For four desperate months, Kevin Davies was locked in a garden shed where he was beaten, burned and given potato peelings to eat.
The vulnerable 29-year-old, who had epilepsy and learning difficulties, was let out only to act as a household slave for his captors.
His family were unaware of his suffering because he called his mother to say he was keeping well.
Finally, the starving prisoner collapsed dying on his tormentors' kitchen floor and police discovered a diary kept by one of them which outlined the appalling way he had been treated.
it really makes you think what kind of world we live in the three that took place in this only got 10 years in jail
i think they should be hung
is our current law fair on both criminals and the innocent?
I think that some people learn while they are in prison, and they need to keep close tabs on them if they let them out, because they may say that they changed, and they might have, but having a taste of the real world again might lead then back to various crimes, ect.
Quote from: BlackZoneOne on July 18, 2007, 02:11:09 AM
I think that some people learn while they are in prison, and they need to keep close tabs on them if they let them out, because they may say that they changed, and they might have, but having a taste of the real world again might lead then back to various crimes, ect.
but these arent normal people these are some kind of sick animals
Victim Kevin Davies was beaten with sticks, burned with a hot knife and starved so harshly he lost three stone.
He was freed only to help with household chores. His blood was found on the ceiling, walls and furniture at the home of his tormentors.
Thats why I said some. You really asked about how fair the criminal justice system is, and some people who commit some crimes should be released after a fair time, but anytime someone tortures someone like that for any amount of time should be locked up for life. Im sure someone who does stuff like that would probably enjoy death, so spending 22 hours in a cell by yourself in a super-max prison would be worse than death.
People like that are inhuman, and therefore, should not be given human privileges, like, prison, or a painless and quick death.
Do we really need another thread like this?
Here's What I would do to those people:-
(https://rmrk.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi178.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fw267%2Flegendofthefallen%2FUntitled-1-2.png&hash=ffad6bb4de4ab2d2100f68c500eb7b35a7b58bde)
Place them in a tank of Slat water, with spikes around the top, cuffed ankles and wrists... Let them choose a box each day 1, 2, 3... (Fresh boxes each day)... And add the contents to the tank.
It could be a Jelly fish, Star Fish, Tube Worms, Spotted Puffer fish, Crab & Dogwelck - My fav (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dog_whelk) = Basically flesh eating snails.
All are small and will consume you slowly, you can eat them to say alive... If you want to stay alive... Or you could head butt the spikes around the tank to kill yourself, but that would take a fair few attempts...
You could use the spikes to help keep your upper body out of the water by impailing your arms up, but that would cause bleeding and that would would help hypothermia settle in... Any cuts will sting with the salt... Should the puffers die they will release Poisson's (in small amounts) same with the Jelly fish... It's a slow death and a nasty one, well suited for those that would harm an innocent person.
Darn I should make Saw 4...
(How to escape... Use the links in the cuff's to bend the spikes as flat as possible, the water keeps your weight fairly low (Buoyancy), use you arms to lift your self over the bent spikes and drop out of the tank...)
What the HELL?
GTFO. You fail immediantly. :GTFO:
Who thinks of that kind of stuff?!
Creative thinking... It's not like I would actually do it.
People think of this stuff all the time... Like the Saw films.
Thinking it and doing it are different things all together, all I am saying is an eye for an eye should apply.
QuoteI think that some people learn while they are in prison, and they need to keep close tabs on them if they let them out, because they may say that they changed, and they might have, but having a taste of the real world again might lead then back to various crimes, ect.
The only thing people learn in prison is how to get away with next time... Or meet new people to aid them in their crimes... That is if they don't get let out for good behaviour, or like in England right now get let out as the prisons are over crowded... I think the punishment should suite the crime...
Britain should make more penal colonies in this situation.
Also, although I don't think it's "sick" or whatever that you've thought that up, it is rather interesting to note the double-standard there. Governments aren't supposed to do that shit, now are they? It leads to things that aren't good, and I'm sure you can think of why without further explanation.
QuoteIt leads to things that aren't good, and I'm sure you can think of why without further explanation.
Yeah I know what happens... Desensitization... If media isn't doing that already... The world we live in is going to shite, not much shocks people any more... Kidnapping and torture on this scale is rife... May be my suggestion is over the top...
But at the same time imagine that Kid mentioned in the first post was your Kid, or Brother... Is ten years enough ?
