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Conspiracy theories - What do you make of them ?

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Not if the winner's illiterate (no, really).
Quote from: Elegy
It's fucking sad that you and the cat can't stick to the subject and even attempt to defend your little bullshit religion without jumping to personal attacks, maybe thats because evolution is such a stupid idea it's hard to back it up with any claims pertaining to reality.

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I wonder why LoS hasn't responded to me yet

I also find your comments fairly LOL...

I guess we are on different wave length's...

I mean this comment:-
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I hate when people say that, what, next you're going to say I'm the next Hitler (and by extension the Antichrist).

Hitler to me was a man with a vision with the guts to attempt to do some thing he felt passionally about, even though it was wrong, his reasoning and writtings almost gets you to see things from his perspective, some thing you have not done in any of your posts, you raise some interesting debate, but at the same time tend to answer with abrupt attacks with no real cause or backing like a playground kid... I wouldn't liken you to the Antichrist, the Antichrist is supposedly a fallen angel, and that would have placed you closer to God than most could dream of.

If I was to liken you to any one it would be any teenager who hasn't lived yet, me when I was 14 may be.

It's like this comment:-
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Not if the winner's illiterate (no, really).

An attempt at being funny...? I don't see it that way... The winners always write history as they see it, I wonder how the war on terror will be written up in Iraq and the USA and how different the two will be ?

irish-warrior - Is a pretty good debater... So are you Seaking... When your not trying to score a point from me... Debating isn't about winning its about sharing idea's and opinions...

I welcome change of my line of thinking... to be unwavering makes you narrow minded.

So I take this oppertunity if for what ever reason I have offened you to say sorry... in a hope that you will debate rather than confront in agression.

If you want to continue trying to score points off me, carry on... it's not bothering me, it's just causing a mini argueement between you and yourself in every thread.
 


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Hitler to me was a man with a vision with the guts to attempt to do some thing he felt passionally about, even though it was wrong, his reasoning and writtings almost gets you to see things from his perspective, some thing you have not done in any of your posts, you raise some interesting debate, but at the same time tend to answer with abrupt attacks with no real cause or backing like a playground kid... I wouldn't liken you to the Antichrist, the Antichrist is supposedly a fallen angel, and that would have placed you closer to God than most could dream of.
I was referring to how many people believed that Hitler was the Antichrist (man, the Allied propagandists must've loved that!)

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If I was to liken you to any one it would be any teenager who hasn't lived yet, me when I was 14 may be.
I can only imagine how retarded you were at that age.

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An attempt at being funny...? I don't see it that way... The winners always write history as they see it, I wonder how the war on terror will be written up in Iraq and the USA and how different the two will be ?
Wh..what?
No, it's not an attempt at being funny. The Mongols, Hyksos (although I guess these were losers in the end), and some other winners didn't write their own histories- they were illiterate.

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irish-warrior - Is a pretty good debater... So are you Seaking... When your not trying to score a point from me... Debating isn't about winning its about sharing idea's and opinions...
No, he isn't.

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I welcome change of my line of thinking... to be unwavering makes you narrow minded.
I'm far from unwavering, I simply am far from convinced by anything in this thread and many related threads because the arguments and viewpoints I attack so much are generally absolutely baseless and so out-there that I have no idea where anyone could've gotten those ideas, much less believed them and felt confident enough to bring them up in an "intelligent debate" forum.

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So I take this oppertunity if for what ever reason I have offened you to say sorry... in a hope that you will debate rather than confront in agression.
Have I not? Even within the past hour?
Quote from: Elegy
It's fucking sad that you and the cat can't stick to the subject and even attempt to defend your little bullshit religion without jumping to personal attacks, maybe thats because evolution is such a stupid idea it's hard to back it up with any claims pertaining to reality.

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Hitler to me was a man with a vision with the guts to attempt to do some thing he felt passionally about, even though it was wrong, his reasoning and writtings almost gets you to see things from his perspective, some thing you have not done in any of your posts, you raise some interesting debate, but at the same time tend to answer with abrupt attacks with no real cause or backing like a playground kid... I wouldn't liken you to the Antichrist, the Antichrist is supposedly a fallen angel, and that would have placed you closer to God than most could dream of.
I was referring to how many people believed that Hitler was the Antichrist (man, the Allied propagandists must've loved that!)

