[VX] Amulet of Athos: Legend of the Sarian Knights

[Aurelia]

To tell you the truth, I'm not a big fan of this project. You had a, seriously, VERY long and boring introduction, yet at the same time almost nothing is said about the main playable characters, so it's like you fed player a bunch of useless information right before the game even started :/ Many part of the introduction is also very redundant and a pain to read through.


That makes me wonder, commercial games don't do that, great novels also don't do that, so where did you (and a lot of other developers I see) learn to handle game opening like this? Even how nice the game graphic may look, you killed the player's mood to play by your poorly handled introduction right away. But at least, the introduction is skippable, so that's an up point about it.


On a different note, I find the clash of the VX and XP trees horrible. It doesn't make the map more lively, if anything, the clash is a pain to look at. I see you went through trouble to make the trees in the same palette, but they are different styles, total different styles, so all your work are in vain.


No offense, but looking at projects like this kinda make me miss the older rpg projects where people care more about gameplay and story than graphic (this is said upon the appearance of some pretty looking games which is absolutely no fun to play through, at all >_>)

[Ak47]

@WeirdGameMaker: Thank you for you comments, and I am glad you appreciate the graphics.

@Aurelia: Got to love the haters , The majority of people seemed to like the intro accept for some very impatient people, thats why the skip intro option was added.

Regarding the trees, there was only one map in the OLD DEMO with a mix of xp and vx trees and that is a very minor thing, nothing to have a heart attack over. Plus the game is getting a visual overhaul, have you even seen the new screens?

And you say the gameplay was poor too? LOL. That was commented to be one of the best areas of the demo on most of the sites where i posted it. 

[Aurelia]

EDIT: I had a tl;dr in the end if anyone is too lazy to read through such a long wall of text. Don't mind me, I'm a girl, of course I'm verbose

... It just saddened me to see people without common sense to differentiate b'ween hating and constructive comments, and base themselves on a few praises to think that their work is without flaws. My comment on your game is based on around 10-15 minutes of playing through before pressing alt+f4, not much time but the first 10 minutes is crucial of showing how much your game appealed to your audience, in my case, me.


If it helps, I wouldn't consider myself as "very impatient". I'm big fan of various RM Episodes, which is sort of using RM to make movies/tell stories in episodes instead of making a playable game, which used to be popular during the rmxp.NET time. I could sit through the episodes for hour and still find them enjoyable, eventhough all of them were just cutscene and all I had to do was pressing Enter to go to next dialogue, not a very entertaining task.


What I don't like about your introduction is simply how poorly it is made. You shown the player a bunch of back story that has nothing to do with the main characters I got to control. Why would I care about the history of a nameless world I didn't even know? There is a rule that many good books/good games/good movies follow, is that, make the audience familiar/get fond of the characters before showing them the back story. There are novels which don't do that, but it takes a lot of writing talent to pull it off. In your case, you simply just failed to capture my interest.


Take Twice Upon a Hero for example, the opening is rather simple, Alistair and co. were chasing someone, and wanted that person to pay his life for something he did before. That is short, and simple, and make me completely curious, and want to continue playing the game. Another example, take Master of the Wind (I always use MotW as example for fine game making and story writing, because simply, it is  ). During the game, there will be a part where you gotta attend a school and sit through history lessons, something boring as it sounds, it was made when the players are familiar and interested in the game's world (also partly due to how Volrath steps by steps increased audience's interest), so the history lessons turned out to be something very fun to play through. That's something people would want to play.


Another problem with your opening, is your writing itself needs improvement. Many of the sentences itself are, as I mentioned before, redundant and a chore to read through. Take examples, right the first opening sentences:



For the past two years the world of Alardria has witnessed the re-emergence of an old nemesis ... The Hellborn.

Vile creatures who were thought to have spawned from the depths of Hell, thus given the name Hellborn.


It doesn't take a genius writer to see how boring the two sentences sound, as you keep pressing "Hellborn" "hellborn" "Hellborn" all over. It's repeated in many various CONSECUTIVE sentences after that, which is just simply superfluous. This is not the only case, various other parts BADLY needs rewriting and proofreading, that's why I complained.


For your "trees", let me tell you one thing: It does not take a genius to guess I'm commenting on your demo, be it OLD or NEW. If it is so out-dated and does not reflect the current game at all, take it down. If it's still there, it means it still connects to the game, still reflect how the game is, then I can comment on any part of the demo that I don't like. And minor or not, it's totally subjective. It's minor to you, that's why you use it. But it hurts my eyes, that's why I hate it. And I comment on that because I think you could improve and make it better. It's that simple.
And yes, I couldn't bring myself to make my character went through the first map - since the intro turned me off - that's why I don't know if you also use xp/vx maps in other maps.

