God and Hell.

I can't post this in Intelligant debate, becaues of obvious reasons. Yet it is not spam, so here it is.

In another topic recently locked, I read a number of comments that were made. Saddened by what I read I decided to make this topic.

If Lucifer was banished to Hell, doesn't that mean that Hell was created already? And that God was evil enough to create it?

Not at all. Hell was not created until after Lucifer's coup failed. Hell was created for him and his demons. Not for us.

Jesus threatens us with Hell.

Where in the Bible does He threaten us with Hell? Give me a verse and I will look into it for you. Where does He say "IF YOU DON'T CHOOSE ME, YOU'RE GOING TO HELL!!". No where. What He does say, however, is "Mankind is born with sin, God my Father loves all, but sin His kingdom can not have. It is not the Will of God for all to perish, but rather to have everlasting life. Choose me and toss off your burdens, let me carry them as I carried the cross for you, then can you enter Heaven, for that is My Will."

I don't know if you notice, but that is God saying "Give me all of your troubles, I will bear the weight, give me all of your sin, I will make you pure as I have died for you on the cross.

God is evil. He authored many wars and genocides throughout the old testament.

Well... Yes and No.
You have to realize that the people who God ordered be destroyed were not nice people. If you read in context, you'll realize that there was a common theme among these people. They hated God, they hated God's people (Jews). They would stop at nothing to destroy God's people. They were dangerous. God had to do something or the blood line through which he would enter Earth and take the punishment for our sins would be destroyed.

Now, there were also many women and children killed as well.
Consider this.
IF God were to allow them to live, what would happen? When the child is old enough, the mother will tell the child of the hated race that destroyed their people, and of the God who ordered it. The child will become filled with hatred and... would vow to destroy God's chosen people. The same problem would resurface.

Now, let's say he killed the mothers, but let the children live.
Do I even have to go into this? They would most likely die an agonizing death all alone in the flipping desert.

Is God Evil?
It certainly seems so to those against Him, He is a dangerous adversary, He made everyone, so He know's everyone's weaknesses.
To those on His side? He is a kind and merciful God, willing to give up everything just so we could be with Him for eternity.

___________________________________________________________

I don't know about you, but that sounds a lot better than what people try to make God out to be.

I'm still sticking with Thor.

Both fake...

Don't make me get Thor.

I'm not going to say I don't care about that, because I do, but it's your decision and I'm not one to dis people's choices. (I've made some horrible ones in the past *shiver*)

I just don't like it when people dis My God, the one who I wholely believe in and worship. The One I pray till I'm literally weak to. The One whose power I feel everyday, and to conclude my point the One who I see work in people's lives everyday.

I can't stand it, it makes me angry and sad at the same time.

I only said that you would reply and say your main points to attack me so I would not have to read that entire post... 

I read it... now I have some Qs for you.

If god is good then why does he tell you to fear him?

I only said that you would reply and say your main points to attack me so I would not have to read that entire post... 

If what you just said was grammaticaly correct, I might have a clue what to say.

As for the points I made in the main post, I chose those points because they are the most common I encounter and if you mentioned them in the topic I apologize. It was not aimed at any one person.

EDIT : As a matter of fact, my second post was directed to Fu's first reply. I didn't get a chance to post it till after you guys posted again.

Ok here's the thing. When you die, your spirit is transported to somewhere. you walk and you meet God. He'll tell you if you go to Heaven or Hell depending on your deeds. In heaven, you can do anything that's not bad. Like paraside. In hell, you feel pain. Pain every second. chooseing to believe in God will increase your chances to go to heaven. Worshipping in another god will increase your chance to hell. It's your life. Your way to heaven or hell.

I made my speech about dying.

ok then If god is good then why does he tell you to fear him?

He'll tell you if you go to Heaven or Hell depending on your deeds

um... not true your deed have nothing to do with it, it is if you gave your heart to god...

why do I defend a religion that I don't believe in... maybe it's because If i join a religion this is the one I would join... no other... my FAV.

Actually I thought Tsuno had that aimed at me for some reason.

THOR IS AWESOME!

ok then If god is good then why does he tell you to fear him?

He'll tell you if you go to Heaven or Hell depending on your deeds

um... not true your deed have nothing to do with it, it is if you gave your heart to god...

why do I defend a religion that I don't believe in... maybe it's because If i join a religion this is the one I would join... no other... my FAV.

ok then If god is good then why does he tell you to fear him?

Main Entry: 1fear
Pronunciation: 'fir
Function: verb
Etymology: Middle English feren, from Old English f[AE]ran, from f[AE]r
transitive verb
1 archaic : FRIGHTEN
2 archaic : to feel fear in (oneself)
3 : to have a reverential awe of <fear God>
4 : to be afraid of : expect with alarm <fear the worst>
intransitive verb : to be afraid or apprehensive <feared for their lives>
- fear·er noun

yea if you believe in God. you're are a good person. (But still a little bad.) But doing things that God doesn't like (Drugs, Killing.) Then he'll send you to hell.

Just so you know, I hope to make this a debate and not a argument. That was a good point and you got me there but... I have more.

 

yea if you believe in God. you're are a good person. (But still a little bad.) But doing things that God doesn't like (Drugs, Killing.) Then he'll send you to hell.

It doesn't matter what you do as long as you ask god for forgiveness and truly mean it with your entire heart... If you let god sit on the throne to your heart he will lead you to heaven.

His will be done.

Just so you know, I hope to make this a debate and not a argument. That was a good point and you got me there but... I have more.

Me too. *waits*

Actually, if you think Yahweh is real it's completely illogical to think Thor isn't. If one god can exsist so can others. It's not your fault your god is anti-social and doesn't like any body else.

It says that if you search for him with all your heart he will tell you that he is real... but what if it is just your mind telling you that he is real... it says that he will tell you in a way that you will be sure of, but if you are waiting for a sign you could see a butter fly land in front of you and say "god has shown me he is real..." so how can I truly see if god is real?

Um... I'll back in a few, it my dinner time.

Yea thats what i forgot. If you forgive your sins, Stay true to his heart, and never believe in any other god, Then you'll go to heaven.

Or, if you kick total ass you go to Valhalla.

Or, if you kick total ass you go to Valhalla.

True.

Look around you. Do you think this came about by chance? For all we know God put us here; two people from opposite sides of the country, who never would have met otherwise are discussing a life changing subject. Have you never felt God tug at your heart?

It's foolish to say this came about by chance. Even if you don't believe in God, to say it came about by chance would be foolish. Mankind has tried as much as possible to turn away from the logical solution of a living God and turn to the illogical solution of evolution.

Now don't get me wrong, I'm not saying evolution is false, I'm saying creation through evolution is not possible. Things evolve everyday, but single cell organisms cannot form into multi cellular organisms. The simple cell cannot become a complex cell. DNA is made up of tiny signatures or codes. These codes are written in groups of 4 letters (amino acids). The chances of a single strand of code properly being formed is already 1/256 . But to form a living organism, you need more than one strand of code, you need 100's of thousands. The chance of that happening is beyond 1 * 10**231 (1 times ten to the 231st power). Way beyond. And to say this happened multiple times? Also the strands of DNA would most likely be destroyed. "Early earth" didn't have the correct conditions to sustain such a transition.

Even if it was possible, that does not answer the origin of life itself. Who put that stuff there? Martians? Okay, then who created the martians? Mankind has tried to dodge the question for centuries comming up with more and more (well though out I'll admit yet still -- ) foolish ideas and ignore the logical conclusion of a supernatural creation. One by a living God.

Someone living in an area not discovered by the masses can look around and say that there must be a God. Why is it that they can, and we can't.

Back to your original question, "How can I truely see if God is real?"

It's not a knowing. It's an understanding. You can "know" you flushed the toilet. You can "know" you did your homework. But you can still be wrong. But when you truely seek God, you WILL find Him. The understanding is there, He speaks to you "Here I am, I have been with you always."

It's like a knowledge you've had your entire life yet always overlooked.

Also, if it's not real, then how come 100's of thousands of people feel His presence every day? If He's not real, how can that many people fool themselves with the exact same illusion?

EDIT : I'll be back in a bit too, I've got to shower. Also I recommend the book - A Case for Faith. I'm reading it right now (actually, I lost it *sad face*, but am in the proccess of reading it). If nothing else, it's a good read to understand the question you asked me.

Have you never felt God tug at your heart?

No, but I have felt Odin's fury pump through my veins.

He seen too much Norse stuff.

Actually I was being serious.

A Case for Faith

I may read this

Now don't get me wrong, I'm not saying evolution is false, I'm saying creation through evolution is not possible. Things evolve everyday, but single cell organisms cannot form into multi cellular organisms. The simple cell cannot become a complex cell. DNA is made up of tiny signatures or codes. These codes are written in groups of 4 letters (amino acids). The chances of a single strand of code properly being formed is already 1/256 . But to form a living organism, you need more than one strand of code, you need 100's of thousands. The chance of that happening is beyond 1 * 10**231 (1 times ten to the 231st power). Way beyond. And to say this happened multiple times? Also the strands of DNA would most likely be destroyed. "Early earth" didn't have the correct conditions to sustain such a transition.

So you can say it's possible for God to exist, who created everything, yet there's no way that creation through evolution is possible? Assuming God is real, then that would mean he could do anything except this? That's stupid. Just because it isn't likely doesn't mean it isn't possible. It also doesn't mean we understand it enough to say it is possible.

As if any of this matters anyway. Who cares? Why do you all keep making these religion topics when clearly we're going to have the same result every single time? No one is going to get through to one another. You should spend less time trying to convince people over the internet that one religion is better than another and maybe... go outside and do something.

Honestly, I've read large parts of the Bible, I'm fascinated by it. Almost obsessed you might say. By that and scientology, but that's a whole other story, but, you know, I'm obsessed and fascinated with all that shit.
As I said, I've read large parts of the Bible, and I will say, honestly, that the Bible truly is, one of the funniest books I've ever read. It's fucking FUNNY. I mean, right out of the gate it's funny. I mean the first six pages. I mean, that shit is the most D&D bullshit crazy shit. "And then, the all-powerful... thing, SWOOPED DOWN and sent a plague of frogs upon all the heathens. Let's give him more powers! Roll the die."
"And then he was dead for three days, and ROSE UP TO HEAVEN!" That's total D&D nonsense.
The Bible is so crazy. First of all, if you know the history of the Bible, and just its entire massive history, and how it was written in these dead languages and then translated and then re-translated into other languages and then re-translated by monarchs based on their whims and, you know, all this shit, and people interpret it in their own way, and you sit there, and you still after all that, realize that the Bible was written thousands of years ago when people were EVEN DUMBER than we are today. Think about that. Go outside, wait till the bars empty out, fucking go home, watch FOX TV, and realize that, "Wow, the Bible was written by people even dumber than all these motherfuckers."
That's the Bible you're reading, and has been read to you for generations. I mean, it's absurd to believe in that shit because, all right, first of all - forget that, let's just look at Genesis. Just as an example.
Rigt off the bat, I swear, the funniest six pages in literary history. God, this all-powerful God, decides he's gonna make Earth. It takes him six days, to make Earth. There's all kinds of other crazy shit going on. But it takes him six days, six calendar days, I assume it's a Gregorian Calendar. Six days to make the Earth, and then... he rests, on the seventh day because he's exhausted. "Whoo, man. Those rivers took a lot outta me." IT"S FUCKING GOD! God gets tired? God needs a nap? This isn't the God I was made to understand exists and rules all our lives. God gets tired after six days.
Then, he decides to make this HUGE planet. HUGE. Massive planet. It takes him six fucking days. It's huge. He makes the ice caps. He makes Ecuador. He makes New Jersey. He makes this huge planet. And then he decides, "You know what? I'm gonna put one dude in there. One guy." So he makes Adam... "Enjoy!", and leaves, to go make Venus, I guess.
So he makes Adam, and then it occurs to him later, when he checks back in on him: "Aw, he's lonely. Aw, shit, I forgot to make other people for him to hang out with. I thought he'd be able to communicate with the sparrow. But, I guess he's just sitting, and taking a shit, not knowing what to do. I didn't really have the foresight. Well, what the fuck do I know? I'm just God I know everything." So when Adam's sleeping he takes a rib out and makes Eve for him.
Then Adam and Eve have Cain and Abel. Well, first of all, there's the thing with the snake and the tree. We all know that story, I don't wanna - it's quite sad. It is our original fall from grace.
Then Cain slays Abel, his brother, and then Cain's punishment is that he's banished from Eden and he has to go to Nod, where God provides him with a wife. So, his punishment is that he doesn't have to hang out with his parents anymore, and there's somebody he can fuck whenever he wants. That's his punishment. And he didn't even lose a rib for it!
But the best part about the Bible is in Genesis, in like, page 2 through 6, when Cain gets banished, and they have to explain how they get from four people, they get to Noah's time, where the Bible kind of kicks in again, and there's like six pages of explaining four people to a million, without explaining, you know, evolution, or... incest or anything. Because there was a LOT of motherfuckin' going on there. A lot of motherfucking, sisterfucking, daughterfucking... tons of fucking... rampant incest. Tons of incest. They just explain how we get to a million people without explaining evolution which is so obviously a load of shit, haha. You know, come on! The scientists with their theories, and their facts! Pssh, you know? That's nonsense, everybody knows it was a talking snake in a tree. We all know that! That's how the Earth started! It wasn't some long, protracted evolutionary process it was a talking snake in a tree.
I tell you what, if you're actually that dumb - if you actually don't believe in evolution, if you really are that deluted, then I tell you what: As an experiment, give an elderly person and a chimpanzee a camera, and watch them both try to operate it. Same fucking thing. They'll both thy to figure it out, and it'll flash and the chimp will run around scared, and take a shit and throw it around. And the elderly person just takes a shit, and that's evolution, is that where we progressed to where the elderly people do not throw their poo around, and we're better off for it.
So, in Genesis there's this long list of people. But the best part is they all grow up to be 840 years old. 910 years old. 940 years old. And you're reading this going, "What? 940 years old? Oh my god!". Have you seen a 100-year old? What kind of fucking god is making people be 940 years old? If you're 100, you fall down, break your hip, and that's it. Wherever you land, that's where you going to be for the next eight hundred motherfucking years. You are nothing but a shit and piss factory my friend. You just sit there and hope a piece of fruit falls off a tree and lands near your face, so you have something to eat.

WIN [/thread]

Look around you. Do you think this came about by chance? For all we know God put us here; two people from opposite sides of the country, who never would have met otherwise are discussing a life changing subject. Have you never felt God tug at your heart?

It's foolish to say this came about by chance. Even if you don't believe in God, to say it came about by chance would be foolish. Mankind has tried as much as possible to turn away from the logical solution of a living God and turn to the illogical solution of evolution.

Now don't get me wrong, I'm not saying evolution is false, I'm saying creation through evolution is not possible. Things evolve everyday, but single cell organisms cannot form into multi cellular organisms. The simple cell cannot become a complex cell. DNA is made up of tiny signatures or codes. These codes are written in groups of 4 letters (amino acids). The chances of a single strand of code properly being formed is already 1/256 . But to form a living organism, you need more than one strand of code, you need 100's of thousands. The chance of that happening is beyond 1 * 10**231 (1 times ten to the 231st power). Way beyond. And to say this happened multiple times? Also the strands of DNA would most likely be destroyed. "Early earth" didn't have the correct conditions to sustain such a transition.

Even if it was possible, that does not answer the origin of life itself. Who put that stuff there? Martians? Okay, then who created the martians? Mankind has tried to dodge the question for centuries comming up with more and more (well though out I'll admit yet still -- ) foolish ideas and ignore the logical conclusion of a supernatural creation. One by a living God.

