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Feminism

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Unsure if this is for here.

Right, everyone has seen the massive influx of feminism in the news, mainly targeting video games, and the Tropes vs women on kickstarter.

But i wanted to link the the blog of the women who started the kickstarter and get your guys opinion.


http://evebitfirst.wordpress.com/2011/05/18/a-man-is-a-rape-supporter-if/


honestly, i think she has problems, i was wondering your's guys?

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Feminism as a whole is dumb.

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Feminism is dumb. I have never met a feminist who has truly wanted equality, they want to be worshiped for having a vag.

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I've never met a pleasant feminist either, and this one doesn't seem nice either. Any ladies wanna pitch in, though?

... just wondering
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Feminism is dumb. I have never met a feminist who has truly wanted equality, they want to be worshiped for having a vag.

Pretty much this. I'm all for treating men and women equally, but that's not what feminists want.
:tinysmile:

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Did you get that from FB? Redwyn I think, posted it this morning.

I'm starting to get sick of feminism. Seriously, never met a bigger bunch of ignorant, bigoted and rude people in my life.

I'm all for equality but they make me feel ill, some of the stuff they believe.


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Let's start Manism.

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Did you get that from FB? Redwyn I think, posted it this morning.

I'm starting to get sick of feminism. Seriously, never met a bigger bunch of ignorant, bigoted and rude people in my life.

I'm all for equality but they make me feel ill, some of the stuff they believe.

No, i found it in the many Feminism discussions, read some out, then i made a youtube video just talking about it, i found most of the list funny. 

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I actually got the link, from Link [haha :v] during our skype chats. However, I found this last year; I just pushed it out of my mind.

I'll just leave this here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=geQyrBGS_60&list=UUjNxszyFPasDdRoD9J6X-sw&index=105&feature=plcp

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The author of that blog is a marxist, and therefore is examining the aspects of gender-bias in culture from a marxist perspective (the situation of domination and submission, who benefits--as the consumer--and who is being exploited), and, ultimately concludes that there are elements of patriarchal culture which encourage undesired behavior. In this, she is correct, and I understand pretty much all of her arguments by the school of thought they are based in. And it is always interesting, and perhaps even helpful, to know (or at least consider) why one does or think something and  why that action is thought to be, or is thought not to be, acceptable. The article has its merits, but I do have my issues with the author.

I've read other articles on her blog, and articles he has linked to. I don't like invalidating assessments. Even though I think she does wrong in the way she strictly defines subjects of "love", "consent", and "dysfunction" in her own terms, ignoring how others define them for themselves (her article criticizing another feminist for her BDSM fetishism is a good example of this).

While I would not attempt to define the first two, the use of the phrase "dysfunction" has always been an interesting subject for me. As someone who has severe social anxiety and is mildly paranoid-schizophrenic, "dysfunction" has meant that something interferes with your ability to function. If you can cope with that thing, and find ways to enjoy life/self, then, well, you can hardly be called "dysfunctional" for you are, in fact, "functional".

However, I understand that her argument would have been something along the lines of the Marxist view that just because something is "functional" doesn't make it "right".

As a final note, and this is the one that could get me in trouble with her (or even people on here, maybe), I would like to address that, as someone who is training to be a professional actor, I've been taught that he measure of any interaction is a.) "what the person wants, and b.) "what that person is doing to the other person to convince them to give it to them". She talks about emotional and social manipulation. In my worldview, every interaction (including healthy sexual activity) involves coercion of some form. It should be mutual, but people are always working on each other for one thing or another. Relationships and sex are one of those things. So, how do we define what is "healthy" coercion, and what isn't? I'm not so sure there's a way to define that which would be applicable to everyone, though, there's certainly forms of bad coercion which are wrong for anyone.

In my experience, it is easier to define chaos than to define what order is; what is evil rather than what is good, and I'm not really sure that defining one would automatically define the opposite.

But that's me. I don't know anything, really. I've come to grips with the fact that I don't ever have any answers. I just thought I'd weigh in with something other than "feminism is dumb."

EDIT: And one more question is biting at me has to do with her criticism of the BDSM fetishist. She argues that the fetishist gets a sexual high out of BDSM because she, in her own words, was abused. It was her way of coping with and conquering that fear by reliving it. To make sure we understand: even the woman who is in BDSM is saying this is the case.

How that relates to me, and the existential/philosophical question it brings up has to do with my career as an actor. As I said before, I experience severe anxiety in social settings, with people (especially women). I grew up in almost total isolation. I am one of the last people who would want to be an actor and would pursue it (maybe). To me, though, it gives me a high because it allows me to cope and conquer that fear. To me, people would say that was healthy.

