Sightings of Plesiosaurs world over your opinions or sightings ?

Do you think the Lochness Monster could be real ?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loch_Ness_Monster

There have been sightings of Plesiosaurs world over...

North Carolina in 1970. The corpse

http://www.accuracyingenesis.com/plesios.html

More images of dead ones found near New Zealand:-
http://www.mbowden.surf3.net/plsfin13.htm

Pictures through out History around the world:-
http://www.subversiveelement.com/Plesiosaurs1.html

Could it be that Plesiosaurs could still be alive today, like the coelacanth fish, thought to have lived and died out around the same time, now found alive and a fair few of them at that...?

i believe in it, but im not actually saying its real, theres not enough evidence to back this up, and so says the GOV'T who trys to cover up evidence of intelligent life 

I truely beleive that the Loch Ness Monster is some sort of evolved, or pymgy plesiosaur.  I don't think, however, that pictures of "globsters" as they are called, are plesiosaur corpses (not most of them anyway).  When a shark dies, the bottom half of its jaw is always the first thing to rot off, making it have the appearance of a large bodied creature, with a long neck.  How could that not account for a "plesiosaur" corpse?  I think that there are thousands of creatures in the ocean that we have not yet documented.

I agree with Bio. A lot is possible when it comes to the sea.

The Loch Ness Monster has never really been anything I believed existed. Well, that whole urban legend anyway. However, a creature similar to that existing isn't really too far-fetched. I'm sure there are all sorts of things underwater that exist that we have no idea is there.

Sure, but I doubt we'd miss the fucking Loch Ness Monster after all this searching.
They kind of died out millions of years ago, if they hadn't we would've noticed more populations of plesiosaurs as of late.
I used to be into cryptozoology, but even then I didn't accept such things as Nessie and Bigfoot. If there are any cryptids worth talking about its the more obscure ones from credible sources.

How can you possibly say that bigfoot does not exist, it is the cryptid with BY far the most evidence, I don't care how credible the source is.  The loch ness monster, (plesiosaurs), died out millions of years ago, you say?  So did the coelacanth, until 1998 when it was finally noticed to still be alive. 

How can you possibly say that bigfoot does not exist, it is the cryptid with BY far the most evidence, I don't care how credible the source is.  The loch ness monster, (plesiosaurs), died out millions of years ago, you say?  So did the coelacanth, until 1998 when it was finally noticed to still be alive. 

It takes at most 30 seconds to find out that coelacanth was rediscovered in 1938.

Nessie killer: if the Loch Ness monster was real there would have to be a population viable enough to last for 65 million years. If there were 100 pleisosaurs in the lake at any one time then people would see them surface for air every day.

The coelacanth isn't a good creature to compare to pleisosaurs. One breaths air, the other breathes water. One is big by fish standards, the other is just big. One lives deep in the water, the other surfaces regularly. Which one would you expect to be found first?

Saladin raises a very good point... I guess I am being overly hope-full... (Surface was a cool TV show...)

I think Halo also rasies a good point, there could be creatures simular, like a long necked turtle or some thing ?

The coelacanth isn't a good creature to compare to pleisosaurs. One breaths air, the other breathes water. One is big by fish standards, the other is just big. One lives deep in the water, the other surfaces regularly. Which one would you expect to be found first?

If there were a modern plesiosaur, there's no way you could know if it has gone through some kind of evolution, just like most other animals. Who's to say it wouldn't breathe underwater?

Holkeye - Some people that reported seeing these sea creatures state it looked like a seal, but larger with a long neck... Plesiosaurs are reptile's to a degree, aquatic marine reptiles...

I would like to think they did make it I mean crocodiles did...?

There are many kinds of Pesiosaurs... some would be more hardy than others... But I still think Saladin is correct, they would have to surface, and it's not like they are small creatures, I think we would have seen more of them... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plesiosaur

Nessie killer: if the Loch Ness monster was real there would have to be a population viable enough to last for 65 million years. If there were 100 pleisosaurs in the lake at any one time then people would see them surface for air every day.

Actually, what Holk said is right, and it has been proven.  Many plesiousaur skeletons have been found that have a hole on the top of their skull, probably for breathing, so all they have to do is graze the top of the water, you could be 5 feet away and notice nothing.  Same as the theory that was put forth, that said that there wouldn't even be enough fish to support 1 plesiosaur, until sonar scans and we found that 300 could be supported.  And another reason they might not be seen as often, is the underwater tunnels that supposedly connect the loch to the ocean.

