So when America Attacks Northern Korea, what will you think ?

I say When cuz its so gunna happen...

Korea has one of the largest untapped Oil resurves in the world... so obviously Bush is guuna want to make all his American citerzens fear Korea and see them as holders of Armourgeden... All the people in the USA are gunna be like "Oh God... Oh No please disarm this Dictator of Evil and remove the weapons of mass destruction"

COME ON !!!!... He set off a Nuke in a mine shaft.... America sets off Nukes in the Desert every so often... France set one off out at sea if I remember correctly... so whats the difference... Nothing...

The only reason people think the head of North Korea is nuts is he keeps him self to him self and wonty let America see if he has weapons of mass destruction...

But then again... I don't blame him...

I mean we sent UN officails into Iraq and they all said "There are no signs of any weapons" what happened next... SHOCK AND ORR... Nice... lets kill 2% of the whole population of people to rid the world of a massive threat to NOTHING !!!....

What the leader of Northern Korea needs do is make out he is ready for war... line up all the Nukes shells in a row... (don't arm them) get all the ships in port... and then Evacuate Korea and hid in the mountains with Bin Larden...

God I hate OIL and I hate greed masked in fear....

Any ways What I am gunna think is how will this all be looked at in say 50 years... and should I be called up to fight... it aint gunna happen... I will stay here in England and if the war hits our soil then I will go out fighting... But I wont envade a country for No Real Reason.... The leader of Korea doesn't want a war... he is just scared of looking weak in front of a monster... THINK ABOUT IT !!!

All I know is the news over here is going nuts (which I guess isn't really anything new) about this, and the plane crash that they automatically said was terrorists, and then found out it probably wasn't.

My view on issues like this is just to not get too involved. I don't want to spend all my time worrying over these things and getting afraid or mad, because whatever is going to happen is going to happen.

I agree with you that this will probably happen; George Bush can't keep his "missile in his pants", so to speak. He "needs" these little wars, because he just wants to be in the history books like his dad. 

So... yes, I'm sure it will happen, and realisitically this could be the beginning of the end of North America as the superpower, but then again, I live in the U.S., so it's not like I get the real news unless I go online and read other countries' newspapers, which I'm not driven enough to do. So I don't really know too much about what's REALLY going on.

Umm, there is a huge difference, and it's not fabricated by the US, this came straight from N. Korea.

Their building their nuclear power for their "defense against the United States". In essence, they want nukes to bomb us with.

Plus that's not the only problem, Japan and N Korea have been at it for years. Since N Korea is new to this, and hasn't fully figured out how to contain radiation, if they do any damage on Japanese soil or become too powerful the Japanese will begin attacking N Korea.

This may not seem like a biggie, but then Japan will ask us for military support, and most likely it will escalate into WWIII.

You may be going, WTF is this kid talking about, but if you think about it, WWII started under VERY SIMILAR conditions. Germany was a fascist country (a form of communism in which all the power is vested in one ruler and one political party - Hitler & Nazis) and N Korea is a communist country. Hitler wanted to make Germany more powerful and have it take its "rightful place" as a power in the world, Kim Jong II (ruler of N Korea) wants the exact same thing. And they both did take and are taking similar routes. Both were extreemly borderlined.

It doesn't take a genius to put 2 and 2 together.

EDIT : Don't believe those conspiracy breed lies, while the media doesn't tell the whole truth, the fact is, if we weren't fighting right now, we'd be under attack. Plain and simple truth. The terrorists and activists would view it as a weakness and attempt to attack us on our home soil AGAIN. You have to understand the mind set and the personality in order to fully understand the situation. Bush is under so much stress as it is, do you really think he has the time to sit down and think to himself - "Hmmmm, I wonder which country's oil I should attempt to steal today?" The fact is people just don't like Bush, because they don't like war. Well, heres something new for you -

Bush can't start wars, the congress itself has the power to start wars, and it's CONGRESS'S decisions that keep us at war, not Bush's.

  Shocker eh?!?

*calmns down*

We've asked repeatedly and tried to make peace, but the simple truth is the terrorists and activists view us as infidels and think they'll get a free ticket to heaven if the die killing us. How do you stop them from doing what they think is right?

Aw come on, at least someone post that I'm a moron who has no clue what I'm talking about for the sake of arg.... Intellegant Debate.

I don't care personally if I'm right or wrong, so please, people, don't let this thread die.

If the U.S.A. attack Korea that only means they are afraid of them. They are afraid they could get powerful enough to be a serious thread. This isn't good at all. I think the U.S.A. will attack Korea soon, VERY SOON.

If we attacked North Korea, Seoul the capital of South Korea, and about 570, 000 innocents would be simply obliterated. If North Korea were to fight fairing without consequencial war tactics on innocents than we would have wiped them out a long time ago. Plus it would only take around 237 bombs to cover North Korea's terrain so I really don't think we have to freight that much as long as China continues to keep their main attention fixated in their little mission of genocide of the pacifist people of the country once known as, "Tibet".

This is why America will attack Korea...Its all about the Oil:-

http://www1.korea-np.co.jp/pk/072nd_issue/98120202.htm

Oil is why Bush is mates with the Bin Lardens and thats what caused a fall out and thats why so many people died in 9/11 it's Bushes fault for being a tit !!!... America trained the Taliban with CIA training... so who's worse, the techer or the pupils.... Heck Bush should be up for war crimes along with Sadam... All this is just Mental... instead of funding Wars and blowing people to bits why not use it to fund new technologies and lead the way to a cleaner future for power...

When was the last time any one fired a rocket at America...? Say if a country did want to attack America they would need shed loads of arms and support to get any place close to leveling one state... America could crush North Korea in two weeks... But it wont, cuz its doesn't want the oil being burned up... It will be another ground offencsive and then a slow leaching of Oil...

Korea is not stupied enough to do it... Korea is like a Yorkshire terrior and America is like a Rotty.... All Korea are doing is grawling saying I have Friken teeth you come for me and I will bite you...

Unlike Iraq they said here look a little closer my teeth are faulse then America Went and ripped em apart...and then said well it looked like it could fight back !!!

Doesn't any one find it odd the day of 9/11 before Bin Larden anounced it was his faction that did it, Bush had Bin Lardens family flown out... and that was the only plane to fly out... and to be honest if any body that day would have wanted to carry out a terrorist attack don't you think it would have been another member of the Bin Larden Tribe ?...

Looking at pictures of the Planes before take off and those that hit the towers... There are some major differences... One being the windows down the side... Count them... you will see what i mean... I dunno there's some thing about that day, it didn't feel real, I often go with my gut... I hate to say it as I know many American's died (And If I am wrong I would look pretty sick)... but could it have been used as a catalist, one to gain money and two to getting backing for a war...

I don't think Korea is a threat... I think many people think the same... So watch out in the next few weeks I bet some thing happens like a nuke will go off or a rocket will be launched at China... It wll look like its fired from Korea, but I bet its fired from a Sub on the boarders of Korea and it will be an exact match of a Korean missle, but it will be an American sub...

May be I watch to much T.V... may be I like over thinking... But What if... What if most of this is staged... We have seen no real proof any of it's real... All we have is our News... that can be doctored...

Actually I bet if we stopped airing the news all this stuff would stop...

And if its not down to Bush... and the congress is the main backer, and Bush is just a front man... and all this is ever proved Unjust then its Bush that will take the fall... I guess thats why Congress fixed the elections that kept a man with an IQ of 90 in power... as he is too stupied to see that he is being used...

Am I the only one who thinks this way or are there others on here ?

Not that I'm pro-North Korea, but them developing nukes isn't completely unreasonable. U.S. at the moment is basically saying "Look, we got our nukes and none of you could develope nukes; so whacha gonna do?". Third world nations such as North Korea (examplified as been in somewhat of a quarrel with U.S.) feels defenseless in a cold-war suspension sense. One blunt theory would be that if everyone had nukes, everyone would be held back at bay. But there are some crazy people out there (Kim Jong being a likely candidate, apparently); so I can understand why the U.S. and such are freaked out.

By the way, no matter how we talk about this, know that politics is a game of deception; it's often likely that we do not know half the truth. Black can be deemed white.

I concur with Reives. We don't know all the details. It's dangerous these days. I can only hope Kim Jong doesn't nuke Croatia just to demonstrate his power... >.<

Even if he has got more Nukes I doubt he could get them any place close to any other country but South Korea... If I lived in South Korea I would be worried... If he lauches a missle we could knock it out of the sky...

Wrong, nukes would simply toxify the air, and kill everyone within a matter of seconds once the shockwave forced the extensive amount of radioactivity into their bodies. It would limit the immediate casualties, but would affect a much wider demonstration of people.

Also North Koreans are all about power. Plus they feel the need to express themselves via power because they are the last dependant communist country in the world. They see Cuba as a pathetic defiance of their goverenments real political stand of which is democratic. So in resolution it would seem that North Korea should be invaded before they have the chance to test another nuke because that country is controlled by a single power-exercising man , and democractic nations are controlled by a congression of people of which it is harder to make unreasonable decisions.

That sounds awful. Why couldn't all the nations just get rid of their nukes and forget that shit already?! I mean, war is so senseless. People just don't know when it's enough. There will always be war as long as there are religions and hunger for power over others.

Don't make war, make love.

What is better?! Sex or shooting somebody in the head?! (this is a retorical question of course...)

Some people choose the latter every time...

That sounds awful. Why couldn't all the nations just get rid of their nukes and forget that shit already?! I mean, war is so senseless. People just don't know when it's enough. There will always be war as long as there are religions and hunger for power over others.

Don't make war, make love.

What is better?! Sex or shooting somebody in the head?! (this is a retorical question of course...)

It's impossible to get rid of all the nukes, even if we were to blow them all up by sticking them in tunnels, it would still cause a nuclear fall out large enough to kill everything, or at least mutate everything. Though if we were to use ground up charcoal to bury the nukes it would nearly neutralize the effect of radioactivity. *Yes, it's a fact*. Though I would highly disregard that a nation would do that. Also sex is simply just a way for people to some how express themselves through a lessening meaning of affection, so if it were used like that it, there would seriously be a fricken problem on our hands, because eventually it would become meaningless as it is on the road to as we speak.

I just read the title of the topic again, and I had a scary though. WHAT IF...

We're trying to take over the world, but the citizens don't know it yet?

I would know then..I have contacts, to government personnel.

Few to none minor government personnels has a chance of knowing the grand scheme of things. And even if they did, unless one is an important figure oneself, it is highly unlikely it would be exposed like that through personal contacts as it would defeat the point.

Few to none minor government personnels has a chance of knowing the grand scheme of things. And even if they did, unless one is an important figure oneself, it is highly unlikely it would be exposed like that through personal contacts as it would defeat the point.

Ya, I know that but I still get alot of insight of what's going on.

Heheh, yep. But

I would know then..I have contacts, to government personnel.

-is referring to the (although unlikely, and unlikely to succeed) theorized grand scheme, which would be beyond gossiped insights.

Cool thing that you got connections like that though. Friends/relatives?

Co-workers at one of my internships...

Hrhr, nice~ 

Much of the News in America is aimed at scaring the people of America... If some one tells you the sky is falling down enough times you will go buy helmets... Just like when Bush said go buy gas masks for fear of Bio Weapons...

Right if the Korea's did detonate a Nuke... I mean they could have just piled Seven Shades of anti Air Craft Rockets in there, in a compacted area and detonate that... say its a Nuke just to make the USA stand back and take notice...

I think its a Bluff... IF the rest of the world said fine we will leave him alone amnd Korea... lets foget it exsists... then what will Korea do... Nothing... Why would it... If they did launch a Nuke and worst case sinario the launch say 5 at te same time at 5 of the largest states... say 3 hit... It will kill many... But then with in a Day the UN will sign some papers and Korea would disapear... Korea aint that stupid... They have Nukes for self defence... as a detrent... Nothing more...

Ignore them... they are nothing...

But I bet we don't as the worlds oil is running low... Espically the in the US... Experts say USA and most other Western country's will have no Oil by the year 2013... and will heavily rely on Eastern countries... So at this stage it makes sense for the West to at least get a finger in every Eastern Oil Supply...

Oil is worth more than Human life... its the only real way America can claw its way out of Mass Debt...

And once again I mention -

This is extreemly similar to how WWII began. Even the debate itself is similar.

World War 3 is going to happen, but your all going to be thrown for a loop when it happens. I think it's going to be more of a "You shot a nuke at innocents, now you must pay" type of war, where generally all the civil countries will create an alliance war against any resisting countries that refuse to join the alliance and the terrorist country that shot off the nuke, most likely being N. Korea, China, or a crazy middle eastern country.

Yeah, I agree with the chain-effect thing; once someone sets off something it'll be none-stop. Although China is somewhat at silent quarrels with U.S., I think it's getting slightly better recently. The problem with nukes is that as long as the one have it, no matter how small the nation is, as long as they are crazy enough they are capable of massive damage and not mentioning being able to start the chain effect. And everyone knows that once someone nukes, it's on.

Well... I don't mind... If we have a massive war may be the first to be drafted up will be the Job-less... I am so peved off that my taxes get leached by them drop outs...

A good war will right out all the scum... If your Scum and your reading this, who taught you to read... Go get a job... Ya Slob !!!!

Hummm God Sends Floods we send Nukes...!!!

I bet if we don't have a Nuke War... the some thing else will happen... it has too... Natural Disasters.... N stuff... Green house effects melting the ice caps and taking out Japan and China... (1st to flood)...

If some thing is gunna happen I wish it would just happen... I hate the build up... Just press the Red button Kym Jon... Dare ya...!!!! Go on... ill give you a Smiley Sticker saying I started it !!!

Nah... Seriously.... I Bet America Starts it again... as soon as they find out the Korea has very little threat in hitting back... America the School Ground Bully of the world will run in a Deck Korea with a few well placed air strikes right on cizillian houses, then they will storm in on ground and shoot any thing that moves including all English News reporters... GO TEAM AMERICA kick some arse... any arse is arse, just shoot ask questions NEVER !!!!

I think that America will steal Crete, and hide it, then use it as an attack base against asian countries like Korea.

Bush can't start wars, the congress itself has the power to start wars, and it's CONGRESS'S decisions that keep us at war, not Bush's.

LOL did you just say that.....

YAY! I got someone else to be back lol!

I wont think anythng of it ay. i didnt thnk anythng of america attacking iraq. Coz it dosnt concern me or my country. we are a peaceful land filled with hobbits who dont want war.

If Britain doesnt get involved then im fine.

I can't seem to quote or reply other than the fast reply because it's lagging horribly -

@seph - Yes, I did just say that. It is the truth. The only way a president can start a war is if it's something urgent in another country, and we need to help out then and there. Even then we can only stay there for 2 - 3 months without congress's approval. Meaning -

Different Outcomes that could have come about -


A.) Bush didn't want war but Congress declared it anyways so Bush is trying to calmn everyone down.
B.) Bush wanted war, but Congress rejects it so Bush tries to rally everyone to war.
C.) Bush wanted war and Congress wanted war, so they're happy.
D.) Neither wanted war and everybody is happy, except for the occasional terrorist strikes.

If I do remember correctly the iraq invasion wasnt approved by congress till many months after it started.

Unfortuanately you can occupy without declaring war.

Declaring war just makes it official.

The general mood on the Internet about America stinks, seriously.  People paint us as fearful sheep (though..some people I see at work do make me wonder.), willing to do whatever our tyrant dictators want us to.  All I ever see anymore is how America is evil, America is going to start WWIII, America this, America that.  Sure, our current administration sucks it bigtime, but...gah.  We're not the worst people on the planet.

Sure, we've made our mistakes.  Heck, we're the only nation in the world to have used nukes on another country in anger (Sorry Japan!).  So, technically, we have no room to talk.  I wish people would look at the good we've done...we helped the Allies with both World Wars, give a ton of aid to other nations. 

About North Korea...well...I say we leave it to the Chinese.  It's their immediate problem and lately, they're distancing themselves from NK. 

Nice first, post, eh?

Yep nice first post...

But America also funds most of the armies fighting each other by giving arms...

Not saying America is the worst Country in the world... (Most Dangerous, but the best place to make some thing of your self, land of oppertunity, but a cost of your own personal safety... is it worth living there... I guess America has good and Bad area's, but even still Living in a street knowing that 6 in every 10 house-holds has a fire arm is not my idea of safe)

Saying not all the American public live in fear... remember when Bush said you would be hit byDirty Bombs... You all brought Gas masks... so many of them that your army shops sold out... MENTAL...

Most dangerous place to live?  I find that hard to believe...Iraq probably is, though that is an American caused problem.  And the gas masks....well, I won't deny that alot of people bought them, but there's our overzealous, self-centered media that bloats problems WAY out of proportion.

I don't know anyone who owns a gas mask, aside from a friend of mine that collects old military equipment from WW2.  Maybe it's because I live in South Dakota, and we're not a big target, but I hate it when all Americans are generalized

Maybe its that trademark American ego of mine, I dunno.  Ah well.  I won't deny that we have have problems though.  Iran-Contra, for example.  Or Nagasaki and Hiroshima. Or Iraq (Don't forget, Tony Blair is fairly buddy-buddy with Mr. Bush, and England has troops in Iraq too)....I dunno.  I just don't like the Republican administration at the moment, and I've generally liked them more than the Democrats (personality, not issuewise.)

I'm trying not sound like an argumentative new member here   Here for the same reason, because I love RPGs.

I mean Dangerous in the way of Gun related Deaths amoungst every day people... Crimes and Stuff...

Iraq is more dangerous in the way governement and Hate factions are at each other... but thats kind of a War... Within the country... I mean there are some countries with mass genicide... But again there in termoil...

America is supposed to be a Modern country, but its untimely death rateis as high as a third world country percentage wise... Most people I have heard in American in their life time will know some one that has been effected by a Gun related death... Close frined or a family member...

One of my friends had a family member shot just 3 days ago. So, yeah, LoS is right in some ways. Still, I don't live in fear at all. But I personally am not afraid of death, so I probably wouldn't really live in fear anywhere unless I was scared of being tortured.

You put an ' where you didnt need one.

Kim Il Jong needs to co-operate to prevent definite loss.

I wouldn't go againts North Korea they have those missiles ready for any war.

I offer my opinion Make Love not war because Condoms are cheap then guns !

...I'm PREEEETTY sure you read that off of a t-shirt.

I offer my opinion Make Love not war because Condoms are cheap then guns !

Im sure its cheaper then guns.

...I'm PREEEETTY sure you read that off of a t-shirt.

Im sure he did also!

nope i saw it on a hippy van !

Korea has one of the largest untapped Oil resurves in the world... so obviously Bush is guuna want to make all his American citerzens fear Korea and see them as holders of Armourgeden... All the people in the USA are gunna be like "Oh God... Oh No please disarm this Dictator of Evil and remove the weapons of mass destruction"

COME ON !!!!... He set off a Nuke in a mine shaft.... America sets off Nukes in the Desert every so often... France set one off out at sea if I remember correctly... so whats the difference... Nothing...

The only reason people think the head of North Korea is nuts is he keeps him self to him self and wonty let America see if he has weapons of mass destruction...

But then again... I don't blame him...

I mean we sent UN officails into Iraq and they all said "There are no signs of any weapons" what happened next... SHOCK AND ORR... Nice... lets kill 2% of the whole population of people to rid the world of a massive threat to NOTHING !!!....

What the leader of Northern Korea needs do is make out he is ready for war... line up all the Nukes shells in a row... (don't arm them) get all the ships in port... and then Evacuate Korea and hid in the mountains with Bin Larden...

God I hate OIL and I hate greed masked in fear....

Any ways What I am gunna think is how will this all be looked at in say 50 years... and should I be called up to fight... it aint gunna happen... I will stay here in England and if the war hits our soil then I will go out fighting... But I wont envade a country for No Real Reason.... The leader of Korea doesn't want a war... he is just scared of looking weak in front of a monster... THINK ABOUT IT !!!

