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So when America Attacks Northern Korea, what will you think ?

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I think the war will happen in around about 2.5 years when the Oil runs low in America and England:- http://dieoff.org/page140.htm
The decline will happen before 2010, but its already getting thin now...

War for oil can never happen with North Korea unless there is some kind of oil producing infrastructure in the country, which there isn't. In fact, the latest I've heard about it is that there might be some oil somewhere in the country, and that as of 2004 a company was scouting for it. The same thing can be said for every other country with sea borders.

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And for those of you that think the War is not about Oil:- http://www.lewrockwell.com/rockwell/warforoil.html

1) Well god forbid someone might have had an ulterior motive in invading Afghanistan. It's not as if Al-Qaeda was based in the fucking country or something.
2) This has nothing to do with North Korea.

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Now Korea is said to have LOADS of Resurves:- http://www.kimsoft.com/1997/nk-oil3.htm

I believe it's been said again and again that that site is utterly worthless and can't be depended on to provide any useful information.

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Ultra Santa - I was not comparing the American way of life, more so Bush to Kim... They are nearly as bad as each other... Bush is just as much a head-case as Kim...

No he isn't you retard.

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I know Korea is by far one of the worst places in the world to be at the moment:- http://www.state.gov/p/eap/rls/rm/2003/21269.htm

You didn't know that a few pots ago, when you made NK sound like Seattle.

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But I am more questioning Bush's Approach to this situation... I don't the think dropping bombs of the Public of Korea will help things much... I doubt a Ground invasion will happen, USA threatening to attack will cause Korea to respond by counter threats...

What approach? I don't think the US will be invading anytime soon. The North Koreans have mastered STFUing and it's not like we'll be able to expend any resources for war after the Iraqi insurgents finish mopping up our "boys" who are heroically wasting their lives.
« Last Edit: January 02, 2007, 02:05:40 PM by Ultra Santa »

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No he isn't you retard.
- Why attack me for my Opinions Retard is Being Slow... I am far from that... unlike Bush:-

Animal Sex


Is his face Latex ?


Do these have Night Vision he asks ?


If any one is a Retard its Bush... And Bush is make some darn right nasty weapons... And when the Flood hit your coasts what did Bush do, did he send help... Nah... he sent tour buses... May be if the mass population of that area just so happened to be white he may have sent rescue teams... Sorry but I think Bush is a clot...
 


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Why don't you respond to anything else in my post? Do you think that developing some "right nasty weapons" (as if he were a fucking mad scientist) makes him as bad as Kim Jong-Il? Does his irresponsibility make him as bad as Kim Jong-Il? George Bush is a bad president, nothing more.

You should be shot for every "funny" picture of Bush you've posted. That middle one count six times.

Oh, and why don't you respond to anything else in my post?

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Oh, and why don't you respond to anything else in my post?

Sorry I didn't see the rule that I had to...  ;8  ::)  ;8

But if you want me to...

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War for oil can never happen with North Korea unless there is some kind of oil producing infrastructure in the country, which there isn't. In fact, the latest I've heard about it is that there might be some oil somewhere in the country, and that as of 2004 a company was scouting for it. The same thing can be said for every other country with sea borders.

Well When The USA over throw Kim then they can scout the land and set a new deal with the new leader, Food for Oil should they find what RESEARCHERS are saying to be True... Also North Korea has a stock pile greater than 14 million Barrels of oil any way... now that could fuel England for some time... so you guys will no doubt get our backing...

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1) Well god forbid someone might have had an ulterior motive in invading Afghanistan. It's not as if Al-Qaeda was based in the fucking country or something.
2) This has nothing to do with North Korea.

1. Well then thats kind of a war on religion... in a way if its not for oil then is it effnic cleansing, I bet Bush would nuke the whole of the Arab world if he could get away with it...

2. It does if the country is rich in Oil or has 13 million barrels just sitting there:- http://www.hartford-hwp.com/archives/55a/161.html (Another link, not the same as the one in the prior list)

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I believe it's been said again and again that that site is utterly worthless and can't be depended on to provide any useful information.

See 2. Above

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You didn't know that a few pots ago, when you made NK sound like Seattle.

Have you watched the Film BIG, when Tom Hanks stops in a motel, and he is watching a TV show and people are being shot, he turns off the TV and the sounds are the same outside... Most world leaders would try and put a stop to this... But hold on, it's not happening in a white neighbourhood so who care's ?... Not Bush... or his Cabinet... So may be some of the area's of USA are no safer than area's of a 3rd world country... I can only go by what I read or watch on TV...

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What approach? I don't think the US will be invading anytime soon. The North Koreans have mastered STFUing and it's not like we'll be able to expend any resources for war after the Iraqi insurgents finish mopping up our "boys" who are heroically wasting their lives.

See this link:- http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/10/09/AR2006100900419.html?nav=rss_world/asia

Now USA has helped stop any imports and exports from China to north Korea, even some food has been stopped making the problems in North Korea worst... Thats what the USA does, makes things Worst, then says "Oh, look at all that suffering, Lets stopping it by blowing the shit out of it"... Like when they left Saddam in control after the Gulf War and left him with strict weapons rules to adhere to knowing full well he was still in possetion of Skuds...

You have admitted Bush made a mistake with Iraq and now most American's also see his Error, but I bet when the war 1st kicked off pretty much all Americans had been fully behind him... Don't you think you/many American's may be wrong this time also...?
(Your only seeing what your goverment wants you to see)

I compare the two, as I can't think of many world leaders except Hitler who has invaded/planned to invade so many countries in such little time... (modern times)

Nobody does some thing for nothing, what has the USA got to gain from this ?

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You should be shot for every "funny" picture of Bush you've posted. That middle one count six times.

Ah... thats so Very American of you... LOL (Sorry to all you none crazy gun nutty American's who may read this)

Are you by any chance Jesus Hitler...? your the same sort of Brain washed monkey if your not LOL
(You use the same amount of negativity in your posts and Swear or attack to push your opinions, your a very hostile sort of person)


« Last Edit: January 02, 2007, 04:10:19 PM by landofshadows »
 


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I'm back :P
ok to back myself up, i dont believe they wud instantly have a war just for oil. maybe make an agreement. you may not think its true, but i dont think the usa will take over everything because theyre strong enough, thats stupid.

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So about that money...
This thing is going in circles....

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Yeah it is a bit... I don't see why a war for oil is stupid...

Think what happens if we have no oil... how would it effect your life...?

Then think well if we run out then what...

Then think if I was a world leader what would I do...

And then you get to the point that I am at...

