A plea to the 'intelligent" half of America RE: Homosexuality and Christianity

[tSwitch]

I never run into fierce opposition to gay marriage and religious evangelist here, and I'm at a CATHOLIC UNIVERSITY. The image of America that news networks like Fox and MSNBC paint aren't really accurate at all. You don't really know what it's like unless you live here, and even then you won't get the full picture.

There are plenty of people like that, trust me, I've run into my fair share

addendum: Here at Duquesne University, a Catholic University, every student IS required to take a course on religion.
I took Religion East & West, where we studied Hinduism, then Buddhism, and then Christianity, and drew detailed comparisons between the 3. A Catholic University, teaching Hinduism? How about that, eh? The teacher even brought in guest speakers, like a for-real Buddhist monk to teach us how to properly meditate, and a normal Hindu guy, to show us that Hindu's are NOT radicals/terrorists, but rather just normal people like us.

So really, where is all this hate and religious prosecution? Because I'm really not seeing it.

Nobody said it was everywhere, and I'm glad your University is open to things like that, but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist.  Look at what happened in California with Proposition 8 being reversed.  There's a lot of crap flying around and it's disheartening to know that there are people so blindly against giving civil rights to someone because they're intrinsically different.

[chewey]

@chewey: I'm fine with the idea of a theology class. If that's what gets creationism taught as well then so be it. I do however take offense to the idea of atheists teaching a theology class. One it's just illogical (it's like asking a gym teacher to teach Calculus) and two, there would be an incredible bias.

It's not illogical. Clearly a person like me would impose some sort of bias against religion, but the government attempted to weed out people like me. The subject has been a success in its test schools and the teachers have not shown any bias. The point of a theology class is not to preach, but to teach the facts of religion. Religion is a pretty big part of history (whether this is a good or bad thing is up for debate), and so it makes sense to me to teach the facts of as many religion as possible. I think an atheist is probably best suited for a job like this, really.

[SethTheMuse]

There's a lot going on in here. Both on topic and partially off. Felt the need to pop my two cents in, however...don't mind me.

I personally believe that the US should just allow same-sex marriages, then leave it up to the individual churches to decide if they want to facilitate them or not. That way, everyone gets what they want. The church leaders who don't want it in their places of worship don't have to and the people who want to marry their same-gendered significant other can do so. I'm also all for teaching theology classes. I've never been to one, personally, and felt like being taught creationism alongside things like the Big Bang and evolution would be kind of strange. It belongs, in my opinion, next to other religious-type material. And Arlen, that you go to a Catholic school with that level of comfort with other religious ideas is amazing to me. I wish every person/school/state/country were that tolerant.

This topic has a lot that relates to me, for various reasons. I have friends and family in the LGBT community, as well of being part of it myself. Some of my family are fairly strict Christians who would have a lot to say to me before deleting me from their lives. I've had friends ditch me for it as well. I've been lucky enough to have friends who would stick by me and not really mind what path I'm taking, as well as a mother who, despite occasional "it's just a phase" rants, seems to have stuck by me through my telling her.

I've seen both sides of this argument and I remain surprised at how much people bicker over something that's so simple...love is love, no matter who it's between, and it will always be that way. Alienating people will do nothing but cause suffering for those you may least expect. My grandparents are vocal against the same-sex marriage movement. My grandmother went so far as to say she was ashamed of her home state for allowing it. All they have managed to do so far is alienate me further to the point where I'm afraid to talk to them.

There's also the issue of transgenders to think of. The argument against them, by most Christians, has been mostly "God made you that way for a reason." God also made many children with illnesses or physical deformities that are 'fixed' by medical science. Is that wrong as well? Is replacing a failing kidney or heart with a prosthetic one wrong? What about people who have been injured and had a limb amputated? Should they get prosthetic ones? Just because you don't understand the reason why someone is undergoing surgery doesn't mean they shouldn't do it. And using God as your basis, or YOUR unease with the idea, against them as a reason why they shouldn't doesn't make sense.

[tSwitch]

I remain surprised at how much people bicker over something that's so simple...love is love

I think that about what it all boils down to.

[SirJackRex]

I agree with Arlen, as a Catholic, albeit barely practicing (I considered it divine intervention when I got sick the last time I went to church and ended up outside for half of it), but I barely hear of this religious zealously that a CANADIAN is telling us exists in the US.
Sure, it exists, I'm not denying it, however it should be noted that exactly as Arlen said, the US isn't just Fox News and the fact that you sum up an entire country in a so called Intelligent debate as being half smart and half stupid because they may be impartial, oppose or support gay marriage (33%?) is really quite annoying as a US citizen.