I have not once heard about untapped oil reserves in Korea. In fact I have a friend who is a geologiest for Shell that does site research for where they will build oil wells, so I should ask him. I sure hope the nukes America set off in the desert are underground, because of wind patterns the entire earth feels something from them.

Kim Jong Ill has a complex. Its called the Nepolian Complex. It is where you are short and feel you have everything to prove, so you have to be twice as badass as the tallest person around you. Kim Jong is also growing old... which means he's got nothing to lose. If he dies before he does anything everything that he has strived for will go unfinished. Sort of like how guys that retire write their memoures so future generations can remember them. Kim Jong will need to let the world remember him by doing what it takes to remember him. Was there not a man that shot a president so he would be remembered?

Because of thise twice as badass as the tallest person around you, Kim Jong would never hide. To his people he is literally a god. It is no joke, the people of North Korea feel that him and his family can do whatever they wish because they are gods. Much like how people can feel that their god can come and smite them as they please. A god that backs down would be seen as weak and ungodly.

Finally countries like England... war cannot hit your soil. Planes and ships can decimate England without intervension from someone else. That is not an insult to your navy or airforce, it is an insult to the fact that your country is small and surrounded by a body of water. Why hit the soil of something that small when you can just blow it up? Just like Denmark. Why would war ever come to their soil when they can be decimated into surrender?

IF the US invaded North Korea it would be one of the most morally justifiable wars since WWII. North Korea is a Cold War leftover that everyone forgot about when we were rejoicing over eastern Europe's newfound freedom. Their economy turned to shit after the USSR kicked the bucket and it's been a hellhole ever since. People not in the military or government are treated like dirt, and Kim Jong-il (as well as his father Kim Il-sung) are worshiped as gods in their goofy state ideology which has resulted in tens of thousands of deaths.

Even if he has got more Nukes I doubt he could get them any place close to any other country but South Korea... If I lived in South Korea I would be worried... If he lauches a missle we could knock it out of the sky...

There are still serious doubts about the missile defense system as it has failed again and again and again and again, although there have been some successes. Nonetheless, the odds are against an interceptor stopping a missile and I wouldn't want to depend on them for our safety.

EDIT: According to Wikipedia the North Koreans can reach south Korea, Japan, china, and parts of Russia. Hardly a limited threat considering the massive amount of people within that range.

Right if the Korea's did detonate a Nuke... I mean they could have just piled Seven Shades of anti Air Craft Rockets in there, in a compacted area and detonate that... say its a Nuke just to make the USA stand back and take notice...

You know there is a difference between a nuclear and non-nuclear explosion, right?

I think its a Bluff... IF the rest of the world said fine we will leave him alone amnd Korea... lets foget it exsists... then what will Korea do... Nothing... Why would it... If they did launch a Nuke and worst case sinario the launch say 5 at te same time at 5 of the largest states... say 3 hit... It will kill many... But then with in a Day the UN will sign some papers and Korea would disapear... Korea aint that stupid... They have Nukes for self defence... as a detrent... Nothing more...

So we should just let them do whatever they want? I can't imagine what is most definitely one of the worst countries in the world with one of the  largest armies in the world being allowed to do what it likes when it borders the economic powerhouse South Korea. They already have artillery aimed at Seoul and if war broke out hundreds off thousands would die in that city alone. They have also dug tunnels under the DMZ several times and there might be more we haven't found. Suprise attack, anyone? A country that is ethnically cleansing and starving its population to death is intolerable. I hate to compare them to Nazis, but fuck, they even have concentration camps.

But America also funds most of the armies fighting each other by giving arms...

1) We haven't supplied arms to rebels in third world countries since Iran-Contra and the death of the USSR, at which point we were able to end the countless proxy wars we had been running around the globe. Of course when that happened countries which were depending on us have crumbled, such as Somalia.

2) I don't understand why we would give weapons to two opposing forces. We only supplied arms to people we wanted to win.

3) Perhaps you have us mixed up with the Chinese?

This is extreemly similar to how WWII began. Even the debate itself is similar.

No it isn't.

World War 3 is going to happen, but your all going to be thrown for a loop when it happens. I think it's going to be more of a "You shot a nuke at innocents, now you must pay" type of war, where generally all the civil countries will create an alliance war against any resisting countries that refuse to join the alliance and the terrorist country that shot off the nuke, most likely being N. Korea, China, or a crazy middle eastern country.

That is so silly I don't even know where to begin. The US will never use a nuke on a civilian population because the public response would be quick and violent. We were able to get away with in in WWII because nobody really knew much about it and just thought of it as a "really big bomb". Since then people have learned much more about nuclear weapons and if we used nukes first even under extraordinary circumstances (such as using a low-yield weapon against a heavy military concentration in a sparsely populated area) history would not look upon us kindly, and the political implications would be profound, and the question of when it is okay to use nuclear weapons would no longer be "never" in many circles which haven't been connected to the military. However, nuclear weapons have remained a viable option for military strategists and anyone who disagrees has their head in the clouds.

Not saying America is the worst Country in the world... (Most Dangerous, but the best place to make some thing of your self, land of oppertunity, but a cost of your own personal safety... is it worth living there...

Are you serious? America is one of the safest countries in the world and if you don't think so go to Rio de Janeiro or Caracas or Bogota or Kabul or Baghdad or Jerusalem or anywhere in Africa, especially Mogadishu, Darfur, and the Congo.

I guess America has good and Bad area's, but even still Living in a street knowing that 6 in every 10 house-holds has a fire arm is not my idea of safe)

That's bullshit.

America is supposed to be a Modern country, but its untimely death rateis as high as a third world country percentage wise... Most people I have heard in American in their life time will know some one that has been effected by a Gun related death... Close frined or a family member...

This is also bullshit. Give me some evidence.

But it wont, cuz its doesn't want the oil being burned up...

 

EDIT: I forgot to mention that Kim Jong-il is a kidnapper.

What will I think?

"Final-fucking-ly"

Idk, I just hope they don't strike back....cuz I live in California and well thats in their range.

According to Wikipedia the North Koreans can reach south Korea, Japan, china, and parts of Russia. Hardly a limited threat considering the massive amount of people within that range.

I don't think so, Nouman6.

NUKE UM...

They already hate us enough we should try to be as nice as we can...

It's clear that you didn't read any of the links I provided. Read the ones below, and if you still think we "should be as nice as we can" then you are no better than a Nazi apologist.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2089-2404345,00.html
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2092-2403940,00.html
http://www.guardian.co.uk/korea/article/0,2763,1136483,00.html

NUKE UM...

So... did you read the links or what?

Well I read those links... SO !!!

I mean, Weapons of mass destruction was supposed to be under Sadams control... And did the USA find any... NOPE...

READ This:- http://www1.korea-np.co.jp/pk/072nd_issue/98120202.htm

Now thats why every ones attention is on Korea... No other reason...

SO WHAT IF

So what if he has Nukes - so does America (He only done a test)

So what if he has Gas Chambers - America has lethal injection

So what if he staves some of his people - What did America do when there was a Giant flood... They sent tour buses

Its their country, their rules... don't force a change, nobody likes change, why wont people learn that, look at the people and the trouble in Iraq, they don't want any peace keepers there... they celebrtate when an American dies, SCREW EM, they are as bad as their messed up leaders !!!!

In fact if you look at any nations leader their people follow suite... and thats cuz the media and goverment can brain wash their public... American's (in the majority) are like mini Bushes... and Gun Crazy have ago hero wanna-be's... One of my mates is over in Iraq (or was) and he said when with the American soilders all they do is Shout loads... he said its mental, there is so much noise coming from them you can't hear the gun fire or the enemy, and in the confussion inocent people are being shot...

EDIT: In comes Jesus Hitler to save the day.

Well I read those links... SO !!!

I mean, Weapons of mass destruction was supposed to be under Sadams control... And did the USA find any... NOPE...

Iraq didn't claim to have any weapons of mass destruction, they weren't threatening neighboring countries, and there was no chance of them assisting terrorists.

READ This:- http://www1.korea-np.co.jp/pk/072nd_issue/98120202.htm

Now thats why every ones attention is on Korea... No other reason...

That website is so incredibly biased that I wouldn't be surprised if it had direct connections to the North Korean government.

SO WHAT IF

So what if he has Nukes - so does America (He only done a test)

The difference is that our government is composed of people who are more or less sane and have to answer for their actions, whereas the North Korean military can do whatever they want - such as firs missiles over Japan - and nobody will question them.

So what if he has Gas Chambers - America has lethal injection

We don't kill people and their families for being political dissidents. People are killed for outstanding crimes and are given an opportunity to prove their innocence.   Comparing the two is outrageous.

So what if he staves some of his people - What did America do when there was a Giant flood... They sent tour buses

There isn't a single person in America who is forced to boil bark and eat grass. What happened in New Orleans was not something that the government encourages. This happens every day in NK.

Its their country, their rules... don't force a change, nobody likes change, why wont people learn that,

You deserve a beating for that.

look at the people and the trouble in Iraq, they don't want any peace keepers there... they celebrtate when an American dies, SCREW EM, they are as bad as their messed up leaders !!!!

The difference is that before the invasion Iraq had electricity, running water, a working government, schools, and some degree of safety (at least, more than they have now). North Korea has none of those things. NK consists entirely of a brainwashed peasant class, an enormous military, and a corrupt government.

In fact if you look at any nations leader their people follow suite... and thats cuz the media and goverment can brain wash their public...

Shut up.

American's (in the majority) are like mini Bushes... and Gun Crazy have ago hero wanna-be's...

Shut up.

One of my mates is over in Iraq (or was) and he said when with the American soilders all they do is Shout loads... he said its mental, there is so much noise coming from them you can't hear the gun fire or the enemy, and in the confussion inocent people are being shot...

That is amazingly stupid.

EDIT: By the way, shut up.

Well I read those links... SO !!!

I mean, Weapons of mass destruction was supposed to be under Sadams control... And did the USA find any... NOPE...

READ This:- http://www1.korea-np.co.jp/pk/072nd_issue/98120202.htm

Now thats why every ones attention is on Korea... No other reason...

SO WHAT IF

So what if he has Nukes - so does America (He only done a test)

So what if he has Gas Chambers - America has lethal injection

So what if he staves some of his people - What did America do when there was a Giant flood... They sent tour buses

Its their country, their rules... don't force a change, nobody likes change, why wont people learn that, look at the people and the trouble in Iraq, they don't want any peace keepers there... they celebrtate when an American dies, SCREW EM, they are as bad as their messed up leaders !!!!

In fact if you look at any nations leader their people follow suite... and thats cuz the media and goverment can brain wash their public... American's (in the majority) are like mini Bushes... and Gun Crazy have ago hero wanna-be's... One of my mates is over in Iraq (or was) and he said when with the American soilders all they do is Shout loads... he said its mental, there is so much noise coming from them you can't hear the gun fire or the enemy, and in the confussion inocent people are being shot...

Have you actually spoken to an american face to face for any longer than 2 minutes? Seriously, you'd realise how incredbly ignorant you sound if you realised Americans aren't walking sterotypes.

We're all going to kill each other eventually.
People shouldn't believe everything they read.
Bush won't be president forever.
I can't take half of you seriously because of multiple spelling errors.

I can't take half of you seriously because of multiple spelling errors.

I guess beggers can be choosers.

I guess beggers can be choosers.

Who's begging? btw, its beggars. Thanks for proving me right. 

Actually you've completely proven my point. You have NOTHING intellegent to say, yet you act like a snoody retard.

Hummm...

Well I guess I have made a few American's un-happy... And saying I deserve a beating... more like you would just shoot me... No American can fight hand to hand... Ooops its that stereo typing... SO what if it is... most comics do that all the time... Its my Humor... Of course I know all American's aint the same...

The link I put up is not Bi-ust... here have a look at all of these:-
http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&sa=X&oi=spell&resnum=0&ct=result&cd=1&q=oil+reserves+Korea&spell=1

Any ways every one can have their own opinion and I started the thread, so i wont shut up...

And I can't really speak to an American any longer than 2 mins their voices do me nut in...LOL

Almost as many English Soliders have been killed at war in friendly fire... More Inocent people have been killed than Al-Ki-E-da (If I can't spell a work I fragment it) - My spelling sucks...

Ooops its that stereo typing... SO what if it is... most comics do that all the time...

This isn't a comic book. If you want to spew American stereotypes then stay out of Intelligent Debate.

The link I put up is not Bi-ust... here have a look at all of these:-
long google search

Why don't you link me to a serious web page instead of a Google search which turned up next to nothing.

Any ways every one can have their own opinion and I started the thread, so i wont shut up...

Shut up.

And I can't really speak to an American any longer than 2 mins their voices do me nut in...

Shut up.

Blah... Shut Up... Blah Shut up...

Shite thats intelligent... WOW 

Have you watched Bowling for Columbine...? (May you should)

Until Korea does kill any one outside their own soil then they aint a threat... its like the Cops in the USA saying right that guys got a gun in that house some place and he may have bullets... and we now he ill-treats his family so before he has the chance to ill treat a neighbour we are gunna kill him... MENTAL

Korea needs to look after them selves, you can't force a change...

The French had a revolution and over threw their opperssors... it does happen... or wait until you have a reason other than Oil to attack... and those Google links are not all rubbish...

Here's Korea's Army

NR = Not Reported   

Minimum Military Enlistment Age: 17 Years Old

 Available Military Manpower: 5,851,801
 Total Military Personnel: 5,995,000
 Active Frontline Personnel: 1,106,000

 Yearly Military Expenditure: $5,217,400,000
 Available Purchasing Power: $40,000,000,000
 Reported Gold Reserves: $NR

 Small Arms Authorized Exports (FY2005) : $NR
 Small Arms Authorized Imports (FY2005): $NR

And here's China's

NR = Not Reported   

Minimum Military Enlistment Age: 18 Years Old

 Available Military Manpower: 342,956,265
 Total Military Personnel: 7,024,000
 Active Frontline Personnel: 2,255,000

 Yearly Military Expenditure: $81,480,000,000
 Available Purchasing Power: $8,182,000,000,000
 Reported Gold Reserves: $795,100,000,000

 Small Arms Authorized Exports (FY2005) : $100,000,000
 Small Arms Authorized Imports (FY2005): $NR

China has a bigger army... let them deal with Korea should Korea choose to attack, and they wont as they would be masacred...

Again... I bet if none of the MEdia was reporting how bad Korea is nobody would give a toss... They are making Korea look bad... its actually a moderatlly normal country in comparison to others... But why are they such a target...? THINK...

I know the leader is slightly nuts... but take a look at this leader



I bet he used the same intelligence to find Weapons of mass destruction...LOL

Now I bet your responce Mr Jesus Hitler... is Shut Up... Blah... Oh Shut up... if it is Feck Off...LOL (Oh and when I say Comic I mean Stand up comdian... I am joshing around... But at the same time being half serious... America should stand netual until needed... if not they may be painted as War Criminals them selves)

I mean Trailing Saddam for Crimes against his people... He could have been over thrown in the Gulf War, or he could not have been appointed in the 1st place... He had a Terriable past and people must of fore-seen what a monster he was before being given such power... But the real thing is how I opened the Paragraph HIS PEOPLE, and thats how he saw them... We used to be-head people for treason in the past or tourture them for be-littling royals... Saddams country would have changed but in their own time... we should not measure those behind us by our standards...

Its like an Alien race coming from space looking at how we treat our world (pollution and so fourth) and judging us and killing off the worst offenders...

Time changes people... What the USA is doing is Invading

Blah... Shut Up... Blah Shut up...

Shite thats intelligent... WOW 

Shut up.

Have you watched Bowling for Columbine...? (May you should)

So I guess you get all your news from Michael Moore and the Daily Show?

Until Korea does kill any one outside their own soil then they aint a threat... its like the Cops in the USA saying right that guys got a gun in that house some place and he may have bullets... and we now he ill-treats his family so before he has the chance to ill treat a neighbour we are gunna kill him... MENTAL

I consider the tunnels dug under the DMZ and the artillery pointed at South Korea's capital, ready to fire at any time, a threat. North Korea has also kidnapped people from South Korea and Japan.

A better analogy would be: this guy's got a gun he likes waving around in his backyard and he likes to point it at his neighbors.

The French had a revolution and over threw their opperssors... it does happen...

That was an entirely different situation.

or wait until you have a reason other than Oil to attack... and those Google links are not all rubbish...

Yes they are.

EDIT: And you still haven't linked me to a serious web page.

pointless army stuff

China has a bigger army... let them deal with Korea should Korea choose to attack, and they wont as they would be masacred...

The Chinese won't because they're almost as bad.

Again... I bet if none of the MEdia was reporting how bad Korea is nobody would give a toss...

North Korea wouldn't be any better if nobody was paying attention.

They are making Korea look bad... its actually a moderatlly normal country in comparison to others...

You're right! Why, every other country has death camps, kills babies with birth defects, and is starving its population to death.

I know the leader is slightly nuts... but take a look at this leader

[img]picture of GWB[img]

I bet he used the same intelligence to find Weapons of mass destruction...LOL

That is a stupid picture. Like I said before, if you want to say "LOL dumb Amerikans!" then kindly fuck off because your input is worthless.

I mean Trailing Saddam for Crimes against his people... He could have been over thrown in the Gulf War, or he could not have been appointed in the 1st place...

So?

He had a Terriable past and people must of fore-seen what a monster he was before being given such power...

Saddam's past seems pretty normal for a leftist rebel in a decolonized state.

But the real thing is how I opened the Paragraph HIS PEOPLE, and thats how he saw them...

Saddam probably didn't think of Shiites or Kurds as "his people".

We used to be-head people for treason in the past or tourture them for be-littling royals... Saddams country would have changed but in their own time... we should not measure those behind us by our standards...

So you would be against American intervention in Sudan to prevent further genocide in Darfur? How about in the Congo, the land of child soldiers, where wonem are raped and then shot in the vagina? I guess we shouldn't hold them up to our elitist tandards, right?

Its like an Alien race coming from space looking at how we treat our world (pollution and so fourth) and judging us and killing off the worst offenders...

No it isn't. An alien would have no real interest to protect. We do, since we share the world with these people.

Time changes people...

So let's wait for a hundred years. What the USA is doing is Invading

Yes.

I think the Congo is the place that America should be more envolved in... but then we are going to see picture of dead Army kids shot by the USA... so again more negative thoughts against the USA...

To be hoest when you try and solve agression with agression it does nothing... the changes need to be negotiated, without negotiation 9 times out of ten there will be casulties... You can never truely win a war... it scares a nation forever...

In a country like Korea when the food is thin and peole are starving is it fair to have a child that wont contribute to the econemy... yes every living thing has a right to live... but if thats their way of life then thats their way of life... So what if we think its wrong... They eat dogs in most eastern worlds... its normal to them... I don't think us wading in taking out their leader will help too much... unless you re-join the south to the north... but most of the people either side will end up in arms... it would have to be a slow transition...

Kim Jon... is old he will die of natural causes soon... why try and provoke him into going out with a bang... sit slilent and I bet he will too.. lay your cards on the table... make him aware should he launch a Nuke outside a set area then he is going to face the Shock and Ore fall-out...

You have to at least agree that America is to gun hoe in its approach... and there seems to be a lot of pointing at targets that have no real deffence... North Korea has been painted out a Super Army... but they are not... they aint much stronger than South Korea

South Korea

NR = Not Reported
 

Minimum Military Enlistment Age: 18 Years Old

 Available Military Manpower: 12,458,257
 Total Military Personnel: 5,209,000
 Active Frontline Personnel: 687,000

 Yearly Military Expenditure: $21,060,000,000
 Available Purchasing Power: $956,300,000,000
 Reported Gold Reserves: $210,400,000,000

 Small Arms Authorized Exports (FY2005) : $14,000,000
 Small Arms Authorized Imports (FY2005): $103,000,000

Wait until the war between the two ingites and then send in support to the south or at least let the North know should they attack South Korea then the South will gain USA envolvement... making the whole thing seem futile...

