This was a question that came up in my mind while reading some of the info I was putting on a church website.
You guys believe Jesus was SON of god. He had a mother, but no real father. Well what about Adam? you guys beelive adam was the first man to be created on earth, and he had no father OR mother, so why isn't he son of god as well? makes more sense then Jesus imo.
The answer to your question is: "It's a religion."
Comprehende?
See, these people have to first exist before we can get philosophical about who their parents are.
Technically, he would be a son of God, as all human beings are supposed to be children of God. Jesus is considered special because he is God. At least, I think that's the idea.
Modern Algebra is correct.
I wonder how this is treated by Christians who don't believe in the Trinity (in fact, I don't really know what those guys believe).
oh snap Jesus IS god to the Christians? like GOD GOD...wow. So he is son of god and at the same time god himself, and came out of a woman he created, and talked about himself in third person. 0_0
Quote from: Nouman on July 23, 2007, 12:05:33 AM
This was a question that came up in my mind while reading some of the info I was putting on a church website.
You guys believe Jesus was SON of god. He had a mother, but no real father. Well what about Adam? you guys beelive adam was the first man to be created on earth, and he had no father OR mother, so why isn't he son of god as well? makes more sense then Jesus imo.
In Christianity, we're all the children of god. The answer that "Jesus was the son of God and that's what made him special lol" is an answer that doesn't rely on the most defining aspect of Christianity that separates Catholicism from Gnosticism: The Trinity. Because this statement does not rely on the Trinity, it should be taken as a grain of salt.
Adam was a lump of clay that received a breath of life, the spirit. We all have that spirit, they say. Jesus Christ, however, was the
Logos (in Latin, this is referred to as the
filius, the son), created with the creation of the universe, who was sent down to Earth to save mankind.
I was going to tell you that this really isn't the place to intelligently discuss religion, but
Quote from: voice of reason on July 23, 2007, 03:52:20 AM
Quote from: Nouman on July 23, 2007, 12:05:33 AM
This was a question that came up in my mind while reading some of the info I was putting on a church website.
You guys believe Jesus was SON of god. He had a mother, but no real father. Well what about Adam? you guys beelive adam was the first man to be created on earth, and he had no father OR mother, so why isn't he son of god as well? makes more sense then Jesus imo.
In Christianity, we're all the children of god. The answer that "Jesus was the son of God and that's what made him special lol" is an answer that doesn't rely on the most defining aspect of Christianity that separates Catholicism from Gnosticism: The Trinity. Because this statement does not rely on the Trinity, it should be taken as a grain of salt.
Adam was a lump of clay that received a breath of life, the spirit. We all have that spirit, they say. Jesus Christ, however, was the Logos (in Latin, this is referred to as the filius, the son), created with the creation of the universe, who was sent down to Earth to save mankind.
Win.
Another thing I don't understand is how you use [LORD] to talk about god, but at the same time you say "lord jesus christ" so in fact jesus was god himself?
also Jesus did not apoint anyone or even MENTION anyone to continue his touch after he died, so who decided "hey i'm pope".
Another thing was that Jesus never mentioned he was there to make a religion, Christianity was made after he died to worship him? I believe he never said he wanted a religion to worship him.
Last thing...how come after the time of the cross in INDIA a year or so later they have records of jesus in the country, and in fact have a tomb of jesus?
Edit:
http://www.christiananswers.net/kids/ednk-jesusgodorman.html
i'm not sure, but did jesus say any of that himself or was that made up after he died? Also from what I believe the bible was never meant to become the book of a religion, instead it was records.
ok so jesus is god in a human who died for sins of people and went back and stayed human and will come again, but at the same time has a grave on earth and came out of a woman.
QuoteThese are called miracles. He made dead people alive. He walked across a great lake. He made blind eyes see perfectly again. He healed deadly diseases with a word.
ya...they are called MIRACLES, they are given by GOD, other prophets did miracles as well but yet they aren't god are they?
