Separation of Church and State.

Edit: Thank you LOS, yes this topic is turning into some what of a religious debate rather then it's original purpose. I will try to stay on topic after this post, thanks for the wake up call.

I'll be updating this with all the kill commands in the bible. Christians are blood thirsty... Oh I hope you have a bible, don't be wasting my time now...

Exodus 22:18-20;

18 "Do not allow a sorceress to live.

19 "Anyone who has sexual relations with an animal must be put to death.

20 "Whoever sacrifices to any god other than the LORD must be destroyed.

Leviticus 20:13;

13 " 'If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads.

Leviticus 20:27;

27 " 'A man or woman who is a medium or spiritist among you must be put to death. You are to stone them; their blood will be on their own heads.' "

Exodus 21:15;

15 "Anyone who attacks [a] his father or his mother must be put to death.

proverbs 20:20

20 If a man curses his father or mother,
       his lamp will be snuffed out in pitch darkness. ( DS: That means death )

leviticus 20:10

10 " 'If a man commits adultery with another man's wife—with the wife of his neighbor—both the adulterer and the adulteress must be put to death.

leviticus 21:9

9 " 'If a priest's daughter defiles herself by becoming a prostitute, she disgraces her father; she must be burned in the fire.

I have many, many more. I could go all day...

Please try to keep your posts consisting of part the topics title
I'm posting this up to show how bad religion can get. Matters like the above should not be connected in anyway to government rulings. Oh and Christians: THIS IS WHAT YOUR FOLLOWING Your book, not mine.

My favorite is Mark 9:1: "And he said to them, "Assuredly, I say to you that there are some standing here who will not taste death till they see the kingdom of God present with power."

"They're getting cleaner"? This doesn't justify it, they have to have been completely clean and unaffecting nature from the very start for them to not be a step back in progress.
Anything that affects nature in a destructive way, no matter how little, is really not worth using.

We're not destroying nature, we're changing it. We've said this before, in other threads. Also, we have to make mistakes before we progress, we're not perfect.

And you can't shift the blame like that, you can't come up with a theory and then say I have to disprove it for it to be invalid.

I'm not the one saying 'X IS BAD AND EVIL AND IS FALSE AND THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NO EVIDENCE IN ITS SUPPORT.'

Then I might aswell say aliens, shaped like beer bottles, came and built the Sydney opera house.
Now YOU prove that its false or else it's true.

I could go ahead and provide a link to a site about its construction!

Most palentologists agree that there is no proof of evolution, if species mutated into better ones

Most? Also, they don't mutate into better species, they mutate into different ones suited for different needs and niches.

there would be piles of bones scattered everywhere around the globe... Seems like thats not the case since they haven't found a single one that hasn't turned out to be a fraud.

...There are piles of bones scattered everywhere around the globe though.

If you heard so much valid defense for evolution why is it you're not using that instead of just trying to change the subject into some childish "I know you are but what am I?" insult game?

Ahaha, that would be you. Want some proof? Check out Saladin's links. I'll see if I can dig up some other stuff for you when I'm done with class.

A real christian would renounce all affiliations with any governmental institution and would NEVER sign up for service in a military power.

And who the fuck are you to judge someone as a 'real' Christian or not? There's nothing wrong, as far as I can see from a biblical perspective with war, assuming the war itself is 'just'.

Only evolution and satanism allows murder.

There are no amounts of ellipses that can express my utter shock at your stupidity.

Any one who says otherwise is a liar, you can't be christian, muslim, buddhist, hinduist etc. and kill another human, it just doesn't work.

Sure you can, there have been plenty of cases of it really! Also, Mohammed didn't have a problem with the idea of jihad or anything.

And cat, evolutionism is the disease, not the other religions.

Right, evolutionism is the one that deceives and manipulates people.

I didn't insult you, it's not my fault if you are too ignorant to accept that what I called you a moron over made no sense.

It's what happened to me- my parents are Fundamentalists and brainwashed me into that shit as well. BUT I AM CURED BY THE SAVING GRACE OF THE GODDESS ATHE! Oh glory HALLELUJAH!

You state that Yahweh is omnipotent:

Do we all understand the meaning of that word..? It means the top, all knowing, absolutely nothing else to know.

s/omnipotent/omniscient/
Omnipotence is having all power, hence 'potent'; omniscient is all knowledge, hence 'scient' (cf. 'science').

K, kool. Uhhh I don't know what he thinks about it, but you calling him "Cat" is starting to piss me off.

I don't really give a shit. The sad thing is, I forgot that was my avatar and got confused as to who 'the Cat' was for a while.

THIS IS WHAT YOUR FOLLOWING

I'll let you know right now that you quoted parts of the bible that didn't even relate to anything that Christians actually follow, you seriously don't believe they live by a book - word for word. And if you do you've obviously never met a Christian and are mindlessly attacking.

It's what happened to me- my parents are Fundamentalists and brainwashed me into that shit as well. BUT I AM CURED BY THE SAVING GRACE OF THE GODDESS ATHE! Oh glory HALLELUJAH!

Um...?

I'll let you know right now that you quoted parts of the bible that didn't even relate to anything that Christians actually follow, you seriously don't believe they live by a book - word for word. And if you do you've obviously never met a Christian and are mindlessly attacking.

So what you're saying is that Christians don't follow the Bible?

I'll let you know right now that you quoted parts of the bible that didn't even relate to anything that Christians actually follow, you seriously don't believe they live by a book - word for word. And if you do you've obviously never met a Christian and are mindlessly attacking.

So what you're saying is that Christians don't follow the Bible?

So you're saying that a Christian family kills the kids when they swear at them?

EDIT:

This is just getting stupid - this stuff doesn't even relate to anything. This proves you made this topic just to advertise how (apparently) bad religion is, nothing more. Farewell, and actually try to discuss the topic you first mentioned. *leaves topic*

So you're saying that a Christian family kills the kids when they swear at them?

Well, they should (unless this is OT stuff). There are parts of the NT that a lot of Christians nowadays would disagree with, such as the part where Jesus says that people can't divorce and remarry because it would be adultery.

Most? Also, they don't mutate into better species, they mutate into different ones suited for different needs and niches.

LOL... Yeah... Like Chickens... they have been around as far back as Man, and right back then they couldn't fly and now... they errr... still can't... LOL

Evolution is amost as much Cock and Bull as God and the Bible.

But all the above is VERY OFF TOPIC... Back to TOPIC

For leaders of countries or heads of states that have a multitude of religions co-insiding within a closenet system should never favour one religious standing over another... it will de-sect the public within their own sectors.

Leaders should act for the better of the public residing in the populus rather than acting on a notion of a devine force or things they claim to hear in their own heads or opinions.

Acting to their own needs is not why they are appointed the power of the people... and the people in most countries now come from ALL religious backgrounds.

For leaders of countries or heads of states that have a multitude of religions co-insiding within a closenet system should never favour one religious standing over another... it will de-sect the public within their own sectors.

Leaders should act for the better of the public residing in the populus rather than acting on a notion of a devine force or things they claim to hear in their own heads or opinions.

Acting to their own needs is not why they are appointed the power of the people... and the people in most countries now come from ALL religious backgrounds.

I agree, but how can this happen without a new system? If there are things that can be manipulated for personal gain then they will be. What methods can be installed to stop politicians from using religion as a method for vote-gaining?

Any spam posts after this one and I'm putting the topic into time out.

Most? Also, they don't mutate into better species, they mutate into different ones suited for different needs and niches.

LOL... Yeah... Like Chickens... they have been around as far back as Man, and right back then they couldn't fly and now... they errr... still can't... LOL

Evolution is amost as much Cock and Bull as God and the Bible.