Does that make any sense... Or should we Nuke them before they Nuke South Korea ?

Either way there is no right or wrong opinions... and this is a debate not an Argueement... there is no need to tell me to Shut Up... you was doing pretty well airing your views in contrast to my own... my opinions had started to change... and I had been looking more into Korea... But Korea has not Attacked a country... they may have shown signs they may do... but what country has not... They are not funding or fueling Terrorists... they are not a prime target of the USA... so why are they being Targeted when Japan and China could deal with them should they want to... as and when they want support I am sure they will ask the UN... until then why is it that we should show any interest in over throwing their leader...

Just seems as odd as the time before the Attack against Saddam... and now thats being labeled as wrong... and you know the old saying two wrongs don't make a right... I think attacking rather than waiting could paint the USA in the stereo-typical eye I have cast upon the USA in this thread... and would America want this opinion of them by a large majority ?...

A vast Majority in England see the last attack as wrong and the forces left out there pointless...

I think the Congo is the place that America should be more envolved in... but then we are going to see picture of dead Army kids shot by the USA... so again more negative thoughts against the USA...

Death is inevitable and dead kids are a certainty in a country that uses child soldiers.

To be hoest when you try and solve agression with agression it does nothing... the changes need to be negotiated, without negotiation 9 times out of ten there will be casulties... You can never truely win a war... it scares a nation forever...

I think WWII wa a war that was pretty soundly won.

In a country like Korea when the food is thin and peole are starving is it fair to have a child that wont contribute to the econemy... yes every living thing has a right to live... but if thats their way of life then thats their way of life...

Slavery was a way of life in plantation economies that existed in places like the American South and Brazil. Do you think slavery should have been tolerated because it was their way of life?

So what if we think its wrong... They eat dogs in most eastern worlds... its normal to them...

Comparing genocide to eating dogs is silly. Eating dogs is a cultural quirk, while what the North Koreans are doing is no way to ever treat human beings.

I don't think us wading in taking out their leader will help too much... unless you re-join the south to the north... but most of the people either side will end up in arms... it would have to be a slow transition...

If we were to invade North Korea the end result would be reunification with South Korea, just like what happened in Germany. The two Koreas still have ties; pacification won't be as hard as it seems.

Kim Jon... is old he will die of natural causes soon... why try and provoke him into going out with a bang...

Kim Jong Il is 64 and it's unlikely he will doe for another decade or two. He also wants to leave his throne to one of his sons, and the only way to retain power is to keep the nation isolated.

sit slilent and I bet he will too.. lay your cards on the table... make him aware should he launch a Nuke outside a set area then he is going to face the Shock and Ore fall-out...

NK won't have a nuclear weapon for quite a while. What we have to fear is a conventional invasion of South Korea.

By the way, it's "shock and awe".

You have to at least agree that America is to gun hoe in its approach... and there seems to be a lot of pointing at targets that have no real deffence... North Korea has been painted out a Super Army... but they are not... they aint much stronger than South Korea

Can you please not throw around a lot of numbers taken from the CIA Factbook? They are meaningless.

By the way, it's "gung-ho".

Wait until the war between the two ingites and then send in support to the south or at least let the North know should they attack South Korea then the South will gain USA envolvement... making the whole thing seem futile...

The whole idea of preemptive attack is that war is inevitable and that it is best to start the war on your terms before they do. Why just sit around and let them start on the offensive when we could do the same right now?

Does that make any sense... Or should we Nuke them before they Nuke South Korea ?

If there will be any nukes used it will be very small ones used agains.  military targets, not civilian ones.And, as I said before, NK is a long away from making nuclear weapons.

there is no need to tell me to Shut Up...

There is when you blurt out falsehoods and stereotypes.

But Korea has not Attacked a country...

Have you ever heard of the Korean War?

they may have shown signs they may do... but what country has not... They are not funding or fueling Terrorists... they are not a prime target of the USA... so why are they being Targeted when Japan and China could deal with them should they want to... as and when they want support I am sure they will ask the UN...

There are fears that NK's government could cooperate with terrorists in the future. Also, you say they are and aren't being targeted in the same sentence.

By the way, China would never "take care" of North Korea because they distract the world from China's own failings. Japan literally cannot invade because they don't have an army and their constitution forbids making war (although their self-defense force is superbly trained).

until then why is it that we should show any interest in over throwing their leader...

Because people are dying right now.

Just seems as odd as the time before the Attack against Saddam... and now thats being labeled as wrong...

There are many reasons why the invasion of Iraq was wrong. Those reasons do not apply here.

and you know the old saying two wrongs don't make a right... I think attacking rather than waiting could paint the USA in the stereo-typical eye I have cast upon the USA in this thread... and would America want this opinion of them by a large majority ?...

I think destroying a genocidal dictatorship would reflect well on the United States, no?

I have OFFICIALLY come to the conclusion that landofshadows is blindigly IGNORANT.

I could have told you that Fu... I am...LOL

Thats what makes me me...

Any ways... I think if we do attack Korea all hell is gunna break loose... and who knows how the future will paint us if no real threat is found this time... Bullies springs to mind really... We can't control the world through power...

You find those who have power abuse it... and what country is one of the most powerful... USA... so who most likely to abuse that Power...??

The USA can paint what ever picture it likes and the rest of the world seems to sallow it...

I think all War is wrong, even if it is for the better good... the only time I feel War should come about is like the Japs take a Deffencive stance... Not be "Gung ho"

And Your no doubt getting your facts from the same place your media is... and it can be put across in such away to make Korea look worst than it actually is... If you see Kim Jon give a talk to his nation they seem to love him as a leader... I don't know how many will be happy to see him over thrown... Just like Saddam, most of the people on the streets are happy, but many others are not... Its just kim Jon has been doing this for Decades, why now choose to over throw him... Oh, I remember he detonated a Nuke in a cave... hows that different to America Detonating Nukes in the Desert... and Yes you say Korea is pointing its Arms at other countries, but America can hit pretty much any country it wants to... and I would say is more likely to than Korea is, with Bushes Track record...

The latest conflicts have been acts of agression... not self defence... Why ?

I know your saying its best to take the premetive strike, but thats engadging in war whillingly... And for that reason I think the USA will be painted out to be the agressor and the bad apple of the UN... I could be being Ignorant on this, and trying my best to turn a blind eye on North Korea, but I very much doubt North Korea will do bugger all... And I bet should American's set foot on their soil we are going to see some teriable fall-out and after-marth... I know China is slightly wavering in backing the USA at the mo, but wants its see Cities being leveled and Korea cizillians being hurt in the cross fire... are they then going to be so Co-Op... I dunno...

I think if the USA attacks, it needs all the facts... it needs to better planned than that of the attack on Iraq

And who is to say what we are seeing like the video's of Firing squads shooting Women, and so on in Korea are not fake... I could have made a simular Vid with a few old college buddies... I may be slightly closed minded when it comes to things like this... I don't trust Goverments... They cover up WAY too much... They make you see things the way they want you too... Some times with politics its best to be Ignorant

I could have told you that Fu... I am...LOL

Thats what makes me me...

That is not a positive attribute.

Any ways... I think if we do attack Korea all hell is gunna break loose...

And why is that?

and who knows how the future will paint us if no real threat is found this time...

They've detonated nukes, they have artillery pointed towards Seoul, and the government is starving the populace to death, maintains death camps, &c. I fail to see your point.

We can't control the world through power...

Ah, you're right. We control the world through impotence.

You find those who have power abuse it... and what country is one of the most powerful... USA... so who most likely to abuse that Power...??

. . .

I think all War is wrong, even if it is for the better good...

You're right! I'd just LOVE if World War II never happened, and Nazi Germany was just allowed to keep its racist Fascist empire and go on exterminating minorities and opposing groups in peace.

And Your no doubt getting your facts from the same place your media is... and it can be put across in such away to make Korea look worst than it actually is...

As opposed to you. You just make up information to support your points. Much better than relyin' on that dirty media, eh?

If you see Kim Jon give a talk to his nation they seem to love him as a leader... I don't know how many will be happy to see him over thrown...

North Koreans are indoctrinated from birth. They think North Korea is relatively rich, compared to other nations, such as England, where children die every day due to lack of food and questing the leadership will get you stuck in a concentration camp to be experimented on.
It seems that once these indoctrinated North Koreans find out how poor they really were in comparison to the rest of the world, they'll quickly change their minds about Kim Jong-Il.

Oh, I remember he detonated a Nuke in a cave... hows that different to America Detonating Nukes in the Desert... and Yes you say Korea is pointing its Arms at other countries, but America can hit pretty much any country it wants to... and I would say is more likely to than Korea is, with Bushes Track record...

Shut up. America is not a violent dictatorship, despite the war in the Middle East, which is a completely different situation.

The latest conflicts have been acts of agression... not self defence... Why ?

. . .

I know your saying its best to take the premetive strike, but thats engadging in war whillingly... And for that reason I think the USA will be painted out to be the agressor and the bad apple of the UN...

Aggressive wars won quickly by preemptive strikes tend to have shorter casualty lists and end with a less-devestated economy and standards-of-living. Don't believe me? See the Six-Day War.

I know China is slightly wavering in backing the USA at the mo, but wants its see Cities being leveled and Korea cizillians being hurt in the cross fire... are they then going to be so Co-Op... I dunno...

China likely won't help the USA to distract the world's attention from their own human right's abuses. After all, the Red Chinese aren't very nice, either. Millions have died for opposing Communism in that land, and I doubt the thought that 'cizillians' are dying in their military adventures will ever cross their mind as something to worry about.

I think if the USA attacks, it needs all the facts... it needs to better planned than that of the attack on Iraq

Um...

And who is to say what we are seeing like the video's of Firing squads shooting Women, and so on in Korea are not fake... I could have made a simular Vid with a few old college buddies... I may be slightly closed minded when it comes to things like this... I don't trust Goverments... They cover up WAY too much... They make you see things the way they want you too... Some times with politics its best to be Ignorant

Oh my god. I hate you. Just shut up.

You remind me of some one, and I just can't put my finger on it.

We have spoken together before.
On IRC.

Very much like Jesus Hitler...

Well I guess the Views of some one like my self are to digestiable... And I guess have no relivance at all...

Your missing my main points though...

Could this war (If we enter one) have an alternate objective, like OIL ?

Could lots of the Media be Fabricated to help push this war into happening ?

Very much like Jesus Hitler...

He's my boy toy.

Could this war (If we enter one) have an alternate objective, like OIL ?

You STILL haven't proven that there is a significant amount of oil in North Korea. Until you have, your theory is meaningless.

Could lots of the Media be Fabricated to help push this war into happening ?

There won't be a war with NK for quite a while, despite my wishes.

All the Info you need on NK Oil Supply:- http://www.ciponline.org/asia/articles/quote%20-%20EGH%20-%20N%20Kor%20Drms%20of%20Oil-Fund%20Sec.htm

Sur-plus info to back up the above

North Korea's Oil Boom:- http://www.kimsoft.com/1997/nk-oil3.htm

BBC reports on Oil Drillers from England going to NK:- http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/3672282.stm

Not only are they sitting on loads, they have been stock piling:- http://www.iea.org/Textbase/work/2002/beijing/KIMDOC.PDF

Small note on what NK disclosed:- http://www.kimsoft.com/korea/nk-oil.htm

And the thing with Fabrication check this out:-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U4WOXh8hbkI

Now there are loads of Video's like this, and many are coming from the Minority of those that think outside of the box... and think more on logic... Please look into this and you may find the same things I have... I know its just the other sdie of the coin... but it really does make you think what if

Whatching Video's like this is why I may be quesioning the over throwing of leaders of other countries... Its all about power and resources in my eyes...

All the Info you need on NK Oil Supply:- <link to dumb article>

According to this article, it's not even certain if there IS oil at ALL in North Korea.
And, even IF there was oil in NK wars are not waged merely for oil. Do you honestly think the US would be so dumb as to approach North Korea in a hostile manner merely to get oil, rather than use diplomatic means? Rather than befriend NK? No, it isn't. America isn't a warmongering juggernaut conquering any and all states with oil that it wants.

And the thing with Fabrication check this out:-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U4WOXh8hbkI

Now there are loads of Video's like this, and many are coming from the Minority of those that think outside of the box... and think more on logic... Please look into this and you may find the same things I have... I know its just the other sdie of the coin... but it really does make you think what if

Whatching Video's like this is why I may be quesioning the over throwing of leaders of other countries... Its all about power and resources in my eyes...

This is so stupid I have no idea where to begin.

All the Info you need on NK Oil Supply:- article

Sur-plus info to back up the above

North Korea's Oil Boom:- http://www.kimsoft.com/1997/nk-oil3.htm

BBC reports on Oil Drillers from England going to NK:- http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/3672282.stm

These articles say there might be oil and that people are looking for it, nothing more. Theere are probably similar articles for dozen other countries.

Not only are they sitting on loads, they have been stock piling:- http://www.iea.org/Textbase/work/2002/beijing/KIMDOC.PDF

I don't know how they've been stockpiling it when none of the oil fields - which might or might not exist - are being drilled yet.

Anyway, that article has nothing to do with North Korea but is about a company in South Korea which distributes petroleum.

Small note on what NK disclosed:- http://www.kimsoft.com/korea/nk-oil.htm

That link contains next to no information, its references are useless, and I don't trust web sites which haven't been updated in a year and offer job opportunities in North Korea.

And the thing with Fabrication check this out:-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U4WOXh8hbkI

Now there are loads of Video's like this, and many are coming from the Minority of those that think outside of the box... and think more on logic... Please look into this and you may find the same things I have... I know its just the other sdie of the coin... but it really does make you think what if

Whatching Video's like this is why I may be quesioning the over throwing of leaders of other countries... Its all about power and resources in my eyes...

9/11 conspiracy theories are retarded.

By the way, if you don't know how to spell a word refer to a dictionary, don't use dashes and "sound it out" because it makes you look stupid.

Oh, and by the way:

All the Info you need on NK Oil Supply:- http://www.ciponline.org/asia/articles/quote%20-%20EGH%20-%20N%20Kor%20Drms%20of%20Oil-Fund%20Sec.htm

Sur-plus info to back up the above

North Korea's Oil Boom:- http://www.kimsoft.com/1997/nk-oil3.htm

BBC reports on Oil Drillers from England going to NK:- http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/3672282.stm

Not only are they sitting on loads, they have been stock piling:- http://www.iea.org/Textbase/work/2002/beijing/KIMDOC.PDF

Small note on what NK disclosed:- http://www.kimsoft.com/korea/nk-oil.htm

And the thing with Fabrication check this out:-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U4WOXh8hbkI

Now there are loads of Video's like this, and many are coming from the Minority of those that think outside of the box... and think more on logic... Please look into this and you may find the same things I have... I know its just the other sdie of the coin... but it really does make you think what if

Whatching Video's like this is why I may be quesioning the over throwing of leaders of other countries... Its all about power and resources in my eyes...

By that, do you mean:

All the information you need on NK oil supply:
http://www.ciponline.org/asia/articles/quote%20-%20EGH%20-%20N%20Kor%20Drms%20of%20Oil-Fund%20Sec.htm

Surplus information to back up the above:

North Korea's oil boom: http://www.kimsoft.com/1997/nk-oil3.htm

BBC reports on oil drillers from England going to NK: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/3672282.stm

Not only are they sitting on loads, they have been stockpiling: http://www.iea.org/Textbase/work/2002/beijing/KIMDOC.PDF

Small note on what NK disclosed: http://www.kimsoft.com/korea/nk-oil.htm

And the thing with fabrication check this out:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U4WOXh8hbkI

Now there are loads of videos like this, and many are coming from the minority of those that think outside of the box, and think more on logic. Please look into this and you may find the same things I have. I know it's just the other side of the coin, but it really does make you think, 'What if?'.

Watching videos like this is why I may be questioning the overthrowing of leaders of other countries. It's all about power and resources in my eyes.

You know what guys? Landofshadows has ruined this topic for me.

Let me know when this topic gets fixed, then I'll start posting in it again.

I am Dis-leck-sick... now if I was to spell check ever blinking thing it would take me ages... so I don't bother... I sound it out... and thats better than what most do... at least I know and work around my problem...

Any ways thats not the point...

Its well to easy to say 911 cover ups and so fourth are Retarded... But if you want to be narrow minded then please do, your pro-ogrative, freedom of choice and all... but don't mock what other people may think... even if it is wrong, every-one is due an opinion...

The planes that took off look nothing like those that hit the buildings... and there was no de-bree... The buildings could not have fell in the way that they did in the time that they did... That day just didn't feel real, in my gut some tells me some thing about that day isn't real... I dunno if it was just the shock or what, I just still can't understand it...

What if... OK... I am going out on a limb here, and gunna up-set a few people, so sorry in adavnce...

The Twin towers had serverd their purpose as being the highest buildings, and got out classed within a year or so... and the fall of them and the stock market a fair few high up people would profit from it, as well as Bush getting a chance to point the finger at Bin Larden, some one who the CIA helped train and give arms to... HOLD ON THIS IS SOUNDING A LITTLE HOLLYWOOD... and it does sound kinda crazy... and its wrong to even impliment Bush had any thing to do with it at all...

But you never know... its a different world the world of politics...

In history crazyer things have happend... Like Hitler pretty much brain-washing his whole nation into making them think they are the higher race... and carrying out acts of Murder in the most Race-ist way ever...

Any way...

Nothing has happend yet...

If there is to be a War I hope its MASSIVE, and envolves every nation, this world could do with a Reset...

NOW YOUR REALLY NOT GUNNA LIKE ME

The only way would be Hitlers way and thats to e-radicate the whole of the Eastern world...

(Thats kind of what Bush is doing in my eyes... At the moment the people in the Kongo are killing each other, USA will no doubt wait until one side is pretty much victorious and then help the under dog, wipe out the others and look like Hero's, with a different agenda to then stick their head people in power of their choosing and force a democracy and a way of life change... And I bet if a rocket is fired from Korea at any other country it comes from a USA sub close to the northern Korean coast line, just to kick start things... Bush has made his people scared, then eased there fear by attacking those he made them scared of, winning his people's hearts then using them to back his own campaign of shoot 1st ask questions later approach)

I really hope I have this all wrong... and in away I am kind of stupid to write this as I know the sort of replies I will get...

But if in America some people are posting video's to the NET based around the same thing then how wrong can I be, if the public of the USA is very divided...

Seriously I hope the world aint as sick and twisted as I am painting it, and I hope it is my warpped fragile little mind... but I go with my Gut feelings and they aint failed me yet... There's some thing about Bush... I dunno may be his goat like looks that make me compare him to images of the Devil and even the bible reads the Devil will walk the earth and take control of the most power-ful nation under a flag of peace... (NOW THAT REALLY SOUNDS CRAZY... May be I am...)

Any way Sorry Jesus Hitler, gonorrhoea & Fuu (Fuu I started this Topic) and any one else I have offended... I do have some very ugly views on those with power that attack those with very little... AT least World War 1 & 2 Both sides had been equally matched...

But again... nothings happend to Korea yet so I can't judge... But what will I think...(points at topic title) Told you so !!!

I am Dis-leck-sick... now if I was to spell check ever blinking thing it would take me ages... so I don't bother... I sound it out... and thats better than what most do... at least I know and work around my problem...

Get Firefox 2.0, it comes with a spell check. Sounding it out isn't better because you still come across as a dumbass.

I really hope I have this all wrong...

You do. You can't get much wronger than you are right now.

I don't like Fire Fox too much... I had it installed for a few days... Some features I liked others I didn't...

I would download the latest IE, but I have heard its a little buggy... I will wait for Vista and hope it has more features to help with spelling...

