Wedding Cakes and Freedom of Business

[bluntsword]

Full disclosure: I am a Christian Minister.

So I obviously have interest in this issue.

But before you call me a blind follower or hater of all people, know that I have an older brother who is gay and am friends with several who find my beliefs offensive or just weird.

Having said that, let's watch a video together, shall we?

[yt]RgWIhYAtan4[/yt]

Thoughts? Feelings? Overtly emotional rage wall of texts?

I found this video insightful to be honest.

[&&&&&&&&&&&&&]

Made it 1:30 in. False equivalences out the ass.
These gay people aren't walking in asking to have chocolate dildos put on their cakes.
Screw homophones.
Screw the people who passed this bill.

EDIT:
If a couple of breeders walked in and wanted a picture of a penis entering a vagina do  you think they would make that cake?
No. (Unless they were some specialist sex cake company.)
He uses the example of the lyrics that use the word nigger, they wouldn't do that cake as they would be offended or something stupid.
Now on the other hand a real example would be two blacks walking into a cake shop and saying, we'd like to buy a cake.
But then the shop owner saying "Sorry I can't make a cake of two blacks."
But if they say "Sorry I can't make a cake of two gays," oh that's fine whatever.

EDIT 2:
After you make the cake die in a pit.
shit this is all so stupid just make the god damn cake you pieces of shit

[bluntsword]

I kinda feel like I need to apologize Boe.

[&&&&&&&&&&&&&]

Huh? For what? You ain't done nothing.

[bluntsword]

I like dialogue and conversations. I'm not a big fan of causing undo anger. So if anger was unduly caused, I'm sorry.

If not, I apologize for my apology.

At which point, I sound Canadian.

[&&&&&&&&&&&&&]

It's all good man.

[strike]

if a business can't throw out someone for wearing a burka in their shop, why should businesses be able to refuse service to a same sex couple because they disagree with their life choices?

[Acolyte]

The thing is, he's basically arguing that since no one steps in and tells muslims to serve everyone, it's unfair to christians.
In my opinion, the muslim bakeries are the ones that need to serve gays. We shouldn't be giving everyone the right to be assholes just because one group is allowed it.

The whole "being forced to do something against their religion" thing is kinda bullshit, no offense. It's pretty common in the muslim community to treat women like second class citizens. Would it be right of them to refuse to serve a woman because of their religion?

Once you go the route of denying people service based on your personal opinions, what's to stop racists from denying blacks or hispanics? It's all the same mentality.

[Acolyte]

Made it 1:30 in. False equivalences out the ass.
These gay people aren't walking in asking to have chocolate dildos put on their cakes.

Also this. So. Much.
It doesn't violate anyone's rights to write a couple of names on a cake.

[strike]

seriously, this boils down to a "Christian" making a video complaining essentially "WHY DO THEY GET TO TELL GAYS TO GO ELSEWHERE, WHEN I CAN'T"

Baww why can't i discriminate like those damn brown people.

I think the world is ending because I agree with a youtube comment.

"Your argument here is a non-starter. I remember black and white water fountains, too. So what? This is the exact same issue as Jim Crow and Segregation: denial of full civil and legal rights to a certain group of citizens. Simple as that. And you're using all of the EXACT same arguments as the segregationists did in a sad attempt to justify your bigotry. "Around the corner from the religious persons bakery is another that will be THRILLED to take the money of the gay couple" - that's just "separate but equal" repackaged for suckers"

[Acolyte]

For the record, everyone's entitled to their opinions, and we still love you bluntsword. 

[yuyu!]

The idea of forcing someone to make a cake sounds weird to me, but the idea of people refusing to make cakes for discriminating reasons bothers me just as much. .___.

[Ryosis]

The idea of forcing someone to make a cake sounds weird to me, but the idea of people refusing to make cakes for discriminating reasons bothers me just as much. .___.

This is more or less where I'm sitting on this issue. On one hand, private businesses should have the right to refuse service, and by forcing their hand you're stripping them of that right. On the other, that inadvertently gives them the right to discriminate.

It's...touchy. Obviously, I don't think anyone should be discriminated against, for any reason. But at the same time, the thought of revoking the rights of private business doesn't sit well with me.

[pacdiggity]

The idea of forcing someone to make a cake sounds weird to me

are you really being forced if you're in the profession of making cakes for people and they're offering to pay you the same price as everyone else for making the same cake? should it be any different if two straight men walked in together and asked for a wedding cake?

i'm annoyed that there are people who think a person's sexuality should affect anyone else, or anything else about that person, really. if your job is to make a cake for people who want you to make cakes for them, it doesn't matter that your customer's lips touch the lips of someone of the same gender.

we shouldn't allow bigotry just because there are people over there who aren't bigots who will make your cake. that's stupid and also dumb.

if some people walk in to the place where you make cakes for people who want cakes then the only reason you have to deny those people their cake is if they're being a dick to you. cakes don't have a concept of sexuality and won't care if they're being made for gay people.

