Christian Topic Be warned

Is that so DS? Amazing. It's a shame someone hasn't idolized you yet with such divine knowledge.

They have, look at my signature.

Seriously... how much bullshit can you continue to say without people noticing.

When I start speaking bullshit, perhaps we'll find out. =o

Maybe you should link to the evidence showing me to be incorrect? Or even better, how about you try adding something to a debate once in awhile? You truly do close to nothing in this section...

I assure you that more then the majority of Christians haven't read through the whole bible, in fact, I feel that 1% is a generous estimate.  I recommend you get off your ass and link some reliable sources to disprove before getting on the "attack DS" train as you so often do. Quite frankly, what the fuck would you know?

Do you even have your own viewpoint, or do you just instantly agree with the side I'm not on? Really that's all I've seen from you, a boy who can't do much more then say "NO UR WRONG" or blindly agree with someone else's point without understanding the situation.   

If you can't handle yourself properly in a debate, then I would assume this isn't the best place for you.

My house mate is a Catholic, and he hasn't read any religious books of any kind... But he still rears up and defends it as truth...

I don't know many people who are hardend Religous nuts...

But when ever I go into town and get approached by the Jesus army it always seems to be ex-drug addicts, Homeless, ex-crimanals etc... that form the ranks of those that found God.

I think these people are more influential, it was no doubt them falling into the wrong crowd that made them as they are before they found God... Just swapping one gang for another.

The other day on my Lunch I put DS's theory to the test... I started making up stuff that isn't in the Bible, I didn't get corrected once, and some of it was just plain stupid...

For example "Chapter 8 verse 8, The Sheep who's fleece was made of Gold, granted Jesus's first and secound deciples emortallity"... And then I went on to say "so do you think they still walk the Earth today ?"... They answered "With out a doubt"... (Or some thing as near as darn it to that)... I said "but the Bible does n't mention their names, who where they ?"... You should have seen their faces...LOL

I think DS is right... May be not to the scale she proclaims (I have no proof, so DS could be correct, and I haven't seen any of the religous Nuts on here respond yet, may be they are reading the bible right now...LOL), but close enough is good enough for me...LOL

Try it, it's great fun...

Maybe you should link to the evidence showing me to be incorrect?

Or even better, how about you say something that actually requires me to give evidence? What you said pointed out that you hadn't even met a Christian, let alone heard of the bible...

I recommend you get off your ass and link some reliable sources to disprove before getting on the "attack DS" train as you so often do. Quite frankly, what the fuck would you know?

Link? You didn't link at all and yet you claimed that 99% of Christians haven't read the bible. Me simply disagreeing does not say straight out my view and so you're not sure of why I disagree (I have told you before though).  If there is a train (which wouldn't surprise me with such a friendly signature) I'm not one of the carriages.

Do you even have your own viewpoint, or do you just instantly agree with the side I'm not on? Really that's all I've seen from you, a boy who can't do much more then say "NO UR WRONG" or blindly agree with someone else's point without understanding the situation.   

I have a viewpoint. And I've noticed you choose to see what you want to see DS, which makes you similar to how you view people that are religious.

And "not understanding the situation" from you means: "disagreeing with me" right? Well, yes. It's not often we actually agree. I don't see anything wrong with that. If you can't handle yourself properly in a debate, then I would assume this isn't the best place for you. This is of course if you mean "handle yourself" as in, "have respect for other peoples opinions".

If you look back this topic was meant to be about Heaven / Hell it was thrown off way before I posted.

I think the only reason it has been thrown off track is we have been told to use the Bible as our only source of reference, yet the Bible has gone under many changes, I mean in the start God was both good and evil...

Satan only really came about in the New Testament...

Hell

God was the person who cast you to hell...

Luke 12:5 records Jesus speaking about God's Judgment "But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear, Fear Him, which after He hath killed hath Power to cast into Hell, yea, I say unto you, Fear Him."

and then again in Paul's letter:-

"The Lord Jesus shall be revealed from Heaven with His mighty angels, In flaming fire taking Vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the Gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the Presence of the Lord, and from the Glory of his Power" (2 Thessalonians 1:7-9)

Descriptions of Hell found in the Bible are quite vague. The books of Matthew, Mark, and Jude tell of a place of fire, while the books of Luke and Revelation report it as an abyss... So you see my confussion, different passages of text give a very different view.