What is your point? Flight is not a defining feature of birds, and there used to be flightless birds that were at the top of their food chain. Chickens are a good example of controlled evolution, where we act as the selective force instead of nature. Instead of selecting for survival traits, however, we select for taste, docility, and size.

Sorry Saladin, I agree with you but;

Any spam posts after this one and I'm putting the topic into time out.

I'm locking the topic. I'm taking a spa and I will unlock when I'm out...


If you want to talk about this there is a topic for life, it was made for the discussion of just this matter and has no real defining lines of debate. Take your claim there and I will be happy to back you in length.

*posts in a locked topic* I'll have add my shit on that.

Every sane person in the world can see that evolution doesn't work out,

So we are all insane, you're the only sane one, eh? It's YOU who is flaming US again if you didn't notice. What do you expect as a response from us then?!

Self pitying innuendo to see that it's impossible for everything to have formed out of a wet fucking rock over billions of years.

Leave a bottle of water for a few days and look at all the bacteria that were created. Why do you think this isn't possible?

If everything evolved into more perfect forms, since everything started at the same time, everything should have evolved the exact same way, into one perfect creature that is better than anyone else, instead of thousands of different creatures.

Just a side note: evolution isn't finished, evolution will never finish, it's a constant process.

I have never seen anyone who believe in evolution actually back it up with facts or reasonable theorems, it's always slander and insults.
And that is because there are no facts or reasonable theorems to support that outdated fictional crap.

Ok, now I am not slandering and insulting you. And now please tell me how do you explain our existance if you're so all-knowing?

Anyone who claims that humanity is moving forward must be completely blind, to think humans are smarter now than they were 4000 years ago is wrong, simple as that.
It's called Entropy, look it up.

To be more exact the human race didn't become smarter for the last 10000 years, they only have gainded more knowledge. Are you sure you know what you are talking about?

3000 years ago people knew that everything was in essence nothing more than energy,

And where did you get that info from?

and these scientists who are oh-so-smart just came out with a startling discovery, when you split an atom and then split the little quarks, everything is in essence nothing more than energy!
Oh my, where have I heard that before?

If you didn't notice, they are right.

Everything this wonderful modern science comes up with is either destructive or useless.
And mostly both.
Weapons
Nuclear power
Cars
Airplanes
anything that runs on gasoline

Not neccesarry useless, but I agree up to some point. It's a neccessary evil, if we like it or not. There are more and more people on the Earth and somehow we have to manage that. To prove that it's not useless, I ask you, were the people better off 1000 years ago without that? I don't think so.

Humans are the stupidest creatures on earth.

You are a human as well.

And to the cat, I know what nature means, nature is the physical world and all the animals, plants and landscapes in it.

Humans aren't a part of nature, we're not animals, never have been and never will be.

That's just lol. Suddenly you are changing you mind, eh? Just a few pages ago you were saying how humans are nothing better than animals and now you're saying they are none.

The only time god should be mentioned in schools is in the study of religion which should not be done untill students are actually at an age where they can understand what they're looking at(high school level) in my opinion. Schools are places of learning, not religious bullshit.

I agree on that. I don't think school and religion should go hand in hand.

The only time Evolution should be mentioned in schools is when they talk about things that are completely false.

You know, I was taught history in my school about the history of the U.S.A. Do you REALLY believe they taught me such glorious things as the kids in the U.S.A. are taught? School is partially used to manipulate the youth IF YOU DIDN'T KNOW. One more thing such as evolution (like you are claiming) doesn't make a difference, don't you think so?

And not only that but it is illegal to teach evolution as a fact in public schools, it has to be presented as a theory.

It isn't thaught as a fact, but as a theory. Now I am wondering, did you even go to school...?

The only reason the government supports evolution is because it's one of two religions that doesn't condemn murder, ...

What are you talking about?! Who said evolution does allow murder? Where is that written? Show me.

Hey, here's some more shit that's destructive and useless:
Medicine.
Environmental science.
The Internet.
Printing.
etc.

<3

And to the cat, I know what nature means, nature is the physical world and all the animals, plants and landscapes in it.

Humans aren't a part of nature, we're not animals, never have been and never will be.

Humans are primates. Primates are animals. Animals are nature.
So I guess you just didn't know what humans were, my apologies.

I wish I could rep++ you more than once in 4 hours.

The only time Evolution should be mentioned in schools is when they talk about things that are completely false.

ahahahahahahaha

Yet another <3

And not only that but it is illegal to teach evolution as a fact in public schools, it has to be presented as a theory.

It's not a theory, it's a scientific law. Due to semantic (sorry to make you bust out the dictionary) shift, 'fact' ~= 'scientific law' except in its strictist definition.

Just <3

The only reason the government supports evolution is because it's one of two religions that doesn't condemn murder, and thus they have more sacrifices for their armies.
More people who are willing to kill other people so the polticians can fill their wallets.

I guess that would explain why the military is mostly made up of Southern Christians.
Also, war != murder.

4th <3

"They're getting cleaner"? This doesn't justify it, they have to have been completely clean and unaffecting nature from the very start for them to not be a step back in progress.
Anything that affects nature in a destructive way, no matter how little, is really not worth using.

Did you know that any animal poo is destructing the Earth in a no matter how little way? Other than that I have already stated how humans depend on what they have created.

And you can't shift the blame like that, you can't come up with a theory and then say I have to disprove it for it to be invalid.

Why can't he? Since now you've only given false or partially false facts. I agree with gonorrhoea (or how you call him: the cat) in the part where he says that you obviously have now idea about evolution. Not knowing about something and telling how it's bad is the greatest ignorance if you didn't know. Oh yes, before you even have time to think up about what to reply to this prt of my post: There is one bigger ignorance; that's when you deny that you're ignorant. And even before you are calling me ignorant, read what I have written above. I am very aware of the polution the human race caused. But that was because they didn't KNOW it would polute the Earth. Here comes the part in that proves that humans DID learn something, since some of them are trying to save the planet.

Then I might aswell say aliens, shaped like beer bottles, came and built the Sydney opera house.
Now YOU prove that its false or else it's true.

Most palentologists agree that there is no proof of evolution, if species mutated into better ones
(fyi there has never been an observation of any positive mutations in a species, they have always been negative, things don't get better when they mutate, they get worse)
there would be piles of bones scattered everywhere around the globe... Seems like thats not the case since they haven't found a single one that hasn't turned out to be a fraud.

Have you any idea how your brain works and how the brain of a chimp works? I would say, there WAS a positive mutation there. Next time PLEASE think before you write such bullshit.

If you heard so much valid defense for evolution why is it you're not using that instead of just trying to change the subject into some childish "I know you are but what am I?" insult game?

Excuse me, but it's you who is doing this all the time. You haven't brought upon at least one valid argument about... whatever you actually are trying to say.

Cat, the military is not made up of southern christians...
Most people who say they are christan, aren't.
A real christian would renounce all affiliations with any governmental institution and would NEVER sign up for service in a military power.

You've never heard of the 12 crusades?! They strongest believers went of to kill people.

Only evolution and satanism allows murder.
Any one who says otherwise is a liar, you can't be christian, muslim, buddhist, hinduist etc. and kill another human, it just doesn't work.
It would be like calling yourself a vegitarian and eating meat.

Where did you get that Satanism allows MURDER?! Do you even know what the word murder means?

it has a gender..

As I stated above, no it (God) has no gender. He is above this earthly categoration.

Also an all knowing, all powerful god would have no reason to create.

Well, it says God created us on his image (sp?). If we love and want to create life (children), why shouldn't God think the same way? But again, this is just a speculation.

I dismiss Christianity because it is flawed, heavily.