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If I was to liken you to any one it would be any teenager who hasn't lived yet, me when I was 14 may be.
I can only imagine how retarded you were at that age.

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An attempt at being funny...? I don't see it that way... The winners always write history as they see it, I wonder how the war on terror will be written up in Iraq and the USA and how different the two will be ?
Wh..what?
No, it's not an attempt at being funny. The Mongols, Hyksos (although I guess these were losers in the end), and some other winners didn't write their own histories- they were illiterate.

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irish-warrior - Is a pretty good debater... So are you Seaking... When your not trying to score a point from me... Debating isn't about winning its about sharing idea's and opinions...
No, he isn't.

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I welcome change of my line of thinking... to be unwavering makes you narrow minded.
I'm far from unwavering, I simply am far from convinced by anything in this thread and many related threads because the arguments and viewpoints I attack so much are generally absolutely baseless and so out-there that I have no idea where anyone could've gotten those ideas, much less believed them and felt confident enough to bring them up in an "intelligent debate" forum.

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So I take this oppertunity if for what ever reason I have offened you to say sorry... in a hope that you will debate rather than confront in agression.
Have I not? Even within the past hour?


what is your problem with me? do u have some kind of sad chip on your shoulder? or do u like the attention?


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Have I not? Even within the past hour?

You have called me a retard 3 times in the last hour... I think the one above was the 3rd... :-
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I can only imagine how retarded you were at that age.

Called IW a troll and insulted his Mum...

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I'm far from unwavering, I simply am far from convinced by anything in this thread and many related threads because the arguments and viewpoints I attack so much are generally absolutely baseless and so out-there that I have no idea where anyone could've gotten those ideas, much less believed them and felt confident enough to bring them up in an "intelligent debate" forum.

One word:- theories

Not reality... OK... U N D E R S T A N D....

I thought a thread that would be pretty much open ended... would be a great debate... I enjoyed the Hitler debate, you raised some interesting points so did IW I mean he started it.
 


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the Devil's Triangle

    During the past century more than 50 ships and 20 aircraft sailed into oblivion in the area known as the Devil's Triangle, Bermuda Triangle, Hoodoo Sea, or a host of other names.

    Exactly what happened to the ships and aircraft is not known. Most disappeared without a trace. Few distress calls and little, if any, debris signaled their disappearance.

    Size of the triangle is dictated by whoever happens to be writing about it, and consequently what ships and the number lost depends largely on which article you read.

    Vincent Gaddis, credited with putting the triangle "on the map" in a 1964 Argosy feature, described the triangle as extending from Florida to Bermuda, southwest to Puerto Rico and back to Florida through the Bahamas. Another author puts the apexes of the triangle somewhere in Virginia, on the western coast of Bermuda and around Cuba, Dominican Republic and Puerto Rico. Sizes of the areas described ranged from 500,000 to 1.5 million square miles.

    Whatever the size or shape, there supposedly is some inexplicable force within it that causes ships and planes to vanish.


what is really happening?


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You have called me a retard 3 times in the last hour... I think the one above was the 3rd... :-
I said nice things too. Or at least I did if replying to you like a not-idiot counts as nice. Cuz you actually aren't always retarded! Mostly just in threads like this or about ghosts.

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Called IW a troll and insulted his Mum...
Wrong. I asked if he was a troll, it's a perfectly legitimate question; and I didn't insult his mum. It's perfectly fine if a woman wants to have her drink, but if she does it whilst pregnant she's bound to fuck him up.

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One word:- theories
Theories require plausbility and evidence also. It's what distinguishes hypotheses and theories from ideas.


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I thought a thread that would be pretty much open ended... would be a great debate... I enjoyed the Hitler debate, you raised some interesting points so did IW I mean he started it.
I seemed to have ended that discussion right off that bat.

Also, Bermuda's Triangle (that's what us civilized Americans call it) isn't a conspiracy theory and also wasn't that disproven already :/
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It's fucking sad that you and the cat can't stick to the subject and even attempt to defend your little bullshit religion without jumping to personal attacks, maybe thats because evolution is such a stupid idea it's hard to back it up with any claims pertaining to reality.