Some Christian devinations of the Bible just state Hell as being a life without God or isolation like pergatory:-

As opposed to the concept of Purgatory, damnation to Hell is considered final and irreversible. However, the foundation of the Christian faith is that it is the death of Jesus Christ, and acceptance of his love for us, that allows repentant sinners to avoid the torments of Hell and enjoy eternity with God. Various interpretations of the torments of Hell exist, ranging from fiery pits of wailing sinners to lonely isolation from God's presence.

Heaven

Heaven has just as much confussion, it changed many a time in scripture From the 16th to the late 19th century depending on the difference's between the Roman Catholic view, the Orthodox view, the Coptic view, the Jacobite view, the Abyssinian view and Protestant views...

All of these can't be correct...

The Bible as a whole

For those reason's above and I have said time and time again, the Bible has been altered way to much for us to use it to govern or hold close to religious scripture...  And for us to only use Christinaity to say if Heaven or Hell exsists is a little hard, when the Bible is so Vauge ?

(Most of the above I used Wikki quotes and passages, I am not good at putting into words every thing I have read or researched... But I have done the cutting and pasting to show my train of thaught)

ataraxy2 & DS

Both of you are good debator's... you often back up yor claims with hard proof...



33% of the world is Christian...

Many of those live in area's the Bible is not readily avialable:-



So DS's Claim to 1% having read it could be generous as she states... Most people I know use the Bible more as reference rather than a read cover from cover... and many I know disregard much of it... If you look at the above map, 1% is tiny so I can see why ataraxy2 doubts your claim... But at the same time the only people I know to read the full scripture would be priests and those terminally ill, or slightly mental.

I don't see how we can have a Debate on Heaven and Hell based on writtings and passages of Christian faith with it being so Vauge without using our own opinion's and idea's.

Either way both of you stop bitching...LOL

ID is for opinion's and debate, without no opposing side there would be no debate, you both need each other...LOL

What the fuck are you going on about ataraxy..?

Or even better, how about you say something that actually requires me to give evidence? What you said pointed out that you hadn't even met a Christian, let alone heard of the bible...

When I say Christian I'm not referring to the strict priest type, I refer to all who claim to be of that faith, and believe the Christian god to be real, whether they follow the rules or not.

If you wish to proclaim I'm wrong, then I suggest being able to back your statement. You said I was incorrect, show it!

Link? You didn't link at all and yet you claimed that 99% of Christians haven't read the bible.

I'm going by personal experience and knowledge, how many Christians do you know that have read through the Christian bible? I'm not talking about a chapter, or blindly skimming a verse or two at church (if they even go), I'm talking about actually reading it, all of it.

You have two other people showing evidence backing me and my claim, you on the other hand have given nothing to support your version. Put up or shut up, simple.

And I've noticed you choose to see what you want to see DS, which makes you similar to how you view people that are religious.

That my friend is called "projection".

And "not understanding the situation" from you means: "disagreeing with me" right?

Not at all, there are many, many ideas in which me and Los are at complete opposites, yet I still respect him greatly. He has a clue as to the real world, despite us not sharing the same opinion on how it works I still respect him for it. Me not respecting you has nothing to do with you not agreeing with my opinions...

If you can't handle yourself properly in a debate, then I would assume this isn't the best place for you. This is of course if you mean "handle yourself" as in, "have respect for other peoples opinions".

No, by handle yourself, I mean have some clue as to how a debate works.

1) If your going to refute people, show the evidence for it. Your word around here means nothing ataraxy, mine has credit due to past debates. I've earned respect.

2) Don't get personal, which you seem to do in every second post. Instead of personally attacking me with "Seriously... how much bullshit can you continue to say without people noticing" try showing me wrong using real evidence and showings. That was one of the weakest posts I've seen in here.

3) Respect of opinions has nothing to do with debating. Respect of the person does.

4) What we're having right now isn't a debate, it's a pathetic, personal squabble. If you decide to reply to this, it either should be on topic or contain some real evidence to my statement being wrong. If you can't reply without it being personal, then don't, PM me the reply if you must but it stops here. If you want to debate me that's fine, but what your doing is not debating, it's pathetic.   

DS...

I have put a real good post right above yours... Do you have any thing on my post ?

