Gaia, Final Fantasy, real?

[Chiakumu]

The Gaia Hypothesis

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaia_theory_(science)

Although it seems at first glance from the title, that this thread is spam, I assure you it is not. It is a common theme in Final Fantasy, most notably Final Fantasy: The Spirits Within, and Final Fantasy VII.

What I mean by the Gaia Hpothesis is something proposed by the Geophysicist: James Lovelock. He theorised that the planet acts just like one giant organism, regulating everything about itself. A super organism if you prefer.

In Final Fantasy, this was taken a step further and called the Raifusturemu, or Life Stream. Forgive me if I made a spelling error there. Where the planet actively protects itself from invaders. Notably in Final Fantasy: Spirits Within, I mean the ghosts as the invaders, and similary in Final Fantasy VII when the meteor was about to sestroy the planet.

What I want to discuss, is who believes that the Gaia Hypothesis is true, or who is skeptical. What do people think of my proposed link, and how this influenced a number of Final Fantasy games if not more Roleplaying games.

I know that at first it seems far too good to be true, but, it does stand to reason looking back through time, and for me, it seems to have influenced Roleplaying Games quite significantly.

In Final Fantasy 9, the Life Stream, took a different form. Mist which was created from the earth and used to create monsters, however this might be a little too broad an example.

[ataraxy2]

I'm not quite sure what you mean. But I was told that almost all Final Fantasies originate from the Sephirotica or something. Is that what this is?

[ataraxy2]

Well the Sephirotica is beyond me... and I think this discussion will be too. Understood the animation though, and what I got from it was that the plant healed itself - technically this happens in any Final Fantasy with the crystals. So they could be connected? I dunno. Yet to play VII but I was told of how it is very religious as is IX with a Tree and V with a Tree, I'd look for the link but it'd be spoiling V for you. Apparently all FF's somehow connect with this Sephirotica thing... and I was just curious as to if you knew. You obviously don't.

[gonorrhea]

I think a part of me just died in laughter.
'LOL I PLEYD TIHS VG DU U GUISE THINK MEBBE ITZ TRU LOL'

[ataraxy2]

Final Fantasy VII is not religious, not in the least

All Final Fantasies are somehow or somewhat, probably - it's fit in so well with the feel they give off, especially X. If you've played V... spoilers ahoy! The right part is rather obvious (think it's midsection): http://forums.eyesonff.com/showthread.php?t=66409

If you haven't played V don't bother. DON'T SPOIL THAT GAME OF ALL FINAL FANTASIES!

[landofshadows]

Secret of Mana on the SNES calls the sprit of the Earth Mana force...

I see the links your making...

Wickens think the Earth has its own Soul or Energy call Mannon or some thing like that, Native Indians also think the Earth has a Soul or Spirt...

We all know tree's, grass and other vegitation is alive so why not the Earth ?

[gonorrhea]

Look up the biological definition of 'life' and get back to me on that.

[Blizzard]

Interesting idea. If we actually all only constist out of energy, being atoms and mass is actually a side effect of "much energy", why shouldn't everything be alive in some way. It doesn't have to "think" or be intelligent. I mean, look at plants. Do they "think"? No, yet they are alive. Maybe, it doesn't have to be "biological" life.

[Jesus Hitler]

Interesting idea. If we actually all only constist out of energy, being atoms and mass is actually a side effect of "much energy", why shouldn't everything be alive in some way. It doesn't have to "think" or be intelligent. I mean, look at plants. Do they "think"? No, yet they are alive. Maybe, it doesn't have to be "biological" life.

I think you need to look up the definition of "life".

[landofshadows]

Have a read for yourself Jesus Hitler and Gono:- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life

Life, in its most generic definition, is a quality of matter. Matter that is 'alive' forms organisms of vast variety. Properties common to the known organisms found on Earth (plants, animals, fungi, protists, archaea and bacteria) are that they are carbon-and-water-based, are cellular with complex organization, undergo metabolism, possess a capacity to grow, respond to stimuli, reproduce and, through natural selection, adapt in succeeding generations.

An entity with the above properties is considered to be an organism. However, not every definition of life considers all of these properties to be essential. For example, the capacity for descent with modification is often taken as the only essential property of life. This definition notably includes viruses, which do not qualify under narrower definitions as they are acellular and do not metabolise. Broader definitions of life may also include theoretical non-carbon-based life and other alternative biology.

The Earth could be an Organism.  I am not saying its capable of thought or protecting it's self in the same way as described in the post first made by Chiakumu... But many idea's even that in Star Wars goes into the theory of a divine power that binds all LIVING things including planets together, like the Force / Mediclorants...

