Socialism

[firerain]

If not everyone has the same opportunity, the system doesn't work.

Of course the system doesn't work.

The working class is gonna snap in this country, and then they'll be remembering more "victims of socialism". They push and push working people to their breaking point, and then when they finally stand up against the abuse, all the dead abusers are now victims. If you take all the "possible" wealth of the world and placed it on a pie chart, if one section of population has a majority of the pie there is less for everyone else. Wealth is power. They don't "need" it, they want it. Power to control other "free" individuals.

[Malson]

I wish there was a way to get the working parts of all those different systems, cram them in a box and say, "here's yer perfect government".

That's never going to happen. =/ Humans aren't perfect, so the same can be said for any human institution.

[Holkeye]

My point isn't that you're young, it's that you don't understand what you're opposing.

[EvilM00s]

Humans aren't perfect, so the same can be said for any human institution.

Oh, absolutely. It all comes down to personal responsibility, and nobody seems to want to take any. Doctors, for example, run abunch of unnessecary tests to cover their asses and avoid a lawsuit. The problem there starts with the patient: hey, sometimes you get bad news. I'm really sorry, I am, but sometimes there's nothing that can be done. Sometimes unseen complications happen no matter how thourogh the doc is. The problem continues with the docs: I don't wanna get sued, so I'm gonna run every test I can think of. That drives up the cost of healthcare, and now insurance companies get involved... ugh.

[chewey]

Even if I didn't have healthcare, I wouldn't want socialized health care. I'm not a greedy leech like so many other people. I prefer to work for my benefits. I don't want people to work for me.

[EvilM00s]

 

[chewey]

I really don't see why providing free healthcare to people is any less essential than keeping them safe from criminals... or ensuring them safety from fire... or etc. etc.

Irock, you don't even know what you're talking about ._. stop it

[Irock]

If not everyone has the same opportunity, the system doesn't work.

You can't give everyone the same exact opportunities. It can't be that way unless the government makes everyone have the same amount of wealth, and that wouldn't be right.

Everyone still has opportunities to become successful. From the moment you're born, you're given opportunities. Somewhere I have the opportunity to become president, but that won't happen because I have no plans of attempting to becoming the president. Every single person has the opportunities to make something of themselves.

Woah, buddy. Not cool. What if everyone in my field "considered a new career"?

Then I'm sure the government would reconsider giving health care to the men and women who work in your emergency field.

By your own argument, emergency services are essential and should be provided by the gov't. If that is true, gov't funds should go towards fire departments' upkeep and payroll, and thet are not. With the addition of healthcare alone, my salary would be enough to support me and my family of four others.

More government funds SHOULD go to the fire departments' upkeep and payroll. That doesn't mean we need to form a total socialized health care system.

I planned my career around service, as does anyone else in my position. If the gov't was dispensing funds to FD's the way it should, I could afford insurance. I maintain, they are not holding up their end of the deal. And why not?

Again, I agree that they should fund the FD's (assuming you mean fire departments) properly.

While I agree that the gov't should be involved in free enterprise as little as possible, more fuel efficient cars are just good for everyone, and the environment. Isn't that everyone's responsibility?

Global warming isn't a threat to us, real or not.

It's only good for the people who were able to take advantage of the cash for clunkers system. The taxpayers payed for a few people to get better cars just so those people would have to buy less gas. That's ridiculous.

http://img229.imageshack.us/img229/3108/articlesocialismchart.jpg

I've already gone over everything except Department of Transportation.

Department of Transportation is necessary because without it, roads would pose a greater risk to people. It protects people.

Public libraries are still video rental stores for books. There's no reason they shouldn't be owned by private businesses.

I really don't see why providing free healthcare to people is any less essential than keeping them safe from criminals... or ensuring them safety from fire... or etc. etc.

Because criminals, fires, dangerous roads, and terrorists are dangerous. Debt isn't.

[tSwitch]

I really don't see why providing free healthcare to people is any less essential than keeping them safe from criminals... or ensuring them safety from fire... or etc. etc.

Because criminals, fires, dangerous roads, and terrorists are dangerous. Debt isn't.

I lol'd so hard.

[chewey]

I really don't see why providing free healthcare to people is any less essential than keeping them safe from criminals... or ensuring them safety from fire... or etc. etc.

Because criminals, fires, dangerous roads, and terrorists are dangerous. Debt isn't.
[/quote]
Obviously whatever you need healthcare for is dangerous, so why should anybody have to pay A LOT OF MONEY to get treated for it?

