Terraforming
Is it right, is it even possible, to terraform a planet just because we have ruined our own planet. Should we build elsewhere. What are the implications of Terraforming? What impact might it have on the human race.
Please discuss and debate.
I am against Terraforming, as I don't believe it is ethical since we may be destroying the habitats of creatures that we know very little about if anything. Are you against it? Or for it? If so, why?
There is no real chance of life starting on most of the planets in our solar system.
I think there are so many avenues unexplored on our own planet like building Man Made Islands... Making Building on high Platforms like oil rigs but bigger in scale...
Whats to stop us all having Gardens on a roof's to improve oxygen levels and re-cyle carbon emissions ?
How about developing slates and bricks that are mini Solar panels to use the sun as energy, so our house is like one large battery...
All it takes is us to take a step back and think. We need to change with our world, rather than changing the world to suite us.
As for terraforming, I think one day with the current rate of growth in human population its some thing that needs exploring, we need more resources and ways of gaining them, and we need more land mass espically if the next Ice age is a few hundred years away, we should be planing for that now and how to sustain the human race.
THey did found growing plants somewhere on a planet just cant remember where but I think its possible because..
Why else would there be other planets if we have no use of it
Planets are supposed to do something we just need to figure it out.
Making use of ever aspect of our own planet and working along with it, and blending to our own enviroment should be looked at, the reaserch funding that could go into Terraforming could change our way of lives for the better...
I know if the Goverment here offered to knock my house down and build me a more energy efficent one in it's place at a cost of me swapping my mortgage to them and getting charged an extra 1% on my repayments for the term of the pay back I would, one for the better good of the planet and two a house that costs less to run means less stress.
QuoteIs it right, is it even possible, to terraform a planet just because we have ruined our own planet.
Is it right? What would make it immoral? How do you define what is 'right' versus what is 'wrong'?
Also, our planet may not be in tip-top shape in every respect, but I'd hardly call it 'ruined'.
Quote from: Chiakumu on January 19, 2007, 12:37:13 PMIs it right, is it even possible, to terraform a planet just because we have ruined our own planet. Should we build elsewhere. What are the implications of Terraforming? What impact might it have on the human race.
The biggest effect terraforming would have on humanity is that our species would suddenly (not from our perspective, of course) branch out in dozens of directions as we adapted to new environments. Certain freedoms would have to be left behind as the first off-world habitats would require constant monitoring and might be somewhat crowded. Families would be strange as people with the same "mother" but were all test tube babies who were created with frozen embryos.
QuoteI am against Terraforming, as I don't believe it is ethical since we may be destroying the habitats of creatures that we know very little about if anything.
So if we have to choose between preserving a biosphere whose most complex organism is a green fuzz that clings to rocks or ensuring the survival of our species we should side with the organisms that are one in a million instead of the ones that are one in a trillion?
Quote from: landofshadows on January 19, 2007, 01:16:54 PMThere is no real chance of life starting on most of the planets in our solar system.
Mars, Europa, Titan.
QuoteI think there are so many avenues unexplored on our own planet like building Man Made Islands... Making Building on high Platforms like oil rigs but bigger in scale...
There is plenty of unused land on Earth and I don't see why we should go to so much trouble to make a tiny bit of real estate that is massively expensive.
QuoteWhats to stop us all having Gardens on a roof's to improve oxygen levels and re-cyle carbon emissions ?
How about developing slates and bricks that are mini Solar panels to use the sun as energy, so our house is like one large battery...
All it takes is us to take a step back and think. We need to change with our world, rather than changing the world to suite us.
What does this have to do with terraforming?
QuoteAs for terraforming, I think one day with the current rate of growth in human population its some thing that needs exploring, we need more resources and ways of gaining them, and we need more land mass espically if the next Ice age is a few hundred years away, we should be planing for that now and how to sustain the human race.
Well if other planet are colonized it won't mean that millions of people will pull up stakes and go to Alpha Centauri. Colonization of other planets will involve very few people and take a long time.
Quote from: Snailer on January 19, 2007, 01:22:09 PM
THey did found growing plants somewhere on a planet just cant remember where but I think its possible because..[/quotes]
No such thing happened. If there was any proof of life on other planets the scientific community would explode and we would be planning a trip to Mars next year instead of in three decades.
QuoteWhy else would there be other planets if we have no use of it
Planets are supposed to do something we just need to figure it out.
Planets aren't supposed to do anything, they just exist.
Quote from: landofshadows on January 19, 2007, 01:26:38 PM
Making use of ever aspect of our own planet and working along with it, and blending to our own enviroment should be looked at, the reaserch funding that could go into Terraforming could change our way of lives for the better...
I know if the Goverment here offered to knock my house down and build me a more energy efficent one in it's place at a cost of me swapping my mortgage to them and getting charged an extra 1% on my repayments for the term of the pay back I would, one for the better good of the planet and two a house that costs less to run means less stress.
What does this have to do with terraforming?
QuoteWhat does this have to do with terraforming?
If we look after our own planet why do we need another ?
And the reason I say build out at sea is the planet is mostly water, so why not make the most of the entire Global area... Like this:- http://www.akuaku.org/archives/2002/09/man_made_island.shtml
We can Terraform the Sea, living on Floating or stilt like Islands wont upset the Ocean life too Much, it will cut out a fair bit of light from the Sea Bed, but restriction and building laws would have to be made.
What I am trying to say is why terraform in presant day... I admit terraforming needs researching for the future.
Our planet is the best suited to our needs.
Quote from: landofshadows on January 19, 2007, 05:02:05 PM
QuoteWhat does this have to do with terraforming?
If we look after our own planet why do we need another ?
You're right, it's not as if a single asteroid - which there are thousands of in our solar system - could devastate our ecology and completely destroy our civilization. It's not like a gamma ray burst could ever occur nearby and burn up our atmosphere. It's not as if a genetically enhanced disease could kill millions or billions of people.
As long as we stay on one planet, our species is vulnerable. Like I said before, we are ensuring our survival by colonizing other planets.