Dragon Ball Z, again all based on Energy KI...

Budisium is a faith based on Energy, and they also say the Planet has its own spirt.

It's not a stupid debtae to have started... It's fairly interesting unlike your Fictious Nation of inderpently ruled presidential states Topic... TOSH !!!

[Jesus Hitler]

Have a read for yourself Jesus Hitler and Gono:- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life

Blizzard seemed to be suggesting that something could be alive because it existed and that plant were not biological.

Life, in its most generic definition, is a quality of matter. Matter that is 'alive' forms organisms of vast variety. Properties common to the known organisms found on Earth (plants, animals, fungi, protists, archaea and bacteria) are that they are carbon-and-water-based, are cellular with complex organization, undergo metabolism, possess a capacity to grow, respond to stimuli, reproduce and, through natural selection, adapt in succeeding generations.

An entity with the above properties is considered to be an organism. However, not every definition of life considers all of these properties to be essential. For example, the capacity for descent with modification is often taken as the only essential property of life. This definition notably includes viruses, which do not qualify under narrower definitions as they are acellular and do not metabolise. Broader definitions of life may also include theoretical non-carbon-based life and other alternative biology.

The Earth could be an Organism.  I am not saying its capable of thought or protecting it's self in the same way as described in the post first made by Chiakumu... But many idea's even that in Star Wars goes into the theory of a divine power that binds all LIVING things including planets together, like the Force / Mediclorants...

What does it metabolize? When has it reproduced?

By the way, Star Wars is a soft science fiction movie, not something that should be discussed seriously.

Dragon Ball Z, again all based on Energy KI...

That goes triple for Dragonball Z.

Budisium is a faith based on Energy, and they also say the Planet has its own spirt.

Even if that were true, the definition of life does not include a "spirit".

It's not a stupid debtae to have started... It's fairly interesting unlike your Fictious Nation of inderpently ruled presidential states Topic... TOSH !!!

Fuck you you fucking twat. Your criticisms of a fictional government that I created off the top of my head were retarded because half of it was unreadable junk and you kept assuming that I was talking about the United States. I knew it didn't belong in this forum because there was nothing about it to debate but you were so eager to jump on me because it wasn't a utopian government that you ignored everything else.

By the way, this forum isn't made just for you. if a particular thread bores you then you can kindly fuck off.

[ataraxy2]

Fuck you you fucking twat.

*breaks out into hysterical laughs*

I think I finally realised but are you suggesting the planet heals itself? That's a stretch and a half.

[landofshadows]

Fuck you you fucking twat. Your criticisms of a fictional government that I created off the top of my head were retarded because half of it was unreadable junk and you kept assuming that I was talking about the United States. I knew it didn't belong in this forum because there was nothing about it to debate but you were so eager to jump on me because it wasn't a utopian government that you ignored everything else.

By the way, this forum isn't made just for you. if a particular thread bores you then you can kindly fuck off.

LOL... Your so Funny... Thats Full on Flamming right there...

What does it metabolize? When has it reproduced?

Lava comes out of Volcano's and makes more land... Thats one example of how the Earth Creates more Earth.

By the way, Star Wars is a soft science fiction movie, not something that should be discussed seriously.

So is Final Fantasy... This whole debate is based on could fanatsy be reality in this area.

Even if that were true, the definition of life does not include a "spirit".

Nobody can say if a spirt or soul exsists... But try telling that to some one who thinks God is ever darn place.  God is a live isn't he, and he is a spirt ?

[Jesus Hitler]

Fuck you you fucking twat. Your criticisms of a fictional government that I created off the top of my head were retarded because half of it was unreadable junk and you kept assuming that I was talking about the United States. I knew it didn't belong in this forum because there was nothing about it to debate but you were so eager to jump on me because it wasn't a utopian government that you ignored everything else.

By the way, this forum isn't made just for you. if a particular thread bores you then you can kindly fuck off.

LOL... Your so Funny... Thats Full on Flamming right there...

You're the one who brought it up. If I am wrong, feel free to report me.

What does it metabolize? When has it reproduced?

Lava comes out of Volcano's and makes more land... Thats one example of how the Earth Creates more Earth.

It doesn't create more Earth, just more land for land dwelling creatures to inhabit instead of sea dwelling ones. And if that was how it grew then why is there not a lot more land? If this Gaia only inhabits the land then wouldn't there be thousands of these organisms instead of one?

By the way, Star Wars is a soft science fiction movie, not something that should be discussed seriously.

So is Final Fantasy... This whole debate is based on could fanatsy be reality in this area.

but you're bringing up concept from those movies aas if they were evidence for something.

