http://theseoultimes.com/ST/?url=/ST/db/read.php?idx=7333
First three paragraphs:
Quote
Some of the Chinese people are known to be eating babies and the news circulated through the internet or via Email communication is shocking the world.
An Email report received by The Seoul Times confirmed that news with several vivid and appalling pictures of human embryos fetuses being made into a soup for human consumption.
The report went on. A town in the southern province of Canton (Guangdong) is now on trend taking baby herbal soup to increase overall health and stamina and the power of sexual performance in particular.
This is the worst thing I have ever seen. I'm glad they just didn't murder little babies and used aborted or already-dying babies, but damn...
Oh my........
....
....
...thats just not right....I am shocked....
I'm inclined to think it's a hoax because everything is, though I have no idea how credible a source the seoul times is.
As disgusting as it is to think about the logistics of the act, the bones would make it difficult to eat as it is shown in the gross pictures, so I'm guessing it's a hoax.
Hoax or not, what the fuck is wrong with someone to even come up with an idea like that?
On a less emotional note, the bones are like gristle at the developmental stage pictured. The Koreans do something similar with duck eggs.
Oh, my gods... that was very disturbing. I HOPE it's a hoax. I HOPE it's a hoax.
Quote from: Owyn on October 29, 2009, 01:00:23 AM
I'm inclined to think it's a hoax because everything is, though I have no idea how credible a source the seoul times is.
Man, I'm so disturbed by this, I
hope it's a hoax, but I don't think it is. :\
I'm betting that it's photoshoped or something.
ok now while I don't personally find the idea kinda disgusting, you guys do have to put things in perspective.
It's a totally different country.
In some countries it is acceptable or necessary to cannibalize the dead. So where we find it revolting, it's just part of their society.
"what is good for one culture is not necessarily good for another" to loosely quote Darwin.
Not really fussed by this.
I am guessing hoax, basically sounding like scared mother about everything posted
QuoteHe pointed to his second wife next to him. She is 19 years old. The 62-year-old man testified that they have sex everyday.
This is unnecessary information, more gossip to add on upon the "story"
Another thing I notices was how unbiased the whole feel of the report was "This heinous crimes..." (I mostly chose that quote due to bad grammar)
If it is not a hoax then it is how a part of culture lives, big deal. Look far enough back and I bet you can find worse crimes in your legacy.
This shit IS disgusting. I am offended by these bunch of words.
Quote from: NPC on October 29, 2009, 11:17:54 PM
I am guessing hoax, basically sounding like scared mother about everything posted
QuoteHe pointed to his second wife next to him. She is 19 years old. The 62-year-old man testified that they have sex everyday.
This is unnecessary information, more gossip to add on upon the "story"
Another thing I notices was how unbiased the whole feel of the report was "This heinous crimes..." (I mostly chose that quote due to bad grammar)
If it is not a hoax then it is how a part of culture lives, big deal. Look far enough back and I bet you can find worse crimes in your legacy.
The news are not completely subjective (if I'm thinking of the right word) ideas. I'm taking government in school, and one of the things I read in my textbook was how the media has shifted from descriptive reporting to more of an opinionated press; humans are not without bias.
Quote from: The Spy on October 29, 2009, 03:03:20 PM
ok now while I don't personally find the idea kinda disgusting, you guys do have to put things in perspective.
I know that, but I'm putting things in my perspective here; however, if you went over whether this is cannibalism or not, it'd also turn into an issue of abortion, too.
Hmmm. Okay. Assuming it's not a hoax, let's put this in perspective, looking through the lens of what we in the civilized English speaking world see as "right" or "normal". After all, since we are discussing this, it really doesn't matter what the Chinese think. I want to talk about what this means in our collective western culture for right now.
I would like to think that any one of us would agree that eating an unborn fetus = wrong for the following reasons:
Unless you're starving to death, cannibalism is not good for you.
Pursuant to the above, if you must consume the dead, let it be those who have died from natural causes, not those killed.
As far as abortion goes, it is a necessary evil, like labor unions and nuclear weapons. Necessary, but evil all the same.
Leave children out of it. Whatever it is, don't include the innocent.
That's just my opinion, strong as it may be. I'm dying to hear a counter point, though.
Quote from: Samurai Jack on October 30, 2009, 01:17:16 AM
Unless you're starving to death, cannibalism is not good for you.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but one of the reasons (or THE reason) that abortion is allowed is because the fetus is not considered a person and therefore wouldn't be counted as murder. If my logic is correct, calling the consumption of a fetus as "cannibalism" would mean the fetus is a person, no?