No Oil = No Heating, No Electric, No Fuel
Effect = We become almost a 3rd world country, and we will have to bargin with 3rd world countries
If I was a World leader = Rob the 3rd world countries before it obvious what I am up to, or develope a new fuel source... But if I am a really good leader I would do both... and thats what they are doing

Us now leaching Iraq's Oil fields:- http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/2890793.stm

Just look up Oil supplies for the western world on google see what you find...

Here's a link:- http://www.guardian.co.uk/oil/story/0,,1885478,00.html

Its happening already and our goverments are trying to slow it down... Who ever owns the main area's of Oil will be the richest country going... I don't think the USA want that country to be Iraq... And what the reports say about Korea's land holding so much oil and the fact they are holding 13 million barrels+ that makes them a nice Red Target... (And the fact they also have a pretty evil dictator)... All Bush needs is a little more backing and support or Kim to do some thing stupid and then Blam... Oil war number 2...

Thats what i think and so do a few others... do Research into oil... and how long predictions of Englands and the USA's Supply will last... I think you will start tro see a bigger picture...

So when America Attacks Korea I will think "could this be all over their Oil ?"
« Last Edit: January 03, 2007, 08:50:23 AM by landofshadows »
 


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Well When
1. Well then thats kind of a war on religion... in a way if its not for oil then is it effnic cleansing, I bet Bush would nuke the whole of the Arab world if he could get away with it...
War on religion? What the fuck? Dude, al-Qaeda is an international terrorist organisation with quite a track record. And no, no he wouldn't. If only because the fallout'd be nasty.

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2. It does if the country is rich in Oil or has 13 million barrels just sitting there:- http://www.hartford-hwp.com/archives/55a/161.html (Another link, not the same as the one in the prior list)
I'M GETTING DIZZY FROM CIRCLES AND CIRCLES AND MOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOORE CIRCLES!

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Have you watched the Film BIG, when Tom Hanks stops in a motel, and he is watching a TV show and people are being shot, he turns off the TV and the sounds are the same outside... Most world leaders would try and put a stop to this... But hold on, it's not happening in a white neighbourhood so who care's ?... Not Bush... or his Cabinet... So may be some of the area's of USA are no safer than area's of a 3rd world country... I can only go by what I read or watch on TV...
...If I told you that this is a totally messed up, false perception, would you believe me? Or should I go more in-depth?

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Now USA has helped stop any imports and exports from China to north Korea, even some food has been stopped making the problems in North Korea worst...
What? An EMBARGO? On an enemy state? THE US IS EVIL!

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You have admitted Bush made a mistake with Iraq and now most American's also see his Error, but I bet when the war 1st kicked off pretty much all Americans had been fully behind him... Don't you think you/many American's may be wrong this time also...?
(Your only seeing what your goverment wants you to see)
Actually, plenty of Americans were against the invasion. As I have said. Several times.

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I compare the two, as I can't think of many world leaders except Hitler who has invaded/planned to invade so many countries in such little time... (modern times)
Bush ~= Hitler ~= Stalin ~= Mao Zedung ~=...

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Nobody does some thing for nothing, what has the USA got to gain from this ?
Eliminates an enemy state and replaces it with a nice friendly one to pick flowers with and play dress up?

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Ah... thats so Very American of you... LOL (Sorry to all you none crazy gun nutty American's who may read this)
...

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Are you by any chance Jesus Hitler...? your the same sort of Brain washed monkey if your not LOL
Actually he's an acquantaince of ours with quite an obsession with Jesus Hitler. The rumour mill flies with tales of homoerotic IM conversations, but I didn't tell you that!
Quote from: Elegy
It's fucking sad that you and the cat can't stick to the subject and even attempt to defend your little bullshit religion without jumping to personal attacks, maybe thats because evolution is such a stupid idea it's hard to back it up with any claims pertaining to reality.

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LOS, you are so full of shit. You've come up with the dumbest arguments possible to support your ridiculous conspiracy theories and as soon as I went on sabbatical you trotted them out again after I so thoroughly smashed them and now you're acting even more ridiculous by ignoring the majority of my post and calling me a brainwashed monkey. You are the one who is acting brainwashed by ignoring everything that doesn't fit into your worldview and using ridiculous arguments and evidence which amounts to nothing to support your claims. SOrry to burst your bubble, but (as I and others have said before) America is not a homogeneous nation of Ted Nugents and Charleton Hestons who crave blood, nor are we hypnotized zombies who are completely submissive to the State. You are a caricature of an America-hating European and you hurt every anti-war cause there is just by opening your mouth.

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America is not a homogeneous nation of Ted Nugents and Charleton Hestons who crave blood

Did you or did you not say I should be shot at least 6 times... Thats pretty Blood crazy to me... (Shooting some one doesn't even come to mind when I think I hurting some one, Most statements I read or films I watch, like American History X, results in some one being shot)

I will think what I like... I don't care how many times you say otherwise... There is a larger agender than liberating Korea... And if you think it's got some thing to do with their nearly half decent nuke test, then your wrong...

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North Korea was a member of the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty, but announced a withdrawal on January 10, 2003 and did so that April. In February 2005 they claimed to possess functional nuclear weapons, though their lack of a test at the time led many experts to doubt the claim. However, in October 2006, North Korea stated that due to growing intimidation by the USA, it would conduct a nuclear test to confirm its nuclear status. North Korea reported a successful nuclear test on October 9, 2006. Most U.S. intelligence officials believe that North Korea did, in fact, test a nuclear device due to radioactive isotopes detected by U.S. aircraft; however, most agree that the test was probably only partially successful, having less than a kiloton in yield.[17]

Quote from here:- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_states_with_nuclear_weapons

I know Kim has Nukes and may be he has better ones than the one he tested... But I doubt he will ever use them, Unless he is intimidated further...

To think the only reason why we want to act, is to liberate his people would be narrow minded... He has treated his people as such for years, why wait until now...? And there are more people getting killed right now in China in the coal mines (3per day) than there is in Korea starving... Why not liberate them...? or stop the Genocide of the Tootsie tribes and so fourth... there are many other contries in far worst hardship than those starving in Korea... There's more Rat Children in India Starving than those in North Korea...

Yeah I know things will eventually get worst in North Korea as supplies and food is getting EXTREAMLY low... But they still have fertile land and forest area's, they can raise cattle and grow food, unlike some countries...

What I am saying is Starvation is happening world over and we give them aid... it happens in Korea we stop giving aid and then choose to threaten to invade... Why...?

Cuz they have a Nukes and missles... Who the heck doesn't have a nucular program of sorts... even Switzerland could start one up... You can buy Nukes from other countries whilling to sell:- http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/03/15/opinion/fenton/main606229.shtml

It's all a load of bollox... So I have got many a ground to base my views on... I am sorry if they clash with yours...