Someone living in an area not discovered by the masses can look around and say that there must be a God. Why is it that they can, and we can't.

Back to your original question, "How can I truely see if God is real?"

It's not a knowing. It's an understanding. You can "know" you flushed the toilet. You can "know" you did your homework. But you can still be wrong. But when you truely seek God, you WILL find Him. The understanding is there, He speaks to you "Here I am, I have been with you always."

It's like a knowledge you've had your entire life yet always overlooked.

Also, if it's not real, then how come 100's of thousands of people feel His presence every day? If He's not real, how can that many people fool themselves with the exact same illusion?

EDIT : I'll be back in a bit too, I've got to shower. Also I recommend the book - A Case for Faith. I'm reading it right now (actually, I lost it *sad face*, but am in the proccess of reading it). If nothing else, it's a good read to understand the question you asked me.

Lol, that post is so brainwashed. Sorry

It's so easy to reverse it even using your own terms. To make up some imaginary supernatural being that created us is foolish.

You feel god, know he's there. You think you do. You've thought it for so long, that eventually you can't fathom the idea of it being false. Basically: Religion : roll :

I fall in the group of people that basically just don't really give a damn how I got here. Why do I need to know? I'll live out my life and when I die, that will most likely be it. To be honest it doesn't really scare me. I'll simply, well, end.

[edit] Halo's quote, lol. It's so easy to ridicule you guys ;(

I believe in God 100%
Heaven and hell 95%.

But in hell they stick hot pokers in your ass !

I have some questions...

I god created the universe and everything init, who created god?

So many people claim that rock is the devils work?
then why is there christian rock bands?

How come when people are sick people pray and ask god for them to get better, and then the person dies and the people then go on to say that its what god wanted?
They go on acting like nothng happned but God ignores there prayers? WTF?

I dont mean to be disrespecting people. I mean Im the deputy head boy of a christian school so its not like Im being prejudice they are just questions that have always plauged me and it seems tsuno is answering godly questions so i thought i would ask.

God is eternal, he was there even before time. It's a paradox to say: "Who created God". And God isn't there to fullfill all your prayers.
Just for info, I pray every evening. I maybe ask for something less often than once a month and mostly actually get something I never would have expected.
Just the other day something really shit happened and I was really upset about all of this. Even that much that I maybe started to doubt all of this. Only two days later, after talking with a friend about a completely different matter, I realized how foolish it was. My faith is stronger than it ever was. I have gotten even more than I expected: I've got hope.

Don't confuse FAITH and LOVE with the "institution" Catholic Church these days.

Okay thanks for clearing that up...
One more thing... Is god a person coz we refer to him as he and him.

Actually God is not a he. He is not a she either, God is beyond these material sepearation (which actually proves: men and women are equal in a spiritual view). I know, it's hard to understand and I can't explain it either, nobody can.

The reason why God is called with he is because he is refered as the father and during the time (thousands of years B.C.) men were the dominating sex, so nobody could actually have accepted that God is a she. And even less that is is neither and both, because he is beyond that.

Also what sense would life have if all prayers would be answered? This would be Heaven then. (Actually it would turn everything into chaos, but let's not consider this fact now... (^_^'))

I have some questions...

I god created the universe and everything init, who created god?

No-one, God was here from the "starting"

I have some questions...

How come when people are sick people pray and ask god for them to get better, and then the person dies and the people then go on to say that its what god wanted?
They go on acting like nothng happned but God ignores there prayers? WTF?

Somethings are meant to happen. sAy someone comes to rob your house and you tell him plz dont rob my house, its not gonna happen.
But if you say "or i'll call the police" he'll atleast get a LITTLE afraid.
thats why they say God helps who helps themselves. Pray to God and also take medicines, do excercise/yoga lol...then you'll be better.

Actually God is not a he. He is not a she either, God is beyond these material sepearation (which actually proves: men and women are equal in a spiritual view). I know, it's hard to understand and I can't explain it either, nobody can.

The reason why God is called with he is because he is refered as the father and during the time (thousands of years B.C.) men were the dominating sex, so nobody could actually have accepted that God is a she. And even less that is is neither and both, because he is beyond that.

Also what sense would life have if all prayers would be answered? This would be Heaven then. (Actually it would turn everything into chaos, but let's not consider this fact now... ('))

1. Yes it is true, God is not a he or she. BUt as they show in cartoons and old stories @_@ . But it all comes up to say that God is one.
2. Totaly true. But there are Godesses..Behind every succesful man is a woman they say.
But you knows. FOr now let us asume that God is He and God is One.
3. Okay i said that, in a different manner, but your point is totally correct to.

You feel god, know he's there. You think you do. You've thought it for so long, that eventually you can't fathom the idea of it being false. Basically: Religion : roll :

You have no clue how wrong you are with this post. Do you think I was a christian from the start? No. I became a christian 2 years ago. For 13 years I was an atheist hating the idea of a God. Thinking it was just something people made up for explaining the unexplained.

I was not trying to fool myself when I became saved. My mind didn't play tricks on me. Nobody had to say anything to me. I was just around all my Christian friends. I began to feel extreem conviction deep within myself. How can one fool one's own self when they don't want to even think about it in the first place?

When I became saved a huge weight lifted off my shoulders.
That post was not full of brainwashed nonsense.
If you see it as that, then who do you really think has been brainwashed?

@HoTS - Wow, erm, thanks for insulting my innermost convictions. I care about you guys, that's why I do this. I never said God couldn't create through evolution, I said it was impossible for it to happen naturaly. Of course, I don't believe God created through evolution either.
The very first thing the Bible says God created was Light and Dark, which he sepearated into the moon and the sun.
The bible says it took him 7 days to create the earth. He had already created a method with which WE OURSELVES could keep track of time. He used this time method to show how long it took Him. (Sun Up, Sun Down, Day) Evolution takes proccess over millions of years. Why would God take millions of years to do something, then lie and say it only took Him 7 days. God is pure, He does not lie. He's righteous, if He lied He wouldn't be able to enter His own kingdom.

maybe it took 7 zillion years but to him it was 7 days...

Ok... new Qs.

Q- If god is all powerful then how did he get tired?
Q- Why does the god in the new testament and old seem different?

OLD= Kill you! Smite you! Kill your son! Ahhh!
NEW= I love you! You bad boy, time out!

Do you think I was a christian from the start?

I assumed that. I was brought up christian, and my thoughts were like yours, until I started to think intelligently for myself. Nearly all of the christians I know had it drilled into them from childhood. The ones who are converts are the ones who don't really follow it totally. I.e. they'll admit their religion, to to church, pray maybe, but heck no they're not going to drink, have sex before marriage, or have anything so terrible as caffeine.

When I became saved a huge weight lifted off my shoulders.

Because you think you now have an explanation for your existance?

That post was not full of brainwashed nonsense.
If you see it as that, then who do you really think has been brainwashed?

How would I be brainwashed? I hold no opinion or beleif of how I got here, and I have no idea and no desire to either find out or try to explain it.

I can't post this in Intelligant debate, becaues of obvious reasons. Yet it is not spam, so here it is.

You are a coward.

Jesus threatens us with Hell.

Where in the Bible does He threaten us with Hell? Give me a verse and I will look into it for you. Where does He say "IF YOU DON'T CHOOSE ME, YOU'RE GOING TO HELL!!". No where. What He does say, however, is "Mankind is born with sin, God my Father loves all, but sin His kingdom can not have. It is not the Will of God for all to perish, but rather to have everlasting life. Choose me and toss off your burdens, let me carry them as I carried the cross for you, then can you enter Heaven, for that is My Will."

I don't know if you notice, but that is God saying "Give me all of your troubles, I will bear the weight, give me all of your sin, I will make you pure as I have died for you on the cross.

Where does He say "IF YOU DON'T CHOOSE ME, YOU'RE GOING TO HELL!!". No where.

Choose me and toss off your burdens, let me carry them as I carried the cross for you, then can you enter Heaven, for that is My Will."

If you can only enter Heaven if you choose Jesus (or lived a righteous life in a place where Christianity does not exist, like the pre-Colombian Americas) then there is only one other alternative: Hell.

God is evil. He authored many wars and genocides throughout the old testament.

Well... Yes and No.
You have to realize that the people who God ordered be destroyed were not nice people. If you read in context, you'll realize that there was a common theme among these people. They hated God, they hated God's people (Jews). They would stop at nothing to destroy God's people. They were dangerous. God had to do something or the blood line through which he would enter Earth and take the punishment for our sins would be destroyed.

Now, there were also many women and children killed as well.
Consider this.
IF God were to allow them to live, what would happen? When the child is old enough, the mother will tell the child of the hated race that destroyed their people, and of the God who ordered it. The child will become filled with hatred and... would vow to destroy God's chosen people. The same problem would resurface.

Now, let's say he killed the mothers, but let the children live.
Do I even have to go into this? They would most likely die an agonizing death all alone in the flipping desert.

Is God Evil?
It certainly seems so to those against Him, He is a dangerous adversary, He made everyone, so He know's everyone's weaknesses.
To those on His side? He is a kind and merciful God, willing to give up everything just so we could be with Him for eternity.

Well he is kind to his followers, so I guess that makes everything all right.

@HoTS - Wow, erm, thanks for insulting my innermost convictions.

So? Just because you believe in something doesn't mean that it can't be scrutinized.

I never said God couldn't create through evolution, I said it was impossible for it to happen naturaly.

Why?

Of course, I don't believe God created through evolution either.

No, he just created mountains of evidence to mess with humanity.

The very first thing the Bible says God created was Light and Dark, which he sepearated into the moon and the sun.
The bible says it took him 7 days to create the earth. He had already created a method with which WE OURSELVES could keep track of time. He used this time method to show how long it took Him. (Sun Up, Sun Down, Day) Evolution takes proccess over millions of years. Why would God take millions of years to do something, then lie and say it only took Him 7 days. God is pure, He does not lie. He's righteous, if He lied He wouldn't be able to enter His own kingdom.

Your argument against evolution starts with the assumption that God created life when the theory works fine without him. You aren't pointing out any flaws - just saying that it isn't what God would do. For this argument to have any value you would have to prove that the Christian God is real that the Bible - specifically, your interpretation - is the literal word of God and is completely factual.

@Silverline - Understood. I was turning the brainwashed comment around, attempting to point out that neither of us are brainwashed.

@Jesus Hitler -
1st Comment - I'm not a coward, I just happen to know  from experience that topics like this are less likely to become flamed if they're not in Intelligant Debate.

2nd Comment - You're correct in saying the ony alternative is Hell. That does not mean He threatened us with it. It's like a parent telling the child, "You can continue to throw a temper tantrum and go to your room, or you can stop and we'll go get ice cream. I don't want to punish you, but I will if I have to because leaving you on the floor is not an option."

3rd Comment - Let me rephrase this. God is neither Good NOR Bad (for those are terms we came up with). God is, however, righteous. He will punish those who have done wrong and will reward those who have done right. He will destroy evil, and nurture good.

@BoE - The answer to the first question is simple. (If you're refering to the passage in Genesis regarding creationg; otherwise you'll have to inform me what you're talking about.) You don't have to be tired to rest. If you're working on a painting, you can rest and look it over, seeing if there's anything else you can do. I believe when it says that "On the seventh day God rested", it's merely saying that God sat back and admired His work.

As for your second question, I will have to look into it. I don't want to give you a quickly thought up answer, I want to give you a researched answer. Not that the other answer's I've given haven't been researched, I just haven't looked into this yet.

I can't help but read this shit and feel sick. People like Tsuno disgust me. How can anyone hold such conviction for a fantasy? So many people are obsessed with this intangible imaginary entity that they call their god. Try taking your head out of the clouds for a minute and look at the world with your own eyes. Think with you own mind. You speak of god lifting your burdens, but I say god IS the burden. Everywhere you go you take him with you. He tells you what to do or what to think. Why would you do this?  How could anyone prefer the word of god to independence? Are you too scared, too incompetent to face the world youself? Do you need this shield called god to blind you? I don't think I'll ever understand, but it disgusts me either way.

I can't help but read this shit and feel sick. People like Tsuno disgust me. How can anyone hold such conviction for a fantasy? So many people are obsessed with this intangible imaginary entity that they call their god. Try taking your head out of the clouds for a minute and look at the world with your own eyes. Think with you own mind. You speak of god lifting your burdens, but I say god IS the burden. Everywhere you go you take him with you. He tells you what to do or what to think. Why would you do this?  How could anyone prefer the word of god to independence? Are you too scared, too incompetent to face the world youself? Do you need this shield called god to blind you? I don't think I'll ever understand, but it disgusts me either way.

Gil, you have said all that needs to be said.

@Jesus Hitler -
1st Comment - I'm not a coward, I just happen to know  from experience that topics like this are less likely to become flamed if they're not in Intelligant Debate.

But the same people who post in intelligent debate post here as well.

2nd Comment - You're correct in saying the ony alternative is Hell. That does not mean He threatened us with it. It's like a parent telling the child, "You can continue to throw a temper tantrum and go to your room, or you can stop and we'll go get ice cream. I don't want to punish you, but I will if I have to because leaving you on the floor is not an option."

AS if eternal punishment was a real alternative that anyone would want.

3rd Comment - Let me rephrase this. God is neither Good NOR Bad (for those are terms we came up with). God is, however, righteous. He will punish those who have done wrong and will reward those who have done right. He will destroy evil, and nurture good.

ANd yet he commits evil acts himself.

Gil, you have said all that needs to be said.

No, I'm theh one who has.

Shut up.

Edit: And Tsunokiette, respond to the parts of my post regarding evolution.

Gil, you have said all that needs to be said.

No, I'm theh one who has.
[/quote]

You take too long and you like to drag out the arguments. Yes, it is impressive how you are right like, all of the time, but Gil just gets it over with quickly.

we need a poll.

Do you believe in god?

-Yes
-No

I want to see how many people are on who's side...

@Jesus Hitler - That's why it's called faith. And God didn't perform any evil acts, as I pointed out before. If you read the bible in context you realize they were righteous acts. Just because a judge sentences a man to death for murdering someone doesn't mean the judge is evil.

@Gilga - I do think with my own mind. God doesn't tell me what to think, or what to do. He is not a shield I use to protect me from reality. I've been through Hell (figure of speach) and back again many times. I know the realities of this world, I do not choose to ignore them either.

@Everybody - IF you would do this one thing for me. Tonight, have a conversation with God. You don't have to believe in Him. Just talk to empty air if that's what you think you're doing. If you don't think He's real, tell Him so. Ask Him to show Himself in your life.

EDIT : I think it's pretty obvious which side I'm on.

@Everybody - IF you would do this one thing for me. Tonight, have a conversation with God. You don't have to believe in Him. Just talk to empty air if that's what you think you're doing. If you don't think He's real, tell Him so. Ask Him to show Himself in your life.

That is downright foolish. Why would I bother wasting time talking to something that does not exist? If I do not think "he" is real, why would I "tell him so"?

@Everybody - IF you would do this one thing for me. Tonight, have a conversation with God. You don't have to believe in Him. Just talk to empty air if that's what you think you're doing. If you don't think He's real, tell Him so. Ask Him to show Himself in your life.

How silly. God only seems to prove his reality who want him to be real.

By the way - Respond to the parts of my post regarding evolution.

@Everybody - IF you would do this one thing for me. Tonight, have a conversation with God. You don't have to believe in Him. Just talk to empty air if that's what you think you're doing. If you don't think He's real, tell Him so. Ask Him to show Himself in your life.

How silly. God only seems to prove his reality who want him to be real.

By the way - Respond to the parts of my post regarding evolution.