Edit: does anyone have that web site that listed all the ways that the world could end?
QuoteAnd the reason I say build out at sea is the planet is mostly water, so why not make the most of the entire Global area... Like this:- http://www.akuaku.org/archives/2002/09/man_made_island.shtml
We can Terraform the Sea, living on Floating or stilt like Islands wont upset the Ocean life too Much, it will cut out a fair bit of light from the Sea Bed, but restriction and building laws would have to be made.
What I am trying to say is why terraform in presant day... I admit terraforming needs researching for the future.
Our planet is the best suited to our needs.
Why should we build these ridiculous ocean cities instead of trying to contain and eliminate urban sprawl and encouraging birth control?
I guess you're right We need to change our current way off living because we all became a pure nature killer
I mean look at when electricity was made and the car..
It destroyed a lot in only 100 years. that aint very long you know.
So if we keep doing this for another year..
We all be dead.
:'(
QuoteI guess you're right We need to change our current way off living because we all became a pure nature killer
If we don't learn how to look after this planet we will make the same mistakes on another.
QuoteYou're right, it's not as if a single asteroid - which there are thousands of in our solar system - could devastate our ecology and completely destroy our civilization. It's not like a gamma ray burst could ever occur nearby and burn up our atmosphere. It's not as if a genetically enhanced disease could kill millions or billions of people.
OK you have a point... Many of these disasters if they could so easyily happen they would have happened, many of these are scare tatics and over acclaimed, every year people claim the world will end by a Metorite or a Solar Flare etc... But there is a Chance of its happening, so you have a point... We need a Plan B...
But going to a new planet could open up a new world of Virus...
Are we ready for trying to Terraform a Planet ?
QuoteWhy should we build these ridiculous ocean cities instead of trying to contain and eliminate urban sprawl and encouraging birth control?
May be we should do both... I agree living in the country with the highest rate of teen pregantcy that this problem needs adressing... Most Teens fall preggy to get given a free council flat or home as a first time home buyers average age due to house prices (£110,000) is 32 years old. If there was more land to develope then may be Teens falling Preggy would drop:- http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4584175.stm
Quote'Wrong direction'
"The welfare system in itself is an incentive to become a single non-working parent. Working two-parent families are treated as cash cows that can be milked to support any other lifestyle choice," he said.
Quote from: landofshadows on January 19, 2007, 05:27:10 PM
QuoteI guess you're right We need to change our current way off living because we all became a pure nature killer
If we don't learn how to look after this planet we will make the same mistakes on another.
Most of these mistakes could be corrected
right now, it's just that we don't have enough collective will to do so. We are dependent on cars and coal factories and everything else that makes our rivers flammable and our air poisonous. Can you say that a population of a few hundred people with technology perhaps 200 years more advanced than our own would be unable to cope with an environment that they control and have tailored to their own personal needs?
QuoteQuoteYou're right, it's not as if a single asteroid - which there are thousands of in our solar system - could devastate our ecology and completely destroy our civilization. It's not like a gamma ray burst could ever occur nearby and burn up our atmosphere. It's not as if a genetically enhanced disease could kill millions or billions of people.
OK you have a point... Many of these disasters if they could so easyily happen they would have happened, many of these are scare tatics and over acclaimed, every year people claim the world will end by a Metorite or a Solar Flare etc... But there is a Chance of its happening, so you have a point... We need a Plan B...
These disasters
have happened. Haven't you ever heard of a mass extinction event (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_extinction_event)?
QuoteBut going to a new planet could open up a new world of Virus...
Perhaps if we colonize a planet with all sorts of life forms and the first thing we do is jump out of our hip and eat the first thing we find growing on a tree we might get a disease, but it's not like there would be a lot of physical contact between the colony and Earth anyway. The distances are so vast that trips to other planets will usually be one way only.
QuoteAre we ready for trying to Terraform a Planet ?
No, we don't have the technology or the resources to do so at this time.
QuoteQuoteWhy should we build these ridiculous ocean cities instead of trying to contain and eliminate urban sprawl and encouraging birth control?
May be we should do both... I agree living in the country with the highest rate of teen pregantcy that this problem needs adressing... Most Teens fall preggy to get given a free council flat or home as a first time home buyers average age due to house prices (£110,000) is 32 years old. If there was more land to develope then may be Teens falling Preggy would drop:- http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4584175.stm
Maybe we could do that, or maybe we can reform welfare laws so that people aren't given homes because they have a kid.
QuoteNo, we don't have the technology or the resources to do so at this time.
May be getting to a point of inhabbiting another world is also 200 years or so off... So why not try and develope changes to our own now, learn new terraforming Techniques, like adapting the desert would help for Mars, Adapting subtrainian dewlings or mountains... We don't have to just look at the sea, there are many area's on our planet we have not looked at building in and so fourth... The Eyjiptions adapted to their surrounds, Aztecs, Escimo's, people living in the Jungles... But us the more demosteicated are the only ones destroying the world... Why not make some thing that helps give back what we have taken away....
QuoteMaybe we could do that, or maybe we can reform welfare laws so that people aren't given homes because they have a kid.
I agree 100%...
It's all something to think about, especially looking after our own planet. But back to the topic about colonizing other worlds; What gives us the right to do this? Not that I am saying it shouldnt be done, I have mixed views on the subject. But it's like many things. We, as the human race, like to "mess around" with things. It's happened countless times and will happen countless more no doubt.
Can we say we can terraform other planets just because they arn't important? Who's to say they arn't important? Just a few things to think about.
Regards,
Darico
^^I heard about that. If they build a base on Mars, and keep it intact, (with Mars atmosphere), then surley we can do stuff to our own planet, to save it, as we've screwed it up so much.
I did see a news article about the amount of pollution China is making.
Quote from: Darico on January 19, 2007, 09:16:58 PM
It's all something to think about, especially looking after our own planet. But back to the topic about colonizing other worlds; What gives us the right to do this? Not that I am saying it shouldnt be done, I have mixed views on the subject. But it's like many things. We, as the human race, like to "mess around" with things. It's happened countless times and will happen countless more no doubt.