Christianty is a reflection of and led by humans, who are flawed as well. Lol, we're trying our best here. (-_-')
That's the part where Jesus comes in. He kinds said "So like, yeah... Try to be like me and you might be saved if it's enough." Again, we're just humans. It's all far beyond our comprehension...

"They're getting cleaner"? This doesn't justify it, they have to have been completely clean and unaffecting nature from the very start for them to not be a step back in progress.
Anything that affects nature in a destructive way, no matter how little, is really not worth using.

And how do you suppose we get them fully clean..? By not doing anything about it? It's called trial and error.

*more quoting of Elegy*

Couldn't have said it better. If you have a point, prove it or else it's void in a debate.

Ahahahahaha!! Do you know that in the bible it says that it's the job of every Christian to "KILL" homosexuals..? Give me a few seconds, I'll give you the page number...

Yes, she is right. I am Catholic, I know about this. So, stop talking bullshit, Elegy. It says "Burn them alive" or something like that. So not only "kill them", but "torture them" as well. =/ I'm not proud of this part of the Bible as I think it's idiotic.

And cat, evolutionism is the disease, not the other religions.

K, kool. Uhhh I don't know what he thinks about it, but you calling him "Cat" is starting to piss me off.

Agreed. He has a pseudonym here. Calling him "cat" shows that you have no respect to others. Why do you expect us to respect you then?

Evolution is not a religion.

Exactly.

Deliciously_Saucy - I don't like commenting on Religion threads all that much... As I tend to upset the gullable people that love reading chapter after chapter of crap that the bible consists of...

Yeah... and believing it word for word... They really are gullable. =/

I am fed up with world leaders using religion to back their campaigns or reasons... To me Bush saying as he did in your first post, about God telling him to strike Saddam is like him saying Santa told him to do it... To me it's like he has a Mental disfunction.  People in the medical world call it being schizophrenic.

Politcis, Law and running of state in my opinion should NEVER quote a single God or relate to one ethnic or religious standing especially when we live in a multicultual world.

And Bush making that remark is almost saying he is rightious and acting out Gods decessions rather than his own, and in that notion makes him no better than thoughs Detonating them selves in the name of their Gods.

I totally agree on this. But that doesn't mean he CAN'T be a Christian and say he's one. And no, I'm not saying Bush isn't lying, he obviously is.

I back Deliciously_Saucy 110% on this Debate... Sorry all you God loving zombies but wake up, nobody is questioning the exsistance of God, we are saying what place does religion have in politics, and if it does hold ground why does it ?

You know I am against religion in politics directly, since politics should be independent in general. The main problem is that always the minority gets suppressed. If it's an "atheistic state" act won't have to you like they would if you be like they are. This actually goes far further than we may think. This is where ll the racism and nazism comes from. =/ Only because a group of people is in the majority, doesn't mean they are better. =/

Please try to keep your posts consisting of part the topics title
I'm posting this up to show how bad religion can get. Matters like the above should not be connected in anyway to government rulings. Oh and Christians: THIS IS WHAT YOUR FOLLOWING Your book, not mine.

Humans may say it is God's word, but you need to consider 2 things:
1. The laws earlier were much more strict. A good example is this one:
"If the house you have built goes broke and kills the wife of it's owner, your wife will be killed as well." or something similar.
2. Humans wrote it. They could have put in whatever they want. That's why you have to be VERY careful when reading the Bible. =/ It's a book, a book may contain false information. =/ Ataraxy2 summed it up quite good already.

Only evolution and satanism allows murder.

There are no amounts of ellipses that can express my utter shock at your stupidity.

<3

It's what happened to me- my parents are Fundamentalists and brainwashed me into that shit as well. BUT I AM CURED BY THE SAVING GRACE OF THE GODDESS ATHE! Oh glory HALLELUJAH!

Lol, if you didn't know Saucy WAS also once Christian. xD

I'll let you know right now that you quoted parts of the bible that didn't even relate to anything that Christians actually follow, you seriously don't believe they live by a book - word for word. And if you do you've obviously never met a Christian and are mindlessly attacking.

So what you're saying is that Christians don't follow the Bible?

They do. But they don't follow it word for word, but the meaning behind.

So you're saying that a Christian family kills the kids when they swear at them?

Well, they should (unless this is OT stuff). There are parts of the NT that a lot of Christians nowadays would disagree with, such as the part where Jesus says that people can't divorce and remarry because it would be adultery.

It is. As long as your wife is still alive (since it literaly say "until death divorces us"), it's a big sin to be with another woman during that time. You can get divorced on the paper, but only death can get you divorced within the Church. That means you don't have to live with the woman you re married to, yes.

Leaders should act for the better of the public residing in the populus rather than acting on a notion of a devine force or things they claim to hear in their own heads or opinions.

Acting to their own needs is not why they are appointed the power of the people... and the people in most countries now come from ALL religious backgrounds.

I agree, but how can this happen without a new system? If there are things that can be manipulated for personal gain then they will be. What methods can be installed to stop politicians from using religion as a method for vote-gaining?

To finish off my post and keep this on topic, I want to say when I entered this topic I wasn't really sure what to think about this matter, but now I think you are totally right. Nowadays many leaders are abusing religion and therefore State and Church should be separated. I agree. Sadly, I have no idea how to stop them from abusing religion... :=

And I am unlocking this now. Anymore spam/offtopic and I'll just delete it.

OH CRAP! I think this is the longest post be me ever...

You're calling the mutation between a chimp brain and a human brain positive, but there wasn't any mutation since humans never evolved from anything, let alone apes.

And I got the information that people 3000 years ago knew that everything was in essence nothing more than energy from the official doctrines.

My point with saying the scientists discovered it recently is obvious, they aren't discovering new things, they are "discovering" things that intelligent people have known for thousands of years.

That "leave a bottle of water" thing wasn't really thought through was it?
If I leave a bottle of water for a few days bacteria come to the bottle, yes.
If I leave a bottle of rain-water in a vacuum after being distilled to perfection, no bacteria.

I agree with you about evolution not being finished though.

Were people better off 1000 years ago without nuclear weapons, cars, airplanes etc?
Yes, they definately were.

Humans are the stupidest creatures on earth.

You are a human as well.

Ugh, you don't have to rub it in my face.
Being human for the most part is one constant embarassment after another, there are so many pathetic idiots who refuse to grow up in the world, never thinking for themselves, listening to what the government tells them.

And yes, I'm saying humans are no better than animals, yet they aren't animals.
Animals are better than humans.

The part about schools and kids from the US, I didn't get the part, were you saying your school was glorifying the US, were you calling me american?

Evolution doesn't only allow murder, it encourages murder, it's the basics of the whole creed, survival of the fittest.

And cat or whatever, evolution isn't a scientific fact, it's a theory, theres nothing scientific about it.
(Sorry saucy, theres a cat in the picture, but I guess you get offended by that since you're convinced cats and artichokes share a common ancestry with you)

Did you know that any animal poo is destructing the Earth in a no matter how little way? Other than that I have already stated how humans depend on what they have created.

That's called manure.. It makes things grow, not the other way around.

Why can't he? Since now you've only given false or partially false facts. I agree with gonorrhoea (or how you call him: the cat) in the part where he says that you obviously have now idea about evolution. Not knowing about something and telling how it's bad is the greatest ignorance if you didn't know. Oh yes, before you even have time to think up about what to reply to this prt of my post: There is one bigger ignorance; that's when you deny that you're ignorant. And even before you are calling me ignorant, read what I have written above. I am very aware of the polution the human race caused. But that was because they didn't KNOW it would polute the Earth. Here comes the part in that proves that humans DID learn something, since some of them are trying to save the planet.

I'll feature some about this below.
And regarding the trying to save the planet... Too little too late.
If all the power plants closed down, all the cars stopped being driven, all the airplanes stopped flying and all the pollution stopped 10 years ago
it would still be too late, we're fucked.