I just did... I said that's why it's called FAITH. Also I explained why it can't happen naturally.

@Djangonator - I understand what you're saying, just humor me. Even though it may seem foolish, it'll take what, 30 seconds?

I just did... I said that's why it's called FAITH. Also I explained why it can't happen naturally.

Then your ideas about evolution are worthless because nothing about them is based in fact.

I just did... I said that's why it's called FAITH. Also I explained why it can't happen naturally.

Then your ideas about evolution are worthless because nothing about them is based in fact.

Hang on, what makes them worthless. The faith part was refering to your question about the Bible being trustworthy.

Even secular scientists have said that evolution is highly improbable. I explained why it can't be true in an earlier post.

 

Tsuno... Your a Programmer, not a philosopher.

They say logic belongs to man, but let them prove it if they can.

EDIT : Also, just because you don't have proof of something doesn't mean it doesn't exist. I can go to a remote island and tell the people the dollar exists. They won't believe me just because I didn't bring one with me, but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

Nicely dodged. Also, yeah, this does kind of belong in intelligent debate, and so far the debating has been (to some extent) intelligent.

I'll keep a close eye on it, and I'm sure gilga and halo will.

Hang on, what makes them worthless.

Because they aren't based in fact. Prove anything you've said about evolution.

The faith part was refering to your question about the Bible being trustworthy.

Then don't expect us to side with you, because "just knowing" dosen't help anyone. If you said "I just know it!" in a class you would be laughed out of the room.

Even secular scientists have said that evolution is highly improbable. I explained why it can't be true in an earlier post.

No you didn't, and no they haven't.

http://www.thetrumpet.com/index.php?page=article&id=590

http://www.carm.org/evolution/evodds.htm

http://bioinfo.med.utoronto.ca/Evolution_by_Accident/Evolution_by_Accident.html

These are just 3 I found in 30 seconds of searching Yahoo!.

:/

EDIT : Looking for better examples. (First two are Christian, second is for evolution *i think*. It's hard to tell lol)

EDIT 2 : I'm too tired to look them up right now. The first two (even though Christian which will most likely make them worthless in your eyes :/ ) explain what I attempted to say.

I think this should me moved immediately.

For these I will just link you to the appropriate Talkorigins page.

http://www.thetrumpet.com/index.php?page=article&id=590

http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/CB/CB101.html
http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/CB/CB040.html

http://www.carm.org/evolution/evodds.htm

http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/CB/CB101.html

http://bioinfo.med.utoronto.ca/Evolution_by_Accident/Evolution_by_Accident.html

I think you need to look at that one a little closer.

You have to consider the time in which the Bible was written. What do you think people would do to a person who would have propagated evolution, bacteria, atoms, etc. They would have think of him to be crazy. The Bible is written in a metaphorical language so even the most simple (and maybe most stupid...) human can understand. In the Bible it's not important how complex the process of evolution was or how the universe was exactly created. The only thing that important is, is that God created it. A good example is the story of Banishing from Eden: adam means "men" and eva means "mothers" (I think...) on hebreic. The entire Old Testament is metaphoric.
The Bible doesn't contradict the evolution, it just doesn't explain it either.

@Nightwolf: It's always easier to imagine God to actually have one sex, because of the reason I have just written above:

metaphorical language so even the most simple (and maybe most stupid...) human can understand

I can't help but read this shit and feel sick. People like Tsuno disgust me. How can anyone hold such conviction for a fantasy? So many people are obsessed with this intangible imaginary entity that they call their god. Try taking your head out of the clouds for a minute and look at the world with your own eyes. Think with you own mind. You speak of god lifting your burdens, but I say god IS the burden. Everywhere you go you take him with you. He tells you what to do or what to think. Why would you do this?  How could anyone prefer the word of god to independence? Are you too scared, too incompetent to face the world youself? Do you need this shield called god to blind you? I don't think I'll ever understand, but it disgusts me either way.

Maybe you will disgust me to, along with one of our best scripters. Its not fantasy its simple truth. God exist. Our head is not imagining things in the clouds, we know that this has happened. God Does not lift our burderns, he helps us fight them. If we do bad we get bad yet God tries to reduce the bad we get. God IS NOT burden, he is support. WE are not scared to fight all as God helps who helps themselves. God is not a sheild, or we;d never get anything bad, He is a support to help us. I dont think youd ever understand this theory that God is better than our best friend.

YEs BLIZZARD I AGREE WITH YOU BUT ID USe genDER.


and..
to prove it( that God Exists), all of you mustve heard about the Ramayan(a)( for you ppl). In It there is a part where they write Gods name on a heavy rock which floats on water.
 Famous american scientists have researched that one the bottom on the sea rocks are found with the same God's name. They tested them and they floated.


Beat that.

And im talking bout bolders, fully checked, big heave bolders.

Nightwolf: Cite your sources. If the rocks float, why were they at the bottom of the sea?

I agree with what Blizzard said. The whole thing is written in metaphor. The problem is when people mindlessly believe it and take it literally- then you get all those crazy fundies.

The problem is when people mindlessly believe it and take it literally- then you get all those crazy fundies.

And these "religions" are called sects. Sects usually take a part of the Bible and just interprete it how they like it. It's blasphemy...

@Gilga: God is not a burden just like Nightwolf said. I our eyes, God is hope. I understand if you can't believe in God for some reason, but you have to admit there HAS TO be something that created the universe. I might have killed itself, it might not, it might have done who knows what, but there has to be an origin. Christianity simply calls this reason "God" and believes, it is not random, but has a consciousness. I can't remember who once said: "If God didn't exist, I would have been a good idea to make him up." and he might be right. But the point is that there is nothing bad about believing in God.
It's incredible how Jesus' words were universal. You can take any time, any situation, any possible possiblity and if you listen to what he said, you will realize "Yes... that actually is right." For example: (Don't worry, I'm not gonna recite the Bible here, I even never read it...) He put the 10 commandments into just two. Here is the shortest version:
1. Love God above all with all your heart, with all your soul
2. Love your next as you love yourself
(it might be wrong written, because it's directly translated from Croatian, but you should get the point)
They point of these is order. Creating order where humans fail. Even if God is just a lie, he has given hope to the world.

Nightwolf: Cite your sources. If the rocks float, why were they at the bottom of the sea?

YOu know that was like in the 1st century, and BTW lets say if you're living right now why will u die after some years?

Nightwolf, it's still possible to cite just do a Wikipedia search or a Yahoo search or a Dogpile one. Don't bother with google unless you want porn instead.

EDIT : Looking for better examples. (First two are Christian, second is for evolution *i think*. It's hard to tell lol)

Not when there are ads for The Blind Watchmaker on the side.

EDIT 2 : I'm too tired to look them up right now. The first two (even though Christian which will most likely make them worthless in your eyes :/ ) explain what I attempted to say.

And the links I provided refute them. Explore the TalkOrigins site a bit.

EDIT: what makes them worthless is that they are wrong.

You have to consider the time in which the Bible was written. What do you th
ink people would do to a person who would have propagated evolution, bacteria, atoms, etc.

There was a theory of atoms that existed at that time. I'm sure I could find Greek thinkers who spoke of something similar to evolution and bacteria.

The Bible is written in a metaphorical language so even the most simple (and maybe most stupid...) human can understand.

how many people believe that? And what was the metaphor behind, say, Noah's Ark?

In the Bible it's not important how complex the process of evolution was or how the universe was exactly created. The only thing that important is, is that God created it.

Not according to millions upon millions of people.

The Bible doesn't contradict the evolution, it just doesn't explain it either.

The Bible says that fruit bearing plants were created before fish. If this is a metaphor, it is an inaccurate one.

to prove it( that God Exists), all of you mustve heard about the Ramayan(a)( for you ppl). In It there is a part where they write Gods name on a heavy rock which floats on water.
 Famous american scientists have researched that one the bottom on the sea rocks are found with the same God's name. They tested them and they floated.


Beat that.

And im talking bout bolders, fully checked, big heave bolders.

1) Prove it.
2) If it is some sort of porous volcanic rock then your story is worthless.
3) Write God's name on a rock and put it in your bathtub.

YOu know that was like in the 1st century,

I didn't know there were Americans in the 1st century.

and BTW lets say if you're living right now why will u die after some years?

Wow, wait, are you serious?

And these "religions" are called sects. Sects usually take a part of the Bible and just interprete it how they like it. It's blasphemy...

Yeah, that's not what you're doing at all!

I understand if you can't believe in God for some reason, but you have to admit there HAS TO be something that created the universe.

Why?

Christianity simply calls this reason "God" and believes, it is not random, but has a consciousness.

There is no proof of this consciousness existing except in te minds of people who "just know".

But the point is that there is nothing bad about believing in God.

Believing in something that isn't real is harmful.

It's incredible how Jesus' words were universal. You can take any time, any situation, any possible possiblity and if you listen to what he said, you will realize "Yes... that actually is right."

11 So he said to them, "Whoever  divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery against her. 12 And if a woman divorces her husband and marries another, she commits adultery."

Straight form my Gideon Bible.

Even if God is just a lie, he has given hope to the world.

But it is a false hope.

By the way, here's another favorite of mine:

And he said to them, "Assuredly, I say to you yhat there are some standing here who will not taste death till they see the kingdom of God present with power.

And this one makes me laugh every time:

63 now the men who held Jesus mocked Him and beat Him. 64 And having blindfolded Him, they struck Him on the face and asked Him, saying: "Prophesy! Who is the one who struck You?"

(all quotes are by JH, except wiki's !_! )

There was a theory of atoms that existed at that time. I'm sure I could find Greek thinkers who spoke of something similar to evolution and bacteria.

In the late fifth century BC...

The Bible was started to be written 1000 B.C. Also The hebrew folk didn't have any contact even quite some time after the late 5th century B.C.. God is not science. People wanted to know how everything was created, so the invented science. SCIENCE is the thing that is supposed to explain the Genesis, not God. As I already said in the other topic, if God would give us everything we want, then what sense would life have?!
Also I said so even the most stupid human could understand it. Find one person with an IQ of 50 or lower and explain him what an atom is. Now explain him tell him there is a God who created everything. What do you think how he will react?

how many people believe that? And what was the metaphor behind, say, Noah's Ark?

I don't know what Metophor is behind Noah's Ark, how could I? Didn't I say, I haven't read the Bible?!

The Bible says that fruit bearing plants were created before fish. If this is a metaphor, it is an inaccurate one.

[sarcasm]Oh, in the Bible is exactly written how plants slowly turned into fish? I didn't know that.[/sarcasm] If you didn't know, fish also breathe. Plants were first on earth, they created O₂ out of C0₂, the water absorbed some of it due to diffusion. AFTER these events, fish had something to breathe and could start to evolve.

Yeah, that's not what you're doing at all!

And what exactly have I said different than just the entire Christianity?

Why?

You've already had Physic classes? If yes, you should be able to recall this here. I mean this part:

Energy is a conserved quantity, meaning that it cannot be created or destroyed, but only converted from one form into another. Thus, the total energy of the universe always remains constant.

So if it can't be created or destroyed, there has to be an origin as the universe wasn't existant for eternity, it is about 13.7 billion years old. Again, check wiki if you don't believe me.

Believing in something that isn't real is harmful.

Prove that he doesn't exist then.

It's incredible how Jesus' words were universal. You can take any time, any situation, any possible possiblity and if you listen to what he said, you will realize "Yes... that actually is right."

Erm, you have quoted that part, but there's nothing below it... >.<

But it is a false hope.

Again, I tell you prove that it's false.

I have a Q.

Why does the bible never talk about dinosaurs? So if you say god made the world did he put the massive bones of dinosaurs in the ground to play a trick on us?

So did it happen like this?

-Dinosaurs born
-they die
-god makes Adam and Eeve 

I have a Q.

Why does the bible never talk about dinosaurs? So if you say god made the world did he put the massive bones of dinosaurs in the ground to play a trick on us?

So did it happen like this?

-Dinosaurs born
-they die
-god makes Adam and Eeve 

First, almost every religion will tell you the story of Adam and Eve aren't really true, like most of the Old Testament, and are just ways to help people understand. There are some religions, though, that think this was a true story, and that the Garden of Eden is actually Heaven (or even sometimes Purgatory), and after they were cast out, they were sent to Earth. =\

Secondly, as far as Catholocism and other Christian religions go, no... they never explain dinosaurs let alone mention them. Convenient, eh? Most likely, it was because when the Bible was written, the existance of dinosaurs was unknown, yet today these religions don't give any theory about how it happened, except that it happened.

EDIT: This is fairly typical though. Look in the Bible, and you'll find many things that aren't explained today, or are just ingored. (i.e. using the bathroom is a sin, yet today it most certainly isn't considered so. The common rebuttal to this is the quote from the Bible [I'm not sure where] that "Anything held true on Earth will be held true in Heaven", or something to that effect. Meaning, if the church deems something is ok, then that will be how you are judged when you die.) So, it's basically their failsafe against being wrong at any point in time.

Nightwolf: Cite your sources. If the rocks float, why were they at the bottom of the sea?

YOu know that was like in the 1st century, and BTW lets say if you're living right now why will u die after some years?

So...because it was the first century...the density of the rock was affected so that somehow they were able to float?

Eventually, we all die just because our bodies are worn out. Our hearts get weak and stop pumping blood. Or we get sick and our system shuts down. Or we get killed by an outside source in the name of religion

Nightwolf, I'd say that I'm not alone here in not knowing what in the world your point is, or even what half of your post is supposed to mean. 

I think he was trying to imply that God is why we die.

the floating rock could have been pummus. the remains of volcano rock... tht floats.

He said it was a "heavy" rock, so I'm thinking he wasn't talking about volcanic rock :/

If god is all perfect non-evil then how did he create evil.

Lol blizzard "prove he doesn't exist then"

I'm going to jail soon, cause, guilty until proven innocent.

I prove something does not exist, if it really does sort of, well, not exist? That fact is the proof itelf ?_?

Or, to put it another way, I could say there's a flying spaghetti monster. You can't prove that it DOESN'T exist, so does that mean it exists?

that was from a south park episode!

Actually, it was only IN a South Park episode. You need to do a search on the flying spaghetti monster, or FSM

Great episode!

I will crack open your skull on my tummy, and eat your brains!

"The loch ness monster exists"
"no it doesn't"
"prove it doesn't exist?"
"can't, sry"
"owned"

"The loch ness monster exists"
"no it doesn't"
"prove it doesn't exist?"
"can't, sry"
"owned"

"The Loch Ness monster exists."
"Prove it."
"Can't, sorry."
"Owned."

EDIT: This is a moot argument :/

If god is all perfect non-evil then how did he create evil.

He didn't. God gave the world "free will". Free will is what created evil, not God.

Lol blizzard "prove he doesn't exist then"

I'm going to jail soon, cause, guilty until proven innocent.

And how do you know he doesn't? Did you go out into the universe looked for God and haven't found him? Just because you can't percept electromagnetic waves, doesn't mean they don't exist. Prove that time exists. You can't prove it, yet it exists.

Or, to put it another way, I could say there's a flying spaghetti monster. You can't prove that it DOESN'T exist, so does that mean it exists?

OMG, I lawl'd so much! xD
No, I never said God does exist, I said there is no proof that he doesn't just like there is no proof that he does. You can't say something doesn't exist if it is beyond our understanding and possibilities to prove. Same works with Nessy there. We are not really in the position to prove its existence.
BTW, a flying spaghetti monster is irrational, it can't exist IN THIS UNIVERSE, because of the laws of physics we have here. That's already proof that it doesn't exist IN THIS UNIVERSE.

I don't think Nessy exists. Why? Do you really think it has survived for 65 million years? Meh. Although I can be wrong.