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Seaking   - What Conspiracy Theory, if any, do think holds a little interest ?

Your great at trying to disprove things... I want to see how good you are at trying to push an idea...

I see lots of people on here rather than using their own idea's just quoting others and going by and swallowing what's taught from text books... Some times things are not black and white... It only takes a few what ifs then you have a Conspiracy theory.

Like the Death of Princess Diana... or Bruce Lee not being in his grave...

It just takes the seed of distrust and boom...

There has to be some thing you distrust, or feel to be false in documented history ?
 


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the Devil's Triangle

    During the past century more than 50 ships and 20 aircraft sailed into oblivion in the area known as the Devil's Triangle, Bermuda Triangle, Hoodoo Sea, or a host of other names.

    Exactly what happened to the ships and aircraft is not known. Most disappeared without a trace. Few distress calls and little, if any, debris signaled their disappearance.

    Size of the triangle is dictated by whoever happens to be writing about it, and consequently what ships and the number lost depends largely on which article you read.

[...]

what is really happening?

I managed to catch the clock at 10:23 all the time on accident. It's not really. I have a friend who's birthday is October 23, so I think of the date whenever I see the time. I've managed to filter out all the other times I check the time, and continue to build a pattern. I'm not being lucky nor am I being psychic: My brain's just filtering out irrelevant information. There's no pattern, it's built on probability: I have a 1/12 chance of it being 10th o'clock, and I have a 1/60th chance that it'll be the 23rd minute. If I check the clock at random intervals, such as once every 2-3 minutes, I still have a great chance of seeing 10:23 during that hour.

People who believe in the Bermuda Triangle are doing the same. They're ignoring all the other boats sinking, all the other planes crashing, and they blithely ignore the frequency of traffic in that area compared to other parts. They only focus on what happens in the Bermuda triangle because their minds are developing a pattern, one that doesn't tangibly exist.

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Now that's a strong argument. I wish I could see more of that in here.

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I have no conspiracy theories I have any interest in.
Quote from: Elegy
It's fucking sad that you and the cat can't stick to the subject and even attempt to defend your little bullshit religion without jumping to personal attacks, maybe thats because evolution is such a stupid idea it's hard to back it up with any claims pertaining to reality.

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stupid

It's already been proven that the Antarctic Ice cap's are only 4,000 years old (if that)...

especially this
« Last Edit: July 20, 2007, 12:35:20 AM by Saladin »

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OK Sorry 400 bc the Anartic had no Ice plain:- http://rmrk.net/index.php/topic,18868.0.html

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This chart is signed by Piri Reis, an admiral of the Turkish navy in 1513.
His high rank granted him access to the royal library of Constantinopel. In his notes he explains that he drew this chart using ancient charts he found in the library dating from 400 BC and before.
His chart shows the westcoast of Africa, the northern coast of Antarctica and the east coast of south America.

Only 4% of Antarctica is Rock, the rest is Ice:- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antarctica

Here's a statement that shows large portions can melt and refreeze in the space of a year:-
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As in the Arctic regions, there have been effects on Antarctica attributed to global warming. In 2005, a mass of ice comparable in size to the U.S. state of California briefly melted and refroze. This may have resulted from temperatures rising to as high as 41 degrees Fahrenheit (5 Celsius). The U.S. space agency NASA reports this as being the most significant Antarctic melting in the past 30 years.[41]

The Bronze Age lasted a very long time and during the bronze age for 40 years the temperature of the planet was MUCH (Lows of 41 degree's) hotter than it is today... From the Piri Reis Map towards the end of this hot period the Antartic Ice was not mapped...

So let me rephrase myself the Ice cap's as we Know them are 4,000 years old if that...

Should the amount of Ice that's there now remelt (100%) the sea level will rise by 200 feet approx.  The Sea level wont remain at that level, the Ice Caps will reform... If people lived without hinder in the Bronze age I would imagine those same area's will be unaffected when the Melt happens again... We had a mini Ice age not too long ago in history... It's cycles, we can't stop it from happening, and that's why I think Global warming is a Conspiracy Theory.

