The world we live in

[irish-warrior]

For four desperate months, Kevin Davies was locked in a garden shed where he was beaten, burned and given potato peelings to eat.

The vulnerable 29-year-old, who had epilepsy and learning difficulties, was let out only to act as a household slave for his captors.

His family were unaware of his suffering because he called his mother to say he was keeping well.

Finally, the starving prisoner collapsed dying on his tormentors' kitchen floor and police discovered a diary kept by one of them which outlined the appalling way he had been treated.


it really makes you think what kind of world we live in the three that took place in this only got 10 years in jail
i think they should be hung


is our current law fair on both criminals and the innocent?

[Sophist]

I think that some people learn while they are in prison, and they need to keep close tabs on them if they let them out, because they may say that they changed, and they might have, but having a taste of the real world again might lead then back to various crimes, ect.

[irish-warrior]

I think that some people learn while they are in prison, and they need to keep close tabs on them if they let them out, because they may say that they changed, and they might have, but having a taste of the real world again might lead then back to various crimes, ect.

but these arent normal people these are some kind of sick animals

Victim Kevin Davies was beaten with sticks, burned with a hot knife and starved so harshly he lost three stone.

He was freed only to help with household chores. His blood was found on the ceiling, walls and furniture at the home of his tormentors.

[Sophist]

Thats why I said some. You really asked about how fair the criminal justice system is, and some people who commit some crimes should be released after a fair time, but anytime someone tortures someone like that for any amount of time should be locked up for life. Im sure someone who does stuff like that would probably enjoy death, so spending 22 hours in a cell by yourself in a super-max prison would be worse than death.

[biohazard]

People like that are inhuman, and therefore, should not be given human privileges, like, prison, or a painless and quick death.

[gonorrhea]

Do we really need another thread like this?

[landofshadows]

Here's What I would do to those people:-



Place them in a tank of Slat water, with spikes around the top, cuffed ankles and wrists... Let them choose a box each day 1, 2, 3... (Fresh boxes each day)... And add the contents to the tank.

It could be a Jelly fish, Star Fish, Tube Worms, Spotted Puffer fish, Crab & Dogwelck - My fav (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dog_whelk) = Basically flesh eating snails.

All are small and will consume you slowly, you can eat them to say alive... If you want to stay alive... Or you could head butt the spikes around the tank to kill yourself, but that would take a fair few attempts...

You could use the spikes to help keep your upper body out of the water by impailing your arms up, but that would cause bleeding and that would would help hypothermia settle in... Any cuts will sting with the salt... Should the puffers die they will release Poisson's (in small amounts) same with the Jelly fish... It's a slow death and a nasty one, well suited for those that would harm an innocent person.

Darn I should make Saw 4...

(How to escape... Use the links in the cuff's to bend the spikes as flat as possible, the water keeps your weight fairly low (Buoyancy), use you arms to lift your self over the bent spikes and drop out of the tank...)

[Sophist]

What the HELL?

GTFO. You fail immediantly.

Who thinks of that kind of stuff?!

[landofshadows]

Creative thinking... It's not like I would actually do it.

People think of this stuff all the time... Like the Saw films.

Thinking it and doing it are different things all together, all I am saying is an eye for an eye should apply.

I think that some people learn while they are in prison, and they need to keep close tabs on them if they let them out, because they may say that they changed, and they might have, but having a taste of the real world again might lead then back to various crimes, ect.

The only thing people learn in prison is how to get away with next time... Or meet new people to aid them in their crimes... That is if they don't get let out for good behaviour, or like in England right now get let out as the prisons are over crowded... I think the punishment should suite the crime...

[gonorrhea]

Britain should make more penal colonies in this situation.

Also, although I don't think it's "sick" or whatever that you've thought that up, it is rather interesting to note the double-standard there. Governments aren't supposed to do that shit, now are they? It leads to things that aren't good, and I'm sure you can think of why without further explanation.

[landofshadows]

It leads to things that aren't good, and I'm sure you can think of why without further explanation.

Yeah I know what happens... Desensitization... If media isn't doing that already... The world we live in is going to shite, not much shocks people any more... Kidnapping and torture on this scale is rife... May be my suggestion is over the top...

But at the same time imagine that Kid mentioned in the first post was your Kid, or Brother... Is ten years enough ?

My idea is a little extream... But I think a painless death is a little to good for people who drew out such suffering... They kept a diary... that shows conviction and calculation... To document it and read it would have hit a truth that it was on going... And as the person carrying out those acts and documenting them shows a level of inhumanity that deserves in my opinion an inhuman death.