I think the only reason it has been thrown off track is we have been told to use the Bible as our only source of reference, yet the Bible has gone under many changes, I mean in the start God was both good and evil...

Satan only really came about in the New Testament...

I feel your correct, if you only are allowed the dogmatic view of the bible, then there is nothing to debate. If you want a descusion then an open mind about the bible and Christianity should be there. If you feel the bible is truth with no disputing it, then you have nothing to debate as you've made up your mind.

As to the god of the old testament V new. LOL, if you actually read it, yes, they are basically separate entities, which is truly quite fascinating... Did god change his mind half way through..? 

Hell

God was the person who cast you to hell...

Luke 12:5 records Jesus speaking about God's Judgment "But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear, Fear Him, which after He hath killed hath Power to cast into Hell, yea, I say unto you, Fear Him."

and then again in Paul's letter:-

"The Lord Jesus shall be revealed from Heaven with His mighty angels, In flaming fire taking Vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the Gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the Presence of the Lord, and from the Glory of his Power" (2 Thessalonians 1:7-9)

Again, I agree. According to the bible, and what you can tell using common sense, who sends you to hell is Yahweh itself. It seems a little unfair to me, god sends you to hell despite making you in a certain fashion and knowing you where going there before you where created! Quite frankly I feel Yahweh is directly responsible for a person going to hell, unrightly so.

Descriptions of Hell found in the Bible are quite vague. The books of Matthew, Mark, and Jude tell of a place of fire, while the books of Luke and Revelation report it as an abyss... So you see my confussion, different passages of text give a very different view.

Some Christian devinations of the Bible just state Hell as being a life without God or isolation like pergatory:-

As opposed to the concept of Purgatory, damnation to Hell is considered final and irreversible. However, the foundation of the Christian faith is that it is the death of Jesus Christ, and acceptance of his love for us, that allows repentant sinners to avoid the torments of Hell and enjoy eternity with God. Various interpretations of the torments of Hell exist, ranging from fiery pits of wailing sinners to lonely isolation from God's presence.

I think one of the biggest debates would be the physical hell Vs. the metaphorical hell. My grandfather (heavily Christian and learned) felt that rather then actual punishment and torture, hell would be more of an emotion "burning" as in knowing you've wronged god and yourself etc... Which I always thought would be a more reasonable, logical view. Why would a god physically torture a person when it knew before it created the person that it would sin..?

Heaven

Heaven has just as much confussion, it changed many a time in scripture From the 16th to the late 19th century depending on the difference's between the Roman Catholic view, the Orthodox view, the Coptic view, the Jacobite view, the Abyssinian view and Protestant views...

All of these can't be correct...

The Bible as a whole

For those reason's above and I have said time and time again, the Bible has been altered way to much for us to use it to govern or hold close to religious scripture...  And for us to only use Christinaity to say if Heaven or Hell exsists is a little hard, when the Bible is so Vauge ?

(Most of the above I used Wikki quotes and passages, I am not good at putting into words every thing I have read or researched... But I have done the cutting and pasting to show my train of thaught)

I would again have to agree. I feel that the possibility of a god/afterlife (although minute) is there. What this means however does not infer I think there is a possibility of the Christian version being correct (or Muslim, Buddhist, Jewish etc...). There is no chance that the Christian account is correct, I give the idea that I myself do not exist more plausibility then that of a personal god.

If god exists, it would be an impersonal, non-interfering being, not the petty gods we know of today, or yesterday. 

That like, makes me ashamed of my species

I'm in "other" 

Saucy, even after proving ataraxy wrong, he'll keep attacking you, because by making him look bad you hurt his feelings or something.

I think it's almost time (yet again thanks to ataraxy) to split the topic up into a "ZOMG I RUIN TOPICS: Posted by ataraxy2" thread.

For those reason's above and I have said time and time again, the Bible has been altered way to much for us to use it to govern or hold close to religious scripture...  And for us to only use Christinaity to say if Heaven or Hell exsists is a little hard, when the Bible is so Vauge ?

I've said the same thing several times here, that the Bible has been altered, mostly due to so many translations, but the religious people here refuse to believe that; that every time the Bible is retranslated, it stays 100% true to the version before that, and that the translator doesn't use their own interpretations to write it.

I don't see why we have to have all these variations of one thing.
Why can't we just call it Christianity.
Not Catholic, lutheran, protestant, mormon, and muslim.
They all have one god, they happen in the same area, and we just don't need that many.