Quote from: Nouman on July 23, 2007, 03:10:16 PM
Another thing I don't understand is how you use [LORD] to talk about god, but at the same time you say "lord jesus christ" so in fact jesus was god himself?
Yes, the Christian system of worship is based on the holy trinity; the father (Yahweh/Jehovah/etc..) the son (Jesus) and the holy spirit (sadly I'm not up to scratch with the definition of the 'holy spirit').
The trinity is separate yet one at the same time, i.e; the
one 'God', yet there is actually three unique beings. So simply yes, Jesus is god, or an (equal) aspect of god at the minimum.
Quotealso Jesus did not apoint anyone or even MENTION anyone to continue his touch after he died, so who decided "hey i'm pope".
Uh, I can take a stab at this. Christians say the Apostle Peter was the first pope (although this may be under debate). He was selected by Jesus as the leader of the church.
QuoteAnother thing was that Jesus never mentioned he was there to make a religion, Christianity was made after he died to worship him? I believe he never said he wanted a religion to worship him.
Christianity wouldn't really be a 'new' religion, in the eyes of the Christians anyway. Jesus came as the prophesied king of the Jews (although rejected by them) in order to correct
"the mistakes of the past", so to say... If (
if) Jesus did not ask for a religion, that's really the only path that could happen.
The Christian account in simplicity would be; he came saying he was the son of god, under the authority of god and here to null and void the old-skool-rules. From how I recall it, he did indeed want a religion, although I may be wrong~
QuoteLast thing...how come after the time of the cross in INDIA a year or so later they have records of jesus in the country, and in fact have a tomb of jesus?
I'm not too sure, I personal believe that
IF Jesus existed, the account of his life and travels are fictionist or over-dramatised.
thanks for the reply ^^
Quote"The most remarkable thing about the tomb is that it is known not only as the tomb of Nabi Sahib, but also as that of Isa Sahib. Mirza Bashir-ud-Din Mahmud Ahmad, son of the Promised Messiah [referring to Ghulam Ahmad], paid a visit to the tomb in July last; and when he asked an old woman, the last survivor of a long line of the hereditary attendants of the tomb, whose tomb it was, she replied: 'It is the tomb of Isa Sahib.' Being asked why she called it the tomb of Isa Sahib, while the Maulvis [Islamic clergy] believed Isa to be in the heavens, she said, 'Let them believe what they will. The name [Isa] is the one which we have been hearing from our forefathers.'"
In this account its clear that prior to the authorship and publication of Ghulam Ahmad's book, Jesus In India, there had been no fuss over this tomb of "Isa Sahib." The name Isa is the word used in the the Quran, for Jesus, and also in Buddhist works. It appears this being the 'Tomb of Jesus' was not seen as something surpriing and significant to those living near the tomb.
There existed no anti-Christian organization or anti-Christian movement that, for instance, was attempting to strike at Christianity "in the name of Islam." No one in the area had been making any attempt to announce this to the world. The fact that "Isa Sahib" lay in the Roza Bal was nothing extraordinary to the people, other than the fact that he was considered a prophet
http://www.tombofjesus.com/2007/india/possible_route.html
well of course in my religion we believe Isa (jesus) was a prophet of god, BUT was not the son of god and had never claimed to be so. He had said that he is "son of god" BUT also said stuff like we are all children of god and everyone is a brother and sister to each other. That means he talked about himself as son of god as a relationship with him and god, not REALLY the son of god since he talked about everyone being children of god.
Quote from: Nouman on July 23, 2007, 03:10:16 PMok so jesus [...] has a grave on earth and came out of a woman.
Jesus was born "pure", i.e. he was conceived without the sin of sex. He had to be born this way because a normal conception requires sin (sex), which leaves you with the taint of Original Sin. Jesus had to be spiritually pure or else the sacrifice he made (his life) would be worthless.
Jesus was only in his tomb for three days. After that he was resurrected and rose to Heaven while he was still alive.
Quoteya...they are called MIRACLES, they are given by GOD, other prophets did miracles as well but yet they aren't god are they?
