Simplify

Wow, you went through all that with deadly precision. o.o You even got to the stickies (which I've been meaning to organize but keep forgetting to ).

Honestly, I would be happy with all of the above changes. Hell, I'd even be willing to take a crack at it if no one else wants to. B)

Oh yeah, the "what are you eating" topics should be merged. They were started as some sort of joke in IRC that I can't remember and we meant to merge them at some point but I guess we forgot.

PREPARE FOR THE PURGE



ohwait.. you said merge... carry on~

We're going to get a couple more opinions before going ahead with this. B)

But as it stands, it looks like this is the current sketch.

Sorry I haven't posted here yet, but I think this clean up is a good idea. Specifically, I like what Strike said. The only things I would add are the following.

• I know that News & Updates is tied to the homepage, and that Featured Projects is too. However, I wouldn't mind merging News & Updates into Forum Announcements, and just having everything in Forum Announcements show up on the homepage. However, I'm not sure about the logistics of that. As for Featured Projects, I like that it is tied to something on the homepage, but I think if it's to stick around we should actually feature projects once in a while.
  
  
• I see no reason for the Polling Booth to be a child board of Board Support/Feedback. It hasn't had a new post in it for 2 years, and I don't really think it adds anything. I see no reason the Polls can't just be done in the main Board Support/Feedback Board.
  
  
• I kind of like having the Discussion Archives up at the top. It can be a nice introduction to the community, and its prominence is not a bad thing. That said, we should probably be making more of an effort to actually archive some of the good topics we've had. If anyone has any suggestions, feel free to post a link in this topic and I can move them.
  
  
• If we do move the Discussion Archives to another location, I think the Awards should go with them. I don't see a good reason to separate them.
  
  
• I don't think Ask a Stereotype! should be put in the Archives, because I don't think the topics are good enough that they should be archived. Rather, I think we should just move all the topics into General Chat and abolish the Board altogether.
  
  
• I don't think we should archive Forum Games for the same reason. I wouldn't mind it being a child board of Community, but given its inactivity I also think its topics could just be moved into the general Community board and delete the board.
  
  
• I think RMRK Game Creation could be cleaned up (for instance, the separate boards for Event Systems have not worked out, and it might be best just to merge them all into one and use tags). I'd need to think about it more though and so I might post about them later.
  
  
• I would not opposing merging Game Maker with Other Game Making. It has not had a lot of activity recently.
  
  
• For Trading, I agree with the earlier suggestion that we delete all the child boards and just put them all in one general board. I also wouldn't be opposed to getting rid of it altogether.
  
  
• I like merging News and ED and making it a child of General Chat.
  
  
• I also like keeping Creativity as a stand alone category. If we were to change it, I'd say we could just make it a single board without children under RMRK General, and have all the topics alongside one another.
  
  
• I'm OK with merging General Chat and Community. I do like the theory behind having a residual board and can imagine some topics which would be weird to put under Community (like talking about engines or something), but there isn't a lot of distinction in practice.
  
  
• I don't mind merging video games and entertainment, though I don't think their separation hurts either. Given our demographic, video games probably do interest more members than other forms of entertainment, and has certainly generated more topics. However, seeing that both are fairly inactive, I can see why a merger might be a good idea.
  
  
• I also approve of moving all hidden boards into a separate category at the bottom, including RMRK Advanced and that stuff.
  
  
• As I've said on other occasions, I would be happy if some things were not only unspeakable but also non-existent.

Of course, those are only suggestions, and I'm happy to go along with just what Strike has.

As I've said on other occasions, I would be happy if some things were not only unspeakable but also non-existent.

It's gone

As I've said on other occasions, I would be happy if some things were not only unspeakable but also non-existent.

It's gone

haha, thanks.

I see no reason for the Polling Booth to be a child board of Board Support/Feedback.

We have a polling booth? Huh... That should probably go.

I also like keeping Creativity as a stand alone category. If we were to change it, I'd say we could just make it a single board without children under RMRK General, and have all the topics alongside one another.

Creativity started out as its own board rather than a category with separate boards for each facet. It was decided to split it up after a while because it just became too messy having music, art, writing, and everything else covered under one roof, and I think that if we were to merge it all again it would be the same. Only this time there is quite a lot more music topics posted than there were back then, so that would start to dominate over the rest. I agree with everything else you've said though.

I haven't been here as long as everyone else, but having been here since 2006 I can at least note that most of the boards came about because there was a need for them. I can understand reorganizing some of them under parent boards, but once we start merging boards together I get the feeling we're just going to run into the same problem that warranted creating those boards to begin with. Especially in terms of the creative boards and the entertainment ones.

But I also don't really think anyone is posting enough anymore for it to make much of a difference either way, so take it or leave it.

I'd also like to note that if we create several parent boards it makes it much easier for users to minimize the particular sections that don't interest them, thereby "cleaning up" the home page to their own personal liking.