I might be wrong... I am no scientist, all I have done is read evidence and looked at maps... So If I am wrong it's not being stupid it's misinterpretation.
« Last Edit: July 20, 2007, 12:35:08 PM by landofshadows »
 


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Can you explain why ?...

Unless I am shown other wise I will continue to make my self looks stupid... HELP !!!

Watch the video in this thread provided by Silverline:- http://rmrk.net/index.php/topic,18351.0.html
« Last Edit: July 20, 2007, 06:43:55 PM by landofshadows »
 


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JFK was assassinated for planning to tell the American public about what he saw at Area51, CIA, not a lone nut gunman.

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JFK was assassinated for planning to tell the American public about what he saw at Area51

What documentation/links do you have to support this theory ?
 


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OK Sorry 400 bc the Anartic had no Ice plain:- http://rmrk.net/index.php/topic,18868.0.html

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This chart is signed by Piri Reis, an admiral of the Turkish navy in 1513.
His high rank granted him access to the royal library of Constantinopel. In his notes he explains that he drew this chart using ancient charts he found in the library dating from 400 BC and before.
His chart shows the westcoast of Africa, the northern coast of Antarctica and the east coast of south America.

[...]

I might be wrong... I am no scientist, all I have done is read evidence and looked at maps... So If I am wrong it's not being stupid it's misinterpretation.

It's a stupid misinterpretation.

Actual people who do exist who hold credible degrees and do thinking note thus: There are errors on the map. Specifically that there are many rivers that have been reduplicated and that the Caribbean is rotated 90 degrees. Hapgood argues that Piri Reis was compiling from multiple maps, some of which may have been drawn on a polar projection, or perhaps that he compiled some components on a different compass on the same map--something of an overlay, which was not uncommon for maps to have during that time.

This does not consist of a credible statement that Antarctica lacked ice 4,000 years ago. A map that was drawn from multiple sources, which may in itself have been drawn from multiple sources, is bound to have errors. Manuscripts have the same problem, and it is certainly probable that you can trace back the source of errors by comparing the errors, we have no other copies to compare in this instance.

The only credible evidence we have is empirical evidence: geography. If we can extract a mummified body from the frozen wastes of Antarctica and carbon date it, and it's a tropical creature, and it's 4 000 years +/- 1 000 years, then I might start to believe it. But we haven't. What we have found are dinosaur bones.

Secondly, the ice age argument: 6% (which does not sound like an accurate figure but a number pulled out of a hat) of Antarctica is above-sea level rock. If all the ice melted, did not displace a single ounce, and the weight of the ice being lifted out did not cause the plate to rise up (as the plate is weighed down by the ice), then that would still hold true. Fun fact: If the northern pole melts completely, then no water would get displaced. Ice displaces its own volume in water when placed in water. Problem: The planet is symmetrical with points on which the planet rotates: If it gets warmer on one pole, the other pole will get warmer too. The north pole warming is a good indication the south pole may warm up too. If the ice melts in Antarctica, the weight will relieve the pressure, the landmass may then end up displacing a LOT of water.

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Oh, I thought ID was not ID anymore, I thought it was just pointless arguing.
As long as I've been here it has been like this. I also think it's incredibly lol that you say this, and that now the forum is called "Elitist Debate". The wit never ends!
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It's fucking sad that you and the cat can't stick to the subject and even attempt to defend your little bullshit religion without jumping to personal attacks, maybe thats because evolution is such a stupid idea it's hard to back it up with any claims pertaining to reality.

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It's a stupid misinterpretation.

I guess you read the reply from the team of Scientists that studied the map then...?

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C. It is our opinion that the accuracy of the cartographic features shown in the Oronteus Fineaus [sic] Map ( AD 1530 ) suggests, beyond a doubt, that it also was compiled from accurate source maps of Antarctica, but in this case of the entire continent. Close examination has proved the original source maps must have been compiled at a time when the land mass and inland waterways of the continent were relatively free of ice. This conclusion is further supported by a comparison of the Oronteus Finneaus [sic] Map with the results obtained by International Geophysical Year teams in their measurements of the subglacial topography. The comparison also suggests that the original source maps ( compiled in remote antiquity ) were prepared when Antarctica was presumably free of ice. The Cordiform projection used by Oronteus Fineaus [sic] suggests the use of advanced mathematics. Further, the shape given to the Antarctic continent suggests the possibility, if not the probability, that the original source maps were compiled on a stereographic or gnomonic type of projection ( involving the use of spherical trigonometry ).

