Fate v. Free Will

[Holkeye]

That's exactly what you aren't understanding. The past doesn't exist. The past is just an IDEA. Same with the future. Just because we have a word for these things, doesn't mean they exist.

[djkdjl]

and u missed the point that there are no proofs that the past doesn't exist...

past may be an idea,,but u can define it using time as a dimension.

[Holkeye]

I'd be just as excited about time travel as you, but I just don't see it happening.

Lets get back to the topic at hand.

I heard something good today about fate being something that is also relative, by way of our decisions ultimately leading us down the "path" we are intended to be on.

This is similar to Donnie Darko, if you've seen that, in the theory of the universe "course correcting" itself. Verily, if our supposed free will leads us down the wrong path, the universe will converge to set us back on our correct course. That's pretty interesting, although my beliefs don't have anyone being so special as to the universe bowing to them, but it is interesting none the less.

[djkdjl]

Donnie Darko must be a hyppocrite.

He says that we are free to make our choice,,but if we choose wrong,,we still get back to the correct path.  Haha.

Anyone ever heard of the Divine Calculator first introduced by Laplace?

It states that the location of EVERY ATOM at ANY GIVEN TIME can be determined through a set of calculations.  A pretty freaky notion if correct,,which means that everything has been predetermined.  So much for free will.......

[Leventhan]

It states that the location of EVERY ATOM at ANY GIVEN TIME can be determined through a set of calculations.  A pretty freaky notion if correct,,which means that everything has been predetermined.  So much for free will.......

The only thing that is already pre-determined is the time we have to use our free will. Free will is absolute, for to use however we want and whenever we want.
And also, seeing that the topic shifted to TIME, it's probably a good idea to make another topic from this.

[Kashii]

Alot of good points so far. I agree that we are limited because of environmental and economical constraints. To fate I am not a fan of the word. I think that each person has the ability to make their own personal choices. The choices they make are based on the character that they are and the different checks and balances they have in their life. With each potential decision one has to make in their life starts a web of reactions. Imo with all of the choices in life there are three basic things that will happen: Life spirals down, stays the same or progresses you possitivly. Also I'm pretty religious so this takes me to a /desire/ to "do what I should" or "what ye would have me do" which to others would think that I believe in fate, but I do not. I simply believe that with help I can aspire to walk a down a path that would have the greatest potential for myself as an idivudual and benifit society if and when possible. This being said, I've only asked for "direction" twice and I think "I did the right thing ". Usually my choices are based on, what seems reasonable / rational and within common sense. If I get some crazy ass idea like moving to Alaska to train sled dogs for the iditarod I call people I trust and they tell me I'm a dumbass and it's not brought up again. ;[

"I do whatever my rice krispies tell me to do"

Imo time travel sounds fun but I dont think I'll ever see any results in my life-time.

[Holkeye]

Well said. I, too, believe in following a moral compass. At least, I try to as much as possible. Sometimes it's harder than it sounds though, and then is when I just stop thinking and act. For example, going to Utah to visit Kashii. She's probably pissed off at me because I didn't go, but something was telling me that it wasn't the right time.

[Kashii]

No worries, to that I say, you should have just emailed me and said no :< the anticipation and then the weeks of not hearing from you sucked much~

[Holkeye]

Sorry :<

I still <3 you though.

Back to the topic again, then...

[CartoonFan]

You're wrong though, because technically we are "time travelling into the future" because we are never staying still. Time, like the things in an older post of mine, is an idea.

You should read some books.

Excuse me? Nobody can be "wrong" in a debate. It's arrogant to say I'm wrong. And don't tell me to read books. Take a look at yourself before you show disrespect towards others.

[Leventhan]

Let's.....ge back on track, shall we?

[Holkeye]

You're wrong though, because technically we are "time travelling into the future" because we are never staying still. Time, like the things in an older post of mine, is an idea.

You should read some books.

Excuse me? Nobody can be "wrong" in a debate. It's arrogant to say I'm wrong. And don't tell me to read books. Take a look at yourself before you show disrespect towards others.