Of course, this is sounding a lot like something for the Debate forum :P
those dicks! they should be stopped,coz that...is just sick,they are sick in their f***ing minds!
Quote from: Samurai Jack on October 30, 2009, 01:17:16 AM
Hmmm. Okay. Assuming it's not a hoax, let's put this in perspective, looking through the lens of what we in the civilized English speaking world see as "right" or "normal". After all, since we are discussing this, it really doesn't matter what the Chinese think. I want to talk about what this means in our collective western culture for right now.
That is extremely ego-centric of you.
Considering that it's happening in -their- country, and we are totally uninvolved, I'd say it's -our- point of view that doesn't matter.
Quote from: Samurai Jack on October 30, 2009, 01:17:16 AM
I would like to think that any one of us would agree that eating an unborn fetus = wrong for the following reasons:
Unless you're starving to death, cannibalism is not good for you.
Pursuant to the above, if you must consume the dead, let it be those who have died from natural causes, not those killed.
Cannibalism might very well be a huge part of spirituality for a culture, such as a tribe who believes that if you consume the flesh of your foes that it will cause you to take their strength into yourself. That's only one possible example for why some cultures might be cannibalistic. I can come up with more if needed.
Quote from: Samurai Jack on October 30, 2009, 01:17:16 AM
As far as abortion goes, it is a necessary evil, like labor unions and nuclear weapons. Necessary, but evil all the same.
Leave children out of it. Whatever it is, don't include the innocent.
That's just my opinion, strong as it may be. I'm dying to hear a counter point, though.
Abortion is in no way necessary, I have no idea where you're getting that. And saying abortion is necessary then saying 'leave the innocent' right after another is kinda contradictory.
Abortion is necessary for those who are silly enough to get pregnant when they don't have the means to raise a child.
Quote from: chewey on October 31, 2009, 03:49:38 AM
Abortion is necessary for those who are silly enough to get pregnant when they don't have the means to raise a child.
Adoption.
Yes, everybody wants to carry around a baby for nine months and then when the time comes just pass it along to whoever and act like it never happened.
Nam's saying that abortion isn't necessary, it's optional. Whether they want to go through the process of birth or not is up to them, but having an abortion isn't absolutely necessary.
Quote from: Cecil on October 31, 2009, 04:16:40 AM
Nam's saying that abortion isn't necessary, it's optional. Whether they want to go through the process of birth or not is up to them, but having an abortion isn't absolutely necessary.
exactly.
I was saying having the option of abortion is absolutely necessary, which I think is what the dude was originally saying. :)
Okay, well, that's your opinion and you're allowed it. NAMKCOR's opinion is different though, and others may different too, so if you want to argue that further take it to Elitist Debate please.
I can agree that having the option available can be considered necessary. The act itself, is what I feel isn't.
Quote from: Cecil on October 31, 2009, 05:45:09 AM
Okay, well, that's your opinion and you're allowed it. NAMKCOR's opinion is different though, and others may different too, so if you want to argue that further take it to Elitist Debate please.
His opinion isn't different, it's unrelated. That wasn't clear until now.
Uhm, this is extremely disturbing.
On a note, I find abortion, needed for some people, though I don't support it but Im not against it. Just I feel its a part of life, unfortunately for many people they're against while many are for it. Some are in the middle, and just accept it.
Thats just my ranting of the subject, and back on topic.
That shit is just disturbing to me.
Quote from: Ruzu on November 01, 2009, 10:04:28 AM
On a note, I find abortion, needed for some people, though I don't support it but Im not against it. Just I feel its a part of life, unfortunately for many people they're against while many are for it. Some are in the middle, and just accept it.
What?
Nothing, ignore me. I was just ranting and whatnot.
Quote from: NAMKCOR on October 31, 2009, 03:22:36 AM
That is extremely ego-centric of you.
Considering that it's happening in -their- country, and we are totally uninvolved, I'd say it's -our- point of view that doesn't matter.
Just out of curiosity, would you say the same if it were a topic of human rights violations, such as genocide? I think that as a human race, we should care about things that are happening to other human beings even if they are not within our national or cultural borders. Whether a fetus is human or not is obviously not something universally agreed upon, but where a person thinks it is, I don't see the argument that "it's not
here, therefore we shouldn't care" as particularly convincing. I would say that might be the more egocentric opinion, as it is ostensibly saying that we shouldn't care about other human beings unless they share our cultural perspective.