Now these are Scientists not some Internet Forum dude with an self proclaimed name... To say my interpretation is a stupid one Is fairly unfair (Many people have studied the maps in question and they all came to the same conclusion), the people who made those maps knew the sea's and they happend to be their at that given time, I would rather follow what they have drawn and what scientists and map specialists are saying, unless you find evidence showing the opposite from equally acclaimed specialists... Ponds Freeze in cold conditions, they then unfreeze when its warms up... What if every 4,000 years or so the world does that... just like our seasons do... Our green house gases only count for 2% of those damaging the Ozone and causing Global warming... The Globe is getting warmer, but I say its down to natural events.  For example the mini ice age, when the Theme's in London froze...
 


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JFK was assassinated for planning to tell the American public about what he saw at Area51, CIA, not a lone nut gunman.



JFK assasination theorys

1. JFK was killed by an angry member of the disbanded KKK

2.Lee Harvey Oswald killed John f Kennedy

3.The mafia killed JFK

4.The KGB killed JFK

5."JFK was trying to kill Castro castro struck first"

6.Isrealis killed JFK for his sympathy with Arabs, and use of former nazis in the american rocket program




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It's a stupid misinterpretation.

I guess you read the reply from the team of Scientists that studied the map then...?

I did, and I did a little bit of research behind that "team of Scientists."

1). Captain Lorenzo W.Burroughs was a cartographer for the USAF. He was by no means a "scientist." Him and his team came to an unusual conclusion in 1964 which ended up in Charles Hapgood's book, "Maps of Ancient Sea Kings," a book which is used to argue for an ancient maritime empire, i.e. Atlantis. Hapgood notes the compilation techniques of these maps, how they are taken from different sources, translated free-handedly from different projections, use alternate compasses, and contain errors. Weirdly enough, however, Hapgood was not trying to argue global warming or ice caps in his book. He was trying to find where Atlantis was.

2). The sources of the map are never called into question in any argument I have found. Which is unusual, when a medieval manuscript contains unusual discrepancies, scholarly bodies tend to compare the manuscript with another, its source, &c. The map, according to Piri, was drawn from 8 Ptolomeic Maps, an Arabic map of India, and 4 Portuguese maps, and a map by Christopher Columbus, among others. That leaves 5 maps unaccounted for. Of course, it doesn't matter: Antarctica being represented on the map is a controversial issue; there is no agreement in the scholarly community on whether or not it is Antarctica being on the map. We lack the source maps, their sources or credibilities. We also know of of mistakes that early cartographers have made.

Of course, scholarly methods, analytical deduction, comparative historics--none of these have a place in conspiracy theories. Because these are all logical ways of filtering incorrect conclusions which are based on hunches. Lord knows we don't want silly things like facts to get in the way of truth.

Modern scholars see the southern landmass to be the southern portion of South America, the islands near the Falkland islands. Internal evidence suggests it. The skewing may have been from the awareness of a southern landmass that was never accurately mapped or a bad translation from a polar projection map.

3). No credible scientist has ever made the argument that you're making now. People, who are not scientists, who have analyzed the map 40 years ago have made an assumption and did believe that the map accurately represents Antarctica. This view is not held today. Only amateurs and people with "ideas" about "truth" argue that this map is 100% representational of the world in the 16th century and use fringe evidence which lies outside of the accepted field of scholarly studies and geographical facts.
« Last Edit: July 21, 2007, 11:16:23 PM by voice of reason »

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The CIA were involved in the JFK hit, that is a dominant theory.

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The CIA were involved in the JFK hit, that is a dominant theory.



there was no once off JFK hit it was a campaign thats lasted months it  took 3 parts he was nearly killed twice by the same assasions when he visited ireland and foreign police forces arent allowed arms in the republic so that rules out the CIA
« Last Edit: July 22, 2007, 01:03:53 PM by irish-warrior »