Any ways, its not that bad... And I doubt mind people thinking I am slightly dumb... Had it all my life... You should see how shocked poeple look when they see my IQ score or WEB sites I have made, music I have wrote, 3D Game levels I have made...etc...

Spelling and reading are my only real weak points... so I am not too fussed to me its nothing...

But ta for the heads up on Fire Fox

And I do Seriously hope i am wrong about Bushes Agenda

I am Dis-leck-sick... now if I was to spell check ever blinking thing it would take me ages... so I don't bother... I sound it out... and thats better than what most do... at least I know and work around my problem...

Get Firefox 2.0, it comes with a spell check. Sounding it out isn't better because you still come across as a dumbass.

http://www.iespell.com/

bigger dumbasses use firefox...(lol...not really but ya)

...Don't care if he attacks my spelling...

But thanks Nouman6

I am 27... Well I no doubt deserve most of what you said if I have dissed your goverment and all...

But if you speak to most people out side of America they will most likely say America is abusing its power and throwing its weight around too much...

I just took it one step up and said what many are thinking...

Humm some one keeps deleting posts... but not mine... I wonder why that is

Oh... just found another Odd Video... (thats what it is though ODD)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BX-gXdJnKps (Money folding showing the towers falling)

The Twin towers had serverd their purpose as being the highest buildings, and got out classed within a year or so... and the fall of them and the stock market a fair few high up people would profit from it,

Okay this might be a weird thing to pick out, but really anyone with much knowledge of the stock market could have profited from it's fall. Then again, most people with much knowledge of the stock market would have already been playing the stocks and lost shitloads of money.

Yeah it was an odd thing to pick out... But I remember hearing around the time that it was the best thing Finaciacially that could happend to the USA (as they are in Major Debt )...

I can't find the exact site or article any more... I have searched I found this, but its not the same standard as the one prior:- http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0403/S00244.htm

Don't you find it odd that the USA helped Korea with their Nucular arms many years ago and now they are saying look what they have got, lets get them... in the same way the CIA trained the Tali-ban and armed them, then said oh look what they have got lets get them...

I dunno... its odd that nobody else has came to the front yet and said some thing along these lines... Am I alone on this (on here)

wow...I nrver heard about that stuff! maybe because im 15...

It could just be I am in England and here the media is given to us openly with a wide choice, heck we can even watch Saudi news should we want to... The BBC tends to shove the government in a lime coloured light to us, but thats the only channel that the news can be slightly Bi-ust...

All I am saying is Governments keep the public on a need to know baisis, so what they tell us is what the want us to know...

Its like not many people know Bin Larden was a Friend of Bush... (this is a very Corny site) here's a link:- http://www.bushwatch.com/bushmoney.htm

And a link about who Bin Larden is:- http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/CHO109C.html

He was American made...

Ah found one of the old Articles I read about the Bin Larden Family being flown out of America before Bin Larden admitted he committed the attacks:- http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/events/newsnight/1645527.stm

Its all very odd... And thats why I don't trust what i am told most of the time

OFF TOPIC

Here's some funny Quotes By Bush...
http://globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=viewArticle&code=TRE20061119&articleId=3907

Now I don't think he is the best leader for the worlds Super Power or a role model... infact I would not trust him to baby-sit... He is a Usless Turd of a guy really...

And that is why I do not believe it is he who is actually running the country, as does everyone else I have ever known in real life. (CABINET!*cough, cough*) But that is beside the point. Do not get derailed, please, and try to keep the topic moving in a linear and a gradual flame intensifying fashion.

OFF TOPIC

Here's some funny Quotes By Bush...
http://globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=viewArticle&code=TRE20061119&articleId=3907

Now I don't think he is the best leader for the worlds Super Power or a role model... infact I would not trust him to baby-sit... He is a Usless Turd of a guy really...

Maybe I'm wrong, but it seems you think most Americans feel that he is some sort of great leader, and makes all the right decisions, and we're all behind everything he does 100%... when in actuallity a very large percentage of us feel the exact opposite.

Then again, as I've said before, when all you have running for president is shitty vs. shittier, then there's not much you can expect...

Anyways, back to topic.

Maybe I'm wrong, but it seems you think most Americans feel that he is some sort of great leader, and makes all the right decisions, and we're all behind everything he does 100%... when in actuallity a very large percentage of us feel the exact opposite.

Then again, as I've said before, when all you have running for president is shitty vs. shittier, then there's not much you can expect...

Anyways, back to topic.

I find it strange, that even when recognizing that democracy leads us on a descending spiral into mediocracy and "leaders" who follow polls but don't lead and endless blame shifting, most people still cling to the idea that it is "the best way" and that anything else would be "unfair" or "immoral" due to their social ingrained stigmas against anything that would disrupt the status quo.

As for korea, it's more likely the Chinese will invade the South and North when coinciding with their invasion of the US. I give it 50 years or so, unless a nuclear war of any scale breaks out first.

I am 27...

My hope is dying. I sincerely hope you're just lying.

Well I no doubt deserve most of what you said if I have dissed your goverment and all...

That's not the problem at all. The problem is that you have continued to make fallacious claims with no evidence, and then ignored many points contradicting yours, because that's what's convenient for your outlandish claims.

But if you speak to most people out side of America they will most likely say America is abusing its power and throwing its weight around too much...

It certainly did in Iraq.

Humm some one keeps deleting posts... but not mine... I wonder why that is

Oh, sod off. You're acting like a prepubescent boy, and as I've said before coming up with hack theories with little or no supporting evidence.

Oh... just found another Odd Video... (thats what it is though ODD)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BX-gXdJnKps (Money folding showing the towers falling)

Wow. Some people have way too much time on their hands.

EDIT: I'll have to address other points raised since my last post later. I'm off to bed.

OK... So whats the latest news your seeing in your part of the world on North Korea ?

Here's the last daming report I saw:-
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/country_profiles/1131421.stm

Reading this most is Estimated or predicted and most from a US source... Or news doesn't real give us concreate facts... The same sort of reports came out about Saddam, Iraq and weapons of massdestruction...

I think if we are to go to war then may be we need to know all the facts the top dogs at the UN and the Cabinet of the USA know... I don't want another attack (war) to commence while Bush is in power... It will stink to high heaven if we do...

Well I no doubt deserve most of what you said if I have dissed your goverment and all... But if you speak to most people out side of America they will most likely say America is abusing its power and throwing its weight around too much...

Jesus christ, will you just get it out of your head that Americans are slaves to their government and that every newspaper and news station in America is Fox News?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BX-gXdJnKps (Money folding showing the towers falling)

That is the stupidest fucking video ever. I am almost offended.

Yeah it was an odd thing to pick out... But I remember hearing around the time that it was the best thing Finaciacially that could happend to the USA (as they are in Major Debt )...

It was hardly the "best thing ever" since our debt has gone up since 9/11.

I can't find the exact site or article any more... I have searched I found this, but its not the same standard as the one prior:- http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0403/S00244.htm

Since 9-11, we have watched the role out of a significant amount of black budget technology. The intimate militarization of all planetary air, land, water and oceans and space with electromagnetic, laser, sonar and other invisible weaponry implies a zero privacy world for all living things. This is a world where our thoughts and feelings are not free of 24-7 interference and influence unless we wish to tunnel deep underground. Perhaps that is why the black budget is financing so many underground facilities.

What horse shit.

Don't you find it odd that the USA helped Korea with their Nucular arms many years ago and now they are saying look what they have got, lets get them... in the same way the CIA trained the Tali-ban and armed them, then said oh look what they have got lets get them...

Why would the CIA help a Soviet ally during the Cold War, and where have you gotten the idea that we have helped North Koreans with nuclear weapons? Your comparison with the Taliban is equally retarded and poorly thought out.

I dunno... its odd that nobody else has came to the front yet and said some thing along these lines... Am I alone on this (on here)

You are entirely alone.

It could just be I am in England and here the media is given to us openly with a wide choice, heck we can even watch Saudi news should we want to... The BBC tends to shove the government in a lime coloured light to us, but thats the only channel that the news can be slightly Bi-ust...

Thank god we have you English to show us the truth! After all, since we in America can't watch anything not approved by the state we can't even watch news from Saudi Arabia! What news are we missing from that bastion of freedom?

Its like not many people know Bin Larden was a Friend of Bush... (this is a very Corny site) here's a link:- http://www.bushwatch.com/bushmoney.htm

Wow, a multimillionaire family with connections to other multimillionaires? Color me amazed! You can't expect me to take a site that refers to America as "The United States of American Express" seriously.

EDIT: And if it was a secret it was a very open one.

And a link about who Bin Larden is:- http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/CHO109C.html

He was American made...

No shit he was. Do you think that the CIA's support of Al-Qaeda during the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan is a secret?

That's also the site of those "funny" Bush quotes you posted as well. That taints the whole site, which was already pretty awful.

Ah found one of the old Articles I read about the Bin Larden Family being flown out of America before Bin Larden admitted he committed the attacks:- http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/events/newsnight/1645527.stm

The Bin Laden family are immensely rich and powerful. If they hadn't left immediately don't you think someone would be killed? I don't see what is wrong about someone using their connections to leave a country filled with people who might want to kill them.

In the eight weeks since the attacks, over 1,000 suspects and potential witnesses have been detained. Yet, just days after the hijackers took off from Boston aiming for the Twin Towers, a special charter flight out of the same airport whisked 11 members of Osama Bin Laden's family off to Saudi Arabia. That did not concern the White House.

Why the fuck would random members of the Bin Laden family know anything about 9/11? They were living in America, do you really think they were Muslim fanatics?

You have yet to link me to a site that isn't the product of conspiracy theorists or people who just want to believe the worst about America.

Here's the last daming report I saw:-
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/country_profiles/1131421.stm

How is that "damning"?

Reading this most is Estimated or predicted and most from a US source... Or news doesn't real give us concreate facts...

So I guess web sites that have pages dedicated funny Bush quotes can be trusted, huh?

The same sort of reports came out about Saddam, Iraq and weapons of massdestruction...

Except that people questioned the veracity of those reports from the beginning and they were proven wrong quickly.

I think if we are to go to war then may be we need to know all the facts the top dogs at the UN and the Cabinet of the USA know... I don't want another attack (war) to commence while Bush is in power... It will stink to high heaven if we do...

Why? Because it'll "look suspicious"?

LOS: pwnt

LOS: pwnt

spam..that shit isn't needed here, everyone has their own thoughts.

How is that "damning"?

I was being Sarcastic... Hard to put that across in writting...

Why would the CIA help a Soviet ally during the Cold War, and where have you gotten the idea that we have helped North Koreans with nuclear weapons? Your comparison with the Taliban is equally retarded and poorly thought out.

Well put it this way America stood by and let it happen. see this link:-
http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/features/2004/0405.kaplan.html

Wow, a multimillionaire family with connections to other multimillionaires? Color me amazed! You can't expect me to take a site that refers to America as "The United States of American Express" seriously.

Ok fair point, it was a shite site, but the only one I could find with a photo of em sitting together, how about these more reputable sites
http://www.cbc.ca/fifth/conspiracytheories/saudi.html (CBC)
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/events/newsnight/1645527.stm (BBC)

That is the stupidest fucking video ever. I am almost offended.

Yeah I thought this was pretty shite too... I mean you can fold most notes and get another image of sorts... But its fairly inetresting (as far as U Tube goes)

Jesus christ, will you just get it out of your head that Americans are slaves to their government and that every newspaper and news station in America is Fox News?

Fair enough, so when Bush said, there may be a chemical attack, and suggest you buy Gas masks... how quickly did your arm surplus stores run out of the buggers... I aint saying your slaves or any thing of the sort, I am saying you way to trusting in your government... I, in England knew before the attack on Iraq there was no threat... Not from Saddam any way... but from terrorist factions, I could not understand why the target shifted... I feel we should have placed special units, not even announced we was going to and supprised attack the Osarmar... Heck we could have him now if we didn't let on that we was after him...

You are entirely alone.

Well may be then I am wrong... I guess we wont know though until History is written down in say 60 years... I wonder how those in Iraq feel about the occupation of their country at the moment, I I wonder if they think their new regeem can keep them safe from the factions running their streets and lives... Have we helped, or fueled the fires of terrorisum further in the hearts of children in their home towns... how many of the young lost a family member to a US bomb, and how many will one day seek revenge...

See this report:- http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/763226.html

So in actual fact all you have done is prod a bee's nest !!!

LOS: pwnt

spam..that shit isn't needed here, everyone has their own thoughts.

Same can be said of your own post.

Well put it this way America stood by and let it happen. see this link:-
http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/features/2004/0405.kaplan.html

Wow, Bush let something slip through the cracks. Isn't that simply amazing?

Ok fair point, it was a shite site, but the only one I could find with a photo of em sitting together, how about these more reputable sites
http://www.cbc.ca/fifth/conspiracytheories/saudi.html (CBC)
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/events/newsnight/1645527.stm (BBC)

As for the first link, I'm uncertain as to what you're trying to establish here.
As for the second, I really can't take that seriously. Even they admit it may be inaccurate.

Fair enough, so when Bush said, there may be a chemical attack, and suggest you buy Gas masks... how quickly did your arm surplus stores run out of the
buggers...

You like to talk about countries that you don't know anything about, don't you?

I, in England knew before the attack on Iraq there was no threat... Not from Saddam any way...

Right, because there weren't like, all these groups of Americans that opposed the invasion. Nope, not one. Americans don't trust their government as much as you think.

I feel we should have placed special units, not even announced we was going to and supprised attack the Osarmar... Heck we could have him now if we didn't let on that we was after him...

Right, because you know, he's not going to assume we're going to target a terrorist that blew up our Towers. Also, Special Forces ops don't always work that easily. In fact, most of them are based on shitty intelligence and/or fail due to a dumb mistake.

I wonder how those in Iraq feel about the occupation of their country at the moment, I I wonder if they think their new regeem can keep them safe from the factions running their streets and lives... Have we helped, or fueled the fires of terrorisum further in the hearts of children in their home towns...

It's been said, Iraq was a mistake. But North Kore and Iraq are totally different situations.

gonorrhoea

Hummm... I see Text, News links, pictures, facts and Even Video... have no effect...

Now I guess I must resort to SOUND... yes a Sound file on how I feel about how Bush affects his people:- http://theforge.crankeye.org/serious_matter.mp3

There you have it... I don't much mind if you are or are not lemmings... I know your not slaves and I know about 60% of Americans don't back Bush and the conflict... I just thought may be you was in the other 40% in the way your so defencive...

All I have said really is do you think its possible there is another agender to these attacks ?... and if so do you think it could be Oil ?

I mean after all if say NK is Neutrillized and every thing goes to plan and a new leader is in place AMerica would no doubt be a country that helps with the re-building of normal structures... "and then Oh look that spot right there will make a lovel Oil Field..."... Not a possibilty of that happening... not even a remote one or The setting up of a very cheap Export of Oil...

Fuel costs lives... its the most valuable thing on the Planet and we are running short of it... (look at China and their Coal industry)

Oh And off Topic gonorrhoea - please stop sending me Racist love letters from Jesus Hittler via PM... I aint Racist, and I aint Black so pictures of the KKK Hanging Blacks aint my cup of tea... And if Jesus Hitler hates me that much he is a bit Sad... He didn't even have to pass comment if he thought so low of my opinion... And I don't hate him... I kind of liked his banter, he had some very good points... 

So do you in a more blunt gruntish way... 

What will I think?

"Well damn, another war? Stupid Americans."
Or...
"...what a drag..."
or
"...how troublesome..."
OR
"Well... this has nothing to do with me... I mean... who would attack Australia..."
oR...
*yawn*

I really wish I lived in Australia... Nice place, Nice people...

England Sucks... its grey and dull...

Any ways back to topic... Right now, this very secound if War broke out I would be pretty happy... My Misses has just given me orders to take the dogs for a Walk, while she has a Bath, and then afterwards as Tesco is open 24hrs I have to drive her up there and do shopping... Given an option of Shopping from 10.20pm till near on midnight or being given a Mig to fly in dog fights... I will take the Mig...

But nah... Serously... I hope we don't go an invade Korea, that will mean mass fallout and disburcement of many Korean people, it will also mean many people we know may die, or at least be away for Xmas... I can't see it happening any time soon... But if I was a Nutty leader of North Korea and I wanted to really make people pissed I would fire all my big boy bombs on Xmas Day...

Hummm... I see Text, News links, pictures, facts and Even Video... have no effect...

Because none of these are valid. If they were, I would agree.

Now I guess I must resort to SOUND... yes a Sound file on how I feel about how Bush affects his people:- http://theforge.crankeye.org/serious_matter.mp3

Unfortunately I can't listen to that at the moment, I'll have to do that later.

There you have it... I don't much mind if you are or are not lemmings... I know your not slaves and I know about 60% of Americans don't back Bush and the conflict... I just thought may be you was in the other 40% in the way your so defencive...

I already said numerous times that I was against the conflict. Not that I think we should pull out, as I think that would only make matters worse for Iraq.

All I have said really is do you think its possible there is another agender to these attacks ?... and if so do you think it could be Oil ?

Has this matter not already been addressed?

I mean after all if say NK is Neutrillized and every thing goes to plan and a new leader is in place AMerica would no doubt be a country that helps with the re-building of normal structures... "and then Oh look that spot right there will make a lovel Oil Field..."... Not a possibilty of that happening... not even a remote one or The setting up of a very cheap Export of Oil...

Same as above.

Oh And off Topic gonorrhoea - please stop sending me Racist love letters from Jesus Hittler via PM... I aint Racist, and I aint Black so pictures of the KKK Hanging Blacks aint my cup of tea... And if Jesus Hitler hates me that much he is a bit Sad... He didn't even have to pass comment if he thought so low of my opinion... And I don't hate him... I kind of liked his banter, he had some very good points.. 

What? I didn't send you any of these :| I didn't like that picture.

So do you in a more blunt gruntish way... 

I'm hotblooded, my apologies.

Offtopic, I'd love to visit England and Australia. English architecture is very beautiful, as are some of the landscapes.

Oh yes, before any of you get the idea that I have no idea what's going on...

This is because North Korea owns and has been testing Nuclear Weapons, and upon request that they stop... they have refused...

I think... I dunno... whatever.

Yep thats the Basic bones of it...

But My side is many other coutries are free to test nukes... And So what if he refuses, if he refuses the next thing they will ask, can we send the UN in to have a look about, and then, sorry matey but we gunna have to disarm those bombs you have there... And that will leave him pretty much a sitting duck in a country thats pretty Screwed any way... He will then feel more of a need to prove him self and his power... Let him blow up his old mines and make Nuclar coal lumps... At least he is happy for now... (It would be like taking a new toy off a ranting bratt)...

Hummm... I see Text, News links, pictures, facts and Even Video... have no effect...

Because none of these are valid. If they were, I would agree.

I don't really want you to agree... Just to say or may be think... hummm, I guess there could be some thing in it... yeah, Oil prices here just dropped, and there was no News Announcement or nothing it just Happened (Thats what Happend here Uleaded went from 98p per liter down to 87p per liter over night, and NOTHING was mentioned on the news as to why... but when it goes the other way (UP) then its all over the News like a rash...

Now I guess I must resort to SOUND... yes a Sound file on how I feel about how Bush affects his people:- http://theforge.crankeye.org/serious_matter.mp3

Unfortunately I can't listen to that at the moment, I'll have to do that later.

It's me Mugging you off... not worth listening to, me being a prick, but it is Funny !!!

Oh And off Topic gonorrhoea - please stop sending me Racist love letters from Jesus Hittler via PM... I aint Racist, and I aint Black so pictures of the KKK Hanging Blacks aint my cup of tea... And if Jesus Hitler hates me that much he is a bit Sad... He didn't even have to pass comment if he thought so low of my opinion... And I don't hate him... I kind of liked his banter, he had some very good points.. 

What? I didn't send you any of these :| I didn't like that picture.