Can we say we can terraform other planets just because they arn't important? Who's to say they arn't important? Just a few things to think about.
Regards,
Darico
Landofshadows is right, the chance of ANY life forming outside is slim to nothing. The main code of human genetics is to survive and spread our seed. Slowing down birth rates is stupid, making new planets is not. We're meant to spread out, why should it stop at Earth?
Then what you are saying, is that it will take time?
Quote from: Ravenshade on January 20, 2007, 05:01:47 AM
Then what you are saying, is that it will take time?
Quote more, who was that directed at???
About time: that's all we need. Well that and money. Once we learn how to do it, it would take what, a 100 years to Terraform Mars?
We may not have all that long till the next ice age...
So if it was up to me I would try and buy more time by bettering our way of life until then, while still investing on Tech to reach Mars and put a man on the surface, and get it to sustain life.
Quote from: Deliciously_Saucy on January 20, 2007, 11:48:51 AM
Quote from: Ravenshade on January 20, 2007, 05:01:47 AM
Then what you are saying, is that it will take time?
Quote more, who was that directed at???
About time: that's all we need. Well that and money. Once we learn how to do it, it would take what, a 100 years to Terraform Mars?
At you Deliciously_Saucy
Yay. ;8
Maybe we should discuss methods of Terraforming? It all really comes down to releasing Greenhouse gasses to heat up the atmosphere melting the ice on Mars, giving it flowing Oceans, and once warm enough, bringing in simple plants/moss that can easily adapt to harsh environments creating oxygen for more complex life forms.
There's still plenty of debate on how to heat up the planet though....
Well we could just drill down deep enough and try to create an implosion (not explosion) intense enough to create an extreme heat that will melt metal and possibly the magnetic pulses of it. This would be extremely hard though, and the risk the planet would blow up is high.
You can't just release gases onto a planet, they'll just escape into space. There's no atmosphere on Mars, and earth needs those elements. For the most part at least. Perhaps we need to get the planet "alive" again (refer to the gaia hypothesis) and get it moving. We would need to heat it up if this were to happen.
Anyone have any other methods, apart from a huge implosion, because i'm not too sure, I mean fusion's an option if anyone wants to suggest it.
Quote from: Ravenshade on January 22, 2007, 10:36:39 AM
You can't just release gases onto a planet, they'll just escape into space. There's no atmosphere on Mars, and earth needs those elements.
For a man who speaks of gravity as a fact, you don't have much faith in it... There's a reason why men didn't float off of the moon when they were walking on it ( apparently ).
" Even though Earth's gravity is pulling the apple down from the tree, the apple in some small way must be pulling the Earth in the apple's own direction. "
Quote from: Ravenshade on January 22, 2007, 10:36:39 AM
Well we could just drill down deep enough and try to create an implosion (not explosion) intense enough to create an extreme heat that will melt metal and possibly the magnetic pulses of it. This would be extremely hard though, and the risk the planet would blow up is high.
You can't just release gases onto a planet, they'll just escape into space. There's no atmosphere on Mars, and earth needs those elements. For the most part at least. Perhaps we need to get the planet "alive" again (refer to the gaia hypothesis) and get it moving. We would need to heat it up if this were to happen.
Anyone have any other methods, apart from a huge implosion, because i'm not too sure, I mean fusion's an option if anyone wants to suggest it.
You know nothing about anything, do you? If you release gases on a planet with no atmosphere they will remain on the planet (although technically they will be in "space" because the vacuum would extend to the surface of the planet), but they'll spread out so much that it is for all intents and purposes gone.
Do you know what an implosion is? How is an implosion caused by who knows what supposed to make a planet Earthlike? The same question applies to fusion.
Hey, JH, I seem to know more than you at any rate.
It has been proven, they released Gases on the moon...they dispersed and headed off to the nearest black hole...or so we think, the point is, they didn't stick around. There is no gravitational field to keep them there and thus float off where ever they want to. Water, sticks together in space (as an example of what a gas does) but it will jut by a tiny momentum drift off forever never reaching it's target. That's what I mean.
Gases cannot stick to a planet unless there is a gravitational field keeping them there. The gases only stay on earth because of the gravity and the spin (or so says Stephen Hawkins)
I theorized and implosion, because an explosion would completely wipe out the planet of the magnitude I was talking about. An implosion would be something that created an astronomical amount of heat in a contained area this will theoretically heat up the core and thus get the tectonic plates of Mars moving again. This would create fusion inside the planet, where energy is constantly being recycled.
Once the planet has heated up, the gravitational field from inside the core will be generated from the huge masses of metal that turn magnetic once they are molten...go ask a chemist and not a drug chemist either. Something like electrolysis, yet in gases. We know little about gravity, but what we do know we can use, especially if we know something about magnetism.
That gravity, will then draw in outside dust particles that contain seeds of life as I'd like to call them. The heat will heat up the Ice caps on mars, and the rivers and oceans will flow once more, these seeds, or organisms will grow and eventually begin the process of photosynthesis. Eventually this will terraform the planet, although this will take billions of years.
Yes billions instead of hundreds. I have to agree with Jesus on this Raven. Besides, mars is much larger then the moon and therefore has a bigger gravitation pull. Releasing greenhouse gasses on the surface would work, to some degree.
Your theory is to extreme and unfeasible.
Mars doesn't have an atmosphere, it's true. Also, my mother's a virgin, Lord of the Rings is based on a true story, and Mercury is actually twice the size of the Sun.
Quote from: gonorrhoea on January 24, 2007, 09:22:38 PM
Mars doesn't have an atmosphere, it's true. Also, my mother's a virgin, Lord of the Rings is based on a true story, and Mercury is actually twice the size of the Sun.
You forgot the fact that gases aren't affected by gravity unless it is around a planet with an active core, the fact that the moon doesn't have gravity, and that tectonic activity causes fusion in a planet's core.
