Civil Debate

Humor me for two pictures with two words describing them:

Hero


Fraud





I'm genuinely interested in points of view here. What are your thoughts?

Jenner:
“For all intents and purposes, I’m a woman,” Jenner told ABC’s Diane Sawyer in an exclusive interview that aired Friday in a special two-hour edition of ABC News’ “20/20.”

“People look at me differently. They see you as this macho male, but my heart and my soul and everything that I do in life -- it is part of me,” Jenner, 65, said. “That female side is part of me. That’s who I am.”

Article here.

Dolezal:
Rachel Dolezal, the former NAACP chapter president accused of pretending to be black, tells TODAY's Matt Lauer in an exclusive live interview that she identifies as black — something she started doing at the age of five.

"I was drawing self-portraits with the brown crayon instead of the peach crayon, and black curly hair," she told Lauer. But she insisted she never deceived anyone as numerous critics have suggested.

"I do take exception to that because it's a little more complex than me identifying as black or answering a question of, are you black or white?" she said.

Article here.

I'm not really following either one of these stories, but I guess I'll squeeze out my novice opinion.

I think the difference is that Jenner came out with it, and made that bold leap, and I imagine that takes a lot of courage to do. On the other hand, Dolezal deceived an entire organization based on color. If she had been honest about it in the first place, it's possible that things wouldn't have come crashing down on her like this. Or at the very least, that's probably why people view her as a "fraud" instead.

I enjoy reading you opinion while your signature machine gun blasts the heck out of my computer screen.

I enjoy reading you opinion while your signature machine gun blasts the heck out of my computer screen.

This signature makes me feel TOUGH B)

she's a fraud because she didn't always say she identified as black she said she WAS black.

Jenner transitioned, it's not like jenner was competing in female events dressed up like a lady in the 70's or whatever.

dipshit there pretended to be black and hid the fact that she only "identified" as black.

Strike basically said what I was thinking.
Though honestly, is it really that much different than the people that identify as native american when they're barely 1/16th cherokee?

also hey nobody gave a shit when michael jackson turned white
clearly there is trans race bias

(that was a joke btw. it says civil, not serious :v)

So she lied and used the black label falsely and to her advantage, thus making her claim illegimate?

Clarifying.

Basically, yeah.

can't unsee the white person now ._____.

I admire Jenner's bravery to embrace who she really is, despite societal adversity. I can't imagine living with that kind of hurt for that long. I think her story will serve as a good catalyst for getting people to start thinking more about gender identity, and how better to help trans people.

I can't say the same for Dolezal. She's spent years building an elaborate lie - even going as far as to lie about who her parents were - and when she was found out, she went on the defensive, even going as far as to step down. Did she do some good for the black community? Yeah, and that's admirable, but she could have done that while still being open about the fact that she's ethnically white.

Doleza created a lied, pretended and called herself as a black person, using it to her advantage to get where she was, and then, not contacting her parents . . . and been still defensive about it says a lot.
The thing that makes it worst, is that she keeps been defensive about it instead of going and apologizing to the people she 'lied' to.

And example I can think of is:
That 'weeboo' kind of person who literally rejects his ethnicity, and pretends to be japanese, but instead makes an insult to the culture.
Then there's the guy who likes it, but doesn't pretend to be something he is not, and does throw away his ethnicity & culture.

Jenner didn't pretend, she's herself, becase she didn't create a 'lie', she accepts who she is, and how she felt, without rejecting herself nor creating a lie and entering as someone said a beauty pagent, or denying that she was a man. There's a big difference there.