She only said the entire bible....read everything before posting, heck read it twice if you have to.

Link? You didn't link at all and yet you claimed that 99% of Christians haven't read the bible. Me simply disagreeing does not say straight out my view and so you're not sure of why I disagree (I have told you before though).  If there is a train (which wouldn't surprise me with such a friendly signature) I'm not one of the carriages.

Why can't we just call it Christianity.
Not Catholic, lutheran, protestant, mormon, and muslim.

Chistianity it's self is at conflict from scripture to scripture defferent people have made it read how they wish it too, due to their back grounds and moral up-bringing...

All of these versions can't be correct... So Christianity has lost track of what's true to the first scripture...

And who's to say Jesus would have wrote it in the same context as his followers...

For example:- If my best mates wrote a book on me or any of you on here did, how much of it would be true me, and how correct will my mind be to your interpritation ?...

That's all the Bible is, it's short stories written by people who followed Jesus about... And keep in mind some of these people used to be blind until Jesus "Cured them"...LOL

Any time soon, you watch the New new Testement (or the New Testement Strikes back) will get released and Jesus will have a Gay mate, and all Gay people in the Bibles eyes will be as natural as thy neighbour...LOL

I don't see why we have to have all these variations of one thing.
Why can't we just call it Christianity.
Not Catholic, lutheran, protestant, mormon, and muslim.
They all have one god, they happen in the same area, and we just don't need that many.

lol maybe if they were the same religion. and first i'd rather try and re-branch the split off's of each religion before even trying to make them combined.

Saucy, even after proving ataraxy wrong, he'll keep attacking you, because by making him look bad you hurt his feelings or something.

I think it's almost time (yet again thanks to ataraxy) to split the topic up into a "ZOMG I RUIN TOPICS: Posted by ataraxy2" thread.

What? I simply disagreed with her. You should learn to get over that thing you started with me.

When I say Christian I'm not referring to the strict priest type, I refer to all who claim to be of that faith, and believe the Christian god to be real, whether they follow the rules or not.

That's what I made the original post thinking you were referring to.

You said you were correct, yet you didn't show it. I'm going by personal experience and knowledge myself, which is pretty much an unreliable thing to say in a debate anyway so me actually saying that a few posts back probably wouldn't change your understanding of where I'm coming from.

How many Christians do you know that have read through the Christian bible? I'm not talking about a chapter, or blindly skimming a verse or two at church (if they even go), I'm talking about actually reading it, all of it.

When I went to Church I knew for sure at least half (if not more) actually had read the bible, some many times - the reason it was around half was because many came off the streets looking for help. And some were just plain gullible.

That my friend is called "projection".

Me not respecting you has nothing to do with you not agreeing with my opinions...

I'm all ears.

Your word around here means nothing ataraxy, mine has credit due to past debates. I've earned respect.

Don't get personal, which you seem to do in every second post. Instead of personally attacking me with "Seriously... how much bullshit can you continue to say without people noticing" try showing me wrong using real evidence and showings. That was one of the weakest posts I've seen in here.

There were many ways I could have worded that post. Yet I chose to word it as poorly as the post I was responding to.

I don't really care how much my word around here means, I'm just speaking my mind on a few things.

And I'm not getting personal. Is that seriously how I'm coming across or have you joined the "attack ataraxy" train, which you seem to always do?

Respect of opinions has nothing to do with debating. Respect of the person does.

Respect of the person does not. Respect of opinions does, that doesn't mean agreeing DS.

What we're having right now isn't a debate, it's a pathetic, personal squabble. If you want to debate me that's fine, but what your doing is not debating, it's pathetic.   

Well it isn't personal squabble. =/

EDIT: I'll reply to you in a moment LOS. School.

It's mid night here in England...

Me Putting my nose in

Spoiler for:

I wish this he said this, she said that, play ground shite would stop... To be honest I don't give a rats arse and I doubt any body esle does on who wins this little tiff... I just hope one of you is BIG enough to to say Sorry and make a peace cuz if you don't this is going to keep happening... And really, if you have got issues PM each other rather than bicker in a decent topic...

Back on topic...

I think I raised some good points just here:-

All of these versions can't be correct... So Christianity has lost track of what's true to the first scripture...

