EW religion topic yes (random question)

This was a question that came up in my mind while reading some of the info I was putting on a church website.

You guys believe Jesus was SON of god. He had a mother, but no real father. Well what about Adam? you guys beelive adam was the first man to be created on earth, and he had no father OR mother, so why isn't he son of god as well? makes more sense then Jesus imo.

The answer to your question is: "It's a religion."
Comprehende?

See, these people have to first exist before we can get philosophical about who their parents are.

Technically, he would be a son of God, as all human beings are supposed to be children of God. Jesus is considered special because he is God. At least, I think that's the idea.

Modern Algebra is correct.

I wonder how this is treated by Christians who don't believe in the Trinity (in fact, I don't really know what those guys believe).

oh snap Jesus IS god to the Christians? like GOD GOD...wow. So he is son of god and at the same time god himself, and came out of a woman he created, and talked about himself in third person. 0_0

This was a question that came up in my mind while reading some of the info I was putting on a church website.

You guys believe Jesus was SON of god. He had a mother, but no real father. Well what about Adam? you guys beelive adam was the first man to be created on earth, and he had no father OR mother, so why isn't he son of god as well? makes more sense then Jesus imo.

In Christianity, we're all the children of god. The answer that "Jesus was the son of God and that's what made him special lol" is an answer that doesn't rely on the most defining aspect of Christianity that separates Catholicism from Gnosticism: The Trinity. Because this statement does not rely on the Trinity, it should be taken as a grain of salt.

Adam was a lump of clay that received a breath of life, the spirit. We all have that spirit, they say. Jesus Christ, however, was the Logos (in Latin, this is referred to as the filius, the son), created with the creation of the universe, who was sent down to Earth to save mankind.

I was going to tell you that this really isn't the place to intelligently discuss religion, but

This was a question that came up in my mind while reading some of the info I was putting on a church website.

You guys believe Jesus was SON of god. He had a mother, but no real father. Well what about Adam? you guys beelive adam was the first man to be created on earth, and he had no father OR mother, so why isn't he son of god as well? makes more sense then Jesus imo.

In Christianity, we're all the children of god. The answer that "Jesus was the son of God and that's what made him special lol" is an answer that doesn't rely on the most defining aspect of Christianity that separates Catholicism from Gnosticism: The Trinity. Because this statement does not rely on the Trinity, it should be taken as a grain of salt.

Adam was a lump of clay that received a breath of life, the spirit. We all have that spirit, they say. Jesus Christ, however, was the Logos (in Latin, this is referred to as the filius, the son), created with the creation of the universe, who was sent down to Earth to save mankind.

Win.

Another thing I don't understand is how you use [LORD] to talk about god, but at the same time you say "lord jesus christ" so in fact jesus was god himself?

also Jesus did not apoint anyone or even MENTION anyone to continue his touch after he died, so who decided "hey i'm pope".
Another thing was that Jesus never mentioned he was there to make a religion, Christianity was made after he died to worship him? I believe he never said he wanted a religion to worship him.

Last thing...how come after the time of the cross in INDIA a year or so later they have records of jesus in the country, and in fact have a tomb of jesus?

Edit:

http://www.christiananswers.net/kids/ednk-jesusgodorman.html

i'm not sure, but did jesus say any of that himself or was that made up after he died? Also from what I believe the bible was never meant to become the book of a religion, instead it was records.

ok so jesus is god in a human who died for sins of people and went back and stayed human and will come again, but at the same time has a grave on earth and came out of a woman.

These are called miracles. He made dead people alive. He walked across a great lake. He made blind eyes see perfectly again. He healed deadly diseases with a word.

ya...they are called MIRACLES, they are given by GOD, other prophets did miracles as well but yet they aren't god are they?

Another thing I don't understand is how you use [LORD] to talk about god, but at the same time you say "lord jesus christ" so in fact jesus was god himself?

Yes, the Christian system of worship is based on the holy trinity; the father (Yahweh/Jehovah/etc..) the son (Jesus) and the holy spirit (sadly I'm not up to scratch with the definition of the 'holy spirit').

The trinity is separate yet one at the same time, i.e; the one  'God', yet there is actually three unique beings. So simply yes, Jesus is god, or an (equal) aspect of god at the minimum.

also Jesus did not apoint anyone or even MENTION anyone to continue his touch after he died, so who decided "hey i'm pope".

Uh, I can take a stab at this. Christians say the Apostle Peter was the first pope (although this may be under debate). He was selected by Jesus as the leader of the church.

Another thing was that Jesus never mentioned he was there to make a religion, Christianity was made after he died to worship him? I believe he never said he wanted a religion to worship him.

