So. What's war good for? I don't mean any specific war, and I ask that no one says 'omg us is imperialisstic n shud pul out uf irak n afgani-w/e n afrika n al taht' or something like that. I mean war in general, what benefits has war brought us in human's history? Not just 20th century conflicts either, some of the earliest wars as well.
I'll see to it, with JH's help I'm sure, that we dispel the notions any of you may have (I'm sure somebody on this forum does) that war is inherently evil and should in some way be abolished, because it is a purely negative force in the world and hinders human progress and has in the past.
Technological advances.
Also, imperialism is a good thing.
As long as it's American imperialism.
War helps to prevent economic collapse...
How about German imperialism? Led by a certain somebody we all know and love? The good days, they have passed. :(
But yeah, go on. I'll add that it cuts down the surplus population. :)
War is the stuff that unites countries!
Or divides them, depending on the war.
There is nothing good about war, other than it proves one thing: That we are a human race. It is within human nature to be forgiving, caring, and understanding, but also... naive, selfish, and cruel. I'm not saying about people specifically, but people in general. To say 'A World Without War' would be... the same as maybe saying 'A World Without Human Nature'. War is something that kills many and hurts millions, all for (usually) one goal, but it's good in that it proves we are human and we will continue to be human. (And that it can stop people from bombing and nuking eachother.)
I'm tempted to start a debate about the existence of human nature.
Also, assuming you are correct that war is good for showing us that we have some inherent nature of sorts, how is war good for absolutely nothing than that? How can you avoid the benefits already outlined?
In short, pseudo-philosophy ftw
Also, it gives a sort of kick-in-the-ass, by which I mean it forces progress.
Cutting down the population that's not needed.
Well are needed...but choose to die to make space for new population.
At least, that's my belief.
It's not so much space as resources. Controlling population growth by distributing birth control, allowing abortion, etc. is good, as well, and war should never be waged for the purpose of cutting down the surplus population. That's just a side benefit no one wants to talk about.
Quote from: gonorrhoea on January 29, 2007, 09:01:32 PM
So. What's war good for? I don't mean any specific war, and I ask that no one says 'omg us is imperialisstic n shud pul out uf irak n afgani-w/e n afrika n al taht' or something like that. I mean war in general, what benefits has war brought us in human's history? Not just 20th century conflicts either, some of the earliest wars as well.
I'll see to it, with JH's help I'm sure, that we dispel the notions any of you may have (I'm sure somebody on this forum does) that war is inherently evil and should in some way be abolished, because it is a purely negative force in the world and hinders human progress and has in the past.
It has many uses. Until we are all controlled by a single nation, born of power and wielding it, there will ALWAYS be war. The United Nation is a joke and just a charade of unity, and when they said there would NEVER be another Hitler because of THEM, I laughed my ass off...
You know Hitler wasn't such a bad person...had a few screws loose and was so racist and what not that it was incredible...but rule all of that out, and he's your average "lets go conquer" kinda guy.
We've suffered worse....
Hitler was a saint.
Also, haha @ world government. You sincerely fucking believe that would work? It's hard enough keeping some countries the size of US states together, could you imagine uniting EVERY country?
Furthermore, civil and partisan war would be there anyways. Do you think that if the former were accomplished and the world came under a single government, that war would automagically vanish? That various peoples of the world wouldn't fight because it's all one happy world and we're all united? Do you think that guerillas, who fight for a plethora of reasons from religion to politics to secession, will also disappear?
I dislike utopian worldviews like this, it'll never come to pass.
Overall, I 100% approve of the concept of war, it's necessary for the planet's survival. I just don't like being flat-out lied to about it. If you are going to kill someone, tell us the damn truth about it.
Let's go to war with China to bestow the blessings of war upon our people.
Quote from: gonorrhoea on January 30, 2007, 01:10:42 AM
Hitler was a saint.
Also, haha @ world government. You sincerely fucking believe that would work? It's hard enough keeping some countries the size of US states together, could you imagine uniting EVERY country?
Furthermore, civil and partisan war would be there anyways. Do you think that if the former were accomplished and the world came under a single government, that war would automagically vanish? That various peoples of the world wouldn't fight because it's all one happy world and we're all united? Do you think that guerillas, who fight for a plethora of reasons from religion to politics to secession, will also disappear?
I dislike utopian worldviews like this, it'll never come to pass.
I haha @ your "never", that's a long time to make a statement for. Communism IS the perfect idea of society, it just is easily manipulated. With an UN-CORRUPT government that had COMPLETE control of the people, it would abolish WAR. There would still be terrorism, and rebels, but they would easily be crushed. It's not a matter of 'when' but how long it takes us to morally evolve.
Quote from: arrowone on January 30, 2007, 01:13:39 AM
Overall, I 100% approve of the concept of war, it's necessary for the planet's survival. I just don't like being flat-out lied to about it. If you are going to kill someone, tell us the damn truth about it.
The 'truth'? Lol, yeh that'll happen... The Government lies about things of a certain nature to stop mass spread fear. Rightfully so too...
Which is understandable, but that doesn't mean it doesn't royally piss me off.
QuoteI haha @ your "never", that's a long time to make a statement for. Communism IS the perfect idea off society, it just is easily manipulated. With an UN-CORRUPT government that had COMPLETE control of the people, it would abolish WAR. There would still be terrorism, and rebels, but they would easily be crushed. It's not a matter of 'when' but how long it takes us to morally evolve.
I haha @ your idiocy. We don't need to get into a debate about Communism here, it's not the place for it, but assuming it was an ideal government there will never be an uncorrupt government. At least, not run by humans. Furthermore, 'morally evolve'?
Quote from: gonorrhoea on January 30, 2007, 01:37:27 AM
Furthermore, 'morally evolve'?
Last time I checked, humans are pretty damned immoral...
I never said it had to be run by people.
Quote from: Deliciously_Saucy on January 30, 2007, 01:24:03 AMI haha @ your "never", that's a long time to make a statement for. Communism IS the perfect idea of society, it just is easily manipulated. With an UN-CORRUPT government that had COMPLETE control of the people, it would abolish WAR. There would still be terrorism, and rebels, but they would easily be crushed. It's not a matter of 'when' but how long it takes us to morally evolve.
I suppose if you blanked everyone's mind and figured out a way to suppress certain tendencies like the one towards violence you could have a perfectly harmonious Communist society, but it would also be stagnant and uncreative. Competition encourages people to excel. Also, I don't think that a government that had complete control over its people is in any way "perfect". And I don't understand where you get the idea that terrorists and rebels would be easily crushed. Big army != good army. The invasion of Afghanistan proved that.
DS, morality doesn't exist.
Indeed and what pray tell would we be run by to prevent war and situate the utopian era? A Machine? Surely with our technology so far, we can not manage to do this. A government by a machine. Inpartial, and inmoral. Not immoral. I do not believe that a machine could have any morals. Humans are too complex for something like that. I agree with Jesus Hitler. (If I was still religious btw I probably would have flammed you so bad. I dunno I just thought you should know. ;8 Hehe, I'm so glad that I'm not a mindless flock member any longer.) But morailty does exist Gonorrhoea. It's kind of linked to mortality I think... but I could be wrong.
Anyway : War is useless. I really don't have much to add to it however, but it seems that the war has turned to a governmental edge. I don't like this 'War on Terror' Bush is only doing it because his Daddy couldn't do it when he was in office; really, his dad wanted to go to Iraq so that he could get the leader and overthrow him. The war on terror is a complete hoax. D< If he just stuck with the facts instead of galloping off in like practially the wrong direction... Oh well. Our elections are based quite nearly soully upon who was the richest person to stake up claims to run for president. Its not about having the wise-ist brain in your head, just enough to be a great talker up at the thing, er podium. (Brain fart, sorry. xD )
Kay dice me up as you please! ;)
Quote from: gonorrhoea on January 30, 2007, 02:17:29 AM
DS, morality doesn't exist.
We've been over this. It exists as a cultural perception. :police:
As to all you Anti commies, I assume your American? Do you know how much negative propaganda was released about communism? The US was brainwashed.