Those prophets never claimed to be God.
As a mormon kid I was told that we are all god's (heavenly father's) children, jesus included. When god saw the world fucking up or something, Jesus was one of those children that volunteered / was selected or something to go down to atone for everyone's sins. Or something like that.
Afterwards, he gets some special deal in the afterlife or something. I'm not sure, I've done a good job of forgetting everything I was taught as fact re: this stuff as a kid. Either way, the mormon story isn't far off at all from plain old christianity.
Last words:
Quote"Father forgive them, for they do not know what they are doing." Luke 23:34
why did he again talk about himself in that way?
Jesus performed miracles. (Mark 3:9-10)
Muhammad could not perform miracles. (Qur'an 29:49)Lets look at that. The bible was written by a man who witnessed the miracles while the Quran is the word of god himself. If the Quran was written by a man who witnessed Muhammad's miracles then surely it would say he DID perform miracles. BUT since it's the word of god it means he could not on his own do these things, but god gave him the power to perform the miracles.
QuoteJesus proved that he is God by doing many things that only God could do. These are called miracles. He made dead people alive. He walked across a great lake. He made blind eyes see perfectly again. He healed deadly diseases with a word.
http://www.jews-for-allah.org/Muhammad-and-Judaism/miracles-of-mohammed.htm
yes god GAVE jesus the powers to do the miracles he performed when he did, just as he gave the same powers to Muhammad, but we don't believe he is god for performing them.
Jesus Hitler
QuoteThose prophets never claimed to be God.
Quote from: Nouman on July 23, 2007, 05:03:50 PM
well of course in my religion we believe Isa (jesus) was a prophet of god, BUT was not the son of god and had never claimed to be so. He had said that he is "son of god" BUT also said stuff like we are all children of god and everyone is a brother and sister to each other. That means he talked about himself as son of god as a relationship with him and god, not REALLY the son of god since he talked about everyone being children of god.
Okay, where do you want to go with this? I can say "Christians believe this," and you can say "Muslims believe that," all night. What is there to debate?
Just as a correction, sex isn't considered a sin by any religion I know of. Extramarital sex is, but other than that it isn't.
Also, Jesus doesn't refer to himself in the third person when he says Father, the concept of the trinity is essentially that there are three distinct persons in one God. Specifically they are all one God, but they relate to each other in different ways and they relate to humanity in different ways. One of the mysteries that most Christians believe in is this: One God, three persons. The Father did not create Jesus, nor did he create the Holy Spirit. Another mystery believed in in mainstream Christianity is the plurality of Jesus, both 100% man and 100% God, whereas neither the father or the holy spirit maintain this plurality.
As to claiming he was God, Jesus did make that claim, here: In John 8:58, Jesus states, "Before Abraham was, I am,". There are others too, but I don't have a bible on hand. Basically, Jesus does claim to divinity. Some say that it nmakes no sense to believe in Jesus as a righteous man if you do not believe this claim, as no righteous man would claim he is God.
And as for the pope thing (and founding a church), only one denomination believes in the pope, catholicism. Their backing for this is this passage:
Matthew:
11 Simon Peter said in reply, "You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God."
Jesus said to him in reply, "Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah. For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my heavenly Father.
And so I say to you, you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of the netherworld shall not prevail against it. "
And the above passage is also a claim to divinity.
Quote from: modern algebra on July 23, 2007, 06:09:47 PMJust as a correction, sex isn't considered a sin by any religion I know of. Extramarital sex is, but other than that it isn't.
It was my understanding that original sin was passed down through the generations through the act of sex.
I'd like to get some more info on the trinity thing.
Did Jesus himself explain the whole thing about trinity? how he was one of the three distinct persons in one total God? or was it said after he had died?
lol, well technically yes, for someone to have original sin they must in fact be born (and thus someone had to have sex), but the act of sex itself is not considered (at least in Catholicism, I don't know too much about other denominations of CHristianity) a progenitor(? that's not right, I am thinking of another word) of original sin. And, someone born through in vitro fertilization (or other artificial birthing methods) is also considered to be born with original sin.