Actually, what Holk said is right, and it has been proven.  Many plesiousaur skeletons have been found that have a hole on the top of their skull, probably for breathing, so all they have to do is graze the top of the water, you could be 5 feet away and notice nothing.  Same as the theory that was put forth, that said that there wouldn't even be enough fish to support 1 plesiosaur, until sonar scans and we found that 300 could be supported.  And another reason they might not be seen as often, is the underwater tunnels that supposedly connect the loch to the ocean.

Brilliant... My faith in the Nessy has returned... Thanks Bio

Both sides of this debate have good argueements for and against... I want to hold hope that one day we will find a creature of myth and ledgend alive and kicking... It will open so much more to the way we look at our own planet...

Imagine if we did find a few of these creatures alive today, what changes that would bring about... I mean for a start off Christians would have to re-write their bibles...LOL

mmm... yeah... lets not get religion into this. Besides, if nessie did actually exist, it'd be dead by now, because if you look at it, the first sighting of nessie was a looooooooong time ago, when a priest put nessie to halt when it was attacking a man. It all really depends on the life span of the plesiosaur. Yeah sure, people 'thought' they saw nessie, but most of those photos are fake, for example, the one with the long neck, is a toy sauropod (Sauropods were the ones with long necks, lived on land, and were herbivores). Also, if nessie existed, we would be able to find animal droppings on the lake bed. to prove nessie doesnt exist, we'd have to look at food levels (such as fish, reptiles, any thing of the like) before nessie was spotted, and after she was spotted.

and opposed to the ceolacanth, im sure other fish died out millions of years ago 

I'd post some pictures, but sorry, my aquaphobia obstructs my viewing of underwater photos, and anything else that depicts the ocean.

But who knows, the possibilities are endless, we have yet to learn from this amazing planet.

mmm... yeah... lets not get religion into this. Besides, if nessie did actually exist, it'd be dead by now, because if you look at it, the first sighting of nessie was a looooooooong time ago, when a priest put nessie to halt when it was attacking a man. It all really depends on the life span of the plesiosaur. Yeah sure, people 'thought' they saw nessie, but most of those photos are fake, for example, the one with the long neck, is a toy sauropod (Sauropods were the ones with long necks, lived on land, and were herbivores). Also, if nessie existed, we would be able to find animal droppings on the lake bed. to prove nessie doesnt exist, we'd have to look at food levels (such as fish, reptiles, any thing of the like) before nessie was spotted, and after she was spotted.

There isn't ONE plesiousaur, or ONE bigfoot, dumbshit.  And the person who took the most famous Nessie photo, I'm assuming this is what you are talking about, said that they used a model made of out plasticwood.  They said this, and it wasn't invented at the time the pictures were taken, and the second, much rarer, photo showed a bend in the neck. 

There isn't ONE plesiousaur, or ONE bigfoot, dumbshit.

so... mister dumbshit, do you have any evidence as to if there were several of these cryptids? sure people saw em all over the place, but we dont know if there's one or just many, all i know is that these cryptids will probably die out sometime if theres only one of em, animals cant be immortal. its just a matter of time before we find out, and what do these things actually do to benefit our society.

oh, and if you're finding this useless crap on wikipedia, you're wrong. wikipedia is editable by anybody, thus, the information can be false.

and since when did we talk about big foot, aren't we talking about plesiosaurs?

bends in the neck proves nothing actually, i mean, you could realy be looking at a submerged tree trunk that has a bend in it.

A bend that changes between two pictures take in a matter of seconds.  Not once have I went to Wikipedia, and I reserve the right to call you a dumbshit, because if you think that it is the same one bigfoot, or the same one plesiosaur, that people have reported for hundreds of years, then that makes you grade A dumsbhit.

Ruhani, just gtfo. You lost.

if there were shitloads of em, then why must they hide from the human eye? oh, and im not saying that there is one sasquatch or plessy, if there were multiple beings, then why aren't we able to document them? take notes of them, watch them in their daily habitats, all im saying is....

i believe in nessy, and i hope it does surface some day so we could actually get footage of it. its just that some shit heads want to 'fake' those videos. theres not enough evidence to back up the claim that a nessy is actually in the loch, and even if there were other plessies in the world, we'd at least discover some by now. technology has grown so useful, its easy nowathese days to make up and image of nessy, or make footage of it.

by the way, i must ask this question, in what places do you think plessies could be found?

