Improving the forums! [RMRK is NOT dying]

No, this is not a troll post.

Days ago, in our sleep deprived states, Sophist and I discussed the state of rmrk and how much it depresses us to see it like this. Other forums are flourishing from the RPG Maker sales, and we're just kinda dead. That's not cool. RMRK is a place of character, with history beyond compare, powerful loyalty and friendships, and even love. Members have driven across states and even hours on a random day to spend time with each other. We've always been there to catch each other when the fan gets hit and--

This is all so sappy. Moving on.

Anyways, we decided that we wanted to do something. Even something as small and random as create a thread. We wanna know what you guys think, and I'm not just talking about the elites. I made this thread out in the open so ANYONE can lend an opinion. This isn't another one of those White-Knight "MAKE RMRK CLEANER" things. I encourage anyone's opinion or ideas on that matter - the matter being how to help RMRK thrive again. This shouldn't turn into a debate as to where RMRK should go from here, and how far it will/should stray from the past.

So, uh, I totally know that this thread isn't really news to anyone, nor will it necessarily make a difference. But I guess I'd prefer looking like than idiot than not trying at all. I also know that things typically slow down around this time of year (I think?), but this is still pretty bad.

So, I guess... lend me your opinions? Be open and honest. Don't be afraid to post, even if you're newer around here. Everyone's word counts. Feel free to share any ideas you have.

Stop lyyyiiiing. It's only a flesh wound!

Seriously. Do some contests, do whatever little things that bring back people that you normally do, and things will get better for a while. It's difficult to always be doing that sort of thing, though, so of course activity's gonna wane.

And maybe someday we can get people we care about back! It's always possible. (Even if those people do not come back, that does not mean we are barred from going to them!)

basically rah rah positivity etc

I'm always here if you need any help running/organizing contests. 

Just throwing an idea out here, but I really think it would help if we made sure that threads had replies. If people come here only to see that most threads are dead without any replies, it doesn't speak well for the forum as a whole. If you see a new thread in the RPG maker section, post in it. (Make sure it's not spam though, of course.)

Agreed with both of you.

And honestly, that's probably one of the major things. Around other forums, just about every question gets an answer of some form, or at least some attention.

I don't necessarily think rmrk should be based off of a reward system, but I like to give people pokemons every now and then when I see them being helpful. But more than that, I think recognition goes even farther. There's members that most of us here don't know that step in and help out a lot. I think a "thank you" will go a long way. Even a "+rep". I know our rep system is broken, but whenever I was a newbie, seeing somebody post that to me made me feel like I dun good. Like a pat on the back.

*edit*
Another thing that might help out, that has concerned me for awhile, is trying to find ways to encourage people to play each other's games. We really don't get much of that around here anymore. ;_; Contests sort of help out with that, because people know that their games are going to get played and rated because there are judges involved.

That being said, we've been trying to get a contest rolling sometime soon, so hopefully that will help. (:

I think RMRK needs to go back to its roots.

We are sorely lacking in new resources. Modern hasn't made a new script in a while, and Modern's scripts are one of the huge draws to RMRK. I mean honestly, I joined because I used most of his scripts and needed help with them.

What does rpgmakerweb have that we don't? Dedicated resource artists.
Celianna, Lunarea, Archeia, they all make stuff at regular intervals, and that's a huge boon to activity.

What I suggest is that we make some sort of regular resource release, similar to their "ReStaff". If we can make decent, high quality resources, we'll grab more attention, and hopefully, more members.

Oooh, a good idea!

What about more resource challenges/contests? Say, every now and then, we can have a challenge much like the days of resources thingie? Maybe we can have people request stuff and the contestants can pick what they'd like from the requests board and make that and submit it? Or, they can make something else, if nothing there catches their fancy? Maybe?

I wouldn't mind slowly building up another resource pack (haven't done that since those awful FE edits years ago...)

Posting more often is good. I feel like often I see people posting in social threads involved with people they're already familiar with. There's also some general negativity to new members that's become somewhat endemic to the site. It's not like it's all completely undeserved, but it's there.

That's not always what's going on, or even most of the time, you might say.

