 30 seconds?

I just did... I said that's why it's called FAITH. Also I explained why it can't happen naturally.

Then your ideas about evolution are worthless because nothing about them is based in fact.

I just did... I said that's why it's called FAITH. Also I explained why it can't happen naturally.

Then your ideas about evolution are worthless because nothing about them is based in fact.

Hang on, what makes them worthless. The faith part was refering to your question about the Bible being trustworthy.

Even secular scientists have said that evolution is highly improbable. I explained why it can't be true in an earlier post.

 

Tsuno... Your a Programmer, not a philosopher.