Ask a Conspiracy Theorist

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I just know I'm opening up a huge can of worms with this thread and I'm basically asking to get beat up... but... away we go. o.o;;; *hides* lol

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What do you think really happened on 9/11?

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I don't know anything for certain other than it wasn't what we were told.  Too many unanswered questions, too many people dodging questions, and too many coincidences >.>;;

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What do you think about Area 51?




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Sailor Man
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So about that money...
I don't know anything for certain other than it wasn't what we were told.  Too many unanswered questions, too many people dodging questions, and too many coincidences >.>;;

GTFO!

No really, this is the one 'conspiracy' that pisses me off.

Other than that, the grassy noll fiction or TRUTH?

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As far as Area 51, I'm sure it does exist.  Whether they're using it to experiment with alien technology or not... *shrugs*  I can't say for sure.  I'm sure aliens have been to planet earth, but I'm not willing to commit to the idea that we've harnessed any of their technology.  But, what I am sure of is that they're using it to develop and test some pretty "out there" stuff.  But, whether it's alien or not..?  Dunno.

I'm not sure about who killed JFK.  It could've been the CIA.  The CIA is allowed to be so secretive that they don't really seem to have to answer to anyone but themselves. 

As far as the 9/11 conspiracy "theory" pissing people off... I'm not willing to commit to an exact series of events and I don't have an explanation for everything, but there are way too many coincidences and it was convenient in that it allowed Bush to get the war(s) he wanted. Way too many unanswered questions about that day for it to have been exactly what they said it was.  I don't believe it.  The CIA has been carrying out false flag events for years and blaming it on our enemies.  Other governments do it, too... just the way it is.  It's always happened and always will.  Just a fact of life.

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Sailor Man
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So about that money...
Do you even understand how much you're insulting the people who died that day by saying there's a conspiracy? Or how much you're insulting their famalies? Please out of respect of the victoms, please stop saying theres a conspiracy.

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I don't understand how I'm insulting anyone by saying there was a cover-up.  All evidence points to one.  And the families of the victims have been calling for a new investigation for years.  I have more respect for those people and the rescue workers that have died since that horrible day than I can communicate and there is absolutely no reason not to open a new investigation.  Neither FEMA nor NIST can come up with an explanation of how WTC7 fell OR an explanation for the total collapse of both twin towers and admit that they were constructed to withstand the impact of a commercial jet, but they won't even entertain the idea of a controlled demolition.  What is also stated by NIST is that the fires in the buildings were not hot enough to melt steel.

NIST: "In no instance did NIST report that steel in the WTC towers melted due to the fires.  The melting point of steel is about 1,500 degrees Celsius (2,800 degrees Fahrenheit). Normal building fires and hydrocarbon (e.g. jet fuel) fires generate temperatures up to about 1,100 degrees Celsius (2,000 degrees Fahrenheit).  NIST reported maximum upper layer air temperatures of about 1,000 degrees Celsius (1,800 degrees Fahrenheit) in the WTC towers 9for example, see NCSTAR 1, figure 6-36)".---

SOURCE:  S. Sunder, W. Grosshandler, H.S. Lew, et al. "National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST) federal building and fire safety investigation of the World Trade Center disaster, answers to frequently asked questions", Gaithersburg, MD: National Institute of Standards and Technology, August 30, 2006. [Online]. Available: NIST, http://wtc.nist.gov

http://www.patriotsquestion911.com/survivors.html
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/story?id=3881195&page=1
http://www.pilotsfor911truth.org/
http://www.tomflocco.com/fs/WidowBattling.htm
http://www.bentham.org/open/tociej/openaccess2.htm

There are thousands upon thousands of people who do not accept the official version of events and if you know anything about it at all, you know that initially, George W. Bush was opposed to an investigation and neither he nor Dick Cheney would even speak to the 9/11 Commission unless they could do so together.  The fact is, the official version of events is not logical in any sense, the behavior of a number of officials is suspicious, and there is no legal basis for the identities of the hijackers.  I have the utmost respect for the victims and their families... and that's why I've been fighting for a new investigation which answers questions no one in power wants to answer.  It's too important to just let it lie.

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Sailor Man
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So about that money...
STOP IT! Any one with commonc sense can see that half assed lies only insult those died that day. Please stop!

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If you can't offer any evidence to support your end, you shouldn't say I'm insulting anyone.

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Sailor Man
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So about that money...
Yes I can say you're insulting people. Do you have any idea how offfended your 'theroies' would be to a victims family?