Anyhow, bullshit on Atheists teaching Theology. It should be taught by people who are actually interested in the subject itself for reasons other than opposing Religion.

[chewey]

Anyhow, bullshit on Atheists teaching Theology. It should be taught by people who are actually interested in the subject itself for reasons other than opposing Religion.

You haven't read a word I've said. It's very easy to find atheists who are interested in the subject itself - I'm one of them. You should know that theology is not about preaching religion. What it is about, is teaching history/culture and all that good stuff. It's not a question of whether God exists or not, so I don't see why an atheist would have any reason to oppose what's being taught at all. Do you honestly think the government would specifically hire these atheists AS TEACHERS if they thought these people would only give biased and uninformed opinions on the matter? No. They hired atheists to avoid bias entirely, since it seems much easier to them to find an atheist who has no preference for any one religion than finding a Christian who thinks equally of all religions.

[modern algebra]

I remain surprised at how much people bicker over something that's so simple...love is love

I think that about what it all boils down to.

And if religious people believed that love is all that marriage is about, then maybe they wouldn't oppose gay marriage Unfortunately, it's that very belief they oppose, so you might have a hard time. It seems a little pointless to say "if you defined marriage the same way we do, you wouldn't disagree with us!" - I am sure that most of the Christians who believe that love is the only or even the dominant purpose for marriage have no issue with gay marriage. (though then again, some of them are just bigots)

Also, I don't agree that atheists are any more likely to be unbiased than other religious people for teaching religion. I know more atheists who are disdainful of all religions than I do religious people who are disdainful of other religions. People who have faith in something are more likely to respect other people who have faith, even if their faith is in different things. I'm sure that there are plenty of atheists who could do a good job, but just from a statistical perspective I don't think they would generally do a better job.

[Holkeye]

I could never love a man enough to put my penus in his butthole.

[tSwitch]

And if religious people believed that love is all that marriage is about, then maybe they wouldn't oppose gay marriage Unfortunately, it's that very belief they oppose, so you might have a hard time. It seems a little pointless to say "if you defined marriage the same way we do, you wouldn't disagree with us!" - I am sure that most of the Christians who believe that love is the only or even the dominant purpose for marriage have no issue with gay marriage. (though then again, some of them are just bigots)

That's not entirely true Modern, gays have been killed by Christians because "god told me to" or just because they were gay at all, regardless of marriage state. 

It's just that marriage is the big deal here, that's what people are focusing on because it's what is being pushed.  This is a generalization and not to say it's true in all cases, but in general terms people who are against gay marriage are usually against homosexuality in the first place.

[modern algebra]

Well, maybe it's different in the States then. IDK but those people are dicks.

[Roph]

I could never love a man enough to put my penus in his butthole.

My dreams are shattered

[Zylos]

I could never love a man enough to put my penus in his butthole.

My dreams are shattered

Everyone's are. ;-;

[Holkeye]

Sorry guys. I love you and all, but not in that way.

[haloOfTheSun]

Don't worry, there's always mouths.

[SethTheMuse]

Poor Roph.

[firerain]

Thank you for dicking up my thread. Assholes.

[Irock]

This thread is still better than Canada.

[chewey]

Canada > US, jftr

[Irock]

Yeah, who wouldn't want to pay outrageous taxes, have terrible health care, have to wait years for the chance at getting a private doctor if you can even afford it, and live in the cold. :]

[haloOfTheSun]

Yeah, who wouldn't want to pay outrageous taxes, have terrible health care, have to wait years for the chance at getting a private doctor if you can even afford it, and live in the cold. :]

Yes, like he said: Canada > US

[Irock]

Fuck the US!!

[chewey]

Yeah, who wouldn't want to pay outrageous taxes, have terrible health care, have to wait years for the chance at getting a private doctor if you can even afford it, and live in the cold. :]

Taxes in Canada aren't any more "outrageous" than taxes in the US.
>Implying Canada's healthcare is worse than USA's healthcare.
When you have public healthcare, you don't see a private doctor. That's the point...

Plus, in Canada, you have same-sex marriage and faster internet.

[tSwitch]

same-sex marriage and faster internet.

where can I apply for citizenship eh?

[chewey]

Move to Sweden instead, like me 

[Esmeralda]

First move to a country in the EU that it's easier to get citizenship in. After that you have free access to all countries in the EU.