I'm muslim so we have different beliefs in hell. I believe hell ISN'T a perminate place for your soul, instead it'a a "hospital" for your soul where it is cleansed of sins before going to heaven.
Well actually I just got some clarifcation on this issue and to my knowledge, I do believe that eventually all muslims go to heaven.
Well actually I just got some clarifcation on this issue and to my knowledge, I do believe that eventually all muslims go to heaven.
also if there was the idea that if you kill 100 you get to be a demon...wouldnt that be a push for people to kill
Quotealso if there was the idea that if you kill 100 you get to be a demon...wouldnt that be a push for people to kill
Yeah, if you want to join the Djjin's in the alternative world I guess... Think of Spawn the comic... that kind of follows suite...LOL
I don't consider Pure Christian topic's as Intelligent, to void out other religion's in my opinion is closing off your mind and narrowing the debate... I Hope my views and others from different religious backgrounds are still welcome.
You don't think that being Christian is intelligent, but you believe that if you kill 100 people, you'll become a demon? I think both ideas are equally insane
Jinn in pre-Islamic Era
For the ancient Semites, jinn were spirits of vanished ancient peoples who acted during the night and disappeared with the first light of dawn; they could make themselves invisible or change shape into animals at will; these spirits were commonly believed to be responsible for diseases and for the manias of some lunatics. Types of jinn include the ghul ("night shade", which can change shape), the sila (which cannot change shape), the afrit [ai'f??t], and "marid" [m?'??d]. From information in The Arabian Nights, marid seem to be the strongest form of jinn, followed by afrit, and then the rest of the jinn.
Arabs believed that the jinn were spirits of fire, although sometimes they associated them with succubi (demons in the forms of beautiful women). The feminine form of jinn is "jinniyah" or "jinneyeh". Jinns can posess people, by entering their body. These posessed people need to be seen by a (maulvi in urdu) an islamic scholar. The scholars read arabic chants and blow on the person affected.
You respect life and do no wrong:- The becoming of a gardian angle
Mormons then stopped. They're kind of odd. They believe they can have multiple wives and it's fine. They have a different bible which, when compared to old te
Also Silver is right about the bible~
Alright, I'm gonna come in state my opinion and leave.
1. Heaven is real and so is Hell
2. I'm Christian, so I believe the main thing that gets you to Heaven or Hell is wether you accept Christ.
3. Once you are sent somewhere, you stay there.
I'm done.
i pretty much believ the same thing but u clence ur sins then go to heaven but if ur a non muslim u stay thereI'm muslim so we have different beliefs in hell. I believe hell ISN'T a perminate place for your soul, instead it'a a "hospital" for your soul where it is cleansed of sins before going to heaven.
That's interesting, because I am muslim as well and I have a different belief than you. So do most people I know.
i pretty much believ the same thing but u clence ur sins then go to heaven but if ur a non muslim u stay there
So follow your Ideas up with the bible and not just what you believe with but whether is is more than one hell or not or heaven or not
Common sense should kick in at say Chapter two... and kick in hard !!!...
1.) I am really sorry cobragamer... Look at it this way, around the time the bible was written they still burned witches at the stake... They typed Crocdiles as dragons, squids as monsters, and the world was flat... Things change, but the bible has not... it's a relic, a relic that people can interp as they see fit... Rather than reading it with an open heart, read it with an open mind.
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2.)And when you mention heaven and hell in a Christian scheeme of things, the reason's for going to either seem a little wishy washy... for example, being Gay, you go to Hell and burn, yet preist now join people who are Gay in marriage... Errrr... So does the priest Burn...?
And if the priest is wrong and he does God's work, is the Church and God wrong... and the Bible... The Bible states being Gay is wrong, but if it's now deemed right, is the Bible wrong... and if the Bible is wrong then does that mean there is no Hell or Heaven...?
In a Biblical sense I am past caring... And I think many modern day people are too.
A couple of years ago being gay (no offense intended to any who are homo/bi-sexuals on these forums) was embarasing and wasn't something you'd proclaim. You knew it was wrong.
Wow, that's just sickening!QuoteA couple of years ago being gay (no offense intended to any who are homo/bi-sexuals on these forums) was embarasing and wasn't something you'd proclaim. You knew it was wrong.
