Disrespect within the forum - Blizzards Scripts

Disrespect within the forum. - The topic is now locked, but I wanted to air my thoughts:- http://rmrk.net/index.php/topic,20253.0.html

I am talking about:-

Blizzard's Scripts now appearing here, after he has expressed how he feels about the vast upper chain of the community, and removing his scripts in protest of him feeling wronged.

This is not an argument on why he left and why he removed the scripts, its me trying to understand why people would go against his wishes and rip him off... What your effectively doing is removing his community draw he is building at Chaos and giving people some thing that effectively RMRK has now stolen... I see this as a lack of respect, and it really paints this Forum in a bad light... Any one who effectively downloads and uses those scripts is taking stolen works.

I know most users on here use PK edition of RPG Maker, so effectively they already have a stolen program, and most wont think twice about using Blizzards scripts... But I respect Blizzard, and I have joined his forum as a mark of that respect and I share my resources with his members in hope of being able to use his scripts...

Often I have seen people on here act in a manner that I would call being disrespectful... I often see things on here that really tick me off... And it seems to be happening time and time over.

More often than not the manner that upsets me most doesn't come from nOOb's, spammers or flamers but those that are given extra rights to stop these actions taking place in the first place... If I was a MOD of the script area, I would have deleted that topic...

Blizzard is a Scripting Guru, and a good friend and a great bloke... Please respect him and join his forum if you wish to use his scripts, please don't stoop to the level of a leach !!!

Glad someone else shares my opinion. I would hope anyone who creates resources or tutorials would be pissed as well.

Agreed. They shouldn't be posted against his wishes.

Who changed your title Falcon to n00b Flamer ?

DS

This topic will remain locked until the flamers calm down, at which time it will be unlocked.

It gets me how DS stated locking the topic due to flamers... It seems the topic's writer is at right and us that respect Bliazzard are in the wrong ?

To me that topic is a smack in the face for Blizzard... And a form of flamming in it's self... In fact it's worst than flamming !!!

Haha, DS did that for me. I broke my flaming record and I wanted to change my title accordingly.

Also:

The idea is being discussed, and so far it is practically one sided. Silverline has not made his opinion as of yet, but will most likely agree. RMRK will NOT enforce the personal or moral opinions of the staff, we are not fascist. Because this is only a moral decision, it will be left to the members to make. If YOU do not want to print author's work without their permission then do not, simple.

So, if you don't have their permission, you can do it anyways? Some people make resources to bring people to their site. The only time I would be alright with someone else posting my tutorials or scripts, is if the language is different.

The thing that bugs me is Blizzard's new scripts appearing here... His old stuff he created most for members here or while he was a MOD here, so in a sense they are kind of part of RMRK...

Its like if I left now I would want to take my Resources with me, but wouldn't... I just wouldn't post any new ones...

Kind of in a mark of respect for the forum and community I was part of.

So I am trying to see this from both sides of the fence... Blizzard removed many of his scripts in anger but could be conceived as disrespect and throwing back all that RMRK had given him prior to him leaving.

But at the same time his wishes as the creator of those scripts should be put paramount... After all their his... RMRK has no claim to them if Blizzard wishes them to be solely available at Chaos...

After Blizzard left he didn't get a nice send off and some people continued to dig his hole that little deeper... It seems that hole is still being dug... So much for Blizzard not being missed, his scripts being posted back up are testament to his worth !!

I my Eye's this shows Blizzard's work as being too good to be missed, and its a sad attempt at getting back some of the magic that left when he did.

Falcon
Noticed your siggy has changed:- Currently removing all my crap from this site, not like it matters, some mod's probably just going to repost it.

Leaving out of protest could be hastey... I mean Silverline may not agree yet... The Scripts may get taken down... I have faith in Silverline... !!!

I'm not leaving until I know what Silverline's going to do.

It gets me how DS stated locking the topic due to flamers... It seems the topic's writer is at right and us that respect Bliazzard are in the wrong ?

No, people who want to push their moral views on others are wrong.

So, if you don't have their permission, you can do it anyways?

Legally? Without a patent? Absolutely. Because this is nothing but a moral opinion and not a legal one, we will not stop people from posting other's scripts. How many keygens are available in the trading forum? How many things can you steal from there? That is far less moral then reproducing an RM script without permission.

If the staff was deleting these scripts, then you would have something to complain about, because we would be becoming an oppressive site.

It is not our job, nor our opinion that it is correct to enforce our moral views upon you.

Falcon
Good call... But even if he does decide to leave them up... Is it worth you leaving ?

I wont be leaving... I think if any thing I would use this forum to help make members aware of other forums like Chaos and RMrevoulution... Every Resource I make I will PM the requester links to those sites and my own with the completed request.

