Internet Censorship Bill

[Strak]

I am going to provide reasoning that holds no logic whatsoever.

Anyway, you're absolutely right. I'll keep signing.

[Sophist]

We don't live in a capitalist society.

:I

[Irock]

We don't live in a capitalist society.

:I

I'm not sure how you could sincerely call it capitalism knowing how much the government controls and influences the market.

[Holkeye]

It is totally capitalist, but the people who have capitalized in the past leave legacies that influence government in order to stay profitable. This, in turn, stops new businesses, corporations, and visionaries from getting far enough ahead to become sustainable.

[Irock]

It is totally capitalist, but the people who have capitalized in the past leave legacies that influence government in order to stay profitable. This, in turn, stops new businesses, corporations, and visionaries from getting far enough ahead to become sustainable.

You described a corporatocracy, not a capitalist system. When the government is involved in the market, whether as a tool for large corporations and elite bankers or not, it's not capitalism.

[Holkeye]

The two are not mutually exclusive. Same as a "capitalist democracy," which is what we are labeled as, the "democracy" part doesn't make us less capitalist. Even if we do have a corporatocracy, that doesn't mean we aren't capitalist. In fact, I would argue that a corporatocracy would be nearly impossible without a capitalist society, or at least some form of society where a certain few businesses are allowed to rise above the rest.

[Irock]

The two are not mutually exclusive. Same as a "capitalist democracy," which is what we are labeled as, the "democracy" part doesn't make us less capitalist. Even if we do have a corporatocracy, that doesn't mean we aren't capitalist. In fact, I would argue that a corporatocracy would be nearly impossible without a capitalist society, or at least some form of society where a certain few businesses are allowed to rise above the rest.

Capitalism implies that we have laissez-faire, but corporatocracy couldn't exist if we did have laissez-faire. A capitalist society can transform into a corporatocracy, but it can't be both at the same time.

[Holkeye]

Sure it can. Laissez-Faire only applies to legal and governmental prevention of another company's business. These SOPA and PIPA bills are a perfect example of how we can be capitalist and a corporatocracy at the same time. I'll use the RIAA as an example:

The RIAA doesn't want you to give money to anyone but the RIAA. That is the only thing that it cares about. It is, after all, a business. It can't have the government stop you from giving money to others, because that would be obstruction of Laissez-Faire. It can, however, stop or limit your exposure to anything except properties that gain the RIAA money. This can be done by disguising SOPA and PIPA as "noble bills" that are there to stop people from pirating music from their artists. This is fine, but beyond that, they could potentially shut down any site that even has the capability of sharing pirated content. That means that in addition to keeping you from sharing RIAA artists' music, it would also keep you in the dark as to new, independent content.

The music industry is just a small example, but this also applies to any sort of trade. In the physical world, imagine that say, Macy's, owns every building on a city block except one. The small, independent clothing shop located there will not sell. But, Macy's needs the real estate to build a new store. They can't directly get involved in the shop, but they can use underhanded tactics to get around it. Maybe they search for, and report any sort of building code violations. This has the potential to get the small store shut down, without directly becoming involved with the sales end of the business.

So again, Capitalism doesn't imply that we have Laissez-Faire. We just happen to have both.

[tSwitch]

The term is plutocracy, rule by the wealthy.

Our economy is capitalist, which feeds directly into our government being a plutocracy, as the wealthy pay the govenment to just do whatever they want.

More than just corporations send money to the government for favors, so I think corporatocracy is a bit limited in scope.

[EvilM00s]

I'll agree with that, NAM.

All this talk about internet censorship made me think of the Great Firewall of China, as I'm sure it did to many. Obviously, the bill is nowhere near that scope, but I firmly believe that in most cases freedom is not taken, it is given away bit by bit untill we have none.

If this bill gets passed, how long before congress feels that the kind of control China suffers is appropriate for America?

[Holkeye]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/01/14/white-house-sopa-pipa_n_1206347.html

This is a victory! Thank you to everyone else who did something other than bitching about it!

[tSwitch]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/01/14/white-house-sopa-pipa_n_1206347.html

This is a victory! Thank you to everyone else who did something other than bitching about it!

I was about to post this article about it as well.

I'm glad so many of us wrote our reps and made our voices heard.

[EvilM00s]

This is how America works. When we are informed and act we can control the making of law. If we can shoot down this act with petitioning, imagine what else we can do!

[Zylos]

Probably not a hell of a lot, unfortunately. The bill was poorly made and being voted on by a lot of people who didn't actually understand the technical aspects of it, and it took hundreds of thousands of people screaming about it for them to decide to just table it. Most people are divided about other issues we'd want to see taken care of, and the politicians are probably a little bit more informed in other aspects outside of technology (I'd hope, anyway).

Still, at least this much was a triumph that will make sure ambitious lawyers don't go suit crazy over trivial incidents.

[strike]

PIPA is still there, and they only shelved SOPA indefinitely. (which could mean any number of things.) We're not out of the woods yet.

[Yeyinde]

PIPA is set to vote on the 24th of January.  As for SOPA...  It doesn't want to be killed off.  http://judiciary.house.gov/news/01172012.html

[EvilM00s]

PIPA is still there, and they only shelved SOPA indefinitely. (which could mean any number of things.) We're not out of the woods yet.

Definitely. I'm not so naiive as to think it won't resurface, but to see that voices were used and heard is comforting. For now, it's a victory for the people over the government- one I am convinced is the people's enemy.

[pacdiggity]

I like what Wikipedia did to make more people aware of this, it's a bold move and it'll definitely have some people going "AAAHHH NOO MAKE IT STOP".
I just don't know why they had to do it just as I needed to research the Blue-Tongued Skink.

[IAMFORTE]

you can press esc as it loads to stop it, or look at it on a mobile platform, or look at in a diffrent language and translate

[EvilM00s]

"Do you knnow what they call the Blue-Tongued Skink in France?"
"No, what?"
"La Blue-Tongued Skink."

[Strak]

So. I don't know if this has been mentioned or not, but has anyone considered the jobs that would be lost because of this? Google administrators, hell, even people on this site are being paid to make music or resources (although not full-time). I wanted to go to the U of A for computer science after graduating this year. I had a career plan set out. I was going to make an effort to be successful in life. And this would destroy that. If this passes, I could very well be wasting my time. I'm Canadian, but this would still affect me. I'm not blinded by my separation from the United States of America. If the internet is censored, I'm screwed. We're all screwed.

[Dyre]

Those against SOPA now have Wikipedia and Google on their side.

Google alone is enough, but Wikipedia is down in protest(even if it is easily bypassed via noscript). That is a huge deal to a lot of people. Hopefully it will get more attention and more people will send word to congress.

I cannot see SOPA, or any of the slightly altered versions of the same bill, passing when some of the biggest sites are against it. Especially considering how small the group it would actually assist is. No one benefits from this but the RIAA and groups like it. They're just afraid that times are changing, their model is worn out and they refuse to adapt. Everyone else would be harmed if this passes, so don't give up your dreams just yet.

Participate in the petitions, take down any sites you own in protest. Share the news with everyone you can and get them to do the same.

We don't have to go anywhere or really do much to fight this. Just tell people. A lot of people likely have no idea what it is or why they should care.

[Holkeye]

The ESA is for SOPA...

[Strak]

And Google is against it.

This bill will not pass!

[Holkeye]

http://kotaku.com/5877842/congressional-vote-on-pipa-gets-delayed-meaning-controversial-bill-may-not-become-law