JH, you appear to be coming up with facts. I suggested a theory, I already know it's flawed.
I want you to prove that gases are not affected by gravity.
I also want you to prove that tectonic activity causes fusion, as far as I am aware it is because of the constant recycling of the matle that the tectonic plates move.
As for Delicious....billions intstead of hundreds? I'm slightly confused there.
Releasing green house gases on a planet will not work, we need something to hold it down, that is why nebulae exist. Becauses gases congrugate instead of hanging around a lifeless planet that has nothing to keep them there. We have an atmosphere because the earth is spinning, and the earth has a live core that causes gravity. Which is why the further we get away from the earth, the less oxygen there is. Otherwise, by your theory, that just gases meeting a planet, they'd stick to it, would actually have evidence of multiple layers of random gases, and this isn't so.
For instance 1st layer of oxygen, 2nd Layer of Nitrogen, 3rd layer of...in the order that they meet the planet.
I doubt, that releasing gases onto the planet will work. If you were talking about how many cubic metres of gases would need to be released you are talking trillions not just millions or billions and even that would barely surround the planet.
Which is why the only theory of terraforming a planet at the moment, (that I know of) is the sci-fi glass domes.
Now, what I said about an implosion, is quite rightly, just fantasy and just a theory of creating heat intense enough to start the core up again. I don't know how to start fusion or how to generate that amount of heat, I was going a theory that an intense implosion would create a large enough supervacuum that the heat would be generated automatically. Thus I don't know much about bombs and how they work.
But overall, these gases...they just won't stick around, that's my point. Mars has no atmosphere, gravity that isn't enough to keep oxygen or Carbon dioxide on the planet at all. Unless, someone can provide proof i'm wrong? Anyone? Because that is a theory yet again, and I'd love to know if some scientist has gathered data that what I have gathered for myself from Stephen Hawkins theories.
Quote from: gonorrhoea on January 24, 2007, 09:22:38 PM
Mars doesn't have an atmosphere, it's true. Also, my mother's a virgin, Lord of the Rings is based on a true story, and Mercury is actually twice the size of the Sun.
Thanks you.
"Terraforming Mars would entail two major interlaced changes: building the atmosphere and heating it. Since a thicker atmosphere of carbon dioxide and/or some other greenhouse gases would trap incoming solar radiation and the raised temperature would put the greenhouse gases into the atmosphere the two processes would augment one another"
"Greenhousing Mars via the manufacture of halocarbon gases on the planet's surface may well be the most practical option. Total surface power requirements to drive planetary warming using this method are calculated and found to be on the order of 1000 MWe, and the required times scale for climate and atmosphere modification is on the order of 50 years. "
"planet simulation allows addition of greenhouse gases like water vapor, ammonia, carbon dioxide and perfluorocarbons to Mars. In addition for different amounts of heat retention and reflection, the albedo and insolation can be adjusted. Since Mars has stored greenhouse gases (carbon dioxide) both at the polar caps and in the surface rocks and soil (regolith), those outgassing reservoirs can be freed up with warming and climate forcing. "
" Here are three terraforming methods that have been proposed:
~Large orbital mirrors that will reflect sunlight and heat the Mars surface.
~Greenhouse gas-producing factories to trap solar radiation.
~Smashing ammonia-heavy asteroids into the planet to raise the greenhouse gas level. "
"We know that Mars is the fourth planet in the solar system, Earth the third. Because of that, Mars is colder than Earth. It is colder and drier than any place on Earth.
It also only has a very thin, poisonous for humans atmosphere. Above that, the surface has some peroxides that would destroy any known living tissue. "
" The idea in terraforming Mars is the following:
Melting the southern polar icecap to release large quantities of carbon dioxide into the atmosphere, which, because of the greenhouse effect of this gas, will heat up the planet, maybe enough to release more carbon dioxide from the regolith and maybe even melting the northern polar icecap (Underground waterdepots would take a very long time to evaporate to get onto the surface of Mars) without extra heating.
When the step of enriching the atmosphere with carbon dioxide (and nitrogen) and the surface with water is achieved, the second step starts: Enriching the atmosphere in oxygen (and nitrogen).
This is simply done by releasing plants that can survive on Mars' still rude climate. Some genetical engineering might be necessary to achieve this step. "
Heard enough? Cause I can go all night.
Nah keep going ;D
I'm learning every minute. So where did you find all this information? But I do have to admit, that you are right in this case. Maybe this should have been done earlier?
I hadn't found the data that Mars had a thin atmosphere...that's why I want to know where you found it.
Quote from: Ravenshade on January 25, 2007, 02:01:35 PM
Nah keep going ;D
I'm learning every minute. So where did you find all this information? But I do have to admit, that you are right in this case. Maybe this should have been done earlier?
I hadn't found the data that Mars had a thin atmosphere...that's why I want to know where you found it.
It's not were I got the information from that matters. What matters is that I'm always right.
But I think you are a big boy to admit your mistakes so gracefully. *Gives Cookie*
*takes cookie*...hmm...*sneaks another*
Yeah, me is a big boy! (who are we kiddin?)
No you're not always right, but those theories are grounded, I've checked around and most of them are backed up by reputable scientists.
Deliciously_Saucy
Points are pretty much all correct give or take... And he gave the simplest of terms... But the time scale of 50 years is just for the adjustment of the atmospher (I would say much longer as the change needs to be a gradual build up), we have to also take into account making a ship that can transport many people, the housing of those people, the work and industry build up... Lots of other factors... Getting food up there, shipments, import & export... LOADS... I doubt we will see people living on Mars in our life times.
Here's some links on Terraforming:-
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terraforming
http://science.howstuffworks.com/terraforming.htm
we're not yet sure how long we'll be living soon...have a look at the aging thread.
Quote from: Ravenshade on January 25, 2007, 12:51:02 PM
JH, you appear to be coming up with facts. I suggested a theory, I already know it's flawed.
I was just saying what other people in this thread already have.
QuoteI want you to prove that gases are not affected by gravity.