That way when they become more active and see the sort of things that some time go on here they have a choice of other forums that may suite them more... I am seeing more members becoming active at other forums, for the simple reason this forum is getting a pretty Harsh place.

I kind of see this latest event as being almost a sick joke... or a form of ridicule against Blizzard... It's as I say a mark of disrespect... If RMRK mods and admin are going to abide by this then my respect for them is going out of the window... Doesn't mean I am jumping out of it with my mark of respect...

Silverline kind of told me not to feed the trolls... leaving would be doing so...

DS
Do you know who posted Blizzards Scripts ?

Do you know who posted Blizzards Scripts ?

Numerous people have access the the Anon account, besides, it was posted in that account for a reason.

As said, this has nothing to do with offending Blizzard, it has to do with this site not turning to fascism.

Absolutly, I'm not going to put up with this bullshit!

We all know it was a mod, and I'm betting it was either DS or Arrow-1.

Let me rephrase that, knowing how they acted on IRC, I KNOW one of them posted it.

You mean 'to the anon'?

Do you know who posted Blizzards Scripts ?

Numerous people have access the the Anon account, besides, it was posted in that account for a reason.

As said, this has nothing to do with offending Blizzard, it has to do with this site not turning to fascism.

But it was right for them to be posted? It's right for Blizzard's hard work to be posted in a place he specifically made sure they were stripped from?

Absolutly, I'm not going to put up with this bullshit!

We all know it was a mod, and I'm betting it was either DS or Arrow-1.

Let me rephrase that, knowing how they acted on IRC, I KNOW one of them posted it.

You would rather be in a site that oppresses it's members? You have a biased view towards Blizzard, that is the only reason you care. You want those scripts removed because they are HIS scripts, not because they simply have been reproduced without the authors consent. Would you really be saying the same thing if this was some random persons scripts you didn't know..?

I'm assuming no, meaning you only want THESE scripts taken down because you know the person, not because of any moral high-ground.

But it was right for them to be posted? It's right for Blizzard's hard work to be posted in a place he specifically made sure they were stripped from?

Again, we are not here to teach you a lesson in morality, if it's legal, and it is, then it's not our job to make peoples choices for them.

Are you kidding? You take go ahead and take a look in the tutorial database, I remember lominslo posted one  of marcus' mapping tutorials, I remeber I posted some stuff about that.

And I'd much rather be the member of a facist forum that forces their beliefs on others than a forum than a forum that ignores the opinions of people! Of course, to me, those are the same thing.

EDIT: Here you go bitch.
http://rmrk.net/index.php/topic,9689.0.html

It is not our job, nor our opinion that it is correct to enforce our moral views upon you.

It is your job to enforce the rules though. Anonymous is a dupe account. Dupe accounts are against the rules. At the very least, that account should be banned. I do understand that you do not have that power yourself as a regular mod, but I felt that I should mention it for anyone who does have that power. On that note, who the hell is that fucking coward? Hiding behind his dupe account... What a fucking asshole.

Also, I think that if anyone were to request that his submissions be taken off the site, I think you should do it as a courtesy to the creator. And I think that at ther very least, even if you did not remove the content, you would at least edit the posts to give Blizzard the credit and not 'My Sticky Fingers'. It would be the same as anyone taking any other resources from the site (Roph's music; Halo's music; Arrow-1's music; LOS's sprites, etc...) and posting them and not giving credit to the creator.

Aside from which, it is simply petty and spiteful to leave the scripts up. It reflects very poorly on the site. I would like to believe that Roph will take them down, if not as an act of respect to Blizzard personally, then at least as an artist himself, who would like to retain creative control over his own work.

DS

No, people who want to push their moral views on others are wrong.

So how do your Morals sit with this action...?

It's mainly down to why Blizzard left... are you backing the fact his work is reposted as you feel some guilt for his work leaving as he did ?

I don't think Moral's come into play in this case... It's like me getting Silverlines tunes, burning them on CD and selling them as my own... It's wrong.

It's wrong to do this to an ex-member on here...

I see what your saying about Keygens and so on... but that's from major companies, not people we know personally... Its one thing to steel from a stranger but a friend is too close to home... If some one done this to you or Silver I would be on my high horse about that !!... (And I don't much like you DS, from recent and past events, we very different minded people... but I would still defend you and back you, as your a community member).

As said, this has nothing to do with offending Blizzard, it has to do with this site not turning to fascism.

I don't see how this relates to RMRK posting work only meant for distribution within games or on sites of Blizzards choice...?

In the words of Flacon:- I'm not going to put up with this bullshit!

Your trying to back these actions by relating not doing it with being Fascist, is a complete joke... I am supprised you would even try.