Say if I am wrong though... (In a fairy tale world)... And oil is not the agender then what is...?  (May be, just may be, Bin Larden is hidding there)...
« Last Edit: January 03, 2007, 11:44:02 AM by landofshadows »
 


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America is not a homogeneous nation of Ted Nugents and Charleton Hestons who crave blood

Did you or did you not say I should be shot at least 6 times... Thats pretty Blood crazy to me... (Shooting some one doesn't even come to mind when I think I hurting some one, Most statements I read or films I watch, like American History X, results in some one being shot)

I will think what I like... I don't care how many times you say otherwise... There is a larger agender than liberating Korea... And if you think it's got some thing to do with their nearly half decent nuke test, then your wrong...

I love how you ignore the rest of the post and the part of an older post where I said that there was no way in hell North Korea was going to be invaded.

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Wikipedia quote

Quote from here:- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_states_with_nuclear_weapons

I know Kim has Nukes and may be he has better ones than the one he tested... But I doubt he will ever use them, Unless he is intimidated further...

To think the only reason why we want to act, is to liberate his people would be narrow minded... He has treated his people as such for years, why wait until now...? And there are more people getting killed right now in China in the coal mines (3per day) than there is in Korea starving... Why not liberate them...? or stop the Genocide of the Tootsie tribes and so fourth... there are many other contries in far worst hardship than those starving in Korea... There's more Rat Children in India Starving than those in North Korea...

I've said that China is a hellhole which just barely rises above North Korea before, and do you really think only three people are dying from malnutrition in China or North Korea every day? The reason why NK should be done away with is that South Korea is the same country, only prosperous and free, which makes it obvious that the people in the north would actually benefit from a change in government (a reunification with the south) whereas the problems in Rwanda (I'm guessing that you meant to write "Tutsi" and that Tootsie Rollss are not named after an ethnic group) don't stem from a dysfunctional government and can't be solved in the same way.

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Yeah I know things will eventually get worst in North Korea as supplies and food is getting EXTREAMLY low... But they still have fertile land and forest area's, they can raise cattle and grow food, unlike some countries...

They're getting enough food right now, but it's all taken by the government and saved for the army.

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What I am saying is Starvation is happening world over and we give them aid... it happens in Korea we stop giving aid and then choose to threaten to invade... Why...?

Because, as so many have said, none of the aid actually gets to the people who need it.

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Who the heck doesn't have a nucular program of sorts... even Switzerland could start one up..,

Most countries don't have nuclear programs.

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Most countries don't have nuclear programs.

Did you read the Link ? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_states_with_nuclear_weapons

The people in Korea that are not getting the food are the people living in the hills and border towns and shanty like houses... The same sort of people that are not contributing to the countries growth... If I was a leader of a country going down hill I would feed those who are working before I feed those that are not, and no doubt adding to the countries decline... I know that sound barbaric... but its the truth in any county faced by the same situation... The Army is all they have left and thats under threat... What are their other options...

Feed the Army the bare minimum and give the the other share to those that don't work or earn money to get their own... Have a whole nation running on empty stomachs and fear an attack from a neighbouring state or Western enemy or keep your gaurd up high... All what needs to be done is increase the Aid, drop the threats, North Korea has a member in the UN's Council, Slowly encourage a safe Nucular power scheme for Kim help Developemnt rather than cut it back all he wants is what any country would want an equal standing in power to defend its people from those with weapons...

Like you American's Your Robbers pretty much all carry guns so you want the right to own your own for defence...

With an Army as good as Kim's why not have Nukes after all he has one of the best Amries in the world... (in the top ten)... He wont use it, and I doubt he will abuse it... And if he does then there's a GOOD reason to have a War...

What Korea needs is some sort of Assylum Process, a vetting process to take those skilled and able boddied but un suited to his land and place them in area's that need good workers, heck the Red cross could set some thing up and have those in Korea as Voulntry workers place them around the world giving them food and shelter and no pay, it would be a better life until they get a Visa in another country and settle there, or marry in...

May be I am not seeing things the same here as the rest of you... May be I don't have the full picture... I read 60,000 have died in the last 17 years... thats about 9 a day, but not all are from Starvation some are from untreated injuries and accidents (Un-timely deaths) reported by the Agency Good Friends... Approximately a 3rd are due to starvation they stated... Weather conditions and housing kills almost as many, land slides and flooding of hut like housing... Poor medical aid and help to those outside the main providence...

The Death Toll of Tutsi's is an Estimated Death Toll of 616,000 Thats 10 times worst... and its over a smaller time scale...

In comparrison to other countries on the sites I have looked at it's all small in scale...

Some states for interest on the USA:-

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In 1999, there were 28,874 gun-related deaths in the United States - over 80 deaths every day. (Source: Hoyert DL, Arias E, Smith BL, Murphy SL, Kochanek, KD.  Deaths: Final Data for 1999. National Vital Statistics Reports. 2001;49 (8).)

4% of 100,000 people in America are killed by a Gun, either by them selves or another each year... Thats a worst Epidemic than the starvation in North Korea...

Every country has states it doesn't like and those states can be pinned on the countries leader or just the way the people and times are... If America's gun laws are tighter or if Bullets Costed $100 each then may be this would not happen... Easy Fix... So why hasn't it been done ?... May be its your countries leaders fault, but I don't see any one wanting to invade and topple him...

Like here in England we have the highest rate of teen pregnantcy... and our leaders are not doing much about it apart from giving free housing and support after, there by fueling it rather than helping, is that promoting underage sex... and up sexual diesease... Should our Official on Education face the brunt of it...? or is it just the girls here are sluts...? people are people made by the media and role models they follow...

Those in Korea Starving are those that don't work... one day all countries may face the same issue... do we feed those that work or don't work...?

This world can't support the forever growing population for ever... We should learn from Korea what we can... Not saying its right buts its a forced and economic situation and its being delt with by some one that has more control and dedication of his people than any other country... I respect Kim, and North Koreans dedication to their leader (those that are working and helping growth)... and the fact they don't help those that don't help them selves... its a Brave and firm choice... Not that I back death of inocents and I know they don't deserve to die... We have the power to stop that, send in troops with the Aid for the people that need it, send the troops through South Korea...

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War on religion? What the fuck? Dude, al-Qaeda is an international terrorist organisation with quite a track record. And no, no he wouldn't. If only because the fallout'd be nasty.