Quote from: Ravenshade on January 24, 2007, 04:31:39 PMIt has been proven, they released Gases on the moon...they dispersed and headed off to the nearest black hole...or so we think, the point is, they didn't stick around. There is no gravitational field to keep them there and thus float off where ever they want to. Water, sticks together in space (as an example of what a gas does) but it will jut by a tiny momentum drift off forever never reaching it's target. That's what I mean.
Gases cannot stick to a planet unless there is a gravitational field keeping them there. The gases only stay on earth because of the gravity and the spin (or so says Stephen Hawkins)
I was a bit hasty with this one. What you sseemed to be saying is that the moon does not have gravity and that atmospheres remain around a planet isn't just because there is gravity, but because it spins. My mistake.
QuoteI also want you to prove that tectonic activity causes fusion, as far as I am aware it is because of the constant recycling of the matle that the tectonic plates move.
Quote from: Ravenshade on January 24, 2007, 04:31:39 PMI theorized and implosion, because an explosion would completely wipe out the planet of the magnitude I was talking about. An implosion would be something that created an astronomical amount of heat in a contained area this will theoretically heat up the core and thus get the tectonic plates of Mars moving again. This would create fusion inside the planet, where energy is constantly being recycled.
What you said.
QuoteReleasing green house gases on a planet will not work, we need something to hold it down, that is why nebulae exist. Becauses gases congrugate instead of hanging around a lifeless planet that has nothing to keep them there. We have an atmosphere because the earth is spinning, and the earth has a live core that causes gravity. Which is why the further we get away from the earth, the less oxygen there is. Otherwise, by your theory, that just gases meeting a planet, they'd stick to it, would actually have evidence of multiple layers of random gases, and this isn't so.
The Earth's gravity doesn't exist because we have an active core, and we don't have an atmosphere because the Earth is spinning. Also, can you tell me the names of all the planets and what order they are in?
QuoteNow, what I said about an implosion, is quite rightly, just fantasy and just a theory of creating heat intense enough to start the core up again. I don't know how to start fusion or how to generate that amount of heat, I was going a theory that an intense implosion would create a large enough supervacuum that the heat would be generated automatically. Thus I don't know much about bombs and how they work.
What implosion? What causes it? You can't just say "implosion" like it explains everything.
QuoteBut overall, these gases...they just won't stick around, that's my point. Mars has no atmosphere, gravity that isn't enough to keep oxygen or Carbon dioxide on the planet at all. Unless, someone can provide proof i'm wrong? Anyone? Because that is a theory yet again, and I'd love to know if some scientist has gathered data that what I have gathered for myself from Stephen Hawkins theories.
Mars has an atmosphere. I didn't know Stephen Hawking spelled his name "Hawkins".
Quote from: landofshadows on January 25, 2007, 02:12:29 PMa ship that can transport many people
Never gonna happen. Colonization will involve a lot of fertile women and test tube babies.
Quotewe're not yet sure how long we'll be living soon...have a look at the aging thread.
Ha... Very True...LOL
I heard about a guy who had am illness that made him age faster, and alledgly doctors could have slowed the effects and added to his life span, but the law stopped them from helping as its against ethics.
I hope we do get to expand lives of people. I think say if you work hard, say every 10 years of continued employeement I think an expansion of life of say 5 years should be given.
___Any way back to Topic___The how stuff Works link is pretty cool that I posted it shows a mock up of what a small Mars set up could be like and goes into a bit of detail on Mars from an Astronaugts point of view.
(https://rmrk.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fstatic.howstuffworks.com%2Fgif%2Fterraforming-hswmars.jpg&hash=8422d3d5c4ac81be1ca01f2c636ac61ea5431a97)
Finally a better post. Much better.
Order of planets
My Very Easy Method Just Speeds Up Naming (and the last one is no longer a planet)
Mecury, Venus, Eart, Mars, Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus, Neptune.
I have said something before...i.e A big bomb, i'm not even sure how to create one.
Stephen Hawkings, my mistake.
A ship that can transport many people...people didn't think planes could carry more than one person...guess what....
Jesus: Your just recycling some points I've already made... But hey, at least you made some of them funny.
QuoteA big bomb, i'm not even sure how to create one.
That would create an Implosion?
QuoteMecury, Venus, Eart, Mars, Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus, Neptune.
This isn't Sailor Moon and he was making a joke.
Lmao...i failed to pick up on that... :-[
and yes...a big bomb that would create an implosion. Geez I have no idea. *shrug*
Quote from: Ravenshade on January 25, 2007, 02:24:56 PM
Finally a better post. Much better.
I don't post to please you.
QuoteMy Very Easy Method Just Speeds Up Naming (and the last one is no longer a planet)
There's a mnemonic to remember the order of the planets? I've known them by heart since I was six.
QuoteEart
I know it's a typo, but it's still funny as fuck.
QuoteI have said something before...i.e A big bomb, i'm not even sure how to create one.
Well if you don't know what sort of bomb it is or what effect it would have then it is a very bad idea to figure it into any of your plans.
Stephen Hawkings, my mistake.
QuoteA ship that can transport many people...people didn't think planes could carry more than one person...guess what....
Perhaps sometime in the future we might have gigantic ships capable of carrying thousands of people (Guild Heighliners are the sort of thing I have in mind) but for the next few hundred years you better not expect anything more than a handful of people on a ship at a time.
Well yeah, but Pluto was declassified...no longer a planet...
and yeah, I know it'll take a while, but who knows we've developed from nothing to coal in what 10 years
Quote from: Ravenshade on January 25, 2007, 03:06:09 PM
Well yeah, but Pluto was declassified...no longer a planet...
Pluto? What?
Quoteand yeah, I know it'll take a while, but who knows we've developed from nothing to coal in what 10 years
More like two hundred thousand.
Quote from: Jesus Hitler on January 25, 2007, 03:20:20 PM
Quote from: Ravenshade on January 25, 2007, 03:06:09 PM
Well yeah, but Pluto was declassified...no longer a planet...
Pluto? What?