Christianity wouldn't really be a 'new' religion, in the eyes of the Christians anyway. Jesus came as the prophesied king of the Jews (although rejected by them) in order to correct "the mistakes of the past", so to say... If (if) Jesus did not ask for a religion, that's really the only path that could happen.

The Christian account in simplicity would be; he came saying he was the son of god, under the authority of god and here to null and void the old-skool-rules. From how I recall it, he did indeed want a religion, although I may be wrong~ 

Last thing...how come after the time of the cross in INDIA a year or so later they have records of jesus in the country, and in fact have a tomb of jesus?

I'm not too sure, I personal believe that IF Jesus existed, the account of his life and travels are fictionist or over-dramatised.

thanks for the reply ^^

“The most remarkable thing about the tomb is that it is known not only as the tomb of Nabi Sahib, but also as that of Isa Sahib. Mirza Bashir-ud-Din Mahmud Ahmad, son of the Promised Messiah [referring to Ghulam Ahmad], paid a visit to the tomb in July last; and when he asked an old woman, the last survivor of a long line of the hereditary attendants of the tomb, whose tomb it was, she replied: ‘It is the tomb of Isa Sahib.’ Being asked why she called it the tomb of Isa Sahib, while the Maulvis [Islamic clergy] believed Isa to be in the heavens, she said, ‘Let them believe what they will. The name [Isa] is the one which we have been hearing from our forefathers.’”

In this account its clear that prior to the authorship and publication of Ghulam Ahmad’s book, Jesus In India, there had been no fuss over this tomb of “Isa Sahib.” The name Isa is the word used in the the Quran, for Jesus, and also in Buddhist works. It appears this being the 'Tomb of Jesus' was not seen as something surpriing and significant to those living near the tomb.

There existed no anti-Christian organization or anti-Christian movement that, for instance, was attempting to strike at Christianity “in the name of Islam.” No one in the area had been making any attempt to announce this to the world. The fact that “Isa Sahib” lay in the Roza Bal was nothing extraordinary to the people, other than the fact that he was considered a prophet

http://www.tombofjesus.com/2007/india/possible_route.html

well of course in my religion we believe Isa (jesus) was a prophet of god, BUT was not the son of god and had never claimed to be so. He had said that he is "son of god" BUT also said stuff like we are all children of god and everyone is a brother and sister to each other. That means he talked about himself as son of god as a relationship with him and god, not REALLY the son of god since he talked about everyone being children of god.

ok so jesus [...] has a grave on earth and came out of a woman.

Jesus was born "pure", i.e. he was conceived without the sin of sex. He had to be born this way because a normal conception requires sin (sex), which leaves you with the taint of Original Sin. Jesus had to be spiritually pure or else the sacrifice he made (his life) would be worthless.

Jesus was only in his tomb for three days. After that he was resurrected and rose to Heaven while he was still alive.

ya...they are called MIRACLES, they are given by GOD, other prophets did miracles as well but yet they aren't god are they?

Those prophets never claimed to be God.

As a mormon kid I was told that we are all god's (heavenly father's) children, jesus included. When god saw the world fucking up or something, Jesus was one of those children that volunteered / was selected or something to go down to atone for everyone's sins. Or something like that.

Afterwards, he gets some special deal in the afterlife or something. I'm not sure, I've done a good job of forgetting everything I was taught as fact re: this stuff as a kid. Either way, the mormon story isn't far off at all from plain old christianity.

Last words:

"Father forgive them, for they do not know what they are doing." Luke 23:34

why did he again talk about himself in that way?

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Jesus performed miracles. (Mark 3:9-10)
 Muhammad could not perform miracles. (Qur'an 29:49)

Lets look at that. The bible was written by a man who witnessed the miracles while the Quran is the word of god himself. If the Quran was written by a man who witnessed Muhammad's miracles then surely it would say he DID perform miracles. BUT since it's the word of god it means he could not on his own do these things, but god gave him the power to perform the miracles.

Jesus proved that he is God by doing many things that only God could do. These are called miracles. He made dead people alive. He walked across a great lake. He made blind eyes see perfectly again. He healed deadly diseases with a word.

http://www.jews-for-allah.org/Muhammad-and-Judaism/miracles-of-mohammed.htm

yes god GAVE jesus the powers to do the miracles he performed when he did, just as he gave the same powers to Muhammad, but we don't believe he is god for performing them.