Knew it was wrong..? Who knew it was wrong? If you mean a higher level of open prejudice in the non-gay populace due to ignorance and fear, shamming homosexuals into regression because of the contingent of rejection and actual physical harm if they where to reveal themselves as gay, then yeah, I'd have to agree with you...
You know that homosexuality isn't just a human thing? It's in the animal kingdom too... Perhaps Satan has nothing better to do with his time then influence monkeys and dogs into sin!
Your going to acquire some serious problems if you continue to grip onto your faith with such unwavering, dogmatic views.
QuoteCommon sense should kick in at say Chapter two... and kick in hard !!!...Well that's the thing Los, 99% of Christians haven't read the bible, the reason why common sense hasn't kicked in is they don't know what they're worshiping!
Is that so DS? Amazing. It's a shame someone hasn't idolized you yet with such divine knowledge.
Seriously... how much bullshit can you continue to say without people noticing.
Maybe you should link to the evidence showing me to be incorrect?
I recommend you get off your ass and link some reliable sources to disprove before getting on the "attack DS" train as you so often do. Quite frankly, what the fuck would you know?
Do you even have your own viewpoint, or do you just instantly agree with the side I'm not on? Really that's all I've seen from you, a boy who can't do much more then say "NO UR WRONG" or blindly agree with someone else's point without understanding the situation.
Luke 12:5 records Jesus speaking about God's Judgment "But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear, Fear Him, which after He hath killed hath Power to cast into Hell, yea, I say unto you, Fear Him."
"The Lord Jesus shall be revealed from Heaven with His mighty angels, In flaming fire taking Vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the Gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the Presence of the Lord, and from the Glory of his Power" (2 Thessalonians 1:7-9)
As opposed to the concept of Purgatory, damnation to Hell is considered final and irreversible. However, the foundation of the Christian faith is that it is the death of Jesus Christ, and acceptance of his love for us, that allows repentant sinners to avoid the torments of Hell and enjoy eternity with God. Various interpretations of the torments of Hell exist, ranging from fiery pits of wailing sinners to lonely isolation from God's presence.
Or even better, how about you say something that actually requires me to give evidence? What you said pointed out that you hadn't even met a Christian, let alone heard of the bible...
Link? You didn't link at all and yet you claimed that 99% of Christians haven't read the bible.
And I've noticed you choose to see what you want to see DS, which makes you similar to how you view people that are religious.
And "not understanding the situation" from you means: "disagreeing with me" right?
If you can't handle yourself properly in a debate, then I would assume this isn't the best place for you. This is of course if you mean "handle yourself" as in, "have respect for other peoples opinions".
I think the only reason it has been thrown off track is we have been told to use the Bible as our only source of reference, yet the Bible has gone under many changes, I mean in the start God was both good and evil...
Satan only really came about in the New Testament...
Hell
God was the person who cast you to hell...QuoteLuke 12:5 records Jesus speaking about God's Judgment "But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear, Fear Him, which after He hath killed hath Power to cast into Hell, yea, I say unto you, Fear Him."
and then again in Paul's letter:-Quote"The Lord Jesus shall be revealed from Heaven with His mighty angels, In flaming fire taking Vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the Gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the Presence of the Lord, and from the Glory of his Power" (2 Thessalonians 1:7-9)
Descriptions of Hell found in the Bible are quite vague. The books of Matthew, Mark, and Jude tell of a place of fire, while the books of Luke and Revelation report it as an abyss... So you see my confussion, different passages of text give a very different view.
Some Christian devinations of the Bible just state Hell as being a life without God or isolation like pergatory:-QuoteAs opposed to the concept of Purgatory, damnation to Hell is considered final and irreversible. However, the foundation of the Christian faith is that it is the death of Jesus Christ, and acceptance of his love for us, that allows repentant sinners to avoid the torments of Hell and enjoy eternity with God. Various interpretations of the torments of Hell exist, ranging from fiery pits of wailing sinners to lonely isolation from God's presence.
Heaven
Heaven has just as much confussion, it changed many a time in scripture From the 16th to the late 19th century depending on the difference's between the Roman Catholic view, the Orthodox view, the Coptic view, the Jacobite view, the Abyssinian view and Protestant views...
All of these can't be correct...
The Bible as a whole
For those reason's above and I have said time and time again, the Bible has been altered way to much for us to use it to govern or hold close to religious scripture... And for us to only use Christinaity to say if Heaven or Hell exsists is a little hard, when the Bible is so Vauge ?