Lastly, by gameplay, I totally mean anything can be played through in the game, and the poor gameplay I gave you, is your introduction. I don't know how brilliantly you designed the puzzles afterward, I couldn't care less after the prologue.


That's all to it. Don't mind me if there is any part that sounds offensive, I don't do it purposely, but things need to be said should be said.



tl;dr: The prologue of your game is poorly written, and is boring due to the fact that nobody cares about a world they know nothing of or feel any connection to it. The writing itself also needs a lot of improvement due to redundancy (and other things I didn't bother to write in)

[Ak47]

Wow so much text. "My comment on your game is based on around 10-15 minutes"
I thought so, that explains everything.
You cant judge a 4 hour demo by playing only 15 minutes, which was mainly the intro.

Why must reviewers finnish the game before they review it?
It would help If you complete the demo like most of the others did and then see if you still feel the same.

And it's obvious you don't understand what is ment by gameplay, so your gameplay comment is also invalid.

And about the intro, that is your opinion and that is absolutely fine, most others seemed to like it.
But i do agree it's too long and some things needs re-phrasing.
The intro is going to be playable in the new version with a few more tweaks.

Sorry i quickly read through your post, I'll give it some more time later. But I suggest you finnish any demo before you decide to judge it.

[Aurelia]

I had to admit, you got me cracking on the floor when you said this:

You can't judge a 4 hour demo by playing only 15 minutes, which was mainly the intro

Is it THAT necessary for me to explain every single LITTLE detail for you to understand? I don't do review, for God's sake. I said it VERY clear on TOP of the second comment (Since I figured you wouldn't understand something so SIMPLE, and somehow it doesn't feel good even though I'm right), it's a CONSTRUCTIVE COMMENT based on whatever I got to see from your game. I don't do a full review, because your game FAILED to keep me interested to stay until the end. All of the reason is because of the prologue. I don't judge your game, I judge your intro. Quote me a single sentence that judged your game any where outside the prologue and the first map that I played, pretty please?


For what is gameplay, I don't think it's necessary to say many things. As I said above, you kinda lack common sense when it comes to vocabulary, so I will quote its definition for you, so you can stop your whining.

Gameplay is interaction with a game (in particular, video game) through its rules, connection between player and the game, challengesand overcoming them, plot and player's connection with it. Video game gameplay is distinct from graphics, or audio elements.
Source from here

If you still say my "understanding" on gameplay is incorrect, it's not my fault that you can't comprehend reading material that is of junior high level.

Your comments obviously show the attitude of someone so sore to accept negative comments, and deliberately trying to disagree with whatever criticisms thrown at you, which is not even funny. So this will be the end to what I have to say There's no fun in talking to people who seriously lack common sense and an open mind to accept negative comments :3

[Ak47]

"To tell you the truth, I'm not a big fan of this project"
Then you say
"I don't judge your game, I judge your intro."

You should have mentioned that before, that you base your judgment only on the intro itself and not the full demo.
I am aware that there are some flaws with the intro mainly being the wording/phrasing and the length, which is why, like i said is being redone. But most people seem to like it the way it is, so it's not my number 1 priority at the moment.

Anyway thanks for your feedback the issues you mentioned are known of already.
And I do welcome constructive criticism, that is what has improved the game tremendously since the early days. Constructive feedback from many people whom have taken the effort to complete the demo has allowed me to identify and improve on many of the flaws.

If you want to talk about the remainder of the demo after the intro which is like 90% of it, I'm listening.

[Gracie]

You're being extremely arrogant. No offence. I'm less inclined to play your demo after seeing your pettiness in regards to Aurelia's comments. Learn to take criticism and don't dismiss it just because you don't like what she's saying.

[modern algebra]

And I do welcome constructive criticism, this is what has improved the game tremendously since the early days. Constructive feedback from many people whom have taken the effort to complete the demo has allowed me to identify and improve on many of the flaws.

If you want to talk about the remainder of the demo after the intro which is like 90% of it, I'm listening.

I don't really see how that's arrogant. It seems like quite a good attitude toward criticism. Constructive criticism is always helpful and I don't think Aurelia did anything wrong (it's perfectly valid to quit a game if the intro sucks and considerate of her to tell the creator she thought so), but the author isn't arrogant just because he/she rejects the advice - it's Ak47's game and ultimately it's his/her decision whether or not to conform to the recommendations.