I visit RMRK once every couple of months as of late, and that's what I see. That's what your potential new users see. That's the point. This place lacks a welcoming, positive atmosphere. It's become a clubhouse. If you want activity, then that needs fixing.

So, don't tell the new members to drink bleach? Sounds tough, but I'll try.

Well, one thing I'll point out is that I myself am one of those people that try to come as often as possible, but find myself lacking a reason to come here; I think one thing that might help out this site would be encouraging other members? I've had a post up about a major overhaul of XP into XPAce and it's made a bit of a splash elsewhere, drawing some of the top scripters to work on it. Here, I don't think I got a single reply. Now, I'm not trying to fish for compliments or praise here, but it's pretty daunting to get so mush attention elsewhere, and not a single reply of "oh, cool", or even a "that's so stupid".

Secondly, would be certain members possibly toning things down a bit, as they seem to have a knack for driving away long-term site members. I'm not saying to go through and scrub out the forums and make 'em all pg-13 or anything, but, I myself get sick of the same old perverted crap, and insults from the same members all the time, and I tend to consider myself to have a rater high tolerance for ridicule and and rudeness.



If you want actual thoughts and suggestions, I mean, I'm always here, and contrary to popular belief, I have successfully run several forums since 2006 or so.. I would think I have a little knowledge on getting a site to live..

I like the resource contests or resource pack releases. More contests always draw more new users, the problem is keeping them here. Week long contests for mapping, single scene designs, puzzles, boss battles, much like enterbrain did also could help.
As much as I hate writing short responses to long, well thought out posts, I can never seem to get my ideas out in a coherent way. 

Well I'm new here, but I've been active on VXAN and RMW for awhile, and I really think the only thing holding you guys back is the resources! I mean, resource is in the name of the site, but all I see in the resource threads is ancient stuff! No offense or anything.

I think it would be a great idea if more talented people (people not like me :p ) started working on resources again and scripts too! You all seem pretty nice, and maybe a bit crazy, but nice nonetheless. That and helping out any newbs that end up here right away. It will make them want to come back to ask more questions, and when they aren't dumb asses anymore, they may just become friends.

I just got here, so I don't want things to die yet :p

Well I'm new here, but I've been active on VXAN and RMW for awhile, and I really think the only thing holding you guys back is the resources! I mean, resource is in the name of the site, but all I see in the resource threads is ancient stuff! No offense or anything.

This. This right here is the problem. And it's not because we don't have talented people here. It's because we often only make things for ourselves. We forget to give back to the community.

Finally got a chance to say this xD

Spoiler for warning, long rant:

It's been said before by pheonix and Arrow, but I feel I should give my two cents because this is actually why I'm not active here almost at all.

I joined rmrk back in 2010 under the name LinkyBoy15. I was making a kh fan game but obviously lacked any kind of graphics/scripting skills at the time. I got a few rude comments and I left this place for months without even looking back. Then I wanted to come back but I had a bad experience so I stayed away.
Long story short, here I am on an account I created to forget the old stuff. Yet, I'm still not active because I just don't like the community ._. I've checked the unread posts almost on a daily basis for the past year or so, and honestly that has been enough to make me not want to post. So many times I have seen questions from members who clearly just signed up for help, only to be trolled by one of the mods or advanced members. It's annoying and childish. Yes, noobs are annoying and their game's will probably fail, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't help them. If you don't want to help then you can ignore them, you're not forced to post sarcasm... I know that most of us are adults and not easily hurt by stupid online comments anymore, but even then, it doesn't make them any less annoying.

Like arrow said, the community has a clubhouse feel and it needs to go. It's not inviting at all. I could easily be active/contribute more here as well, but I don't because I don't like it here. The only real reason I even come here anymore is because it was the first community i joined, and I kept hoping that it would change it's attitude sometime. It's not everyone really but it's enough of you guys D:

Just like any other community, rmrk has its pros/cons. Unfortunately, I feel that the cons outweigh the pros.
A list in my opinion:
Pros: Support for all 3 engines, Decent community discussions, GIAW/Contests, (Pokemon?)
Cons: Scarce support in the help department, Unnecessary sarcasm, 2muchspam(more spam than any other topic), too eliteist (which is a problem at a lot of forums), not enough new resources/no resource flow at all, too many topics go ignored (but with tons of views)

It has potential to be the most active/best community, but it needs work.