Yeh I wouldn't be surprised. I haven't heard that as fact, but it never was a planet in my opinion.
QuoteA ship that can transport many people...people didn't think planes could carry more than one person...guess what....
Space travel has been going on for years, and the best they have is a 3 manned ship.
But they are working on a Solar plane...
A Mock up picture, there are a few of these going about at the mo(https://rmrk.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.daviddarling.info%2Fimages%2Forbital_spaceplane.jpg&hash=739a9eaeb9aee8f183b8adaf55059d13012a7d35)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spaceplane
Its still a fair way off... But one day we may all be able to traverse space as easy as we can the skies... all I am saying its not in our life time.
Quote from: landofshadows on January 25, 2007, 03:36:15 PM
QuoteA ship that can transport many people...people didn't think planes could carry more than one person...guess what....
Space travel has been going on for years, and the best they have is a 3 manned ship.
But they are working on a Solar plane...
A Mock up picture, there are a few of these going about at the mo
(https://rmrk.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.daviddarling.info%2Fimages%2Forbital_spaceplane.jpg&hash=739a9eaeb9aee8f183b8adaf55059d13012a7d35)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spaceplane
Its still a fair way off... But one day we may all be able to traverse space as easy as we can the skies... all I am saying its not in our life time.
Oh oh oh! I sore a documentary that had that plane in it! VERY kool!
They said the biggest problem would be a HUGE amount of travel sickness that would arise from travel in it though... I say that the government has given up on space travel far to much, I say they've fucked up so bad that it has ( and had ) made it possible for privet companies to pic up the slack. Forget the name, but some guy ( I think he's working with Virgin on it as well ) has already built a semi-working proto type of a small plane to send the common man into space. Holiday related ;8
Yeah... its getting there...
But now with all this talk of Pollution and emissions and so on... People are going nuts over people having more than one Holiday by plane a year.
I guess once the Space plane is built may be it will run on a new fuel... At least I hope it will.
I doubt the Space plane will get commisioned in todays world even if it would work, one reason why not, is we don't need it yet.
I still think adapting parts of our own planet should be looked at... imagine a Undewater world in a dome or some thing...
(https://rmrk.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.chesserstudios.com%2F3d%2Fimages%2Fseacity.jpg&hash=302850808d488a8cf8916e103b1caed8038fba81)
More possible than Mars being made livable ?
Would and underwater city feel the effects of Global change... I dunno...
Quote from: landofshadows on January 25, 2007, 04:13:16 PM
I still think adapting parts of our own planet should be looked at... imagine a Undewater world in a dome or some thing...
(https://rmrk.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.chesserstudios.com%2F3d%2Fimages%2Fseacity.jpg&hash=302850808d488a8cf8916e103b1caed8038fba81)
More possible than Mars being made livable ?
Would and underwater city feel the effects of Global change... I dunno...
LOL Sealab 2021. *BANG*!!
I luuuuuuvvv the sea, perhaps a topic should be made....
Those Monster Giant Squids turn me on...
It is an interesting point though, I must say it never occurred to me thinking about the mass overpopulation problem that the majority of earth is water... I say it could be done. Obviously not now, but hey...
Quote from: Deliciously_Saucy on January 25, 2007, 01:54:06 PM
rambling about Mars' atmosphere
I said it had an atmosphere, never said it was the best of them all.
QuoteI said it had an atmosphere, never said it was the best of them all.
Well done...
(https://rmrk.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimages.google.co.uk%2Fimages%3Fq%3Dtbn%3AdGQIVmyjOk4p3M%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fshopping.onewayuk.com%2Fshopping%2Foneway.nsf%2FBA8125BA93143CD280256B5A00615090%2F%2524file%2Fwell%252520done%252520lge.gif&hash=2b31d902d208dc200feef066e4cbefa8272c840d)
I know Building under the sea or in the mountains or any place else on Earth wont save the Human race should the Earth be destroyed...
So I guess getting Human life out in the Cosmos has to still be researched and one day achived... But talking about this now when its distant future is futile.
Quote from: landofshadows on January 25, 2007, 08:30:13 PM
QuoteI said it had an atmosphere, never said it was the best of them all.
Well done...
(https://rmrk.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimages.google.co.uk%2Fimages%3Fq%3Dtbn%3AdGQIVmyjOk4p3M%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fshopping.onewayuk.com%2Fshopping%2Foneway.nsf%2FBA8125BA93143CD280256B5A00615090%2F%2524file%2Fwell%252520done%252520lge.gif&hash=2b31d902d208dc200feef066e4cbefa8272c840d)
Lol, I hope your being sarcastic!
QuoteI know Building under the sea or in the mountains or any place else on Earth wont save the Human race should the Earth be destroyed...
So I guess getting Human life out in the Cosmos has to still be researched and one day achived... But talking about this now when its distant future is futile.
Futile? Or planning for a brighter tomorrow? lol. Nothing will be done if nothing is said first.
QuoteFutile? Or planning for a brighter tomorrow? lol. Nothing will be done if nothing is said first.
Yeah... But its a little To
Total Recall for me... Mars a nice planet to visit but I wouldn't want to live...LOL
Its kind of Futile in away, I would imagine Sending millions of capsuals out into space contain the Human Geno string would work better than moving to Mars... The chances of alein life bringing humans back from the dead using the DNA would have more chance... (I am gunna get so slatted and slagged off for this one...LOL)
Or Building a Giant Space station or making ANTI comet missles is more plausable than us living on Mars... Heck even the film Amagedon has more chance of becoming a reality...LOL
Us living on Mars is a pipe dream at the mo... Its not going to happen for 100's of years. May be in our kids, kids, Kids life times (Thats 3 more generations for those of you who don't enjoy math).
QuoteLol, I hope your being sarcastic!
;D ;D Yes I was being Sarcastic... or would it be funnier if I wasn't make your own decissions...LOL ;8
thx
LoS, I think you're slipping...?