Just stop this.

Edit: I've decided to ask a Mod to close this topic.
« Last Edit: May 12, 2008, 03:47:07 AM by SexualBubblegumX »

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Unless you are a relative of one of the victims you can't say you know how offended they would or wouldn't be.  Are you? 

The question was asked of me and I answered it.  You can say they're half-assed lies all you want to, but you can't argue with physics.  You should do some research and learn what you're talking about before you call anything a half-assed lie.

I'm moving on to other questions, now.

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So, you're asking a mod to close a topic because I decided to answer a question someone decided to ask me?  Lovely. 

Edit: to the mods, sorry for the double post; I didn't see the edit button until just now.

But, it's pretty ridiculous to request a mod to close this topic when I wasn't the one that started the flaming.  I was asked a question, offered an opinion in a respectful "tone of voice", and have stayed civil about it.
« Last Edit: May 12, 2008, 03:56:31 AM by thelivingphoenix »

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Sailor Man
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So about that money...
ACTUALLY, research is what conspiract theorists like you fail to do.

Seriously, a mod needs to close this NOW.

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And seriously, there's no reason for a mod to close it.  I didn't do anything wrong by answering a question; you started flaming me first. 

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Sailor Man
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So about that money...
I'm asking you to STOP, not flaming you.

And yes a mod needs to close this, because you're not understanding how you're insulting people.

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I am still curious about what your sources of information are.  That tells us a lot.

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@SexualBubblegumX: Unless your a relative of one of the victim's, you don't have a right to say I'm insulting someone who is not present.  If they are present and request me to stop, then I will.  But, you haven't stated whether you or anyone else here is, as I asked before.  You have no right to judge whether I'm insulting someone else or not.  If you don't want to read this topic, go read someone else's.  It's as simple as that.

@Arwym: I posted at least one source above as being the National Institute of Standards and Technology.  But, if you're implying that I get information from "conspiracy"-related websites, the answer is "yes", but not exactly.  A lot of the news articles that appear on those sites (especially "exclusive" stories) are unverifiable and generally ignored.  If an article comes from an educational website, mainstream news website (such as ABC, CBS, NBC, CNN, Reuters, various newspapers, etc.) or a government website and a link is offered to that article on THEIR site, then I'm able to count it as being a "source of information".  Conspiracy-related sites are NOT "reliable sources", simply because they are automatically not reputable in the eyes of the public due to the nature of their content. 

http://www.zogby.com/search/ReadNews.dbm?ID=1354 :  51% of Americans Want Congress to Probe Bush/Cheney Regarding 9/11 Attacks; Over 30% Seek Immediate Impeachment

http://www.zogby.com/search/ReadNews.dbm?ID=855 : Half of New Yorkers Believe US Leaders Had Foreknowledge of Impending 9-11 Attacks and “Consciously Failed” To Act; 66% Call For New Probe of Unanswered Questions by Congress or New York’s Attorney General
« Last Edit: May 12, 2008, 04:48:17 AM by thelivingphoenix »

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Sailor Man
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So about that money...
As a man who loves his country I do have a right to ask you to stop. This is obviously offensive, you need to stop and think how a family member of a victim would act. And from what I understand, things like this offend them greatly. Cease and desist.

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@SexualBubblegumX: It's not just your country; it's also my country, too.

And thus far, no one has said anything about this topic being "offensive" except you.  Unless you're a relative of a victim of September 11th, you are the one who needs to stop.  One family's opinion is not necessarily the opinion of another family and I'm not debating with you anymore about whether a large number of the victims' families want a new investigation.  A lot of them do.  If the topic offends you, I apologize, but stop commenting on it and leave me alone.

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Sailor Man
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So about that money...
No I don't need to stop. You aren't understanding your actions. Hence YOU need to stop.

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Okay, so explain my "actions" to me, because I think I understand them just fine.  I stated an opinion and if you don't like that opinion, stop reading the topic and let other people speak.

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While I agree with SBX that it's a bit insulting, I won't lock the topic. That would be encroaching a bit on RMRK's laid back and uncensored side.

However I will say your "sources" are questionable at best, especially considering the contradictory information. Yes, NIST said the steel wasn't at a temperature hot enough to melt, but they also said that the warping of the steel alone was not enough for the buildings to collapse; the impact contributed greatly. Glen Corbin, a fire chief and professor of fire science says the fire was not hot enough to melt the steel, but it was hot enough to warp it until it bent and could no longer sustain the weight. But I can see why wouldn't want to listen to professors and such. Might as well make up our own facts because that way life is more entertaining.