Even if that were true, the definition of life does not include a "spirit".

Nobody can say if a spirt or soul exsists... But try telling that to some one who thinks God is ever darn place.  God is a live isn't he, and he is a spirt ?

I think you need to reread that definition of life that you posted a few minutes ago. It doesn't mention spirits anywhere. Spirits, by the way, are in some cultures able to inhabit rocks, rings, houses, and corpses. Are any of these things alive?

[gonorrhea]

This thread's lolarious.

[landofshadows]

but you're bringing up concept from those movies aas if they were evidence for something.

I am trying to say FF is not the only example of the Planet having a life force, I am backing up the first posts claim with more evidence that other WELL known more main stream works of fantasy are also based on the same theory or simular.

I think I finally realised but are you suggesting the planet heals itself? That's a stretch and a half.

You do know there was an Ice Age once, and then the world slowly healed its self...

You're the one who brought it up. If I am wrong, feel free to report me.

LOL... I found it pretty funny you reacted like that... It was Gono who I aimed at he started that rubbish in Intelligent debate from what looks like your online Chat... And the only reason I mentioned it is Gono is Spamming in a pretty good topic:-

*breaks out into hysterical laughs*

I think I finally realised but are you suggesting the planet heals itself? That's a stretch and a half.

Why are you laughing... History shows the world has recovered from an Ice Age and hits from commets... And after the next Ice age will do again...

It doesn't create more Earth, just more land for land dwelling creatures to inhabit instead of sea dwelling ones. And if that was how it grew then why is there not a lot more land? If this Gaia only inhabits the land then wouldn't there be thousands of these organisms instead of one?

May be the Earth is keeping an Equalibrium... May be thats why its now attacking us by Warming its self to rid the earth of us Humans, in a way healing its self... After all if the Human race was to be wipped out by Global Warming (Earth Warming) then the only creatures to be here will be Sea life and sea life doesn't destroy the planet like us...

(PLEASE NOTE I USED THE WORDS MAY BE) - its another view on things thats all... I know its bolloxs but we are talking about Ghia and energy force and flow in the planet... So I am speaking hyperthically if the world is alive could all these Natural disasters be an Attack from the Earth against us ?

report me.

I like you... in away... I find you funny, when ever I have an answer for everything you get angry and attack rather than stay intelligent, and then tell me to leave intelligent debate...

It doesn't create more Earth, just more land

How are planets made ?... are planets born ?... Whats at the very centre of a planet ? What is their purpose ?

What if the Lava is like our blood and the Land is just a Scab, and one day will all be gone, What if the planet is supposed to be a Sea planet and we are a istake, and soon the planet will right that...?

There are so many unanswered Questions... If God didn't make the planets or the Big Bang what did...?  Heck planets could be Eggs for a massive planet laying beasty in the middle of space for all we know, and it may just choose to lay the Eggs (Planets) near Stars / Suns to encubate them....

There are loads of What if's... So why not What if the planet is alive ?

Why are you being so narrow minded ?... We are talking about a Fantasy, try using your imagination a bit.

[ataraxy2]

Quote
*breaks out into hysterical laughs*

I think I finally realised but are you suggesting the planet heals itself? That's a stretch and a half.

Why are you laughing... History shows the world has recovered from an Ice Age and hits from commets... And after the next Ice age will do again...

*shudders*

I was laughing at the guy who called you a twat...

And thanks for correcting me, I always forget about things like Ice Ages.

[landofshadows]

I was laughing at the guy who called you a twat...

Glad to hear you was laughing at him rather than with him...

I don't think this debate is the most serious ever... But its FUN, to think about

[Jesus Hitler]

but you're bringing up concept from those movies aas if they were evidence for something.

I am trying to say FF is not the only example of the Planet having a life force, I am backing up the first posts claim with more evidence that other WELL known more main stream works of fantasy are also based on the same theory or simular.

Once again, you are bringing it up as if it was evidence for something. I know there are ficticious accounts of planet-sized organisms. Have you ever heard of Solaris?

I think I finally realised but are you suggesting the planet heals itself? That's a stretch and a half.

You do know there was an Ice Age once, and then the world slowly healed its self...

The Ice Ages weren't disasters.

It doesn't create more Earth, just more land for land dwelling creatures to inhabit instead of sea dwelling ones. And if that was how it grew then why is there not a lot more land? If this Gaia only inhabits the land then wouldn't there be thousands of these organisms instead of one?

May be the Earth is keeping an Equalibrium... May be thats why its now attacking us by Warming its self to rid the earth of us Humans, in a way healing its self... After all if the Human race was to be wipped out by Global Warming (Earth Warming) then the only creatures to be here will be Sea life and sea life doesn't destroy the planet like us...