[Irock]

The idea of forcing someone to make a cake sounds weird to me

are you really being forced if you're in the profession of making cakes for people and they're offering to pay you the same price as everyone else for making the same cake?

I don't think it's anyone's place to define and dictate someone else's profession or business. They followed their own aspirations, started their own business and they own (or rent) the property their business is located at. It's theirs. If they want to refuse to create a gay cake because they think they're going to burn in hell for eternity otherwise, whatever. They're standing by their convictions, and consumers can stand by theirs by not doing business there. I think it should be a voluntary exchange for both parties.

That said, of course it's stupid to discriminate against gays. Religion is a sham.

[PhoenixFire]

I think it would be a very dangerous idea if I were to comment on this topic very much being that I am transgender, and with a woman, a Wiccan HPS, and very much against ANY type of segregation, based on sexual orientation, religious or political views, or anything even similar. On top if that, I myself am a small business owner, so, I'm sure you can all imagine my disgust and contempt towards these issues.

[yuyu!]

The idea of forcing someone to make a cake sounds weird to me

we shouldn't allow bigotry just because there are people over there who aren't bigots who will make your cake. that's stupid and also dumb.

I agree that discrimination against gay people (or anyone) is stupid, and that the baker should have just baked the cake. The question is: is it really our place to tell this guy what to do with his own business? If he wants to be a bigot, isn't that his right?  And we have the right to think he's a jerk for it.

[Acolyte]

I think if you're already offering a service, and the person utilizing said service hasn't specifically done anything legally wrong (i.e. being belligerent, asking for something obscene on the cake etc.) and you deny them service, that's discrimination.

If he wants to be a bigot, isn't that his right? 

Nobody's saying they have to change their opinions. They just can't let them affect their business practices.
Once your "rights" start infringing on other people's rights, then you can't have that "right" anymore.

[Acolyte]

I'll just leave this here:

Discrimination is treatment or consideration of, or making a distinction in favor of or against, a person or thing based on the group, class, or category to which that person or thing belongs rather than on individual merit. This includes treatment of an individual or group based on their actual or perceived membership in a certain group or social category, "in a way that is worse than the way people are usually treated". It involves the group's initial reaction or interaction, influencing the individual's actual behavior towards the group or the group leader, restricting members of one group from opportunities or privileges that are available to another group, leading to the exclusion of the individual or entities based on logical or irrational decision making.

[yuyu!]

Another thing to consider is that it's not a black and white issue. For that sort of scenario, I imagine you'd have to ascertain if malicious intent is present. The owners of the bakery in Indiana stated that they had no problems serving any customers, only designing cakes that had content that made them uncomfortable (including alcohol references). They even made it clear that they mean no disrespect by any of it.

That being said, there's bound to be good and bad apples in every tree. B(

[Acolyte]

Well, I suppose that's fair as long as they're not refusing their business completely. I guess it wouldn't be so different to a bakery not wanting to make a divorce cake or something.

[yuyu!]

Wait...divorce cakes are a thing ??

OH. What graphical google images. o_o

[pacdiggity]

The owners of the bakery in Indiana stated that they had no problems serving any customers, only designing cakes that had content that made them uncomfortable (including alcohol references). They even made it clear that they mean no disrespect by any of it.

No disrespect, but I'm unable to represent your sexuality on a goddamn cake because the physicality of it makes me uncomfortable to the point where I have to deny you service.

Is this the exact same as someone saying that they'll gladly serve a black couple unless they request black figurines?

[&&&&&&&&&&&&&]

what the hell is even a "gay cake"?

edit:
holy shit why did i think it would be ok to look at the comments?
do that many people actually agree with him?

where are we heading as a race, as a people
nowhere good

[yuyu!]

No disrespect, but I'm unable to represent your sexuality on a goddamn cake because the physicality of it makes me uncomfortable to the point where I have to deny you service.

It's "uncomfortable" for them in a sense that it disagrees with their religion. Of course that's going to seem weird to all of you (and me), because we don't find the idea of Gay Marriage to be uncomfortable at all. I wish they weren't uncomfortable with it, either, honestly. I think the only reason it's an issue is because a belief that the term "marriage" has a specific religious definition or something complicated like that.

But uhhh... I'm not really here to defend the religious perspective because I don't agree with it, either. ;( I'm pretty much of the same opinion as irock on this one.