It seems to me that it was just a misunderstanding. Ak47 seemed to have felt that Aurelia was a little too hasty to quit the game, but it's not as if he/she was unreceptive to criticism - it seems like he/she just didn't like that Aurelia had judged the entire demo so harshly based on the first couple minutes (albeit the most important couple minutes), and Aurelia's first post did seem like she had extended the criticism to envelop the entire project.

Anyway, I haven't tried the demo, but the screenies look pretty nice - good luck Ak47!

[Ak47]

Wow, modern algebra you seemed to have got my perspective on this situation spot on.
Thank you, and I'm sorry to Aurelia if I came of sounding unappreciative of her feedback.

[Illuminatorr]

Alright here is what I think of the game thus far. It's a really fun entertaining game that I would play again I really enjoy the atmosphere given by the lighting script (That I assume your using) it really help and adds a-lot to the game especially at Crea when it's under attack by the Hellborn. My main issue is the intro being around 10 minutes thats not to say I did not enjoy it I have the same issue with some other cut-scenes length albeit I throughly enjoyed all the cut-scenes some were very long and that was do to the fact that the characters move very slow in some cases this is good but there was a cut-scene or two that I thought they should have been running as apposed to walking. Though in the end I would still give the game 4 stars out of 5 mostly due to the cut-scenes but once you get past those the gameplay is about the most fun out of any RPG Maker game I've played and I can't wait until it's finished.

[Ak47]

@Illuminatorr: Thank you for playing the demo and for your feedback, I'm glad you had fun.
Gameplay is one of my main priorities, I try to keep it fun throughout the whole game.
In the new demo there will be more mini games and features to divert from the critical path, so even more fun could be had.
I'll look into the scenes where they are walking too slow. Thanks

Here is a new map.



Video In motion
[yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZ6MFRCU7UQ[/yt]

[pacdiggity]

That map looks great. Especially loving the fog.

[Ak47]

Thanks Pacman, I've added a video for the full effect.

[pacdiggity]

Wow, I'm going to assume you're using Ccoa's Weather Script. I love that script.

[Ak47]

Yep, the falling leaves are with Ccoa's Weather Script, I love that script also.

[vogelmeister]

Right. I thought I would keep my opinion on the demo to myself, but since the entire discussion between yourself and Aurelia I find it hard to let it slide, even though I mostly judged it from the first 15 sentences .

So far I've managed to squeeze about 2 hours' worth of quality gameplay (I reckon that's half way through, is that right?) and I am quite impressed. It is fun, intelligent and what's most important, compelling. The intro, however, was the only thing that got me. I was lucky enough to sit through it, reading the complete works of Ak47 whilst looking at a pixelated sword. That sword, my friend, is driven right through the biggest artery of a game that's aiming so high in the visual department. I hope it's already gone as we speak
But what I DID wholeheartedly enjoy was the entire Knight's story in the beginning, the entire war with the Hellborn, the layout of the slaughter at the pub/home (that one was particularly good), that really made me feel for the characters even though their names may have slipped my mind forever.
The way I see it, a good game should give the player as many of these moments as possible and whittle the massive background story down to three paragraphs tops. And keep it in that respective order as well, not the other way around.

I guess this is a common problem which can be seen even in so many presentations - whoever makes their game, they put such a huge effort in conceiving a massive fantasy world and a truckload of characters and places whose names don't mean anything to anybody and can hardly be pronounced, that they often get hasty to overload you with this information straight away. That's probably the very last thing that should go on a presentation and into a game. You'll never find that in a Final Fantasy game for example. (Have you noticed that hardly any character in FF has a name longer than 2 syllables and the story normally takes about 5 minutes to get into?)

I hope it made sense. Anyway, excellent work, sir! I'm looking forward to the final result.

[Ak47]

@Vogelmeister: Thank you for playing the demo and for your feedback.

I am glad you enjoyed the Intro/Prologue, and yes I have removed that pixelated sword.
I understand what you mean about forgetting the character names, I tend to do that too sometimes.
In the re-done version of the prologue you will have control of the Sarian Knights, with a few more extra scenes and more player involvement, you can get even more attached to the characters and hopefully remember their names.
Thanks again for feedback.

[vogelmeister]

@Ak47: That's good news, cheers to that!