Why, then, is my coping mechanism and ability to get a rush from something that has traumatized me for most of my life, considered good, but hers is "unhealthy" and makes her a victim?

Someone might argue it is because she is a victim, then, of the patriarchal society, and, I cannot argue that. But I can say this: so am I. I didn't meet the standards of the patriarchal society, and still don't. I didn't match the ideal male persona and so was used in a way by other men to establish their own meeting of this critirea. So, idk, in my mind, I don't see it as different. But I do wonder if I am missing the part that makes it so. And if so, why?

At what point (and perhaps here I do get preachy) do we accept that we all have bullshit in our lives and whatever we do to make ourselves happy and to cope is good, as long as we aren't destroying our ability to function (only helping it) or hurting anyone else.

Of course the marxist like her (or the marxist in me) would argue that the things we do in society are always harming others by way of implicit consent, and that is a valid way of looking at things in terms of cause and effect.

*shrugs*
« Last Edit: June 16, 2012, 11:12:17 PM by dudeguy119 »

I support:



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He discusses the “types” of women he finds sexually appealing and/or attempts to demean women by telling them he does not find them sexually appealing.
That's dumb. There's a few others in the list that are dumb too, but this is the goofiest.

Anyway, discussing feminism and sexism is really boring. The person made some valid points, but it's all a bit of a slippery slope so whatever.

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I'm really not sure why this board exists anymore.

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If I was able, I would rename it Video Games 2. Only no casuals would be allowed entrance, so it would just be me.

I probably should have written more about it. dudeguy119 made bakas of us all.

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it seems this is on the same level as religion debates.

This board needs a new mod.

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Feminism isn't the problem, it's the people that take it in the wrong direction, just like any other philosophy or belief. You can't hate an idea because of the people that twist it into a bad direction.

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Okay, so I, for the most part, cannot stand feminists. And this list of "rape-supporters" is just bullshit... It degrades men in general and is so broad and vague it basically calls ALL MEN rape-supporters which is just wrong. So then I guess I am totally a rape supporter! GO RAPE.


Fuck this list...  fuck these types of supporters and anyone who legitimately believe this list is right...


It's all nonsense...
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Okay, I'm actually going to throw my two cents with what Acolyte says.

Feminism isn't the problem, it's the people that take it in the wrong direction, just like any other philosophy or belief. You can't hate an idea because of the people that twist it into a bad direction.

I think she's right. There are some crazy feminists out there. The idea itself of feminism itself isn't any different then many other groups. There's going to be those few crazies that expect to be handed everything from any group, and take "equality" to beyond.

Okay, so I, for the most part, cannot stand feminists. And this list of "rape-supporters" is just bullshit... It degrades men in general and is so broad and vague it basically calls ALL MEN rape-supporters which is just wrong. So then I guess I am totally a rape supporter! GO RAPE.


Fuck this list...  fuck these types of supporters and anyone who legitimately believe this list is right...


It's all nonsense...

Friend, I will be honest in saying that your response is a bit puzzling to me! ;9 I promise I don't mean any harm, but I'm just going to shoot for my honesty, now. This isn't really about that lady's views, but more about yours. Welp, here goes.

I think its a little unfair when you told me once:
"I'm not really affected when a female character dies in a game", but you admit to crying over some male game character deaths, multiple times. O.o I know you have a lot of respect for men but, while saying "fuck this" to feminist views? Maybe that's not true, but that's how I kinda took this whole thing. After you said that thing about not being affected by female deaths, it kinda bothered me. And now, you're saying how much feminists bother you.

Not sure how true this is or not, but this is made from assumption: A lot of lesbians are feminists, and you have a lot of support for the gay-rights movement. (Which is just fine, they deserve their rights - I'm all for that). But, why do you hate all feminists "for the most part", but then dislike it when someone has issues with homosexuality? It makes little sense to me.

I don't believe in what that woman says, I'm just stating the irony.
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because hating feminists is almost always justified because of their stupidity and unwarranted self-importance.

not to say hating gay-bashers isn't.
« Last Edit: June 17, 2012, 06:51:51 AM by Firerain »

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Feminism is stupid because it isn't even a thing. Equality is a thing.

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Holkeye, I agree and disagree with that last bit. Yes, equality should be the end goal. However, feminism still can be (and I would say is) a thing with that in mind. Feminists are just those who work to ensure that females specifically are treated equally.