QuoteSurely with our technology so far, we can not manage to do this.
My idea of unity isn't for now, it would be in hundreds if not thousands of years.
I know how that is. I would asume so, there is always propaganda. I am American. Sometimes I'm proud of it, and sometimes not. I don't care either way how a government is run only as long as the people are happy, content, cared for. Least... the majority anyhow. We know that total happiness can't be achieved yet. A good point about the morality too DS. It is based upon cultural perceptions, so it could possibly be moral to sacrifice people. If you come from a culture that does so. Of course those are, all nearly dead cultures.
War actually brings destruction all around, but has some good points too.
It creates unity in people, people have courage to fight, they get the feeling to sacrifice themself for their country, the get feelings of helping, friendship etc.
Only if its a vs war
If its like a country is shooting another country, and they both are big and war's happening at only 1 part, there are different feelings.
QuoteWar actually brings destruction all around, but has some good points too.
It creates unity in people, people have courage to fight, they get the feeling to sacrifice themself for their country, the get feelings of helping, friendship etc.
"Hey Mac, what you doing today?"
" Just going to have a few beers then kill some guys, you in? "
" Damn fucking straight ! I love you man! ;8"
" Yeh let's never stop being friends! "
*Hugs*
QuoteIf its like a country is shooting another country, and they both are big and war's happening at only 1 part, there are different feelings.
Are you talking about when a superpower invades a smaller country that has no real way to defend its self? That's something no one can really be decided on, it all comes down to circumstances. Even small countries with small armies can produce vast amounts of chemical weapons, enough to take out millions, just because they are physically weak does it mean no one should stop them? But in most cases, yes I think it's morally wrong.
Oh who cares about morals, let's just wipe them out and pretend they have chemical weapons! - Bush spoof.
War is just exercising the minds of leaders who have nothing better to do with their time.
Quote from: Revanica on January 30, 2007, 02:19:32 AM
It's kind of linked to mortality I think... but I could be wrong.
Yes, if you add a 't'.
QuoteAnyway : War is useless. I really don't have much to add to it however
...
Quotebut it seems that the war has turned to a governmental edge. I don't like this 'War on Terror' Bush is only doing it because his Daddy couldn't do it when he was in office; really, his dad wanted to go to Iraq so that he could get the leader and overthrow him. The war on terror is a complete hoax. D< If he just stuck with the facts instead of galloping off in like practially the wrong direction... Oh well. Our elections are based quite nearly soully upon who was the richest person to stake up claims to run for president. Its not about having the wise-ist brain in your head, just enough to be a great talker up at the thing, er podium. (Brain fart, sorry. xD )
Ugh, tell me there's another thread that I can dice this TOTALLY IRRELEVANT shit up.
Quote from: Deliciously_SaucyWe've been over this. It exists as a cultural perception.
You're running in circles here.
QuoteAs to all you Anti commies, I assume your American? Do you know how much negative propaganda was released about communism? The US was brainwashed.
We're as brainwashed as a Chinese kid. Seriously though, this is a moot point. Sure, there's propaganda in every government. But I'm quite able to analyse these things myself, as I haven't been brainwashed into being an anti-Communist. I can also look at its success thus far- oh, wait, what success? The USSR held up pretty well, eh? Nice peaceful place to live.
Oh, and by the way, just because I disagree with you doesn't mean I've been brainwashed. It just means you're wrong. :)
Quote from: RavenicaOf course those are, all nearly dead cultures.
Aztec culture is alive and well, it's just that they don't sacrifice so much any more. Unfortunately. That'd be AWESOME.
Quote from: Deliciously_Saucy"Hey Mac, what you doing today?"
" Just going to have a few beers then kill some guys, you in? "
" Damn fucking straight ! I love you man! ;8"
" Yeh let's never stop being friends! "
*Hugs*
That's not what he's talking about, and I'd hope you realise what camaraderie he's referring to is. If not, wow. Just... wow.
Furthermore, will you all shut up about these morals? Morality is a cultural fabrication, sure, and it can vary from person to person and region to region. And you can't 'morally evolve', nor can you culturally evolve. Culture and with it the perception of morality changes over time in various places with various groups and subgroups. And even then, not everyone will conform to this set of morals, especially if they think they can get it away with. Hence, corrupt governments.
I one hundred percent agree.
Man, if JH was a decent guy, and wasn't the huge asshole he was, he'd probably end up being you.
By the way, anyone wanna share the post that got him b&?
:)
Apparently he got banned for calling a thread emo. Don't know which, though.
"Absoulty Nothing" is the rest of your Topic Title...
Every one wins some thing from a War... Like the German's they lost the War in history books, yet they have very few Jews in their home land... So a win in a sense.
War wouldn't happen if we could see past Skin colour, Creed, Culture, Faith and Land rights... All things that mean so little when compared to a Human life.
If we took a step back and looked at each and every other person as a Human as a Race rather than disecting our selves down to create an in-difference we would not have some many conflicts that spark wars.
I don't think Wars are good for much in a whole in modern times we should be looking at expanding and bettering the Human Race. Back through the ages how ever Wars have been needed to stop invasions and over throwing of cultures and countries.
Each War through History has its Merits, so saying War is wrong is in it's self wrong.
A War to stop a Invasion is prevention of Forced occupation, there-fore justified, if a War would cut the amount of casulties of innocents compared to those fell by War then that too in my eyes was a just War.
I just think we as a Human race, by now should be better than we are, and War should be some thing in the past.
QuoteWar wouldn't happen if we could see past Skin colour, Creed, Culture, Faith and Land rights... All things that mean so little when compared to a Human life.
It's more common for war to happen because of economic or political issues, and yes land rights. These cannot be ignored, so unless you devise a society with no economy, politics, or concept of property you will have war. And no shortage of it.
QuoteI don't think Wars are good for much in a whole in modern times we should be looking at expanding and bettering the Human Race.
It's been said that war stimulates the advancement of technology.
Quote from: gonorrhoea on January 30, 2007, 11:40:10 PM
QuoteI don't think Wars are good for much in a whole in modern times we should be looking at expanding and bettering the Human Race.
It's been said that war stimulates the advancement of technology.
*proven, a number of times
LoS seems to have ignored that part of the thread.
QuoteIt's been said that war stimulates the advancement of technology.
It can also Hinder it. If Each modern country spent all their funds they use for deffence or weapons for 5 years they could bring a 3rd world out of poverty changing the face of it forever.
QuoteIt's more common for war to happen because of economic or political issues, and yes land rights. These cannot be ignored, so unless you devise a society with no economy, politics, or concept of property you will have war. And no shortage of it.
I suppose if we looked at things that the world is just a planet and the universe is full of them, but there is only one YOU then I guess it adds another factor to the equation.
I doubt we will see the true Value of Life when we are more concerned with what we own or call our own. What do you leave behind when you die ? (Your off spring, Life is more important than possesions, and if your off spring are killed in War for possesions, then it makes living worth very little more than what you own)
Until we move forward with our lines of thinking we wont move forward into gain what War is all about gaining Freedom and Peace... Both wont happen until we view each other as Human's all of equal pegging...
Based on all of the above is why I don't like War. I don't see it as Evil, and I am not saying much of what we have today isn't thanks to Wars through-out history, I have a lot to thank War for. I just hope one day there will be no fuel for a war to start from.
QuoteLoS seems to have ignored that part of the thread.
Your missing my point I am raising... I am saying I wish we could see past all the reasons for War, Not that I discredit a War, as a War puts right many wrongs in the Human nature that starts it.
And how could I ignore it when it has not been forementioned, and this is my first responce to your Quoted responce... I aint no Mystic...LOL
And I know we have War to thank for many technologies. But then we have it to thank for things like Dirty bombs and chemicals geared on killing... I think the pro's and the cons conteract each other.
Quote from: landofshadows on January 30, 2007, 11:51:22 PM
It can also Hinder it. If Each modern country spent all their funds they use for deffence or weapons for 5 years they could bring a 3rd world out of poverty changing the face of it forever.
I don't understand your meaning.
QuoteI suppose if we looked at things that the world is just a planet and the universe is full of them, but there is only one YOU then I guess it adds another factor to the equation.
Are you implying that I would change my stance if I may be the one dying? I plan on joining the military and I am fully aware of the possibility of dying there, and yet, this has not influenced my stance on war.
QuoteI doubt we will see the true Value of Life when we are more concerned with what we own or call our own. What do you leave behind when you die ? (Your off spring, Life is more important than possesions, and if your off spring are killed in War for possesions, then it makes living worth very little more than what you own)
You overvalue life. It is often necessary to eliminate some life in order to allow other life to blossom. Similarly, it is also often necessary to eliminate in this manner some life to hinder the progress of a certain ideology (ie, Communism, Fascism, capitalism, or whatever) or to help solve economic issues between countries. And again, using the 'What if it were YOU' argument is quite moronic.
QuoteAnd how could I ignore it when it has not been forementioned, and this is my first responce to your Quoted responce... I aint no Mystic...LOL
You mean the first few posts in the thread? :/
QuoteAnd I know we have War to thank for many technologies. But then we have it to thank for things like Dirty bombs and chemicals geared on killing... I think the pro's and the cons conteract each other.
I lawled. How about the jet engine, or the computer? Maybe our world would be better if we didn't have the Internet, but hey, at least we'd lack dirty bombs as well! How about the medical technology developed for the use in caring for wounded soldiers (and civilians, depending on if the involved military gives a shit), which is also used in civilian medicine? I can keep going if you like.
QuoteI don't understand your meaning.
I am saying instead of Funding Wars why don't we try and better those countries less fortunate than our own. And I am am also saying I would rather see my Taxes spent on some thing that is not killing people.
QuoteI can keep going if you like.
Your twisting what I am saying to suite your needs... Your picking out all the parts that I put a negative towards being pro war, Many amazing things came from Wars technology wise.
QuoteAre you implying that I would change my stance if I may be the one dying? I plan on joining the military and I am fully aware of the possibility of dying there, and yet, this has not influenced my stance on war.
Soliders are Hero's, and I am not implying nothing of the sort. I am saying your life is worth more than what makes you, you... If some one takes away your land, you move, if some one takes away your religion you find faith in some thing else... You can adapt... If you Die, your Dead. Thats what I am saying. Possesion are not worth dieing for neither are idea's or ideals.
Quote(ie, Communism, Fascism, capitalism, or whatever)
Who's to say if the whole world had one rule, one of say the 3 above, and we all sang from the same page why would the wrold be bad...? Who is to say whats right and wrong... Ideals are a state of mind, Freedom of choice is only an ideal in it's self... every leading party of state forces ideals of sorts on their people.
QuoteI lawled. How about the jet engine, or the computer? Maybe our world would be better if we didn't have the Internet, but hey, at least we'd lack dirty bombs as well! How about the medical technology developed for the use in caring for wounded soldiers (and civilians, depending on if the involved military gives a shit), which is also used in civilian medicine? I can keep going if you like.
The Jet engine will soon be re-defined and invented to cope with the lowering levels of fuel...
Like many things we gain technology through circumstance and adaption to our needs. In War there was need for emprovement in certain area's I am not putting those aspects down, I did say we have loads to thank war for... but then there are other things made from War that go against creation and are made purely for destruction. Some of the worst technology for ending life have come from projects into "Defence"... And thats just Mental...
IE:- The Approach of Defence:- "Oh, I know for Defence why don't we make some Nucular Stealth Bombers"... My Approach would be more like:- "For defence why don't we make a Feedback Force field that repells enemy fire back at the source"...
Right the above was an example... Don't quote me rolling around on the floor thinking thats how I think... Oh Sod it, do what you do best and twist my nipples...LOL
But In shortI have not disagreed with any thing you have said, your twisting what I am saying to show the ponits I my-Self have counter claimed in my own writtings.
My point is AGAIN... What is the most valuable thing to a living creature, be it man or beast ? LIFE.
War protects a WAY of life... But is a way of life worth many Lives, it has to be looked at, are the lives lost in a War higher than those lost without a War ?
For eample, if we did nothing in Iraq, Saddam would have contiuned killing his people at a fairly high rate... Us stepping in stopped that, but now I think their will be lives being lost for at least another Centry as of fall out from the conflict, much longer than Saddam's life span, and may be many more lives lost than should we have kept our distance.
Not all Wars are right...
(Side note)
I was going to join the RAF when I left school.
Quote from: landofshadows on January 31, 2007, 12:46:31 AM
I am saying instead of Funding Wars why don't we try and better those countries less fortunate than our own.
Heh, LoS, we can't go helping every country in the world. Ain't you that fucker that was like 'WE MUST ALLOW THESE PEOPLE TO GET THEIR SHIT TOGETHER WITHOUT US. IT'S THEIR SHIT TO GET TOGETHER, LET THEM DO IT!'? :|
QuoteYour twisting what I am saying to suite your needs... Your picking out all the parts that I put a negative towards being pro war, Many amazing things came from Wars technology wise.
No, but I may be misunderstanding. Your post kind of confused me.
QuoteSoliders are Hero's
Not all of them. How about an Einsatzgruppe?
Quoteand I am not implying nothing of the sort. I am saying your life is worth more than what makes you, you... If some one takes away your land, you move, if some one takes away your religion you find faith in some thing else... You can adapt... If you Die, your Dead. Thats what I am saying. Possesion are not worth dieing for neither are idea's or ideals.
You're wrong, again. If someone invaded Britain, for example, would you merely move to Ireland or France? Or would you stay and fight, even if you knew you were to die there, for your countrymen? Would you say we shouldn't assist allies of ours in a similar situation (ie, France and other countries in WWII, South Vietnam in Vietnam, etc)?
QuoteWho's to say if the whole world had one rule, one of say the 3 above, and we all sang from the same page why would the wrold be bad...? Who is to say whats right and wrong... Ideals are a state of mind, Freedom of choice is only an ideal in it's self... every leading party of state forces ideals of sorts on their people.
Are you suggesting that our whole world should be of one ideology or are you suggesting that that's what I'm saying? Furthermore, are we to sit around discussing what's right or wrong or should we act on our beliefs?
QuoteThe Jet engine will soon be re-defined and invented to cope with the lowering levels of fuel...
Based on the initiative of the jet engine. Nonetheless, not only is this one of my examples but of all the initiatives resulting from the military initiatives, resulting from war.
QuoteIE:- The Approach of Defence:- "Oh, I know for Defence why don't we make some Nucular Stealth Bombers"... My Approach would be more like:- "For defence why don't we make a Feedback Force field that repells enemy fire back at the source"...
Nuclear weapons are used to discourage nuclear attack from an enemy source. Had the USA not used nuclear weapons at Hiroshima and Nagasaki, millions more would have died in the inevitable invasion of Japan. Furthermore, if it destroyed its nuclear capabilities it surely would've been attacked by the USSR and its buddies.
As for defensive technology against nuclear weapons- we have them. They destroy any incoming missiles (that they can intercept, that is). However, not all nuclear weapons are brought by plane or missile- they can be smuggled in an SUV and detonated in Manhatten's financial district, in the middle of DC, or anywhere else.
QuoteMy point is AGAIN... What is the most valuable thing to a living creature, be it man or beast ? LIFE.
Psht, speak for yourself.
QuoteWar protects a WAY of life... But is a way of life worth many Lives, it has to be looked at, are the lives lost in a War higher than those lost without a War ?
Not always. But quite often. I'll cite examples- WWII, the American Civil War, the British Civil War, Russian Civil War, and many others.
QuoteFor eample, if we did nothing in Iraq, Saddam would have contiuned killing his people at a fairly high rate... Us stepping in stopped that, but now I think their will be lives being lost for at least another Centry as of fall out from the conflict, much longer than Saddam's life span, and may be many more lives lost than should we have kept our distance.
Do you fap to Bush and Saddam slash erotica? I mean seriously, I asked that we not talk too much about that. I've already said in other threads that the invasion was pointless- but pulling out now could not only end more lives (you and your obsession with preserving as many lives as possible). Anyways, this is irrelevant to thread. Start another if you want to talk about Iraq.
QuoteNot all Wars are right...
I said war in general, not all wars.
QuoteI was going to join the RAF when I left school.
I was going to say something but I think I might be banned. If neither I nor JH are here, who shall take our mantle? :(
Quoteand I am not implying nothing of the sort. I am saying your life is worth more than what makes you, you... If some one takes away your land, you move, if some one takes away your religion you find faith in some thing else... You can adapt... If you Die, your Dead. That's what I am saying. Possesion are not worth dieing for neither are idea's or ideals.
Perhaps England should of said that to Hitler.
QuoteI am saying instead of Funding Wars why don't we try and better those countries less fortunate than our own.
Countries should fix their own problems before butting into others.
Quoteare we to sit around discussing what's right or wrong or should we act on our beliefs?
There are to types of people in the world, those who melt into society and it's whims, and those who don't. They are both needed. A person doing what they want to, or following their own beliefs wouldn't be pumping my gas... Also, there are those who are there own person, most of these people end up living as hermits but many go on to take over the word ( non-literally... ).
QuoteIt's been said that war stimulates the advancement of technology.
Yes, military advancement. I don't think the government would really be caring about space exploration during WW3.
QuoteThat's not what he's talking about, and I'd hope you realise what camaraderie he's referring to is. If not, wow. Just... wow.
That was a joke... -_-
Quoteoh, wait, what success? The USSR held up pretty well, eh? Nice peaceful place to live.
Yes and I see Capitalism taking the world by storm... It failed because of MEN not because of the ideals of Communism its self.
Quote(ie, Communism, Fascism, capitalism, or whatever)
Who's to say if the whole world had one rule, one of say the 3 above, and we all sang from the same page why would the wrold be bad...? Who is to say whats right and wrong... Ideals are a state of mind, Freedom of choice is only an ideal in it's self... every leading party of state forces ideals of sorts on their people.
That would be border line enslavement, for one ideal to work among all, you would have to wipe out all religion and expressionism and the such... Not that enslavement wouldn't stop wars, mind you...
Oh, Jesus Hitler got banned for making a comment on the "Girl Issues" Thread, I don't think his banning was deserved... But, then again...
QuoteThe Jet engine will soon be re-defined and invented to cope with the lowering levels of fuel...
Based on the initiative of the jet engine. Nonetheless, not only is this one of my examples but of all the initiatives resulting from the military initiatives, resulting from war.
Just being a USAF nerd right now, but for all intents and purposes the jet engine has been replaced by "scramjet".
You can thank the military (more specifically the people who have been working the last few years on the up until recently top secret aurora project) for that.
Post up a link for The Aurora project! Let's see if the conspiracy theorist were right! ;8
Quote from: gonorrhoea on January 30, 2007, 10:33:47 PM
:)
Apparently he got banned for calling a thread emo. Don't know which, though.
Yeah, just that one post was totally enough to ban somebody ;9
Quote from: Deliciously_Saucy on January 31, 2007, 03:22:38 AM
Post up a link for The Aurora project! Let's see if the conspiracy theorist were right! ;8
Unfortunately, the REALLY JUICY stuff came from an official AF rag I don't have anymore...
But here's wikipedia, it may have been updated with the info by now.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aurora_aircraft
Actually, the article still seems like a bunch of conspiracy theory to me...But I swear it's real now. I think the aircraft is going into production fairly soon. The project WAS NOT CANCELLED.
(https://rmrk.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fupload.wikimedia.org%2Fwikipedia%2Fen%2Fthumb%2F8%2F8e%2FAurora_concept_AdrianMann_1.jpg%2F250px-Aurora_concept_AdrianMann_1.jpg&hash=00c47df378b80a19518742a7f7a800564a04beab) <--- AURORA
(https://rmrk.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fupload.wikimedia.org%2Fwikipedia%2Fen%2Fthumb%2F7%2F7c%2FTestors_Aurora_Collage_1.jpg%2F240px-Testors_Aurora_Collage_1.jpg&hash=495dc126a07c668b2bdf23fd49b7bfec8ca187c9) <--- NOT AURORA
Quote from: Silverline on January 31, 2007, 03:23:49 AM
Quote from: gonorrhoea on January 30, 2007, 10:33:47 PM
:)
Apparently he got banned for calling a thread emo. Don't know which, though.
Yeah, just that one post was totally enough to ban somebody ;9
It's not perma ban is it?
Arrow: That stuff is enough to make me drool in two places! ;)
...Another AF fan?
...:tpg: THERE IS A GOD
Quote from: Deliciously_Saucy on January 31, 2007, 03:04:56 AM
Countries should fix their own problems before butting into others.
We'll never get over them. Then again, I'm not much into interventionalism to 'help people'. Perhaps to protect various interests, which is understandable.
QuoteYes, military advancement. I don't think the government would really be caring about space exploration during WW3.
. . .
Uh, do you not realise that military advancement leads to the technological advancement of the civilian populace? Has it not been said enough?
QuoteYes and I see Capitalism taking the world by storm... It failed because of MEN not because of the ideals of Communism its self.
Oh really now? I see more balanced economic models in the world. If a government model fails because of humanity it fails ultimately and it won't work, so advocating it and saying 'PEOPLE YOU SUCK FOR NOT MAKING IT WORK BY BEING PERFECT!' is a waste of your time and effort.
QuoteThat would be border line enslavement, for one ideal to work among all, you would have to wipe out all religion and expressionism and the such... Not that enslavement wouldn't stop wars, mind you...
It has the potential to start so much violence.
QuoteOh, Jesus Hitler got banned for making a comment on the "Girl Issues" Thread, I don't think his banning was deserved... But, then again...
What exactly did he say? :/
Ah, Arrow, I forgot about the scramjets. Yes, they are neat. But I'm more interested in things such as infantry and Special Forces than areoplanes. :)
QuoteIt has the potential to start so much violence.
I was agreeing with you, that last part was a joke.
Quote. . .
Uh, do you not realise that military advancement leads to the technological advancement of the civilian populace? Has it not been said enough?
Yes but it also retards other areas of development due to findings being placed else were.
QuoteWhat exactly did he say? :/
It was deleted VERY fast, but Dante was posting up issues about girl troubles, he also said something like " don't make fun of me, I'm not emo, just depressed" so JH bit the bait and said something rude, we can only guess that is was bad, but not THAT bad. I probably would of laughed...
Silver said it was not just this post that got him his banning but all of his recent ones too. JH (in alias) replied: Your just pissed about that "forget the name" video I posted up ( the video had this girl who was on web cam and stripped off, I THINK, it was a member of this site, if not a mod(?)).
It was a member of this site. And judging from the last time he got banned for a post he made, this last one must have been horrifyingly cruel and evil.
Also, according to silverline, that one post would have gotten pretty much anyone banned.
Quote from: arrowone on January 31, 2007, 04:38:35 AM
It was a member of this site. And judging from the last time he got banned for a post he made, this last one must have been horrifyingly cruel and evil.
Also, according to silverline, that one post would have gotten pretty much anyone banned.
*Off-Topic* Was his banning permanent? I liked him... ;9
WAR! WHAT IS GOOD FOR!
I guess we have established its good for technology and advancements... it's good at fending off aggressors or keeping aggressors at bay.
What else is it good for ?
QuoteYou're wrong, again. If someone invaded Britain, for example, would you merely move to Ireland or France? Or would you stay and fight,
I would only fight to protect my Family, not my country... I will protect my own blood and if protecting that meant moving then I would move... facing death to be bold or to keep possetions in my eyes is being stupid, they will kill you and take it any way... so what if you gave a good fight. If My family was killed and I had nothing to live for then God help them, I wouldn't stop until a bullet was in my head I would kill every one and any one who played part in it.
QuoteHeh, LoS, we can't go helping every country in the world. Ain't you that fucker that was like 'WE MUST ALLOW THESE PEOPLE TO GET THEIR SHIT TOGETHER WITHOUT US. IT'S THEIR SHIT TO GET TOGETHER, LET THEM DO IT!'? :|
Again... I don't disagree with you on all points, you raise one side of a debate so I raise the other even if it is a loosing side to choose... I like giving the other side of the coin to talk about.
Some countries should be left to thier own devices, others should be helped.
Quote from: landofshadows on January 31, 2007, 09:34:44 PM
I would only fight to protect my Family, not my country... I will protect my own blood and if protecting that meant moving then I would move... facing death to be bold or to keep possetions in my eyes is being stupid, they will kill you and take it any way... so what if you gave a good fight.
Psht, if some bastards invaded the States I'd become a guerilla.
QuoteAgain... I don't disagree with you on all points, you raise one side of a debate so I raise the other even if it is a loosing side to choose... I like giving the other side of the coin to talk about.
Why don't you just choose your perspective and debate with that?
QuoteSome countries should be left to thier own devices, others should be helped.
If it profits the helper, the poor country should indeed be helped. It would be good, for instance, to see if we can help Mexico (within reasonable bounds, of course) to get themselves on their feet. Them being a border country and all. Similarly, if Ireland was in a pickle I would be surprised to see Britain NOT assisting the country in some way.
QuotePsht, if some bastards invaded the States I'd become a guerilla.
It's Only land, why bother... You may see it as an attack on your WAY of life and an attack on your fellow country men. Every one is made from the same stuff, we are all Mamals, Humans... Nobody owns the world, and no one person owns a country, unless you built it yourself, like Richie Sowa.
QuoteWhy don't you just choose your perspective and debate with that?
Some times my perspective matches yours... Why would that be interesting, or intelligent to just go "Yeah what he just said"... I would much rather looking into the what if's and the under-dog point of view. You learn much more trying to look at these debates from another perspective.
So on that note the perspective of the Under Dog... War, Amrs and Defence... WHATEVER...!!!!http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_without_armed_forces
Many countries don't have an army, are they being invaded, are they not still making new technologies... You don't need Wars to better the Human race. Much of whats spent on Arms could be put to better use and help say the education systems within our countries to make people more likely to invent new technology. Pile the money into Cancer research and we could have a cure by now...
Here's some info based on the UN's state of affairs:- http://arcuk.org/pages/who_will_benefit_from_arc.htm
But if you want my perspectiveI don't like War, but it's needed more often than not... we are still in an era that needs War.
Quote from: landofshadows on February 01, 2007, 08:49:59 AM
It's Only land, why bother... You may see it as an attack on your WAY of life and an attack on your fellow country men. Every one is made from the same stuff, we are all Mamals, Humans... Nobody owns the world, and no one person owns a country, unless you built it yourself, like Richie Sowa.
This is like, the perfect excuse to pussy out.
QuoteSome times my perspective matches yours... Why would that be interesting, or intelligent to just go "Yeah what he just said"... I would much rather looking into the what if's and the under-dog point of view. You learn much more trying to look at these debates from another perspective.
Pick your viewpoint, stick with it, and don't start a debate if I happen to agree. It's simple, see?
Quotehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_without_armed_forces
Many countries don't have an army, are they being invaded, are they not still making new technologies... You don't need Wars to better the Human race. Much of whats spent on Arms could be put to better use and help say the education systems within our countries to make people more likely to invent new technology. Pile the money into Cancer research and we could have a cure by now...
You do realise if somebody invaded any of these countries they'd be counterattacked by one of those nation's allies, right? Say that Cuba decided to invade Grenada, will the US just leave 'em hanging?
Furthermore, much of the technology stimulated by war can't be stimulated in other ways, because it's initially used as a weapon (or defensive technology).
QuoteHere's some info based on the UN's state of affairs:- http://arcuk.org/pages/who_will_benefit_from_arc.htm
... :|
edit: Forgot to mention, as JH pointed out on IRC, 'THROWING MONEY AT A PROBLEM [ie, cancer] DOES NOT SOLVE IT.'
QuoteThis is like, the perfect excuse to pussy out.
Nah... Killing is killing, so what if its under the Label War... I would only kill some one if they killed a member of my family... Simple.
QuotePick your viewpoint, stick with it, and don't start a debate if I happen to agree. It's simple, see?
It's more fun the way I am doing things at the mo...LOL, And please stop telling me what to do. Freedom is a BIG word used in the USA, but boy do I feel dictated to some times.
QuoteYou do realise if somebody invaded any of these countries they'd be counterattacked by one of those nation's allies, right? Say that Cuba decided to invade Grenada, will the US just leave 'em hanging?
Here you go here's a What If for ya... What if, all countries followed those with no Army inc the USA... Then there would be no Wars... Not being funny... But Why is War so brilliant in the eye's of Americans, the first soloution is Kill it... Or at least thats the view I am getting so far, every one seems so pro War.
QuoteForgot to mention, as JH pointed out on IRC, 'THROWING MONEY AT A PROBLEM [ie, cancer] DOES NOT SOLVE IT.'
Shame you didn't forget completely...LOL Cancer research has only got as far as it has thanks to money being THROWN at it... Cancer research needs money to buy stuff and pay wages. I think JH point is more open to things like Prisioners being re-abiltated or changing people... Medicine is greatly under funded.
Quote from: landofshadows on February 01, 2007, 03:35:01 PM
Nah... Killing is killing, so what if its under the Label War... I would only kill some one if they killed a member of my family... Simple.
From that perspective, if someone killed your wife and you killed people from the group he's a part of- an invasion force, for example, it's still killing. Anyways, why would you allow people to take what you have? :/
QuoteIt's more fun the way I am doing things at the mo...LOL, And please stop telling me what to do. Freedom is a BIG word used in the USA, but boy do I feel dictated to some times.
. . .
QuoteHere you go here's a What If for ya... What if, all countries followed those with no Army inc the USA... Then there would be no Wars... Not being funny...
Then militias would form. AMAZING ISN'T IT?
QuoteBut Why is War so brilliant in the eye's of Americans, the first soloution is Kill it... Or at least thats the view I am getting so far, every one seems so pro War.
No one who knows anything about war sees it as brilliant, not even me. Ever heard of a necessary evil?
QuoteShame you didn't forget completely...LOL Cancer research has only got as far as it has thanks to money being THROWN at it... Cancer research needs money to buy stuff and pay wages. I think JH point is more open to things like Prisioners being re-abiltated or changing people... Medicine is greatly under funded.
What he means, I believe (or at least this is how I see it), is that there's more than 'hey let's give them a few billion bucks to fix this little cancer problem'. That's going to take time and quite a bit of effort and more non-monetary assistance than monetary assistance (not, of course, to imply that this isn't also important). Nonetheless, medicine is rather boring so I don't know much about this particular situation.
edit- OH FUCK MY HAND IS BIGGER THAN MY FACE. OK OK GUYS WE NEED A CURE I DON'T WANT TO DIE.
lolomgjk
QuoteFrom that perspective, if someone killed your wife and you killed people from the group he's a part of- an invasion force, for example, it's still killing. Anyways
Vengence in my eyes is justice. I don't call the police their shite, from previous experience... I handle things myself. Also I wouldn't just stop at him, I would kill as many members of the group as I could.
Quotewhy would you allow people to take what you have? :/
If it was one on one no weapons or equal weaponry Yeah I would stand my ground, but if an invasion force came I would move and protect my family... Protecting my next of Kin or Partner would come first over possesions, if it came to it I would Burn my home and possesions or Rig it to expload if some one entered it. Again Vengence is justice.
QuoteThen militias would form. AMAZING ISN'T IT?
I meant if all Arms had been destroyed, no guns, no knives etc... States could still be policed.
QuoteEver heard of a necessary evil?
Ying and Yang, there has to be an equal balance according to some faith's... If you have never came close or have taken some ones life I guess you wouldn't understand how complex a feeling it is to hold anothers life in the wind... Or to have your own placed in a fragile position. Talking big about war and killing is one thing, trying to pull a trigger knowing your about to end some ones life is a little different... Treat those how you wish to be treated... I would not rage war whillingly for sake of pride or country's honour, I would only fight if there is no other option, self defence and self preservation... Evil is necessary when facing Evil, but to go looking for it is some thing else.
QuoteWhat he means, I believe (or at least this is how I see it), is that there's more than 'hey let's give them a few billion bucks to fix this little cancer problem'. That's going to take time and quite a bit of effort and more non-monetary assistance than monetary assistance (not, of course, to imply that this isn't also important). Nonetheless, medicine is rather boring so I don't know much about this particular situation.
Money is what Cancer Research asks for, they have many charity's running through lack of funding, Cancer is a horrid way to die... Being eaten from indide out... Its not just funding to help treat cancer, that was just an example... The money could be used for all sorts, may be climate Control methods or some thing.
Quote from: landofshadows on February 01, 2007, 07:45:25 PM
Vengence in my eyes is justice. I don't call the police their shite, from previous experience... I handle things myself. Also I wouldn't just stop at him, I would kill as many members of the group as I could.
Vigilantism. Wonderful. And you call /
me/ crazy.
QuoteIf it was one on one no weapons or equal weaponry Yeah I would stand my ground, but if an invasion force came I would move and protect my family... Protecting my next of Kin or Partner would come first over possesions, if it came to it I would Burn my home and possesions or Rig it to expload if some one entered it. Again Vengence is justice.
Well, if you're part of a coordinated (or even not very coordinated) guerilla force, and you do indeed have a weapon or obtain one (surprisingly easy to do on battlegrounds, I've heard) then you'd be fine.
QuoteI meant if all Arms had been destroyed, no guns, no knives etc... States could still be policed.
I like black markets. Also, you can't do that. Not only since people use knives for utility purposes, but also because they're not that difficult to make at home.
QuoteYing and Yang, there has to be an equal balance according to some faith's... If you have never came close or have taken some ones life I guess you wouldn't understand how complex a feeling it is to hold anothers life in the wind... Or to have your own placed in a fragile position. Talking big about war and killing is one thing, trying to pull a trigger knowing your about to end some ones life is a little different... Treat those how you wish to be treated... I would not rage war whillingly for sake of pride or country's honour, I would only fight if there is no other option, self defence and self preservation... Evil is necessary when facing Evil, but to go looking for it is some thing else.
Do you really think I'm that much of a warmonger?
QuoteMoney is what Cancer Research asks for, they have many charity's running through lack of funding, Cancer is a horrid way to die... Being eaten from indide out... Its not just funding to help treat cancer, that was just an example... The money could be used for all sorts, may be climate Control methods or some thing.
Yet again, throwing a few billion at these things isn't going to solve them- it may help, but it won't solve shit.
QuoteDo you really think I'm that much of a warmonger?
Not just you... but the cabinet and Bush... oh and Mr Powell (or what ever his name is)
QuoteVigilantism. Wonderful. And you call /me/ crazy.
Why is seeking your own personal retribution Crazy... Especially when most crimanals in England are being let out as our prisions are all full...LOL
QuoteWell, if you're part of a coordinated (or even not very coordinated) guerilla force, and you do indeed have a weapon or obtain one (surprisingly easy to do on battlegrounds, I've heard) then you'd be fine.
I very much doubt I would be there... I don't see the point in fighting against lower ranking soliders they will just get more... I would act alone and try and take at leaders or higher ranking members...
QuoteYet again, throwing a few billion at these things isn't going to solve them- it may help, but it won't solve shit.
I guess throwing the money at funding War done no good in Iraq so I guess your right... May be we should just not fund sod all and use the money to stuff our pillows...LOL
Quote from: Deliciously_Saucy on January 31, 2007, 04:58:17 AM
Quote from: arrowone on January 31, 2007, 04:38:35 AM
It was a member of this site. And judging from the last time he got banned for a post he made, this last one must have been horrifyingly cruel and evil.
Also, according to silverline, that one post would have gotten pretty much anyone banned.
*Off-Topic* Was his banning permanent? I liked him... ;9
Well from what JH told me, it seems so.
Quote from: landofshadows on February 02, 2007, 05:27:32 PM
Not just you... but the cabinet and Bush... oh and Mr Powell (or what ever his name is)
I'm not a warmonger! >:
QuoteWhy is seeking your own personal retribution Crazy... Especially when most crimanals in England are being let out as our prisions are all full...LOL
Seeing as you won't listen to me because of whatever, I'll just tell you to ask a Brit with common sense. Such as someone in law enforcement.
QuoteI very much doubt I would be there... I don't see the point in fighting against lower ranking soliders they will just get more... I would act alone and try and take at leaders or higher ranking members...
You assume you actually would know how to do this? Anyways, they get replaced just as easily.
QuoteI guess throwing the money at funding War done no good in Iraq so I guess your right... May be we should just not fund sod all and use the money to stuff our pillows...LOL
Does war = Second Persian Gulf War in your mind? Do you not have the capability of discussing any other conflict?
Quote from: gonorrhoea on January 29, 2007, 09:01:32 PM
So. What's war good for? I don't mean any specific war, and I ask that no one says 'omg us is imperialisstic n shud pul out uf irak n afgani-w/e n afrika n al taht' or something like that. I mean war in general, what benefits has war brought us in human's history? Not just 20th century conflicts either, some of the earliest wars as well.
I'll see to it, with JH's help I'm sure, that we dispel the notions any of you may have (I'm sure somebody on this forum does) that war is inherently evil and should in some way be abolished, because it is a purely negative force in the world and hinders human progress and has in the past.
If there was no war... there would be no peace in some areas. Because of dictators. If we don't fight negative with negative... there won't be a positive. So negative + negative = positive. Am I right...? Just think about it... with out war what do you think would happen... what would and wouldn't happen. We'd all probably be slaves for some countries. Thats why we need war. We fight against dictators. There is always gonna be war. Theres always going to be war because people want power. They want to control and rule what ever they can. To be feared and more. Theres people who fight against the power hungry. We fight against the people who do wrong. So that we can be safe...
QuoteSeeing as you won't listen to me because of whatever, I'll just tell you to ask a Brit with common sense. Such as someone in law enforcement.
Actually it was a police officer who told me that should I want real justice to carry it out my-self... Here I will tell you a story... Once Upon a time in the real world of England the judges who brought infront of them a gang of youths of 12 strong for kicking in the face of one LOS and forcing him to eat from a liquidizer for four months all got set free apart from two, one was sentanced for 4 months but released for good behaviour and the other got community service. The police put 6 months into the case... Lots of tax payers money was spent... I felt an injustice, they nearly killed me for no other reason than they had been doing gas... I took up Kung Fu and Philipino Stick fighting, got my-self some nice soild crome bars with grips, and the rest is history I don't want to repeat.
QuoteYou assume you actually would know how to do this?
Maybe I would have some idea... You assume you know me.
Quotethey get replaced just as easily.
They do, and they die just the same too, and it takes them awhile to get their heads together, it knocks the regiment out of sync, it's how the American's beat the English all those many years ago.
QuoteDoes war = Second Persian Gulf War in your mind? Do you not have the capability of discussing any other conflict?
Vietnam then... LOL
Hi
BlazeQuoteIf there was no war... there would be no peace in some areas. Because of dictators. If we don't fight negative with negative... there won't be a positive. So negative + negative = positive. Am I right...? Just think about it... with out war what do you think would happen... what would and wouldn't happen. We'd all probably be slaves for some countries. Thats why we need war. We fight against dictators. There is always gonna be war. Theres always going to be war because people want power. They want to control and rule what ever they can. To be feared and more. Theres people who fight against the power hungry. We fight against the people who do wrong. So that we can be safe...
Fight fire with fire... a nice argueement. I don't know, I just think War is a waste of life unless it provides a better outcome than if the War didn't happen. I mean look at whats going on in Plastien at the moment... Or the Plans forming to attack Iran...
Attacking Iran would be MENTAL... We have more Muslim Faith holders in the UK than we do True Christian's, it will spark off riots and may be even a war at home, it will be classed as an unholy war, and all the terrorist factions supprted by Iran will clam together to help Iran:- http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/6330353.st
gonorrhoea - You wanting to be in the army could have you walking about in Iran with very little equipment and a half baked idea of training... I would strongly suggest a new carrer plan.
