God and Hell.

I can't post this in Intelligant debate, becaues of obvious reasons. Yet it is not spam, so here it is.

In another topic recently locked, I read a number of comments that were made. Saddened by what I read I decided to make this topic.

If Lucifer was banished to Hell, doesn't that mean that Hell was created already? And that God was evil enough to create it?

Not at all. Hell was not created until after Lucifer's coup failed. Hell was created for him and his demons. Not for us.

Jesus threatens us with Hell.

Where in the Bible does He threaten us with Hell? Give me a verse and I will look into it for you. Where does He say "IF YOU DON'T CHOOSE ME, YOU'RE GOING TO HELL!!". No where. What He does say, however, is "Mankind is born with sin, God my Father loves all, but sin His kingdom can not have. It is not the Will of God for all to perish, but rather to have everlasting life. Choose me and toss off your burdens, let me carry them as I carried the cross for you, then can you enter Heaven, for that is My Will."

I don't know if you notice, but that is God saying "Give me all of your troubles, I will bear the weight, give me all of your sin, I will make you pure as I have died for you on the cross.

God is evil. He authored many wars and genocides throughout the old testament.

Well... Yes and No.
You have to realize that the people who God ordered be destroyed were not nice people. If you read in context, you'll realize that there was a common theme among these people. They hated God, they hated God's people (Jews). They would stop at nothing to destroy God's people. They were dangerous. God had to do something or the blood line through which he would enter Earth and take the punishment for our sins would be destroyed.

Now, there were also many women and children killed as well.
Consider this.
IF God were to allow them to live, what would happen? When the child is old enough, the mother will tell the child of the hated race that destroyed their people, and of the God who ordered it. The child will become filled with hatred and... would vow to destroy God's chosen people. The same problem would resurface.

Now, let's say he killed the mothers, but let the children live.
Do I even have to go into this? They would most likely die an agonizing death all alone in the flipping desert.

Is God Evil?
It certainly seems so to those against Him, He is a dangerous adversary, He made everyone, so He know's everyone's weaknesses.
To those on His side? He is a kind and merciful God, willing to give up everything just so we could be with Him for eternity.

___________________________________________________________

I don't know about you, but that sounds a lot better than what people try to make God out to be.

I'm still sticking with Thor.

Both fake...

Don't make me get Thor.

I'm not going to say I don't care about that, because I do, but it's your decision and I'm not one to dis people's choices. (I've made some horrible ones in the past *shiver*)

I just don't like it when people dis My God, the one who I wholely believe in and worship. The One I pray till I'm literally weak to. The One whose power I feel everyday, and to conclude my point the One who I see work in people's lives everyday.

I can't stand it, it makes me angry and sad at the same time.

I only said that you would reply and say your main points to attack me so I would not have to read that entire post... 

I read it... now I have some Qs for you.

If god is good then why does he tell you to fear him?

I only said that you would reply and say your main points to attack me so I would not have to read that entire post... 

If what you just said was grammaticaly correct, I might have a clue what to say.

As for the points I made in the main post, I chose those points because they are the most common I encounter and if you mentioned them in the topic I apologize. It was not aimed at any one person.

EDIT : As a matter of fact, my second post was directed to Fu's first reply. I didn't get a chance to post it till after you guys posted again.

Ok here's the thing. When you die, your spirit is transported to somewhere. you walk and you meet God. He'll tell you if you go to Heaven or Hell depending on your deeds. In heaven, you can do anything that's not bad. Like paraside. In hell, you feel pain. Pain every second. chooseing to believe in God will increase your chances to go to heaven. Worshipping in another god will increase your chance to hell. It's your life. Your way to heaven or hell.

I made my speech about dying.

ok then If god is good then why does he tell you to fear him?

He'll tell you if you go to Heaven or Hell depending on your deeds

um... not true your deed have nothing to do with it, it is if you gave your heart to god...

why do I defend a religion that I don't believe in... maybe it's because If i join a religion this is the one I would join... no other... my FAV.

Actually I thought Tsuno had that aimed at me for some reason.

THOR IS AWESOME!

ok then If god is good then why does he tell you to fear him?

He'll tell you if you go to Heaven or Hell depending on your deeds

um... not true your deed have nothing to do with it, it is if you gave your heart to god...

why do I defend a religion that I don't believe in... maybe it's because If i join a religion this is the one I would join... no other... my FAV.

ok then If god is good then why does he tell you to fear him?

