Programming Languages

[tSwitch]

Ahaha my internship isn't programming-centered, though. P: I want to look for such an internship in the future (my dad has connections), but, atm, I registered late for stuff, so getting an internship at all was the good choice for me.

Also, I have the choice of taking up Ruby or C++ (Python seems to be on the same level as Ruby, but Ruby could be more applied to the RPG Makers so yeah, lol). Which do you recommend? NAM, you said I should do C++ if I've never seen code, but I have. As far as I know, all coding is exactly the same except the syntax is just a little different. Imo, it's like eventing in RPG Maker except you have more options available and you can be more efficient. It's just knowing the limits of the language and how to practice using it that's a problem.

no, I said if you've never seen code then don't do C++.
Ruby has a backwards way of doing things sometimes, but it's still worth learning.

I just meant that if you plan on programming as a job or anything in the future, that you should learn C++.

[Kokowam]

Hmmm. I may learn C++ then learn Ruby then mess with C++ a little more extensively. And another question: How proficient must you be at a language to say you're good enough with it?

[Cascading Dragon]

I would say at the very least, being able to create a basic GUI with it.

[tSwitch]

I would say at the very least, being able to create a basic GUI with it.

C++ isn't very gui friendly, so that's kinda a bad measure.
If you understand the syntax and core functions of a programming language, everything above and beyond is just adding more classes and etc...

I'm not a teacher, so I really can't say what makes someone fluent.
I'd say it depends on how well you can understand the syntax, or can manipulate it.

[Kokowam]

Oh yeah, another important question I had: What's an example of a non-OO language and an example of code in that language? And how important are non-OO languages?

[Mr_Wiggles]

@NAMKCOR - I just wanna say that i looked at your game that you made in C++ and that you said you where making it for your class. What class is that and what do you plan on doing with your degree? I was thinking of taking a programming class in college and from what i have read in here that you have a great  argument because your there already (programing that is). So i have started to teach my self C++ as a good measure against anything that i might have to learn in the class.

I'm thinking of going into game programing for a career and i wanna try to get a head start before i get in to college. (if i can't, for some reason, learn how to program i have a back up plan of becoming an electrician.)

[Cascading Dragon]

C++ isn't very gui friendly, so that's kinda a bad measure.

Yeah, thats true. So, Idk.

[Yeyinde]

C++ isn't very gui friendly, so that's kinda a bad measure.

http://www.wxwidgets.org/

[tSwitch]

C++ isn't very gui friendly, so that's kinda a bad measure.

http://www.wxwidgets.org/

that's an extra library specifically designed for GUI, I mean C++ as a core.

@NAMKCOR - I just wanna say that i looked at your game that you made in C++ and that you said you where making it for your class. What class is that and what do you plan on doing with your degree? I was thinking of taking a programming class in college and from what i have read in here that you have a great  argument because your there already (programing that is). So i have started to teach my self C++ as a good measure against anything that i might have to learn in the class.

I'm thinking of going into game programing for a career and i wanna try to get a head start before i get in to college. (if i can't, for some reason, learn how to program i have a back up plan of becoming an electrician.)

The class is on Engine Development, over the course we made a simple 2D game engine in C++ with DirectX 9.0c.  It's a more advanced subject, at first you'd just be making console applications to learn the basics, DirectX is a pain in the ass, especially if you don't know C++ very well yet.

[Kokowam]

Yeah, I heard DirectX is... >_> and that there's better options. But I have no idea what DirectX is to be used for, lol. I just know some games need it.

And this again:

Oh yeah, another important question I had: What's an example of a non-OO language and an example of code in that language? And how important are non-OO languages?

[Mr_Wiggles]

The class is on Engine Development, over the course we made a simple 2D game engine in C++ with DirectX 9.0c.  It's a more advanced subject, at first you'd just be making console applications to learn the basics, DirectX is a pain in the ass, especially if you don't know C++ very well yet.

do they have classes that just teach C++? and would it be wise to take it before i take other classes that use it?

[tSwitch]

Yeah, I heard DirectX is... >_> and that there's better options. But I have no idea what DirectX is to be used for, lol. I just know some games need it.

And this again:

Oh yeah, another important question I had: What's an example of a non-OO language and an example of code in that language? And how important are non-OO languages?

DirectX is a library designed for graphics.  2D and 3D, that's why games need them.  It's just a pain now and again.

I haven't seen a non Object Oriented language on a computer ever.  I only saw one that way when I was programming on my calculator.

The class is on Engine Development, over the course we made a simple 2D game engine in C++ with DirectX 9.0c.  It's a more advanced subject, at first you'd just be making console applications to learn the basics, DirectX is a pain in the ass, especially if you don't know C++ very well yet.

do they have classes that just teach C++? and would it be wise to take it before i take other classes that use it?

yes, those are the intro classes.  and of course you'd want to take intro classes before taking advanced classes

[Kokowam]

Alright, so there's an obvious "YES" to studying programming/scripting in general on my own before I go to a college. But, in the worst case scenario that I didn't do that, would I be able to make it through in a college with such a related major? I'm sure as heck ain't gonna do that, but I want to gauge how hard it possibly could become.