EDIT: All in all if you can't prove it doesn't exist, it's not wrong to believe in it. It's not your problem, so you don't have to go on other people's nerves because of it. You can argue over belief just like you can argue over opinions: They are all different, but not neccesary wrong.

@JH: Oh, is it harmful if I believe Nessy exists and live on my life even though it doesn't?

Nightwolf, it's still possible to cite just do a Wikipedia search or a Yahoo search or a Dogpile one. Don't bother with google unless you want porn instead.

You cant google God.

EDIT: This is a moot argument :/

You know wat moot is in Hindi?

Prove that time exists. You can't prove it, yet it exists.

No it doesn't.

EDIT:
Prove it and kill us all! :O

Prove that time exists. You can't prove it, yet it exists.

No it doesn't.

Heart Breaker.

<|3

www.bible.com

Tsunokiette - I have nothing against you in fact I think your one of the soundest members on here...

There are a few reasons I don't follow my Christian Faith (I was born into it, but have rejected it)... Reasons:-

1. Why the heck do people go to Church on a Sunday ?, its Gods Day of rest and all his followers do is sing at him and ask him for favors for others ALL DAY !!!... God (if he exists) is more likely to send those buggers to hell rather than the none followers... I mean imagine when they die, there gunna be bugging the arse off God "can have your Autograph"... "Can I be your best mate"... Blah Blah Blah...

2. Why do Christians wear the cross around their necks, that’s what killed their beloved Jesus...? - And if you say, no that’s what freed him and he became the holy ghost... Well Fantastic, but it stopped him using his healing hands and leading by example... I think the fish symbol is a better one as it symbolizes his miracles and is helping nature

3. Why is there so many different versions of the Bible?... Its been played about with to suite the church and peoples effic's so many times, I just can't swallow it...

But... I do think Jesus was a real person, and yeah he may have thought he was the son of God... now I can give you a few reasons why he thought this:-

1. He had a mental problem like Scitsophrenea... he heard voices... and the power of positive thought from those that followed him helped make people feel better... combined mental projection has not been investigated enough, who knows if Jesus and his deciplines all concentrated their thoughts at one thing may be it had X-men like effects...

2. He had some decpiles that had over imaginative minds... no doubt through sleep deprivation, it’s not like the had spring mattress and they had been on the run from Herod for some time...

3. May be Jesus was a Drug dealer, and his Disciples followed him for free hand outs and most of the time tripping their nuts off... and seeing Jesus do wonder-ful things... like feeding the 5,000 with fish and bread... may be he got them to smoke so weed 1st, and they all had the munchies and ate dirt and just so happened to be Hallucinating Jesus handing them Bread when all it was, was Mud... Could explain why Jesus Washed feet, may be he was collecting Fungal Spores to grind up into Acid like tablets...

All 3 of those reasons are just as believable to ME as A Virgin gave birth to the Son of God...

What I think God is... I think he is not a he... but an it... I doubt we can comprehend exactly what God is... But I know if God had any thing to do with what was written in the bible he would have left out many of the Kids stories like the burning bush and the technicoloured dream coat... oh and the worst has got to be Noah and that poxy Arc... What a load of Tosh...

Hell... I don't think there is a Hell... I mean define right from wrong...?

Who's to say what’s right and wrong... We are mammals just like Chimps but they have no rules, they kill each other and think nothing of it... and I bet we would too if it wasn't forced upon us in our up bringing... Take for example, have a child separated at birth and put into intense army training, it will kill without remorse...

I have died once... I saw nothing, I was dead for about 2mins (Approx, it was over 2mins) - me laying on the side of the pool being resuscitated... Have no idea how long I was at the bottom of the pool for... I saw no tunnel of light, or a God of any sort...(I did see a Neon like skipping rope spinning with what looked like a Sweet wrapper in the middle, bright pink neon) I have done many a thing evolving the Occult and not once seen or heard God...

I do however think there are beings walking by us, not of this dimension, I think they have no time barrier... just like Bacteria can't see us, we cant see them... May be once we die and our Energy is released we may be able to see them (Brain Death)...

I don't want to make out I am knocking your religion as I am all for it, if it helps you get through life and keep you on the straight and narrow then fine...

But I think Religion causes too many wars and disputes... Oh and I hate door knocking Jesus lickers... they tick me off...

One of my X-girlfriends was born with Sistic-fibrosis - She died at the age of 22, I used to date her from age 9 till about 15, she was one of my best mates until she died... I miss her and hope what ever awaits in the after life is better than the life she had here, her last few years she felt pain, more so than any she would get in any Hell (if there was one)... If there was a God why would he test some one by giving them such a cruel fait...

I have a Q.

Why does the bible never talk about dinosaurs? So if you say god made the world did he put the massive bones of dinosaurs in the ground to play a trick on us?

So did it happen like this?

-Dinosaurs born
-they die
-god makes Adam and Eeve 

I'm not sure what everyone is saying when they say the Bible doesn't mention dinosaurs. It does.

Behemoth (brachiosaurus)
Job 40:15-24

Leviathan (kronosaurus)
Job chapter 41
Psalm 104:25,26
Isaiah 27:1
bombardier beetle. This beetle is a native of Central America, and has a nozzle in its hind end that acts like a little flame thrower. It sprays a high-temperature jet of gas (fueled by hydroquinones and hydrogen peroxide with oxidative enzymes) for protection

Forgot to answer your question, sorry bought that lol.

God made world (including dinosaurs). God made man. Man kicked out of Eden. God tells Noah to build ark to save his family. Great Flood wipes out all evil men and many animals. (including dinosaurs). Also carves out Grand Canyon. The Flood also explains how the bones got where they are. The large ammounts of sedimentation caused by the flood would pour over the dead bodies, encrusting them and giving the perfect enviroment for fossils in 7 days that would usually take 100's of years.

EDIT : I didn't have time to answer the other posts, now I do.

@LoS - I thank you.
Why do people go to church on Sunday? Because it's easier for them, it's on the weekend and they've already had Saturday to rest. Although technically we should be in prayer constantly. Not actually praying, but realizing God's presence. I myself don't go to church. I don't see a point, worshiping with other believers yeah, but half the time there isn't even 10 real believers. Just people who "got saved" when they walked down the alter at age 6 and go to church all the time; just to leave and live like the rest of the world.
It's spitting on God's face is what it is. I can't help but notice it, it's a part of my nature.

Why do Christians wear the cross around their necks? It's a symbol of what He did for us. It reminds us that He gave His life for us. It's not supposed to be a happy thing, more of a solemn thing. But it is also to remind us that He rose from the dead, defeating death and allowing us to have eternal life.

Why is there so many different versions of the Bible? Simply because not everybody's brains work the same. You can say something to one person, and another will not understand it. People learn different ways. The different versions of the Bible are geared towards different people. For example, I have before me an Extreem Teen Bible(Line of Bibles) New Century Version. The New Century Version is geared for people of our century.

As for your girlfriend. I can't help but console you on that. I'm sorry to hear that happened to you, it is a cruel fate. But it's not God's fault. Diseases and such showed up after the fall of man. Where we turned from God and He cursed the world. As much as it seems negative, it's more the fault of everyone around her. God gave the Great Commission for a reason, so stuff like this wouldn't happen. I myself am having troubles, most of my family is athiest, or does the "I'm a good person" approach. (Refering to earlier post on church members)

@Silverline - We're not guilty until proven innocent. We're born with the nature to sin, that's what the Bible means when it says we are born with sin. We're innocent until we ARE guilty. Once we've sinned, no trial needs to be conducted. God saw it, we can try to run but we're denying the innevitable.

@Flying Spaghetti Monster - I doubt you exist, but kudos on hiding if you do. I have no physical evidence either way, so I can't say you do or don't exist. *point*

@Anyone I missed - Please restate your points. There's no way I'm going to be able to sort through all this lol.

EDIT 2:

have some questions...

I god created the universe and everything init, who created god?

So many people claim that rock is the devils work?
then why is there christian rock bands?

How come when people are sick people pray and ask god for them to get better, and then the person dies and the people then go on to say that its what god wanted?
They go on acting like nothng happned but God ignores there prayers? WTF?

I dont mean to be disrespecting people. I mean Im the deputy head boy of a christian school so its not like Im being prejudice they are just questions that have always plauged me and it seems tsuno is answering godly questions so i thought i would ask

So many people claim rock to be the Devil's work because they're being projudice. They're refering to music that uses coarse language and sexual references. As well as songs that actually worship the Devil. (There's some out there) But it's stupid to generalize.

Sick people dying? We look at short term. God looks at long term. What God does we may not understand, but we know that it is for the best, and it may not be in the immediate future, maybe not even our lifetimes.

I also remember a post on poop. Erm, roflz. Sorry, that was funny. The Bible doesn't say going to the bathroom is filthy or sinful. It's removing waste from your body. God gave you that function. If someone says it's sinful, once again, they're being stupid/and or taking liberties.

Leviathan is not supposed to be a dinosaur, it is supposed to be a demon. Christian myth states him as being the one to seduce Adam and Eve. In demonology, he is also considered to be "Grand Admiral", whatever that means.

Likewise, the Behemoth would be a demon, otherwise just a close relative to the ox.

Hence the argument will now involve demonology, as I'm sure some of you will say that doesn't make it true in the world of Christianity. That would be false, demonology, angelology, and Christianity all go hand in hand.

The bible refers to them as creatures. Not demons. It doesn't refer to them in a negative way, in actuality it refers to them in a neutral way.

Besides, if they were demons, wouldn't they be, a little more, angelic looking?

Literally, Angels and Demons are the same thing, they serve different masters however.

The Christian interpretation of Leviathan is often considered to be a demon or natural monster associated with Satan or the Devil, and held by some to be the same monster as Rahab (Isaiah 51:9).

Some biblical scholars considered Leviathan to represent the pre-existent forces of chaos. In Psalm 74:13-14 it says "it was You who drove back the sea with Your might, who smashed the heads of the monsters in the waters; it was You who crushed the heads of Leviathan, who left him as food for the creatures of the wilderness. (JPS edition)" God drove back the waters of the Earth (Genesis 1:2 "And the earth was formless and void, and darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was moving over the surface of the waters." ([NAS])
Picture of Leviathan often found in grimoires, by an unknown artist.
Enlarge
Picture of Leviathan often found in grimoires, by an unknown artist.

Some interpreters suggest that Leviathan is a symbol of mankind in opposition to God, claiming that it and beasts mentioned in the books of Daniel and Revelation should be interpreted as metaphors. The usage of Leviathan in the Old Testament books (Isaiah 27:1) would seem to be a reference to a Semitic mythological beast mentioned in Ugaritic literature (of Ugarit, a city-state in North Syria). According to Canaanite myth, the Leviathan was an enemy of order in Creation and was slain by the Canaanite god Baal. The word Leviathan to the ancient Jews became synonymous with that which warred against God's kingdom. This especially included nations warring against Israel such as Assyria and Egypt. (The Bible Knowledge Commentary, Old Testament,1985, SP Publications Inc.)

Leviathan also appears in the Apocryphal Book of Enoch, giving the following description of this monster's origins there mentioned as being female, as opposed to the male Behemoth:

    And that day will two monsters be parted, one monster, a female named Leviathan in order to dwell in the abyss of the ocean over the fountains of water; and (the other), a male called Behemoth, which holds his chest in an invisible desert whose name is Dundayin, east of the garden of Eden. - 1 Enoch 60:7-8

Leviathan is also sometimes said to have been of the order of Seraphim. According to the writings of Father Sebastien Michaelis, Balberith, a demon who allegedly possessed Sister Madeleine at Aix-en-Provence, obligingly told the priest not only the other devils possessing the nun, but added the special saints whose function was to oppose them. Leviathan was one devil that was named and was said to tempt men into committing sacrilege. Its adversary was said to be St. Peter.

According to St. Thomas Aquinas, Leviathan is the demon of envy and the demon who is first in punishing the corresponding sinners. Some medieval authors, such as Collin de Plancy and Johann Weyer, considered Leviathan to be Grand Admiral of the maritime regions of Hell.

Oh, wiki has Leviathan as Grand Admiral too, didn't see that before.

Wikipedia seems to be leaning towards demon, but Leviathan has been interpreted to be just an animal, which I believe is also elsewhere on the page. Yet if it were, it's assumed to be a serpent or crocodile. Dinosaur? Maybe, but for the purposes of this discussion, I'd say no.

And demons/angels are considered to look very natural, like an ordinary human or animal, yet even still you'd be able to tell they were more than that right away. Also demons, even when taking the form of human or animal, cannot do so completely. It's said that God's law forces them to show in some way they're inhuman. So, part of their body is always "demonic looking".

Arguement -
Angels can't breath fire.
Therefore Demons can't breath fire.

lol
My friend wrote a book were the angels breath fire...

oh, and in the part were it talks about the leviathan is long with scales, like a snake...  CLICKS HERE NOW!!!


Edit (by mullet)-
On teh subject of the entire bible, if a culture were to develop completely seperate from all other religions, it would develop it's own religion. This is not only based on its culture, i.e. traditions, punishments, but also on the way they wished to perceive the afterlife. All cultures develop a religion, founded around the afterlife, because the idea of the spark of life, being gone forever and thus so cruelly stealing our loved ones from us, is to much to bear. Obviously, when no-one ever comes back, relying on blind faith instead of reason, they would create an afterlife. The idea is that they don't want their loved ones to be gone. So they invent a place for them to go, so that they can be seen later. Like a kennel, or a lost and found.

lol
My friend wrote a book were the angels breath fire...

oh, and in the part were it talks about the leviathan is long with scales, like a snake...  CLICKS HERE NOW!!!

Also it says God banished it to the sea...

ROFLZZZ!!! WOULDN'T IT BE HILLARIOUS IF THAT WAS REFERING TO TEH LOCK NESS MONSTER!?!?

I just made that connection lolz.

Oh, and angels/demons can't breathe fire. They can summon it (angels from Heaven, demons from Hell *obviously*), but they can't breath it.

In the late fifth century BC...

The Bible was started to be written 1000 B.C. Also The hebrew folk didn't have any contact even quite some time after the late 5th century B.C..

So you are dmitting that the Old Testament was the product of isolated desert savages? That if they had contact with other, more intelligent cultures, they wouldn't have had this mythology?

God is not science.

Of course.

People wanted to know how everything was created, so the invented science. SCIENCE is the thing that is supposed to explain the Genesis, not God.

Weasel word! Genesis is already an explanation of the origin of the universe and is decidedly unscientific. Science does not exist to explain the Bible.

Also I said so even the most stupid human could understand it. Find one person with an IQ of 50 or lower and explain him what an atom is. Now explain him tell him there is a God who created everything. What do you think how he will react?

People with an IQ of 50 are retarded. So: is the Bible written for retarded people? If so, why are the metaphors sometimes incomprehensible. Also, what do you have to say about people who believe that the Bible is 100% factual? What about the people who believe that the Bible is partially factual?

how many people believe that? And what was the metaphor behind, say, Noah's Ark?

I don't know what Metophor is behind Noah's Ark, how could I? Didn't I say, I haven't read the Bible?!

Read it and get back to me.

The Bible says that fruit bearing plants were created before fish. If this is a metaphor, it is an inaccurate one.

[sarcasm]Oh, in the Bible is exactly written how plants slowly turned into fish? I didn't know that.[/sarcasm] If you didn't know, fish also breathe. Plants were first on earth, they created O₂ out of C0₂, the water absorbed some of it due to diffusion. AFTER these events, fish had something to breathe and could start to evolve.