You didn't... Thats real odd... I can't find it in my PM Box either... may be I was dreaming it... Nah... Deffiently saw it... Black and White Cartoon... Whoever sent me it, if it wasn't you, said they have sent it to a few people so I guess some one on here will now how sent it... (For some reason the Crankeye Server seems to be down from around 10.30am till about 5pm GMT time, and some times bits seem to change... It could just be my connection )

So do you in a more blunt gruntish way... 

I'm hotblooded, my apologies.

Cool... Guess clean slate for us then, again sorry if I have upset any Americans so far, Heck sorry if I upset any in the next few months, in Advance... Now that planning LOL 

You didn't... Thats real odd... I can't find it in my PM Box either... may be I was dreaming it... Nah... Deffiently saw it... Black and White Cartoon... Whoever sent me it, if it wasn't you, said they have sent it to a few people so I guess some one on here will now how sent it... (For some reason the Crankeye Server seems to be down from around 10.30am till about 5pm GMT time, and some times bits seem to change... It could just be my connection )

For forums being down, see http://rmrk.net/index.php/topic,9256.0.html

The cartoon was Jesus_Hitler apparently.

But My side is many other coutries are free to test nukes...

It's North Korea. A radically isolationist country run by a whacko dictator influenced by Korean mysticism and Communism, and ready to attack South Korea at any point.

And So what if he refuses, if he refuses the next thing they will ask, can we send the UN in to have a look about, and then, sorry matey but we gunna have to disarm those bombs you have there... And that will leave him pretty much a sitting duck in a country thats pretty Screwed any way... He will then feel more of a need to prove him self and his power... Let him blow up his old mines and make Nuclar coal lumps... At least he is happy for now... (It would be like taking a new toy off a ranting bratt)...

If only, if only.

I don't really want you to agree... Just to say or may be think... hummm, I guess there could be some thing in it... yeah, Oil prices here just dropped, and there was no News Announcement or nothing it just Happened (Thats what Happend here Uleaded went from 98p per liter down to 87p per liter over night, and NOTHING was mentioned on the news as to why... but when it goes the other way (UP) then its all over the News like a rash...

Saying the war in Iraq was fought only for oil is a gross oversimplification. If all the US wanted there was oil, then it would ally with Saddam, not make him an enemy.

You didn't... Thats real odd... I can't find it in my PM Box either... may be I was dreaming it... Nah... Deffiently saw it... Black and White Cartoon... Whoever sent me it, if it wasn't you, said they have sent it to a few people so I guess some one on here will now how sent it... (For some reason the Crankeye Server seems to be down from around 10.30am till about 5pm GMT time, and some times bits seem to change... It could just be my connection )

Djangonator sent them. I guess one of the admin deleted it from your inbox?

Djangonator - Aint got a Clue wjho he is... Errr... Soz, I was Tired, I saw a long word made of letters that in my head looked like your name... At a glance... Soz... Dysleck-sick reading n shite...

I suppose saying that is the only reason is wrong, the other reason was to try and crush any funding the Taliban may have in Iraq, or make any of Eastern Country think twice before funding a terrorist faction against the states, I guess... Oh and may be as a Bonus over throw Saddam... When I saw how the Iraq's took to the streets in celebration and when interviewed they seemed Joyus of the falling of the towers, I did mkae me think they needed a darn good kicking... What happened that day sickend me to the core, it was so empty... it was a civillian building, yeah it controlled a large part of America, but it didn't Cripple America... It seemed pointless...

Lots that day seems a miss though... Like when the Air Traffic control lost cumminication with the planes or when they saw them diverting off cause why did no air-force planes shoot out the engines, or at least try and nock out the fuel tanks ?

There's loads Of sites I am sure you have all seen... like this one on the Pentagon:- http://www.freedomfiles.org/war/pentagon.htm

Now... I dunno why this would have all been made up, and its unfair to say it was, as pretty much every one in America knows some one who knows some one who lost some one that day if that makes sense... But you can also apply that same theory to me knowing you... here it is:- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Six_degrees_of_separation (Its boring but worth reading)...

Ok, that site about the Pentagon isn't reputable. Give me something I can trust.
Also, the American military doesn't generally make it a habit of shooting planes that aren't on track and have no communications. It all happened so quickly, there wasn't enough time to figure out what was going on and to neutralise the threat.

As for your Wikipedia article... uh?

...What is it with America and invading countries and what-not? WHAT HAPPENED TO THAT...thing that George Washington made... I think it was him... O.o; The whole 'We will not interfear with Eastern/European Affairs' ... Is it just me or has that never come to play in America? O_o;

America generally invades countries that it sees as a threat.
Also, I don't see how it's necessarily bad that a country wants to expand its influence. Sure, some particular actions (ie, the invasion of Iraq) are bad, but not all (such as Operation Enduring Freedom-Philippines, which focused on humanitarian affairs and helping Manila gain control of the Moro-dominated islands).

America generally invades countries that it sees as a threat.
Also, I don't see how it's necessarily bad that a country wants to expand its influence. Sure, some particular actions (ie, the invasion of Iraq) are bad, but not all (such as Operation Enduring Freedom-Philippines, which focused on humanitarian affairs and helping Manila gain control of the Moro-dominated islands).

I suppose... Don't get me wrong some times intervention may be needed... But a full scale thing like Iraq I think would be a bad move... The population is so dence, I am not sure striking key targets will be as easy as it was in Iraq... So may be the only real way in would be by ground... (I don't think bombing runs or air strikes will make it look like an intervention, more of a massacre)...

Going in on Ground will be hard... The fighters out their have FANTASTIC training, not saying the American's don't, the American's have better equipement... But I know I would not want to be a foot Solider going into NK...

The Cabinet must also see these complications and may be thats why they are waiting for more backing and evidence the push should go-a-head...

Actually you've completely proven my point. You have NOTHING intellegent to say, yet you act like a snoody retard.

Its "snooty". Also, I have plenty to say. An RPG Maker forum is just no place for me to try and prove my points. But personally, I think Korea has every right to test nuclear weapons, and the US has no reason to try and stop them. That would make the US hypocrites, being that we have nuclear capabilities ourselves. Arguing online brings about the worst side in everybody. Eventually, every debate ends up becoming fuel for drama. Just look at what happened to Jesus Hitler. Granted, he had a bad attitude from the start, and deserved what he got. My point is, it doesn't really matter what anybody thinks in here, unless someone is willing to try and productively make a change. Nipping at each others' beliefs is not very productive. And now that I've said my peace, continue with your debate, even though there will be no clear end to it.

Piece. The word you were looking for is piece. That aside, I totally agree.

So you have no problem with a crazy communist dictator developing nuklear weapons and aiming them at other countries?

I suppose... Don't get me wrong some times intervention may be needed... But a full scale thing like Iraq I think would be a bad move... The population is so dence, I am not sure striking key targets will be as easy as it was in Iraq... So may be the only real way in would be by ground... (I don't think bombing runs or air strikes will make it look like an intervention, more of a massacre)...

Going in on Ground will be hard... The fighters out their have FANTASTIC training, not saying the American's don't, the American's have better equipement... But I know I would not want to be a foot Solider going into NK...

The Cabinet must also see these complications and may be thats why they are waiting for more backing and evidence the push should go-a-head...

What? Iraq wasn't a mistake because it has complicated issues, but because, well, the invasion wasn't necessary. In fact, it did more harm than good!
North Korea, again, is a totally different situation. And taking control of North Korea would be much simpler than taking Iraq.

Also, I'd personally love to be a SEAL preparing the way for American and South Korean troops to invade NK, but that's just me

The North Korean Amy his would do any thing for their learder, they are fanatical... The will be told the American's are being hostile and invading... they will protect their country and rightly so...

This time you wont be facing armed Rebels like in Iraq... it would be the real deal a ground amy against a ground army... Yeah I doubt they will be a match for fire power... but they will be going all out to stop you from takling out their leader...

I doubt the conflict will last longer than a couple of months, and I think the people of North Korea will see it as an attack to liberate rather than an attack on their religion like some in Iraq do... This conflict wont get branded Unholy, so on that score your right this does differ...

But what I think is wrong about this is Bush is AS bad a leader as Kim Jon I mean... If Bush ran North Korea I bet he would be doing almost the same sort of nutty stuff...

This time you wont be facing armed Rebels like in Iraq... it would be the real deal a ground amy against a ground army... Yeah I doubt they will be a match for fire power... but they will be going all out to stop you from takling out their leader...

This is called conventional warfare, as opposed to unconvential (ie, Iraq). Conventional warfare is much easier than unconventional warfare.
Besides, NK troops aren't that well-fed, and are likely poor trained (although I could be wrong). I imagine their NCO class sucks as well, but again, this is pure speculation on my part. Anyone know anything about this?

This time you wont be facing armed Rebels like in Iraq... it would be the real deal a ground amy against a ground army... Yeah I doubt they will be a match for fire power... but they will be going all out to stop you from takling out their leader...

By no means, Bush doesn't operate death camps, reeducation facilities, and the such.

Army
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MSN7vZZZa44&mode=related&search=

A Bit on Kim Jong
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a74OMUpPBac&mode=related&search=

Korean TV Show
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dyknd8NHKrQ

Kid Learn to Fight in the Streets in Korea
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MmD_h0RiakY

Crazy Amry STuffage
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6DQzokgGS7g

Body Gaurd info for Kim Jong
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lxvsx4lMffk

Some of this is actually pretty cool stuff... There's loads more on You Tube

As for the army training videos, none of that showed is actually tactical training, combat training, or any of that. It just makes them good athletes.
As for the rest, you wasted my time. Thanks.

Well get ready for more of the same with my latest Video of me talking about how the world is Run:-

Why Leaders of Nations are Odd:-

I'm unable to watch this video right now, I'll have to do it later.
Tell me this though, is it worth my effort or just another joke?

Well its me talking pretty much the same sort of rubbish I type, so for you... Err No... But it does at least show I am being a little Sarcastic about the whole thing, and I don't just diss BUsh, but all world leaders... So may you would like to watch it... I don't know... Watch it, don't watch it... Not bothered, but its there...

I'm not reading 9 pages of the same stuff I probably agree with. I got enough from the first couple. And I agree with one point in particular:

America is an empire.

Unless we COMPLETELY pull out of Iraq, (COMPLETELY, none of this "we will just leave a few hunderd troops there for 'security' reasons"), THEN I will retract that statment.

If we go after N.Korea, then boom, (no pun intended), we have new Middle Eastern soil and far Eastern Asian soil.

From there, its simply about manipulating the land and resources to begin taking over the surrounding nations in the name of "Peace".

Then, after America owns almost all of Eurpoe and Asia, Canada is going to come down and beat our asses with bacon.

Armaggedon, The Apocolypse, Ragnarok, Judgment Day, WWIII,

Call it what you will. It's coming.

Well its me talking pretty much the same sort of rubbish I type, so for you... Err No... But it does at least show I am being a little Sarcastic about the whole thing, and I don't just diss BUsh, but all world leaders... So may you would like to watch it... I don't know... Watch it, don't watch it... Not bothered, but its there...

No offense, but I can't understand your accent well. Can you list me some important points?

America is an empire.

Is this supposed to be a surprise? Because, well, it isn't. America sure is one, but not in the sense you're thinking. Do you really think that they want to annex Iraq or North Korea? No, America's set on expanding its influence- in all the corners of the world.
Indeed, it does quite a bit of good- we're assisting the Yemeni government in actually solidifying control of his land and driving out al-Qaeda, training Colombian Special Forces to go out and destroy militias, defending Mongolia from Chinese imperialism, &c.
This being said, I think the invasion of Iraq was a bad idea; Iran was the country to invade. It had WMDs and a truly shitty regime, much worse than Saddam's IMO.
HOWEVER, pulling out of Iraq now will only complicate issues and make the lives of Iraqis worse.

I was about to go on some long rant but it looks like you've got everything covered here gonorrhoea. Carry on.

Is this supposed to be a surprise? Because, well, it isn't. America sure is one, but not in the sense you're thinking. Do you really think that they want to annex Iraq or North Korea? No, America's set on expanding its influence- in all the corners of the world.
Indeed, it does quite a bit of good- we're assisting the Yemeni government in actually solidifying control of his land and driving out al-Qaeda, training Colombian Special Forces to go out and destroy militias, defending Mongolia from Chinese imperialism, &c.
This being said, I think the invasion of Iraq was a bad idea; Iran was the country to invade. It had WMDs and a truly shitty regime, much worse than Saddam's IMO.
HOWEVER, pulling out of Iraq now will only complicate issues and make the lives of Iraqis worse.

I completely agree....to an extent.

I think that the spread of influence could, but not necessarily, lead to the annexation of land outside the U.S.

Spreading ideas is a good thing. Influence can also be a good thing. I support both of these ideas. But taking your ideals and cramming them down someone's throat is not the way to go about influencing the world.

As for withdrawing from Iraq, I think it would be a good idea. BUT, I also think that it should be done slowly and intelligently.

Slowly start to replace our troops with Iraqi militia and begin pulling out.

I don't think that their troops would do any worse than ours.

Thanks Giglamesh
- as an aside any mistakes you see here like no punctuation or anything is due to my computer acting up so i can"t use that stuff ill edit this entry later once i fix it up -
edits:
Alerith, for the most part, we aren't cramming our ideologies down other countries' throats; exceptions being Iraq and Afghanistan. But in these countries at least we did have some concern over terrorism, WMDs, and the such even if much of this turned out to be fallacious.
Iraq is highly underdeveloped and often Iraqi militias will flee scenes of danger and they just aren't prepared to take on the responsibility.
We have to stay in these countries for many more years before we can allow them to assume full responsibility.
And I don't see the us annexing any other lands in the near future.

Also, I have a question: Is it really that bad if America or one of the more developed powers were to annex, say Haiti, and provide stability, improve the economy, work to reduce crime, and other problems?
Is it so evil?
I've been pondering this myself.

The funny thing is about all of this, is the Americans trained the Taliban there by fueling terrorisum them selves... now they are gunna simular training to other Middle Eastern groups to defend them selves, but who's to say in say 10 years these troops also hate America for leaving and learn to fly planes...

3rd world countries need support not blowing to shite... they need aid and very little else... We should let them develope on their own, not force it... I mean we have very crap pasts (Slavery of Blacks, Executions, Witch hunts etc...) But we have giot their in the end, if you don't get to make and correct the istakes your selves you don't learn...

You can't change a countries value for Human life... especially when that country still stones Women to death for having an affair and the kids even join in... Its not gunna happen by over throwing leaders and so fourth, many will see it as an attack on their way of life... They hate the way in our countries Women are treated Equal, even the Women over their think the Women here are dogs and have no self respect... You can change none of that... and thats what makes these people Dangerous... Your trying to change their way of life through force and they don't want it at the end of the day as its all they know, and they hate the Western way, so SOD em... Some times you have to be cruel to be kind... Let them learn from history as we did...

also i have a question
is it really that bad if america or one of the more developed powers were to annex say haiti and provide stability improve the economy and work to reduce crime and other peoblems?
is it so evil?
ive been pondering this myself

As LoS has just said, you won't stop peoples opinions of human life. You can take over a country, enforce laws to act a certain way and all that, but you cant force people to think differently.

Thats why, although I wouldnt call it "evil", annexation wouldnt be a good idea simply because not everyone thinks the same as we do or our government does, and the annexation will only cause more problems within the nation.

I am not Allown on this any more... Brilliant !!!

And I think if we was to invade Korea the same thing would happen... a Majority of the people there would be un-happy... And who's to say that our way is the right way... I mean back to the stoning thing, if people got stinned for breaking their marriage and family apart may be pretty much every one I know would have the Parents they had at birth rather than a whole host of different Dad's...

The funny thing is about all of this, is the Americans trained the Taliban there by fueling terrorisum them selves... now they are gunna simular training to other Middle Eastern groups to defend them selves, but who's to say in say 10 years these troops also hate America for leaving and learn to fly planes...

America armed and supported Afghani militias in order to oppose the Soviets - all through history powers have made and broken alliances to support their own interests at the time.

3rd world countries need support not blowing to shite... they need aid and very little else... We should let them develope on their own, not force it... I mean we have very crap pasts (Slavery of Blacks, Executions, Witch hunts etc...) But we have giot their in the end, if you don't get to make and correct the istakes your selves you don't learn...

See, this is where you go wrong. Giving them money, food, whatever else will NOT solve the problem if they don't know how to handle it! We've been funnelling billions upon billions into third world countries, see the effects in Africa? Getting the aid to the right people in the right way (etc.) is more pertinent than just writing checks to greedy, corrupt governments.
Oh, and almost forgot to mention - giving them everything on a silver platter also won't help much. They need hands-on assistance in nation-building, although not necessarily invasion.

You can't change a countries value for Human life... especially when that country still stones Women to death for having an affair and the kids even join in...

Ok, this is too far. Cultural tolerance is great, I endorse it. But come on, really, doesn't it go a bit too far to support cultural traditions that end with innocent people being seriously wounded or even dead?

Your trying to change their way of life through force and they don't want it at the end of the day as its all they know, and they hate the Western way, so SOD em... Some times you have to be cruel to be kind... Let them learn from history as we did...

I'm not endorsing a complete change of any nation's culture. What I am endorsing is getting rid of a cruel, self-serving dictator and bringing peace and prosperity (or at least a decent life) to millions of Koreans.
God, I want to shout when you say that North Korean people starving is part of their way of life. Seriously here! That's a corrupt government robbing its people in order to serve its own interests regardless of the effects on its people.

Thats why, although I wouldnt call it "evil", annexation wouldnt be a good idea simply because not everyone thinks the same as we do or our government does, and the annexation will only cause more problems within the nation.

Well, not always. I'm sure the Mexicans or Haitians, for instance, wouldn't mind being part of a wealthy country (for the most part). It may be different for, say, the French or the Tunisians. But again, I'm not advocating a territorial empire of the sort I mentioned.

I am not Allown on this any more...

Don't worry, you're still losing.

And I think if we was to invade Korea the same thing would happen... a Majority of the people there would be un-happy...

I highly doubt that such a miserable people would be ill-pleased to be liberated from the cruel, arrogant dictator currently presiding over their every affair. I'm sure once they get the basic necessities of life and civil rights (presumably either under a new North Korean government or as part of South Korea) they'll be plenty happy about the American-SK invasion.

I highly doubt that such a miserable people would be ill-pleased to be liberated from the cruel, arrogant dictator currently presiding over their every affair. I'm sure once they get the basic necessities of life and civil rights (presumably either under a new North Korean government or as part of South Korea) they'll be plenty happy about the American-SK invasion.

But thats what we sort of thought when we removed Saddam. All his people would be glad to be rid of him. But it turns out that some people still viewed him as a good leader, or else we wouldnt still have some of the issues we are having in the middle east.

When you take over an area, you divide the people into 3 groups:

Loyalist: People who remain loyal to the old regime
Rebels: People who are trying to work with the new power
Neutrals: People who don't care either way but end up dying anyways.

HOW MANY TIMES MUST I SAY THAT IRAQ AND NORTH KOREA ARE IN NO WAY THE SAME FUCKING SITUATION!?
God, I've told LoS that 10 times and he doesn't seem to pay attention; and now Alerith jumps in without even reading the thread just to repeat the same tired old arguments.
Unless you two have some fresh arguments for me, I'm not going to post here any longer.

No need to get testy. I personally view it as the same situation. Threat of UMDs, our need to police the world, our insecurity and fear of other nations.

Different face, same situation.

You view it as you will, and ill view it as I will.

Same here I have said time over this is kind of the same sort of situation... (Not exactly the same, but fairly)

Its your opinion, and I have my own... I have listened to yours but don't agree... But don't let that stop you from posting your views...