What if we are the only intelligent forms of life in the entire universe? What do we do then, we're screwed. Nah moving to mars is the way forward...i'm sure there's more chance for it. Though your space station idea is more possible than the mars idea because it is closer.
Though, when you say we wouldn't be able to live on mars, maybe we will, we jumped from the age of pony and cart, to the age of lorries in about 60 years. I don't think it would be much harder to get further.
QuoteWhat if we are the only intelligent forms of life in the entire universe? What do we do then, we're screwed. Nah moving to mars is the way forward...i'm sure there's more chance for it. Though your space station idea is more possible than the mars idea because it is closer.
It's a possibility. I don't see it as such a bad thing though, as in time we would slowly spread out into the entire universe, fill up a planet, then move on. Spreading humanity across the universe.
We'd all look different very quickly on a changed gravity. If you had a child on the moon, and raised it there, it would grow to 7-10feet in height. That's only first gen' too... If there aren't any aliens out there, we'll make 'em.
BTW Intelligent debate has been practically dead for the past two days... The fuck..?
Delicious, shouldn't you be banned by now?
True people would grow very differently to how they do on earth, so perhaps we are the birth of universe? The only ones who can adapt far faster than any living creature. At least, that's what we've done so far.
Time, times and incredible thing you know, with time, everything is possible.
That's partly because I haven't been here the last few days, and everyone seems to desert it apart from me and you. Perhaps...perhaps thats a sign...
Quote from: Ravenshade on January 29, 2007, 10:27:52 AM
Perhaps...perhaps thats a sign...
Yes, that there is only a handful of people who have a brain on this site... gonorrhoea, LOS, sadly Jesus Hitler... Oh and you I guess... :P
QuoteDelicious, shouldn't you be banned by now?
I don't see why.
I don't think that anyone can really make a true point as to whether life, or intelligent life, exist out side of Terra or not. But we can say that in most likeliness, if it does exist, we won't be meeting them ( unless a shortcut technology is discovered to be real, hyperspace, a way of manipulating wormholes... ), I mean what? There will be a planet every 100 light-years that will be like earth, as in the right distance from the sun, having a "Defender" planet like Jupiter, and having the right amounts of gasses.
While that seems like a lot, it really comes down to: What's the chance of life forming, what's the chance of complex life forming and what's the chance of that life becoming intelligent and self aware?
It's been proven that nature doesn't need intelligence to survive ( on a human level that is ) so if it's not needed, then is our own awareness just a cruel joke? If it is, why would it happen some were else?
Whoa that's an entirely new issue!
I think you should copy and paste that to a new topic...What is the meaning of our existence...
O.o...I know it was a joke, but...you have -100 rep at least....could have sworn...neh ^^
But I do agree with you, you're right, there is little chance of life occuring anywhere else but here, because the conditions aren't right.
Quote from: Ravenshade on January 29, 2007, 10:49:52 AM
Whoa that's an entirely new issue!
I think you should copy and paste that to a new topic...What is the meaning of our existence...
O.o...I know it was a joke, but...you have -100 rep at least....could have sworn...neh ^^
But I do agree with you, you're right, there is little chance of life occuring anywhere else but here, because the conditions aren't right.
Alrighty, made a new topic ^_^ .
I wonder how we can get back to the topic of Terraforming...? Any thing you want to discuss? I'm some what filled up with " Discovery channel " info' on the matter... Lol
Hmm...
nope I think we've ran out of debate...bah.
Okay then...what if a planet has intelligent life, but they have resources, should we still go ahead and take the planet?
Quote from: Ravenshade on January 29, 2007, 11:02:19 AM
Hmm...
nope I think we've ran out of debate...bah.
Okay then...what if a planet has intelligent life, but they have resources, should we still go ahead and take the planet?
I think it depends on the situation. I say if it was an "Us or them" type of scenario, then yes, I would say that Humans come first. Otherwise no. But there are many factors to consider...
That is definately true, but, I still don't think it is right to take a planet just for ourselves, wouldn't that make us no better than the criminals we have tried to rid ourselves of?
Yet having said that, I agree, if it was us or them, it would definately be us.
(now i've ran out)
The goverment need to play a more important role in this, for all the countries. All of the contients (Well almost all of them) Are producing WAY WAY WAY to my CO2. But, our goverment in England, rather than spending cash on helping reduce CO2, are spending £9 FREAKING BILLION ON THE NEW OLYMPIC STADIUM!!!! >:(
Someone's been in the closet lately...Mr Brown (No i'm not kidding) went and raised taxes on air travel to help cut down flights. (although it had helped their bank balance). This is currently being disputed.
England is doing well on pollution levels, but unlike other countries in the EU we don't have as much Hydro-electric power, unlike other countries such as Germany (one of the cleanest countries in Europe) we are against Nuclear power. So it isn't the government...it's us. The public who vote for those ass holes. (Is voting Conservatives)
However this is another topic...so to link it in.
If we put more money into environmental control it still causes no difference as China...the worlds biggest pollutant under America (despite their propaganda that they aren't the top pollutants) refuses to cooperate as they are developing still.
This makes me believe that the American's won't be the first to terraform a planet (heck they haven't even landed on the moon yet...(especially since it was filmed in a studio) so as far as I know only the russians have gotten there...and other countries in that general direction) I think the Chinese will be the first to terraform a planet because they have will have the technology and the money...and will probably be a UN Sanction because they along with India destroyed our planet.
So that's a more of "who will be the first nation" and "why" they will terraform a planet.
Quote from: Ravenshade on February 28, 2007, 12:08:28 AMThis makes me believe that the American's won't be the first to terraform a planet (heck they haven't even landed on the moon yet...(especially since it was filmed in a studio) so as far as I know only the russians have gotten there...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQKxAqpjroo
[First post here so I have no idea whats been said]
I'm against, like the point you stated before, we ruined out planet so why invade another? Will the cycle continue until we've reached out last resorts? We have to learn to take care of our planet, not everything can become clean in a matter 4-5 years, in the sate we're in, I estimate 10 years at least. If we have to come to this conclusion one day, I would rather die.