That being said, I do understand concerns about imposing our cultural norms on other people and colonialism is bad and all, but I don't see why a recognition of that should translate to not caring about other human beings in other cultures. And where the human rights violations are grave, I think that that could justify forceful action on the part of other nations. I don't think cannibalism is grave enough, even if we were to accept that fetuses are human, but I also don't think that it's egocentric to condemn it.
I see many of us are trying hard to see this from an accepting point of view, which I suppose is good- acceptance of others is always welcome in the world. I guess I threw out a few poorly thought out opinions because of the shock value. I'm gonna leave this one alone from now on because I can't think of it in any other way except through my own eyes, and I just can't get over the fact that a human fetus is being boiled for lunch. I like to think of myself as fairly progressive and open minded, but I just can't do it this time.
Thanks for your counter points, guys, if nothing else, it makes a really good debate. I'll exit this conversation with something I found while playing Year Zero a couple of years back. Food for thought... no pun intended.
I didn't say we shouldn't care. I said we shouldn't judge.
I don't agree with cannibalism, but I am not going to judge the culture that it's included in.
What? This isn't just cannibalism, its infanticide/cannibalism. Of course I'm going to judge it. Its fucked up.
That isn't how stem cells work, idiots.
Yeah, idiots.
They're doing it wrong.
It's fetus dumplings which have preternatural qualities.
Quote from: NAMKCOR on November 03, 2009, 03:31:13 AM
I didn't say we shouldn't care. I said we shouldn't judge.
Again, I'm taking a more general approach to this than just the situation at hand, but:
It seems to me that to care effectually, the very least that is required is to judge the perpetrator to have committed a wrong. To say, "I care that your family was massacred by some militant faction, but that's just part of their culture so I'm not going to judge them" is a particularly ineffectual caring. It is even more problematic if it is used as a justification not to interfere in order to prevent some future massacre. It seems to me that there can be no real line separating judgement and caring. In order to care that something bad has happened or is happening, we have to judge the behaviour that results in that "something bad" as being wrong. If we categorize the behaviour as wrong, then the actors must be doing something wrong, and we are thus implicitly stating that whatever reasons the actor might have (including cultural background) for that behaviour is insufficient to justify the wrong. In some cases, we might care more about preserving cultural autonomy than we do about the individuals harmed by that culture's practice, but in those cases I would still categorize it as a lack of any effectual type of care.
In any case, I am not sure if a cultural analysis would be entirely appropriate to apply to the situation in this thread (even though I am assuming it is a hoax), as cannibalism is not a cultural norm in China. If a community in Iowa took up ritualistic (and voluntary) human sacrifice, I don't think it would be appropriate to infer a cultural immunity to that when it should be clear from the laws of the US that such behaviour is unnacceptable, even though the victims volunteer and nobody in the community considers the behaviour to be aberrant.
I love reading Modern Algebra's posts. He always says what I want to say far better than I could ever say it. Awesome =)
mm babies.
My stance is that we don't have a right to tell the rest of the world how to live just because we're America.
Our culture doesn't define what human rights mean, it doesn't define what morality and right and wrong are, anywhere other than in America.
That's why I'm saying put things in perspective. If cannibalism or even infanticide is part of another culture and has been for a long time or whatever, then by all means disagree with it strongly and don't do it yourself, but you can't very well hold another culture to your standards just because you happen to not like their standards.
To give a more easily understood example, I disagree strongly with how the gay community is handling the rights movement. I don't agree with parading down the street waving rainbow flags and making out on floats and forcing everyone in the city to watch it happen, and I don't agree with forcing people to go against their morals or their beliefs to marry gay couples. Because it's -forcing- one culture or one mindset onto someone else, which I personally feel is a greater injustice. (no I'm not opening the floor to a gay rights debate, I was simply making an example)
And by all means continue to judge if you feel you must because I shouldn't be forcing my mindset on anyone else either. I just feel it is disrespectful and inconsiderate not to take into account that the topic has nothing to do with our culture and the culture it has everything to do with is treated as though it doesn't matter simply because the issue happens to be taboo and questionable in our own.
I suck at explaining things clearly.
Quote from: Kipe on November 03, 2009, 10:46:42 PM
For some reason, I think you are me...
It's possible.
Quote from: Kipe on November 03, 2009, 10:46:42 PM
Quote from: grafikal on November 03, 2009, 06:30:45 PM
mm babies.
omg grafikal!
NO JOKE, I literally was going to say exactly that.
For some reason, I think you are me...
Nah, lots of people find babies delectable.