I've been meaning to bring this rant up for a while now. Browsing these forums takes us through gigabytes of storytelling as dry as a dead rattlesnake's bone, so what we do is go straight to the "characters" and/or "screenshots" section to bring some personality into what we'll eventually scroll back to and read in the future (I could bet you a million Gil I'm not the only one who does that). No offense to anybody whatsoever.
Both of those sections are what made me download the demo and play it in the first place.

So do you have any estimated release dates in mind? Sorry for imposing, but still.

[hiromu656]

I'm really tempted to download the game. Is it just a graphical remake or is it a complete remake?

[Ak47]

@Vogelmeister: I tend to skip to the screens section too.
As for a release date on the next demo, I'm not sure... It could take several months. Quite busy at work atm.

@Hiromu656: It will mainly be a graphical update but there will also be some extra scenes for character development and a few new gameplay mechanics will be introduced.

[hiromu656]

Hm, well I'll just play the demo just for the heck of it.

[Illuminatorr]

Would you mind if I did a Let's Play of the current demo?

[Ak47]

@hiromu656: Cool, hope you have some fun.

@Illuminatorr: Sure, I won't mind. That'd be nice.

[Aurelia]

"To tell you the truth, I'm not a big fan of this project"
Then you say
"I don't judge your game, I judge your intro."

By that sentence, I mean, I don't like your project and the reason is pretty much given with the following sentences. Not a big fan of a project does not, at all, means that project sucks to the core, hence I said I never judge your game. Just keep that in mind in case you misunderstand again (since you seem to have the habit of doing that alot )


Of course I'm not here to defend myself XD Just come to give some comments on how the rest of the demo appeals to me, since I was able to finish it just now (took me three days, but still xD). I'd try to keep it short :3

Pros:
- I LOVE how you use status in the game. It's definitely the best part of the game itself. There are many states to cause slip damage to enemies, and the best is that they are stackable (Sunder + Bleeding/Wounded + Poison is imba). The cons is that they made the boss battles are a lot easier, especially if Zack is around to use Protect (as now you only have to heal one person instead of worrying about the whole team, and Zack has killer def  )
- Visual department, I bet everyone has address this already, it's one of the better aspects of your game. I definitely like how you create the atmosphere, the dark grayish tone is very eye-pleasing. Though throughout the game a lot of XP tiles clash horribly with VX tiles (the caravan, the giant trees, etc.), but I hope this would be taken care of.
- Some of the music pieces you used definitely very epic, especially during the part when Crea's under Hellborn attack.
- Lock-picking and the Card game are pretty original. Even though card game isn't something of my taste, but the system itself seems to be pretty solid and it seems to take a lot of work, so kudos on that.


Cons:
- Since this is, as you said, an OLD demo, I would not address all the mapping bug or the typos. But seriously, next time you might need more beta-tester/proof-reader, as typos can be a big turn-off factor, especially if they appear frequently.
- I would have to address this once again, but this time fully on the whole demo and not just an introduction. For a game stressing on storyline and not gameplay, writing definitely is something you need a lot of improvement upon. For one, the dialogue is very dry and emotion-less. Most of them feels like you are feeding information to player, not like actual people talking to each other.
- The game's pace also needs lots of work. The game started slow, but in the middle the pace picks up much faster and I must say, that's the best part of the demo. It was fun to play through, but toward the end the pace slowed down again, the mood is totally killed by more information feeding, and bad writing.
- The bad writing also comes in the inconsistency. Take the part when the girl assassin trying to escape for example, she mentioned the passage the mayor secretly built in the sewer. Fine, the girl assassin has her source, and she knew about the passage. But then, the general also knew about the secret passage (of the mayor, since the general and the king just decided to stop in that town), and knew that the girl assassin knew about that passage (he pursued her through that road and not looking in town and such). It's just one unbelievable chain of event just like that. What's the secret if everyone knows about it and knows that others also have the knowledge 'bout it?
- About the gameplay, since you mentioned it's one of the best aspect of the game, I had a lot of hope for it. But you know, going around and killing mobs ain't exactly "good" gameplay


That's about it I think.

[hiromu656]

After a few lazy days, I actually played the Old Demo. I think the gameplay is fantastic, you have to actually act like a fight is a fight, rather than a damage dealing contest, I like how strategy in combat is so greatly stressed, it makes me remember those old rpgs, the ones where attack attack attack didn't get the job done.

Your mapping was great, and from what you've shown it is much better, and that's saying a lot. I like the game, although Aurelia does make a good point with the dialogue being pretty dry and containing quite a bit of grammatical errors, but the gameplay is great in my opinion, so good luck with this one.