Acupuncture, Homeopathy, Reiki and the Placebo effect.

This thread is here to discuss whether the above ( and other alternative ) treatments are relying on the placebo effect solely, and if they are more helpful then harmful.

I myself am against alternative medicine, the above three especially, because I believe that not only do they just rely on an effect produced by the body itself ( rather then the treatment ) but they are also hindering the progress of medical advancement making them quite destructive.

With the ideas that they bring in, they also may seduce a person into using their particular healing method, rather then directly going into mainstream medicine possibly losing valuable, lifesaving time. 

As well as the more 'supernatural' treatments I oppose, I am against chiropractic methods as well. It's nothing short of a scam.   

What reasons do we have to support these methods of healing?

Acupuncture is a form of healing used for centuries, it does actually work...depending on what you want to do. Giving up habits...no...but it can help with some physiological damage such as nervous tension, blood circulation, random pain...or...if you want to be really cunning...to stop the transfer of messages from nerves to the brain.

I'm not sure about the second, could someone please explain it.

Reiki is...well...the placebo effect...I really don't know about it at all, but it along with the Placebo effect is good for those suffering with Health Anxiety Disorder or even Münchhausen's syndrome (it's not gonna help with Münchhausen's By Proxy though...). Sometimes Placebo's are given by Doctors, Psychologists, and Psychiatrists because they may wish the patient to think they are getting better because in effect there is nothing particularly wrong with them.

However, a psychology experiment on the effects of Placebo show that sometimes the physiological side of things cannot be counteracted by the mind. 80 subjects suffering from syphilis were taken in and told they were going to be cured by taking this special medicine. It was actually Sugar Pills. 79 of them died...but to frame that positively...1 of them survived.

Chiropractic treatments are awesome if you have something wrong with your foot... 

Acupuncture is a form of healing used for centuries, it does actually work...depending on what you want to do. Giving up habits...no...but it can help with some physiological damage such as nervous tension, blood circulation, random pain...or...if you want to be really cunning...to stop the transfer of messages from nerves to the brain.

These all sound like placebo effects.

However, a psychology experiment on the effects of Placebo show that sometimes the physiological side of things cannot be counteracted by the mind. 80 subjects suffering from syphilis were taken in and told they were going to be cured by taking this special medicine. It was actually Sugar Pills. 79 of them died...but to frame that positively...1 of them survived.

No one said that placebos were a cure-all.

A summery to those listed healing methods;

Acupuncture: Thin needles are placed along the energy flow lines of the body ( chi ) and the needles are put in a certain direction to re-direct the flow of "mystical energy". Unlike common belief, acupuncture is completely supernaturally based.

Homeopathy: Uses the problem as a cure. The negative thing is diluted to half the amount with water and is tapped several times so that the ingredient leaves an "echo" in the water. This is repeated until it becomes 1 part to a 1000000 ( basically one molecule of it's former self ).

Reiki: Basically Healing Hands. Using manna of god to heal the sick ( like Jesus ). They put their hands over the area without physically touching the person.

As to chiropractics: The highlight of the treatment would be the "cracking" of certain bones. This creates a feeling of short term release in pain without doing any real good. The only positive, longterm effects come from the exercises they give you to do ( those exercises being separate from the treatment and their personal discoveries ).

However, a psychology experiment on the effects of Placebo show that sometimes the physiological side of things cannot be counteracted by the mind. 80 subjects suffering from syphilis were taken in and told they were going to be cured by taking this special medicine. It was actually Sugar Pills. 79 of them died...but to frame that positively...1 of them survived.

Of course the effect isn't the ultimate answer, but I still believe that the placebo effect is a powerful tool we need to discover even more so. The placebo effect can also go both ways, while yes giving someone a sugar pill can take away pain, couldn't a doctor saying to someone: "You will die in three weeks" cause the opposite effect, making the body give up?

Sometimes Placebo's are given by Doctors, Psychologists, and Psychiatrists because they may wish the patient to think they are getting better because in effect there is nothing particularly wrong with them.

Lol, a placebo for a placebo. What better is there..?


I feel a lot of people take being given a placebo in the wrong way. It's really just showing the power of the human mind.

I think there are better ways to treat problems then going to the doctor and getting pills. The biggest reason I could probably give you (I assume it is quite big) is that people realize that prescribed medicine, rather then natural ways, hurt more then heal.

First, let me say that prescribed medicine treats only the symptoms a majority of the time, and not the cause itself. If you use a strong enough medicine, it will give side effects. Then you need more medicine to relieve the side effects. Then the snowball effect happens. For major problems, such as life-threatening ones, it is ovbiously best to seek proffesional help.


I honestly have no clue what you mean by that description of Homeopathy. Are you saying that the bacteria or the virus causing the problem is diluted, and the remaining molecule creates an immunity? Eh?


Random Conspiracy Theory: They (the gov't, medical institutes, w/e) have already created medicine without side-effects, and probably cures to quite a few diseases, they just don't release it to the public. I don't remember how much, but they make somewhere in the billions, if not more, off the medical market.

Random Conspiracy Theory: They (the gov't, medical institutes, w/e) have already created medicine without side-effects, and probably cures to quite a few diseases, they just don't release it to the public. I don't remember how much, but they make somewhere in the billions, if not more, off the medical market.

The government has done no such thing ever and will continue to not engage in that kind of activity. If we have it you'll know about it.