I read this, so I know about the hardships North Korean's are facing and I know they need help:- http://hrw.org/doc/?t=asia&c=nkorea

I agree some thing needs doing, but nothing that will grow into a mini War... Nothing that envolves soilders going in... NOt sure how that should work... May be the Aid should go from USA to China and then China takes it to them, they trust China more so than the Western world... May be their local neighbours should help them, not some country half way across the globe away... I don't see why America has to stick its nose in every darn place and police the world... different laws different countries...

That's not the point. Guys, it's not the situation - threats of weapons, the American influential desires.
Iraq and North Korea are different due to the amount of human rights abuses, we've actually seen them demonstrate the use of their weapons, and the people, cultures, internal situations, etc. are highly different.

And, do you think that sending NK aid and talking to them endlessly will help matters? You know what happens when we send food off to Third World countries? Sure, some of it goes to the people. But the vast majority ends up in government (or in some cases, warlord, but that's irrelevant to NK) caches. As soon as the UN boys and girls have left a particular area to give aid, the people go back to starving. Jesus Hitler discussed this earlier in the thread.

Lastly, North Korea and China are not on the best of terms right now.

Things I see the same:-

Iraq and Korea share the following:-

Sadam "had mass Weapons of Destruction According to USA intelligence", so Does North Korea
Sadam used Tourture and exersized executions as he saw fit so does Kim
Sadam Upressed his people, so does Kim
Iraq has large Oil resurves, and Korea does "Rumoured, and Geologists Assume, based on the ground type"
Iraq had no countries whilling to back them up, neither does Korea (Perfect targets)
Both have a split population of around 60% / 40% of the people not backing their Leader
Both are 3rd Worldy in need of Aid an help, and Invading could be passed off as such

Yeah... so I guess if you rule out all of that then there is no difference what so ever...LOL

Nobody does any thing for free... and I am sure Bush has an alternative mission in mind... No country is going to send lots of soliders to their deaths for no reason but to help a country that shows no threat to their own way of life...

But North Korea DOES. I've mentioned before that we're much more certain about NK - they motherfucking tested it for the world to see. And not even Bush would invade a country that's just rumoured to have oil.
Also, Iraq had Syria. And North Korea is protected by China, who wouldn't be pleased with the Korean immigrant flood in their own country.

As for differences, I meant cultural and various others that are important- Iraq is fuelled by Islam-related violence, it is the perfect grounds for al-Qaeda and other terrorist organisations; furthermore, it has numerous tribal and ethnic divides. Where's North Korea's equivalent to Kurdistan, or the Shi'a and Sunni Muslims?

Sadam "had mass Weapons of Destruction According to USA intelligence", so Does North Korea

The Bush administration claimed that Saddam had "weapons of mass destruction" (I hate saying that) but a good portion of the population always knew that was horseshit. The North Korean regime actually does have them, and threatens to use them all the time.

Sadam used Tourture and exersized executions as he saw fit so does Kim
Sadam Upressed his people, so does Kim

So does every other dictator. You might as well say that both nations occupy land.

Iraq has large Oil resurves, and Korea does "Rumoured, and Geologists Assume, based on the ground type"

They maybe might have oil. You've continues to make that claim with next to no proof. Anyway, even if we would invade it would take years of scouting and construction before we could get anything from there.

Iraq had no countries whilling to back them up, neither does Korea (Perfect targets)

Perfect targets? So now we're justs picking random countries? If we were choosing easy targets, why not Sierra Leone? NK has one of the largest armies in the world, it is not an easy target by any stretch of the imagination.

Both have a split population of around 60% / 40% of the people not backing their Leader

North Korea does not have a split population.

Both are 3rd Worldy in need of Aid an help, and Invading could be passed off as such

Invading North Korea is aid.

---

I'll let you guess who wrote that.

You dop know that Bush is developing weapons Far Worst than Korea, and he has intent to use them... See the below link, or type in on google, you will find LOADS on this little Gem...

http://www.campaigniran.org/casmii/index.php?q=node/869

And should Korea be attacked, I am sure most imigrants will be placed in England... We love having them, they are great... 

Ok, I don't support bioterror weapons. Bush isn't the greatest President ever (what an understatement!), yeah. But that doesn't exactly placate Kim Jong-il's actions, either. Just because the US or an American of authority is doing something, doesn't mean it excuses other people doing similar things, y'know? (and I do hope that these biowarfare programmes are shut down by domestic/international pressures)

People have a tendency of running from a wartorn shithole to the nearest convenient locale. Hence, immigrant flood to China.

Bush is not THE worst president ever. (*ccough* Hoover)

I thought Colonel Klink was the worst president ever.......

I say When cuz its so gunna happen...

Korea has one of the largest untapped Oil resurves in the world... so obviously Bush is guuna want to make all his American citerzens fear Korea and see them as holders of Armourgeden... All the people in the USA are gunna be like "Oh God... Oh No please disarm this Dictator of Evil and remove the weapons of mass destruction"

COME ON !!!!... He set off a Nuke in a mine shaft.... America sets off Nukes in the Desert every so often... France set one off out at sea if I remember correctly... so whats the difference... Nothing...

The only reason people think the head of North Korea is nuts is he keeps him self to him self and wonty let America see if he has weapons of mass destruction...

But then again... I don't blame him...

I mean we sent UN officails into Iraq and they all said "There are no signs of any weapons" what happened next... SHOCK AND ORR... Nice... lets kill 2% of the whole population of people to rid the world of a massive threat to NOTHING !!!....

What the leader of Northern Korea needs do is make out he is ready for war... line up all the Nukes shells in a row... (don't arm them) get all the ships in port... and then Evacuate Korea and hid in the mountains with Bin Larden...

God I hate OIL and I hate greed masked in fear....

Any ways What I am gunna think is how will this all be looked at in say 50 years... and should I be called up to fight... it aint gunna happen... I will stay here in England and if the war hits our soil then I will go out fighting... But I wont envade a country for No Real Reason.... The leader of Korea doesn't want a war... he is just scared of looking weak in front of a monster... THINK ABOUT IT !!!

It sounds like, to me, that you want war or something. You want Korea to get armed for war and scare off America. Sorry, but that'd only make things worse.

Yep... I do want a War of some kind... Remove the a large percentage of the population and house prices will come down... The world is getting over crowded, I think there should be a War against people with an IQ less then 100... Cuz is my taxes that pay for them... But thats another debate... LOL

Nah... I don't want a War... (seriously)...

All I am saying is why are we so scared of Korea when the USA is as bad... I know Bush is not killing off his own people by Starvation, But Kim has no other choice, other countries wont trade with him... he has very little import and export... Killing an OAP of a leader may seem a great idea to you guys, but to me it seems Dumb... wasting millions of tax payers dollers to help a nation that doesn't really want to be helped (your only seeing life on the boarder area's, its like them showing images of tiny trailor area's in America and saying thats how they live, forced into caravans)... Think about it... Korea men (all of them) at the age of 15 get militry training and a wage packet... Its only small pockets of people that don't work that die... I know there should always be help for say single Mum's, Disabled people etc... those with reason, but not abled bodied people...

Any ways... I think time is our best weapon on North Korea... Let him die, let him get relaced and see what happens from then on... No channge then we start to act...

Believe it or not, the United States isn't a third world dictatorship. Comparing what happens in America to what happens to North Korea is insane and it shows that you have no fucking idea what you are talking about. We aren't seeing what goes on in the border areas because this isn't fucking Berlin and the divider between North and South Korea isn't a single wall but a two mile barrier that's heavily patrolled by both sides. What information we get comes from people like Red Cross workers and representative from other governments who visit the nation, and that information is almost all negative. There is no way out of that life, and joining the army only means that you'll probably get fed.

Also, why should we wait for one of Kim Jong-Il's sons to take his place? NK turned worse when KJL took power, and I don't see why we hould wait for it to happen again in 30 years.

im just gonna say i dont think it will happen

Interesting argument, Christina. I love how well-worded and eloquent it was!

I think the war will happen in around about 2.5 years when the Oil runs low in America and England:- http://dieoff.org/page140.htm
The decline will happen before 2010, but its already getting thin now...

And for those of you that think the War is not about Oil:- http://www.lewrockwell.com/rockwell/warforoil.html

Now Korea is said to have LOADS of Resurves:- http://www.kimsoft.com/1997/nk-oil3.htm


Ultra Santa - I was not comparing the American way of life, more so Bush to Kim... They are nearly as bad as each other... Bush is just as much a head-case as Kim... I know Korea is by far one of the worst places in the world to be at the moment:- http://www.state.gov/p/eap/rls/rm/2003/21269.htm

But I am more questioning Bush's Approach to this situation... I don't the think dropping bombs of the Public of Korea will help things much... I doubt a Ground invasion will happen, USA threatening to attack will cause Korea to respond by counter threats...

I think the war will happen in around about 2.5 years when the Oil runs low in America and England:- http://dieoff.org/page140.htm
The decline will happen before 2010, but its already getting thin now...

War for oil can never happen with North Korea unless there is some kind of oil producing infrastructure in the country, which there isn't. In fact, the latest I've heard about it is that there might be some oil somewhere in the country, and that as of 2004 a company was scouting for it. The same thing can be said for every other country with sea borders.

And for those of you that think the War is not about Oil:- http://www.lewrockwell.com/rockwell/warforoil.html

1) Well god forbid someone might have had an ulterior motive in invading Afghanistan. It's not as if Al-Qaeda was based in the fucking country or something.
2) This has nothing to do with North Korea.

Now Korea is said to have LOADS of Resurves:- http://www.kimsoft.com/1997/nk-oil3.htm

I believe it's been said again and again that that site is utterly worthless and can't be depended on to provide any useful information.

Ultra Santa - I was not comparing the American way of life, more so Bush to Kim... They are nearly as bad as each other... Bush is just as much a head-case as Kim...

No he isn't you retard.

I know Korea is by far one of the worst places in the world to be at the moment:- http://www.state.gov/p/eap/rls/rm/2003/21269.htm

You didn't know that a few pots ago, when you made NK sound like Seattle.

But I am more questioning Bush's Approach to this situation... I don't the think dropping bombs of the Public of Korea will help things much... I doubt a Ground invasion will happen, USA threatening to attack will cause Korea to respond by counter threats...

What approach? I don't think the US will be invading anytime soon. The North Koreans have mastered STFUing and it's not like we'll be able to expend any resources for war after the Iraqi insurgents finish mopping up our "boys" who are heroically wasting their lives.

No he isn't you retard.

- Why attack me for my Opinions Retard is Being Slow... I am far from that... unlike Bush:-

Animal Sex


Is his face Latex ?


Do these have Night Vision he asks ?


If any one is a Retard its Bush... And Bush is make some darn right nasty weapons... And when the Flood hit your coasts what did Bush do, did he send help... Nah... he sent tour buses... May be if the mass population of that area just so happened to be white he may have sent rescue teams... Sorry but I think Bush is a clot...

Why don't you respond to anything else in my post? Do you think that developing some "right nasty weapons" (as if he were a fucking mad scientist) makes him as bad as Kim Jong-Il? Does his irresponsibility make him as bad as Kim Jong-Il? George Bush is a bad president, nothing more.

You should be shot for every "funny" picture of Bush you've posted. That middle one count six times.

Oh, and why don't you respond to anything else in my post?

Oh, and why don't you respond to anything else in my post?

Sorry I didn't see the rule that I had to...     

But if you want me to...

War for oil can never happen with North Korea unless there is some kind of oil producing infrastructure in the country, which there isn't. In fact, the latest I've heard about it is that there might be some oil somewhere in the country, and that as of 2004 a company was scouting for it. The same thing can be said for every other country with sea borders.

Well When The USA over throw Kim then they can scout the land and set a new deal with the new leader, Food for Oil should they find what RESEARCHERS are saying to be True... Also North Korea has a stock pile greater than 14 million Barrels of oil any way... now that could fuel England for some time... so you guys will no doubt get our backing...

1) Well god forbid someone might have had an ulterior motive in invading Afghanistan. It's not as if Al-Qaeda was based in the fucking country or something.
2) This has nothing to do with North Korea.

1. Well then thats kind of a war on religion... in a way if its not for oil then is it effnic cleansing, I bet Bush would nuke the whole of the Arab world if he could get away with it...

2. It does if the country is rich in Oil or has 13 million barrels just sitting there:- http://www.hartford-hwp.com/archives/55a/161.html (Another link, not the same as the one in the prior list)

I believe it's been said again and again that that site is utterly worthless and can't be depended on to provide any useful information.

See 2. Above

You didn't know that a few pots ago, when you made NK sound like Seattle.

Have you watched the Film BIG, when Tom Hanks stops in a motel, and he is watching a TV show and people are being shot, he turns off the TV and the sounds are the same outside... Most world leaders would try and put a stop to this... But hold on, it's not happening in a white neighbourhood so who care's ?... Not Bush... or his Cabinet... So may be some of the area's of USA are no safer than area's of a 3rd world country... I can only go by what I read or watch on TV...

What approach? I don't think the US will be invading anytime soon. The North Koreans have mastered STFUing and it's not like we'll be able to expend any resources for war after the Iraqi insurgents finish mopping up our "boys" who are heroically wasting their lives.

See this link:- http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/10/09/AR2006100900419.html?nav=rss_world/asia

Now USA has helped stop any imports and exports from China to north Korea, even some food has been stopped making the problems in North Korea worst... Thats what the USA does, makes things Worst, then says "Oh, look at all that suffering, Lets stopping it by blowing the shit out of it"... Like when they left Saddam in control after the Gulf War and left him with strict weapons rules to adhere to knowing full well he was still in possetion of Skuds...

You have admitted Bush made a mistake with Iraq and now most American's also see his Error, but I bet when the war 1st kicked off pretty much all Americans had been fully behind him... Don't you think you/many American's may be wrong this time also...?
(Your only seeing what your goverment wants you to see)

I compare the two, as I can't think of many world leaders except Hitler who has invaded/planned to invade so many countries in such little time... (modern times)

Nobody does some thing for nothing, what has the USA got to gain from this ?

You should be shot for every "funny" picture of Bush you've posted. That middle one count six times.

Ah... thats so Very American of you... LOL (Sorry to all you none crazy gun nutty American's who may read this)

Are you by any chance Jesus Hitler...? your the same sort of Brain washed monkey if your not LOL
(You use the same amount of negativity in your posts and Swear or attack to push your opinions, your a very hostile sort of person)

ok to back myself up, i dont believe they wud instantly have a war just for oil. maybe make an agreement. you may not think its true, but i dont think the usa will take over everything because theyre strong enough, thats stupid.

This thing is going in circles....

Yeah it is a bit... I don't see why a war for oil is stupid...

Think what happens if we have no oil... how would it effect your life...?

Then think well if we run out then what...

Then think if I was a world leader what would I do...

And then you get to the point that I am at...

No Oil = No Heating, No Electric, No Fuel
Effect = We become almost a 3rd world country, and we will have to bargin with 3rd world countries
If I was a World leader = Rob the 3rd world countries before it obvious what I am up to, or develope a new fuel source... But if I am a really good leader I would do both... and thats what they are doing

Us now leaching Iraq's Oil fields:- http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/2890793.stm

Just look up Oil supplies for the western world on google see what you find...

Here's a link:- http://www.guardian.co.uk/oil/story/0,,1885478,00.html

Its happening already and our goverments are trying to slow it down... Who ever owns the main area's of Oil will be the richest country going... I don't think the USA want that country to be Iraq... And what the reports say about Korea's land holding so much oil and the fact they are holding 13 million barrels+ that makes them a nice Red Target... (And the fact they also have a pretty evil dictator)... All Bush needs is a little more backing and support or Kim to do some thing stupid and then Blam... Oil war number 2...

Thats what i think and so do a few others... do Research into oil... and how long predictions of Englands and the USA's Supply will last... I think you will start tro see a bigger picture...

So when America Attacks Korea I will think "could this be all over their Oil ?"

Well When
1. Well then thats kind of a war on religion... in a way if its not for oil then is it effnic cleansing, I bet Bush would nuke the whole of the Arab world if he could get away with it...

War on religion? What the fuck? Dude, al-Qaeda is an international terrorist organisation with quite a track record. And no, no he wouldn't. If only because the fallout'd be nasty.

2. It does if the country is rich in Oil or has 13 million barrels just sitting there:- http://www.hartford-hwp.com/archives/55a/161.html (Another link, not the same as the one in the prior list)

I'M GETTING DIZZY FROM CIRCLES AND CIRCLES AND MOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOORE CIRCLES!

Have you watched the Film BIG, when Tom Hanks stops in a motel, and he is watching a TV show and people are being shot, he turns off the TV and the sounds are the same outside... Most world leaders would try and put a stop to this... But hold on, it's not happening in a white neighbourhood so who care's ?... Not Bush... or his Cabinet... So may be some of the area's of USA are no safer than area's of a 3rd world country... I can only go by what I read or watch on TV...

...If I told you that this is a totally messed up, false perception, would you believe me? Or should I go more in-depth?

Now USA has helped stop any imports and exports from China to north Korea, even some food has been stopped making the problems in North Korea worst...

What? An EMBARGO? On an enemy state? THE US IS EVIL!

You have admitted Bush made a mistake with Iraq and now most American's also see his Error, but I bet when the war 1st kicked off pretty much all Americans had been fully behind him... Don't you think you/many American's may be wrong this time also...?
(Your only seeing what your goverment wants you to see)

Actually, plenty of Americans were against the invasion. As I have said. Several times.

I compare the two, as I can't think of many world leaders except Hitler who has invaded/planned to invade so many countries in such little time... (modern times)

Bush ~= Hitler ~= Stalin ~= Mao Zedung ~=...

Nobody does some thing for nothing, what has the USA got to gain from this ?

Eliminates an enemy state and replaces it with a nice friendly one to pick flowers with and play dress up?

Ah... thats so Very American of you... LOL (Sorry to all you none crazy gun nutty American's who may read this)

...

Are you by any chance Jesus Hitler...? your the same sort of Brain washed monkey if your not LOL

Actually he's an acquantaince of ours with quite an obsession with Jesus Hitler. The rumour mill flies with tales of homoerotic IM conversations, but I didn't tell you that!

LOS, you are so full of shit. You've come up with the dumbest arguments possible to support your ridiculous conspiracy theories and as soon as I went on sabbatical you trotted them out again after I so thoroughly smashed them and now you're acting even more ridiculous by ignoring the majority of my post and calling me a brainwashed monkey. You are the one who is acting brainwashed by ignoring everything that doesn't fit into your worldview and using ridiculous arguments and evidence which amounts to nothing to support your claims. SOrry to burst your bubble, but (as I and others have said before) America is not a homogeneous nation of Ted Nugents and Charleton Hestons who crave blood, nor are we hypnotized zombies who are completely submissive to the State. You are a caricature of an America-hating European and you hurt every anti-war cause there is just by opening your mouth.

America is not a homogeneous nation of Ted Nugents and Charleton Hestons who crave blood

Did you or did you not say I should be shot at least 6 times... Thats pretty Blood crazy to me... (Shooting some one doesn't even come to mind when I think I hurting some one, Most statements I read or films I watch, like American History X, results in some one being shot)

I will think what I like... I don't care how many times you say otherwise... There is a larger agender than liberating Korea... And if you think it's got some thing to do with their nearly half decent nuke test, then your wrong...

North Korea was a member of the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty, but announced a withdrawal on January 10, 2003 and did so that April. In February 2005 they claimed to possess functional nuclear weapons, though their lack of a test at the time led many experts to doubt the claim. However, in October 2006, North Korea stated that due to growing intimidation by the USA, it would conduct a nuclear test to confirm its nuclear status. North Korea reported a successful nuclear test on October 9, 2006. Most U.S. intelligence officials believe that North Korea did, in fact, test a nuclear device due to radioactive isotopes detected by U.S. aircraft; however, most agree that the test was probably only partially successful, having less than a kiloton in yield.[17]

Quote from here:- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_states_with_nuclear_weapons

I know Kim has Nukes and may be he has better ones than the one he tested... But I doubt he will ever use them, Unless he is intimidated further...