Debate is a formalized system of (usually) logical argument. Rules governing debate allow groups and individuals to discuss and decide issues and differences. Debate is a common process in deliberative bodies such as parliaments, legislative assemblies, and meetings of all sorts. Outcomes of debates may be decided by voting, by judges, or by combination of both.

so theres no winning or losing in debating.

read this article from BBC

Ok folks. Show's over. Nothing to see here. Move along. Nessie has left
the building...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/3096839.stm

 

Spoiler for:

A BBC team says it has shown there is no such thing as the Loch Ness
 monster.

as for modern plessies, no article can be found on that, but the BBC article could explain for all.

 Using 600 separate sonar beams and satellite navigation technology to
 ensure that none of the loch was missed, the team surveyed the waters
 said to hide Scotland's legendary tourist attraction but found no trace
 of the monster.
 ...
 The researchers looked at the habits of modern marine reptiles, such as
 crocodiles and leatherback turtles, to try to work out how a plesiosaur
 might have behaved.

 They hoped the instruments aboard their search boat would pick up the air
 in Nessie's lungs as it reflected a distorted signal back to the sonar
 sensors.
 ...
 "We went from shoreline to shoreline, top to bottom on this one, we have
 covered everything in this loch and we saw no signs of any large living
 animal in the loch," said Ian Florence, one of the specialists who
 carried out the survey for the BBC.

 His colleague Hugh MacKay added: "We got some good clear data of the
 loch, steep sided, flat bottomed - nothing unusual I'm afraid."
 ...
 The BBC team says the only explanation for the persistence of the myth of
 the monster is that people see what they want to see.
 
 To prove this, the researchers hid a fence post beneath the surface of
 the loch and raised it in front of a coach party of tourists.

 Interviewed afterwards, most said they had observed a square object but
 several drew monster-shaped heads when asked to sketch what they had
 seen.

 The television programme detailing the investigation, Searching For The
 Loch Ness Monster, was made for BBC One.

(at least they didn't call it Walking With Nessie)

Debate is a formalized system of (usually) logical argument. Rules governing debate allow groups and individuals to discuss and decide issues and differences. Debate is a common process in deliberative bodies such as parliaments, legislative assemblies, and meetings of all sorts. Outcomes of debates may be decided by voting, by judges, or by combination of both.

http://www.angelfire.com/stars3/education/debate.html

I can use google, too.

Its still possible that there would be a close relative to the plesiosaur, as well as other primordial beings, living deep within the ocean. Its true that most sightings are false, but as with many things we discuss in here, we just don't know yet.

Guys... We are talking about a Plesiosaurs, no need to flame each other... Neither of you are Dumb shits... Both raise fairly good points.

There are thousands of Giant turtles, yet they are very rarely sighted... Many sea creatures know the sound of a boat engine and are long gone before the divers get in the water, nessy type monsters have been reported throught out history, so it could be they fear man.

Plesiosaurs are not great preditors, they can eat fish and at best seals... They are no match for sharks... It would make sense to me for them to travel inland, like the amazon, or the loch ness in scotland (there's underground caves)... But there is not enough food there to support a creature of it's size for long, so I would imagine it does travel out to sea, but may be a short stints... (Link talking about the Loch ness:- http://www.strangemag.com/roguenessie.html)

If you want to speak about other creatures that have been myth and then found alive here's some thing I found:-

Discoveries of new animal species are not common, but this happens more frequently than people believe. The okapi, sometimes called the ghost of the jungle, and the mountain gorilla were both discovered in Africa in the early 1900s. The kouprey, a mountain ox, was discovered in 1937 in the forests of Southeast Asia. It is critically endangered and is found in Cambodia and believed to be extinct in Laos and Viet Nam. A coelacanth, believed to be extinct, was caught off of the coast of Africa in 1938. The megamouth shark was discovered off of the Hawaiian coast in 1976.