When you state a false fact, you are wrong. Debate or not. We can be having a debate about chicken nuggets, and if I say "these are made of beef", its still fucking wrong.

[CartoonFan]

You're wrong though, because technically we are "time travelling into the future" because we are never staying still. Time, like the things in an older post of mine, is an idea.

You should read some books.

Excuse me? Nobody can be "wrong" in a debate. It's arrogant to say I'm wrong. And don't tell me to read books. Take a look at yourself before you show disrespect towards others.

When you state a false fact, you are wrong. Debate or not. We can be having a debate about chicken nuggets, and if I say "these are made of beef", its still fucking wrong.

YOU BASTARD! YOU HAVE NO WAY OF KNOWING IF MY ARGUMENT IS FALSE OR NOT! NEITHER VIEWS ON TIME CAN BE PROVEN!

Backing it up: We are not time traveling into the future constantly, we are creating a new present constantly. The future can never be reached because it does not exist. We are just setting a new now, every moment that passes. All we are doing is making another past, which is now gone. How on earth can you prove that to be wrong?

You can't prove it RIGHT either. The point is, you can't prove it wrong. Just as I can't disprove YOUR beleif, you can't disprove MY beleif. Quit being an arrogant jackass about your beleif.

[Holkeye]

beleif belief

[djkdjl]

lol,,flame the idea,,not the person.

[Holkeye]

Animefan is like another Elegy, but not in the same way. He's like a person that shouldn't be allowed in ED.

[CartoonFan]

Animefan is like another Elegy, but not in the same way. He's like a person that shouldn't be allowed in ED.

Look who's talking. You're the one with a slightly above average amount of arrogance. I was just making my case that you had no right to call my theory false, seeing how there was no way to disprove it. Honestly, I just want peace. If you'd just quit coming back to insult me, I'd quit retaliating. Just give it a rest already, geez.

[haloOfTheSun]

!!!WARNING!!!
A MODERATOR APPROACHES!

Get back to the debate, or I'm going to murder this topic.

[Leventhan]

Okay then.

Here are some questions that can help us get back on track:
1)Is one of the other creates the other?
2)Is time another factor in the equation?
3)Can we change fate?
4)What have we achieved in this topic?

[gonorrhea]

So in a nutshell, I don't believe that any time other than right now currently exists. The past USED to exist, when it was the present. The future WILL exist, when it becomes the present, but only the present exists. Therefore, a destiny has not been set for me, and my life was not predetermined.

Am I the only one of the opinion that this is just a long-winded way of saying "The past exists" and "The future exists"? It's kind of in the definition of the words, and implied in the usages thereof.
Wasn't it decided (after the afore-quoted post) that to be relative, something must exist and be more than an idea? So how is time an idea and relative? Either I'm just having a brainfuck or there's a conflict here. Time IS relative, but it's also more than an idea.

Anyways, the topic of "free will vs. fate" is a very complex question and has been the subject of thousands of discussions and debates and writings and the such by philosophers and would-bes for millennia, so don't expect a satisfactory explanation from an RMRK thread.

Excuse me? Nobody can be "wrong" in a debate. It's arrogant to say I'm wrong. And don't tell me to read books. Take a look at yourself before you show disrespect towards others.

I recall proving people wrong in debates on many occassions, here and elsewhere. It's not arrogance (although I am arrogant, that's a different matter), it's merely that there IS a difference between "true" and "false" (I really do love when people say otherwise, though).
Also, reading is the path to success, didn't y'know? Do read books, it'll do you a lot of good, and it seems that you need to (then, so do I, so don't take that too insultingly). Lastly, he wasn't being disrespectful in the least. So boo on you.
And you misinterpreted his post in other ways, too, it seems, because in your next post you missed the entire point of what he said. It seems you got so angry at someone daring to call you wrong you didn't bother to figure out what he was trying to say, or maybe you're just as dense as I'm starting to think.


I believe in free will, but with a good deal of influence from other sources (people, ideas, experience). I guess that's a bad answer- a one-sentence and vague response to such a hairy and complex question. But until my opinion regarding the issue is better formulated, it's the best I got.