Quote from: landofshadows on February 05, 2007, 08:41:35 AM
Actually it was a police officer who told me that should I want real justice to carry it out my-self... Here I will tell you a story... Once Upon a time in the real world of England the judges who brought infront of them a gang of youths of 12 strong for kicking in the face of one LOS and forcing him to eat from a liquidizer for four months all got set free apart from two, one was sentanced for 4 months but released for good behaviour and the other got community service. The police put 6 months into the case... Lots of tax payers money was spent... I felt an injustice, they nearly killed me for no other reason than they had been doing gas... I took up Kung Fu and Philipino Stick fighting, got my-self some nice soild crome bars with grips, and the rest is history I don't want to repeat.
What the FUCK!?
QuoteMaybe I would have some idea... You assume you know me.
Well, you've said you've never been in the military.
QuoteThey do, and they die just the same too, and it takes them awhile to get their heads together, it knocks the regiment out of sync, it's how the American's beat the English all those many years ago.
Saying the Americans defeated the Brits only because they targeted officers and other leaders is a vast oversimplification.
QuoteVietnam then... LOL
:|
Quote from: DoxIf there was no war... there would be no peace in some areas. Because of dictators. If we don't fight negative with negative... there won't be a positive. So negative + negative = positive. Am I right...? Just think about it... with out war what do you think would happen... what would and wouldn't happen. We'd all probably be slaves for some countries. Thats why we need war. We fight against dictators. There is always gonna be war. Theres always going to be war because people want power. They want to control and rule what ever they can. To be feared and more. Theres people who fight against the power hungry. We fight against the people who do wrong. So that we can be safe...
...Wow.
Quote from: landofshadowsI mean look at whats going on in Plastien at the moment...
In defence of the Israelis, the violence has often been instigated by the Palestinians, who aren't shy of civilian attacks and have waged a guerilla war for many years.
QuoteOr the Plans forming to attack Iran...
That's all they are. Plans. I doubt they would actually attack Iran in the near-future.
Quotegonorrhoea - You wanting to be in the army could have you walking about in Iran with very little equipment and a half baked idea of training... I would strongly suggest a new carrer plan.
I was planning on joining Special Forces, actually. Thusly I would have plenty of equipment (in the Seals, for example, they generally have about 150 lbs of equipment IIRC) and wonderful training. And even in regular infantry, the US forces are some of the best trained in the world.
QuoteWell, you've said you've never been in the military.
Yeah and... Doesn't mean nothing.
QuoteSaying the Americans defeated the Brits only because they targeted officers and other leaders is a vast oversimplification.
It's the main factor... I know there was more to it, but thats what it boiled down to. And most of those that took to arms had been formed from militia (Normal people, no Army training).
QuoteIn defence of the Israelis, the violence has often been instigated by the Palestinians, who aren't shy of civilian attacks and have waged a guerilla war for many years.
&
QuoteThat's all they are. Plans. I doubt they would actually attack Iran in the near-future.
I guess you haven't seen the Palesteinians are at war with other Palestinians at the moment...?
Loads of blood shed and the peace talks now are bolloxed... And thats adding to the catalyst of Bush turning his troops with help from Israel to start a war on Iran, or at least thats one idea behind Bush sending more troops into Iraq, so he has as much ground presants as he can with out saying there invading Iran, some think Bushes approach to Iraq and the fact he ignored his generals is all part and parcel of a larger agender... IRAN...
QuoteI was planning on joining Special Forces, actually. Thusly I would have plenty of equipment (in the Seals, for example, they generally have about 150 lbs of equipment IIRC) and wonderful training. And even in regular infantry, the US forces are some of the best trained in the world.
Special force may mean you get your own Knife and a Back pack full of water, oh and a Gas mask to share with 8 others... ANd yes your right thats the best your getting...LOL. The only reason I wanted to go in the RAF is you get a Plane, you have loads of amo, and your at a distance you get given targets of importance not any thing that moves and looks remotely like the enemy, for one you don't have to worry about members of your own "Special opp's" group shooting you bu mistake.
I was also thinking of joining the force... I was thinking of Air Force or Navy Seals... but now I'm thinking about Under cover police officer.
It's odd... I tried out for the police, but they said I had to large a medical record...LOL
They have the fatest buggers ever working for em, yet they would take me on as I have fallen from a few tree's, and been hit by more Cars than in a multi story car park... Whats with that... if any thing it proves I can take a good beating...LOL
Quote from: landofshadows on February 05, 2007, 09:18:22 PM
I guess you haven't seen the Palesteinians are at war with other Palestinians at the moment...?
I can't say I'm surprised. Link to an article about it? I guess if all the Israelis move to Europe (and by Europe I mean Europe proper, the Americas, Australia, etc.), there won't be a stop to bloodshed- it's just that fewer Jews will be involved.
QuoteLoads of blood shed and the peace talks now are bolloxed... And thats adding to the catalyst of Bush turning his troops with help from Israel to start a war on Iran, or at least thats one idea behind Bush sending more troops into Iraq, so he has as much ground presants as he can with out saying there invading Iran, some think Bushes approach to Iraq and the fact he ignored his generals is all part and parcel of a larger agender... IRAN...
A ground invasion of Iran would require at least 300,000 American troops and tons more money and support than Bush has. Could you imagine trying to manage three Middle Eastern hellholes at the same time?
QuoteSpecial force may mean you get your own Knife and a Back pack full of water, oh and a Gas mask to share with 8 others... ANd yes your right thats the best your getting...LOL. The only reason I wanted to go in the RAF is you get a Plane, you have loads of amo, and your at a distance you get given targets of importance not any thing that moves and looks remotely like the enemy, for one you don't have to worry about members of your own "Special opp's" group shooting you bu mistake.
This just goes to show that you have no idea what you're talking about. Do you honestly think that US forces, particularly their tip of the spear forces, are so ill-equipped?
Besides- A SEAL could take down an enemy base singlehandedly with nothing but a 3" pocketknife. :D Well, ok, maybe not, but they're pretty badass.
Dox- Did BUD/S scare you off? :(
Navy seals are alomost Viking Bad Ass. Although if a seal had a sword, that would be totally kick ass.
Every one knows that would be godly.
QuoteA ground invasion of Iran would require at least 300,000 American troops and tons more money and support than Bush has. Could you imagine trying to manage three Middle Eastern hellholes at the same time?
LOL... Your gunna need many more troops than 300,000... Iran has two kinds of armed forces: the regular forces and the Islamic Revolutionary Guards Corps totalling about 545,000... Thats not including reservists or NOrmal ground troops...
The regular armed forces has an estimated 420,000 troops in three branches Ground Forces, 350,000 troops, Navy 18,000 sailors and Air Force, 52,000 airmen. Iran also has a paramilitary volunteer force called the Basij, which includes about 90,000 full-time, active-duty uniformed Basij members, up to 300,000 reservists, and a further 11 million men and women who could be mobilized.
But America has more than enough power out there at the moment to cripple Iran... With the Israel army along with his own...
Israel has approx Equipment Number:-
Battle Tanks 3,657
APC 10,419
Artillery 5,432
Combat Aircraft 402
Helicopters 130
The Have Nukes but no official count known
Israel has some of the WORLDS Best technology when it comes to War... If Israel wanted to they could lever two shades of shite out of Iran. (Not without taking HEAVY damage them selves)
QuoteLink to an article about it?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/6334981.stm
Iran is being very outspoken about getting revenge against about taking revenge for the attacks Israel have carried out thus far:- http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/6069456.stm
QuoteThis just goes to show that you have no idea what you're talking about
Yeah I know very little about the Seals to be fair... But I do know reports in the latest conflict say the men out there are ill-Equiped and informed.