[gonorrhea]

I didn't say that 10 years was enough. And I also didn't mean desensitization, it's just that most people feel uncomfortable with the idea of their governments trying to think of the most gruesome and excruciating punishments for "horrendous" criminals that they can. I wouldn't want my kid brother being punished that way anymore than I would want him being tortured and used as a house bitch.

[irish-warrior]

It leads to things that aren't good, and I'm sure you can think of why without further explanation.

Yeah I know what happens... Desensitization... If media isn't doing that already... The world we live in is going to shite, not much shocks people any more... Kidnapping and torture on this scale is rife... May be my suggestion is over the top...

But at the same time imagine that Kid mentioned in the first post was your Kid, or Brother... Is ten years enough ?

My idea is a little extream... But I think a painless death is a little to good for people who drew out such suffering... They kept a diary... that shows conviction and calculation... To document it and read it would have hit a truth that it was on going... And as the person carrying out those acts and documenting them shows a level of inhumanity that deserves in my opinion an inhuman death.

another thing is the three that did this horrible act 2 were men and the other was a woman the woman was the leader she bought the shed and it was her idea but since she is a woman she only got nine years i think thats bull shit she should suffer no matter male or female

[landofshadows]

she bought the shed

For some reason that made me laugh... Not sure why at first... I think the Shed was his point of Solace... I mean the shed, people would hear him scream, as you say the blood was in the house...

Placing your self in some one else's shoes thinking of your self in their postion, as sick as it may be is the only way to understand evil... Judges should try it when passing sentence.

people used to be hung drawn and quartered back in the day, or placed on the rack... Many world leaders have thought many a contraption for pulling peoples souls apart.

Not saying it's right now, but for some reason it was right then... and back then, people had a higher amount of respect for one and another... even your worst enemy, it would be pistols at dawn, or a fencing match... No drive-by's... No Stabbing in the back.... Nothing like that.

The World we live in is not a nice place... the minority that make it a horrid place to live should be treated as they treat others.

[gonorrhea]

I believe Gandhi said something along the lines of "An eye for an eye leaves everyone blind."

However, those were also societies in which infrastructure was less well developed, there were very different political/religious/moral views and of course a different situation, &c. One of the problems with this is, it's bad PR. Another is, it's a bad idea. Especially for quesy people like Americans and their fellow Europeans, where there are more ideals relevant to restrained government and fair treatment of people (although what this entails has varied from time to time and nation to nation).

I wouldn't cry "Autocracy!" or anything if such a thing were to come to pass (although many others would), but I think that's overstepping a strongly emplaced boundary.

[landofshadows]

I suppose taking some ones life for taking another's is kind of lowering you down to their level...

I believe Gandhi said something along the lines of "An eye for an eye leaves everyone blind."

If he said that, then respect due Gandhi !!!...

I think Judges are too soft and send out the wrong signal's... The police do a great job, and to have court pass such a low level of justice upon the guilty must be very frustrating... Not only that keeping scum in prison costs the tax payer a fair amount of cash... one persons prison costs out weighs my Mortgage per month.

Prison if I was a country's head would not be an option, there would be no prison... It costs too much.

There would be a direct punishment... There would be a detention centre while awaiting trail, and should you confess while there you get half the punishment when seen by the court... Punishment would range from drug trails (Replace animal testing with human testing)... Hard labour (Refuse collection, railway work, building, Conscription to the Army, In in the worst scenario death with Organ donation....

Petty crimes like theft, every thing you own will be taken from you and sold at auction, you will be given 10% and told to start over, all other goods go to the party you stole from.

In-sighting terror in the country that houses you would cause you and your immediate family to ALL be deported.

Murder = worst scenario (Child killing, torture like the fourmentioned) death with Organ donation

ABH & GBH = Conscription to the Army

Vandalism = building and contraction jobs

Car Jacking = railway work

Hard labour = Cheating benefits or fraud

Just a few examples...

[irish-warrior]

I suppose taking some ones life for taking another's is kind of lowering you down to their level...

I believe Gandhi said something along the lines of "An eye for an eye leaves everyone blind."

If he said that, then respect due Gandhi !!!...

I think Judges are too soft and send out the wrong signal's... The police do a great job, and to have court pass such a low level of justice upon the guilty must be very frustrating... Not only that keeping scum in prison costs the tax payer a fair amount of cash... one persons prison costs out weighs my Mortgage per month.

Prison if I was a country's head would not be an option, there would be no prison... It costs too much.