~Winged
Quote from: Winged on February 28, 2007, 04:23:55 AM
[First post here so I have no idea whats been said]
I'm against, like the point you stated before, we ruined out planet so why invade another? Will the cycle continue until we've reached out last resorts? We have to learn to take care of our planet, not everything can become clean in a matter 4-5 years, in the sate we're in, I estimate 10 years at least. If we have to come to this conclusion one day, I would rather die.
~Winged
K, then feel free to die. Who says we can't do both ( look after our planet AND make new homes )? It's not a simple matter of planet hopping, it has to do with spreading out the human race. Mass over population will be a certain threat in the near future, and I think having a terraformed planet is a better option then killing a bunch of children, don't you think?
Replacement has nothing to do with the main idea of terraforming a planet. How the fuck can you "invade" a planet that has no life? Leaving nature alone is a pathetic excuse not to do it as nothing would have truly evolved on any planet we would consider terraforming.
Loled at clip Saladin. I can see how committed they are to the lie.
The life forms might be underdeveloped and live in a underground. And some planet (I think Mars) has bacteria living on the planets crust and in class we talks about that and some people said the bacteria might turn into a living thingy magigi and I dunno how cause I wasn't paying 100% attention.
~Winged
Quote from: Winged on March 01, 2007, 10:44:57 AM
The life forms might be underdeveloped and live in a underground. And some planet (I think Mars) has bacteria living on the planets crust and in class we talks about that and some people said the bacteria might turn into a living thingy magigi and I dunno how cause I wasn't paying 100% attention.
~Winged
Yeh, I'm just quoting that in case you try to change it later...
T_T
It would take billions of years for a decent form of life to evolve on Mars...and our solar system should have been eradicated by our sun at that time and that's with our help by providing some resources. That planet is far more use to us than it is to them.
Basically, it would allow growth which is what life wants to do grow. It is a shame, but many things are pushed out, this is called Natural Selection.
(reasons to terraform mars)
Quote from: Deliciously_Saucy on March 01, 2007, 11:05:18 AM
Quote from: Winged on March 01, 2007, 10:44:57 AM
The life forms might be underdeveloped and live in a underground. And some planet (I think Mars) has bacteria living on the planets crust and in class we talks about that and some people said the bacteria might turn into a living thingy magigi and I dunno how cause I wasn't paying 100% attention.
~Winged
Yeh, I'm just quoting that in case you try to change it later...
T_T
Well I don't go back on my words, I say either I'm stupid or its a typo..usually a typo.
As for Mars, as long as we don't do what we did you Earth to make it uninhabitable.
~Winged
NASA has a very interesting page about space settlement (http://www.nas.nasa.gov/Services/Education/SpaceSettlement/). If people can adapt to this sort of lifestyle, the question of whether or not terrafoming a dead planet is moral would become moot.
Quote from: landofshadows on January 19, 2007, 01:16:54 PM
There is no real chance of life starting on most of the planets in our solar system.
I think there are so many avenues unexplored on our own planet like building Man Made Islands... Making Building on high Platforms like oil rigs but bigger in scale...
Whats to stop us all having Gardens on a roof's to improve oxygen levels and re-cyle carbon emissions ?
How about developing slates and bricks that are mini Solar panels to use the sun as energy, so our house is like one large battery...
All it takes is us to take a step back and think. We need to change with our world, rather than changing the world to suite us.
As for terraforming, I think one day with the current rate of growth in human population its some thing that needs exploring, we need more resources and ways of gaining them, and we need more land mass espically if the next Ice age is a few hundred years away, we should be planing for that now and how to sustain the human race.
False... Actually...
Europa has ice caps. And what are beneath ice caps? WATER! Weee, we have H2O. We can explore those depths, but the chances are slim. Take samples back we have a higher chance of finding life (Not intellegent life).
Theres plans of terraforming mars.... but it think we'd use more money and resources than ever.
I think it's less how moral it is, and more how possible, aside from the fact that I think that any level of space exploration is probably going to raise our chance of death/enslavement by extraterrestrials, I just don't thin we could do it, I think we were scared off the moon, and with all the strange things noticed in Mars in the cydonia area, would the US government want us to go and find what they have ridiculed for the past years to be true? Or worse yet, find it exists and they knew it exists?
i am also getting a bad feeling terraforming mars is not a good idea.
Ruhani, this may sound rude, but as far as extraterrestrial issues and ideas go, I find you know virtually nothing, and tend to ramble, so please don't associate me with you.
Quote from: Ruhani777 on April 13, 2007, 12:24:47 AM
i am also getting a bad feeling terraforming mars is not a good idea.
I'm sure whenever humans find a way to get there and start terraforming, they'll thaw out your dead body and ask what your opinion is. If we even live that long in the first place.
Well I was forced to read a thing in science class about how there will be a russian mine on the moon by 2020, extracting helium 3 for all our energy needs.
i totally disagree with terraforming other planets. We haven't explored them completely and gotten a full understanding of what they're really like. Why would someone go settle into some unknown land without at least getting a general understanding of them.
and biohazard...
freakin google europa... and find out the possibilites of bacterial life on that moon. :-\
heck i even took the time of googling the russian mining plan on our moon. That way i get better undertsandings.
when i mean im having a bad feeling, its just this feeling i cant explain towards the terraforming of mars, i just diagree doing so with other planets.
check this out.
http://science.howstuffworks.com/terraforming.htm (http://science.howstuffworks.com/terraforming.htm)
I've seen that before, it's pretty cool.
As for exploring planets...mars...empty...but the scientists obviously aren't going to terraform somewhere they haven't explored...
except for the fact that we generally colonise first before exploring...it's the basics of survival.
hmm, they should make portable colonies. Maybe a space vehicle that could act like one? Then again....
Quote from: Ruhani777 on April 15, 2007, 04:50:35 PM
hmm, they should make portable colonies. Maybe a space vehicle that could act like one? Then again....
Me thinks that's called a space ship....
me thinks thats what i meant :(