I really do like the... not... clubhouseness? ... I don't like that, but I like -- I like that this place is small. Other sites have overwhelming amounts of people, and those sites terrify me.

There are some people here who can be really, really rude without it being justified. There are some people who I will never be able to think of as anything but jerkish trolls. But it's simple enough to not interact with them.

Maybe we could have a contest to, like. Make resources? Could even combine that with the newbie/mentor thing I've heard yuyubabe talking about. Dunno. But I like this place even if I'm not a cool kid and I don't want it dead. <3

Good to see I wasn't the only one catching that smell on the air.

Resource generation would be a good thing. If I write music for a project and the project ends up dying, or I just get a random idea, or I do a transcription, I could try post it as a resource. Not like I can honestly claim covers as my own work anyway.

Unnecessary sarcasm, 2muchspam

RMRK has always been a bastion of free speech. We try our best to keep things civil outside of the sewers, but if you're expecting us to censor people, it's just not gonna happen.

The criticism we give can be harsh at times, but I don't think anyone has been outright awful to someone genuinely wanting to better themselves, at least not in recent memory.

All that being said, if something someone said or did legitimately bothered you, whether that be from a regular member or one of the staff, you can always pm one of us. We do want to help. 

No I don't mean to stop it completely, every forum has its fun and inside jokes, etc but when the forum's new posts are more spam than anything else ._. I mean come on lol is this an rpg maker community or tumblr. You're right I could message a mod or something, but it's honestly just not worth it. I'd rather just keep lurking in peace.

I'm only replying because there is part of me that does really like this place haha

The second R in RMRK. Let's make some cool resources.

More substantial replies. It's discouraging when I post something and I don't get much useful feedback at all. Let's be critical so we can grow. If creative threads got the quality of posts that beanbags threads do, we'd be in good standings. People would absolutely WANT to come here.

Twitter. RMRK has this Twitter sitting here and it's not being used for more than anything but a weird bot that links to posts. That bot should shove off and the Twitter should be used to break our isolation and reach the broader RPG Maker and indie games community, keep RMRK on the minds of people even when they're not here and encourage activity on the forums by linking to interesting discussions and talking about community events. I asked Roph for access a while back so I could do this very thing but he said he didn't know the password. Recover it!

The criticism we give can be harsh at times, but I don't think anyone has been outright awful to someone genuinely wanting to better themselves, at least not in recent memory.

Abigaila!?

Chaos_Zexion, akatharsia and anyone else: if you could provide examples of what you're talking about, I think that would be helpful.

No I don't mean to stop it completely, every forum has its fun and inside jokes, etc but when the forum's new posts are more spam than anything else ._. I mean come on lol is this an rpg maker community or tumblr. You're right I could message a mod or something, but it's honestly just not worth it. I'd rather just keep lurking in peace.

I'm only replying because there is part of me that does really like this place haha

Sorry if I come up as rude, and althou I feel I'm not one to talk, I'm going to say it's that kind of atitude of 'It's not worth it, I'll just lurk' that simply irks me off, You just do it and that's it, report if a member is molesting you or something, the whole not worth the trouble is the problem, because your not bringing any change, and literary, your encouraging it instead.

What we need is change, not something too big, our biggest problems comes from lack of Resources which we lack determined & motivated artist that post stuff on other forums like every week or month, and most of us who are still around, well, even myself, who can actually contribute need to put our little change to it.

Considering on those of us who can make resources, I can only say, we maybe lacking on the motivation department (I don't mean on rewards, don't take it that way), I for one don't feel motivated to make any more sprites on XP . . .
I dunno, I'm just writing what I think some of us is going throu, we have the people to make resources, we are just lacking on the motivational department of making resources (Aside for ourselves) for simply fun & sharing it.

Man, you guys are seriously awesome. Seriously. All of you. ;_; This is exactly what we needed: everyone is sharing ideas, no one is judging each other (I think), and I feel like we're making progress. I just want to thank some of you for coming out like this and sharing your opinions on the matter. I know it might have been kinda scary for some of you (or maybe not, I dunno), but man...I really appreciate this, guys. You might not all agree, but that's a helpful thing!