Obviously you know nothing about evolutionary history. Plants were not "first" on Earth, they were contemporaneous with primitive animals (as well as the other kingdoms). Fruit are the products of flowering plants, which are the products of land plants. Flowering plants first made an appearance during the Cretaceous. Dinosaurs and mammals are not older than fish.

Yeah, that's not what you're doing at all!

And what exactly have I said different than just the entire Christianity?

You say that the Bible is entirely metaphorical. How many hundreds of millions believe otherwise?

Why?

You've already had Physic classes? If yes, you should be able to recall this here. I mean this part:

Energy is a conserved quantity, meaning that it cannot be created or destroyed, but only converted from one form into another. Thus, the total energy of the universe always remains constant.

So if it can't be created or destroyed, there has to be an origin as the universe wasn't existant for eternity, it is about 13.7 billion years old. Again, check wiki if you don't believe me.

Stop trying to make God into a personification of natural forces.

Believing in something that isn't real is harmful.

Prove that he doesn't exist then.

There is no evidence that he does, and science seems to get along fine without having to account for the divine.

It's incredible how Jesus' words were universal. You can take any time, any situation, any possible possiblity and if you listen to what he said, you will realize "Yes... that actually is right."

Erm, you have quoted that part, but there's nothing below it... >.<

Maybe you just don't want to see it.

11 So he said to them, "Whoever  divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery against her. 12 And if a woman divorces her husband and marries another, she commits adultery."

But it is a false hope.

Again, I tell you prove that it's false.

Prove that there isn't a teapot orbiting Vega right now. You can't? It must be there, then.

And how do you know he doesn't? Did you go out into the universe looked for God and haven't found him? Just because you can't percept electromagnetic waves, doesn't mean they don't exist.

Buy we can perceive EM waves. Where are the instruments that measure God?

Prove that time exists. You can't prove it, yet it exists.

We can observe the passage of events. I have not yet observed God.

No, I never said God does exist, I said there is no proof that he doesn't just like there is no proof that he does. You can't say something doesn't exist if it is beyond our understanding and possibilities to prove. Same works with Nessy there. We are not really in the position to prove its existence.

The fact that the workings of the universe operate exactly the same without a divine hand is proof.

BTW, a flying spaghetti monster is irrational, it can't exist IN THIS UNIVERSE, because of the laws of physics we have here. That's already proof that it doesn't exist IN THIS UNIVERSE.

So why can God?

I don't think Nessy exists. Why? Do you really think it has survived for 65 million years? Meh. Although I can be wrong.

If there was a large enough population to sustain a plesiosaur population for millions of years then they would be surfacing all the time and carcasses would wash up on the shore regularly.

EDIT: All in all if you can't prove it doesn't exist, it's not wrong to believe in it. It's not your problem, so you don't have to go on other people's nerves because of it.

It is our problem because society is worse off when burdened with magical thinking.

@JH: Oh, is it harmful if I believe Nessy exists and live on my life even though it doesn't?

Nobody who believes that the Lock Ness Monster exists thinks that it tells them how to live their lives.

There are a few reasons I don't follow my Christian Faith (I was born into it, but have rejected it)...

Nobody is born a Christian.

Reasons:-

1. Why the heck do people go to Church on a Sunday ?

2. Why do Christians wear the cross around their necks, that’s what killed their beloved Jesus...?

3. Why is there so many different versions of the Bible?...

These questions are easily answered and if that was all it took to abandon Christianity then your faith wasn't very strong in the first place.

But... I do think Jesus was a real person,

Why?

and yeah he may have thought he was the son of God... now I can give you a few reasons why he thought this:-

1. He had a mental problem like Scitsophrenea... he heard voices... and the power of positive thought from those that followed him helped make people feel better... combined mental projection has not been investigated enough, who knows if Jesus and his deciplines all concentrated their thoughts at one thing may be it had X-men like effects...

FUCK.

2. He had some decpiles that had over imaginative minds... no doubt through sleep deprivation, it’s not like the had spring mattress and they had been on the run from Herod for some time...

FUCK.

3. May be Jesus was a Drug dealer, and his Disciples followed him for free hand outs and most of the time tripping their nuts off... and seeing Jesus do wonder-ful things... like feeding the 5,000 with fish and bread... may be he got them to smoke so weed 1st, and they all had the munchies and ate dirt and just so happened to be Hallucinating Jesus handing them Bread when all it was, was Mud... Could explain why Jesus Washed feet, may be he was collecting Fungal Spores to grind up into Acid like tablets...

FUCK.

I do however think there are beings walking by us, not of this dimension, I think they have no time barrier... just like Bacteria can't see us, we cant see them... May be once we die and our Energy is released we may be able to see them (Brain Death)...

FUCK.

dinosaurs and fossils

Let me link you to the appropriate TalkOrigins page.

http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/CC/CC361.html
http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/CH/CH581.html

Arguement -
Angels can't breath fire.
Therefore Demons can't breath fire.

Is this directed at me? Because if it is, I don't know what it means, I never mentioned anything about breathing fire.

@Blizzard: Saying the spaghetti monster can't exist because of our laws of physics doesn't support that God exists; By our laws of physics, God is irrational and therefore cannot be, because of the claim that he is all-powerful, he can do whatever he wants, physics wouldn't apply to Him. So, laws of physics here doesn't mean anything, and is completely irrelevant to the point I was making (which is clear many of you have never heard of the flying spaghetti monster rebuttal), yet Jesus Hitler and others here have made similar points as me, so we'll see what is said about those...

1. He had a mental problem like Scitsophrenea... he heard voices... and the power of positive thought from those that followed him helped make people feel better... combined mental projection has not been investigated enough, who knows if Jesus and his deciplines all concentrated their thoughts at one thing may be it had X-men like effects...

Hey Jesus Hitler, according to ladofshadows I have awesome powers... 

Hmm I just realised that Jesus Hitler is the only one here who will know what I mean by that.

Life's pleasures and pain is nothing compared to the pleasures or the pain that awaits you after death. Choose you way: Cause pain now and feel pain after death or cause pleasure now and feel pleasure after death. You will get what you earn yourself.

@Fu: Lol, you're nuts! :O

@Halo: Just like you said, he doesn't apply to our physics. That's why he is all-powerful. He isn't limited like we are. And that spaghetti monster might exist, I can't prove it doesn't, even tough it's actually irrational, but meh.

@Tsuno: God created the very beginning (call it Big Bang if you will). Everything else eles that followed was just like God wanted it and has foreseen it. Most probably everything around us is already destinied, but it is on us to fullfil it, because we are the ones who have free will.

@JH:

People with an IQ of 50 are retarded. So: is the Bible written for retarded people? If so, why are the metaphors sometimes incomprehensible. Also, what do you have to say about people who believe that the Bible is 100% factual? What about the people who believe that the Bible is partially factual?

Stop twisting my words for the second time, I have said EVEN the most stupid human. That means the Bible is written for ANYBODY.

So you are dmitting that the Old Testament was the product of isolated desert savages? That if they had contact with other, more intelligent cultures, they wouldn't have had this mythology?

You should really listen to yourself... Greek mythology had its roots inside a civilised community, yet today nobody believes in Zeus or Olympia or anything like that. So which religion has survived? Desert savages or sophisticated and civilised mythology? Think about that a little bit.

Obviously you know nothing about evolutionary history. Plants were not "first" on Earth, they were contemporaneous with primitive animals (as well as the other kingdoms). Fruit are the products of flowering plants, which are the products of land plants. Flowering plants first made an appearance during the Cretaceous. Dinosaurs and mammals are not older than fish.

Yes, animals were there before land plants. But plants were the very first.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_evolution
Click on Photosyntesis (note, it's before animals) and tell me what algea is. Or just don't, I know it already.

Dinosaurs and mammals are not older than fish.

?_? I never said that. It's obvious that dinosaurs evolved out of fish (in a long shot of course...)

You say that the Bible is entirely metaphorical. How many hundreds of millions believe otherwise?

It wasn't always this way. In the times we have today, we know it's not entirely metaphorical and also only the Old Testament mainly is.

Maybe you just don't want to see it.

Sorry, I wasn't sure what you meant with that, so I didn't want to interprete it wrong.

11 So he said to them, "Whoever  divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery against her. 12 And if a woman divorces her husband and marries another, she commits adultery."

Yes, marrying another wife while your first wife is still alive is a big sin. Doesn't it say "Until death divorces us."? What do you think that comes from? Something like this should be in the Bible: "Marriage is a holy bound between a man and a woman."

Stop trying to make God into a personification of natural forces.

Haha, natural forces! Since when is pure energy a natural force? So light is a natural force, yeah? And heat also? Check wiki what light and heat actually are, I'm too lazy to get you the links. Obviously yes, you didn't have any advanced physics classes.

There is no evidence that he does, and science seems to get along fine without having to account for the divine.

Problem solved.

Prove that there isn't a teapot orbiting Vega right now. You can't? It must be there, then.

Prove that there is. What do you think people mean be "undetermined"? It means it can't be proved that it's wrong, neither it can't be proved that it's right. If there actually IS a God is undetermined. That's why it's called belief. There is no proof that there isn't. In other words you believe that there is a teapot orbiting Vega right now. Alright, fine with me, my DC-factor on this sentence is 9.9.

Buy we can perceive EM waves. Where are the instruments that measure God?

No, you can't. Perceive (sorry for percept, English is just my third language...) is different from measuring. Can you feel EM waves? Can you see them? Can you taste them? Again I say measuring is not the same as perceiving.
Example:
You perceive it's colder inside than outside. How many degrees? Well, you can't tell me except you measure it and compare the two temparatures.

We can observe the passage of events.

Interesting conclusion... But I would rather say we see its effects, because time is quantized (that means there IS a smallest measure of time, a so-called frame) and inside one frame there is no change, so you can't observe time inside one frame, therefore you can't observe time, only it's effects.

I have not yet observed God.

[sarcasm]Christianity is just a folklore, it doesn't really exist, you know. And Jesus is not real. Just like all the churches around the world.[/sarcasm] I have observed the effects that God has on the people. Did you? Maybe I should leave this part out, because I am not trying to convince you that God exists as analogy to the existance of time (or maybe even time doesn't exist ?_? ). You can ignore this here if you want to.

The fact that the workings of the universe operate exactly the same without a divine hand is proof.

Read the first part I told Tsuno.

So why can God?

I didn't say he exists inside the universe. You should be able to find that from my post you have quoted there.

If there was a large enough population to sustain a plesiosaur population for millions of years then they would be surfacing all the time and carcasses would wash up on the shore regularly.

Sure. Just like I said, I doubt it. Yet I can't prove it and... well, that's it. I live my life on.

Nobody who believes that the Lock Ness Monster exists thinks that it tells them how to live their lives.

Nobody tells you how to live your life. Forgot what free will is?

Read it and get back to me.

Lol, I don't care what you think or if you believe me. It's you choice to believe or not, nobody can enforce you his belief, neither I am trying here. But you should do the same. I'm not trying to get you believe in God, I only try to explain why I do believe in God.



I think I will stop posting here... -_- It takes mre more than half an hour to put such a post together... Although I feel good to have some intellectual challenge here.

11 So he said to them, "Whoever  divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery against her. 12 And if a woman divorces her husband and marries another, she commits adultery."

Yes, marrying another wife while your first wife is still alive is a big sin. Doesn't it say "Until death divorces us."? What do you think that comes from? Something like this should be in the Bible: "Marriage is a holy bound between a man and a woman.

So it would be better to kill your wife first?

That's even more of a sin. But technically yes: If you kill her you don't sin if you marry another woman. BUT YOU HAVE KILLED HER! THAT'S WORSE!
Lol, you should have seen my face when I found out marrying another woman if your first one is still alive is a sin. :O I was like "WTF?!"

Did no one notice the bit where I said the Bible mentions Nessy? (No one laughed. =/ )

@HoTS - The arguement was a joke. It wasn't meant to be taken seriously.
While you didn't say anything about them breathing fire, the Bible passages refering to the leviation and behemoth do. (If only one of them)
So I was making a semi-serious arguement with it.

EDIT : Also, Christianity (Judeaism) is the only religion that had no begining. It was here forever. Every other religion has had a begining. Why is that?
If you really believe that we created God to explain Science, tell me when He was "created".

EDIT 2: REFERING TO DIVORCE -

If you divorce for stupid reasons (had an arguement) and get married, that is a sin.
There are certain reasons for getting divorced (continued adultry, assault,murder, etc.) that are understood.

When you get married, you and your wife (or vice versa) become one body, not physically, but spiritually. This is why divorce is so painful, your ripping one piece into two. You can try to tape pieces together, but they'll never be the same again.

EDIT : Also, Christianity (Judeaism) is the only religion that had no begining. It was here forever. Every other religion has had a begining. Why is that?
If you really believe that we created God to explain Science, tell me when He was "created".

What?

EDIT : Also, Christianity (Judeaism) is the only religion that had no begining. It was here forever. Every other religion has had a begining. Why is that?
If you really believe that we created God to explain Science, tell me when He was "created".

Come on, Tsuno. You're a pretty smart guy, do we really have to go into this? I will say you could argue it's been around since the beginning of recorded history... actually, I can't be 100% about that, but I'm fairly sure that's correct... but the beginning of recorded history is not the beginning of time (hence the debate), so you can't say it had no beginning. The Big Bang didn't happen and then all of a sudden there was a universe, and on one planet called Earth, there were Jews. -.-

LOL, that was worded very poorly, but you get it.

Bringing up another issue (sort of). Since the big bang has pretty well been proven, why is it all of a sudden that Christians who said it never happened because God created everything are saying "Well, God caused the Big Bang.", when before they didn't believe it happened? This isn't the first time in Christianity we've seen this sort of thing happen. Things are twisted to fit their views every time, or something from the Bible just gets "overlooked".

You should kill your child if he strikes you

Women should be subjugated by their husbands

How come this isn't believed in today? So Christians can pick and choose which parts of the Bible they believe in? I don't think it's supposed to work that way, that would be an insult to God.

EDIT 2: REFERING TO DIVORCE -
If you divorce for stupid reasons (had an arguement) and get married, that is a sin.
There are certain reasons for getting divorced (continued adultry, assault,murder, etc.) that are understood.

In my school, we were taught divorce is a sin, period.

[sarcasm]I have observed the effects that God has on the people. Did you?

You have observed the effects that the belief in God has on people. The human mind is an amazing and powerful thing.

Also, Christianity (Judeaism) is the only religion that had no begining. It was here forever. Every other religion has had a begining. Why is that?
If you really believe that we created God to explain Science, tell me when He was "created".

I hope you were joking.

So it would be better to kill your wife first?

You know it would be easy to give her a divorce first.
EVen if you have to force her to. @_@

I'm simply going to say that, in the end, does it really matter? If Tsuno wants to believe in his God, then by all means let him do what he needs to do to get himself through his day. I don't believe God exists, but I'm also not going to try and pick at every flaw in the religion because I honestly don't think it would accomplish much of anything.

I can believe that Bruce Willis is a god. As ridiculous as such a belief may be, it's still a belief and no one's going to change it for me. The only way one can truly change their beliefs is by oneself.

The same can be applied to Tsuno's situation. We can all sit here and argue with him constantly about whether God exists, but in the end he'll still believe in God no matter how the topic ends. That's one of the main reasons I feel religion is something that should never be debated. It's entirely based on belief systems, and there are too many unanswered questions to prove one side over another.

EDIT : Also, Christianity (Judeaism) is the only religion that had no begining. It was here forever. Every other religion has had a begining. Why is that?
If you really believe that we created God to explain Science, tell me when He was "created".

This isn't right. Juaism goes back to around fivethousand years ago. It did indeed have a 'begining'. By the way, my religion goes back six thousand years Tsuno. I love you Tsuno, in a non creepy way of course, but yo the point, Tsuno.... YOU'RE the Heathen.