To think the only reason why we want to act, is to liberate his people would be narrow minded... He has treated his people as such for years, why wait until now...? And there are more people getting killed right now in China in the coal mines (3per day) than there is in Korea starving... Why not liberate them...? or stop the Genocide of the Tootsie tribes and so fourth... there are many other contries in far worst hardship than those starving in Korea... There's more Rat Children in India Starving than those in North Korea...

Yeah I know things will eventually get worst in North Korea as supplies and food is getting EXTREAMLY low... But they still have fertile land and forest area's, they can raise cattle and grow food, unlike some countries...

What I am saying is Starvation is happening world over and we give them aid... it happens in Korea we stop giving aid and then choose to threaten to invade... Why...?

Cuz they have a Nukes and missles... Who the heck doesn't have a nucular program of sorts... even Switzerland could start one up... You can buy Nukes from other countries whilling to sell:- http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/03/15/opinion/fenton/main606229.shtml

It's all a load of bollox... So I have got many a ground to base my views on... I am sorry if they clash with yours...

Say if I am wrong though... (In a fairy tale world)... And oil is not the agender then what is...?  (May be, just may be, Bin Larden is hidding there)...

America is not a homogeneous nation of Ted Nugents and Charleton Hestons who crave blood

Did you or did you not say I should be shot at least 6 times... Thats pretty Blood crazy to me... (Shooting some one doesn't even come to mind when I think I hurting some one, Most statements I read or films I watch, like American History X, results in some one being shot)

I will think what I like... I don't care how many times you say otherwise... There is a larger agender than liberating Korea... And if you think it's got some thing to do with their nearly half decent nuke test, then your wrong...

I love how you ignore the rest of the post and the part of an older post where I said that there was no way in hell North Korea was going to be invaded.

Wikipedia quote

Quote from here:- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_states_with_nuclear_weapons

I know Kim has Nukes and may be he has better ones than the one he tested... But I doubt he will ever use them, Unless he is intimidated further...

To think the only reason why we want to act, is to liberate his people would be narrow minded... He has treated his people as such for years, why wait until now...? And there are more people getting killed right now in China in the coal mines (3per day) than there is in Korea starving... Why not liberate them...? or stop the Genocide of the Tootsie tribes and so fourth... there are many other contries in far worst hardship than those starving in Korea... There's more Rat Children in India Starving than those in North Korea...

I've said that China is a hellhole which just barely rises above North Korea before, and do you really think only three people are dying from malnutrition in China or North Korea every day? The reason why NK should be done away with is that South Korea is the same country, only prosperous and free, which makes it obvious that the people in the north would actually benefit from a change in government (a reunification with the south) whereas the problems in Rwanda (I'm guessing that you meant to write "Tutsi" and that Tootsie Rollss are not named after an ethnic group) don't stem from a dysfunctional government and can't be solved in the same way.

Yeah I know things will eventually get worst in North Korea as supplies and food is getting EXTREAMLY low... But they still have fertile land and forest area's, they can raise cattle and grow food, unlike some countries...

They're getting enough food right now, but it's all taken by the government and saved for the army.

What I am saying is Starvation is happening world over and we give them aid... it happens in Korea we stop giving aid and then choose to threaten to invade... Why...?

Because, as so many have said, none of the aid actually gets to the people who need it.

Who the heck doesn't have a nucular program of sorts... even Switzerland could start one up..,

Most countries don't have nuclear programs.

Most countries don't have nuclear programs.

Did you read the Link ? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_states_with_nuclear_weapons

The people in Korea that are not getting the food are the people living in the hills and border towns and shanty like houses... The same sort of people that are not contributing to the countries growth... If I was a leader of a country going down hill I would feed those who are working before I feed those that are not, and no doubt adding to the countries decline... I know that sound barbaric... but its the truth in any county faced by the same situation... The Army is all they have left and thats under threat... What are their other options...

Feed the Army the bare minimum and give the the other share to those that don't work or earn money to get their own... Have a whole nation running on empty stomachs and fear an attack from a neighbouring state or Western enemy or keep your gaurd up high... All what needs to be done is increase the Aid, drop the threats, North Korea has a member in the UN's Council, Slowly encourage a safe Nucular power scheme for Kim help Developemnt rather than cut it back all he wants is what any country would want an equal standing in power to defend its people from those with weapons...

Like you American's Your Robbers pretty much all carry guns so you want the right to own your own for defence...

With an Army as good as Kim's why not have Nukes after all he has one of the best Amries in the world... (in the top ten)... He wont use it, and I doubt he will abuse it... And if he does then there's a GOOD reason to have a War...

What Korea needs is some sort of Assylum Process, a vetting process to take those skilled and able boddied but un suited to his land and place them in area's that need good workers, heck the Red cross could set some thing up and have those in Korea as Voulntry workers place them around the world giving them food and shelter and no pay, it would be a better life until they get a Visa in another country and settle there, or marry in...

May be I am not seeing things the same here as the rest of you... May be I don't have the full picture... I read 60,000 have died in the last 17 years... thats about 9 a day, but not all are from Starvation some are from untreated injuries and accidents (Un-timely deaths) reported by the Agency Good Friends... Approximately a 3rd are due to starvation they stated... Weather conditions and housing kills almost as many, land slides and flooding of hut like housing... Poor medical aid and help to those outside the main providence...

The Death Toll of Tutsi's is an Estimated Death Toll of 616,000 Thats 10 times worst... and its over a smaller time scale...

In comparrison to other countries on the sites I have looked at it's all small in scale...

Some states for interest on the USA:-

In 1999, there were 28,874 gun-related deaths in the United States - over 80 deaths every day. (Source: Hoyert DL, Arias E, Smith BL, Murphy SL, Kochanek, KD.  Deaths: Final Data for 1999. National Vital Statistics Reports. 2001;49 (.)

4% of 100,000 people in America are killed by a Gun, either by them selves or another each year... Thats a worst Epidemic than the starvation in North Korea...

Every country has states it doesn't like and those states can be pinned on the countries leader or just the way the people and times are... If America's gun laws are tighter or if Bullets Costed $100 each then may be this would not happen... Easy Fix... So why hasn't it been done ?... May be its your countries leaders fault, but I don't see any one wanting to invade and topple him...

Like here in England we have the highest rate of teen pregnantcy... and our leaders are not doing much about it apart from giving free housing and support after, there by fueling it rather than helping, is that promoting underage sex... and up sexual diesease... Should our Official on Education face the brunt of it...? or is it just the girls here are sluts...? people are people made by the media and role models they follow...

Those in Korea Starving are those that don't work... one day all countries may face the same issue... do we feed those that work or don't work...?

This world can't support the forever growing population for ever... We should learn from Korea what we can... Not saying its right buts its a forced and economic situation and its being delt with by some one that has more control and dedication of his people than any other country... I respect Kim, and North Koreans dedication to their leader (those that are working and helping growth)... and the fact they don't help those that don't help them selves... its a Brave and firm choice... Not that I back death of inocents and I know they don't deserve to die... We have the power to stop that, send in troops with the Aid for the people that need it, send the troops through South Korea...

War on religion? What the fuck? Dude, al-Qaeda is an international terrorist organisation with quite a track record. And no, no he wouldn't. If only because the fallout'd be nasty.

Yeah... So what was the point in the Iraq war then...? You still aint found Bin Larden, Al-Qaeda is winning... and you know what I said at the start of that war this would happen... its like when England tried to take America all those years ago... Never try and fight your enemy on their terms... it doesn't work... Its like a Bear jumping into the sea to kill a Shark, or Visa Versa... (A Shark Jumping from the Sea to kill a Bear)... The way to have won this War would have been to make large drilling heads on Bombs that burrow 20 meters then Detonate and drop about 500 of them in one air strike on the Tora-Bora Mountains... Not to bomb the populuse and walk about the streets that we made victims... There's a Good chance even Cizillians would take pot shots, and other factions other than the on targeted... MENTAL

Did you or did you not say I should be shot at least 6 times... Thats pretty Blood crazy to me... (Shooting some one doesn't even come to mind when I think I hurting some one, Most statements I read or films I watch, like American History X, results in some one being shot)

...He doesn't actually care if you're shot or not, you know.

To think the only reason why we want to act, is to liberate his people would be narrow minded... He has treated his people as such for years, why wait until now...? And there are more people getting killed right now in China in the coal mines (3per day) than there is in Korea starving... Why not liberate them...? or stop the Genocide of the Tootsie tribes and so fourth... there are many other contries in far worst hardship than those starving in Korea... There's more Rat Children in India Starving than those in North Korea...

You're right! We have more than one reason! We don't want to invade them as a war of liberation! We want to invade them to disarm a hostile, isolationist state that is a threat not only to us but some of our closest allies- South Korea and Japan.

Yeah I know things will eventually get worst in North Korea as supplies and food is getting EXTREAMLY low... But they still have fertile land and forest area's, they can raise cattle and grow food, unlike some countries...

Yeah, but they're not using it. They don't even have the money to buy farming tools.

What I am saying is Starvation is happening world over and we give them aid... it happens in Korea we stop giving aid and then choose to threaten to invade... Why...?

I live in a fairy tale world, too. In it, sending aid to poor countries helps the poor and starving and leads to wealthy nations.

Did you read the Link ? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_states_with_nuclear_weapons

So 9 out of 200 countries is most?
And most of these countries are generally peaceable folk, unlike North Korea.

If I was a leader of a country going down hill I would feed those who are working before I feed those that are not, and no doubt adding to the countries decline... I know that sound barbaric... but its the truth in any county faced by the same situation... The Army is all they have left and thats under threat... What are their other options...

There isn't that much work in North Korea, and most of the people are unskilled. It needs a good, humanitarian government; foreign investment; a liberal economic policy; etc.

All what needs to be done is increase the Aid, drop the threats, North Korea has a member in the UN's Council, Slowly encourage a safe Nucular power scheme for Kim help Developemnt rather than cut it back all he wants is what any country would want an equal standing in power to defend its people from those with weapons...

That will help none.

What Korea needs is some sort of Assylum Process, a vetting process to take those skilled and able boddied but un suited to his land and place them in area's that need good workers, heck the Red cross could set some thing up and have those in Korea as Voulntry workers place them around the world giving them food and shelter and no pay, it would be a better life until they get a Visa in another country and settle there, or marry in...

Kim Jong-il would never consent to this.

I read 60,000 have died in the last 17 years...

And you believe this? That only 60,000 have died in North Korea in the last 17 years? That is perhaps the most naive thing I have ever heard.

Every country has states it doesn't like and those states can be pinned on the countries leader or just the way the people and times are... If America's gun laws are tighter or if Bullets Costed $100 each then may be this would not happen... Easy Fix... So why hasn't it been done ?... May be its your countries leaders fault, but I don't see any one wanting to invade and topple him...

I don't think we need to get in a guns debate here, but I can assure you that illegitimising guns will not alleviate matters.

Like here in England we have the highest rate of teen pregnantcy... and our leaders are not doing much about it apart from giving free housing and support after, there by fueling it rather than helping, is that promoting underage sex... and up sexual diesease...

Teenagers have every right to engage in sexual activities with each other, assuming full consent on both (or more?) sides. Whether or not their parents, you, or the Puritans agree is irrelevant to governmental policy.

This world can't support the forever growing population for ever... We should learn from Korea what we can...

Yes, you're right. We should ration food, drinkable water, oil, and other resources. Sure, the death toll will be in billions but at least we'll have plenty of resources for our sickly children!

We have the power to stop that, send in troops with the Aid for the people that need it, send the troops through South Korea...

The North Korean government will be ill-pleased with foreign troops in his borders, for any purpose.

Yeah... So what was the point in the Iraq war then...? You still aint found Bin Larden, Al-Qaeda is winning...

al-Qaeda was in Afghanistan, not Iraq. The war in Iraq was fought/is being fought due to a variety of reasons, such as Saddam Hussein, and yes OIL, the WMDs that turned out not to be there (nonetheless, they were believed to be at the time, so whether or not they were in actuality there is irrelevant to the reasons for the war), etc.

Never try and fight your enemy on their terms... it doesn't work...

Oh shit, you've been reading about Vietnam haven't you!?

The way to have won this War would have been to make large drilling heads on Bombs that burrow 20 meters then Detonate and drop about 500 of them in one air strike on the Tora-Bora Mountains... Not to bomb the populuse and walk about the streets that we made victims... There's a Good chance even Cizillians would take pot shots, and other factions other than the on targeted... MENTAL

...

...He doesn't actually care if you're shot or not, you know.

Yeah, he is no doubt the sort of kid that walks into a school Matrix style... Heck may be you and Jesus Hitler could form a little mini death squad...   

And you believe this? That only 60,000 have died in North Korea in the last 17 years? That is perhaps the most naive thing I have ever heard.

It's the only info I can find... the figures are not public... These are figures I found from the Charity helping in the slum like area's, those worst effected... The Charity is saying things are extreamly bad, they are looking at a small area... so those figures are pretty high on the percentage of people being looked at... (Its 60,000 dead from poor living conditions IE Medical aid, Food, Adverse weather etc...)

We want to invade them to disarm a hostile, isolationist state that is a threat not only to us but some of our closest allies- South Korea and Japan.

OK say you Disarm them... Close down the Nucular program etc... Thats one less Nuke on the planet... I bet doing so you kill a couple of thousand Korea Soilders and they kill a few hundred Americans... If his other Nukes are as small a Yeld as the one tested I doubt it would cause that much deverstation, I bet it wouldn't even reach its target... I think you could be walking into another Iraq like situation, as the invation starts He will disarm and destroy all related material, if he has any... there is no proof he has more Nukes... And the one he did have he could have purchased off the black market, or slowly got the parts from China many years ago... Nobody knows if he is a threat or not at this stage... He is a Bloke waving a gun, that may be empty... Get better info before attacking thats all I really mean... else this will turn into another Iraq...

Yeah, but they're not using it. They don't even have the money to buy farming tools.

May be you should try going on a Holiday to North Korea:- http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/3113352.stm

It's Actually not all that bad a city and the people are Super friendly... they love their Leader...

North Korea Farming Photo's



I know the land is hard farm to due to Policy and % land that's arable... The Real issue of starvation is only now more real from the point NK disclosed they had Nukes:- http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/4072280.stm China and South Korea have stopped giving aid... It's Not just the Western world that was helping with Aid, the main sources have stopped... there is more people now starving in North Korea, thats why North Korea is now open to Holiday makers and Tourists to boost funds... more and more people are going... There is no easy solution apart from Kim to give up his Nukes any way, and allow the UN in... He may just do that should things start getting as bad as you and the news is suggesting... but so far they is no offical death toll from North Korea... Only Estimates, and the ones I found are the only ones to get published... So I don't know what your seeing in relation to my findings being greatly lower than your own... News Reports say Millions COULD starve... not that they are starving...

So 9 out of 200 countries is most?
And most of these countries are generally peaceable folk, unlike North Korea.

Scroll down, it shows those with Nucular programs and those caple of Nucular power... (It's no place near 200... but is a fair few... in Africa had Nucular power)

There isn't that much work in North Korea, and most of the people are unskilled

Some people are making a very health living in North Korea, there is a fair amount of work there, but your right the level of skilled workers is low... and to get a job there you need to be skilled and have a good education (of sorts)... What I am saying is if your born poor there you will die poor there, it's not really the land of oppertunity, and those wanting to flee are those that have nothing or nothing to offer North Korea...

Yes, you're right. We should ration food, drinkable water, oil, and other resources. Sure, the death toll will be in billions but at least we'll have plenty of resources for our sickly children!

You know what I mean... don't be a tit... I am saying one day every country will have to face a simular situation, and what then...? do we feed the disabled, the elderly or the children...? (I am saying its a hard choice to make, and a brave one)

I don't think we need to get in a guns debate here, but I can assure you that illegitimising guns will not alleviate matters.

I am trying to point out LOADS of people die in America due to poor Laws on Guns... May be more people die a gun related death in America than those from starvation in Korea... on average 87 people in a America per day get shot and a good rate of those die... If a Bullets cost $100 each (to the public) then would it still happen ? (Make you think before doing a drive by I guess)- And if shops only sold them in packets of Ten... It would make people use them in Extream conditions...

Kim Jong-il would never consent to this.

He might if they become X-communicated from Korea, and not allowed to return... and if he got paid a certain amount for each removed, like a Tax return from their wage of a few pence on every pound once they are earning...

The North Korean government will be ill-pleased with foreign troops in his borders, for any purpose.

Yeah not the best idea in the world... It would have to be a gradual build up of trust...

The war in Iraq was fought/is being fought due to a variety of reasons, such as Saddam Hussein, and yes OIL, the WMDs that turned out not to be there (nonetheless, they were believed to be at the time, so whether or not they were in actuality there is irrelevant to the reasons for the war), etc.

There was a report saying there is no real threat, and that was taken out of the final version, there was area's that COULD have housed Weapons... thats all the report said... Just like Korea COULD have more Nukes...

Oh shit, you've been reading about Vietnam haven't you!?

That War was a Slaughter... The war claimed perhaps 2-2.5 million Southeast Asian lives, a large number of whom were civilians.



Yeah... lets repeat that all over again...

You do know that what happend in Vietnam lead to one of the Uglyest bits of history ever... North Vietnam followed up its southern victory by first making Laos a virtual puppet state. Socialist fraternalism did not last long. The Khmer Rouge, who had historical territorial ambitions in Vietnam, began a series of border incursions that finally led to a Vietnamese invasion. The VPA onslaught overthrew Pol Pot's murderous regime and a pro-Vietnamese government was installed (see Third Indochina War). The U.S. did not recognise the new government of Cambodia, and, along with the United Nations, continued to consider the Khmer Rouge (perpetrators of the greatest genocide since the Second world War) as their ally. In 1979 the Chinese, furious with the Vietnamese for eliminating their Khmer Rouge allies, launched an invasion of Vietnam's northern provinces. After fighting to a stalemate, the Chinese withdrew.

So was Victory or not...?

...He doesn't actually care if you're shot or not, you know.

Yeah, he is no doubt the sort of kid that walks into a school Matrix style... Heck may be you and Jesus Hitler could form a little mini death squad...   

Fuck you.

We want to invade them to disarm a hostile, isolationist state that is a threat not only to us but some of our closest allies- South Korea and Japan.

OK say you Disarm them... Close down the Nucular program etc... Thats one less Nuke on the planet... I bet doing so you kill a couple of thousand Korea Soilders and they kill a few hundred Americans... If his other Nukes are as small a Yeld as the one tested I doubt it would cause that much deverstation, I bet it wouldn't even reach its target... I think you could be walking into another Iraq like situation, as the invation starts He will disarm and destroy all related material, if he has any... there is no proof he has more Nukes... And the one he did have he could have purchased off the black market, or slowly got the parts from China many years ago... Nobody knows if he is a threat or not at this stage... He is a Bloke waving a gun, that may be empty... Get better info before attacking thats all I really mean... else this will turn into another Iraq...

Stop comparing an invasion of NK to the invasion of Iraq because they're two totally different situations and we've said this again and again. The Chinese would never give NK a nuclear weapon.

Yeah, but they're not using it. They don't even have the money to buy farming tools.

May be you should try going on a Holiday to North Korea:- http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/3113352.stm

It's Actually not all that bad a city and the people are Super friendly... they love their Leader...

No shit the people in Pyongyang are friendly, the whole city is a Potemkin village.

I know the land is hard farm to due to Policy and % land that's arable... The Real issue of starvation is only now more real from the point NK disclosed they had Nukes:- http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/4072280.stm China and South Korea have stopped giving aid... It's Not just the Western world that was helping with Aid, the main sources have stopped... there is more people now starving in North Korea, thats why North Korea is now open to Holiday makers and Tourists to boost funds... more and more people are going... There is no easy solution apart from Kim to give up his Nukes any way, and allow the UN in... He may just do that should things start getting as bad as you and the news is suggesting... but so far they is no offical death toll from North Korea... Only Estimates, and the ones I found are the only ones to get published... So I don't know what your seeing in relation to my findings being greatly lower than your own... News Reports say Millions COULD starve... not that they are starving...