My idea is a little extream... But I think a painless death is a little to good for people who drew out such suffering... They kept a diary... that shows conviction and calculation... To document it and read it would have hit a truth that it was on going... And as the person carrying out those acts and documenting them shows a level of inhumanity that deserves in my opinion an inhuman death.
I didn't say that 10 years was enough. And I also didn't mean desensitization, it's just that most people feel uncomfortable with the idea of their governments trying to think of the most gruesome and excruciating punishments for "horrendous" criminals that they can. I wouldn't want my kid brother being punished that way anymore than I would want him being tortured and used as a house bitch.
Quote from: landofshadows on July 18, 2007, 11:33:11 PM
QuoteIt leads to things that aren't good, and I'm sure you can think of why without further explanation.
Yeah I know what happens... Desensitization... If media isn't doing that already... The world we live in is going to shite, not much shocks people any more... Kidnapping and torture on this scale is rife... May be my suggestion is over the top...
But at the same time imagine that Kid mentioned in the first post was your Kid, or Brother... Is ten years enough ?
My idea is a little extream... But I think a painless death is a little to good for people who drew out such suffering... They kept a diary... that shows conviction and calculation... To document it and read it would have hit a truth that it was on going... And as the person carrying out those acts and documenting them shows a level of inhumanity that deserves in my opinion an inhuman death.
another thing is the three that did this horrible act 2 were men and the other was a woman the woman was the leader she bought the shed and it was her idea but since she is a woman she only got nine years i think thats bull shit she should suffer no matter male or female
Quoteshe bought the shed
For some reason that made me laugh... Not sure why at first... I think the Shed was his point of Solace... I mean the shed, people would hear him scream, as you say the blood was in the house...
Placing your self in some one else's shoes thinking of your self in their postion, as sick as it may be is the only way to understand evil... Judges should try it when passing sentence.
people used to be hung drawn and quartered back in the day, or placed on the rack... Many world leaders have thought many a contraption for pulling peoples souls apart.
Not saying it's right now, but for some reason it was right then... and back then, people had a higher amount of respect for one and another... even your worst enemy, it would be pistols at dawn, or a fencing match... No drive-by's... No Stabbing in the back.... Nothing like that.
The World we live in is not a nice place... the minority that make it a horrid place to live should be treated as they treat others.
I believe Gandhi said something along the lines of "An eye for an eye leaves everyone blind."
However, those were also societies in which infrastructure was less well developed, there were very different political/religious/moral views and of course a different situation, &c. One of the problems with this is, it's bad PR. Another is, it's a bad idea. Especially for quesy people like Americans and their fellow Europeans, where there are more ideals relevant to restrained government and fair treatment of people (although what this entails has varied from time to time and nation to nation).
I wouldn't cry "Autocracy!" or anything if such a thing were to come to pass (although many others would), but I think that's overstepping a strongly emplaced boundary.
I suppose taking some ones life for taking another's is kind of lowering you down to their level...
QuoteI believe Gandhi said something along the lines of "An eye for an eye leaves everyone blind."
If he said that, then respect due Gandhi !!!...
I think Judges are too soft and send out the wrong signal's... The police do a great job, and to have court pass such a low level of justice upon the guilty must be very frustrating... Not only that keeping scum in prison costs the tax payer a fair amount of cash... one persons prison costs out weighs my Mortgage per month.
Prison if I was a country's head would not be an option, there would be no prison... It costs too much.
There would be a direct punishment... There would be a detention centre while awaiting trail, and should you confess while there you get half the punishment when seen by the court... Punishment would range from drug trails (Replace animal testing with human testing)... Hard labour (Refuse collection, railway work, building, Conscription to the Army, In in the worst scenario death with Organ donation....
Petty crimes like theft, every thing you own will be taken from you and sold at auction, you will be given 10% and told to start over, all other goods go to the party you stole from.
In-sighting terror in the country that houses you would cause you and your immediate family to ALL be deported.
Murder = worst scenario (Child killing, torture like the fourmentioned) death with Organ donation
ABH & GBH = Conscription to the Army
Vandalism = building and contraction jobs
Car Jacking = railway work
Hard labour = Cheating benefits or fraud
Just a few examples...
Quote from: landofshadows on July 19, 2007, 12:27:55 AM
I suppose taking some ones life for taking another's is kind of lowering you down to their level...
QuoteI believe Gandhi said something along the lines of "An eye for an eye leaves everyone blind."