I'm simply going to say that, in the end, does it really matter? If Tsuno wants to believe in his God, then by all means let him do what he needs to do to get himself through his day. I don't believe God exists, but I'm also not going to try and pick at every flaw in the religion because I honestly don't think it would accomplish much of anything.

Okay, Tsuno believes in God, thats why he posted this.
All I-D topics debate on whether it is or not, on everyones point of view, so the thing youre saying the If Tsuno believes let him and dont flaw will make a useless waste out of I-D.

Nightwolf... Uh this is in ID, and I wouldn't call this topic a waste at all.

What if Heaven and Hell are the same place... like this world we are in now, to some its a Heaven and others a Hell...

Who's to say we have not been alive as some other being prior to now and this is our Heaven or Hell we are living now...

Well thats bollox really, but what if...

The after life could be a mirror image of this, but depending on your mood depends on your experince...

Okay, Tsuno believes in God, thats why he posted this.
All I-D topics debate on whether it is or not, on everyones point of view, so the thing youre saying the If Tsuno believes let him and dont flaw will make a useless waste out of I-D.

Translate this into English for me and maybe I'll respond to it.

What if Heaven and Hell are the same place... like this world we are in now, to some its a Heaven and others a Hell...

Who's to say we have not been alive as some other being prior to now and this is our Heaven or Hell we are living now...

Well thats bollox really, but what if...

The after life could be a mirror image of this, but depending on your mood depends on your experince...

That's so irrational I punched myself.

Okay, Tsuno believes in God, thats why he posted this.
All I-D topics debate on whether it is or not, on everyones point of view, so the thing youre saying the If Tsuno believes let him and dont flaw will make a useless waste out of I-D.

My Intrup of this is... If some one wishes to believe in God then let them, don't knock it or diss it, its a matter of choice and opinion, a personal point of view, not some thing to pull apart and make a mock of...

But to be honest its hard not to when the Bible is not much more factual than any other fictional novel... Its all hear say and different peoples views and its that old who knows what really happened back then... And frankly who cares...

But if people would rather have belief in another rather then them selves as long as they draw strength from that then I am all for it... I wont mock or diss those that find comfort and strength in some thing that I don't understand or wish to...

And I think at the end of the day every one should respect that...

That's so irrational I punched myself.

You make me laugh Fu... Comic Genius...LOL

I was wondering a while ago about how I'd incorporate religion into my game concept. At first I was going to make the game completely atheist, but I realized that would be way too hard. And since I was currently reading the Dragonlance series at the time, I made three gods in my game. One would rule over the heaven, or the Valhalla or Arcadia or whatever you want to call it. One would rule over the underworld or "hell." And the third would rule over what I named Cipheria, a spiritual destination that is not heaven nor hell, good nor evil. In fact, it is nothing. Your spirit is sent into complete nothingness, and you suffer it forever. Since those who are good are blessed with the heaven, and those who are evil are blessed with the hell, there was nowhere for the truly criminal to go. So I made a place for people who committed the most heinous crimes against humanity.

This really has nothing to do with the topic, I just thought it'd be interesting to share.

EDIT 2: REFERING TO DIVORCE -

If you divorce for stupid reasons (had an arguement) and get married, that is a sin.
There are certain reasons for getting divorced (continued adultry, assault,murder, etc.) that are understood.

When you get married, you and your wife (or vice versa) become one body, not physically, but spiritually. This is why divorce is so painful, your ripping one piece into two. You can try to tape pieces together, but they'll never be the same again.

Yes, you can get divorced ON THE PAPER, but you can't get divorced in the Christian way. You can even marry again ON THE PAPER, but you can't have another marriage in a church with all the traditional stuff and so on. That means you can even live with another woman and stuff, but that is a sin as you actually are cheating on your true wife.

Bringing up another issue (sort of). Since the big bang has pretty well been proven, why is it all of a sudden that Christians who said it never happened because God created everything are saying "Well, God caused the Big Bang.", when before they didn't believe it happened? This isn't the first time in Christianity we've seen this sort of thing happen. Things are twisted to fit their views every time, or something from the Bible just gets "overlooked".

You can argue over and over it, Christianity was never meant to explain anything. Yes, Christians are strange sometimes... Actually they strange all the time... :=
Lol, look at me, I don't even go to Church on sunday. >.< Thing is that "the institution Church" has become... well too much of an institution.

How come this isn't believed in today? So Christians can pick and choose which parts of the Bible they believe in? I don't think it's supposed to work that way, that would be an insult to God.

Yes, I agree. Again you have to consider these words were written in a time where people would lose their life for sinning. These are not the modern days. Also you have to consider, the Bible may be "God's word", but it was written by humans with free will, who actually could have understood God's word wrong... -_- That's why Jesus came down: To fix the typos in the Bible for some reason. >.<
This is said very "simple", lol!

In my school, we were taught divorce is a sin, period.

Just like I said. I was also taught, divorce is a sin, it's even a very big one.

I'm simply going to say that, in the end, does it really matter? If Tsuno wants to believe in his God, then by all means let him do what he needs to do to get himself through his day. I don't believe God exists, but I'm also not going to try and pick at every flaw in the religion because I honestly don't think it would accomplish much of anything.

Yes, nobody forces you to believe or not. I totally agree on this part. Humans are not perfect, neither are the religions THEY have created and THEY have interpreted maybe wrong.

The same can be applied to Tsuno's situation. We can all sit here and argue with him constantly about whether God exists, but in the end he'll still believe in God no matter how the topic ends. That's one of the main reasons I feel religion is something that should never be debated. It's entirely based on belief systems, and there are too many unanswered questions to prove one side over another.

Yes, in the end it's not even important if there actually IS a God or not: It's faith that counts!

This really has nothing to do with the topic, I just thought it'd be interesting to share.

Lol, off topic. Yes, it's an interesting idea. I guess as long as there are humans, there will always be something like faith and religion.

You guys can think what you want, but last time I checked, I'm perfect. So there!

Naw seriously, Sin is a concept born of ignorance and it's been a dangerous concept to boot. Hell this ignornce is why the spanish inquisition happened. and Why people were converted at sword pouint before that. Basaclly, I think Jesus was history's greatest Monster. One day, Mohammed wil usurp him, but it'll still take a while.

So, fuck you Jesus Christ. You aren't wise and you never will be. You deserve NONE of the praise you get. And well, you probably didn't exsist to boot.

Nightwolf... Uh this is in ID, and I wouldn't call this topic a waste at all.

thats what im trying to say
Gilgamesh is saying theres no point discussing, but then its a waste right?
SO he's wrong lol
So..go on discuss stuff

Yes!

And well. I'm not sure who I hate more Jesus or Buddha.

@Fu: Lol! Well, that's your opinion. ^^

You guys can think what you want, but last time I checked, I'm perfect. So there!

Naw seriously, Sin is a concept born of ignorance and it's been a dangerous concept to boot. Hell this ignornce is why the spanish inquisition happened. and Why people were converted at sword pouint before that. Basaclly, I think Jesus was history's greatest Monster. One day, Mohammed wil usurp him, but it'll still take a while.

So, fuck you Jesus Christ. You aren't wise and you never will be. You deserve NONE of the praise you get. And well, you probably didn't exsist to boot.

... Last time I checked this was an intelligant debate board. Not a mindless rant board. You don't see me dissing your religion do you? Why diss mine? What you just said is like me walking up to you and saying -
"Mohammed was never real, he was a ball of crap some drunk guys picked up one day and started calling Mohammed. They thought it would be funny to screw with the world so they made a new religion. That is history's most dangerous piece of crap ever."

While I'm not exactly good with insults (it's been a while) I think you get my point. So, either -

1.) Straighten up.
2.) Continue ranting and I'll lock this topic and request it be deleted.

As much as I like this topic, I have no problem of getting rid of it.

Quit taking it personally. It was aimed at the religion, not at you. That's his opinion, let him have it.

I agree with Zypher. If you don't like my religion, you don't have to. Period.

I only want to point out one fact about what Fu said: "The apostles made Jesus up." or something like that, but much longer...
Do you really think 12 different men who were living normal lives and never have met each other before would have given their lives for a lie? I don't think so.

Quit taking it personally. It was aimed at the religion, not at you. That's his opinion, let him have it.

But I do take it personally. That's something you (Zypher) wouldn't understand. (You did say you were aetheist correct?)

Everybody on this forum who has a religion will agree, that one of the most painful things to read is someone dissing their god.

Also, there are rules against flaming. They're not enforced as much in ID, but if it's off topic they can be.

EDIT : @Blizzard - You could also use that as a proof for Christianity.

Do you really think 12 different men who were living normal lives and never have met each other before would have given their lives for a lie? I don't think so.

But there are soldiers in Iraq giving their lives for a lie right now!

edit: pwn

Not true. I say, if you don't like my religion, you don't have to. Period.
Flaming is not nice in any way it can be done. It even wouldn't be nice if I flamed my ex here just because I wanted to. In that point you're right, Tsuno. But it's not good if you take it personally. You are not the entire Christianity and not all of them agree with you (i.e. me).

EDIT:

@Zypher: They were told a lie, they haven't made it up.

Also, there are rules against flaming. They're not enforced as much in ID, but if it's off topic they can be.

YOU ARE ABSOLUTELY RIGHT LET'S BAN FU FOR FLAMING GOD

You post too fast... -_- Read my reply above, Zypher.

Read mine, Blizz. 'Twas a joke.

Lol! Use more often.

Also, there are rules against flaming. They're not enforced as much in ID, but if it's off topic they can be.

YOU ARE ABSOLUTELY RIGHT LET'S BAN FU FOR FLAMING GOD

=/ I never said that. I was refering to rules regarding topics.

@BoE - God's just as righteous in the old testament as in the new testament.

In the NT, Jesus cleanses a temple filled with merchants and traders. He whipped them because they were using God's temple to make money. Also in the NT, Revelation, God unleashes plagues and tribulations to both punish the world and reclaim it.

@BoE - God's just as righteous in the old testament as in the new testament.

Not righteous but less killing... in the old testament he killed millions but then in the new testament he kill like nobody and nowadays he never lets loose a plauge of crickets or such....

Side note

how did 2 people = the millions today...

One word: Incest.

Bible if full of that... Adam and Eve... Noah and his wife... Etc...LOL

noah was middle eastern and would have had dark skin... so how are there white people today?

*blank* (I can't put word, am on a familiy computer) is a term we came up with today. While wrong, for many years it was considered okay. Heck, Albert Einstein married his cousin.

But I do take it personally. That's something you (Zypher) wouldn't understand. (You did say you were aetheist correct?)

Everybody on this forum who has a religion will agree, that one of the most painful things to read is someone dissing their god.

I was a Christian, and I learnt not to take that personally soon after coming on the Internet and meeting atheists.

And Tsunokiette, you can't write incest on the family computer? :|

But I do take it personally. That's something you (Zypher) wouldn't understand. (You did say you were aetheist correct?)

Everybody on this forum who has a religion will agree, that one of the most painful things to read is someone dissing their god.

I was a Christian, and I learnt not to take that personally soon after coming on the Internet and meeting atheists.

And Tsunokiette, you can't write incest on the family computer? :|

Not when my family is behind me. They might think I condone it or something. Especially my mom, she blames me for Ebay slowing down.

EDIT :

noah was middle eastern and would have had dark skin... so how are there white people today?

Because we all started off in the Middle-East. Closer to the equator. As we spread out our skin didn't have the need to protect itself from that much sun. You study that in a College level class. *forgot which one*

Any ways, I'm still sticking to my guns here That real or not Jesus did more harm than good.

True that. That image he posted was horrifying.

True that. That image he posted was horrifying.

I believe he was refering to Jesus Christ lol.

what image?

what image?

It was an image of the KKK whipping a black man, and the man was saying "I deserve this".

True that. That image he posted was horrifying.

I wasn't talking about JH. I don't apprecaite you talking behind one of my friends backs like that. I seriously expect better from you.

Fu if you have a problem with Zypher please PM him about it. Let's get back on topic here.

It was an image of the KKK whipping a black man, and the man was saying "I deserve this".

Don't forget the house burning in the background, and the noose around a tree limb waiting for the black man.
I am not fond of taking these black jokes as far as Jesus Hitler does, especially considering how these people suffered and still to some degree suffer from racism and related violence.

how did 2 people = the millions today...

Read one of my posts above.

Adam means like men and Eve means something like mother(s) I think. It never were only 2 humans, Adam is the plural for man on hebrewic.

Well if they want us to read between the lines why didn't they write that on the fricken back of the Bible and say make what you like of it... heck you could interp the blinking thing in any way you want reading it like that...

What a load of dribble... The only I use I can think of for Bible is lobbing at Jesus army freaks that ask me if I want my feet washed and a rather fetching Bright orange cross made from Bake-a-lite... ERRR NO FREAK BOY, Crack *me lobbing a Bibile at em*...

I would mind religion at all if they kept it to them selves, but no... they have to stop you in the street and ask you how your day is and then try and brain wash you... the Media bad enough for that and the goverment... and now God... things are going Mental...

Hold on I am ranting again... and going off on a Tangent... deep breath... and I am back in the room...

What did I just Write... Sod it, can't be asked to read it back... its no doubt I lobve Jesus and God's Wonder-ful or some thing along them lines...

I can't stand these people who always try to convert others. Jesus said "Spread the message.", not "ENFORCE MY WILL!!!" People who are constantly trying to convert other are actually sinning.

My Dean does that! Its so annoying!
Every friday she takes us to the chapel and tells
us all these storys and makes us watch these videos.
Then at the end she always sez see what happens when
you believe take God into your lives.
Take God into your life and only good can come out of it.

Now its so annoying.

Christians seem to think that the end justifies the means in terms of soulwinning, and it's ok to 'scare someone out of Hell' or pester unbelievers until they become Christians.
Or at least they do in Southern Baptist churches.

Yup thats true.

I just read something that describes Hell.

It's eternal seperation from God, no physical flames. Flames refer to the judgement you are experiencing. There's more on that but I have limited time on the comp. again. -_-

Anywho, the punishment isn't the same for everybody, the Bible says there are different degrees of separation.

As a matter of fact, while Hell IS a punishment, it's also NOT a punishment. If you deny God and reject Him, you are saying you want nothing to do with God. Therefore, God gives you your wish, you are separated forever from Him.

I've never believed that teh end justifies the means personally. It's just wrong...

I always thought that hell represented the idea of being unable to move to a different or inability to move to a higher plane of life (i.e., limbo)

I always thought that hell represented the idea of being unable to move to a different or inability to move to a higher plane of life (i.e., limbo)

It's complete seperation from God. Seperation from purpose. It's eternal nothingness.

Which is, well... Hell.

I think hell would be your worst thaught ever...
Like my Dad thinks hell would be all white every where, like on video clips when it looks like tthe white goes on for ever, and there is nobody with you.

In hell I will be forced to play Chakan: The Forever Man forever.

I heard that when you go to heaven you lose all memories of earth and what happened to you there, is this true?

I heard that when you go to heaven you lose all memories of earth and what happened to you there, is this true?

Lol, nope. You remember, you recognize people. It says "that they shall be read all they have done, good or bad".

Also, you will be so focused on God that you won't have time to think about your eartly life. Of course there is a New Heaven and a New Earth.

Basicly, we can't know.

But if he lets you remember everything then you would remember pain... but I thought there would be pain at all in heaven, so how does that work?

Kill yourself and find out. Then again, theoretically you'd go to hell...

The point is, nobody knows. So just wait until you die, then you'll know... or not know, depending on what happens after you die. Maybe nothing, maybe you just rot in a box underground while worms, millipedes, and maggots eat you.

