Fate v. Free Will

Are you of the opinion that our lives are played out like films? On one, unerring path, from start to finish? Do you believe that no matter what choices we make, these things were already laid out ahead of us like tracks for a train?

Or are you convinced that we are the masters of circumstance, and that our choices are owned by what comes of us afterward? That there is no ending to possibility because life is in our control?

I want to hear what you think, and then I'll post what I feel on the subject.

I think we all are set on one path of what's expected in society to the point we are treated almost like slaves... Let me explain.

Money is a Man made control method.

You need money to buy what you need to live

To get money you need to work...

There by making us controlable, and to that extent much of your life is out of your control.

You get to choose your Job (To a degree) and you get to choose your friends etc... You have a loose sense of control, but your not truly free from a system that's in place to control you.

This system has been fashioned throughout time, and the people that control it are not the heads of state and the people you see in the media, the people that control it are those who don't need Money in the same way we do, they get money as if it grew on tree's, they are the heads of the European Commission and the people at the top and behind the stock market and those that run our banks and financial systems... They control us, we are their Cogs in a what is essentially a machine.

Their are people that go against this system, travellers, hippies, Gypsy's, tramps, hermits etc... But they are persecuted and treated like scum... And forced in other ways to live in a way that doesn't show true freedom.

Your with the system or against the system, either way your controlled and your not truly free... The European Commission owns the world... and soon they will come forward and declare the New World Order and then yo will see the true picture and scale of their power.

Free Will is no-longer Free, Your Fate to be the best Cog you can be... Unless your born Illuminati...

LOL    LOL

Now my real answer.

You control your fate, your destiny, what you leave behind to the next generation... You are what ever you make your self to be... What is right and what is wrong is only an opinion... Who you are for real, only you know that, therefore you control your self and your future.

I would like to believe that I am the master of my own destiny, and not controlled by a predetermined life.  I like what you said about the new world order, and there isn't as many lol in it as you might think.

I hate being on the fence, but its best way to explain my answer.

The choices you make, even very small, controls other people choices.
And sometimes, things out of our control, (weather, deaths) controls our choices.

So it's both 

It's hard to say really
On one hand, we always make our own choices, and have the freedom to do anything, wether it be right or wrong.
On the other hand, one small choice can make a huge difference on the choices to come, and even though you have
a chance to turn away from the events you yourself have set in motion, you don't, for whatever reason.
Presonally, I don't think that our lifes are laid out before us.... there is no such thing as a predetermened destiny,
but there is a predictable path that you can see once an event is set in motion
e.g you mug and kill someone - you can either chose to give in and admit, and hopefully shorten your sentence, or to run, and hope to get away
- if you pick the first one, you are bound to spend atleast a decade in prison
- if you pick the second one, your time might increase as you try ever so desperately to avoid consequences, and yet you can give up at any time

Does anyone see what I mean?

I believe that every person have the ability not just to change his/her's own fate; but also the fate all others.
So to make it simple, every person have the drive to do stuff that is in his/her own free will and that shapes fate.

My pick:Both.

Well, choosing both is a bit like saying "I believe we make our own fate, except when we don't."

Every choice that I have made has led me down the path to who and where I am today. I think that if I would've made different choices in my life, I would have a different attitude, different ideals, and follow a different moral compass. Thus making me a different person. In 10 years I hope to not be the same person that I am today. I also feel that if I look back on my life and call it "the path I took", then that assumes that there is a "path I have yet to take." Thus making fate a reality for me. I have the freedom to choose my every action only for the "now" that said action occurs during. In my beliefs, there is really no past or future. These are just ideas. The only true reality is right now.

I tend to look at everything with an objective eye, so its hard for me to explain exactly how I feel in a way that others will understand.

"the problem is choice" - the matrix

So obviously we have a choice,,or at least an illusion that there is a choice

The question is,,WHY do we choose what we choose,,if it's because of our genes,,or nature,,or mindset,,then is it REALLY our free will at work?