If he said that, then respect due Gandhi !!!...
I think Judges are too soft and send out the wrong signal's... The police do a great job, and to have court pass such a low level of justice upon the guilty must be very frustrating... Not only that keeping scum in prison costs the tax payer a fair amount of cash... one persons prison costs out weighs my Mortgage per month.
Prison if I was a country's head would not be an option, there would be no prison... It costs too much.
There would be a direct punishment... There would be a detention centre while awaiting trail, and should you confess while there you get half the punishment when seen by the court... Punishment would range from drug trails (Replace animal testing with human testing)... Hard labour (Refuse collection, railway work, building, Conscription to the Army, In in the worst scenario death with Organ donation....
Petty crimes like theft, every thing you own will be taken from you and sold at auction, you will be given 10% and told to start over, all other goods go to the party you stole from.
In-sighting terror in the country that houses you would cause you and your immediate family to ALL be deported.
Murder = worst scenario (Child killing, torture like the fourmentioned) death with Organ donation
ABH & GBH = Conscription to the Army
Vandalism = building and contraction jobs
Car Jacking = railway work
Hard labour = Cheating benefits or fraud
Just a few examples...
i couldnt have put it better myself but define terrorism?
Quote from: landofshadows on July 19, 2007, 12:27:55 AM
I think Judges are too soft and send out the wrong signal's... The police do a great job, and to have court pass such a low level of justice upon the guilty must be very frustrating... Not only that keeping scum in prison costs the tax payer a fair amount of cash... one persons prison costs out weighs my Mortgage per month.
Dude, penal colonies.
QuotePrison if I was a country's head would not be an option, there would be no prison... It costs too much.
You could cut out social services programs if you want to be frugle.
QuoteThere would be a direct punishment... There would be a detention centre while awaiting trail, and should you confess while there you get half the punishment when seen by the court... Punishment would range from drug trails (Replace animal testing with human testing)... Hard labour (Refuse collection, railway work, building, Conscription to the Army, In in the worst scenario death with Organ donation....
What shitty laborers, hm? Putting mostly unskilled criminals to do pretty much anything that's more complicated than picking up litter will have undesireable results- because they'll do a very poor job. Similarly, I wouldn't particularly want criminals in the Army, because they have low morale, are prone to war crimes (bad PR), and are in general not good soldiers (and many will take their newly acquired skills merely to commit the same or perhaps even other crimes when they're out of service as well).
Quotebut define terrorism?
One man's terrorist is another mans freedom fighter... I have nothing against those protecting their own.
I have a problem with people being given a home and trust by a country to turn on that country and attack them... That's bitting the hand that feeds... That's what I mean...
For Freedom fighters / Terrorists, that's a matter of opinion and what side your on... I mean Israels is a terrorist state in the eyes of Iran.
Swearing loyalty to a country makes you part of that nation and to set out to destroy that, that's when you should be dealt with !!
QuoteI wouldn't particularly want criminals in the Army, because they have low morale, are prone to war crimes (bad PR), and are in general not good soldiers (and many will take their newly acquired skills merely to commit the same or perhaps even other crimes when they're out of service as well).
Front line... Cannon fodder... Land mine sweepers... if they are no good... Not all that commit crimes are dead heads... Set them a target, should they complete 3 missions they get sent home, that would up moral.
Quotepretty much anything that's more complicated than picking up litter will have undesirable results
The great train robbery was taken on by some pretty clever criminals... Most that commit crimes are under the age of 30, able bodied with average intellect... Or so most figures show... But that said you have a point, I wouldn't want to live in a house made by convicts... I think keeping their tasks away from the general public would have to be enforced.
You want to deport terrorists to nations where there are people of like mind, which would also have the side effect of multiplying your opposition?
Smart cookie.
QuoteYou want to deport terrorists to nations where there are people of like mind, which would also have the side effect of multiplying your opposition?
Smart cookie.
Would they commit the crime if they knew they would be dragging their family back with them ?
Again you raise a valid point, but should they then try and get back in the country we have seen their faces, and spotting one that we have deported could save an actual attack should they attempt re-entry. And I would rather they learn Terrorist techniques in their own home land rather than have our society pay for their training here.
If the threat is out of the country they then have to bring the threat to us... it's one extra catchment net.
Um, terrorists are devout enough to "drag" their families along back to their homelands, as if they were the worst possible place to live!