I'm going to generally try to summarize what's been said (lemme know if I miss something):

Resources
I think we can all agree that we're lacking in resources. I think contests or challenges will really pick up the pace here. After all, RMRK has a good number of members with artistic experience (artwork, music, etc). We even have a fair share of handy scripters lying around. I don't mean this in a crazy strict way, but as a mod, sometimes I think it might be a good idea for us to pop in and post a "thank you" or "awesome job!". Modern Alg did that for me when I was a noob and made stuff, and it made me super happy. In my newbie brain, THE Modern Algebra had stopped to talk to the likes of me. I was like afrafsawfwYEAHH!!! I felt like a hotshot. B) lol im so lame

Respect
I think it's fair to say that as long as the Sewers exists, there's a place where RMRK can still be RMRK. And the IRC, of course. Being rude for very little reason elsewhere seems a bit over-the-top. Those places are kind of the spots where you can feel free and say and do as you wish - which is really cool and that's honestly what we need. However, I do feel like there were times when some of us (myself included) would lash out unnecessarily in other parts of the forums. I agree that RMRK shouldn't be crazy censored, but I also think that there are points when we let things get a little too bad.

As Chaos said: he's had several bad experiences here. And he's still here. In fact, I'd say he's one of our top contributors right now, especially with scripting help.

Moderation
Like, mods. Yeah. B) I honestly can't tell you guys how many reported posts get ignored. There, I said it. Usually, the reports are over something silly, but I don't want to overlook something actually important. And along with the whole "thank you" thing, I think we should encourage helpfulness in general. I don't think we should be rule-heavy, but I think having some general sense of uniform might help out. I don't want us to be all "NO DOUBLE POSTING. READ OUR 10,000 PAGE RULES. THANK YOU.", but little things like putting [Solved] in front of a request when its done might help keep things a little tidy. That's just a suggestion, I promise I'm not being nit-picky. ;_;

Activity/Growth
Basically, I agree with Irock here. Having praise will help, I think, but having some critique will go a VERY long way. In a perfect society, we can set up a system where everyone gives and gets in return. Say, if I critique someone else's game, I know that everyone will be there to give me some feedback, too. Or maybe I just want to go out and help others with some criticism. Either way, I think we should certainly encourage that.

I see a lot of really helpful members around here fade out because they give so much and it goes unnoticed. Maybe they just don't want to be noticed, I dunno. People like Hiromu, Geoker, and Chaos (spelling oh god) are/have been great contributors, but we rarely hear anything about them.

As far as critiques go, I think we tend to get a lot of those when we hold game contests, because of the general level of excitement and having judges, of course. But what do we do for the normal stuff?

I agree 100% with what you said yuyubabe. Bascially covered everything that can use some fixin' and I'm also happy with the way this topic has gone.
Also, no judgement here 

RMRK is a great site and forum actually. When I was still a newbie and a XP / VX user, this has been the site where I go to, though it is only now that I registered.

Maybe organize some events that are exclusive on this site, or activities that entices new registered forum members, older members and about to come members to join and would stay on the site. Let's offer more help to those in need perhaps as well...

Resources
Modern Alg did that for me when I was a noob and made stuff, and it made me super happy. In my newbie brain, THE Modern Algebra had stopped to talk to the likes of me. I was like afrafsawfwYEAHH!!! I felt like a hotshot. B) lol im so lame

You're entirely right; the reason I went beyond making dumb little snippet edits and actually learning Ruby and making some decent scripts is the encouragement MA and cozziekuns gave me.

Moderation
Like, mods. Yeah. B) I honestly can't tell you guys how many reported posts get ignored. There, I said it. Usually, the reports are over something silly, but I don't want to overlook something actually important.

I've checked every reported post in my boards since I became their mod. #qualitystaff #betterthanu #stepupyourgamedee

o i c

Maybe pacman needs to be an global mod

;]

(I totally don't make that call )

Moderation
Like, mods. Yeah. B) I honestly can't tell you guys how many reported posts get ignored.

I also check every reported post I get. Though it gets old when some people report just for the fun of reporting