(Most of the above I used Wikki quotes and passages, I am not good at putting into words every thing I have read or researched... But I have done the cutting and pasting to show my train of thaught)
For those reason's above and I have said time and time again, the Bible has been altered way to much for us to use it to govern or hold close to religious scripture... And for us to only use Christinaity to say if Heaven or Hell exsists is a little hard, when the Bible is so Vauge ?
Link? You didn't link at all and yet you claimed that 99% of Christians haven't read the bible. Me simply disagreeing does not say straight out my view and so you're not sure of why I disagree (I have told you before though). If there is a train (which wouldn't surprise me with such a friendly signature) I'm not one of the carriages. ;)
Why can't we just call it Christianity.
Not Catholic, lutheran, protestant, mormon, and muslim.
I don't see why we have to have all these variations of one thing.
Why can't we just call it Christianity.
Not Catholic, lutheran, protestant, mormon, and muslim.
They all have one god, they happen in the same area, and we just don't need that many.
Saucy, even after proving ataraxy wrong, he'll keep attacking you, because by making him look bad you hurt his feelings or something.
I think it's almost time (yet again thanks to ataraxy) to split the topic up into a "ZOMG I RUIN TOPICS: Posted by ataraxy2" thread.
When I say Christian I'm not referring to the strict priest type, I refer to all who claim to be of that faith, and believe the Christian god to be real, whether they follow the rules or not.
How many Christians do you know that have read through the Christian bible? I'm not talking about a chapter, or blindly skimming a verse or two at church (if they even go), I'm talking about actually reading it, all of it.
That my friend is called "projection".
Me not respecting you has nothing to do with you not agreeing with my opinions...
Your word around here means nothing ataraxy, mine has credit due to past debates. I've earned respect.
Don't get personal, which you seem to do in every second post. Instead of personally attacking me with "Seriously... how much bullshit can you continue to say without people noticing" try showing me wrong using real evidence and showings. That was one of the weakest posts I've seen in here.
Respect of opinions has nothing to do with debating. Respect of the person does.
What we're having right now isn't a debate, it's a pathetic, personal squabble. If you want to debate me that's fine, but what your doing is not debating, it's pathetic.
All of these versions can't be correct... So Christianity has lost track of what's true to the first scripture...
And who's to say Jesus would have wrote it in the same context as his followers...
For example:- If my best mates wrote a book on me or any of you on here did, how much of it would be true me, and how correct will my mind be to your interpritation ?...
That's all the Bible is, it's short stories written by people who followed Jesus about... And keep in mind some of these people used to be blind until Jesus "Cured them"...LOL
Any time soon, you watch the New new Testement (or the New Testement Strikes back) will get released and Jesus will have a Gay mate, and all Gay people in the Bibles eyes will be as natural as thy neighbour...LOL
All of these versions can't be correct... So Christianity has lost track of what's true to the first scripture...
That's all the Bible is, it's short stories written by people who followed Jesus about...
Any time soon, you watch the New new Testement (or the New Testement Strikes back) will get released and Jesus will have a Gay mate, and all Gay people in the Bibles eyes will be as natural as thy neighbour...LOL
It's more than that.
I really would like to hear back from a Christian... it's not a Sunday... Where have they all gone ??
1.) I am really sorry cobragamer... Look at it this way, around the time the bible was written they still burned witches at the stake... They typed Crocdiles as dragons, squids as monsters, and the world was flat... Things change, but the bible has not... it's a relic, a relic that people can interp as they see fit... Rather than reading it with an open heart, read it with an open mind.
----
2.)And when you mention heaven and hell in a Christian scheeme of things, the reason's for going to either seem a little wishy washy... for example, being Gay, you go to Hell and burn, yet preist now join people who are Gay in marriage... Errrr... So does the priest Burn...?
And if the priest is wrong and he does God's work, is the Church and God wrong... and the Bible... The Bible states being Gay is wrong, but if it's now deemed right, is the Bible wrong... and if the Bible is wrong then does that mean there is no Hell or Heaven...?
In a Biblical sense I am past caring... And I think many modern day people are too.
1.) The Bible was written WAY before that. :/ The old testament itself was written 1000's of years before that.