Yeah... So what was the point in the Iraq war then...? You still aint found Bin Larden, Al-Qaeda is winning... and you know what I said at the start of that war this would happen... its like when England tried to take America all those years ago... Never try and fight your enemy on their terms... it doesn't work... Its like a Bear jumping into the sea to kill a Shark, or Visa Versa... (A Shark Jumping from the Sea to kill a Bear)... The way to have won this War would have been to make large drilling heads on Bombs that burrow 20 meters then Detonate and drop about 500 of them in one air strike on the Tora-Bora Mountains... Not to bomb the populuse and walk about the streets that we made victims... There's a Good chance even Cizillians would take pot shots, and other factions other than the on targeted... MENTAL
« Last Edit: January 03, 2007, 02:37:58 PM by landofshadows »
 


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Did you or did you not say I should be shot at least 6 times... Thats pretty Blood crazy to me... (Shooting some one doesn't even come to mind when I think I hurting some one, Most statements I read or films I watch, like American History X, results in some one being shot)
...He doesn't actually care if you're shot or not, you know.

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To think the only reason why we want to act, is to liberate his people would be narrow minded... He has treated his people as such for years, why wait until now...? And there are more people getting killed right now in China in the coal mines (3per day) than there is in Korea starving... Why not liberate them...? or stop the Genocide of the Tootsie tribes and so fourth... there are many other contries in far worst hardship than those starving in Korea... There's more Rat Children in India Starving than those in North Korea...
You're right! We have more than one reason! We don't want to invade them as a war of liberation! We want to invade them to disarm a hostile, isolationist state that is a threat not only to us but some of our closest allies- South Korea and Japan.

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Yeah I know things will eventually get worst in North Korea as supplies and food is getting EXTREAMLY low... But they still have fertile land and forest area's, they can raise cattle and grow food, unlike some countries...
Yeah, but they're not using it. They don't even have the money to buy farming tools.

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What I am saying is Starvation is happening world over and we give them aid... it happens in Korea we stop giving aid and then choose to threaten to invade... Why...?
I live in a fairy tale world, too. In it, sending aid to poor countries helps the poor and starving and leads to wealthy nations.


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Did you read the Link ? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_states_with_nuclear_weapons
So 9 out of 200 countries is most?
And most of these countries are generally peaceable folk, unlike North Korea.

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If I was a leader of a country going down hill I would feed those who are working before I feed those that are not, and no doubt adding to the countries decline... I know that sound barbaric... but its the truth in any county faced by the same situation... The Army is all they have left and thats under threat... What are their other options...
There isn't that much work in North Korea, and most of the people are unskilled. It needs a good, humanitarian government; foreign investment; a liberal economic policy; etc.

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All what needs to be done is increase the Aid, drop the threats, North Korea has a member in the UN's Council, Slowly encourage a safe Nucular power scheme for Kim help Developemnt rather than cut it back all he wants is what any country would want an equal standing in power to defend its people from those with weapons...
That will help none.

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What Korea needs is some sort of Assylum Process, a vetting process to take those skilled and able boddied but un suited to his land and place them in area's that need good workers, heck the Red cross could set some thing up and have those in Korea as Voulntry workers place them around the world giving them food and shelter and no pay, it would be a better life until they get a Visa in another country and settle there, or marry in...
Kim Jong-il would never consent to this.

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I read 60,000 have died in the last 17 years...
And you believe this? That only 60,000 have died in North Korea in the last 17 years? That is perhaps the most naive thing I have ever heard.


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Every country has states it doesn't like and those states can be pinned on the countries leader or just the way the people and times are... If America's gun laws are tighter or if Bullets Costed $100 each then may be this would not happen... Easy Fix... So why hasn't it been done ?... May be its your countries leaders fault, but I don't see any one wanting to invade and topple him...
I don't think we need to get in a guns debate here, but I can assure you that illegitimising guns will not alleviate matters.

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Like here in England we have the highest rate of teen pregnantcy... and our leaders are not doing much about it apart from giving free housing and support after, there by fueling it rather than helping, is that promoting underage sex... and up sexual diesease...
Teenagers have every right to engage in sexual activities with each other, assuming full consent on both (or more?) sides. Whether or not their parents, you, or the Puritans agree is irrelevant to governmental policy.

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This world can't support the forever growing population for ever... We should learn from Korea what we can...
Yes, you're right. We should ration food, drinkable water, oil, and other resources. Sure, the death toll will be in billions but at least we'll have plenty of resources for our sickly children! :D

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We have the power to stop that, send in troops with the Aid for the people that need it, send the troops through South Korea...
The North Korean government will be ill-pleased with foreign troops in his borders, for any purpose.

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Yeah... So what was the point in the Iraq war then...? You still aint found Bin Larden, Al-Qaeda is winning...
al-Qaeda was in Afghanistan, not Iraq. The war in Iraq was fought/is being fought due to a variety of reasons, such as Saddam Hussein, and yes OIL, the WMDs that turned out not to be there (nonetheless, they were believed to be at the time, so whether or not they were in actuality there is irrelevant to the reasons for the war), etc.

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Never try and fight your enemy on their terms... it doesn't work...
Oh shit, you've been reading about Vietnam haven't you!?

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The way to have won this War would have been to make large drilling heads on Bombs that burrow 20 meters then Detonate and drop about 500 of them in one air strike on the Tora-Bora Mountains... Not to bomb the populuse and walk about the streets that we made victims... There's a Good chance even Cizillians would take pot shots, and other factions other than the on targeted... MENTAL
...
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...He doesn't actually care if you're shot or not, you know.

Yeah, he is no doubt the sort of kid that walks into a school Matrix style... Heck may be you and Jesus Hitler could form a little mini death squad...  :police:  ;D

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And you believe this? That only 60,000 have died in North Korea in the last 17 years? That is perhaps the most naive thing I have ever heard.

It's the only info I can find... the figures are not public... These are figures I found from the Charity helping in the slum like area's, those worst effected... The Charity is saying things are extreamly bad, they are looking at a small area... so those figures are pretty high on the percentage of people being looked at... (Its 60,000 dead from poor living conditions IE Medical aid, Food, Adverse weather etc...)

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We want to invade them to disarm a hostile, isolationist state that is a threat not only to us but some of our closest allies- South Korea and Japan.

OK say you Disarm them... Close down the Nucular program etc... Thats one less Nuke on the planet... I bet doing so you kill a couple of thousand Korea Soilders and they kill a few hundred Americans... If his other Nukes are as small a Yeld as the one tested I doubt it would cause that much deverstation, I bet it wouldn't even reach its target... I think you could be walking into another Iraq like situation, as the invation starts He will disarm and destroy all related material, if he has any... there is no proof he has more Nukes... And the one he did have he could have purchased off the black market, or slowly got the parts from China many years ago... Nobody knows if he is a threat or not at this stage... He is a Bloke waving a gun, that may be empty... Get better info before attacking thats all I really mean... else this will turn into another Iraq...

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Yeah, but they're not using it. They don't even have the money to buy farming tools.

May be you should try going on a Holiday to North Korea:- http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/3113352.stm

It's Actually not all that bad a city and the people are Super friendly... they love their Leader...