I haven't been here as long as everyone else, but having been here since 2006 I can at least note that most of the boards came about because there was a need for them.

still it's one of those things, needs always change over time

. I can understand reorganizing some of them under parent boards, but once we start merging boards together I get the feeling we're just going to run into the same problem that warranted creating those boards to begin with.

we might but we might also find a better way to deal with those problems rather than just making yet another subforum to eventually abandon.

Especially in terms of the creative boards and the entertainment ones.

That's the main reason we shouldn't fuck with the creativity boards, the different artistic disciplines are different enough that having them all in one parent board would make it hard navigate.

 I understand the apprehension about merging videogames with other entertainment. most of us are gamers, not all of us are super into watching TV. but what it comes down to is those topics could be side by side because it's just a discussion of media sources.

But I also don't really think anyone is posting enough anymore for it to make much of a difference either way, so take it or leave it.

Which is exactly the reason the forums should change a bit. Activity isn't just dying because we locked sign ups or because the official enterbrain forums or whatever are more popular now. it's dying off because we aren't pruning unneeded stuff and pushing new members and lurkers to get engaged in the community.

having so many different places to start threads and having no idea where to post certain things because there's several different areas a topic could plausibly go has to be offputting to new members. Think of RMRK as Alaska right now, loads of people in it but spread out over a really large area.

When I first joined the forums, I admit that I was daunted by all the different places to post and it got really confusing. ;_;

That's the main reason we shouldn't fuck with the creativity boards, the different artistic disciplines are different enough that having them all in one parent board would make it hard navigate

I am in total agreement with this.

Yeah, I think Creativity is fine as it is.

I see your point Malson, but I think it mainly depends on activity more than anything else. For some things (like music or whatever), organizing them into separate boards make sense for the sake of navigability. When I want to find a thread, I know where to look. But for other things like Entertainment, it would be rare that anyone would be looking for a thread about some TV show that was last posted in a year ago. The main reason for separate boards in those cases is activity-related, and if only the first five topics have been posted in for the last 6 months, I don't really see the need for a separate board. The result is just that those threads are quarantined and are seen by less people. If the need should arise again in the future, it is easy enough to just re-create the board.

Having thought about it more, I don't have many ideas for the Game Creation boards. I feel like the Resources boards haven't done a great job of encouraging activity, but I don't see a way to change it that would make much sense. The only thing I would think would be making it its own category with the main board being separated as a straight request board, but that might just create more clutter.

I wouldn't mind doing something about Projects either. I think it might be worthwhile to combine the New Projects and Substantial Projects into one WIP board. I haven't really been keeping on top of it, and anyway I think the distinction makes more sense in theory than it does in practice. Without much activity, at best it merely discourages people from looking at new projects, which means that those people receive less feedback and thereby provides no incentive to keep updating their project on this site. If it doesn't do that, then the distinction is pointless and is just a make-work project for moderation - work that nobody does.

Beyond that, I would just combine all the separate maker boards for Event Systems into one. I've tagged all the threads in there with the maker to ease that transition if that's what we decide to do.

I also think we can dissolve the Scripting Seminar board since I never gave that idea the attention it needed. I think we could also move those topics into the main board.

And again, I think dissolving the Game Maker board into Other Game Making Programs is fine too, but I would add [GM] tags to those topics before we do if that is what we decide.

tbh modern the rm boards are your bread and butter and i think youd know what was best for them.

i just feel like we would be best served by leaving much of the rm stuff the same and focusing on making it easier to navigate by(and this would be a load of work) implementing a more comprehensive hub for scripts and event systems and resources, in a thread in a parent board maybe not sure where we'd put it, categorizing them into stuff like

===scripts===
 -turn based combat 
 -real time combat
 -leveling systems
===event systems=== 
 -menus and functions
 -crafting
===resources===
 -tilesets
 -facesets 
 -etc

i know we kinda have something of that sort but more of us need to work at it and get it organized. we cant leave all of this on moderns shoulders all the time

EDIT: http://rmrk.net/index.php/topic,45402.0.html this would be even better if from here you got shunted to a related sticky indexing and categorizing the stuff in them maybe

I'm for the idea of merging New and Substantial projects together into WIP Projects.

I'm for the idea of merging New and Substantial projects together into WIP Projects.

Hmm... yes.

But Strike, I'd say the scripts are organised very well. In fact, and going off of what you wrote, I'd say organise the event systems in the same way (easy for me to say, I'm not a mod.)

And if I'm not mistaken, aren't the resources already organised in that fashion? More or less?

well basically what i think we need to do is create and maintain an index for each program so maybe it can be simpler to find the types of systems and resources you want as opposed to changing the actual organization of the boards

but then i'm just tossing out one idea not saying it's the best or that it's even good

I guess I didn't explain very well. What I meant was that RMRK General would benefit from being separated into parent boards. I don't know what the technical SMF term is for that, but it's the bracketed subsections of the home page containing the boards. Like Announcements, Creativity, et cetera. I have Game Creation minimized on the home page because it's not something I pay attention to at all, so it makes the front page a lot cleaner and more geared towards my interests. Separating RMRK General into, say, RMRK Entertainment, RMRK Community, RMRK Miscellanea, and so on will not only organize these particular boards but also allow users to "clean up" the boards to their own choosing by minimizing those which they do not frequent. That's not to say that some boards wouldn't benefit from just ceasing to exist, but getting rid of something like Video Games doesn't make any sense to me because that's a large common interest almost all of us share.