Also, these guys are intelligent. Don't underestimate them- deporting them will only cause them to multiply. Knowing their faces means nothing, they can still hide, and also there's the threat of others coming due to their influence (it happened to the US with MS-13, a Central American gangster organization).
seaking is right if michael collins had not been deported to wales by the british goverment he would never have been taught to be a rebel and there would be no irish republic so deporting doesnt always work as planned
Britain can't deport people within their own borders, deary.
Quote from: Seaking on July 19, 2007, 01:28:46 AM
Britain can't deport people within their own borders, deary.
yes they can from ireland to wales
Humm... So it's a case of keep your friends close but your enemies closer... in your opinion...
And that's a well likened term through out history... one that I can relate to.. I would rather see my enemy than have him stab me in the back.
But at the same time, placing the terrorist outside of your boarder still can buy you time and give one extra area for catching them... I think deporting the one handed Cleric from England was the best thing we could have done in that circumstance. (His name eludes me now)...
It's like the 9/11 hijackers they learnt to fly the planes on USA soil... That's a kick in the teeth and an embarrassment.
...Or you could imprison them when you catch them?
That costs too much money... May be if we sold all they own to pay for their imprisonment ?
Or use them for animal testing ?...
There are other options I suppose... Prison is a joke in England.
Prisons aren't that expensive, especially if you consider the cost it takes to (usually unsuccesfully) fight terrorists instead of detain them.
This is turning into a way "all around" topic. Shouldn't ID only have one topic, you guys are jumping from prison to terrorists and all that. Topics should focus on one or two points, not the "whole world we live in" topic, right?
Also, am I the only that's nervous about how LoS is so quick to the idea of using people for animal testing? :/
Although I'd rather use a terrorist than a kitty :((
I heard it costs around £400 per month per criminal in prison... that's a fair amount, considering our prisons are full already.
Prison is falling here... The USA's Prisons are much more of a prevention than the ones here... Here you can have PS3's and NET access in your cell (Low risk criminals or drug offenders).
QuoteAlthough I'd rather use a terrorist than a kitty (
My thoughts exactly... Innocent animal or Nasty terrorist or rapist....?
QuoteThis is turning into a way "all around" topic. Shouldn't ID only have one topic, you guys are jumping from prison to terrorists and all that. Topics should focus on one or two points, not the "whole world we live in" topic, right?
Back to topic...
Oh what an evil we place we have here... Oh what ever shall we do... I know lets wear chain mail !!!
Ok... Seriously...
We are talking about ways to prevent or deter events like the one originally posted about...
Prisoners... have PS3s? You silly Europeans 9_9
Also, I wasn't being serious about the kitty. Animals are animals, they are utilities.
QuoteAlso, I wasn't being serious about the kitty. Animals are animals, they are utilities.
We are mamals... Some more expendable than others... Scum I wouldn't loose a night sleep over if they helped cure cancer after Murdering or Raping some one, at least their death wouldn't be pointless compared to the life they robbed or destroyed... Any way most will just come away from it blinded or badly scared...
The point in not punishing people like that (testing, horrible tank) is to show that we are a developed society that does not need to stoop to such a level. If we did things like that, it would only be a matter of time before the general populace considered such acts as justice. People won't be able to gauge how right or wrong something is anymore, and would continue to push for more cruel and more excruciating punishment. At that point, whose to tell you when you've gone too far? LOS's tank is nothing compared to some of the things I've thought up. Relatively, his punishment would be seen as the easy way out after a while, and would drop to the bottom of the scale. Then, all petty shoplifters and pickpockets would be submitted to his horrible contraption for the rest of their lives.
Though it pains us so, we must consider the implications of punishment. Yes, I agree that these three should have gotten a life sentence, but we cannot allow ourselves to lash out unrestrained at evil- we must keep separated from that which we so hate, and in doing so, emerge victorious over it.
I think the courts and the current justice system is no real deterant... There is no real deterant... Crime prevention is very little, cops like to catch people after the crime just so people get the harshest treatment from the judge... Some things I think are a little backwards in coming forwards... I mean with criminals, a robber jumps over you fence and lands on a gardening tool that rips his leg open, he can then proscute you... WHAT THE HECK is that all about...!!
The Law needs a complete restructure.
No, we just need to get smart. I don't think it's so much that that thief is allowed to prosecute, so much as we can't stop him. If we can find a way to define that type of prosecution, and then define why its wrong, then submit that knowledge, he shouldn't be able to do that anymore.