North Korea Farming Photo's



I know the land is hard farm to due to Policy and % land that's arable... The Real issue of starvation is only now more real from the point NK disclosed they had Nukes:- http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/4072280.stm China and South Korea have stopped giving aid... It's Not just the Western world that was helping with Aid, the main sources have stopped... there is more people now starving in North Korea, thats why North Korea is now open to Holiday makers and Tourists to boost funds... more and more people are going... There is no easy solution apart from Kim to give up his Nukes any way, and allow the UN in... He may just do that should things start getting as bad as you and the news is suggesting... but so far they is no offical death toll from North Korea... Only Estimates, and the ones I found are the only ones to get published... So I don't know what your seeing in relation to my findings being greatly lower than your own... News Reports say Millions COULD starve... not that they are starving...

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So 9 out of 200 countries is most?
And most of these countries are generally peaceable folk, unlike North Korea.

Scroll down, it shows those with Nucular programs and those caple of Nucular power... (It's no place near 200... but is a fair few... in Africa had Nucular power)

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There isn't that much work in North Korea, and most of the people are unskilled

Some people are making a very health living in North Korea, there is a fair amount of work there, but your right the level of skilled workers is low... and to get a job there you need to be skilled and have a good education (of sorts)... What I am saying is if your born poor there you will die poor there, it's not really the land of oppertunity, and those wanting to flee are those that have nothing or nothing to offer North Korea...

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Yes, you're right. We should ration food, drinkable water, oil, and other resources. Sure, the death toll will be in billions but at least we'll have plenty of resources for our sickly children!

You know what I mean... don't be a tit... I am saying one day every country will have to face a simular situation, and what then...? do we feed the disabled, the elderly or the children...? (I am saying its a hard choice to make, and a brave one)

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I don't think we need to get in a guns debate here, but I can assure you that illegitimising guns will not alleviate matters.

I am trying to point out LOADS of people die in America due to poor Laws on Guns... May be more people die a gun related death in America than those from starvation in Korea... on average 87 people in a America per day get shot and a good rate of those die... If a Bullets cost $100 each (to the public) then would it still happen ? (Make you think before doing a drive by I guess)- And if shops only sold them in packets of Ten... It would make people use them in Extream conditions...

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Kim Jong-il would never consent to this.

He might if they become X-communicated from Korea, and not allowed to return... and if he got paid a certain amount for each removed, like a Tax return from their wage of a few pence on every pound once they are earning...

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The North Korean government will be ill-pleased with foreign troops in his borders, for any purpose.

Yeah not the best idea in the world... It would have to be a gradual build up of trust...

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The war in Iraq was fought/is being fought due to a variety of reasons, such as Saddam Hussein, and yes OIL, the WMDs that turned out not to be there (nonetheless, they were believed to be at the time, so whether or not they were in actuality there is irrelevant to the reasons for the war), etc.

There was a report saying there is no real threat, and that was taken out of the final version, there was area's that COULD have housed Weapons... thats all the report said... Just like Korea COULD have more Nukes...

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Oh shit, you've been reading about Vietnam haven't you!?

That War was a Slaughter... The war claimed perhaps 2-2.5 million Southeast Asian lives, a large number of whom were civilians.



Yeah... lets repeat that all over again...

You do know that what happend in Vietnam lead to one of the Uglyest bits of history ever... North Vietnam followed up its southern victory by first making Laos a virtual puppet state. Socialist fraternalism did not last long. The Khmer Rouge, who had historical territorial ambitions in Vietnam, began a series of border incursions that finally led to a Vietnamese invasion. The VPA onslaught overthrew Pol Pot's murderous regime and a pro-Vietnamese government was installed (see Third Indochina War). The U.S. did not recognise the new government of Cambodia, and, along with the United Nations, continued to consider the Khmer Rouge (perpetrators of the greatest genocide since the Second world War) as their ally. In 1979 the Chinese, furious with the Vietnamese for eliminating their Khmer Rouge allies, launched an invasion of Vietnam's northern provinces. After fighting to a stalemate, the Chinese withdrew.

So was Victory or not...?





« Last Edit: January 04, 2007, 10:50:28 AM by landofshadows »
 


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...He doesn't actually care if you're shot or not, you know.

Yeah, he is no doubt the sort of kid that walks into a school Matrix style... Heck may be you and Jesus Hitler could form a little mini death squad...  :police:  ;D

Fuck you.

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We want to invade them to disarm a hostile, isolationist state that is a threat not only to us but some of our closest allies- South Korea and Japan.

OK say you Disarm them... Close down the Nucular program etc... Thats one less Nuke on the planet... I bet doing so you kill a couple of thousand Korea Soilders and they kill a few hundred Americans... If his other Nukes are as small a Yeld as the one tested I doubt it would cause that much deverstation, I bet it wouldn't even reach its target... I think you could be walking into another Iraq like situation, as the invation starts He will disarm and destroy all related material, if he has any... there is no proof he has more Nukes... And the one he did have he could have purchased off the black market, or slowly got the parts from China many years ago... Nobody knows if he is a threat or not at this stage... He is a Bloke waving a gun, that may be empty... Get better info before attacking thats all I really mean... else this will turn into another Iraq...

Stop comparing an invasion of NK to the invasion of Iraq because they're two totally different situations and we've said this again and again. The Chinese would never give NK a nuclear weapon.

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Yeah, but they're not using it. They don't even have the money to buy farming tools.

May be you should try going on a Holiday to North Korea:- http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/3113352.stm

It's Actually not all that bad a city and the people are Super friendly... they love their Leader...


No shit the people in Pyongyang are friendly, the whole city is a Potemkin village.

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I know the land is hard farm to due to Policy and % land that's arable... The Real issue of starvation is only now more real from the point NK disclosed they had Nukes:- http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/4072280.stm China and South Korea have stopped giving aid... It's Not just the Western world that was helping with Aid, the main sources have stopped... there is more people now starving in North Korea, thats why North Korea is now open to Holiday makers and Tourists to boost funds... more and more people are going... There is no easy solution apart from Kim to give up his Nukes any way, and allow the UN in... He may just do that should things start getting as bad as you and the news is suggesting... but so far they is no offical death toll from North Korea... Only Estimates, and the ones I found are the only ones to get published... So I don't know what your seeing in relation to my findings being greatly lower than your own... News Reports say Millions COULD starve... not that they are starving...

Tourism, foreign aid, death toll... what?

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So 9 out of 200 countries is most?
And most of these countries are generally peaceable folk, unlike North Korea.

Scroll down, it shows those with Nucular programs and those caple of Nucular power... (It's no place near 200... but is a fair few... in Africa had Nucular power)

That doesn't mean shit.