And what're your views on Java? I was just searching "most popular scripting/programming languages" and Java came in first constantly while C++ pulled behind in second. Also, I found out that my school teaches Java for the AP/beyond AP classes and C++ for the honors or regular/on-level class. Is there any merit to Java?

[tSwitch]

Java is like an easier to deploy but less powerful C++.
There are classes in colleges for people who haven't programmed before, they can't assume you have any education on a subject when you go there so there's intro classes for everything.

[Kokowam]

Oh, cool deal. Thanks!

[tSwitch]

I forgot to mention, Java is cross platform and good enough for most simple applications and some simple games, though I wouldn't pursue anything complicated with it.

[ahref]

This is gonna sound odd because i hate C but i'd learn C to start looking back.

C gives you nothing. Anything you do in it has to be thought out and programmed well, Yeah its hard boring and bloody confusing(Binary trees UGH).

However now ive got the hang of it im able to pick up languages a lot more easily, Gimmie something written in it and ill work it out.

[blueXx]

I am sorry, This post really forced me to login there.

As a programmer I'd like to comment on a few things:
1. There is no need for you to know a set amount of languages for you to be a programmer.
In fact, saying that you are a programmer because you know X languages is just proving the opposite.
2. I'd recommend C++ to start with, and then moving to C.
And here is why:
While C is by far the one language that really gives you an understanding of what it's like to code, it's more often than not a huge dive.
C++ on the other hand is a bit more intuitive as you are more than capable of "discarding" the use of pointers.
You are also capable of using classes in C++ (As a built-in feature)
Which makes CPP a real bridge between OOP and normal programming.
However C is important to know as it forces you to tackle some real obstacles you usually have solved and given to you on a sliver plate.
The main one is pointers and function pointers, master both of them and you are ready to call yourself a lvl 1 programmer (lvl 0 being the lowest, of course)

3. C,CPP and C# are far from "you mastered one you know them all"
They are each unique and have different traits and uses even though they may share a major amount of syntax.
However as mentioned above knowing some syntax isn't the same as knowing how to program.

C is the quickest and lightest, however you are in charge of just about everything.
It's far easier to program in than say... assembly(Since I can use that too I'll say to code lines ration is about 1:10, that's huge, but if you like juggling registers...)
C++ has the whole Template mechanism and is capable of both OOP and 'normal' programming.
C# isn't just GUI, it's portability (well... sort of, blame microsoft for forcing it to be ms-products oriented until OS developed the 'bridge' to other systems), as well as event oriented programming (and of course simple OOP)

So if you'll ask me which languages you need to be a pro, I'll say none.
But go ahead and use cpp to practice programming while you read data structures and algorithms books.

[Kokowam]

Well, on a sidenote (I forgot about this topic, lol), I'm actually doing random coding, as my other recent topic shows. And it's in Python, lol. It gets the job done. And nice necropost. P:

[blueXx]

Not really necro, sub-forum is completely dead, it was 6th from the top...
Anyway some things had to be said.
Btw about your other thread, I'd suggest you make an automaton but it's probably way too early for you to play with those.

[Kokowam]

Yeah, and basically everything I need to be done is being done. P: Things are finishing up if they go as I planned.

[tSwitch]

There is no such thing as "normal" programming.

C++ isn't a bridge
C# isn't event oriented.
C++ and C# are OBJECT ORIENTED.

And you say you're a programmer.
Fuck.

[blueXx]

There is no such thing as "normal" programming.

C++ isn't a bridge
C# isn't event oriented.
C++ and C# are OBJECT ORIENTED.

And you say you're a programmer.
Fuck.

By "normal" I of course meant procedure based.
I call it "normal" because it's old school programming. (This is how it started)

CPP is a bridge between the new and the old like it or not.
I am not saying it was invented as such, but since you can both procedural program and OOP in it , it is actually a "bridge".

C# - go read about delegates.
Sure you can ignore events completely and make it OO but the feature is THERE.
Of course I never said this is all it does, I just said it supports it along with OOP, I was pointing it as a key difference compared to C++ and C.

Java and C# are fully OOP, if you use C++ you can IGNORE the keyword class and never use it, you can also completely ignore your ability to use functions, excluding main().
Hence once again, the word bridge really does suit it.

And last but not least, I said it once I'll say it again.
THE FACT THAT I KNOW ABOUT FEATURES OF 3 LANGUAGES IS NOT WHAT MAKES ME A PROGRAMMER.
And if you think that this is what makes you a programmer, then you are not one.

[tSwitch]

lol, C++ uses class libraries for everything.

fuck.

[blueXx]

lol, C++ uses class libraries for everything.

fuck.

You can ignore anything you do not wish to use.
For as long as you can do that, I can claim that you can ignore the class keyword.
I mean sure string is a cool feature but you can always discard it for a char* Arr
And this is just about the hardest thing to ignore, everything else is luxury you could do without in C and can easily do without on C++.
But again C++ also has the OO part and not using it at all is just a waste.