I guessing that you posted that after reading this...

If you have a large diet of fruit and vegetables, it can be sweet though

and you know this how? 

Oh, and another thing... if you say you know that god is real because he spoke to you and millions of other and it can't be fake, because how could that many people fake together... then what about the other religions? did they fake talking to their god, all 4million+ of them...

Basicly, we can't know.

This is exactly the reason why I disagree with any form of religion.

I dont like not knowing ay... it scares me...
Thats pretty much the only thing im afraid of. DEATH.

My friend, WIll, dosen't believe in religion. I asked him why not, even when their are signs and books like the Quran and bible. He said that he believes a group of people must have made that as a joke. The worlds biggest prank is what he calss religion. I laughed so hard when he told me because well its a possiblity .

Don't fear death. It'll stop you from having fun in life.

My friend, WIll, dosen't believe in religion. I asked him why not, even when their are signs and books like the Quran and bible. He said that he believes a group of people must have made that as a joke. The worlds biggest prank is what he calss religion. I laughed so hard when he told me because well its a possiblity .

Just because the books exist doesn't make the subject matter true. If it did, Harry Potter would be my friend.

thats why he said they could be made up, and hell he could have a point

@Hots - Totally; Harry Potter is are teh bomberz.

Erm...

_________________________________________________

[BEGIN STATEMENT]

Atheism in of itself is a religion.

[END STATEMENT]

I thought atheism was a specific lack of a belief?

It is.

Okay thats weird, but tsuno has a point about it being a religion.
There are enough people around the world to make it one
I mean look they made jedi a religion!

No.

No what?

Aetheism tries as hard as possible not to be religious. It would be an oxy moron if it became a religion.

It's a BELIEF SYSTEM that there is no God.

Atheists don't believe there's no God. They just don't believe there's a God. I hope that makes sense, because I'm not rewording it.

Is there a name for the people that just don't care?

Nihilist?

I was thinking more like Apathetic.

It's actually Agnostic.

It's actually Fantastic.

An agnostic is an atheist waiting to happen.

Usually.

Actually, the religious ones are the ones into Fantasm.

But technically, they don't care.

This thread's DC factor just skyrocketed.

.....ok, let me put MY views into this.

Agnostic: A halfway point in between christian and athiest.

I happen to be one of those as well, but more on the lines of many diffrent ones >_>...

It's actually Agnostic.

Thank you.

An aetheist says there is no God.
An agnostic says we can't know.

Well, if you believe what the Bible says, then there can be no athiests at all.. They simply don't exist. The Bible says that man was created with a knoledge that there is a god. He can tell him/herself what he/she wishes to hear. But the Bible says that in their heart, everyone knows there is a god.

Yea in everybodys heart there is a god!

Agnostic: A halfway point in between christian and athiest.

I happen to be one of those as well, but more on the lines of many diffrent ones >_>...

So agnostics are half-Christian, half-atheist? Since when? It's not like Christianity is the only religion with a divinity.

What is divinity?

Well, if you believe what the Bible says, then there can be no athiests at all.. They simply don't exist. The Bible says that man was created with a knoledge that there is a god. He can tell him/herself what he/she wishes to hear. But the Bible says that in their heart, everyone knows there is a god.

In their heart, but it doesn't mean that they can't deny it or harden against their hearts to the point of not recognizing that.

 In the bible it tells you that a war will take place, which will last 7 years. This is a war between god and the devil. Why will it take god 7 years to kill the devil, when he could just "snap his fingers" and he would be gone, or dead, whatever god chose.

Ive REad (heard actually) The Ramayan.

Its not easy to defeat a monster who's head keeps popping up. It took lot of time man.

In the bible it tells you that a war will take place, which will last 7 years. This is a war between god and the devil. Why will it take god 7 years to kill the devil, when he could just "snap his fingers" and he would be gone, or dead, whatever god chose.

One smite for you. I have posted at least 3 times in this thread that the Bible is metaphoric, not to mention how often the other members posted the same thing.

Well, if you believe what the Bible says, then there can be no athiests at all.. They simply don't exist. The Bible says that man was created with a knoledge that there is a god. He can tell him/herself what he/she wishes to hear. But the Bible says that in their heart, everyone knows there is a god.

Why you're right! The Bible is absolutely factual so it must be true! There is a god!

In the bible it tells you that a war will take place, which will last 7 years. This is a war between god and the devil. Why will it take god 7 years to kill the devil, when he could just "snap his fingers" and he would be gone, or dead, whatever god chose.

One smite for you. I have posted at least 3 times in this thread that the Bible is metaphoric, not to mention how often the other members posted the same thing.

Actually the 7 years is the tribulation. The series of judgements cast upon the earth. The Anti-Christ claims he is God in the temple 3 & 1/2 years into the trib.

The battle that your speaking of is won instantaneously.... And Jesus didn't nap His fingers, rather He just spoke the word and the enemy was defeated.

One reason God does not destroy Satan is simply because as divine punishment, Satan will be the first to enter the abyss. Followed by the False Prophet and the Anti-Christ.

If you read Rev. (it's not that long) you'll understand this topic more.
It's not as simple as you make it out to be.

@Zypher - If there is no God, why do people feel repulsed by the idea of a God and continue to argue against Him? If there really is not eternity it would be stupid to prove to someone God doesn't exist. It wouldn't matter in the long run.

You're right, it doesn't. I'm not even a big advocator of atheism, I just post here because I'm bored. I said in one of my first posts in here that arguing about religion was useless, as it really doesn't matter who believes in what. In the end, we live and die, and that's that.

All of you have no idea how much Pagan Pride you're instilling into me. When the Ragnarok happens, you guys are gonna get pwnt.

I was under the impression that when Ragnarok happens everbody is going to get pwnt.

I was under the impression that when Ragnarok happens...

Oh wait, it won't

I was under the impression that when Ragnarok happens...

Oh wait, it won't

Okay thats it, once I'm dead I'm talking Odin into letting you into Valhalla. And I'm not doing it to be nice, I'll do it to piss you off.

I was under the impression that when Ragnarok happens...

Oh wait, it won't

Okay thats it, once I'm dead I'm talking Odin into letting you into Valhalla. And I'm not doing it to be nice, I'll do it to piss you off.

I was under the impression that when Ragnarok happens (it won't) the gods will all get pawnt. So, no more thor....

Yes but because Jesus is Coward he'll get pwnt before I will. But I'll still get pwnt before the gods do. Also, the fact everything dies is what makes the Ragnarok kick total ass.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3326292852590673568&q

Failure, lol. In his "proof"for his religion, he uses doctrine from the religion he's trying to prove.

I'm still trying to figure if Silver will get Pwnt before or after I will.

Ragnarok can't be true. It says EXACTLY what will happen during the Ragnarok. This is ridiculious.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3326292852590673568&q

Failure, lol. In his "proof"for his religion, he uses doctrine from the religion he's trying to prove.

I don't think the universe was created, I think it was just... there.

Oh, and this guy pisses me off, I don't know why but he is annoying! He said alcohol was bad, but in some part Jesus turned water into wine... and he asked "who made gravity" I loled so hard! NOBODY MADE IT! Then he starts to joke about the bombs we dropped on japan... I want this bastard to die, NOW!!

He never says anything about dinosaurs, so the dinosaurs lived 6,000 years ago?

@Zypher - If there is no God, why do people feel repulsed by the idea of a God and continue to argue against Him? If there really is not eternity it would be stupid to prove to someone God doesn't exist. It wouldn't matter in the long run.

It's a debate. It's meant to exercise you intellectually, show you various perspectives and challenge your perspective.
I'm repulsed by the idea of a god because so many people follow beliefs about gods, without evidence, just on pure faith in a fictitious being(s).

he says that dinosaurs were around 4004 years ago, because the bible said so. Why is that something christens always go to?

Person A "who made the world?"
Person B "god"
Person A "how do you know this?"
Person B "the bible said so."

And this "debate" is going nowhere! We are basing our comebacks on what we believe! So instead of combacks that have to do with the person's views it the speaker's views.

Person A- Likes to throw apples a lizards
Person B- Thinks apples explode when they hit something

Person A " I'm going to hit a lizard with an apple"
Person B "but that will kill it."

Person B beleives something that makes it hard to see the other person's point. Tsunokiette is going on what the bible says and it is clouding what you are saying, and you are going on what you were taught and that clouds what he is saying. So in the end we are blind people trying to lead each other trough a fog.

....where are you again?



Well the old testament itself is chock full of factual recordings.

You have to remember, this wasn't something someone wrote down, it's something many people over 1000's of years recorded.

If more than half of the Bible is factual, why wouldn't the rest be?

*sigh* Ask for proof and I shall try to do better than last time lols.

That really didn't have much to do with my post. 

That really didn't have much to do with my post. 

It doesn't?

I'm pretty sure you were saying that our judgement was being clouded by using our faith to debate. By me saying that the Bible is, in fact, factional, I am argueing against this.

  Oh, I see it did, But I was not going that far, If you look I also said it was clouding us from seeing your side. Not saying that it's clouding you from the truth, just clouding what they are saying.

And who did Adam's son marry, and who did their son/daughter marry? a rock? They were the only two humans.

Rampant incest.

As I've said before, as abnormal as it is (but who are we to define what is normal?), many famous people throughout history practiced incest. Including Albert Einstein.

Also, family ties were viewed differently way back then.

There wasn't the "family" as we define it by law, it was simply humans in God's family. That's as far as it went.

if Noah was told to get 2 of each animal then why did he forget the dinosaurs?

Tsunokiette blindly believes the Bible based off of nothing but that he wants to, that he has faith that it's accurate.
Those of us who require proof for such things as Creation, the Flood, and various other biblical accounts will naturally be at odds and grate with those who don't.
And,

If more than half of the Bible is factual, why wouldn't the rest be?

No book is 100% factual. This is such a poor argument, I mean really, just because part of a text is true does not necessitate the rest is, even if that part is 50%, or 60%, or 99.99999999% true!

I've heard this line so many times "it's in the bible so it's true!" so now, I'm going to write a book about how cats invented cheese, and it will be true, because it is in a book.

Tsunokiette blindly believes the Bible based off of nothing but that he wants to, that he has faith that it's accurate.
Those of us who require proof for such things as Creation, the Flood, and various other biblical accounts will naturally be at odds and grate with those who don't.
And,

If more than half of the Bible is factual, why wouldn't the rest be?

No book is 100% factual. This is such a poor argument, I mean really, just because part of a text is true does not necessitate the rest is, even if that part is 50%, or 60%, or 99.99999999% true!

Let me rephrase that then.

No book changes it's viewpoint halfway through.

You don't read a fictional novel which becomes fact halfways through.

You don't read an encylopedia that becomes short story halfway through.

That just doesn't happen. It never has.

The fact is, the Bible is a collection of recordings. It is recorded history.

For those that say that the Bible is just a prank.

The Jews take their religion just as seriously as any religion takes their religion, I doubt they would blaspheme it like that.

EDIT : @BoE - I just said that if you don't believe me ask for proof and I'll give it to you. You're ignoring what I've said.

Again I say. I've heard this line so many freaking times that it's bugging the hell out of me! They always go back to "it's in the bible so it's true!" to get out of any question! You asked a question they can't answer and they will go to that line. so now, I'm going to write a book about how cats invented cheese, and it will be true, because it's in a book.

Plus the

You have to remember, this wasn't something someone wrote down, it's something many people over 1000's of years recorded.

is proof that the Bible got turned into many falsities. How many times do you think it was re-written and re-translated? And you know it was always changed because of the so many different views one can have on the events in the Bible. Most likely, it's all nothing more than a fairytale.

Again I say. I've heard this line so many freaking times that it's bugging the hell out of me! They always go back to "it's in the bible so it's true!" to get out of any question! You asked a question they can't answer and they will go to that line. so now, I'm going to write a book about how cats invented cheese, and it will be true, because it's in a book.

.... I just said if you want proof ask, don't ignore me. I don't usually get tidcked, but this arogance of yours is right near pissing me off. You want archelogical proof? Ask and ye shall recieve.

Dish it out then.

also

For those that say that the Bible is just a prank.

The Jews take their religion just as seriously as any religion takes their religion, I doubt they would blaspheme it like that.

What? The Bible was written by ancient men looking for power and influence. Judaism is just another Middle Eastern religion, that has been constantly evolving since the beginning.

if Noah was told to get 2 of each animal then why did he forget the dinosaurs?

This has to be the funniest post in the entire thread.

if Noah was told to get 2 of each animal then why did he forget the dinosaurs?

This has to be the funniest post in the entire thread.

Do you really think 2 dinosaurs could have co-existed with that many food sources? Heck, the ark would've been destroyed. He didn't forget them, he left 'em on purpose.


[archaelogical proof] I got no sleep last night, it's 10 pm, I'll check tomorrow.

yeah it's really too bad those sheep and dinosaurs couldn't live together

Yeah, a leaf eating dinosaur could not live with a sheep, even if a tiger could.

yeah a leaf eating dinosaur could not live with a sheep is a tiger could.

This would be an excellent point if you knew how to structure a sentence properly.

Yeah, a leaf eating dinosaur could not live with a sheep, even if a tiger could.

Better?

Ragnarok can't be true. It says EXACTLY what will happen during the Ragnarok. This is ridiculious.

Christanity does the same damned thing.

Faith is the blind device of fools. To have faith in something is to deny the inherant nature of it.
Saying that you have faith that god created somethig does not make it so. The idea of faith in a religion is that, because the god figure cannot be proved, you must have faith and accept it for it to save you after death. Therefore, through religion, relity has always been skewed. SOMETHING THAT IS IN THE BIBLE IS NOT REAL!!! You are expected to believe it through faith. If a second grader has been taught his entire life that god is real, he will undoubtedly believe in him. If he has never heard of god, he will not believe in him. he will not have "faith" that there is some walking miracle-maker who simply poofed man into existence. Faith is what makes men blind.

he says that dinosaurs were around 4004 years ago, because the bible said so. Why is that something christens always go to?

Person A "who made the world?"
Person B "god"
Person A "how do you know this?"
Person B "the bible said so."

And this "debate" is going nowhere! We are basing our comebacks on what we believe! So instead of combacks that have to do with the person's views it the speaker's views.

Person A- Likes to throw apples a lizards
Person B- Thinks apples explode when they hit something

Person A " I'm going to hit a lizard with an apple"
Person B "but that will kill it."

Person B beleives something that makes it hard to see the other person's point. Tsunokiette is going on what the bible says and it is clouding what you are saying, and you are going on what you were taught and that clouds what he is saying. So in the end we are blind people trying to lead each other trough a fog.

The most awesome and smartest post I have seen by you so far. I totally agree. Faith is kind of a lead. Some have it, some try to find another lead.
One applaud to you. And after the 2 hours are over I might give you one more.

Well the old testament itself is chock full of factual recordings.

You have to remember, this wasn't something someone wrote down, it's something many people over 1000's of years recorded.

If more than half of the Bible is factual, why wouldn't the rest be?

Tsuno, the Bible isn't 100% factual. Explain Adam and Eve, explain Noah, explain how God created the entire universe in 7 days. These are only a few examples. Listen to yourself, that's ridiculious.

*sigh* Ask for proof and I shall try to do better than last time lols.

Then prove that God created the universe in 7 days.

No book is 100% factual. This is such a poor argument, I mean really, just because part of a text is true does not necessitate the rest is, even if that part is 50%, or 60%, or 99.99999999% true!

I agree, neither is the Bible. People have to stop to believe that. It makes our religion look like idiots if somebody says "ZOMG, IT'S WRITTEN IN THE BIBLE, SO IT'S TRUE!!!1!1111!!1".