You've never heard of the 12 crusades?! They strongest believers went of to kill people.

Like I said, they killed, so they're not christian, no matter what they claimed.

The cars and airplanes, you're not supposed to get them fully cleaned, you're supposed to stop using them all together.
But none of that matters anymore, we should all go ahead and buy a V8 car and just drive everywhere, worst case scenario, humanity dies 10-15 years earlier, no big deal.

And cat, evolutionism is the disease, not the other religions.

K, kool. Uhhh I don't know what he thinks about it, but you calling him "Cat" is starting to piss me off.

Agreed. He has a pseudonym here. Calling him "cat" shows that you have no respect to others. Why do you expect us to respect you then?

I call him cat because his avatar has a picture of a cat, at first I didn't bother reading the name so I decided to stick with cat.

And on the topic I never believe any of you will change your mind no matter what I say, and I'm convinced none of you actually believe what is said here makes a difference, people have been arguing about this for a decades, we're not going to end that argument here.

I'm just doing this because I love instigating. (yes I'm a drama whore, big surprise)


And now for saucy, (and a little bit for blizzard too)

All of the quotes you took were from the laws in the old testament, which no longer apply, maybe you should have read up on that before posting it.
Some quotes were even from the Torah, the central creed of Judaism.


The old testament is important, but according to the bible, those laws were abolished by the messiah.
Meaning those laws are not to be followed.
Aswell as the messiah fulfilling the work of the priests, there were no longer any use for them.
Meaning the church is obsolete and no longer a part of real christianity, the church is just bullshit basically.

And I'm not here to prove my theory, (which you don't know anything about I might add, apart from the fact that it's obviously not evolution based) I want you to prove yours.


All I did was to add to the statement You made, where you claimed evolution to be a science and a fact, which it is not.

Micro-evolution (that some animals have different fur color, some are smaller some are bigger etc.) is a fact, and everyone knows that, no religion says otherwise.

But Macro-evolution (that hamsters can feasibly grow on corn stalks, given enough time), stellar evolution, chemical evolution, planetary evolution and organic evolution are merely theories.

I'm not going to prove my beliefs because they are religious, meaning you can't prove them, thats why it's called FAITH and not FACT.

You believe in evolution, theres no evidence that it happened, so you're forced to believe in it, which makes it a religion, or a creed.
But not a fact.

I admit that mine is a religon, I want you to admit that yours is too.

Also an all knowing, all powerful god would have no reason to create.

Buddhas and sentient beings both grow out of One Mind, and there is no other reality than this Mind. It has been in existence since the beginningless past; it knows neither birth nor death; it is neither blue nor yellow; it has neither shape nor form; it is beyond the category of being and non-being; it is not to be measured by age, old or new; it is neither long nor short; it is neither large nor small; for it transcends all limits, words, traces, and opposites. It must be taken just as it is in itself; when an attempt is made on our part to grasp it in our thoughts, it eludes. It is like space whose boundaries are altogether beyond measurement; no concepts are applicable here.

It's a god saucy, it doesn't have to make sense or follow any laws or have a reason for doing things, there is no impossible to a god, it can do whatever it wants to.

Not neccesarry useless, but I agree up to some point. It's a neccessary evil, if we like it or not. There are more and more people on the Earth and somehow we have to manage that. To prove that it's not useless, I ask you, were the people better off 1000 years ago without that? I don't think so.

Elegy seems to think that humanity is in some way utterly destroying the world, that the governments and corporations are all in a big conspiracy to do this AND PEOPLE DON'T EVEN CARE. So we were obviously better off when we weren't negatively affecting the environment.

Also, Blizzard, sorry to get off topic BUT I MUST KNOW, where the fuck do you live anyways?

As for the original topic,

You know, I was taught history in my school about the history of the U.S.A. Do you REALLY believe they taught me such glorious things as the kids in the U.S.A. are taught? School is partially used to manipulate the youth IF YOU DIDN'T KNOW. One more thing such as evolution (like you are claiming) doesn't make a difference, don't you think so?

Eugh, I hate this but there's no way to totally get rid of it. It'd be great if, say, history class was taught from a NPOV, but unfortunately it's been tainted by nationalism and Christianity. American history courses blatantly overlook atrocities that aren't slavery or the massacre/mass eviction of aboriginal tribes. I don't know about the coursework in other nations, of course.

You're calling the mutation between a chimp brain and a human brain positive, but there wasn't any mutation since humans never evolved from anything, let alone apes.

Because, good sir (science hello), humans didn't evolve from apes. Humans and modern ape species both evolved from a common ancestor.

My point with saying the scientists discovered it recently is obvious, they aren't discovering new things, they are "discovering" things that intelligent people have known for thousands of years.

beside that thousands of years ago, people lived in mud huts, believed the Earth is flat, lived up to 40 years and fought tribal wars on a daily basis. And bronze age texts like "Bible" didn't help change that in any way.

Evolution doesn't only allow murder, it encourages murder, it's the basics of the whole creed, survival of the fittest.

Evolution is not a creed, you moron. It is a theory based on a factual observation. If more creatures are born than the environment can sustain, it's normal that a part of them will die, and it's pretty normal the ones unfit to survive will die first. Those who die don't reproduce, so features that helped the other creatures survive in that certain environment will be passed on to their offspring.

What you described is "natural selection", and the key word is natural. It occurs in nature on a daily basis. 40-60% offspring of most animals dies within weeks after birth. It happens even in some poor human communities. No one glorifies that, and in fact no evolutionist would want such a situation. It's just what you get if you let people reproduce without constraint. And who propagates mass procreation? Evolutionists? No, sir, religious fundamentalists.

Like I said, they killed, so they're not christian, no matter what they claimed.

Let me just remark that if christianity wasn't spread through Europe by brutal conquests and the New World through genocides of native religious groups, christianity would die out. Pacifistic faiths like zoroastrianism end up usually destroyed by aggressive faiths like islam. Survival of the fittest on ideological scale, also known as memetic selection.

But Macro-evolution (that hamsters can feasibly grow on corn stalks, given enough time), stellar evolution, chemical evolution, planetary evolution and organic evolution are merely theories.

I don't get it about hamsters. Macro-evolution and micro-evolution and never divided in modern darwinistic fusion theory, and it's only the opponents of evolution who use this (nonsensical) division, because somehow they believe they can get away believing in micro- but not in macro- evolution.

Stellar evolution has nothing to do with evolutionary theory at all and, I guess, you need to check what it is in some dictionary in the near future.

It's a god saucy, it doesn't have to make sense or follow any laws or have a reason for doing things, there is no impossible to a god, it can do whatever it wants to.

Shortly put, the eternal argument that God can do everything. If you can imagine things which can escape the laws of physics, logic and time, why need a God? Let's just say the world itself existed forever and we need no creator.

And I got the information that people 3000 years ago knew that everything was in essence nothing more than energy from the official doctrines.

What?

My point with saying the scientists discovered it recently is obvious, they aren't discovering new things, they are "discovering" things that intelligent people have known for thousands of years.

...What?

whatever, evolution isn't a scientific fact, it's a theory, theres nothing scientific about it.

There's already been evidence given for it, I've yet to see any counterargument. Whatsoever.

(Sorry saucy, theres a cat in the picture, but I guess you get offended by that since you're convinced cats and artichokes share a common ancestry with you)

...Are you in the 6th grade?

I'll feature some about this below.
And regarding the trying to save the planet... Too little too late.
If all the power plants closed down, all the cars stopped being driven, all the airplanes stopped flying and all the pollution stopped 10 years ago
it would still be too late, we're fucked.

I've already addressed this- the environment is changing, it is not being destroyed. Also, many of these changes can be perceived as negative (such as global warming), but it's not THAT hopeless to try and fix things.

Like I said, they killed, so they're not christian, no matter what they claimed.

Why do you fucking judge people like that, eh? Do you know what they're thinking? Also, I've said it before, WAR IS NOT FUCKING MURDER. GOD FUCKING ALLOWS IT IN THE FUCKING BIBLE.

The cars and airplanes, you're not supposed to get them fully cleaned, you're supposed to stop using them all together.

I bet your secret dream car is a Hummer. Does your Mommy drive one?

And on the topic I never believe any of you will change your mind no matter what I say, and I'm convinced none of you actually believe what is said here makes a difference, people have been arguing about this for a decades, we're not going to end that argument here.

We won't change our minds because you're making outlandish claims with no evidence, only by slandering, distorting and ignoring information, and avoiding questions.

I'm just doing this because I love instigating. (yes I'm a drama whore, big surprise)

I bet you have some lovely emo poetry on your MySpace.

The old testament is important, but according to the bible, those laws were abolished by the messiah.

Are Jews not real Jews if they don't follow them, or are they not real Jews if they do kill?

And I'm not here to prove my theory, (which you don't know anything about I might add, apart from the fact that it's obviously not evolution based) I want you to prove yours.

It'd help if you tried to debunk anything we've said, or any of the evidence we've given.

All I did was to add to the statement You made, where you claimed evolution to be a science and a fact, which it is not.

I claimed evolution is a scientific law, not a fact, since there are no solid facts.

Micro-evolution (that some animals have different fur color, some are smaller some are bigger etc.) is a fact, and everyone knows that, no religion says otherwise.

You don't know what microevolution is either. You fail at life.

But Macro-evolution (that hamsters can feasibly grow on corn stalks, given enough time), stellar evolution, chemical evolution, planetary evolution and organic evolution are merely theories.

What the fuck? Corn stalks -> hamsters? Why don't you provide an example that IS feasible, like dinosaurs -> birds.
Stellar evolution? Chemical evolution? What the fucking fuck!?!

I'm not going to prove my beliefs because they are religious, meaning you can't prove them, thats why it's called FAITH and not FACT.

That's a horrible excuse to be ignorant, and why I abandoned Christianity.

You believe in evolution, theres no evidence that it happened, so you're forced to believe in it, which makes it a religion, or a creed.

I hate you. There is fucking evidence for it, you just have to look for it. You can start in this thread. You can go to talkorigins.com. You can just fucking google it.

I admit that mine is a religon, I want you to admit that yours is too.

I would if it was true.

It's a god saucy, it doesn't have to make sense or follow any laws or have a reason for doing things, there is no impossible to a god, it can do whatever it wants to.

Oh shi-

Ps, I'll read Follower of Dawkins' post when I get back, but I must say I know this guy and he's fucking A. He's also not Jesus Hitler.

You're calling the mutation between a chimp brain and a human brain positive, but there wasn't any mutation since humans never evolved from anything, let alone apes.

Why did you even mention it then?

My point with saying the scientists discovered it recently is obvious, they aren't discovering new things, they are "discovering" things that intelligent people have known for thousands of years.

No, not discovering, but proving. Quantum physics wasn't existent 150 years ago. And that IS new. Also, 3000 years ago (or whenever) it was only BELIEVED, it wasn't known that atoms exist.

If I leave a bottle of rain-water in a vacuum after being distilled to perfection, no bacteria.

Of course I meant a CLOSED BOTTLE. And yes, I forgot something.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bacteria

What does bacteria consist of?!

I agree with you about evolution not being finished though.

You've just said, you don't believe it exists. Why can you agree with me if it doesn't even exist according to your earlier posts?

Were people better off 1000 years ago without nuclear weapons, cars, airplanes etc?
Yes, they definately were.

Were people better off 1000 years ago with the plague (yeah, I know it wasn't 1000 years ago, but you get the point), weak economy, no better transporting devices (only horses and such !_!), death because you get a little stronger cold and endless pain because of toothache? You are never considering the other side of the medal.

Ugh, you don't have to rub it in my face.
Being human for the most part is one constant embarassment after another, there are so many pathetic idiots who refuse to grow up in the world, never thinking for themselves, listening to what the government tells them.

These are idiots in general. I don't even talk to people like that. You shouldn't be generalizing.

And yes, I'm saying humans are no better than animals, yet they aren't animals.
Animals are better than humans.

a) Somebody points a gun at you. You tell him to lower the gun.
b) A wild and angry lion is in front of you. You tell him not to attack and kill you.

I dunno about you, but I would prefer situation a). And Humans have something called mind what makes them a better survivor.

The part about schools and kids from the US, I didn't get the part, were you saying your school was glorifying the US, were you calling me american?

I was being on topic (and you should as well), this wasn't directed at you.

Evolution doesn't only allow murder, it encourages murder, it's the basics of the whole creed, survival of the fittest.

If you didn't know, you won't live long if you stop eating now, because killing animals is murdering. And again: Evolution is not a religion! And also you can't "believe" in Evolution and go kill half a million Iraqi (or how many died there...) nd say "Evolution told me.", because that would also mean "We have to eat them all." according to you.

And cat or whatever, evolution isn't a scientific fact, it's a theory, theres nothing scientific about it.
(Sorry saucy, theres a cat in the picture, but I guess you get offended by that since you're convinced cats and artichokes share a common ancestry with you)

Maybe you want to see us again in 48 hours? Either you stop flaming or I'll lock this and you'll get banned. Didn't you say yourself, "There is no need to get mean..."? Oh yes, you did:

Ugh, you don't have to rub it in my face.

Why can't he? Since now you've only given false or partially false facts. I agree with gonorrhoea (or how you call him: the cat) in the part where he says that you obviously have now idea about evolution. Not knowing about something and telling how it's bad is the greatest ignorance if you didn't know. Oh yes, before you even have time to think up about what to reply to this part of my post: There is one bigger ignorance; that's when you deny that you're ignorant. And even before you are calling me ignorant, read what I have written above. I am very aware of the polution the human race caused. But that was because they didn't KNOW it would polute the Earth. Here comes the part in that proves that humans DID learn something, since some of them are trying to save the planet.

I'll feature some about this below.
And regarding the trying to save the planet... Too little too late.
If all the power plants closed down, all the cars stopped being driven, all the airplanes stopped flying and all the pollution stopped 10 years ago
it would still be too late, we're fucked.

Oh you did a whole research on that and now you can predict the future, huh?

You've never heard of the 12 crusades?! They strongest believers went of to kill people.

Like I said, they killed, so they're not christian, no matter what they claimed.

So all the people in the middle age were unbelievers, sure.

And cat, evolutionism is the disease, not the other religions.

K, kool. Uhhh I don't know what he thinks about it, but you calling him "Cat" is starting to piss me off.

Agreed. He has a pseudonym here. Calling him "cat" shows that you have no respect to others. Why do you expect us to respect you then?

I call him cat because his avatar has a picture of a cat, at first I didn't bother reading the name so I decided to stick with cat.

I didn't ask you why you call him cat (it's pretty obvious), but I've told you to show a little bit more respect by at least typing down his name or AT LEAST copy-pasting it, since you seem to like to do that.

And on the topic I never believe any of you will change your mind no matter what I say, and I'm convinced none of you actually believe what is said here makes a difference, people have been arguing about this for a decades, we're not going to end that argument here.

You won't believe it, but I've just said the same about you in my previous post:

Not knowing about something and telling how it's bad is the greatest ignorance if you didn't know. Oh yes, before you even have time to think up about what to reply to this prt of my post: There is one bigger ignorance; that's when you deny that you're ignorant.

(yes I'm a drama whore, big surprise)

Lol, yeah I noticed.

And now for saucy, (and a little bit for blizzard too)

All of the quotes you took were from the laws in the old testament, which no longer apply, maybe you should have read up on that before posting it.
Some quotes were even from the Torah, the central creed of Judaism.
The old testament is important, but according to the bible, those laws were abolished by the messiah.
Meaning those laws are not to be followed.
Aswell as the messiah fulfilling the work of the priests, there were no longer any use for them.
Meaning the church is obsolete and no longer a part of real christianity, the church is just bullshit basically.

*claps* Somebody made his homework. Didn't see that coming.

And I'm not here to prove my theory, (which you don't know anything about I might add, apart from the fact that it's obviously not evolution based) I want you to prove yours.

I'm not here either to prove anything. I am waiting for you to prove yours as well. Dead end, eh?

All I did was to add to the statement You made, where you claimed evolution to be a science and a fact, which it is not.

Billions Millions of people think otherwise. Don't you think you COULD be wrong? And nobody here said Evolution to be a fact. Read the posts better, don't just skim them.

Micro-evolution (that some animals have different fur color, some are smaller some are bigger etc.) is a fact, and everyone knows that, no religion says otherwise.

But Macro-evolution (that hamsters can feasibly grow on corn stalks, given enough time), stellar evolution, chemical evolution, planetary evolution and organic evolution are merely theories.

Lol, this is connected to chemistry which is not a theory.

I'm not going to prove my beliefs because they are religious, meaning you can't prove them, thats why it's called FAITH and not FACT.

Fine. Then you have no right claiming we're all doomed, since you ONLY BELIEVE IT. I'm not telling you "THERE IS A GOD, YOU HAVE TO BELIEVE IN HIM", so you should do the same.

But it's funny how you've suddenly changed your mind, since it was fact all along until now.

You believe in evolution, theres no evidence that it happened, so you're forced to believe in it, which makes it a religion, or a creed.
But not a fact.

It's logical. That's why I say it COULD have happened. Somebody gives you a poisoned glass of milk. You BELIEVE it's normal milk, that makes it a religion?

I admit that mine is a religon, I want you to admit that yours is too.

Yours is not a religion. Are there tenths millions of people who share your view, YOUR EXACT THE SAME VIEW? If not, then it's just a sect. And we all know what sects are. Again, if you didn't read the link from Saladin, do it now.

Also an all knowing, all powerful god would have no reason to create.

Buddhas and sentient beings both grow out of One Mind, and there is no other reality than this Mind. It has been in existence since the beginningless past; it knows neither birth nor death; it is neither blue nor yellow; it has neither shape nor form; it is beyond the category of being and non-being; it is not to be measured by age, old or new; it is neither long nor short; it is neither large nor small; for it transcends all limits, words, traces, and opposites. It must be taken just as it is in itself; when an attempt is made on our part to grasp it in our thoughts, it eludes. It is like space whose boundaries are altogether beyond measurement; no concepts are applicable here.

It's a god saucy, it doesn't have to make sense or follow any laws or have a reason for doing things, there is no impossible to a god, it can do whatever it wants to.

I agree. Take "virtual reality" in consideration. A human (or programmer, whatever) is like a god for the virtual world. He can influence the virtual world IN ANY POSSIBLE way. I believe the same relation exists between reality and God.

Elegy seems to think that humanity is in some way utterly destroying the world, that the governments and corporations are all in a big conspiracy to do this AND PEOPLE DON'T EVEN CARE. So we were obviously better off when we weren't negatively affecting the environment.

I would rather say he's obsessed with that idea. (>.<)

Also, Blizzard, sorry to get off topic BUT I MUST KNOW, where the fuck do you live anyways?

Croatia. It's a small country in Europe.

As for the original topic,

You know, I was taught history in my school about the history of the U.S.A. Do you REALLY believe they taught me such glorious things as the kids in the U.S.A. are taught? School is partially used to manipulate the youth IF YOU DIDN'T KNOW. One more thing such as evolution (like you are claiming) doesn't make a difference, don't you think so?

Eugh, I hate this but there's no way to totally get rid of it. It'd be great if, say, history class was taught from a NPOV, but unfortunately it's been tainted by nationalism and Christianity. American history courses blatantly overlook atrocities that aren't slavery or the massacre/mass eviction of aboriginal tribes. I don't know about the coursework in other nations, of course.

Yeah, I totally know what you mean... It's everywhere the same... They all are trying to brainwash us somehow. Luckily I ended up as a guy who doesn't even have on drop of nationalistic blood in his veins. xD

And <3 for the two posts above me.

Croatia. It's a small country in Europe.

Damn it, the first two thoughts in my mind were 'I have some hot Croat porn.' and 'YOU SPEAK HRVATSKI!?!?' What is wrong with me?
And I love how you immediately explain it. But you should probably say 'It's a Slavic country that broke off from Yugoslavia in the 1990s. Fucking Serbs.' More descriptive, all the countries in Europe that aren't Russia are small.

Sorry, off topic.

If you didn't know, you won't live long if you stop eating now, because killing animals is murdering. And again: Evolution is not a religion! And also you can't "believe" in Evolution and go kill half a million Iraqi (or how many died there...) nd say "Evolution told me.", because that would also mean "We have to eat them all." according to you.

Indeed you can't, but if you did that'd be much awesome.
Also, the only people who seem to subscribe to this 'evolution is a religion' bullshit are Creationists looking to discredit evolution in the same way that evolutionists discredit Creationists.

Hey guys here's some proof for Creation- http://www.drdino.com/

Millions of people think otherwise. Don't you think you COULD be wrong? And nobody here said Evolution to be a fact. Read the posts better, don't just skim them.

A Creationist personality was asked this once and he replied, 'Yes, and that is why I consistently check my Bible to make sure I don't stray.' or something to that effect. I lawled so hard, what a way to miss the point.

Not going to take every question in order, just taking them as I find them.

My faith is shared by no one else but me, same goes for every single human being in existance, theres no two people with the exact same convictions.
That is why creeds exist, to label people, brand them so they can feel some kind of messed up belonging. (I know how important this is to humans)
It's the same thing as nationalism, patriotism and racism (not that there really is a difference between the three, they're all about one group of people being better than everyone else)

You're calling the mutation between a chimp brain and a human brain positive, but there wasn't any mutation since humans never evolved from anything, let alone apes.

Why did you even mention it then?

Because:

I'm just doing this because I love instigating.

I agree with you about evolution not being finished though.

You've just said, you don't believe it exists. Why can you agree with me if it doesn't even exist according to your earlier posts?

Exactly!

a) Somebody points a gun at you. You tell him to lower the gun.
b) A wild and angry lion is in front of you. You tell him not to attack and kill you.

I dunno about you, but I would prefer situation a). And Humans have something called mind what makes them a better survivor.

A lion wouldn't attack you if you didn't intrude on the lions territory, and if you're so stupid that you would march into a lions territory, then you really deserve to be mauled for that.

I was being on topic (and you should as well), this wasn't directed at you.

Good to know, and I am on topic, sort of... Conversations take different turns with time, thats how it works.

So all the people in the middle age were unbelievers, sure.

This was a problem and it's the same problem with the world right now, they listened to their government (which at the time was the catholic church) and didn't think for themselves, I admit it was kinda hard to know what to believe when you couldn't read latin, but people do the same today, soldiers think their government knows best, like they are above normal people... I mean just look at bush, he's below normal people, he has the intellect of a mossy rock, how is he supposed to know whats good for anyone, left alone he would probably have trouble dressing himself in the mornings.

I didn't ask you why you call him cat (it's pretty obvious), but I've told you to show a little bit more respect by at least typing down his name or AT LEAST copy-pasting it, since you seem to like to do that.

I copy and paste big things like that sentence, not names.

*claps* Somebody made his homework. Didn't see that coming.

I know alot of things about alot of things, but you all seem to take my claims as insults and my insults as claims.


You call evolution fact, and a "scientific-law".
If it truly is fact, then you should without any problems be able to prove exactly how it happened beyond reasonable doubt, and account for everything from the start to now.
It's not fact if you can't prove it.

Religion isn't fact, its faith, and no one claims to be able to prove religion, but you claim evolution is a science and thus it should have been proved already, give me the evidence.

Fine. Then you have no right claiming we're all doomed, since you ONLY BELIEVE IT. I'm not telling you "THERE IS A GOD, YOU HAVE TO BELIEVE IN HIM", so you should do the same.

But it's funny how you've suddenly changed your mind, since it was fact all along until now.

I've never claimed religion to be fact, and I have all the right in the world to claim things, just as you do.

It's logical. That's why I say it COULD have happened. Somebody gives you a poisoned glass of milk. You BELIEVE it's normal milk, that makes it a religion?

Then you wouldn't mind showing me the logic behind a theory which claims everything sort of just happened by accident?

...Are you in the 6th grade?

Ah! You got me there

Why do you fucking judge people like that, eh? Do you know what they're thinking? Also, I've said it before, WAR IS NOT FUCKING MURDER. GOD FUCKING ALLOWS IT IN THE FUCKING BIBLE.

Which "fucking" bible have you've been reading, it's one of the 10 commandments, THOU SHALT NOT KILL... It really doesn't get more obvious than that, there are no exceptions.

Really, you're just grasping at straws now..

I bet your secret dream car is a Hummer. Does your Mommy drive one?

I'm not interested in cars, if I want to go somewhere I use these two things called legs, unlike people with Hummers, I'm not a lazy bum.

I bet you have some lovely emo poetry on your MySpace.

You wanna be my myspace buddy?


You don't understand that evolution is just like a religion, rooted in the beginning of life, and for your evolution theory to be called facts, you have to prove EVERYTHING that exists, how stars are formed, how planets are formed, where meteors come from, where everything comes from, and it has to be proof, scientific observation, not just a thought about how it might have been, like that cloud "in a galaxy far far away" that sends out meteors.
Religion claims that a god or gods did it, but thats faith, evolution supposedly isn't and then you can't just claim something, you have to prove it.

And that isn't really easy when you haven't been around from the very beginning.


(I am really enjoying this ^^ so much fun)

So Gonorrhoea, I was just wondering if you've watched the "The Root Of All Evil?" videos linked here.

Your opinion on all of this mirrors mine perfectly, so I don't really have anything else to say.

It's the same thing as nationalism, patriotism and racism (not that there really is a difference between the three, they're all about one group of people being better than everyone else)

No they aren't you fuck. Nationalism is usually taken to mean things such as the Greek nationalist movement, ie they wanted to break themselves from Ottoman rule. Granted, nationalism can also refer to the belief that a particular nation is better than others. Patriotism comes in varying degrees, sensible patriots just love their country- doesn't mean they have a superiority complex! Furthermore, racism is a broad category and is often used to mean not 'one race > another race' but 'this race is different than this race because X Y Z' even though there's no scientific proof (ie, Asians are generally smarter than whites but not better, as whites have other advantages).

A lion wouldn't attack you if you didn't intrude on the lions territory, and if you're so stupid that you would march into a lions territory, then you really deserve to be mauled for that.

See, you're being stupid again. In this case, often the person may not realise what they are doing. Like someone who didn't notice the lions, or a child.

This was a problem and it's the same problem with the world right now, they listened to their government (which at the time was the catholic church) and didn't think for themselves, I admit it was kinda hard to know what to believe when you couldn't read latin, but people do the same today, soldiers think their government knows best, like they are above normal people...

The government is evil and brainwashes everyone. See, all the soldiers in Iraq believe that Bush is infallible!

I mean just look at bush, he's below normal people, he has the intellect of a mossy rock, how is he supposed to know whats good for anyone, left alone he would probably have trouble dressing himself in the mornings.

I wish I could slap you for exaggerating his stupidity and his role in affairs. God, I'm so fucking tired of people bitching about Bush like it means anything.

I copy and paste big things like that sentence, not names.

Just so you know, it's gonorrhoea. Or Gono. Do you know what gonorrhoea is? It's good times in your genitals, you have that much more in terms of sexual pleasure! And your piss never did feel so refreshingly warm.

I know alot of things about alot of things, but you all seem to take my claims as insults and my insults as claims.

No, you don't. Really.

If it truly is fact, then you should without any problems be able to prove exactly how it happened beyond reasonable doubt, and account for everything from the start to now.
It's not fact if you can't prove it.

Haha, wow. Man, you're such a fucktard. I never said it was solid fact, I said it was scientific law, which does NOT mean totally fucking definite. Also, we've already provided information and 'facts' relevant to evolution that you have yet to address. I've asked you at least thrice to, but you haven't. By your logic, that means I'm right and you're wrong.

Religion isn't fact, its faith, and no one claims to be able to prove religion, but you claim evolution is a science and thus it should have been proved already, give me the evidence.

I ALREADY FUCKING DID.
Also, if religious beliefs can't be shown or demonstrated, such as Creationism or the Fatima, why bother believing them? Having blind faith is much more stupid than actually requiring evidence before believing something, especially if you go on to argue about it.

I've never claimed religion to be fact, and I have all the right in the world to claim things, just as you do.

And you've all the right to provide evidence. It'd be fucking wonderful if you did.
You also have all the right to review and criticise what we've provided! It'd be really fucking wonderful if you did.

Then you wouldn't mind showing me the logic behind a theory which claims everything sort of just happened by accident?

Idea: Read a short article about evolution. Hell, read the dictionary definition. I know at church they probably tell you that evolutionists believe everything's just random chance- but we don't. It's years upon years of natural selection and change, little by little.

Ah! You got me there

That insult was 6th grade level, this one is maybe 6/7th.

Which "fucking" bible have you've been reading, it's one of the 10 commandments, THOU SHALT NOT KILL... It really doesn't get more obvious than that, there are no exceptions.

I... can't... stop... laughing...
Seriously you fucktard, it elsewhere justifies warfare, self defence, etc. I'm not sure what the original Hebrew is, but I imagine it's not a word for word translation for the KJV. You don't even know anything about theology?! You don't stop failing at life.

I'm not interested in cars, if I want to go somewhere I use these two things called legs, unlike people with Hummers, I'm not a lazy bum.

Just so you know, legs can't take you everywhere. Nor can bicycles. You'll get tired. Or you'll need speed, or you'll have a heavy load to carry. Oh fuck, you're going to need a VEHICLE. Even if it's not a gas guzzling SUV or truck, you may end up supporting the evil bus system.

You wanna be my myspace buddy?

No, but if you have a Xanga I'll make sure to stop by some time

You don't understand that evolution is just like a religion, rooted in the beginning of life, and for your evolution theory to be called facts, you have to prove EVERYTHING that exists, how stars are formed, how planets are formed, where meteors come from, where everything comes from, and it has to be proof, scientific observation, not just a thought about how it might have been, like that cloud "in a galaxy far far away" that sends out meteors.

You do realise that science requires strenuous study, right? It's not a mythos, it's observable and documented! We do know quite a bit about start and planet formation, and meteor's origins. I'm not all that knowledgeable in astronomy to get in a detailed discussion on the subject, but if you look these up I'm sure you'll find treasure troves of information.
Don't use ignorance to make you look smart. It doesn't work well.

Religion claims that a god or gods did it, but thats faith

Why do you ascribe so much importance to faith? You'd rather believe something just because... because? No evidence, no proof... no nothing?

Silverline, I haven't. Link?

http://www.antonioedward.net/component/option,com_remository/Itemid,28/func,fileinfo/filecatid,50/parent,category

http://www.antonioedward.net/component/option,com_remository/Itemid,28/func,fileinfo/filecatid,49/parent,category

parts 1 & 2 =o

You don't understand that evolution is just like a religion, rooted in the beginning of life, and for your evolution theory to be called facts, you have to prove EVERYTHING that exists, how stars are formed, how planets are formed, where meteors come from, where everything comes from, and it has to be proof, scientific observation, not just a thought about how it might have been, like that cloud "in a galaxy far far away" that sends out meteors.
Religion claims that a god or gods did it, but thats faith, evolution supposedly isn't and then you can't just claim something, you have to prove it.

Until Evolution is proven then it is like a religion, complete bullshit or something that is more than likely false.

Nothing created god. You read all the religious text and they will say god was always there. Then you apply this to science, energy can not be created nor destroyed. This means that energy was always there. If something is born, created, then one day it will die, or be destroyed. i just wanted to say that religion and science go hand in hand. They are basically same thing but religion focus on the sciences to life a proper life, be good, eat right, and so on, in others religion is spirituality. Science is why our world is the way it is, not what is right or wrong. Also, the guy who said he hated god, OKAY! You can believe in god or believe in flying chickens, as long as your intentions are good and your are a good citizen, your faith doesn't not matter. You can be Christian, Hindu, and Muslim, or hate good and do good things. When you go to jail, are they going to ask your faith? Faith is more like a guide. May mistake faith as a rule book but remember we are all different and apply things different. As long as we are good, nothing else matters.

I'm just doing this because I love instigating.

So you're full of shit?

You don't understand that evolution is just like a religion, rooted in the beginning of life, and for your evolution theory to be called facts, you have to prove EVERYTHING that exists, how stars are formed, how planets are formed, where meteors come from, where everything comes from, and it has to be proof, scientific observation, not just a thought about how it might have been, like that cloud "in a galaxy far far away" that sends out meteors.
Religion claims that a god or gods did it, but thats faith, evolution supposedly isn't and then you can't just claim something, you have to prove it.

Read this.

Because Emogy won't answer my responses, there's no point in replying to his.
Next time, answer some fucking questions!

Follower of Dawkins: Your awesome. I have stated many times that no were does the theory of evolution state that we come from "monkeys" but people tend to avoid the hard questions around here. Hello good Sir and welcome to the forums!

As I stated above, no it (God) has no gender. He is above this earthly categoration.

And yet you just placed it in one. I guess it is a man's world eh?

Well, it says God created us on his image (sp?). If we love and want to create life (children), why shouldn't God think the same way? But again, this is just a speculation.

Sadly when there is something that exists outside of scientific law and all boundaries don't apply, all you can do is speculate. I just happen to keep my "speculations" within the laws of physics. I was always told that god created science, and that its laws don't apply to him ( it ). With that said, my reply would always be that scientific law isn't a physical thing, so to speak of, and that it would be necessary for even a god to exist. If there was no law surrounding god, then it wouldn't exist. The law may be different, but it would have to be there. If a god exists, in a place outside of the mind, then its domain would have visible laws, even if they where: there are none.

Of course then you get the other types who say that science and faith go hand in hand, and of course this type of guy likes to say he believes in science, but simply ignores parts and cuts and edits certain wordings to make them fit in. It's done in the same fashion of cheating at a jigsaw puzzle.

I feel that when a Christian debates about science fitting in with their faith, it's like a fat guy telling you to eat healthy.

Christianty is a reflection of and led by humans, who are flawed as well. Lol, we're trying our best here. (-_-')
That's the part where Jesus comes in. He kinds said "So like, yeah... Try to be like me and you might be saved if it's enough." Again, we're just humans. It's all far beyond our comprehension...

Lol, you made Jesus sound like a surfer dude.

"It's all far beyond our comprehension", this is just another brick wall answer used to back up lack of evidence, just like "He always existed". I don't respect it.

You know I am against religion in politics directly, since politics should be independent in general. The main problem is that always the minority gets suppressed. If it's an "atheistic state" act won't have to you like they would if you be like they are. This actually goes far further than we may think. This is where ll the racism and nazism comes from. =/ Only because a group of people is in the majority, doesn't mean they are better. =/

Yes but Atheism only teaches about gaining evidence for ideas and ignoring ones that exist on speculation and faith. We just don't feel the idea of a god is plausible enough to entertain.

Don't worry I get what your saying, you mean that if the positions where reversed then we would do to them ( in a sense ) as they did to us. Well, yeah, that most likely would happen, but I feel it's simply one of the steps in the progress of man. It's really nothing more then natural selection, no? A small change for the better, spreading out into the large.

I feel in a few decades that the term "Atheist" wont exist. I believe that it will simply be the norm' and no one would consider them selves to be that. The only downside to this is that Christians could use this as "Satan's 2000 year rain" and still believe in their faith...

Humans may say it is God's word, but you need to consider 2 things:
1. The laws earlier were much more strict. A good example is this one:
"If the house you have built goes broke and kills the wife of it's owner, your wife will be killed as well." or something similar.
2. Humans wrote it. They could have put in whatever they want. That's why you have to be VERY careful when reading the Bible. =/ It's a book, a book may contain false information. =/ Ataraxy2 summed it up quite good already.

1) I thought god had direct manipulation of what went into the bible. Why would he allow something that is only directed at a specific time period?

2) Of course they wrote it, but wasn't it written with the divine influence of god to be infallible?

To finish off my post and keep this on topic, I want to say when I entered this topic I wasn't really sure what to think about this matter, but now I think you are totally right. Nowadays many leaders are abusing religion and therefore State and Church should be separated. I agree. Sadly, I have no idea how to stop them from abusing religion... :=

And I am unlocking this now. Anymore spam/offtopic and I'll just delete it. Angry

Well I'm glad this topic could help you decide. :drphil: I don't feel that you have to be an Atheist to agree that church and state should be fully separate and I thank you for showing that. When it comes down to it, politicians are abusing your faith for their own personal needs which is quite wrong, there really needs to be something done about it. :/drphil:

Thanks for unlocking it, I fell asleep in the spa... ...

Indeed you can't, but if you did that'd be much awesome.
Also, the only people who seem to subscribe to this 'evolution is a religion' bullshit are Creationists looking to discredit evolution in the same way that evolutionists discredit Creationists.

Completely agree, loled at the proof.

So you're full of shit?

Lol. Did it need to be pointed out..?


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EDIT;

Matthew 5:17-19 "Jesus strongly approves of the prophets. He hasn't the slightest objection to the cruelties of the old testament".

Lol, if you didn't know Saucy WAS also once Christian. xD

Shhhh..! >_<

Actually I think being Christian for that part of my life was very helpful. Like now I can tell people I'm not stubborn ....

I remember the day that I disowned my faith, it was like a cloud was lifted from my mind. Previously I developed a huge interest in things of a scientific nature ( math, astronomy ) and developed a new way of thinking, ie: asking questions. I tried mixing the two ( science and religion ) and it obviously clashed quite badly, at the time I felt quite insane, and one day in another self exploring moment it suddenly dawned on me that the simplest answer was that there is no god. I brought this up to say that I rejected the idea of god for the right reasons ( I developed a brain ) compared to those who denounce it because of a tragedy in their lives, like losing a loved one. 

gonorrhoea, how did you lose your faith?

I know this guy and he's fucking A. He's also not Jesus Hitler.

Yeh I don't think Jesus Hitler would say "good sir" . I requested a few times that they un-ban JH but I don't think they will, I miss him.