2.) The Bible is unchanging. God is unchanging. The only thing changing is our sense of right and wrong. Or what we percieve is okay. A couple of years ago being gay (no offense intended to any who are homo/bi-sexuals on these forums) was embarasing and wasn't something you'd proclaim. You knew it was wrong. Also, if God says something is wrong and we say it's not, it doesn't mean God is wrong, it means WE are wrong.
[/end only post I'm making in this topic]
2.) The Bible is unchanging. God is unchanging. The only thing changing is our sense of right and wrong. Or what we percieve is okay. A couple of years ago being gay (no offense intended to any who are homo/bi-sexuals on these forums) was embarasing and wasn't something you'd proclaim. You knew it was wrong. Also, if God says something is wrong and we say it's not, it doesn't mean God is wrong, it means WE are wrong.
[/end only post I'm making in this topic]
The Bible is unchanging...WTF... It has more drafts than my local pub !!!... You have Lukes version, the Old testiment, the New testiment... It's like Dragon Ball Z... The Jap version, the Comic Version and then Toonarmi's version, bits taken, bits added (Bad translation)... But the Bible is more fictional than DBZ.
God is unchanging- Again... WTF... First God was both good and Evil... now the Bible has written in the Devil, God's become a bundle of joy...
A couple of years ago being gay was embarasing and wasn't something you'd proclaim
That's why he exists. He creates, for eternity.
God creates creatures that die...?I think that religions typically agree that their god eventually wants you to join her in heaven, so god makes people die so they can be reunited with her.
Why...?
~~~~~
Ok, don't kill me guys--- Don't hate me for saying this
Religion - a set of beliefs
Beliefs - confidence in the truth or existence of something not immediately susceptible to rigorous proof, to suppose, think
Opinion - a belief based on grounds insufficient to prove certianty
There you have it: religion=beliefs=something you have confidence in despite lack of proof. Therefore, religions are opinionated, and everything everyone has said in this thread is correct because it is their opinion, aka your religion. Your religion is your opinion on life. I'm just stating mine.
Also, check out this church:
http://www.venganza.org/ (http://www.venganza.org/)
According to my logic, they are correct as well, because their church is their opinion, and an opinion is never incorrect (except in English class.) Hooray for Pastafarianism.
Mental acceptance of a proposition, statement, or fact, as true, on the ground of authority or evidence; assent of the mind to a statement, or to the truth of a fact beyond observation, on the testimony of another, or to a fact or truth on the evidence of consciousness; the mental condition involved in this assent. Constr. of a statement, or (obs.) a speaker; that...; belief in (a thing); persuasion of its existence.
assent of the mind to a statement, or to the truth of a fact beyond observation, on the testimony of anotherIn any case, I am surprised that the atheists of the forum aren't up in arms about you saying that disdain for religion is a religion.
(not believing in it, but proclaiming to believe it as a political statement attempting to demonstrate religious people are stupid)
....so...your saying Christian's are like jedis...Lol, if only...
Alright, I'm gonna come in state my opinion and leave.
1. Heaven is real and so is Hell
2. I'm Christian, so I believe the main thing that gets you to Heaven or Hell is wether you accept Christ.
3. Once you are sent somewhere, you stay there.
I'm done.
@Arwym - I'm going to be blunt. That's a pretty weak reason to leave Christianity. No human being is good. As for people not even hearing the Gospel, that's why we're called to preach to ALL nations. Chances are they've heard of Christianity before, even if it's been misinterpreted.
I'll tell you another thing, my God the Christian God, "...watches over all of us with the same eyes. My God does not divide his children into groups. My God gives second chances. My God forgives. My God is intelligent, wise, tolerant. My God knows no hypocrisy. My God is full of TRUE love.
"
Satan can say that and not go to Hell. It's not the words. You can say that all you want, but unless you make a concious decision to follow Christ, then there will be no conversion in that person's life. If you mean Christians who sin a lot, if there's no conviction, chances are they either weren't saved to begin with, or they have become numb to the sin. A Christian can sin. All people sin. Being Christian doesn't change that fact. Now does it mean Christians should sin? Absolutely not, but God knows we're not perfect and He forgives us.
Another thing, they may not have heard the Gospel, but if they call out to God, God will find a way to reveal Himself to them.
I don't really believe in "hell" per se, but if there was one, it wouldn't be fire and brimstone and pain. These are physical things, and after losing our bodies, the physical realm is no longer our burden to hold.