Quote from: landofshadows on February 05, 2007, 10:16:56 PM
It's odd... I tried out for the police, but they said I had to large a medical record...LOL
They have the fatest buggers ever working for em, yet they would take me on as I have fallen from a few tree's, and been hit by more Cars than in a multi story car park... Whats with that... if any thing it proves I can take a good beating...LOL
Ahaha, Tell me about it... Either that or they think your dumb enough to get injured for no apparent reason on the job... or try and get sick days off... or make yourself get injured so you don't have to go to work. lol... But I seriously don't know what I'm gonna do... navy Seals or Under Cover Cop.
Quote from: landofshadows on February 06, 2007, 07:46:25 PM
LOL... Your gunna need many more troops than 300,000... Iran has two kinds of armed forces: the regular forces and the Islamic Revolutionary Guards Corps totalling about 545,000... Thats not including reservists or NOrmal ground troops...
And? They're much more ill-equipped and trained than American forces. That's not my concern. They'd be wiped out within a few months by bombing and a series of battles, without high American casualty lists. You know that in 1988, the US Navy destroyed half of Iran's fleet in one afternoon? The Air Force would be crippled quickly, as well.
Lastly, Baseej are nothing but human wave attack forces. In the Iran-Iraq War, most were armed with nothing but a Koran. Quite ineffective against superior American airpower, I'd say.
I'm concerned about Iran's guerillas, and the terrorist attacks which would run rampant in the States. It'd be
fucked up.QuoteBut America has more than enough power out there at the moment to cripple Iran... With the Israel army along with his own...
/
The IDF is so motherfucking badass./ No seriously, the IDF could conquer the world.
And you're right, Fu. SEALs need swords. If I ever get to join the Navy SEALs, I am so going to get a sword to bring with me. :P
I KNOW WHAT WAR IS GOOD FOR
If you get to much people in your country you just start a war and stop as soon the annoying people are gone..
But if there is a other reason its retarted,..
You start a war Go finish it yourself freaking morons..
We fight to protect what ? The president that started it ?
Go fuck your momma i would say.
QuoteIf you get to much people in your country you just start a war and stop as soon the annoying people are gone..
But if there is a other reason its retarted,..
You start a war Go finish it yourself freaking morons..
We fight to protect what ? The president that started it ?
Go fuck your momma i would say.
I think I know what your saying...
Going to a War makes you the agressor... your no longer a defender but an attacker, and going to war on a faulse pretence as a defence on Terror is not a good enough reason, or justification for the conflict in Iraq.... I know your on about Iraq, as you reffer to the War being started but not finished.
If the War on Iraq was to stop now... one in eight Muslims in England respect and admire Terrorist factions for fighting the West already, I can see those numbers at least doubling.
Fighting further and may be even taking on Iran would make a War on the Muslim Faith or Shira Law rather than a War on Terror and spark an unholy war and an uprising... either way, the West will loose... Unless the West starts a trend of Ethnic cleansing... MENTAL... I can't belive I am typing this rubbish based on loose facts knocking about in the news and in my head... Why would the Media want us to see this, in this light ?
I don't whats going on... Not what's really going on...
But War, what it's good for is filling graves in the name of a Flag.
Quote from: landofshadows on February 13, 2007, 12:14:04 AMGoing to a War makes you the agressor... your no longer a defender but an attacker, and going to war on a faulse pretence as a defence on Terror is not a good enough reason, or justification for the conflict in Iraq.... I know your on about Iraq, as you reffer to the War being started but not finished.
Although I don't agree with the Second Gulf War, often an aggressive war IS good and necessary- WWII will be my token example for this.
QuoteFighting further and may be even taking on Iran would make a War on the Muslim Faith or Shira Law rather than a War on Terror and spark an unholy war and an uprising... either way, the West will loose... Unless the West starts a trend of Ethnic cleansing... MENTAL... I can't belive I am typing this rubbish based on loose facts knocking about in the news and in my head... Why would the Media want us to see this, in this light ?
You do realise that if we attacked Iran, it would not cause any more of a jihad than the invasion of Iraq. It's not like all of the Iranis hate us, it's not a very homogenous country, and not all Muslims like Iran very much anyways.
Err...Iran is a sizeable opponent, at least compared to Iraq. NOt to mention that would stretch our forces even THINNER, given the distance. It's really, really, REALLY not a risk we need to take.
I rally dought that we really get benefit for beating a war i think that most enemys get benefit than us even if we won that war. example if random small island declaed war than was defeated in two months then we'll just give a crap load of stuff for loosing the war.
I just want to have my say of war. Like any human I dislike war. But then again, war is something that we all need. War reduces world populations, let us express our anger and taste for blood. We are animals and it is natural for us to be violent. Plus, war also brings about great inventions. Nuclear power, radar, faster planes, medicine, we are all refined a created through armed conflict. Also, animals work great when calmed, but we work greater when our own lives are at stake.
War just wastes resources and lives of humans.
If humans were not stuck up ass holes, and none of them wanted any more than what they had, ware would never had been "invented"
Quote from: Forcystus on February 27, 2007, 07:52:43 PMIf humans were not stuck up ass holes, and none of them wanted any more than what they had, ware would never had been "invented"
We wouldn't have had the emancipation of slaves or women if people were satisfied with their lot in life. Of course, there wouldn't have been slaves in the first place. Now that I think of it, we wouldn't have
anything. Humans would be nothing more than hunter-gatherers if everyone was as resigned to their situation as you wish they were.
War is cruel, but it's not pointless. Maybe it's a part of evolution? Natural selection, the strongest will survive, etc.? Lots of lives might be lost in a war, but it's for a greater goal. I'm against war, but I know why it happens and why it sometimes is good.
I'm completely against war. (big shock)
I can understand why people wage wars, but I still believe that it's pointless.
In my opinion, war creates animosity and spite, and that creates more war, and more animosity, and round and round it goes.
Take the US' war on terrorism, before that started, you never heard about terrorists.
But now it's a major problem, seems like for every terrorist cell they kill, 10 new ones, driven by hatred, are created.
But people seem to enjoy murdering eachother, so wars will always exist.
GTFO MY THREAD.
Wars will always be natural part of humanity. We will still fight phsyically even though it is againest the social norms. We are animals and we will act and react as animals. There is always be a "bad guy" or friction in this world.
I believe, war is an act of stupidity. There has been some good out of it, but it could of been achieved by simple intelligence as well.
When you and your older sister fight over who goes on the computer, you usually end up bashing the hell out of each other. My solution is let the stupid governor fight his/her own battles. If countries hated Australia's Prime Minister, they should go to his face and give him a whack in his fat mouth.
~Winged
...So are you for or against war? The first sentence says against, but the rest... ???
I'm against, just if they really wanted to fight over territory like dogs then they should do it themselves, not get others involved.
~Winged
Good idea, let Bush go get killed in Iran if thats what he wants, no one will miss him.
Right. He doesn't matter as anything but a catalyst at this point. If he dies, it's just another excuse for us to stay there- much like it would have been if they had gotten Cheney. As much as could care less about him, we need to keep him alive and safe; possibly from his own cabinet.
People believe war is human nature, but animals kill each other all the time. We are no different from animals, it is nature my friends.
Long opinion short: War is inevitable, fucked up people will always exist among us.
and if you still arent convinced, read this quote:
"They dream of a world without war, a world without hate. We dream of attacking that world, because they'd never expect it."
Quote from: Elegy on February 27, 2007, 09:15:04 PM
I'm completely against war. (big shock)
I can understand why people wage wars, but I still believe that it's pointless.
In my opinion, war creates animosity and spite, and that creates more war, and more animosity, and round and round it goes.
Take the US' war on terrorism, before that started, you never heard about terrorists.
But now it's a major problem, seems like for every terrorist cell they kill, 10 new ones, driven by hatred, are created.
But people seem to enjoy murdering eachother, so wars will always exist.
That's so right. I think there will always be war and that people benefit from war but other people don't. It doesn't exactly all up up good. War is inevitable, and for one party it's a good thing - for the other it isn't. In the end I have a feeling that a country will grow so power hungry as to try and take over a vast majority of the world. Sounds stupid, I know.
*COUGHIraqCOUGH*
I think war is an extended version of fights over territory and mating rights in the animal world.
~Winged