However, Mary is believed to have been born without original sin, though she was produced in typical fashion. (The Mystery of the Immaculate Conception; believed solely by Catholics I think).
But yeah, one way to end original sin would be for everyone to have no children I guess :lol:
@Nouman: I do not believe it is stated explicitly by Jesus, no. There are passages where all 3 are depicted, for instance the Baptism in the Jordan:
Quote from: Matthew 3: 12-13After Jesus was baptized, he came up from the water and behold, the heavens were opened (for him), and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove (and) coming upon him.
And a voice came from the heavens, saying, "This is my beloved Son, with whom I am well pleased."
Quote from: Nouman on July 23, 2007, 05:17:29 PM
Last words:
Quote"Father forgive them, for they do not know what they are doing." Luke 23:34
why did he again talk about himself in that way?
jesus is gods son he was sent from heavens to forgive our sins jesus and god are not the same person god does not have a human form but jesus did
what religion are you? and how about you modern?
Sex in itself is not a sin at all. The perversion of it by doing it to just gain pleasure is where the sin lies. God should like sex more than we do. Hell, he created it. He gave it to us for our use but we decided to make it a bad thing (by the standards of a Christian).
Correct, sex witin marriage is actually an excellent thing to do (as said by God somewhere)
BUT, sex OUTSIDE of marriage is a sin.
He encourages sex, you just have to be married.
Quote from: Nouman on July 23, 2007, 09:29:09 PM
what religion are you? and how about you modern?
I am catholic "and how about you modern" im not sure what that means
Quote from: Forcystus on July 23, 2007, 10:55:52 PM
Correct, sex witin marriage is actually an excellent thing to do (as said by God somewhere)
BUT, sex OUTSIDE of marriage is a sin.
He encourages sex, you just have to be married.
QuotePassage Genesis 1:28:
28And God blessed them and said to them, Be fruitful, multiply, and fill the earth, and subdue it [using all its vast resources in the service of God and man]; and have dominion over the fish of the sea, the birds of the air, and over every living creature that moves upon the earth.
Here you go.
Also, I don't think Mary was born with sin. Jesus was the only one without sin, however -
Quote34And Mary said to the angel, How can this be, since I have no [intimacy with any man as a] husband?
35Then the angel said to her, The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you [like a shining cloud]; and so the holy (pure, sinless) Thing (Offspring) which shall be born of you will be called the Son of God.(H)
is how Jesus was able to be born through her. Since making people without intercourse is obviously not out of God's power. It's similar to the way Jesus' blood makes us pure. It's not how great we are or Mary was, but how great He is.
Quote from: irish-warrior on July 23, 2007, 11:42:21 PM
I am catholic
It's quite obvious that the one who asked you this didn't read your posts relevant to Irish republicanism, or he would've known this, eh?
Also by "how about you modern" he was asking the same to Modern Algebra.
From what I remember, Jesus is the human form of god...I think that's how it went.
But his father was supposedly a roman solider.
Quote from: SirJackRex on July 26, 2007, 12:46:45 AM
From what I remember, Jesus is the human form of god...I think that's how it went.
But his father was supposedly a roman solider.
jesus human father was a carpenter joseph
God embodied himself in Jesus, Christ God on earth... But Jesus self proclaimed himself to be the Son of God, it was his disciples that wrote him as God walking the earth within Jesus.
But I get what your saying Nouman, it does make very little sense... Adam was one of Gods Supposed first creations, and he lived for 800 years or so... Much longer than Jesus, and God watched him for many a year, and had in-depth conversations with him...?
The bible also goes on about how God is in each and every one of us, but we are not God... And we are all children of God and should there by call him Farther...
The bible has many contradictions and odd bits, for the simple reason it's written by many people with many different opinions.
Quote from: landofshadows on July 29, 2007, 12:27:54 AMBut Adam was one of Gods Supposed first creations,
Adam was one of God's
last creations.