People have sighted sea, river and lake serpents globally. Probably the most famous is Nessie of Loch Ness, Scotland. In the United States, lake serpents include South Bay Bessie (Lake Erie, PA), Champ (Lake Champlain, NY), Winnie (Lake Winnipesaukee, NH), Tessie (Lake Tahoe, NV-CA borders), Chessie (Chesapeake Bay, VA), Hodgee (Lake Hodges, CA) and the un-nicknamed lake monsters in Lakes Norman (NC), Flathead (MT) and Murray (SC). There is also Sylvie in Silver Lake, California, not to be confused with the Silver Lake, NY serpent. Most of these serpents have only local or regional fame.
From the descriptions offered by witnesses, lake serpents could be plesiosaurs, a dinosaur believed to be extinct, as was the case with the coelacanth. Obviously, they could be an elusive species of an aquatic animal that has been sighted, but not captured alive, killed or found dead so scientists could classify and categorize the animals. To some totally skeptical people the sightings are hallucinations, optical illusions like mirages, drug induced visions or outright hoaxes

People have tried to offer explanations as to what the actual sighted monster was, as in the case of the White River monster, Whitey. Roy Mackal, a biologist, proposed that Whitey is an elephant seal who managed to swim up the Mississippi. The males can grow to be up to 17 feet long. Interesting theory, however, however, a seal would have to swim from its natural habitat in California and Baja California, then through the Panama Canal to the Atlantic Ocean to get to the big river. Another flaw in this thought is that seals are pinnipeds that use their flippers to navigate on land. They do not leave three toed tracks as Whitey did.

Giant otters have also been theorized to account for lake serpent sightings. It has been suggested that they swim in a groups and, when in formation, can be mistaken for a serpent. Other suggestions are unusually large specimens of sturgeon or catfish.

BACK TO TOPIC

The Silver Lake serpent defied all of these possible theories and explanations and was in a class by itself. The Seneca tribe believed there was a monster in Silver Lake and they would not swim in it. The settlers, most likely, thought this was superstition. They had not seen anything unusual in the lake until a summer night in 1885.

On July 13th, 1885, a moonlit night, Joseph McKnight, Charles Hall and Alonzo and Charles Scribner were in a boat in Silver Lake, trying to catch catfish. McKnight saw something large that he called the other men's attention to. It looked like a huge log. It disappeared and they gave it no more thought and continued their fishing. Suddenly, the log reappeared closer to the boat and began to move in a serpentine manner toward it. In the moonlight, they could see that the log was a serpent. The men grabbed the oars in panic and rowed away from it as fast as they could. They went toward the end of the lake opposite from their homes and left the boat there. The quartet had to walk two miles to their homes. The trip across the lake was only half a mile, but there was no way they would get in the boat, in that lake and row across it with what they saw in it.

The next day, they signed notarized statements attesting as to what they saw. Their friends joked with them and said they must have been drinking. There was no way a 60 foot serpent lived in the lake!

Within several weeks, at least a hundred people saw the serpent. The townspeople formed a vigilante committee to kill it. Word spread and people came to Silver Lake in hopes of catching a glimpse of the serpent. They ranged from curiosity seekers to hunters to a whaling man who brought his lances and harpoons with him to deal with the creature.

Hotels did not have room enough for the tourists and people rented rooms in their homes to them. Business increased and an air of excitement filled the quiet resort town.

They the last sighting of the creature was in the late summer of 1885.

For the next two years, people still flocked to Perry in hopes that they would see the Silver Lake serpent. There was speculation as to why it disappeared in1885. Did it die? Was it in hibernation? Could there have been underground streams that it swam away from the lake in?

In 1857, the question of what caused the disappearance of the creature was answered. A. B. Walker's hotel, the Walker House caught on fire. When the firemen reached the attic, they found something curious. It was about 60 feet long, made of waterproof canvas with coils inside. Weights were attached to it at intervals. There were a hose and large bellows to inflate it and ropes to move it with. This was what was left of the Silver Lake serpent.
A. B. Walker wanted to increase his hotel business. He may have thought that summer would be a slow one. Perhaps he remembered the old Seneca legend and was inspired.

He, with some trusted friends, created the monster out of cloth and wire. In the darkness of the night, they took the fake serpent to the lake and silently placed it in there. The bellows and hose provided the air to make it rise up out of the water and submerge. The weights gave it the serpentine motion. The ropes made it move through the water.

Walker and his friends enjoyed the excitement their monster had created. The hotel keeper also enjoyed the increased business. It was fun. What a great practical joke and the results it created! Then, they had a few narrow escapes while navigating their monster through the waters of the lake or taking it there and back, during which they were nearly discovered with it.

The men thought about what could happen if their hoax was discovered. They began to worry how the people would react once they found out they had been deceived. This is why the Silver Lake serpent made its final appearance in late summer.