I think that the actions and events that befall me are directly related to the actions I take. Sure once in a while a god might make a person who the god PLANNED a certain destiny for, and gave them powers, signs, and maybe spoke to them, but ultimately even that person could still make their own path. (My religion contains multiple gods.) I believe that an average person (as in no super human abilities) chooses their own path. My life isn't preset. I'm not just some actor. I decide what happens to me. Sometimes things that others do can influence what I do, but ultimately, I make my own path, I react my own way. I do not believe that time travel is possible, because I only believe that the present exists. I do not believe that there are clones of us in every single moment in the past, and the future, and therefore there cannot be timetravel to the future especially, because the future has not been made yet.

So in a nutshell, I don't believe that any time other than right now currently exists. The past USED to exist, when it was the present. The future WILL exist, when it becomes the present, but only the present exists. Therefore, a destiny has not been set for me, and my life was not predetermined.

So THAT'S what I think. Of course I don't boast to "know" anything, this is all just what I BELIEVE.

And yes, I think it's free will, because I believe the person has a spirit, that ultimately has total control, although it can be influenced by chemicals sent to the brian it currently possesses, it can still override those fairly easily, and decide. And when we do something out of instinct or character, THAT'S our spirit overriding our brian.

Time travel, magic "powers" and Gods speaking to humans have nothing to do with reality. The problem with your post is that you are speaking of some fantasy land. I'm not judging your spiritual beliefs, because lord knows mine are pretty whacked out too, but maybe you need to set up camp in the real world.

Fate is just the end product of our effort using our free will.
It's not being controlled by higher power, or anything "spiritual" but it's only ourselves determining the boundaries of our own actions.

,,but if there is something interfering with your choice,,then the choice wasn't made freely.

interferences may be external,,or internal.  If you think about it,,every choice you ever make is influenced by some sort of interference.  Therefore free will is just an illusion.

,,but if there is something interfering with your choice,,then the choice wasn't made freely.

interferences may be external,,or internal.  If you think about it,,every choice you ever make is influenced by some sort of interference.  Therefore free will is just an illusion.

Seems like that doesn't it?
It's like I said, you believe you have free will, but the circumstances make you act different

,,but if there is something interfering with your choice,,then the choice wasn't made freely.

interferences may be external,,or internal.  If you think about it,,every choice you ever make is influenced by some sort of interference.  Therefore free will is just an illusion.

Seems like that doesn't it?
It's like I said, you believe you have free will, but the circumstances make you act different

I'm sorry to tell you this, but you're wrong. The word "Illusion" itself in virtual, there's no such thing.
We live in a "virtual" world.

Money is virtual.
Internet is virtual.
Law is virtual.
Even language is also virtual.
They're not real, but consider them real.
"Illusion?", not quite.


As for your 'Interferences', it's just the end product of OTHER people's free will. Other people made law, made work, made boundaries, and made intereferences. However far they are, they MADE a difference.

The things you listed aren't virtual, they are relative.

Something must exist to be relative, but its meaning is dictated by the current situation at hand. An illusion is an idea. An idea does not exist. Free will and fate are also ideas. This adds a whole other layer of abstraction to the whole question.

The things you listed aren't virtual, they are relative.

Something must exist to be relative, but its meaning is dictated by the current situation at hand. An illusion is an idea. An idea does not exist. Free will and fate are also ideas. This adds a whole other layer of abstraction to the whole question.

Great.
Everything is logically connected.

The things you listed aren't virtual, they are relative.

Something must exist to be relative, but its meaning is dictated by the current situation at hand. An illusion is an idea. An idea does not exist. Free will and fate are also ideas. This adds a whole other layer of abstraction to the whole question.

Great.
Everything is logically connected.

Sarcasm Leventhan?

The things you listed aren't virtual, they are relative.

Something must exist to be relative, but its meaning is dictated by the current situation at hand. An illusion is an idea. An idea does not exist. Free will and fate are also ideas. This adds a whole other layer of abstraction to the whole question.