I also don't personally like the idea of sub forums at all outside of Game Creation but that's just me.

we aren't "getting rid" of videogames, we're just thinking about merging it with entertainment because they're similar topics and both boards are dead all the time

they have maybe 10 threads between them that aren't stickies that have posts in them in the last 60 days.

I hate to say it, but it's similar to marketing RMRK. So many of our boards look DEAD AND INACTIVE it pushes lurkers away from posting and we want more activity.

This is a major concern. For example think way, WAY back to...fuck. I think it was RMRK.org? It was a temporary forum Roph set up while he got all the shit from crankeye's forums transferred over to what would eventually become RMRK. Because there was literally nothing, posting shot up like crazy. There was total freedom to bring up a topic because it was all new ground. Then the old content got merged in and all of that momentum kept things running for a long, long while. That's why people like irock, myself, etc have an insanely high post count. We were all here during that phase, and it set a tone.

Of course that's also where that port wine shit came from, so it's a bit of a double edged sword. But one edge is certainly more keen than the other.

As for creativity, I cast my vote, it's fine as it is in my opinion- but that appears to be the consensus regardless.

RMRK DOES need some clean up, it's true. A soft reboot of sorts. Yes, we have topics for lots of things. The what are you eating for breakfast thread. The here's my confession thread. But if we archive all of those really big, really old threads, and spur a new iteration of them into being, post rates would very likely increase.

Think of "ITT: We have the highest number of posts". That thread slowed down after a while. Then Roph archived it (or nuked it, or it got locked or something) and a new one was made...and that new thread went turbo speed for a while.

Anyhow, this is a lot of rambling at ...oddly enough, 4:20 AM. Just some thoughts.

I hate to say it, but it's similar to marketing RMRK. So many of our boards look DEAD AND INACTIVE it pushes lurkers away from posting and we want more activity.

This sounds very reasonable.

Alright, so I merged Event Systems and also deleted the Scripting Seminar

For merging Substantial and New Projects, I was thinking we should make that the basic Projects Board and have Finished Projects be a child Board, rather than the other way around. Any objections? If we do it the other way around, what should we call it? I think "Projects in Progress" might work, but I would be open to suggestions.

Also, there are some projects in Substantial which haven't been posted in for 7 years. On the one hand, they're obviously abandoned. On the other hand, they could still be fun to play through if they have a demo. I think I will move any project that hasn't been posted in for at least two years to Abandoned, unless it is has a working demo. Any objections?

For the rest, I will make some of these changes tonight. My understanding of the consensus is this:

• Disperse Polling Board topics into Forum Announcements and Delete
• Merge Game Maker into Other Game Making Programs
• Merge In the News and Elitist Debate into "News & Debate"
• Disperse Ask a Stereotype & Forum Games topics into Community and delete them.
• Create New Category for Secret Boards and move EA, RMRK Advanced, Greek Project, etc. to it.
• Strike's Sticky suggestions

Things still under discussion are the following:

• Anything else to do with RM Boards - Resources, Scripts, etc.
• Merge Community and General Chat into "Community Chat"
• Make "News & Debate" a child board of Community Chat
• Disperse topics in the child boards of Trading into the parent and delete the children.
• Merging Video Games and Entertainment into "Video Games & Entertainment"
• Creating new Categories to allow minimization rather than total deletion (Malson's suggestion)
• Archiving strategies (please suggest some topics - I might go through Forum Games and Ask a Stereotype and link to any I think should be archived instead of dispersed)

Please let me know if I am wrong about any of the consensus changes before tonight. Also, I may have missed things, so please point them out to me.

Also, should the Trading board be moved to the hidden boards section? It is technically hidden since only people above a certain post threshold can see it.

I'd also suggest raising the post count requirement for trading and poster board.

For merging Substantial and New Projects, I was thinking we should make that the basic Projects Board and have Finished Projects be a child Board, rather than the other way around. Any objections? If we do it the other way around, what should we call it? I think "Projects in Progress" might work, but I would be open to suggestions.

Man, where would we be without you, Modern? ;_;

I actually really like the idea of having finished projects as a child board. It always threw me off that they were the first ones I saw for some reason. I'm okay with "Projects in Progress" or maybe "WIP Projects" or something.

I'd also suggest raising the post count requirement for trading and poster board.

^ Agreed. Especially for RMRK trading. ._. We don't want anyone seeing our super, dark corner (now that the other super-dark corner has been eliminated).