If the entire planet was a living organism then it wouldn't be concerned with what we do at all since it would be so huge and we so small. We couldn't even be a disease since we can't knock it out of its orbig or solidify its core or anything like that.

(PLEASE NOTE I USED THE WORDS MAY BE) - its another view on things thats all... I know its bolloxs but we are talking about Ghia and energy force and flow in the planet... So I am speaking hyperthically if the world is alive could all these Natural disasters be an Attack from the Earth against us ?

report me.

I like you... in away... I find you funny, when ever I have an answer for everything you get angry and attack rather than stay intelligent, and then tell me to leave intelligent debate...

No, I told you to stay out of threads that bore you instead of bitching about it.

How are planets made ?... are planets born ?...

Planets form out of dust cloud that surround tars when they first form. They are not born.

Whats at the very centre of a planet ?

Depends on the planet. The Earth's core is a solid ball of nickel and iron.

What is their purpose ?

Planets don't have a purpose.

What if the Lava is like our blood and the Land is just a Scab, and one day will all be gone, What if the planet is supposed to be a Sea planet and we are a istake, and soon the planet will right that...?

If you knew anything about geology then you would know how stupid saying "What if lava is like blood?" sound. Planets aren't supposed to be anything.

There are so many unanswered Questions... If God didn't make the planets or the Big Bang what did...?  Heck planets could be Eggs for a massive planet laying beasty in the middle of space for all we know, and it may just choose to lay the Eggs (Planets) near Stars / Suns to encubate them....

Holy shit.

There are loads of What if's... So why not What if the planet is alive ?

We aren't having a fun "What if?" game here, we are discussing the possibility of the planet being alive. That government thread that you loved bashing was a "What if?" thread, though.

Why are you being so narrow minded ?

You lose.

[landofshadows]

You lose.

What... You say this isn't a game, yet I lose...?

Why does every thing have to be about winning loosing...?

I am trying to put across a point, or a frame of thought, I am not trying to better you, you may have noticed I posted in this topic well before you decided to, I had an opinion then and it hasn't changed.... And I find using my Imagination Fun... I am a creative person.

You turn every DEBATE into some thing negative... I try and use a debate to better my mind... I don't do it to upset people.

Once again, you are bringing it up as if it was evidence for something.

What's your point ?... Is that against the rules or some thing...? To mention some thing that also has simualr foundings and ethics as some thing else... Hows that wrong... All I am saying is other fantasy writters have drawn on the same lines as FF... GET OVER IT... The more people that think along the same lines the more plausable the idea... GET IT NOW, or shall we repeat all this again ?, just cuz it rubs you up the wrong way...

The Ice Ages weren't disasters.

Right so the start of the next one will be a normal day then ?... Thanks God for that, I will buy a brolly for the next occasion as a hand me down for the next generation. 

It was a Disaster for the Dinosaurs... if not a Disaster what the Hell would you call it ?

(Its not like on the Weather forcast, tomorrow there will be the start of an Ice age... Wrap up warm...!!!! of course its a Disaster, a very big natural one, if I was to claim on my House INS, they would say its a natural Disaster and an act of God...)

If the entire planet was a living organism then it wouldn't be concerned with what we do at all since it would be so huge and we so small. We couldn't even be a disease since we can't knock it out of its orbig or solidify its core or anything like that.

Think of us as a rash, one thats getting slightly to irritating... If you had a rash that you could cover you would know doubt put up with it, but when it starts itching then you would flush it off your-self I would imagine... just cuz we aint killing it doesn't mean we are not adversly hurting it.

No, I told you to stay out of threads that bore you instead of bitching about it.

All I said in the other thread is "I Had a Weird Thought" sounded interesting from the title and the content was a let down as its all based on a thought in your head and no refference material for any of us to comment on what so ever, how can we debate on a fictious nation thats in your head if we get shot down when comapring it to a real life nation like your home country...LOL

Depends on the planet. The Earth's core is a solid ball of nickel and iron.

How do you know that for sure... Have we ever dug that far ?... And if you compress a rock hard enough doesn't it create a Gem ?, the pressure at the centre of the Earth must be massive... Oh and what causes Iron or Nickel to have Lava surround by rock and earth on the outter edge ?... I dunno... it all sounds like your working off of science and speculation to me...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inner_core

The inner core is the deepest of the distinct layers of the earth. The inner core is composed primarily of a nickel-iron alloy combined with some unknown elements[1].

Unkown elements, could they be organic... I mean some thing had to have created the Magama ?