And who's to say Jesus would have wrote it in the same context as his followers...

For example:- If my best mates wrote a book on me or any of you on here did, how much of it would be true me, and how correct will my mind be to your interpritation ?...

That's all the Bible is, it's short stories written by people who followed Jesus about... And keep in mind some of these people used to be blind until Jesus "Cured them"...LOL

Any time soon, you watch the New new Testement (or the New Testement Strikes back) will get released and Jesus will have a Gay mate, and all Gay people in the Bibles eyes will be as natural as thy neighbour...LOL

I really would like to hear back from a Christian... it's not a Sunday... Where have they all gone ??

All of these versions can't be correct... So Christianity has lost track of what's true to the first scripture...

Exactly. Mistranslation can occur with many things, if the bible is as old as it is claimed to be, and with so many languages translations the translators need to actually be 100% accurate. Just one wrong word would change the way Christians believed in things?

That's all the Bible is, it's short stories written by people who followed Jesus about...

It's more than that.

Any time soon, you watch the New new Testement (or the New Testement Strikes back) will get released and Jesus will have a Gay mate, and all Gay people in the Bibles eyes will be as natural as thy neighbour...LOL

That'd actually be quite funny. xD

It's more than that.

Yep, it makes a great door stop.

I really would like to hear back from a Christian... it's not a Sunday... Where have they all gone ??

1.) I am really sorry cobragamer... Look at it this way, around the time the bible was written they still burned witches at the stake... They typed Crocdiles as dragons, squids as monsters, and the world was flat... Things change, but the bible has not... it's a relic, a relic that people can interp as they see fit... Rather than reading it with an open heart, read it with an open mind.
----
2.)And when you mention heaven and hell in a Christian scheeme of things, the reason's for going to either seem a little wishy washy... for example, being Gay, you go to Hell and burn, yet preist now join people who are Gay in marriage... Errrr... So does the priest Burn...?
 And if the priest is wrong and he does God's work, is the Church and God wrong... and the Bible... The Bible states being Gay is wrong, but if it's now deemed right, is the Bible wrong... and if the Bible is wrong then does that mean there is no Hell or Heaven...?

In a Biblical sense I am past caring... And I think many modern day people are too.

1.) The Bible was written WAY before that. :/ The old testament itself was written 1000's of years before that.

2.) The Bible is unchanging. God is unchanging. The only thing changing is our sense of right and wrong. Or what we percieve is okay. A couple of years ago being gay (no offense intended to any who are homo/bi-sexuals on these forums) was embarasing and wasn't something you'd proclaim. You knew it was wrong. Also, if God says something is wrong and we say it's not, it doesn't mean God is wrong, it means WE are wrong.


[/end only post I'm making in this topic]

2.) The Bible is unchanging. God is unchanging. The only thing changing is our sense of right and wrong. Or what we percieve is okay. A couple of years ago being gay (no offense intended to any who are homo/bi-sexuals on these forums) was embarasing and wasn't something you'd proclaim. You knew it was wrong. Also, if God says something is wrong and we say it's not, it doesn't mean God is wrong, it means WE are wrong.


[/end only post I'm making in this topic]

I haven't read the bible beside the first two books and bits and pieces of other parts. But I must say that's a good strong point.

LOL...Tsunokiette

The Bible is unchanging

...WTF... It has more drafts than my local pub !!!... You have Lukes version, the Old testiment, the New testiment... It's like Dragon Ball Z... The Jap version, the Comic Version and then Toonarmi's version, bits taken, bits added (Bad translation)... But the Bible is more fictional than DBZ.

God is unchanging

- Again... WTF... First God was both good and Evil... now the Bible has written in the Devil, God's become a bundle of joy...

And the fact Hell has been written as being a Void, a Pit, A Lake of Sulfer, A burning inferno, pergatory and seclution from God, depending what version you read... Kind of sounds like a bunch of opinions to me, not much better than my own.

Have you even read the Bible ?... If so what version do you thinks correct... and why ?

A couple of years ago being gay was embarasing and wasn't something you'd proclaim

God would have created them Gay... So how wrong/embarasing can it be...? If any should be exceptant it should be the church...