Quote from: Jesus Hitler on July 30, 2007, 04:34:02 AM
Quote from: landofshadows on July 29, 2007, 12:27:54 AMBut Adam was one of Gods Supposed first creations,
Adam was one of God's last creations.
Yeah, I'm pretty sure he made people last.
Well Islam says that if God created Adam with no mother or father, why wouldn't he create Jesus with a mother without a father ? why would ppl assume that Jesus is son of god ?
Quran basically rejects Trinty by all means, it says God is one, and Jesus is just another prophet like any other, and he didn't die..
Quote from: Dark Dragon X on July 30, 2007, 05:13:14 AM
Well Islam says that if God created Adam with no mother or father, why wouldn't he create Jesus with a mother without a father ? why would ppl assume that Jesus is son of god ?
Quran basically rejects Trinty by all means, it says God is one, and Jesus is just another prophet like any other, and he didn't die..
Thank you. We would be unable to understand Christianity and especially the Trinity without knowing what Islamic scholars think about it.
Oh come on, Christianity is OBVIOUSLY manipulated, we ALL know that
and frankly, I wouldn't have worshiped god if god can be killed
I'm not saying my beliefs, I'm saying facts
Quote from: Dark Dragon X on July 30, 2007, 06:07:03 AM
Oh come on, Christianity is OBVIOUSLY manipulated, we ALL know that
and frankly, I wouldn't have worshiped god if god can be killed
I'm not saying my beliefs, I'm saying facts
Quote from: Jesus Hitler on July 23, 2007, 05:23:24 PM
Okay, where do you want to go with this? I can say "Christians believe this," and you can say "Muslims believe that," all night. What is there to debate?
Looks like DDX is one of those people who can clearly see how stupid all the religions are, but has a blind spot towards his own :P
QuoteYeah, I'm pretty sure he made people last.
So your saying he made nothing after people...?
(He Made Earth and the stars and pretty much every thing else then just stopped after 7 days... LAZY BASTARD..., He is a Bastard he has no Farther, and he is Lazy if your right in saying Adam was his last creation, what has he done for the last 4,000 years?)So any new creatures we find now he didn't make, and therefore Evolution made them... So why is it not possible that Evolution made pretty much every thing we see now and God had nothing to do with anything....?
You see If I was to follow christianity I would like to think God has moved away from our solar system is working on another planet... But I am not... I find it funny though how bible followers can see that God made every thing in 7 days yet he desided to flood it and destory it in 40... does he like tourturing things ?... He had the power to change it in 7 days really... But did he, nope...!!!
It's all storys and hear say... No religion is correct... Here I can make a religion in the best part of a few days:-
[spoiler]More of a mind expanding exercise really... The quickest way to become rich is to make a religion... My RPG Game has it's own religion built into it.
I found it fun, but at the same taxing to think of a new religion.
Here's mine:-
Name:- 8 (Infinite)
Darkness had always been a constant, until Darkness wondered how long he would be alone, and in that thought he created Time, Time and Darkness where alone until Darkness created his opposite light, light being young to the other Gods and full of creative idea's dotted darkness with stars, and once doing this in turn created Earth, Water & Fire... Soon after they created Wind... Time felt left out as he had not created, he decided he would make a start and created zodiac... With the main Gods Time, Darkness & Light, and the demi Gods Earth, Water, Fire and Wind, Zodiac fitted in fairly well keeping the demi gods and time related... Zodiac felt he would create, not Gods or immortals but creatures and life, he choose planets that had many of the demi Gods attributes and started creating. Soon life continued creating life... The Gods almost being forgotten and seen as nothing more than simple energies felt it was time to sample life and cast parts of them selves into the shape of the most intelligent of creature on the planet, each lead cultures, some worshipped the sun, others darkness...Some favoured the Earth... New races and new idea's grew from this... The Djinn being the ultimate creation with knowing and acceptance of the Gods was favoured for many years, until they clashed over who's God was the most powerfull, War spread like wild fire, the Gods could only watch as life starting destroying life, displeased they cast the Djinn into another realm free from solid form so they could not bring harm to one another. After many years the Demi Gods attempted a new breed of the Djinn, one with more heart and love for life, they created Man... Man still had the Djinn's tendencies of self preservation and war did take place, but not on the same scale as those seen as truly evil the Djinn... The Djinn feeling scorned and jealous of the new race found ways of latching on to weak minded people, people with a slightly higher level of hate in their hearts, to the point they could control their thoughts. Some of these people would claim to hear voices and undertake the sickest of tasks at the Djinn's bidding. Should man ever become bitter the Djinn in their billions await to take their souls to the dimension of the Djinn's to become a play thing as they pull it apart in their hatered of Man, and the Gods that loved Man them so much. As long as you live a life with out hatered an after life in the energy amongst the Gods awaits you in the fabric of time, helping create new life thought the universe.
I guess I have to have some commandments.
1. Treat those how you wish to be treated
2. Try not to hate your fellow Man, as that will lead to the way of the Djinn
3. Respect the creations of the Gods
4. Should you do not follow the scripture Infinite trust in your self and follow your heart, you need not text to guide you
5. Confront hatered with compassion and understanding, for the Djinn should be respected and feared
6. Do what makes you happy unless it harms others
Most parts I have taken from various religions and the above is just the basic bones of it... But I think it's pretty cool for an RPG game.
Idea Founded by Steve Giles & Pieter Johnson (Game:- Legend of the Fallen)[/spoiler]
Quote from: landofshadows on July 30, 2007, 12:18:10 PM
So any new creatures we find now he didn't make, and therefore Evolution made them... So why is it not possible that Evolution made pretty much every thing we see now and God had nothing to do with anything....?
Well yes, that is why religion is so flawed, that is why you are an atheist, why are you debating the plausibility of what the bible is referring to ?_?
I really don't get where you're coming from. If you want to debate things that can actually be debated in a scientific relation, like whether Jesus existed or historical accuracies of the bible, then please do, but if you want to debate the meaning or different interpretations and accounts of religions, then;
Quote from: JHOkay, where do you want to go with this? I can say "Christians believe this," and you can say "Muslims believe that," all night. What is there to debate?
uh I'm not sure if this is the right topic to say this, but do you seriously think that I would be a Muslim if I didn't see a proof ?
I wouldn't join ANY religion what so ever if I don't see a proof, I was searching for like 1 year, and I search in SCIENTIFIC stuff, and when I mean science I mean science, like Maths, Biology and Geology
anyway, no-one can say Jesus was a lier either, it's just people manipulated the truth, Jesus was a prophet and he said Muhamed was coming and said nothing but the truth, if there's someone to blame , it isn't Jesus, it's the @#$% that came after him
and lol, I don't even have to prove my point, half of the people here know what I said
I'm sorry if that was considered a spam
QuoteWell yes, that is why religion is so flawed, that is why you are an atheist, why are you debating the plausibility of what the bible is referring to ?_?
I am saying Adam was not the son of God, and showing that Evolution has more chance of being the more plausible chain of events that created man...
Quotedifferent interpretations and accounts of religions
That's the problem the Bible can be interpreted any way the reader See's fit... And the story of Adam and Eve is such a bad one... I mean God Punishes the snake by saying "You shall now crawl on your belly for all your days"... So could the snake fly before that ?...LOL
We all supposedly have God within us, and we all have to reffer to him as Farther... So in a sense we are all his children and all brothers and Sisters... Really it's not much of a question, rather a matter of opinion...
Was Adam Gods first son, Yes... (If you go by the bible and we all being his children, Adam was the first)
Jesus was just the first fruity loop to self proclaim to be the Son of God, as Mary had no answer for her Slappery as to who spawned him.
Quoteuh I'm not sure if this is the right topic to say this, but do you seriously think that I would be a Muslim if I didn't see a proof ?
I wouldn't join ANY religion what so ever if I don't see a proof, I was searching for like 1 year, and I search in SCIENTIFIC stuff, and when I mean science I mean science, like Maths, Biology and Geology
anyway, no-one can say Jesus was a lier either, it's just people manipulated the truth, Jesus was a prophet and he said Muhamed was coming and said nothing but the truth, if there's someone to blame , it isn't Jesus, it's the @#$% that came after him
and lol, I don't even have to prove my point, half of the people here know what I said
I'm sorry if that was considered a spam
(Jesus was from Arab lands, and the Muslims would have a better understanding in this matter who Jesus was, as too would the Jew's as Jesus Self proclaimed to be the king of them... Both religions of the area regards Jesus as a Prophet and nothing more... Christians paint Jesus to have had white skin and Blue eye's, this too is a false hood, Jesus would have looked more like an Arab man and had tanned skin and dark eye's, if I had to choose a religion based on plausability I too would go with the Muslim Faith, not the extreamist version though).
Just a side note on Adam; It's a mistranslated word, it's not a name, it simply means "man". When god created 'Adam' he didn't create one man, he created all.
Quoteuh I'm not sure if this is the right topic to say this, but do you seriously think that I would be a Muslim if I didn't see a proof ?
First, what 'proof'?
Second, everyone, in every religion say, know and feel proof in their religion, do you really think that people of other religions don't have the same kind of proof that you have? Do you actually think that deep down inside them they think; "I know that my, non-muslim religion is actually false, but I'm just going to stick with it despite my heavy doubt"?
People of other faiths have the EXACT same belief and conviction in their faith as you do in yours.
This being the case, what makes your supposed "proof" so much better then theirs?
All religions have thier good points and bad points, all have major holes and all have good strong basis of faith and respect of others...
I don't think any one religion is BETTER than another or more CORRECT, if anything has a single hole in it, then in my eye's it's WRONG.
The Bible I think has more holes in it than any other as it had so many writters.
I think for a clearer picture of what religion is correct you should look at the Rosetta Stone, look at the languages written upon that, then look into each of their tribes and look at who they worshipped, as being some of the most adavnaced early man to have language on this planet they would have the best idea's as how we all sarted... The estimate on age given to the stone is 305 BC to 30 BC.
Here is what was written:-
[spoiler]
QuoteIn the reign of the new king who was Lord of the diadems, great in glory, the stabilizer of Egypt, and also pious in matters relating to the gods, superior to his adversaries, rectifier of the life of men, Lord of the thirty-year periods like Hephaestus the Great, King like the Sun, the Great King of the Upper and Lower Lands, offspring of the Parent-loving Gods, whom Hephaestus has approved, to whom the Sun has given victory, living image of Zeus, Son of the Sun, Ptolemy the ever-living, beloved by Ptah;
In the ninth year, when Aëtus, son of Aëtus, was priest of Alexander and of the Savior Gods and the Brother Gods and the Benefactor Gods and the Parent-loving Gods and the God Manifest and Gracious; Pyrrha, the daughter of Philinius, being athlophorus for Bernice Euergetis; Areia, the daughter of Diogenes, being canephorus for Arsinoë Philadelphus; Irene, the daughter of Ptolemy, being priestess of Arsinoë Philopator: on the fourth of the month Xanicus, or according to the Egyptians the eighteenth of Mecheir.
THE DECREE: The high priests and prophets, and those who enter the inner shrine in order to robe the gods, and those who wear the hawk's wing, and the sacred scribes, and all the other priests who have assembled at Memphis before the king, from the various temples throughout the country, for the feast of his receiving the kingdom, even that of Ptolemy the ever-living, beloved by Ptah, the God Manifest and Gracious, which he received from his Father, being assembled in the temple in Memphis this day, declared:
Since King Ptolemy, the ever-living, beloved by Ptah, the God Manifest and Gracious, the son of King Ptolemy and Queen Arsinoë, the Parent-loving Gods, has done many benefactions to the temples and to those who dwell in them, and also to all those subject to his rule, being from the beginning a god born of a god and a goddess—like Horus, the son of Isis and Osirus, who came to the help of his Father Osirus; being benevolently disposed toward the gods, has concentrated to the temples revenues both of silver and of grain, and has generously undergone many expenses in order to lead Egypt to prosperity and to establish the temples... the gods have rewarded him with health, victory, power, and all other good things, his sovereignty to continue to him and his children forever.[4]
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They had many God's... They seem to the first people to have religion documented and recorded, why has their system been forgotten and lost to time...?