Conspiracy theorists just take disparate facts and put them together, but unlike real theorists, they put them together in a way that's laced with paranoia, and without any real evidence.
:tinysmile:

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I'm not asking anybody to believe what I believe about what happened and I'm not going to be so arrogant as to say I know for a fact who was behind it.  But, I do know that there have been too many people surrounding the "official" investigation that either already have sketchy political motives (Henry Kissinger, for one) OR have acted suspiciously.  Not only that, but a number of former CIA and FBI agents have come forward to say the whole thing stinks. 

I do listen to "professors and such" and there are certainly plenty of them that don't agree with the official version of events.

I posted the thing about NIST mainly to show that what most people think they know about 9/11, they don't really know.  Ask most people and they'll say the fires melted the steel and that caused the buildings to collapse, but that's not true.  Most people that I've spoken with had no idea there was a third building that collapsed, WTC7.  They're just clueless like "third building? huh??".  What has also been rejected by NIST is the "pancake theory" of collapse and neither FEMA nor NIST can even come close to explaining WTC7. 

To comment on the impact being a factor in their collapse, both FEMA and NIST also admitted that the buildings were designed with the impact of a commercial jet in mind.  They were constructed to withstand such an impact.  These buildings were over-engineered to withstand a lot of things and should not have collapsed in the manner they did. 

Not only that, but NIST also did experiments concerning the fires in the WTC.

NIST: "The initial jet fuel fires themselves lasted ast most a few minutes"... "At any given location, the duration of [air, not steel] temperatures near 1,000 degrees Celsius was about 15 min to 20 min. The rest of the time, the calculated temperatures were near 500 degrees Celsius or below."

There is also the destruction of the evidence at the crime scene, whereupon thousands upon thousands of tons of steel from the buildings were shipped to foreign countries to be recycled.  Don't we have steel refineries/steel mills in the US?

@Mattsaysfooey:   There are a number of people who believe the Reichstag building in Germany was set on fire by Hermann Goering, because of an affidavit during the Nuremburg trial in which General Franz Halder stated that he heard Hermann Goering speaking with Adolf Hitler and joking about setting fire to the building.  Goering was read the affidavit during the trial and basically said it was ridiculous.  Whether the affidavit of Franz Halder can be considered "proof", I'm not sure.  But, whether Marinus van der Lubbe started the fire or not is to be disputed and he has since been fully pardoned by Germany.  Some say he was mentally retarded, others say that's a lie.

The King of France also seized upon the rumors about the Knights Templar and had them all executed as a means to erase the debt that he had built up with them.  He accused them of heresy, end of problem.  It also ended the Catholic church's problem with the Templars, since they were slowly becoming just as rich and just as powerful. 

I'm not trying to offend anyone about this, but heads of state have had thousands and thousands killed throughout the centuries for personal and political motives and blamed it on others.  In light of the suspicious behavior of a number of US officials before/during/after the attacks, I believe a new investigation is certainly warranted.  Not only that, but Henry Kissinger, of all people, was initially appointed head of the 9/11 Commission (which would not have existed at all had it not been for the families of the victims calling for an investigation in the first place).  Not only that but BOTH President Bush AND Vice President Cheney did not testify under oath before the 9/11 Commission.  Others who testified before the commission such as Condoleeza Rice did so under oath, so why was an exception made for both Bush and Cheney and why were they allowed to speak together instead of separately, like others called to testify?  If they had nothing to hide, like they said, they should have spoken publicly at a hearing instead of privately and speaking under oath should have been required, as the attacks were obviously a matter of national security.

I agree with you, Matt, that the motive was certainly there for certain high level officials to conspire to have those attacks carried out, not only for personal and financial reasons, but also to bring about the Patriot Act and other attacks on civil liberties in the US.  Whether the Reichstag was actually burned down by Hermann Goering is irrelevant; it was used to pass the Enabling Act and given as the reason for the "Reichstag Fire Decree", which removed most civil rights of German citizens, including freedom of opinion, habeas corpus, freedom of the press, freedom to organize and assemble, and removed the privacy of postal, telephonic, and telegraphic communications.  Additionally, the need for a warrant to search a person's property was also made unnecessary.  The Reichstag Fire Decree effectively suspended the Constitution of the German Reich "until further notice".
« Last Edit: May 12, 2008, 09:01:46 AM by thelivingphoenix »