You would rather be in a site that oppresses it's members? You have a biased view towards Blizzard, that is the only reason you care. You want those scripts removed because they are HIS scripts, not because they simply have been reproduced without the authors consent. Would you really be saying the same thing if this was some random persons scripts you didn't know..?

I'm assuming no, meaning you only want THESE scripts taken down because you know the person, not because of any moral high-ground.

Again BULLSHIT... Why not post links to his site, that's what most people do here, they give credit when credit is due to fellow RPG makers... Those posts should be altered... each should show the Script title and a brief description of the script then a link given to Chaos... If RMRK is to benefit Chaos should to... Thats all I think that majority of us want to see happen...

Just don't physically post up his work...!!!

I mean all those links, link to RMRK... Not Chaos...

Hmm... I don't know where I stand in this argument. XD I see both sides here. All the scripts were meant to be public and crap so I see why you would want that. But then, there's just moral issues and Chaosproject wouldn't attract as many members. I say we just link directly to a topic in Chaosproject with that exact same information and crap.

mastermoo420
Yep... I think that would be acceptable...  The members here will still get the same info, but from the creators site... Then there would be no hostility... What's happening now I think is a whole new level of wrong !!!... But its easy to put right... But hasn't... why not...?

DS... Are you secretly liking this confrontation...?

Are your own personal feelings or your Morals effecting this topic slightly...?

Would you be happy to alter the topic linking to Chaos ?

Isn't being Fascist not listening to the people... and making choices for them and abusing power ?

Los, great plea to emotions, but yeah, not really working. My view? I have none, I'm being nothing but a mod in this situation and not allowing how I feel about this situation to affect my judgment, no I do not feel any amount of guilt about Blizzard leaving, his choice.

As to the friends/faceless corporations: wow, so you're justifying stealing to yourself? What if Blizzard's scripting skills got him his own company, that became successful and big, would it be ok to steal from him then?

Why not post links to his site

We're not here to advertise other peoples sites (even though we do =o).

You're all saying you want the staff to judge all 'moral' type situations. Do you have any idea how corrupted my sense of morality is? Thankfully I know how to keep an outsiders perspective, and I don't make moral judgment calls, if I did, perhaps I would be locking this thread?

If you want me to delete these scripts because of morality, then what's to stop the mods from doing absolutely anything in the name of 'morality'? The trading section would be gone, full of thieves. Spam section would go too, to much sex and filth. What about swearing? I think we would start deleting every post that has 'shit' in it.

Freedom is a two way street, you all live in democracies, you should be aware of that. I will say it again: we are not here to enforce our personal, moral views on anyone. You don't like your freedom because bad people can do bad things? Here: hbgames.org, your oppressive dream.

Yeah, I'm convinced you posted the scripts. You always seem to be the one who's replying back to us.

DS
You see that's what I like about you... you always have a pretty good answer to most things. But I don't see why you always try and take emotions out of the equation... sometimes you scare me on just how hollow you seem to be LOL.

I suppose the Silverline music ripping example wasn't enough for you...

And I don't really know how to get you to see this from my own and others perspective... your fairly set in your ways and know your own mind really well, and I am sure to you all this has balance and justification else you would have acted.

I suppose the best thing I can do is re-point out this:-

After Blizzard left he didn't get a nice send off and some people continued to dig his hole that little deeper... It seems that hole is still being dug... So much for Blizzard not being missed, his scripts being posted back up are testament to his worth !!

In my Eye's this shows Blizzard's work as being too good to be missed, and its a sad attempt at getting back some of the magic that left when he did.

Kind of sad really when I have to make a plea to emotions from people from a democratic country...

If Blizzard's scripting skills do get him his own company he has earned that... I have no need to steel from him, I would do as most would and go to his site and download or ask him for permission to use his scripts.

Yeah, I'm convinced you posted the scripts. You always seem to be the one who's replying back to us.

Great, glad you made a choice. Now you can use those morals of yours to judge, trial and sentence me then, eh?

After Blizzard left he didn't get a nice send off and some people continued to dig his hole that little deeper... It seems that hole is still being dug... So much for Blizzard not being missed, his scripts being posted back up are testament to his worth !!

I my Eye's this shows Blizzard's work as being too good to be missed, and its a sad attempt at getting back some of the magic that left when he did.

Excellent, I'm glad Blizzard is being appreciated for his fine scripting skills. It looks like they are that useful, I know nothing about scripting, but I know he was very good =o

DS - You said this:-

it was posted in that account for a reason.

What do you know that we don't ?...
(About this topic...)

I know nothing about scripting

Scripting = Programming

It would be like some one posting up the source code for this forum !!... If that ever happend I would be acting like this in defence for that !!

I'm sure she knows who posted them. I'm not one to make assumptions, but she DID post in that thread, no big deal, unless you consider she never posts in the RPG Maker forums.