I think there are better ways to treat problems then going to the doctor and getting pills. The biggest reason I could probably give you (I assume it is quite big) is that people realize that prescribed medicine, rather then natural ways, hurt more then heal.

Millions of people rely on prescription drugs (myself among them) to live normal lives. Sure, the drugs have side effects, but without them people's lives would be a lot harder. People bitch about the side effects, but they keep taking the medication because the alternatives are unpleasant. What are these better ways you talk about, and why aren't people using them if they are so much better than what we use?

First, let me say that prescribed medicine treats only the symptoms a majority of the time, and not the cause itself. If you use a strong enough medicine, it will give side effects. Then you need more medicine to relieve the side effects. Then the snowball effect happens. For major problems, such as life-threatening ones, it is ovbiously best to seek proffesional help.

Nice blanket statement. Many prescriptions are for conditions that can't be cured, and without them people's lives would be a lot rougher. People who complain about using drugs to alleviate the side effects of drugs are usually purists of some sort or people using the drugs who forgot how extremely unpleasant their condition could be when compared to dizziness or nausea. People get additional prescriptions because they say "Feeling a little dizzy now and then is ruining my life! You've gotta do something!"

Homeopathy sounds like the same thing as an antidote...or ...an immunisation...taking a much weaker form of the problem and injecting it into the body to get it to produce antibodies. So...there's some good grounded theory there.

As for Acupuncture...

Acupuncture (from Lat. acus, "needle" (noun), and pungere, "prick" (verb)) or in Standard Mandarin, zh?n ji? (?? lit: needle - moxibustion) is a technique of inserting and manipulating needles into "acupuncture points" on the body. According to acupunctural teachings this will restore health and well-being, and is particularly good at treating pain. The definition and characterization of these points is standardized by the World Health Organization [2] (WHO). Acupuncture is thought to have originated in China and is most commonly associated with Traditional Chinese medicine (TCM). Different types of acupuncture (Japanese, Korean, and classical Chinese acupuncture) are practiced and taught throughout the world.


If the WHO support it, I'm full ahead with it. (And they do...but only for pain relief)

Ahhhh homeopathy is an absolute joke, founded on the common mans logic.

I agree that acupuncture works, but only by placebo. So what's wrong with it if it helps a few people? Well it may take away their headaches, but in the long run it's dumbing down society and taking away research and attention from medicine that physically works =).

Here's a news article ( there are plenty of them out there ) showing support that acupuncture in effect does nothing.

"Fake Acupuncture as Good as 'Real' Acupuncture
This will come as no surprise to skeptics, but believers may have a problem with it: a study of more than 300 patients in Britain reveals that people receiving acupuncture for headaches did no better than patients receiving fake acupuncture.

The BBC reports:

    One group received 12 sessions of genuine acupuncture over eight weeks. Another group received 12 similar sessions of acupuncture, except the needles administered were not placed in parts of the body thought to relieve migraine pain, hence any benefit would likely be placebo rather than real, according to the researchers. The third group received no treatment but were placed on a waiting list to see a migraine doctor.

    All of the patients kept diaries about their migraine symptoms. While the patients on the waiting list continued to have headaches just as often, the ones who received acupuncture - sham or real - had fewer headaches.

So, those who actually saw some sort of doctor and received some sort of care, attention, and treatment also experience some alleviation of their symptoms over and above those who were simply put in a waiting list. Why is anyone surprised? Of course getting a bit of care and attention will make you feel better. This isn't just the placebo effect, it's the fact that people go to the doctor in order to be treated and, when they are, that by itself makes one feel a little better.

Believers are already trying to spin this by arguing that acupuncture is "different" for each person, an argument which requires denying that there are specific spots where needles must be placed. That also requires abandoning just about everything that is thought to be behind acupuncture. Acupuncture is reduced to nothing more than jabbing needles in a few random places to see what happens."

There have been plenty of studies done randomly placing needles throughout the body showing no difference then a "master" who follows the trained chi channels. I also find it quite amusing when I was told "The acupuncture will only work, if you believe  it will work" when trying this all out first hand. That being the definition of how placebos work...

The only problem with a lot of these things is that no matter how much evidence of their fraud that we discover, they can simply say it's based on "spiritual energy" not yet discovered by science.. Sad..

However...why fund scientific research when the same problem can be solved by a simple placebo.

Homeopathy, Reiki, Acupuncture...(even though I don't agree with Homeopathy and Acupuncture as being just placebo's...until they start talking about Mysticism) even if they are Placebo's...if you could be cured by using Acupuncture (just for instance) from say a type of skin cancer...would you rather take the Chemotherapy which is much more likely to kill you half the time than the cancer itself?

Using the right techniques, these "placebo's" as you call them can be very active in treatment and some doctors do recommend them instead of conventional treatment. Such as in the case of muscle cramps.

Reiki means moving your hand over different spots and letting your energy do its work, well...put your hand a few centimetres above your other hand. What happens? They get warm. This warmth, warms up the skin and the muscles allowing the blood to move faster and repair faster. (This is scientifically proven...and when I find the damn research I'll edit this message...not the Reiki but, but the heat bit.)

From your news article...I think...that I'm talking about a different Acupunture...I mean the one where it goes all the way in and disables nerves/muscles etc. Heck you can stop people from moving via a few well placed needles.

So in that news article I agree with you, and working with Chi/Spiritual energy is for the most part...fake. That is belief and it is placebo. I don't believe we have the level of power in order to tap into life in that way.