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There isn't that much work in North Korea, and most of the people are unskilled

Some people are making a very health living in North Korea, there is a fair amount of work there, but your right the level of skilled workers is low... and to get a job there you need to be skilled and have a good education (of sorts)... What I am saying is if your born poor there you will die poor there, it's not really the land of oppertunity, and those wanting to flee are those that have nothing or nothing to offer North Korea...

The people who are living well in NK are in the army or in the government.

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Yes, you're right. We should ration food, drinkable water, oil, and other resources. Sure, the death toll will be in billions but at least we'll have plenty of resources for our sickly children!

You know what I mean... don't be a tit... I am saying one day every country will have to face a simular situation, and what then...? do we feed the disabled, the elderly or the children...? (I am saying its a hard choice to make, and a brave one)

Not true. Any country can stabilize its population size.

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I don't think we need to get in a guns debate here, but I can assure you that illegitimising guns will not alleviate matters.

I am trying to point out LOADS of people die in America due to poor Laws on Guns... May be more people die a gun related death in America than those from starvation in Korea... on average 87 people in a America per day get shot and a good rate of those die... If a Bullets cost $100 each (to the public) then would it still happen ? (Make you think before doing a drive by I guess)- And if shops only sold them in packets of Ten... It would make people use them in Extream conditions...

You should also point out that America is HUGE and 87 people a day in a country of 300 million isn't that much. If bullets were $100 each all that would happen is a new black market would open up and bullets would pour into the country, thanks to, you know, that porous border we share with Mexico.

By the way, drive-bys are not the cause of mot gunshot deaths.

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The war in Iraq was fought/is being fought due to a variety of reasons, such as Saddam Hussein, and yes OIL, the WMDs that turned out not to be there (nonetheless, they were believed to be at the time, so whether or not they were in actuality there is irrelevant to the reasons for the war), etc.

There was a report saying there is no real threat, and that was taken out of the final version, there was area's that COULD have housed Weapons... thats all the report said... Just like Korea COULD have more Nukes...

The difference being that Korea says it will make more nuclear weapons and will use said weapons if they went to war.

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So was Victory or not...?

Okay, first of all you need to top copying text from other sites and putting them in your posts as if you wrote them. Second, nobody says the Vietnam War was a victory.
« Last Edit: January 04, 2007, 12:37:59 PM by Ultra Santa »

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It's the only info I can find... the figures are not public... These are figures I found from the Charity helping in the slum like area's, those worst effected... The Charity is saying things are extreamly bad, they are looking at a small area... so those figures are pretty high on the percentage of people being looked at... (Its 60,000 dead from poor living conditions IE Medical aid, Food, Adverse weather etc...)
Yes, my apologies, I meant only that number from those circumstances (not in general). But, of course, data gathering by any party in that country will be difficult. Given the situation there, 60,000 people in the course of only 17 years... doesn't sound very realistic.

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OK say you Disarm them... Close down the Nucular program etc... Thats one less Nuke on the planet... I bet doing so you kill a couple of thousand Korea Soilders and they kill a few hundred Americans...
Actually, my main concern isn't the nuclear weapons. It's the heavy artillery pointed at Seoul, and things of that sort.


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May be you should try going on a Holiday to North Korea:- http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/3113352.stm
...

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It's Actually not all that bad a city and the people are Super friendly... they love their Leader...
They're indoctrinated into believing North Korea is a nation like no other in greatness, of course they do.

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North Korea Farming Photo's
This proves what? I want to see agricultural productivity rates go up, not pictures of the rare North Korean with a decent farming tool.

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You know what I mean... don't be a tit...
Actually I didn't.

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I am trying to point out LOADS of people die in America due to poor Laws on Guns... May be more people die a gun related death in America than those from starvation in Korea... on average 87 people in a America per day get shot and a good rate of those die... If a Bullets cost $100 each (to the public) then would it still happen ? (Make you think before doing a drive by I guess)- And if shops only sold them in packets of Ten... It would make people use them in Extream conditions...
Sensible people don't use registered weaponry anyways.

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He might if they become X-communicated from Korea, and not allowed to return... and if he got paid a certain amount for each removed, like a Tax return from their wage of a few pence on every pound once they are earning...
I'm still not convinced.

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Yeah not the best idea in the world... It would have to be a gradual build up of trust...
Kim Jong-il and his close descendants will have died before enough trust has been gained for that.

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That War was a Slaughter... The war claimed perhaps 2-2.5 million Southeast Asian lives, a large number of whom were civilians.

<pic>
You have to understand the context of this picture. He was a Viet Cong, enemy soldier, being executed. The Vietnam War wasn't pretty, and both sides got their hands dirty with various atrocities (we could argue for hours about them, I'm sure). Not that this execution was an atrocity- I don't see how an execution is any worse than letting him go just to fight against the South Vietnamese later. Now where's the sense in that, hm?

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Yeah... lets repeat that all over again...
A Second Korean War would be nothing like Vietnam, don't even try to compare them.

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You do know that what happend in Vietnam lead to one of the Uglyest bits of history ever... North Vietnam followed up its southern victory by first making Laos a virtual puppet state. Socialist fraternalism did not last long. The Khmer Rouge, who had historical territorial ambitions in Vietnam, began a series of border incursions that finally led to a Vietnamese invasion. The VPA onslaught overthrew Pol Pot's murderous regime and a pro-Vietnamese government was installed (see Third Indochina War). The U.S. did not recognise the new government of Cambodia, and, along with the United Nations, continued to consider the Khmer Rouge (perpetrators of the greatest genocide since the Second world War) as their ally. In 1979 the Chinese, furious with the Vietnamese for eliminating their Khmer Rouge allies, launched an invasion of Vietnam's northern provinces. After fighting to a stalemate, the Chinese withdrew.
Thanks for the history lesson. In fact, the Vietnam War is one of my passions, albeit a horribly mismanaged war.

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So was Victory or not...?
Anyone who claims the Vietnam War was a South Vietnamese victory is an idiot.
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Anyone who claims the Vietnam War was a South Vietnamese victory is an idiot.

May be I miss understood your reply and Quote on Quote on the last post... It's hard to declare any party a winner of a War... both sides always have their reasons for a War and both are usally heavily backed by their own people... History says we won the 1st and 2nd world wars... but the Jews still got moved out of Germany and many died, so in a result Hitler in part still won... It depends on what goals you look at... a war is very rarely won in its fullest... The War in Iraq for example... we over threw Saddam (Victory) We have not stopped Terrorisum in fact we have fueled it slightly (Loss)...

It will be the same in any war... to a degree... You win a little you lose a little...

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This proves what? I want to see agricultural productivity rates go up, not pictures of the rare North Korean with a decent farming tool.