Tourism, foreign aid, death toll... what?

So 9 out of 200 countries is most?
And most of these countries are generally peaceable folk, unlike North Korea.

Scroll down, it shows those with Nucular programs and those caple of Nucular power... (It's no place near 200... but is a fair few... in Africa had Nucular power)

That doesn't mean shit.

There isn't that much work in North Korea, and most of the people are unskilled

Some people are making a very health living in North Korea, there is a fair amount of work there, but your right the level of skilled workers is low... and to get a job there you need to be skilled and have a good education (of sorts)... What I am saying is if your born poor there you will die poor there, it's not really the land of oppertunity, and those wanting to flee are those that have nothing or nothing to offer North Korea...

The people who are living well in NK are in the army or in the government.

Yes, you're right. We should ration food, drinkable water, oil, and other resources. Sure, the death toll will be in billions but at least we'll have plenty of resources for our sickly children!

You know what I mean... don't be a tit... I am saying one day every country will have to face a simular situation, and what then...? do we feed the disabled, the elderly or the children...? (I am saying its a hard choice to make, and a brave one)

Not true. Any country can stabilize its population size.

I don't think we need to get in a guns debate here, but I can assure you that illegitimising guns will not alleviate matters.

I am trying to point out LOADS of people die in America due to poor Laws on Guns... May be more people die a gun related death in America than those from starvation in Korea... on average 87 people in a America per day get shot and a good rate of those die... If a Bullets cost $100 each (to the public) then would it still happen ? (Make you think before doing a drive by I guess)- And if shops only sold them in packets of Ten... It would make people use them in Extream conditions...

You should also point out that America is HUGE and 87 people a day in a country of 300 million isn't that much. If bullets were $100 each all that would happen is a new black market would open up and bullets would pour into the country, thanks to, you know, that porous border we share with Mexico.

By the way, drive-bys are not the cause of mot gunshot deaths.

The war in Iraq was fought/is being fought due to a variety of reasons, such as Saddam Hussein, and yes OIL, the WMDs that turned out not to be there (nonetheless, they were believed to be at the time, so whether or not they were in actuality there is irrelevant to the reasons for the war), etc.

There was a report saying there is no real threat, and that was taken out of the final version, there was area's that COULD have housed Weapons... thats all the report said... Just like Korea COULD have more Nukes...

The difference being that Korea says it will make more nuclear weapons and will use said weapons if they went to war.

So was Victory or not...?

Okay, first of all you need to top copying text from other sites and putting them in your posts as if you wrote them. Second, nobody says the Vietnam War was a victory.

It's the only info I can find... the figures are not public... These are figures I found from the Charity helping in the slum like area's, those worst effected... The Charity is saying things are extreamly bad, they are looking at a small area... so those figures are pretty high on the percentage of people being looked at... (Its 60,000 dead from poor living conditions IE Medical aid, Food, Adverse weather etc...)

Yes, my apologies, I meant only that number from those circumstances (not in general). But, of course, data gathering by any party in that country will be difficult. Given the situation there, 60,000 people in the course of only 17 years... doesn't sound very realistic.

OK say you Disarm them... Close down the Nucular program etc... Thats one less Nuke on the planet... I bet doing so you kill a couple of thousand Korea Soilders and they kill a few hundred Americans...

Actually, my main concern isn't the nuclear weapons. It's the heavy artillery pointed at Seoul, and things of that sort.

May be you should try going on a Holiday to North Korea:- http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/3113352.stm

...

It's Actually not all that bad a city and the people are Super friendly... they love their Leader...

They're indoctrinated into believing North Korea is a nation like no other in greatness, of course they do.

North Korea Farming Photo's

This proves what? I want to see agricultural productivity rates go up, not pictures of the rare North Korean with a decent farming tool.

You know what I mean... don't be a tit...

Actually I didn't.

I am trying to point out LOADS of people die in America due to poor Laws on Guns... May be more people die a gun related death in America than those from starvation in Korea... on average 87 people in a America per day get shot and a good rate of those die... If a Bullets cost $100 each (to the public) then would it still happen ? (Make you think before doing a drive by I guess)- And if shops only sold them in packets of Ten... It would make people use them in Extream conditions...

Sensible people don't use registered weaponry anyways.

He might if they become X-communicated from Korea, and not allowed to return... and if he got paid a certain amount for each removed, like a Tax return from their wage of a few pence on every pound once they are earning...

I'm still not convinced.

Yeah not the best idea in the world... It would have to be a gradual build up of trust...

Kim Jong-il and his close descendants will have died before enough trust has been gained for that.

That War was a Slaughter... The war claimed perhaps 2-2.5 million Southeast Asian lives, a large number of whom were civilians.

<pic>

You have to understand the context of this picture. He was a Viet Cong, enemy soldier, being executed. The Vietnam War wasn't pretty, and both sides got their hands dirty with various atrocities (we could argue for hours about them, I'm sure). Not that this execution was an atrocity- I don't see how an execution is any worse than letting him go just to fight against the South Vietnamese later. Now where's the sense in that, hm?

Yeah... lets repeat that all over again...

A Second Korean War would be nothing like Vietnam, don't even try to compare them.

You do know that what happend in Vietnam lead to one of the Uglyest bits of history ever... North Vietnam followed up its southern victory by first making Laos a virtual puppet state. Socialist fraternalism did not last long. The Khmer Rouge, who had historical territorial ambitions in Vietnam, began a series of border incursions that finally led to a Vietnamese invasion. The VPA onslaught overthrew Pol Pot's murderous regime and a pro-Vietnamese government was installed (see Third Indochina War). The U.S. did not recognise the new government of Cambodia, and, along with the United Nations, continued to consider the Khmer Rouge (perpetrators of the greatest genocide since the Second world War) as their ally. In 1979 the Chinese, furious with the Vietnamese for eliminating their Khmer Rouge allies, launched an invasion of Vietnam's northern provinces. After fighting to a stalemate, the Chinese withdrew.

Thanks for the history lesson. In fact, the Vietnam War is one of my passions, albeit a horribly mismanaged war.

So was Victory or not...?

Anyone who claims the Vietnam War was a South Vietnamese victory is an idiot.

1st Ultra Santa  - I wont bother answering you while your being so Abrasive, your responces are one liners, If I was to respond I would get banned... 

(I am here to make RPG games and help others, not really here to type stuff on the world...)

Anyone who claims the Vietnam War was a South Vietnamese victory is an idiot.

May be I miss understood your reply and Quote on Quote on the last post... It's hard to declare any party a winner of a War... both sides always have their reasons for a War and both are usally heavily backed by their own people... History says we won the 1st and 2nd world wars... but the Jews still got moved out of Germany and many died, so in a result Hitler in part still won... It depends on what goals you look at... a war is very rarely won in its fullest... The War in Iraq for example... we over threw Saddam (Victory) We have not stopped Terrorisum in fact we have fueled it slightly (Loss)...

It will be the same in any war... to a degree... You win a little you lose a little...

This proves what? I want to see agricultural productivity rates go up, not pictures of the rare North Korean with a decent farming tool.

Actually I agree with you... on the Farming being hard, but not the tools as such... pretty much every one in North Korea owns a Bike, and that costs more than a Spade (in Simple terms)... http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/4072280.stm
North Korea is a fairly wealthy country, it's in less debt than the USA...

Actually, my main concern isn't the nuclear weapons. It's the heavy artillery pointed at Seoul, and things of that sort.

OK... thats a great Concern... I understand a little... But what I don't get is how you are not COncerned then about the USA developing Weapons with intent to use them ? (And these Weapons are deemed Illegal, unlike some bullistic missles)

See these links:-
http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/122006R.shtml
http://www.dissidentvoice.org/Dec06/Ross21.htm
http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0612/S00294.htm
http://www.campaigniran.org/casmii/index.php?q=node/869

Actually I didn't.

OK... you have a Man that can read and write, and can help make your country better - or you have a Woman who is pergnant, can't read nor write and is as thick as the day she turned 6... Who do you feed ?

Feeding the Man - could help in the future with gaining ground and may be further gaining food and resources, not feeding him will mean he will die...

Feeding the Woman - will show you have compassion to your people and have a respect for life... but the child wont help you gain any thing for a number of years...

Its a Hard choice to make...

If you still don't get it, then how's this:-

Do you feed an 8 year old child or and 80 year old person... Thats what I mean... Kim at the mo is making these decisions... mainly as he announced he had a Nucular power and a missle...

Sensible people don't use registered weaponry anyways.

Good point... so if your found with an unregistured Weapon then you get Locked up for 10 years (or some thing)...

I'm still not convinced.

I doubt it will work either... but before War I think all other avenue's should be explored... Human life is worth more than that...

Kim Jong-il and his close descendants will have died before enough trust has been gained for that.

They don't trust the West for good reasons... But if we can help reduce the problem they have, after all its the starving that are starving his country... and if ywe link the two, and keep force's to his boarder area's he may be more exceptant... IE when giving Aid we could vet those wanting to leave... But its a Fare fetch idea, I admit, It may not work... in-fact it holds very little chance... but a Chance is still a chance...

You have to understand the context of this picture

&

Thanks for the history lesson. In fact, the Vietnam War is one of my passions, albeit a horribly mismanaged war.

Actually thats one of my Fav photo's... it won an award... I know all about it and the time around it... and the only reason I copied and pasted from another site is I suck at wording things... It does not mean I don't know any thing... if it can be done better why not quote it ?

I never said the Photo was an atrocity... The Reason I like it is it shows how the value of life can be reduced just cuz your following orders from a Higher power... if I claimed to hear voices from God and killed you for example it does not make it any righter... This Photo holds so much from that period of time it would be wrong to hate it...

A Second Korean War would be nothing like Vietnam, don't even try to compare them.

Do you know that for sure ?... It could go any way... Nobody could have guessed how the Vietnam War could have gone or any other before that...

gonorrhoea - Your Opinions and take on all of this are very interesting, I guess you find mine interesting else you wouldn't reply... You know how you wrote:-

They're indoctrinated into believing North Korea is a nation like no other in greatness, of course they do.

Do you think you may also (In a very small way) being indoctrinated into thinking the way of life in Korea is so Bad thats its Evil or wrong ?... (I use the words Evil and Wrong as its used often in Media in the US)

A little bit like these Americans at this Church... Being drawn in by the word of God:-



The Noises one of the Church goers makes is the same other US Church founders (Speaking in tounges) its not even Hebrew... I am not meaning to offend you or American's in General... but just the minority and the ones that cause this stereo typing... Any one is open to minipulation of the mind, especially when you look up to them as a role model or farther figure... I wonder if thats why Preist insist you call them Farther ?... Head of State, Head of the House... Same sort of thing...

1st Ultra Santa  - I wont bother answering you while your being so Abrasive, your responces are one liners, If I was to respond I would get banned... 

No, you won't bother answering because you can't. Just because my answers are short does not mean they are any less significant than your meandering garbage.

(I am here to make RPG games and help others, not really here to type stuff on the world...)

Then get out of this subforum.

and the only reason I copied and pasted from another site is I suck at wording things... It does not mean I don't know any thing... if it can be done better why not quote it ?

You didn't quote it, you tried to slip it into your post as if you expected us to believe that you suddenly became literate.

The Noises one of the Church goers makes is the same other US Church founders (Speaking in tounges) its not even Hebrew... I am not meaning to offend you or American's in General... but just the minority and the ones that cause this stereo typing... Any one is open to minipulation of the mind, especially when you look up to them as a role model or farther figure... I wonder if thats why Preist insist you call them Farther ?... Head of State, Head of the House... Same sort of thing...

No it isn't. Anyone can leave their church and never come back. The indoctrination in NK is involuntary and mandatory.

What are you getting at by comparing Pentecostalism to the NK government? You say that you don't mean to offend Americans but you go out of your way to deride American culture and politics. I am no fan of George Bush but you think that I am a card-carrying Republican and you posted those idiotic pictures of Bush anyway. You continue to compare the United States to dictatorships and called me bloodthirsty. You've done nothing but offend.

You've done nothing but offend.

If your offended then I guess your in the Minority I am reffering too...

But You may have noticed by the title of the thread and my opening post I am not to keen on America's way of creating peace...

Blow up the prblem, problem solved... (In short)

Now when your heads of state choose to go against the UN and jump into a War that has not been fully backed then that makes you the Bad guys in my book... and England went along with it also... So I guess we are no better than you... but At least Blair is admitting we failed, Bush plans on sending more troops (or at least is keeping that as an open option)...

Sorry to keep drawing America into the topic, but they are a main feature to the thread hence the title... Heck I may aswell change the title soon... to "Why are Americans Blind and Narrow minded"

What comes as common sense to other nations, like Guns should not be given when you open a bank account... or Blowing up Cizillian tagets will create more terrorist in future years to come or Backing and funding a country against a Musslim State will be looked at as an attack on a religion rather than a Faction...

A nations terrorist are their Hero's...

Robin Hood was a Terrorist...

When you go in to kill a nations Hero you create Marters and role models for future Hero's...

Try looking at things if you was in Korea or Iraq... or any other place you want to create peace... and stamp out terror... the War on Terror can never be won... so you have already lost...

I know Korea is not a War on Terror, and I am loosing the point of the topic... What I am saying is:-

Why are only the American's planning on Invading Korea...?

China and South Korea could do it them selves if they wanted to...

...

I think the intelligent part of this debate has long since passed.

Your both entitled to your own opinions, but this is going a bit too far. You both need to calm down and get back to the main issue at hand, rather than flashing your e-penises.

Alerith  - May be your right... I mean North Korea has not feature in the news here in England for some time now...

A Mod can lock this topic if they wish now

Yes, I think this thread ha been pwnt to death.

The War in Iraq for example... we over threw Saddam (Victory) We have not stopped Terrorisum in fact we have fueled it slightly (Loss)...

Except there wasn't any significant level of terrorists in Iraq to begin with.

North Korea is a fairly wealthy country, it's in less debt than the USA...

And? North Korea also has a smaller GDP.

OK... thats a great Concern... I understand a little... But what I don't get is how you are not COncerned then about the USA developing Weapons with intent to use them ? (And these Weapons are deemed Illegal, unlike some bullistic missles)

See these links:-

See, bioterror weapons suck, yes. But I'm sure Bush just intends on 1) developing technology, 2) having something to intimidate other nations, 3) have an answer to any other bioterror programmes. Actually utilising these weapons would be a political nightmare.

Do you feed an 8 year old child or and 80 year old person... Thats what I mean... Kim at the mo is making these decisions... mainly as he announced he had a Nucular power and a missle...

Yes, okay, but Kim has a number of avenues to use in order to get his country to a decent living standard. But he doesn't. He builds controversial, rather unnecessary weapons... what a regard for his people!

Good point... so if your found with an unregistured Weapon then you get Locked up for 10 years (or some thing)...

Any good this would do would be negligible, unfortunately.

They don't trust the West for good reasons... But if we can help reduce the problem they have, after all its the starving that are starving his country... and if ywe link the two, and keep force's to his boarder area's he may be more exceptant... IE when giving Aid we could vet those wanting to leave... But its a Fare fetch idea, I admit, It may not work... in-fact it holds very little chance... but a Chance is still a chance...

Key phrase here: 'it holds very little chance' and I only allot this chance because I never say never (thanks to that one Disney film!!)

I never said the Photo was an atrocity... The Reason I like it is it shows how the value of life can be reduced just cuz your following orders from a Higher power... if I claimed to hear voices from God and killed you for example it does not make it any righter... This Photo holds so much from that period of time it would be wrong to hate it...

Okay, the situations are different. He was killing an enemy soldier- not a random kid because of orders. And I don't hate it.

Do you know that for sure ?... It could go any way... Nobody could have guessed how the Vietnam War could have gone or any other before that...

Because we know how to wage unconventional warfare now. Even if any guerilla operations open up, they'll likely be shortlived. And for the most part, they'd be South Korea's responsibility.

Do you think you may also (In a very small way) being indoctrinated into thinking the way of life in Korea is so Bad thats its Evil or wrong ?... (I use the words Evil and Wrong as its used often in Media in the US)

Do you think that the same could be said for you? Also, evil is objective.

edit- Alerith, don't worry. The thread wasn't intelligent at first, either.
Also, locking this thread would be teh suxx0rz

After Reading all that you have put I think you have some very Valid points, So if there is going to be a conflict the only way I can see it happening with any chance of being remotely for the better good is below:-

The liberation of North Korea should be attempted should we get the full picture of the numbers suffering through poor leadership. When the invasion starts key targets destroyed by air followed by ground troops with or with out support from the UN, China and South Korea... Depending on backing depends on the level of American forces required, therefore the invasion shouldn't be considered until we have an understanding on who will be backing the conflict and wont, also keeping in mind a great portion of the US forces are within Iraq and wont be pulled out until the level of unrest is down... When reaching dense cizillian area's extream care should be taken... The level of Friendly fire kept to a minimum and any soilder that does open fire unlaw-fully hurting or killing another soilder should be heavily punished and may face a prision term...

To be honest I don't think this is going to happen until Iraq is fully out of the picture of the media and the forces being with-drawn, uless it's going to be used as an excuse to drop the insergency in Iraq... And then I think if its obvious that its being used as a smoke screen it could all going very wrong...

What ever happens both with Korea and Iraq at the moment Bush has to watch his words and actions very closely, espeicailly with the magnatude of the cock up in Iraq he helped cause...

What Shouldn't happen is the attack going ahead regardless of the true facts being known on the level of the troubles in Korea, and sending in too less an army to contend with the ground force it will be facing, Being that the Korea Ground force is going to be large and fairly well trained the casulties on both sides will be high, and after Iraq thats the last thing US needs... I can see Kim (If your right about him having a very low respect for his own people's lives) using them as Human shields to a degree... or even arming them, forcing conscirption... I would hate to see a mass fall-out with the East should they see pictures of many dead inocent Korea's and drop backing if any is given...

I have a very split mind on this now... I still stick to the idea no War is ever Truely won, Goals on both sides are met so every party in a War wins a little and loose a fair amount... You loose things in a War you can never reclaim and you gain some thing within every War also... Pride... All Soilders no matter on what ever side are true Men and all Hero's...

Kim's Goals in this will be to prove America wrong in him being a threat or that he is GROSSLY letting his people suffer without hard proof... It will be to show his Army in its fullest and his Arsenal and Nucular capibilty to its up-most, If you attack expect his best... And he will no doubt try and paint the USA as worst he can, so he may even blow some of his own people up and claim the USA did it, and the final one is to keep his a Member of his family alive... With him having a fair few Goals he is most likely to claim a Win even if he looses his power and leadership...

USA's Goals over throw, Liberate the people, and re-oppiont a trusted leader for the better good of Korea... I think the Over throwing and Liberation may go OK, if handled right... but the Re-oppiontment always seems to go VERY wrong, History has point out we must be very care-full... America will need to show proof as to WHY the War was needed... And needs to keep Casulties to a low... Pretty Hard Goals...

My New Standing on this

All in all I agree the people of Korea should not have to suffer under his rule... But in the main Cities the people there fully back him and love their country, they blame the outside world to a degree for their hardships not their leader, helping them to realise that may hurt them more than we could ever know, helping them could destory them... And for that reason I still think this War would be wrong... If you take away every thing some body knows to be true they will never trust again...

But I do see your side of all of this, if we don't do some thing now it may not ever change, the people there could go on suffering under the rule of a New Kim-esc type ruler, after all if thats all they know then thats all they will breed... You have to break the chain of Violence at some stage to stop it repeating...

VERY HARD to agree totally on this subject... My resolving in Bush though goes on unchanged, he is still a Prick...LOL