Several years ago, I read that Walker made a very hasty exit from the town fearing repercussions after the hoax was discovered.

There are still some today who believe the serpent was real and write about its validity despite compelling evidence to the contrary. One imaginative writer said that it was impossible to have been a fake because the monster's eyes glowed like fire.

In the course of my research, I found a website that calls the monster "Sylvie" and compares it to Nessie. No state was mentioned on the website, but there was a link to a local mall. This Silver Lake is in Los Angeles. At least this one is not perpetuating a fraud, but I am surprised the webmistress did not research lake serpents and find out about the Silver Lake monster hoax.

As for the town of Perry, there is an annual Sea Serpent Balloon Festival commemorating the hoax.

if there were shitloads of em, then why must they hide from the human eye?
Our anscestors, I forget the scientific name, wiped out their anscestors nearly to extinction oh, and im not saying that there is one sasquatch or plessy, if there were multiple beings, then why aren't we able to document them? Because they are HARD TO FIND.... dumbshit.take notes of them, watch them in their daily habitats, all im saying is....

i believe in nessy, and i hope it does surface some day so we could actually get footage of it. its just that some shit heads want to 'fake' those videos. theres not enough evidence to back up the claim that a nessy is actually in the loch, and even if there were other plessies in the world, we'd at least discover some by now. We have only explored something like under 5% of the ocean, and most boats never go off their shipping routes, which animals would avoid. technology has grown so useful, its easy nowathese days to make up and image of nessy, or make footage of it. Do you carry a camera or a camcorder with you all the time?

by the way, i must ask this question, in what places do you think plessies could be found?  Any deep water, or places off the shipping routes.

so theres no winning or losing in debating. You proved your own theory wrong by losing.

 Using 600 separate sonar beams and satellite navigation technology to
 ensure that none of the loch was missed, the team surveyed the waters
 said to hide Scotland's legendary tourist attraction but found no trace
 of the monster.  Once again, it comes back to the underwater tunnels that they would probably use to get into the loch for mating purposes, and the fact that EXTREME SONAR all through the loch would make them get out as fast as possible.
 ...

Our anscestors, I forget the scientific name, wiped out their anscestors nearly to extinction

[/b]
so we did with the dodo, your point?

Because they are HARD TO FIND.... dumbshit.

[/b]
hey if dodos were hard to find, how'd we know about them now? People have actually gone out of their way to document this creature.

We have only explored something like under 5% of the ocean, and most boats never go off their shipping routes, which animals would avoid.

[/b]hey, if scientists and explorers minded their own business, we wouldn't have discovered half the animals we know today.

Do you carry a camera or a camcorder with you all the time?

[/b]
nope, but i bet HOAXERS do 

Any deep water, or places off the shipping routes.

[/b]

if plessies lived in deep water, they wouldn't have a blow hole. And marine mammals stay near the surface or in the middle of oceans and seas. Marine mammals aren't considered fish, that they can go live in deep water. Else they'd run out of oxygen before even getting to the surface to breath. (someone did mention blowholes). and plus it depends how far off shipping routes, because sonars can detect those animals.

interesting how all these serpants are found in lakes, so im presuming hoaxers use them as reference for their made up encounters, but then again...

theres a possibility of finding these docile creatures, its just idiots and the mentally unstable do anything to prove they actually do exist. If you want these magnificent creatures to be sighted, people need to stop taking advantage of them, and actually go look for them. some people have gone hunting them, and all came out unsuccessful.

its true, that these plessies might have undergone evolutionary changes, so thats why maybe they can hide from the 'naked' eye.

You proved your own theory wrong by losing.

[/b]
as opposed to losing because you and holk said so?

Once again, it comes back to the underwater tunnels that they would probably use to get into the loch for mating purposes, and the fact that EXTREME SONAR all through the loch would make them get out as fast as possible.

[/b]

most marine mammals can't resist the sound of extreme sonar, or generally just sonar, because it irritates their blowholes (if any), and thus, it forces them to be stranded on shores, and they can walk back, but if they were to be stranded, theres a high possibility of near by residents spotting them.

Loch Ness monster... It has been proved countless times that it cannot exist in that lake, for obvious reasons.

Plesiosaurs... There will always exist the possibility of prehistoric species still roaming Earth, somewhere.

obvious reasons.

List them, and I will tell you why you are wrong.  You better not get religous on me.