Planets form out of dust cloud that surround tars when they first form. They are not born.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/10/10/hubble_dusts/

Immanuel Kant was right: planets are formed from disks of dusty debris swirling around stars. NASA says images taken by the Hubble Space Telescope finally confirm Kant's prediction, made over 200 years ago.

So how was the first planet made or the first star...?  Or come to think of it the dust, and what gave the dust momentum in the first place ? (This is very chicken and the Egg for a Topic about Gaia)

Planets don't have a purpose.

So why did God Bother making them, he could have given us Space wings and Special Space lungs instead I guess... Every thing has a Purpose...

(By the way I don't follow the bible or God... I am just using him to aid my needs in this Topic, well it is a Fantasy based topic, and God is the BIGGEST mythilogical creature there is)

What if just like the Dust Planets get drawn together to form some thing even bigger...? Then they may have a Purpose... "If some thing is... then they are, thus they have a purpose to belong" They you go I just made a Hi-cue type thingy...

Saying a planet has no purpose is like saying a rock has no purpose, saying that could be interpreted you know very little on geology... And some rocks like the Lime Stone serve great needs... So to does our planet to us it servers every thing we need so there by has a purpose...

What if every living thing has a Purpose and we all have Gaia running through us and when we die it joins the Gaia stream of every planet or the universe its self... WHat if Gaia is what creates the ddust that creates the planets that spawn and maintain life... What if we are a single link in that chain, we live we reproduce we die and add to the Gaia flow... LIFE CREATES LIFE...

Holy shit.

I think I got a little Terry Pratchet for a mo... soz... Nice choice of words... I wonder if God does Holy Turds ? & farts out a stonking Choir...LOL

As you can see I over think things... No need to attack me for having a mind or over active imagination.

One more thing:-

What does Lolarious mean ?... I have checked the English Dictionary site with no result...
http://thesaurus.reference.com/browse/lolarious

[Darico]

How do you know planets dont have a purpose? im very curious.

EDIT: Also... The dust came from somewhere. But who knows where exacty?

[landofshadows]

How do you know planets dont have a purpose? im very curious.

EDIT: Also... The dust came from somewhere. But who knows where exacty?

(just upped your REP from a -1 to a 0) Nicely made points, it will be interesting to see how Jesus Hitler attacks you...LOL

My guess on the dust would be a planet that exploaded, by some means... But the very first paricles of dust, I have no idea... Nobody can say for sure what started the universe or the matter contained within it... If I had to guess I would say too much anti matter becomes a pressure like none other and that in turn created matter... Sounds slightly MENTAL, but so does the theory God made every thing, and he made the world and the stars before he made light, so effectivly he made the Earth in the Dark, thats some crazy works of Geniuss, either that or he can see i the Dark... (again I am now thinking to much)...

All I needs say is any thing is possible when it comes to energy based life, I mean we can't see GOD, we can't see most forms of energy, so if Gaia does exsist in some form (Like a Sprit, Soul, Life force, Gaia, Mana, Medicloriants etc... we wouldn't know about it) - So if we can't disprove a theory then its an open debate on plausability... Thus, why I am.

[Darico]

O.o; stop using long words... lol.

(just upped your REP from a -1 to a 0)

I wonder who put me to -1 anyway... *Stares at jesus hitler*

All I think I needs say is any thing is possible when it comes to energy based life, I mean we can't see GOD, we can't see most forms of energy, so if Gaia does exsist in some form (Like a Sprit, Soul, Life force, Gaia, Mana, Medicloriants etc... we wouldn't know about it) - So if we can't disprove a theory then its an open debate on plausability... Thus, why I am.

Agreed. Absolutly anything is possible. Who knows what tomorrow may bring? Wake up to find bright green stuff pouring out of the planet? Somehow doubtful. Some people can say they have spoken with the planet and stuff like that, and sure we can call them looneys and what-not. But who really knows? As far as I am concerned, if you can't prove something doesn't exsist, maybe it does exsist. Or maybe I am talking nonsence. How can prove something doesn't exsist?

I guess what I am trying to say is that you shouldn't dismiss something just because you don't believe in it or think it possible. Maybe, sub-consciously, we are all scared of the fact that something like the planets have a greater purpose then to just habour life.

Regards,
Darico

[nevfx]

I can see what your all saying, but I agree with Darico. Just because you don't believe in someting doesn't mean its not there. Just because you don't wont something to happen doesn't mean it won't happen. Darico's right.

[landofshadows]

*Claps nods and agree's* - with Darico and nevfx (thats my point exactly)

So Gaia (or simular) could or couldn't exsist... it can't be proven either way so there fore it remains open as a plausable force.