Main Entry: 1fear
Pronunciation: 'fir
Function: verb
Etymology: Middle English feren, from Old English f[AE]ran, from f[AE]r
transitive verb
1 archaic : FRIGHTEN
2 archaic : to feel fear in (oneself)
3 : to have a reverential awe of <fear God>
4 : to be afraid of : expect with alarm <fear the worst>
intransitive verb : to be afraid or apprehensive <feared for their lives>
- fear·er noun

yea if you believe in God. you're are a good person. (But still a little bad.) But doing things that God doesn't like (Drugs, Killing.) Then he'll send you to hell.

Just so you know, I hope to make this a debate and not a argument. That was a good point and you got me there but... I have more.

 

yea if you believe in God. you're are a good person. (But still a little bad.) But doing things that God doesn't like (Drugs, Killing.) Then he'll send you to hell.

It doesn't matter what you do as long as you ask god for forgiveness and truly mean it with your entire heart... If you let god sit on the throne to your heart he will lead you to heaven.

His will be done.

Just so you know, I hope to make this a debate and not a argument. That was a good point and you got me there but... I have more.

Me too. *waits*

Actually, if you think Yahweh is real it's completely illogical to think Thor isn't. If one god can exsist so can others. It's not your fault your god is anti-social and doesn't like any body else.

It says that if you search for him with all your heart he will tell you that he is real... but what if it is just your mind telling you that he is real... it says that he will tell you in a way that you will be sure of, but if you are waiting for a sign you could see a butter fly land in front of you and say "god has shown me he is real..." so how can I truly see if god is real?

Um... I'll back in a few, it my dinner time.

Yea thats what i forgot. If you forgive your sins, Stay true to his heart, and never believe in any other god, Then you'll go to heaven.

Or, if you kick total ass you go to Valhalla.

Or, if you kick total ass you go to Valhalla.

True.

Look around you. Do you think this came about by chance? For all we know God put us here; two people from opposite sides of the country, who never would have met otherwise are discussing a life changing subject. Have you never felt God tug at your heart?

It's foolish to say this came about by chance. Even if you don't believe in God, to say it came about by chance would be foolish. Mankind has tried as much as possible to turn away from the logical solution of a living God and turn to the illogical solution of evolution.

Now don't get me wrong, I'm not saying evolution is false, I'm saying creation through evolution is not possible. Things evolve everyday, but single cell organisms cannot form into multi cellular organisms. The simple cell cannot become a complex cell. DNA is made up of tiny signatures or codes. These codes are written in groups of 4 letters (amino acids). The chances of a single strand of code properly being formed is already 1/256 . But to form a living organism, you need more than one strand of code, you need 100's of thousands. The chance of that happening is beyond 1 * 10**231 (1 times ten to the 231st power). Way beyond. And to say this happened multiple times? Also the strands of DNA would most likely be destroyed. "Early earth" didn't have the correct conditions to sustain such a transition.

Even if it was possible, that does not answer the origin of life itself. Who put that stuff there? Martians? Okay, then who created the martians? Mankind has tried to dodge the question for centuries comming up with more and more (well though out I'll admit yet still -- ) foolish ideas and ignore the logical conclusion of a supernatural creation. One by a living God.

Someone living in an area not discovered by the masses can look around and say that there must be a God. Why is it that they can, and we can't.

Back to your original question, "How can I truely see if God is real?"

It's not a knowing. It's an understanding. You can "know" you flushed the toilet. You can "know" you did your homework. But you can still be wrong. But when you truely seek God, you WILL find Him. The understanding is there, He speaks to you "Here I am, I have been with you always."

It's like a knowledge you've had your entire life yet always overlooked.

Also, if it's not real, then how come 100's of thousands of people feel His presence every day? If He's not real, how can that many people fool themselves with the exact same illusion?

EDIT : I'll be back in a bit too, I've got to shower. Also I recommend the book - A Case for Faith. I'm reading it right now (actually, I lost it *sad face*, but am in the proccess of reading it). If nothing else, it's a good read to understand the question you asked me.

Have you never felt God tug at your heart?

No, but I have felt Odin's fury pump through my veins.

He seen too much Norse stuff.

Actually I was being serious.

A Case for Faith

I may read this