Back on Topic

Hell in a biblical sense has changed from edition to edition... I doubt if there is a Hell like that described in any of these editions... Same goes for heaven... I mean for a start off know-body knows for sure, and the Bibles attempt at descibing them lacks so much... I mean if Jesus was Gods Son, and he did rise from the dead, surely there would be a whole chapter on what his farther said on to him after his exercution ?... But there's hardly any scripture relating to how heaven looks or is... I mean for a book promotting being good and getting into heaen, there's not all that much about heaven written in it.

My opinion
I think we contain good and bad energy (Negative and positive) Hence Aura's and stuff... OK... And when we die, if we are mainly made of a Negative energy may be our soul is pushed away by the positive force, and your soul remains on Earth (Hence sighings of Ghosts)... Until your sould becomes more positive (Exceptant of death) (Like that in the Muslim Faith)... After that then may be you do join the positive stream of energy, in a blinding light of glory that could be called heaven (like that in the Bible and most near death experineces)... But that's just my idea... More conseviable than that in the bible...?

I believe that hell isn't eternal; no one deserves to be suffering forever. I think heaven is more like the purgatory, in that you stay there only for a limited amount of time, until you recognize that you have done wrong and truly regret your actions.
In my opinion, people should live with love and tolerance, instead of being  hardcore followers of a religion. If you live with those two things, then you are following God, even if you don't believe in him. People shouldn't take seriously the bible cause it was written in different times when religion was used for political purposes.

As for what I believe...

There is creation. Somehow, out of the void of space, matter came into existance... And the what, or who, did that is God. God is the creator. The end. I don't believe he has an influence in our everyday life directly. Indirectly, sure. People do all kinds of things in his name, for him, and such.

Somewhere, God continues to create... That's why he exists. He creates, for eternity. An what he creates has enough self-sufficiency to work without direct influence. Otherwise, it dies.


In a nutshell: I am 100% sure that God exists. Maybe he's the God you know, maybe not. I also believe he doesn't have direct control over things that go on. He lets things be. I also believe that he is not done creating, and that we are not his only creations.

That's why he exists. He creates, for eternity.

God creates creatures that die...?

Why...?

He doesn't die... He is eternal as you claim... Why has he chosen to create life knowing it will die ?

Does that in actual fact make God Evil...?

There is no God... No one entity creating every thing... It's common sense... Life creates life, basic Chaos theory, life finds away.

  Ok, don't kill me guys, but I'm Atheist and I just want to put in my two bits as well.

     Yes, I don't agree with religions on many levels, so I do not think that there is a heaven and hell. My thought is that they were ideas made to help people, as in all religions. People believe that if they do good then they go to a rewarding place and if they do bad then they get punished. People will then try to be the best that they can be, even if they know that they are going to die tomorrow. Thus, people are trying to be good and the world is a better place.
     Don't hate me for saying this, but I think that religions were created to keep people going on in life. Religions give people a reason to live on, because even if they are an ex-convict they can still be a part of something and still be rewarded. It helps families get over a lost one and gives people a sense of control over their lives (It's not your fault, god's doing it. You're daughters dying of a terrible disease? You don't have to just sit by and watch, you can pray.) Of course, I don't believe that god/allah/ect exists or that prayer helps in impossible situations, but if it helps other people to get through the day then I don't mind.

God creates creatures that die...?

Why...?

   I think that religions typically agree that their god eventually wants you to join her in heaven, so god makes people die so they can be reunited with her.

    I generally agree with what Shadows and Saucy have been saying. Ataraxy, you give me the slight impression that you are an ignorant christian. Aren't you supposed to accept people and all that? I went to church a little bit when I was little, and that was the impression that I got (I didn't believe in it then, either, but my experience helped me to respect religions.) I guess my "holy book" is the dictionary, because it can be changed and it is an efficient tool for logic.

     Religion - a set of beliefs
     Beliefs -    confidence in the truth or existence of something not immediately susceptible to rigorous proof, to suppose, think
     Opinion - a belief based on grounds insufficient to prove certianty

     There you have it: religion=beliefs=something you have confidence in despite lack of proof. Therefore, religions are opinionated, and everything everyone has said in this thread is correct because it is their opinion, aka your religion. Your religion is your opinion on life. I'm just stating mine.


Also, check out this church:
   http://www.venganza.org/

According to my logic, they are correct as well, because their church is their opinion, and an opinion is never incorrect (except in English class.) Hooray for Pastafarianism.