    Jesus Hitler

Those prophets never claimed to be God.

well of course in my religion we believe Isa (jesus) was a prophet of god, BUT was not the son of god and had never claimed to be so. He had said that he is "son of god" BUT also said stuff like we are all children of god and everyone is a brother and sister to each other. That means he talked about himself as son of god as a relationship with him and god, not REALLY the son of god since he talked about everyone being children of god.

Okay, where do you want to go with this? I can say "Christians believe this," and you can say "Muslims believe that," all night. What is there to debate?

Just as a correction, sex isn't considered a sin by any religion I know of. Extramarital sex is, but other than that it isn't.

Also, Jesus doesn't refer to himself in the third person when he says Father, the concept of the trinity is essentially that there are three distinct persons in one God. Specifically they are all one God, but they relate to each other in different ways and they relate to humanity in different ways. One of the mysteries that most Christians believe in is this: One God, three persons. The Father did not create Jesus, nor did he create the Holy Spirit. Another mystery believed in in mainstream Christianity is the plurality of Jesus, both 100% man and 100% God, whereas neither the father or the holy spirit maintain this plurality.

As to claiming he was God, Jesus did make that claim, here: In John 8:58, Jesus states, "Before Abraham was, I am,". There are others too, but I don't have a bible on hand. Basically, Jesus does claim to divinity. Some say that it nmakes no sense to believe in Jesus as a righteous man if you do not believe this claim, as no righteous man would claim he is God.

 And as for the pope thing (and founding a church), only one denomination believes in the pope, catholicism. Their backing for this is this passage:

Matthew:
11 Simon Peter said in reply, "You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God." 
Jesus said to him in reply, "Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah. For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my heavenly Father.
And so I say to you, you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of the netherworld shall not prevail against it. "

And the above passage is also a claim to divinity.

Just as a correction, sex isn't considered a sin by any religion I know of. Extramarital sex is, but other than that it isn't.

It was my understanding that original sin was passed down through the generations through the act of sex.

I'd like to get some more info on the trinity thing.

Did Jesus himself explain the whole thing about trinity? how he was one of the three distinct persons in one total God? or was it said after he had died?

lol, well technically yes, for someone to have original sin they must in fact be born (and thus someone had to have sex), but the act of sex itself is not considered (at least in Catholicism, I don't know too much about other denominations of CHristianity) a progenitor(? that's not right, I am thinking of another word) of original sin. And, someone born through in vitro fertilization (or other artificial birthing methods) is also considered to be born with original sin.

However, Mary is believed to have been born without original sin, though she was produced in typical fashion. (The Mystery of the Immaculate Conception; believed solely by Catholics I think).

But yeah, one way to end original sin would be for everyone to have no children I guess  

@Nouman: I do not believe it is stated explicitly by Jesus, no. There are passages where all 3 are depicted, for instance the Baptism in the Jordan:

After Jesus was baptized, he came up from the water and behold, the heavens were opened (for him), and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove (and) coming upon him.
And a voice came from the heavens, saying, "This is my beloved Son, with whom I am well pleased."

Last words:

"Father forgive them, for they do not know what they are doing." Luke 23:34

why did he again talk about himself in that way?

jesus is gods son he was sent from heavens to forgive our sins jesus and god are not the same person god does not have a human form but jesus did

what religion are you? and how about you modern?

Sex in itself is not a sin at all. The perversion of it by doing it to just gain pleasure is where the sin lies. God should like sex more than we do. Hell, he created it. He gave it to us for our use but we decided to make it a bad thing (by the standards of a Christian).

Correct, sex witin marriage is actually an excellent thing to do (as said by God somewhere)
BUT, sex OUTSIDE of marriage is a sin.

He encourages sex, you just have to be married.

what religion are you? and how about you modern?

I am catholic   "and how about you modern" im not sure what that means

Correct, sex witin marriage is actually an excellent thing to do (as said by God somewhere)
BUT, sex OUTSIDE of marriage is a sin.

He encourages sex, you just have to be married.

Passage Genesis 1:28:
28And God blessed them and said to them, Be fruitful, multiply, and fill the earth, and subdue it [using all its vast resources in the service of God and man]; and have dominion over the fish of the sea, the birds of the air, and over every living creature that moves upon the earth.

Here you go.

Also, I don't think Mary was born with sin. Jesus was the only one without sin, however -

34And Mary said to the angel, How can this be, since I have no [intimacy with any man as a] husband?

    35Then the angel said to her, The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you [like a shining cloud]; and so the holy (pure, sinless) Thing (Offspring) which shall be born of you will be called the Son of God.(H)

is how Jesus was able to be born through her. Since making people without intercourse is obviously not out of God's power. It's similar to the way Jesus' blood makes us pure. It's not how great we are or Mary was, but how great He is.