Actually I agree with you... on the Farming being hard, but not the tools as such... pretty much every one in North Korea owns a Bike, and that costs more than a Spade (in Simple terms)... http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/4072280.stm
North Korea is a fairly wealthy country, it's in less debt than the USA...

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Actually, my main concern isn't the nuclear weapons. It's the heavy artillery pointed at Seoul, and things of that sort.

OK... thats a great Concern... I understand a little... But what I don't get is how you are not COncerned then about the USA developing Weapons with intent to use them ? (And these Weapons are deemed Illegal, unlike some bullistic missles)

See these links:-
http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/122006R.shtml
http://www.dissidentvoice.org/Dec06/Ross21.htm
http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0612/S00294.htm
http://www.campaigniran.org/casmii/index.php?q=node/869

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Actually I didn't.

OK... you have a Man that can read and write, and can help make your country better - or you have a Woman who is pergnant, can't read nor write and is as thick as the day she turned 6... Who do you feed ?

Feeding the Man - could help in the future with gaining ground and may be further gaining food and resources, not feeding him will mean he will die...

Feeding the Woman - will show you have compassion to your people and have a respect for life... but the child wont help you gain any thing for a number of years...

Its a Hard choice to make...

If you still don't get it, then how's this:-

Do you feed an 8 year old child or and 80 year old person... Thats what I mean... Kim at the mo is making these decisions... mainly as he announced he had a Nucular power and a missle...

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Sensible people don't use registered weaponry anyways.

Good point... so if your found with an unregistured Weapon then you get Locked up for 10 years (or some thing)...

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I'm still not convinced.

I doubt it will work either... but before War I think all other avenue's should be explored... Human life is worth more than that...

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Kim Jong-il and his close descendants will have died before enough trust has been gained for that.

They don't trust the West for good reasons... But if we can help reduce the problem they have, after all its the starving that are starving his country... and if ywe link the two, and keep force's to his boarder area's he may be more exceptant... IE when giving Aid we could vet those wanting to leave... But its a Fare fetch idea, I admit, It may not work... in-fact it holds very little chance... but a Chance is still a chance...

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You have to understand the context of this picture
&
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Thanks for the history lesson. In fact, the Vietnam War is one of my passions, albeit a horribly mismanaged war.

Actually thats one of my Fav photo's... it won an award... I know all about it and the time around it... and the only reason I copied and pasted from another site is I suck at wording things... It does not mean I don't know any thing... if it can be done better why not quote it ?

I never said the Photo was an atrocity... The Reason I like it is it shows how the value of life can be reduced just cuz your following orders from a Higher power... if I claimed to hear voices from God and killed you for example it does not make it any righter... This Photo holds so much from that period of time it would be wrong to hate it...

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A Second Korean War would be nothing like Vietnam, don't even try to compare them.

Do you know that for sure ?... It could go any way... Nobody could have guessed how the Vietnam War could have gone or any other before that...

gonorrhoea - Your Opinions and take on all of this are very interesting, I guess you find mine interesting else you wouldn't reply... You know how you wrote:-

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They're indoctrinated into believing North Korea is a nation like no other in greatness, of course they do.

Do you think you may also (In a very small way) being indoctrinated into thinking the way of life in Korea is so Bad thats its Evil or wrong ?... (I use the words Evil and Wrong as its used often in Media in the US)

A little bit like these Americans at this Church... Being drawn in by the word of God:-



The Noises one of the Church goers makes is the same other US Church founders (Speaking in tounges) its not even Hebrew... I am not meaning to offend you or American's in General... but just the minority and the ones that cause this stereo typing... Any one is open to minipulation of the mind, especially when you look up to them as a role model or farther figure... I wonder if thats why Preist insist you call them Farther ?... Head of State, Head of the House... Same sort of thing...
« Last Edit: January 04, 2007, 02:41:11 PM by landofshadows »
 


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1st Ultra Santa  - I wont bother answering you while your being so Abrasive, your responces are one liners, If I was to respond I would get banned...  :-\

No, you won't bother answering because you can't. Just because my answers are short does not mean they are any less significant than your meandering garbage.

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(I am here to make RPG games and help others, not really here to type stuff on the world...)

Then get out of this subforum.

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and the only reason I copied and pasted from another site is I suck at wording things... It does not mean I don't know any thing... if it can be done better why not quote it ?

You didn't quote it, you tried to slip it into your post as if you expected us to believe that you suddenly became literate.

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The Noises one of the Church goers makes is the same other US Church founders (Speaking in tounges) its not even Hebrew... I am not meaning to offend you or American's in General... but just the minority and the ones that cause this stereo typing... Any one is open to minipulation of the mind, especially when you look up to them as a role model or farther figure... I wonder if thats why Preist insist you call them Farther ?... Head of State, Head of the House... Same sort of thing...

No it isn't. Anyone can leave their church and never come back. The indoctrination in NK is involuntary and mandatory.

What are you getting at by comparing Pentecostalism to the NK government? You say that you don't mean to offend Americans but you go out of your way to deride American culture and politics. I am no fan of George Bush but you think that I am a card-carrying Republican and you posted those idiotic pictures of Bush anyway. You continue to compare the United States to dictatorships and called me bloodthirsty. You've done nothing but offend.
« Last Edit: January 04, 2007, 03:19:23 PM by Ultra Santa »

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You've done nothing but offend.

If your offended then I guess your in the Minority I am reffering too...

But You may have noticed by the title of the thread and my opening post I am not to keen on America's way of creating peace...

Blow up the prblem, problem solved... (In short)

Now when your heads of state choose to go against the UN and jump into a War that has not been fully backed then that makes you the Bad guys in my book... and England went along with it also... So I guess we are no better than you... but At least Blair is admitting we failed, Bush plans on sending more troops (or at least is keeping that as an open option)...

Sorry to keep drawing America into the topic, but they are a main feature to the thread hence the title... Heck I may aswell change the title soon... to "Why are Americans Blind and Narrow minded"

What comes as common sense to other nations, like Guns should not be given when you open a bank account... or Blowing up Cizillian tagets will create more terrorist in future years to come or Backing and funding a country against a Musslim State will be looked at as an attack on a religion rather than a Faction...

A nations terrorist are their Hero's...

Robin Hood was a Terrorist...

When you go in to kill a nations Hero you create Marters and role models for future Hero's...

Try looking at things if you was in Korea or Iraq... or any other place you want to create peace... and stamp out terror... the War on Terror can never be won... so you have already lost...

I know Korea is not a War on Terror, and I am loosing the point of the topic... What I am saying is:-

Why are only the American's planning on Invading Korea...?

China and South Korea could do it them selves if they wanted to...
 


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I think the intelligent part of this debate has long since passed.

Your both entitled to your own opinions, but this is going a bit too far. You both need to calm down and get back to the main issue at hand, rather than flashing your e-penises.
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Alerith  - May be your right... I mean North Korea has not feature in the news here in England for some time now...

A Mod can lock this topic if they wish now
 


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Yes, I think this thread ha been pwnt to death.

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The War in Iraq for example... we over threw Saddam (Victory) We have not stopped Terrorisum in fact we have fueled it slightly (Loss)...
Except there wasn't any significant level of terrorists in Iraq to begin with.

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North Korea is a fairly wealthy country, it's in less debt than the USA...
And? North Korea also has a smaller GDP.

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OK... thats a great Concern... I understand a little... But what I don't get is how you are not COncerned then about the USA developing Weapons with intent to use them ? (And these Weapons are deemed Illegal, unlike some bullistic missles)

See these links:-
See, bioterror weapons suck, yes. But I'm sure Bush just intends on 1) developing technology, 2) having something to intimidate other nations, 3) have an answer to any other bioterror programmes. Actually utilising these weapons would be a political nightmare.


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Do you feed an 8 year old child or and 80 year old person... Thats what I mean... Kim at the mo is making these decisions... mainly as he announced he had a Nucular power and a missle...
Yes, okay, but Kim has a number of avenues to use in order to get his country to a decent living standard. But he doesn't. He builds controversial, rather unnecessary weapons... what a regard for his people!

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Good point... so if your found with an unregistured Weapon then you get Locked up for 10 years (or some thing)...
Any good this would do would be negligible, unfortunately.

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They don't trust the West for good reasons... But if we can help reduce the problem they have, after all its the starving that are starving his country... and if ywe link the two, and keep force's to his boarder area's he may be more exceptant... IE when giving Aid we could vet those wanting to leave... But its a Fare fetch idea, I admit, It may not work... in-fact it holds very little chance... but a Chance is still a chance...
Key phrase here: 'it holds very little chance' and I only allot this chance because I never say never (thanks to that one Disney film!!)

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I never said the Photo was an atrocity... The Reason I like it is it shows how the value of life can be reduced just cuz your following orders from a Higher power... if I claimed to hear voices from God and killed you for example it does not make it any righter... This Photo holds so much from that period of time it would be wrong to hate it...
Okay, the situations are different. He was killing an enemy soldier- not a random kid because of orders. And I don't hate it.

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Do you know that for sure ?... It could go any way... Nobody could have guessed how the Vietnam War could have gone or any other before that...
Because we know how to wage unconventional warfare now. Even if any guerilla operations open up, they'll likely be shortlived. And for the most part, they'd be South Korea's responsibility.

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Do you think you may also (In a very small way) being indoctrinated into thinking the way of life in Korea is so Bad thats its Evil or wrong ?... (I use the words Evil and Wrong as its used often in Media in the US)
Do you think that the same could be said for you? Also, evil is objective.

edit- Alerith, don't worry. The thread wasn't intelligent at first, either.
Also, locking this thread would be teh suxx0rz
Quote from: Elegy
It's fucking sad that you and the cat can't stick to the subject and even attempt to defend your little bullshit religion without jumping to personal attacks, maybe thats because evolution is such a stupid idea it's hard to back it up with any claims pertaining to reality.

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After Reading all that you have put I think you have some very Valid points, So if there is going to be a conflict the only way I can see it happening with any chance of being remotely for the better good is below:-

The liberation of North Korea should be attempted should we get the full picture of the numbers suffering through poor leadership. When the invasion starts key targets destroyed by air followed by ground troops with or with out support from the UN, China and South Korea... Depending on backing depends on the level of American forces required, therefore the invasion shouldn't be considered until we have an understanding on who will be backing the conflict and wont, also keeping in mind a great portion of the US forces are within Iraq and wont be pulled out until the level of unrest is down... When reaching dense cizillian area's extream care should be taken... The level of Friendly fire kept to a minimum and any soilder that does open fire unlaw-fully hurting or killing another soilder should be heavily punished and may face a prision term...

To be honest I don't think this is going to happen until Iraq is fully out of the picture of the media and the forces being with-drawn, uless it's going to be used as an excuse to drop the insergency in Iraq... And then I think if its obvious that its being used as a smoke screen it could all going very wrong...

What ever happens both with Korea and Iraq at the moment Bush has to watch his words and actions very closely, espeicailly with the magnatude of the cock up in Iraq he helped cause...

What Shouldn't happen is the attack going ahead regardless of the true facts being known on the level of the troubles in Korea, and sending in too less an army to contend with the ground force it will be facing, Being that the Korea Ground force is going to be large and fairly well trained the casulties on both sides will be high, and after Iraq thats the last thing US needs... I can see Kim (If your right about him having a very low respect for his own people's lives) using them as Human shields to a degree... or even arming them, forcing conscirption... I would hate to see a mass fall-out with the East should they see pictures of many dead inocent Korea's and drop backing if any is given...

I have a very split mind on this now... I still stick to the idea no War is ever Truely won, Goals on both sides are met so every party in a War wins a little and loose a fair amount... You loose things in a War you can never reclaim and you gain some thing within every War also... Pride... All Soilders no matter on what ever side are true Men and all Hero's...

Kim's Goals in this will be to prove America wrong in him being a threat or that he is GROSSLY letting his people suffer without hard proof... It will be to show his Army in its fullest and his Arsenal and Nucular capibilty to its up-most, If you attack expect his best... And he will no doubt try and paint the USA as worst he can, so he may even blow some of his own people up and claim the USA did it, and the final one is to keep his a Member of his family alive... With him having a fair few Goals he is most likely to claim a Win even if he looses his power and leadership...

USA's Goals over throw, Liberate the people, and re-oppiont a trusted leader for the better good of Korea... I think the Over throwing and Liberation may go OK, if handled right... but the Re-oppiontment always seems to go VERY wrong, History has point out we must be very care-full... America will need to show proof as to WHY the War was needed... And needs to keep Casulties to a low... Pretty Hard Goals...

My New Standing on this

All in all I agree the people of Korea should not have to suffer under his rule... But in the main Cities the people there fully back him and love their country, they blame the outside world to a degree for their hardships not their leader, helping them to realise that may hurt them more than we could ever know, helping them could destory them... And for that reason I still think this War would be wrong... If you take away every thing some body knows to be true they will never trust again...

But I do see your side of all of this, if we don't do some thing now it may not ever change, the people there could go on suffering under the rule of a New Kim-esc type ruler, after all if thats all they know then thats all they will breed... You have to break the chain of Violence at some stage to stop it repeating...

VERY HARD to agree totally on this subject... My resolving in Bush though goes on unchanged, he is still a Prick...LOL
« Last Edit: January 05, 2007, 09:10:07 AM by landofshadows »
 


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