Yeah, LoS, because our countries are so lawless and disorderly. If you think our justice system is inefficient then you are quite the utopian, and this becomes evermore evident when you compare Britain to pretty much any Third World nation.
Sorry I don't understand... Utopia was a fictional place... I am not sure I follow you ?...
Prisioners being let out before serving a full sentence due to overcrowding:-
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/2265791.stm
My Story
[spoiler]I was attacked once, by a group of Lads (12 lads and 4 Girls) My face was smashed and parts of my skull punched in... I was not knocked out or knocked down, the ordeal lasted 20 mins as I walked from the local shops back to my home... I needed surgry to put my face back together I ate from a liquidizer for 6 months, Scared for life... The people that done it, most got cautioned only two served time, they got 6 months and 4 months setences and got let out, both of them after 2 months for good behaviour.... I was still eating from a liquidizer... My jaw was still shattered, and the nerve damage hadn't even started to repair... The Police did their jobs, the courts did very little to discourage the people that attacked me... One of the two that got sentences killed the next person he attacked and is now serving an 8 year sentence, when he is released I may seek my own justice.
Until you or your family experiences some thing along these lines you wont understand... There is no Justice in an English court of Law, it's very rare they get things right.[/spoiler]
UN's Documentation on how to monitor crime:- http://unstats.un.org/unsd/publication/SeriesF/SeriesF_89E.pdf
Most places ratio wise have a simlar level of crime, but from area to area depends on what Crimes are most common place...
Death penalty for everything, I wanna see those 11 year old fuckers fry for stealing that chocolate bar.
QuoteDeath penalty for everything, I wanna see those 11 year old fuckers fry for stealing that chocolate bar.
Hummm... That's a fair amount of Electricity we would be using... I agree, but there has to be a gain from some ones death... Animal testing but on human criminals, or give them to a donor organ society or some thing... Oh, Got a new one, Real crash test dummies !!!
This topic is deteriorating rapidly...I suggest getting back on topic.
Whatever that was, anyway.
Quote from: landofshadows on July 18, 2007, 10:38:14 PM
Here's What I would do to those people:-
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Place them in a tank of Slat water, with spikes around the top, cuffed ankles and wrists... Let them choose a box each day 1, 2, 3... (Fresh boxes each day)... And add the contents to the tank.
It could be a Jelly fish, Star Fish, Tube Worms, Spotted Puffer fish, Crab & Dogwelck - My fav (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dog_whelk) = Basically flesh eating snails.
All are small and will consume you slowly, you can eat them to say alive... If you want to stay alive... Or you could head butt the spikes around the tank to kill yourself, but that would take a fair few attempts...
You could use the spikes to help keep your upper body out of the water by impailing your arms up, but that would cause bleeding and that would would help hypothermia settle in... Any cuts will sting with the salt... Should the puffers die they will release Poisson's (in small amounts) same with the Jelly fish... It's a slow death and a nasty one, well suited for those that would harm an innocent person.
Darn I should make Saw 4...
(How to escape... Use the links in the cuff's to bend the spikes as flat as possible, the water keeps your weight fairly low (Buoyancy), use you arms to lift your self over the bent spikes and drop out of the tank...)
you would give then a chance to escape?
Obviously, he has thought about the escape route after we told him how incredibly dark and demented that was, and if I saw someone get out of my trap, if it wasn't just like a square cage, something smarter than a spikey water box, then yeah, i'd let em go.
See, you SHOULDN'T write saw, because the people in the movie apperiantly deserved that kind of punishment. If you hunted and killed jellyfish, tube worms, spotted puffer fishes, dog whelck, and crab for your own personal enjoyment and then kept them all in a spiked box full of water, yeah, that punishment would fit.
OK... Back on topic...
The Talaban are killing all their hostages... The way they do this is some times humane, with a bullet, but some times they can behead people... They have many hostages from many regions, next they are planning to kill some South Korean's... Here's the report:- http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/6909763.stm
Lets make it a reality.
LOL... I 2nd that !!
Don't you think were kind of done with this topic? It seems that we keep jumping off course of topic way too easily. We understand, prison systems suck ass. They always have. They probably always will. What else is there to talk about?
Quote from: landofshadows on July 21, 2007, 12:34:57 PMThe Talaban are killing all their hostages... The way they do this is some times humane, with a bullet, but some times they can behead people...
Murder isn't humane.
most humane way possible.