Great.
Everything is logically connected.

Sarcasm Leventhan?

I didn't use the sarcastic smiley, so no.
What I meant in the phrase "Great" is how great Holkeye's post is.
Not "Great" as in "Great, you spilled hot glue to my pants."

The things you listed aren't virtual, they are relative.

Something must exist to be relative, but its meaning is dictated by the current situation at hand. An illusion is an idea. An idea does not exist. Free will and fate are also ideas. This adds a whole other layer of abstraction to the whole question.

Great.
Everything is logically connected.

Sarcasm Leventhan?

I didn't use the sarcastic smiley, so no.
What I meant in the phrase "Great" is how great Holkeye's post is.
Not "Great" as in "Great, you spilled hot glue to my pants."

Oh, I see, it sounded sarcastic, so I just wondered.

But, this topic is pretty much personal belief, unless someone somehow found something that could prove that everything we do is fate or free will.

Time travel, magic "powers" and Gods speaking to humans have nothing to do with reality. The problem with your post is that you are speaking of some fantasy land. I'm not judging your spiritual beliefs, because lord knows mine are pretty whacked out too, but maybe you need to set up camp in the real world.

You just don't get it. I'm saying that our lives are not predetermined, and backing it up by saying timetravel can't happen because the future isn't predetermined, and the past no longer exists. That's what I was trying to back up with all of that. Honestly, I mean, come on.

You're wrong though, because technically we are "time travelling into the future" because we are never staying still. Time, like the things in an older post of mine, is an idea.

You should read some books.

Time travel IS scientifically possible.  When you accelerate an atom to move at the speed of light, it decays a lot slower,,thus proving that time for that atom moves relatively slower than our time.  Technically speaking,,that atom just "travelled" into the future.  You can,,umm,,I guess OBSERVE that effect at any particle accelerator site.

There are other ways to time travel,,but they are way too theoretical.

Also,,time is an abstract notion,,rather than thinking about it as a chronological timeline,,think of it as a variable.

For example, you don't just exist at present time, today.  You also exist at a point two years ago,,you also exist at a point 10 years ago,,you exist in many places [timewise] at once.

Time is relative, like Holk said.

Time travel, magic "powers" and Gods speaking to humans have nothing to do with reality. The problem with your post is that you are speaking of some fantasy land. I'm not judging your spiritual beliefs, because lord knows mine are pretty whacked out too, but maybe you need to set up camp in the real world.

You just don't get it. I'm saying that our lives are not predetermined, and backing it up by saying timetravel can't happen because the future isn't predetermined, and the past no longer exists. That's what I was trying to back up with all of that. Honestly, I mean, come on.

The past doesn't exist if you think about it, the past is an idea or a group of thoughts and memories.
If you didn't know the word "Past", would you know that it existed (not the word, but the past), and how would you know what it was? It would just be memories.

Also,,time is an abstract notion,,rather than thinking about it as a chronological timeline,,think of it as a variable.

For example, you don't just exist at present time, today.  You also exist at a point two years ago,,you also exist at a point 10 years ago,,you exist in many places [timewise] at once.

I agree with that, but that doesn't prove that the past exists. I think of time like pictures, every instant....but that doesn't prove the past exists either, if they're all there, and all at the same time, and you exist at the same time at once, than what is the past?

The discussion changed into the topic about time?

yes,,lev,,the topic has slightly changed,,lol,,but that's because it's all a part of the whole.  If we can predict/know the future,,then we might as well conclude that predestination is real.

Moving on.....
No,,that fact doesn't prove that the past exists,,however,,there r no proofs that past the doesn't exist either.

Just like trying to prove whether aliens exist or not.  It's much easier to prove that they exist (all it takes is one real sighting/encounter) than to prove that aliens don't exist (because how do you go around to proving something like that?).  So naturally,,we assume that aliens exist.

And naturally,,we should also assume that the past [or rather every single point in the past] does exist in,,oh i donno,,some parallel dimension(s).

And since the past exists,,so must the future.