[EvilM00s]

You can't give everyone the same exact opportunities. It can't be that way unless the government makes everyone have the same amount of wealth, and that wouldn't be right.

Why not?

Global warming isn't a threat to us, real or not.

Now that's disappointing. Everything else you said, even if I disagreed, showed some thought.

Because criminals, fires, dangerous roads, and terrorists are dangerous. Debt isn't.

You've obviously never been in want of basic needs.

[tSwitch]

I love how America was founded and formed on the idea of equal opportunity and such, but people fight equality so hard.

Also lol Irockpolitics
go listen to Rush Limbaugh some more.

[Irock]

I really don't see why providing free healthcare to people is any less essential than keeping them safe from criminals... or ensuring them safety from fire... or etc. etc.

Because criminals, fires, dangerous roads, and terrorists are dangerous. Debt isn't.

Obviously whatever you need healthcare for is dangerous, so why should anybody have to pay A LOT OF MONEY to get treated for it?

Because doctors don't work for free, medicine isn't free, and it's not my responsibility if you're sick or get in a car accident.

You can't give everyone the same exact opportunities. It can't be that way unless the government makes everyone have the same amount of wealth, and that wouldn't be right.

Why not?

Because if everyone had to have the same amount of wealth, and their kids had to have the same amount of wealth, getting a job wouldn't mean anything because you'd have the same amount of wealth as everyone else.

Global warming isn't a threat to us, real or not.

Now that's disappointing. Everything else you said, even if I disagreed, showed some thought.

Global warming, real or not, simply isn't a threat to us.

Because criminals, fires, dangerous roads, and terrorists are dangerous. Debt isn't.

You've obviously never been in want of basic needs.

Not having to pay money for something isn't a need.

I love how America was founded and formed on the idea of equal opportunity and such, but people fight equality so hard.

We have equal opportunity in the sense that everyone has the opportunity to become what they want to become.

[firerain]

I love how America was founded and formed on the idea of equal opportunity and such, but people fight equality so hard.

We have equal opportunity in the sense that everyone has the opportunity to become what they want to become.

No they don't.

Global warming isn't a threat to us, real or not.

yes it is.

[chewey]

I really don't see why providing free healthcare to people is any less essential than keeping them safe from criminals... or ensuring them safety from fire... or etc. etc.

Because criminals, fires, dangerous roads, and terrorists are dangerous. Debt isn't.

Obviously whatever you need healthcare for is dangerous, so why should anybody have to pay A LOT OF MONEY to get treated for it?

Because doctors don't work for free, medicine isn't free, and it's not my responsibility if you're sick or get in a car accident.

Police officers work for free now? Irock, everything is still paid for. Only now it's paid for by the government (through taxes) which takes a huge load off everybody.

[Irock]

I love how America was founded and formed on the idea of equal opportunity and such, but people fight equality so hard.

We have equal opportunity in the sense that everyone has the opportunity to become what they want to become.

No they don't.

Yes they do. If you work hard enough, anyone has the potential to become what they want to be. It may not be easy, but it can happen.

I really don't see why providing free healthcare to people is any less essential than keeping them safe from criminals... or ensuring them safety from fire... or etc. etc.

Because criminals, fires, dangerous roads, and terrorists are dangerous. Debt isn't.

Obviously whatever you need healthcare for is dangerous, so why should anybody have to pay A LOT OF MONEY to get treated for it?

Because doctors don't work for free, medicine isn't free, and it's not my responsibility if you're sick or get in a car accident.

Police officers work for free now? Irock, everything is still paid for. Only now it's paid for by the government (through taxes) which takes a huge load off everybody.

Police officers are necessary to enforce the laws the government set, and to protect citizens. For this reason, our taxes should pay for law enforcement.

Debt isn't a threat.

[chewey]

I really don't see why providing free healthcare to people is any less essential than keeping them safe from criminals... or ensuring them safety from fire... or etc. etc.

Because criminals, fires, dangerous roads, and terrorists are dangerous. Debt isn't.

Obviously whatever you need healthcare for is dangerous, so why should anybody have to pay A LOT OF MONEY to get treated for it?

Because doctors don't work for free, medicine isn't free, and it's not my responsibility if you're sick or get in a car accident.

Police officers work for free now? Irock, everything is still paid for. Only now it's paid for by the government (through taxes) which takes a huge load off everybody.