I mean Horus was the Son of Isis, and Isis was one of the first Godess's to have mention, Horus was then said to be the Sun God, and many back then saw the Sun as the most powerful thing govening most of world change... Their not far wrong...!!!
Any way all the above is well off topic... All I am trying to get at, as depending on what religon you look at the Son of God Differs Greatly, so why not start with the oldest religion to gain your answers.
Because Adam got old when he had Children so he forgot about his parents,
And jezus fell of the stairs and thought God was his father.
Simple as that
QuoteAnd jezus fell of the stairs and thought God was his father.
Simple as that
Jesus was told by Mary (Who legged it from her village to give Birth in a secret location for fear of being stoned to death) that he had no Farther and a Magical Angel came and told her God was to make her pregnant... She felt dirty and wrong so made a story of purity and worth to make Jesus feel better, like any mother would... It could be that Jesus was conceived during a rape of Mary, and Mary had no choice but to flee and concoct a story... I don't know her full reasons, but tell any child that they are born from an angel or a gift from god for long enough they will soon have it in their heads as truth... As your mother to you as a child is God, and who are you to question your own mother at the age and time of Jesus's childhood... Jesus was human, there was nothing saintly about him or his Birth, there is no proof Mary was a Virgin, and nothing to back her story... The bible is based solely on that, her word... The bible starts there, every thing before that is hear say, that written amongst it's pages and delusions from prophets false and elected.
I have read the Bible and the above is the way I interpreted it... I likened it to modern times... and asked why at every chapter... Why did mary flee ?... Why did Mary state she saw an angel ?... Why did Jesus proclaim to be the son of God ?...
All good questions any one with common sense would ask whilst reading such tripe.
Back to Topic:-
AdamAdam in the terms written in the bible was the first man created by God, we all have God in us and all regarded as his children, so Adam in actual fact was the first child made of God
JesusIs more likely to be a Prophet going by the MAJORITY of people within the area he grew up in, a great man who shouldn't have been put to the cross... A Martyr... But by the Bibles writtings by a MINORITY the true son of God or God within a human form.
My opinionNeither as the Bible is a book written long after Man walked the Earth... And the Universe is Much older than the bible has written... The biggest hole in the Bible is it's time line.
Quote from: Dark Dragon X on July 30, 2007, 05:13:14 AM
Well Islam says that if God created Adam with no mother or father, why wouldn't he create Jesus with a mother without a father ? why would ppl assume that Jesus is son of god ?
Quran basically rejects Trinty by all means, it says God is one, and Jesus is just another prophet like any other, and he didn't die..
umm...
"and he didn't die.."
Islam says he DID die, but not on the cross. He was removed from the cross and taken away, then again taken somewhere else because they feared for his life. He went traveled and eventually died in India. Just too many Muslims don't believe in even that part :P
funny how most (I think every branch except mine) believe Jesus is returning because Mohammad said in dark times of islam a person (promised Messiah) will come after his death and lead the right people....so on so forth and some more text... But he will not be prophet since well of course all Muslims believe Mohammad was the las prophet of god as he claimed and is written in the Quran. So of course I my branch believes Mirza Ghulam Ahmad was that man and he later investigated and came to conclusion the grave in India is that of Jesus.
Quote from: Dark Dragon X on July 30, 2007, 06:07:03 AM
I wouldn't have worshiped god if god can be killed
I'm not saying my beliefs, I'm saying facts
:3 you said Jesus did NOT die....
And I still wonder if Jesus himself said trinity or was that added in by someone else?