Plus the

You have to remember, this wasn't something someone wrote down, it's something many people over 1000's of years recorded.

is proof that the Bible got turned into many falsities. How many times do you think it was re-written and re-translated? And you know it was always changed because of the so many different views one can have on the events in the Bible. Most likely, it's all nothing more than a fairytale.

True. Did you know that "Jesus walked on the water." is actually also a false translation? In the original it says "Jesus walked next to the water." =/ Interesting how easy it is to make Jesus "create" a miracle. =/

@Tsuno: You ALWAYS have to consider that HUMANS wrote the Bible, humans who are imperfect.

Faith is the blind device of fools. To have faith in something is to deny the inherant nature of it.
Saying that you have faith that god created somethig does not make it so. The idea of faith in a religion is that, because the god figure cannot be proved, you must have faith and accept it for it to save you after death. Therefore, through religion, relity has always been skewed. SOMETHING THAT IS IN THE BIBLE IS NOT REAL!!! You are expected to believe it through faith. If a second grader has been taught his entire life that god is real, he will undoubtedly believe in him. If he has never heard of god, he will not believe in him. he will not have "faith" that there is some walking miracle-maker who simply poofed man into existence. Faith is what makes men blind.

As I said, in the end it's not important if there REALLY IS a God or not. It's faith that counts.

You say faith makes humans blind, right? And you are no believer, right? Talking about something you don't know is the greatest ignorance. I don't say having no faith is ignorance, but I say saying faith is wrong is ignorance. If you have had once faith and have lost it you can talk shit about faith as much as you want, but as long as have never believed, please don't.

If you have had once faith and have lost it you can talk shit about faith as much as you want, but as long as have never believed, please don't.

He did at one point. That was before I knew him.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3326292852590673568&q

Failure, lol. In his "proof"for his religion, he uses doctrine from the religion he's trying to prove.

I still want this guy to die.

This guy keeps trying to say that the bible talks about Adam and Eeve being the first living things, But, it talks about how god made the birds in the sky and the fish in the sea. SO, that mean they were not the first living things, and that ruins alot of his points that he uses that to make.

To disprove the dinosaurs he says, they could not be millions of years old because Adam and Eeve were the first living things.

I know it's getting annoying, but I say dinosaurs because I have never been given a good answer to that question. 

If you have had once faith and have lost it you can talk shit about faith as much as you want, but as long as have never believed, please don't.

He did at one point. That was before I knew him.

Really? Ok, have fun shitting all over faith, ZaMullet.

I was close to losing my faith recently, because of a line of events... But after another event I realized it's foolish. My faith now is stronger than ever, lol!

I know it's getting annoying, but I say dinosaurs because I have never been given a good answer to that question. 

The Christians who aren't bat-crazy would say that the story of creation in Genesis is allegorical (same with the arc story), and that "god-time" is different from "human-time", so that would allow whatever amount of years to pass between God's "days" so that evolution or whatever could take place (and like, the extinction of the dinosaurs and stuff).

But that's still a pretty half assed answer to the dinosaur question.

It may have been half-assed, but it's the only answer he's gotten (yet). Anyway, I'm not trying to defend the religion.

Okay, it's time for me to get up on my soapbox:

Regarding Christianity: Because of a fanatical belief in god, death is merely the doorway to that glorious eternity. People who are taught this from birth come to believe it with such blind zeal that they see anyone living in any manner other than according to christianity's -in other words failing to pay the price of sacrifice in return for eternal salvation- as deserving  an eternity of unimaginable agony in the flaming depths of Satans underworld. Very few people who grow up under this indoctrination have enough of their reasoning ability still intact to be able to think their out of this bewiching circular trap- nor do they want to. To them, to rejoice in life, to live for themselves, is trading eternity for a brief and sinful frolic before a looming doom-without-end. Since they must forgo the enjoyment of this life, they are going to be only too quick to notice anyone who fails to sacrifice as they should, fails to live by the canons of the Bible, of Christianity. Besides, recognition of sinfulness in others is deemed a virtue because it helps to direct those who neglect their moral duty to turn back towards the path of salvation. Our world is the world of life, so life is what;s important in this world. How dare they demean it by making the price of our only life the unknowable? How can they claim that they know anything about the nature of other worlds? The only way they know this to be true is some prophet, or the high priests, or some humble but deeply devout person has heard the intimate whispers of the divine, or has seen into a sacred vision God has sent them. And how do we verify the veracity of this testimony? Why to question such things is the greatest sin of all: Lack of Faith. The very fact that the unknowable is unknowable is what they claim gives faith it's virtue and makes it sacrosanct. After all, what would the virtue in faith be if that in which we have faith in could be known? A person who can maintain absolute faith faith without any proof whatsoever must possess profound virtue. As a consequence, only those who take the leap of faith off of the bedrock of the tangible into the emptiness of the imperceptible are righteous and worthy of eternal reward.

Wow. That woke me up at 1:45 here, knawing at my mind. Anyway, thats my novel. PLEASE take them to time to read it.

None of us are worthy. That's the point. Nobody can meet those standards.

Besides, like I've said before, not all of us were taught the Christian doctrine since we were born.

I just went on a christian leaders campe and it made me think about god and all that...
I have now stoped believing.
I mean c'mon. Think about it. Its pretty much impossible. GOD pfft.

I just went on a christian leaders campe and it made me think about god and all that...
I have now stoped believing.
I mean c'mon. Think about it. Its pretty much impossible. GOD pfft.

How so?

People say it's impossible for God to exist because the Bible says He was not created and that He was always there.

Then they turn around and say people were created by random chance. You ask them where the materials came from and they simply say "I don't know, they probably have been here forever." Excuses are made saying maybe aliens put the needed materials on earth. Okay, where did they come from?

Why do you care?

Because it's running from the question, that's all.

PS: I'm addicted to your avatar.

Ya, Zamullets right. I still wanna know about the damn dinosaurs!!!1!!11!

Okay I'll explain the fucking Dinosaurs. Odin Vili and Ve killed Ymir. Then millions upon mllions of years passed, all sorts of life lived and died and all that shit. Odin came down from asgard from Asgard and realised Midgard was missing some thing. Blah, Blah, Blah, in comes humanity.

There I just fucking explained the dinosaurs. Like I said, millions upon millions went by and shit lived and died (including dinosuars), then we came along because Odin was bored. There EVERYONE WINS! The religous people can stay religous, and the people wondering about dinosaurs get their answer.

I hate being a relgious Scholar. Hell I'm religious, but my fucking church is a moshpit and sermons are METAL.

Okay every one should be happy now.

Then they turn around and say people were created by random chance. You ask them where the materials came from and they simply say "I don't know, they probably have been here forever." Excuses are made saying maybe aliens put the needed materials on earth. Okay, where did they come from?

They created the building blocks for DNA (amino acids, it think) in a lab using, hydrogen and stuff, he hit it with lots of electricity, when the earth was young there was most likely a lost of lighting.

Then they turn around and say people were created by random chance. You ask them where the materials came from and they simply say "I don't know, they probably have been here forever." Excuses are made saying maybe aliens put the needed materials on earth. Okay, where did they come from?

They created the building blocks for DNA (amino acids, it think) in a lab using, hydrogen and stuff, he hit it with lots of electricity, when the earth was young there was most likely a lost of lighting.

But where did it all come from?

where did what come from?

The things, methane, hydrogen, oxygen, and nitrogen, all have been found on asteroids floating on deep space. These were formed during the big bang, the big bang, i have no idea. By saying: where did that come from, where did that come from? will eventually lead you to "I dont know" anyway.

Okay, did I just answer the dinosaur question for nothing?

The things, methane, hydrogen, oxygen, and nitrogen, all have been found on asteroids floating on deep space. These were formed during the big bang, the big bang, i have no idea. By saying: where did that come from, where did that come from? will eventually lead you to "I dont know" anyway.

That's why people make up religions. The idea that life is arbitrary and meaningless frightens some people, and it's a "good" way to explain unexplainable things while indoctrinating people, I suppose.

Where did god come from?

Spoiler for:

lol j/k idk rly

LOL

Anyway, this is an example of Christian reasoning on dinosaurs.

I just went on a christian leaders campe and it made me think about god and all that...
I have now stoped believing.
I mean c'mon. Think about it. Its pretty much impossible. GOD pfft.

How so?

People say it's impossible for God to exist because the Bible says He was not created and that He was always there.

Then they turn around and say people were created by random chance. You ask them where the materials came from and they simply say "I don't know, they probably have been here forever." Excuses are made saying maybe aliens put the needed materials on earth. Okay, where did they come from?

It made not believe because there are those people who sit around and chant and praise another god, us christians get told that this is bad and all that stuff BUT watching at this camp its excatly what we do just for our god. We sit around and pray for something that isnt there, it cannot be felt, it cannot be seen.

Another thing, They say Jesus rose, right? by rising they mean levitated upwards???
If so where did he go? because us humans have "risen" you could say, in aeroplanes and found nothing of a heaven in the clouds, we have sent cameras to outer space and found nothing of heaven in other planets.

If christians are'nt alowed to drink, persay, then why was Jesus an alcoholic lol, not really, but int he bible he turned 4 one gallon drums of water to wine which calculates to about 700 bottles of wine? Now tell me that is not silly.

I don't believe anything from after death... infact death scares me because I dont know what happens. If there is no heaven and we just go... where does our memorys go and our thoughts/minds. If there is a heaven then why, if you bring somebody back from the dead, nobody remembers it.

What makes us? how did brains, hearts, bones and all other organs get put together miraculously. Im so freaking confused. I mean we havent been able to create humans yet? So how can somebody from over 5 million years ago be able to create them.

Other thinfgs that I dont belive are stories about beasts, vampires, zombies, witches, dragons, wizards. There is no possible explinaiton for these things, its like God and whatnot, I dont believe if there is no possible explination.
There should be a explination for everything...

I believe there was a man named Jesus that died on a cross but I dont believe he was the son of "God". I think in the future we created time machines (impossible) and a guy went back in time with other gizmos from the future and preformed "miracles" and when he went to pray alone he went back to the future to get more supplies.

Another thing how come christians "God" doesn't have a name? I mean the egyptian Gods had them e.g "RAH" etc. The Greek "Gods" had "Zeus" and "Hercules" but christians are just "God"

If you are a believer then thats cool, I have got nothing agaisnt you, aslong as you're personality is great I'll be your friend. I just won't be into "God" and what not.

The things, methane, hydrogen, oxygen, and nitrogen, all have been found on asteroids floating on deep space. These were formed during the big bang, the big bang, i have no idea. By saying: where did that come from, where did that come from? will eventually lead you to "I dont know" anyway.

Exactly, so you can't say it's impossible for God to exist just because everything needs to have a begining, then turn around and say that the materials for the "big bang" were always there.

PS: @Diablo - For all we know Heaven could be at the edge of the Universe. I'm pretty sure no human has made it that far.

So, if he existed, where did god come from?

So, if he existed, where did god come from?

That's the point, you CAN'T use that arguement, because you can't answer it regarding the big bang either.

Many things in the bible are vague!
They did this so that if something comes along to disprove it, they can just say "no, uh, you read that wrong."

When Christianity first started, they did not know about dinosaurs, now they try and act like they knew about the them entire time.

They did not know that there is no heaven in space, so, now they say "It wasn't talking about literally rising, it just meant he was lifted to another place."

So, if he existed, where did god come from?

That's the point, you CAN'T use that arguement, because you can't answer it regarding the big bang either.

Who said he supports the big bang theory?

So, if he existed, where did god come from?

That's the point, you CAN'T use that arguement, because you can't answer it regarding the big bang either.

Oh so, "HEY, my explanation can't cover that! let's just ignore that!".

To be honest, the more debating I see on the subject of religion, the more baffled I am at how people can be so gullable.

I don't hold any idea, beleif or theory about how we got here, because I don't care.

Another thing how come christians "God" doesn't have a name? I mean the egyptian Gods had them e.g "RAH" etc. The Greek "Gods" had "Zeus" and "Hercules" but christians are just "God"

He does have a name, it's Jehova or Yahweh depending on what texts you read. Also I find the fact people need to be taught this from a PAGAN shows what an utter failure Chritsanity is.

Im like silverline, I hold no belief.
I dont care, I only wonder.

PS: @Diablo - For all we know Heaven could be at the edge of the Universe. I'm pretty sure no human has made it that far.

Then perhaps Jesus is still "rising" for the edge of the universe is so big!
Or about my theory that it is somebody from the future maybe he lifted off in a rocket of some sort and when got high enough returned to the future.

From Jesus Hitler:

It made not believe because there are those people who sit around and chant and praise another god, us christians get told that this is bad and all that stuff BUT watching at this camp its excatly what we do just for our god. We sit around and pray for something that isnt there, it cannot be felt, it cannot be seen.

The reason Christians are told it is wrong is because they believe that those other gods are false gods. Were you not paying attention or something?

Another thing, They say Jesus rose, right? by rising they mean levitated upwards???
If so where did he go? because us humans have "risen" you could say, in aeroplanes and found nothing of a heaven in the clouds, we have sent cameras to outer space and found nothing of heaven in other planets.

I am almost completely certain that early Christians did not believe that Heaven was literally in the sky.

If christians are'nt alowed to drink, persay, then why was Jesus an alcoholic lol, not really, but int he bible he turned 4 one gallon drums of water to wine which calculates to about 700 bottles of wine? Now tell me that is not silly.

Since when are Christians not allowed to drink? Stop applying the beliefs of a tiny minority (teetotalers) to everyone.

If there is a heaven then why, if you bring somebody back from the dead, nobody remembers it.

There are many people who report going to a mystical realm while technically dead. However, these people are not "brought back to life", merely revived.

What makes us? how did brains, hearts, bones and all other organs get put together miraculously. Im so freaking confused. I mean we havent been able to create humans yet? So how can somebody from over 5 million years ago be able to create them.

1) It's called evolution.
2) We've been creating humans since, well, there were humans.
3) God is supposed to have created the universe 6ooo years ago, not five million. Did you pull that number out of your ass or what?

Other thinfgs that I dont belive are stories about beasts, vampires, zombies, witches, dragons, wizards.

Are you shitting me?

There is no possible explinaiton for these things, its like God and whatnot, I dont believe if there is no possible explination.
There should be a explination for everything...

You're acting just like Christians who reject evolution by saying "I don't understand it, so it must be crap!"

I believe there was a man named Jesus that died on a cross
 but I dont believe he was the son of "God".

Why? There's like two slim pieces of proof that Jesus was real and one of them might be fake. And why did you put "God" in quotes?

I think in the future we created time machines (impossible) and a guy went back in time with other gizmos from the future and preformed "miracles" and when he went to pray alone he went back to the future to get more supplies.

That's probably one of the dumbest things I've ever read and for a man who is screaming about how ridiculous Christianity is you've come up with a theory even sillier.

Another thing how come christians "God" doesn't have a name? I mean the egyptian Gods had them e.g "RAH" etc. The Greek "Gods" had "Zeus" and "Hercules" but christians are just "God"

You are fucking retarded.

EDIT: By the way, if you're going to criticize Christians for using a generic name then you should do the same for Muslims, since "Allah" has the same meaning in Arabic.

Oh, and it's spelled "Ra".

If you are a believer then thats cool, I have got nothing agaisnt you, aslong as you're personality is great I'll be your friend. I just won't be into "God" and what not.

Do you not know how to use quotes?

I'm officially dropping out of the debate.

Have fun guys.

See you around tsuno. Actually I'm prolly leaving this debate too, Seriously, I've tried to contribute o the topic and all people seem concered with is that LOS keeps inserting his foot into his mouth.