Police officers are necessary to enforce the laws the government set, and to protect citizens. For this reason, our taxes should pay for law enforcement.

Debt isn't a threat.

Obviously whatever you need healthcare for is dangerous, so why should anybody have to pay A LOT OF MONEY to get treated for it?

Also, debt is a pretty fucking big threat =/

[firerain]

hokay, so here's how the U.S. exists.

The U.S. owes the largest amount of money in the world. And everything that they're blaming everyone else for, for causing the low financial crisis, borrowing too much, spending money all day, that's how the U.S. exists. The U.S. is paying for the Iraq war with loans from China. The U.S. debt is so large, that during the bailout the national debt clock ran out of room for the extradition, and they had to build a new clock.

The world is locked in debt repayments.

[chewey]

[yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TgqqSHr0wVA&feature=player_embedded[/yt]
Al Franken is the man.

[Irock]

I really don't see why providing free healthcare to people is any less essential than keeping them safe from criminals... or ensuring them safety from fire... or etc. etc.

Because criminals, fires, dangerous roads, and terrorists are dangerous. Debt isn't.

Obviously whatever you need healthcare for is dangerous, so why should anybody have to pay A LOT OF MONEY to get treated for it?

Because doctors don't work for free, medicine isn't free, and it's not my responsibility if you're sick or get in a car accident.

Police officers work for free now? Irock, everything is still paid for. Only now it's paid for by the government (through taxes) which takes a huge load off everybody.

Police officers are necessary to enforce the laws the government set, and to protect citizens. For this reason, our taxes should pay for law enforcement.

Debt isn't a threat.

Obviously whatever you need healthcare for is dangerous, so why should anybody have to pay A LOT OF MONEY to get treated for it?

Also, debt is a pretty fucking big threat =/

Because it's their own responsibilities to pay for their own treatment. It's everyone's responsibilities to pay for transportation because it has an effect on everyone.

Owing money is in no way threatening to anyone.

[tSwitch]

Welcome to America, everyone is equal, but the rich are more equal than the poor.

Owing money is in no way threatening to anyone.

owing money for too long means foreclosure on your house and loss of property which means

• homelessness
• no money for food
• no money for water
• no money for healthcare

not a threat huh? 
Those are your basic needs (shelter, food, water, health) and they're all gone because you owed too much money.

[firerain]

Irock, yes it is. Debt is definitely a threat.

[tSwitch]

Irock's point is most likely that debt as an entity will not kill you, but the repercussions of debt very well can threaten your livelihood and your future very easily.

[chewey]

I really don't see why providing free healthcare to people is any less essential than keeping them safe from criminals... or ensuring them safety from fire... or etc. etc.

Because criminals, fires, dangerous roads, and terrorists are dangerous. Debt isn't.

Obviously whatever you need healthcare for is dangerous, so why should anybody have to pay A LOT OF MONEY to get treated for it?

Because doctors don't work for free, medicine isn't free, and it's not my responsibility if you're sick or get in a car accident.

Police officers work for free now? Irock, everything is still paid for. Only now it's paid for by the government (through taxes) which takes a huge load off everybody.

Police officers are necessary to enforce the laws the government set, and to protect citizens. For this reason, our taxes should pay for law enforcement.

Debt isn't a threat.

Obviously whatever you need healthcare for is dangerous, so why should anybody have to pay A LOT OF MONEY to get treated for it?

Also, debt is a pretty fucking big threat =/

Because it's their own responsibilities to pay for their own treatment. It's everyone's responsibilities to pay for transportation because it has an effect on everyone.

Owing money is in no way threatening to anyone.

Why is it their own responsibility? America is pretty much the only country with this system right now, and clearly it's not working, so why do you defend it so much? Why is it preferred that millions of people just go further and further into debt because of all their expenses? And owing money is a threat to everybody. On the small scale it leads to depression/suicide and a lower quality of life, and on a large scale, it leads to the fucking collapse of the economy.

[EvilM00s]

Owing money is a GIGANTIC threat. Jeez, Irock, if you owe, you can't even get a job in some places. How f'ed up is that?

Get some life experience, man. I've been broke, I've seen how shit works. I'm a parent trying to make a future for my kids. I don't know where you get these ideas from but I'd give it serious thought. I hope you understand things a little better when it's your time to fend for yourself, 'cause the way things are now, it's just you against the world. Do you have ANY idea how hard that is? I'm willing to bet no.