There would be a direct punishment... There would be a detention centre while awaiting trail, and should you confess while there you get half the punishment when seen by the court... Punishment would range from drug trails (Replace animal testing with human testing)... Hard labour (Refuse collection, railway work, building, Conscription to the Army, In in the worst scenario death with Organ donation....

Petty crimes like theft, every thing you own will be taken from you and sold at auction, you will be given 10% and told to start over, all other goods go to the party you stole from.

In-sighting terror in the country that houses you would cause you and your immediate family to ALL be deported.

Murder = worst scenario (Child killing, torture like the fourmentioned) death with Organ donation

ABH & GBH = Conscription to the Army

Vandalism = building and contraction jobs

Car Jacking = railway work

Hard labour = Cheating benefits or fraud

Just a few examples...

i couldnt have put it better myself but define terrorism?

[gonorrhea]

I think Judges are too soft and send out the wrong signal's... The police do a great job, and to have court pass such a low level of justice upon the guilty must be very frustrating... Not only that keeping scum in prison costs the tax payer a fair amount of cash... one persons prison costs out weighs my Mortgage per month.

Dude, penal colonies.

Prison if I was a country's head would not be an option, there would be no prison... It costs too much.

You could cut out social services programs if you want to be frugle.

There would be a direct punishment... There would be a detention centre while awaiting trail, and should you confess while there you get half the punishment when seen by the court... Punishment would range from drug trails (Replace animal testing with human testing)... Hard labour (Refuse collection, railway work, building, Conscription to the Army, In in the worst scenario death with Organ donation....

What shitty laborers, hm? Putting mostly unskilled criminals to do pretty much anything that's more complicated than picking up litter will have undesireable results- because they'll do a very poor job. Similarly, I wouldn't particularly want criminals in the Army, because they have low morale, are prone to war crimes (bad PR), and are in general not good soldiers (and many will take their newly acquired skills merely to commit the same or perhaps even other crimes when they're out of service as well).

[landofshadows]

but define terrorism?

One man's terrorist is another mans freedom fighter... I have nothing against those protecting their own.

I have a problem with people being given a home and trust by a country to turn on that country and attack them... That's bitting the hand that feeds... That's what I mean...

For Freedom fighters / Terrorists, that's a matter of opinion and what side your on... I mean Israels is a terrorist state in the eyes of Iran.

Swearing loyalty to a country makes you part of that nation and to set out to destroy that, that's when you should be dealt with !!

I wouldn't particularly want criminals in the Army, because they have low morale, are prone to war crimes (bad PR), and are in general not good soldiers (and many will take their newly acquired skills merely to commit the same or perhaps even other crimes when they're out of service as well).

Front line... Cannon fodder... Land mine sweepers... if they are no good... Not all that commit crimes are dead heads... Set them a target, should they complete 3 missions they get sent home, that would up moral.

pretty much anything that's more complicated than picking up litter will have undesirable results

The great train robbery was taken on by some pretty clever criminals... Most that commit crimes are under the age of 30, able bodied with average intellect... Or so most figures show... But that said you have a point, I wouldn't want to live in a house made by convicts... I think keeping their tasks away from the general public would have to be enforced.

[gonorrhea]

You want to deport terrorists to nations where there are people of like mind, which would also have the side effect of multiplying your opposition?
Smart cookie.

[landofshadows]

You want to deport terrorists to nations where there are people of like mind, which would also have the side effect of multiplying your opposition?
Smart cookie.

Would they commit the crime if they knew they would be dragging their family back with them ?

Again you raise a valid point, but should they then try and get back in the country we have seen their faces, and spotting one that we have deported could save an actual attack should they attempt re-entry. And I would rather they learn Terrorist techniques in their own home land rather than have our society pay for their training here.

If the threat is out of the country they then have to bring the threat to us... it's one extra catchment net.

[gonorrhea]

Um, terrorists are devout enough to "drag" their families along back to their homelands, as if they were the worst possible place to live!
Also, these guys are intelligent. Don't underestimate them- deporting them will only cause them to multiply. Knowing their faces means nothing, they can still hide, and also there's the threat of others coming due to their influence (it happened to the US with MS-13, a Central American gangster organization).

[irish-warrior]

seaking is right if michael collins had not been deported to wales by the british goverment he would never have been taught to be a rebel and there would be no irish republic so deporting doesnt always work as planned

[gonorrhea]

Britain can't deport people within their own borders, deary.

[irish-warrior]

Britain can't deport people within their own borders, deary.

yes they can from ireland to wales