Feminists, I think, are not nearly the problem. Feminism at its base is a noble endeavor that I can support.

The bad part is the loud part, and the part we deal with most often: extremists. There are plenty of those in the ranks of feminists and sadly that is what they are commonly known for- and that works against them, I think. People, males especially, are significantly less willing to listen to aggressive and offensive individuals than they are to those who work peacefully (but no less affirmatively) to achieve their goals.

A major component of the whole issue being attacked here is that men hold greater power in key elements of society and that women are forced into a handicap of sorts (vastly abridged summary, I'm aware). That said, making those in power frustrated enough that they turn a deaf ear to the cause will only hinder the progress of feminists. There's not really any going around the current system of predominantly male policy makers and officials. You have to work through it and within it, and that means persuasion. Not rage.

I think that this is obvious to any intelligent individual, and the key figures who began the women's rights movement were certainly intelligent individuals themselves. It's the mob that came afterward that flubbed a lot of it up. Any movement will be used by narrow minded and angry people as a vehicle for their ignorance.

It boils down to this: a lot of you, I think, do not hate feminists any more than you hate any individual who wants a fair shake at life. You hate morons.

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It's like saying you hate animal rights because PETA exists.

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I hate PETA because PETA exists.

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PETA is an organization, feminism is an ideology. The two aren't comparable. If anything, it should be comparing vegans to feminists.

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I hate PETA because PETA exists.

Feminism definition as defined by http://www.merriam-webster.com to support my statement.

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1: the theory of the political, economic, and social equality of the sexes
2: organized activity on behalf of women's rights and interests

Feminism as an ideology isn't bad.  Women that take it that step further to be treated as the dominant sex is bad.  Feminists fall under the same rules as every other group in that there will always be a few asshats in the bunch that will ruin it for the others.  Some feminists lose their grasp (or never had a grasp to begin with) on what it is they are trying to achieve and that is what gives the whole group a bad name.

The article is totally a slam against men (and women) saying that we support rape.  They didn't think their article through and apparently still have no clue what is wrong with their statements. 
I am out of fucks to give.  In fact, I think you owe ME some fucks.  I have insufficient fucks in the fucking account.

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I think she's right. There are some crazy feminists out there. The idea itself of feminism itself isn't any different then many other groups. There's going to be those few crazies that expect to be handed everything from any group, and take "equality" to beyond.

There's quite a bit more than a few, otherwise, who would care?

Not sure how true this is or not, but this is made from assumption: A lot of lesbians are feminists, and you have a lot of support for the gay-rights movement.

Not to step into a debate that has nothing to do with me, but a lot of those lesbian feminists are the kind of crazy people we're talking about to begin with. Just because she supports gay rights, and a some gay women are feminists, doesn't mean there's a contradiction there. That's like saying it's a contradiction for someone to, let's say, not support the death penalty, but is in support of a particular group of people. And let's say that many of that group of people do support the death penalty. They're two separate issues. You can be in support of a group getting the rights they deserve, and still have different ideologies.

And it's not even different ideologies in this case. Surely everyone who has posted here is for equality. It's the lunatics - the group of people that call themselves feminists - that we're against.

The rest of what you said is between you two.

Feminists, I think, are not nearly the problem. Feminism at its base is a noble endeavor that I can support.

I think that this is obvious to any intelligent individual, and the key figures who began the women's rights movement were certainly intelligent individuals themselves. It's the mob that came afterward that flubbed a lot of it up. Any movement will be used by narrow minded and angry people as a vehicle for their ignorance.

It boils down to this: a lot of you, I think, do not hate feminists any more than you hate any individual who wants a fair shake at life. You hate morons.

Sure, in the beginning everything was working well, and it's the angry crazies that came afterwards that give feminism a bad name. It's kind of like what has happened to many environmental movements. But, that's kind of the point. I'm sure it would be wrong to say that most feminists are the type of women we're discussing, the hypocritical, men-hating, violent type. I'm sure there are plenty of women who consider themselves feminists but don't hate men just because they have a penis. Majority or not, the crazies are the ones getting the attention, and they're the ones shaping what feminism is becoming and what society's view of feminists and feminism itself is. Oh, and let's not forget all the fallacious "studies" done by feminist groups to support their hatred of men and male-dominated society.

So if you want, argue that this is an issue of bad labeling; that we shouldn't group both sorts of feminists under the same label. At the same time, this extreme side of feminism is really what feminism has become. It's mostly loud angry women saying loud angry misguided things that are completely ridiculous.

But you are right, I do hate morons.
:tinysmile: