God and Hell.

Did no one notice the bit where I said the Bible mentions Nessy? (No one laughed. =/ )

@HoTS - The arguement was a joke. It wasn't meant to be taken seriously.
While you didn't say anything about them breathing fire, the Bible passages refering to the leviation and behemoth do. (If only one of them)
So I was making a semi-serious arguement with it.

EDIT : Also, Christianity (Judeaism) is the only religion that had no begining. It was here forever. Every other religion has had a begining. Why is that?
If you really believe that we created God to explain Science, tell me when He was "created".

EDIT 2: REFERING TO DIVORCE -

If you divorce for stupid reasons (had an arguement) and get married, that is a sin.
There are certain reasons for getting divorced (continued adultry, assault,murder, etc.) that are understood.

When you get married, you and your wife (or vice versa) become one body, not physically, but spiritually. This is why divorce is so painful, your ripping one piece into two. You can try to tape pieces together, but they'll never be the same again.

EDIT : Also, Christianity (Judeaism) is the only religion that had no begining. It was here forever. Every other religion has had a begining. Why is that?
If you really believe that we created God to explain Science, tell me when He was "created".

What?

EDIT : Also, Christianity (Judeaism) is the only religion that had no begining. It was here forever. Every other religion has had a begining. Why is that?
If you really believe that we created God to explain Science, tell me when He was "created".

Come on, Tsuno. You're a pretty smart guy, do we really have to go into this? I will say you could argue it's been around since the beginning of recorded history... actually, I can't be 100% about that, but I'm fairly sure that's correct... but the beginning of recorded history is not the beginning of time (hence the debate), so you can't say it had no beginning. The Big Bang didn't happen and then all of a sudden there was a universe, and on one planet called Earth, there were Jews. -.-

LOL, that was worded very poorly, but you get it.

Bringing up another issue (sort of). Since the big bang has pretty well been proven, why is it all of a sudden that Christians who said it never happened because God created everything are saying "Well, God caused the Big Bang.", when before they didn't believe it happened? This isn't the first time in Christianity we've seen this sort of thing happen. Things are twisted to fit their views every time, or something from the Bible just gets "overlooked".

You should kill your child if he strikes you

Women should be subjugated by their husbands

How come this isn't believed in today? So Christians can pick and choose which parts of the Bible they believe in? I don't think it's supposed to work that way, that would be an insult to God.

EDIT 2: REFERING TO DIVORCE -
If you divorce for stupid reasons (had an arguement) and get married, that is a sin.
There are certain reasons for getting divorced (continued adultry, assault,murder, etc.) that are understood.

In my school, we were taught divorce is a sin, period.

[sarcasm]I have observed the effects that God has on the people. Did you?

You have observed the effects that the belief in God has on people. The human mind is an amazing and powerful thing.

Also, Christianity (Judeaism) is the only religion that had no begining. It was here forever. Every other religion has had a begining. Why is that?
If you really believe that we created God to explain Science, tell me when He was "created".

I hope you were joking.

So it would be better to kill your wife first?

You know it would be easy to give her a divorce first.
EVen if you have to force her to. @_@

I'm simply going to say that, in the end, does it really matter? If Tsuno wants to believe in his God, then by all means let him do what he needs to do to get himself through his day. I don't believe God exists, but I'm also not going to try and pick at every flaw in the religion because I honestly don't think it would accomplish much of anything.

I can believe that Bruce Willis is a god. As ridiculous as such a belief may be, it's still a belief and no one's going to change it for me. The only way one can truly change their beliefs is by oneself.

The same can be applied to Tsuno's situation. We can all sit here and argue with him constantly about whether God exists, but in the end he'll still believe in God no matter how the topic ends. That's one of the main reasons I feel religion is something that should never be debated. It's entirely based on belief systems, and there are too many unanswered questions to prove one side over another.

EDIT : Also, Christianity (Judeaism) is the only religion that had no begining. It was here forever. Every other religion has had a begining. Why is that?
If you really believe that we created God to explain Science, tell me when He was "created".

This isn't right. Juaism goes back to around fivethousand years ago. It did indeed have a 'begining'. By the way, my religion goes back six thousand years Tsuno. I love you Tsuno, in a non creepy way of course, but yo the point, Tsuno.... YOU'RE the Heathen.

I'm simply going to say that, in the end, does it really matter? If Tsuno wants to believe in his God, then by all means let him do what he needs to do to get himself through his day. I don't believe God exists, but I'm also not going to try and pick at every flaw in the religion because I honestly don't think it would accomplish much of anything.

Okay, Tsuno believes in God, thats why he posted this.
All I-D topics debate on whether it is or not, on everyones point of view, so the thing youre saying the If Tsuno believes let him and dont flaw will make a useless waste out of I-D.

Nightwolf... Uh this is in ID, and I wouldn't call this topic a waste at all.

What if Heaven and Hell are the same place... like this world we are in now, to some its a Heaven and others a Hell...

Who's to say we have not been alive as some other being prior to now and this is our Heaven or Hell we are living now...

Well thats bollox really, but what if...

The after life could be a mirror image of this, but depending on your mood depends on your experince...

Okay, Tsuno believes in God, thats why he posted this.
All I-D topics debate on whether it is or not, on everyones point of view, so the thing youre saying the If Tsuno believes let him and dont flaw will make a useless waste out of I-D.

Translate this into English for me and maybe I'll respond to it.

What if Heaven and Hell are the same place... like this world we are in now, to some its a Heaven and others a Hell...

Who's to say we have not been alive as some other being prior to now and this is our Heaven or Hell we are living now...

Well thats bollox really, but what if...

The after life could be a mirror image of this, but depending on your mood depends on your experince...

That's so irrational I punched myself.

Okay, Tsuno believes in God, thats why he posted this.
All I-D topics debate on whether it is or not, on everyones point of view, so the thing youre saying the If Tsuno believes let him and dont flaw will make a useless waste out of I-D.

My Intrup of this is... If some one wishes to believe in God then let them, don't knock it or diss it, its a matter of choice and opinion, a personal point of view, not some thing to pull apart and make a mock of...

But to be honest its hard not to when the Bible is not much more factual than any other fictional novel... Its all hear say and different peoples views and its that old who knows what really happened back then... And frankly who cares...

But if people would rather have belief in another rather then them selves as long as they draw strength from that then I am all for it... I wont mock or diss those that find comfort and strength in some thing that I don't understand or wish to...

And I think at the end of the day every one should respect that...

That's so irrational I punched myself.

You make me laugh Fu... Comic Genius...LOL

I was wondering a while ago about how I'd incorporate religion into my game concept. At first I was going to make the game completely atheist, but I realized that would be way too hard. And since I was currently reading the Dragonlance series at the time, I made three gods in my game. One would rule over the heaven, or the Valhalla or Arcadia or whatever you want to call it. One would rule over the underworld or "hell." And the third would rule over what I named Cipheria, a spiritual destination that is not heaven nor hell, good nor evil. In fact, it is nothing. Your spirit is sent into complete nothingness, and you suffer it forever. Since those who are good are blessed with the heaven, and those who are evil are blessed with the hell, there was nowhere for the truly criminal to go. So I made a place for people who committed the most heinous crimes against humanity.

This really has nothing to do with the topic, I just thought it'd be interesting to share.

EDIT 2: REFERING TO DIVORCE -

If you divorce for stupid reasons (had an arguement) and get married, that is a sin.
There are certain reasons for getting divorced (continued adultry, assault,murder, etc.) that are understood.

When you get married, you and your wife (or vice versa) become one body, not physically, but spiritually. This is why divorce is so painful, your ripping one piece into two. You can try to tape pieces together, but they'll never be the same again.

Yes, you can get divorced ON THE PAPER, but you can't get divorced in the Christian way. You can even marry again ON THE PAPER, but you can't have another marriage in a church with all the traditional stuff and so on. That means you can even live with another woman and stuff, but that is a sin as you actually are cheating on your true wife.

Bringing up another issue (sort of). Since the big bang has pretty well been proven, why is it all of a sudden that Christians who said it never happened because God created everything are saying "Well, God caused the Big Bang.", when before they didn't believe it happened? This isn't the first time in Christianity we've seen this sort of thing happen. Things are twisted to fit their views every time, or something from the Bible just gets "overlooked".

You can argue over and over it, Christianity was never meant to explain anything. Yes, Christians are strange sometimes... Actually they strange all the time... :=
Lol, look at me, I don't even go to Church on sunday. >.< Thing is that "the institution Church" has become... well too much of an institution.

How come this isn't believed in today? So Christians can pick and choose which parts of the Bible they believe in? I don't think it's supposed to work that way, that would be an insult to God.

Yes, I agree. Again you have to consider these words were written in a time where people would lose their life for sinning. These are not the modern days. Also you have to consider, the Bible may be "God's word", but it was written by humans with free will, who actually could have understood God's word wrong... -_- That's why Jesus came down: To fix the typos in the Bible for some reason. >.<
This is said very "simple", lol!

In my school, we were taught divorce is a sin, period.

Just like I said. I was also taught, divorce is a sin, it's even a very big one.

I'm simply going to say that, in the end, does it really matter? If Tsuno wants to believe in his God, then by all means let him do what he needs to do to get himself through his day. I don't believe God exists, but I'm also not going to try and pick at every flaw in the religion because I honestly don't think it would accomplish much of anything.

Yes, nobody forces you to believe or not. I totally agree on this part. Humans are not perfect, neither are the religions THEY have created and THEY have interpreted maybe wrong.

The same can be applied to Tsuno's situation. We can all sit here and argue with him constantly about whether God exists, but in the end he'll still believe in God no matter how the topic ends. That's one of the main reasons I feel religion is something that should never be debated. It's entirely based on belief systems, and there are too many unanswered questions to prove one side over another.

Yes, in the end it's not even important if there actually IS a God or not: It's faith that counts!

This really has nothing to do with the topic, I just thought it'd be interesting to share.

Lol, off topic. Yes, it's an interesting idea. I guess as long as there are humans, there will always be something like faith and religion.

You guys can think what you want, but last time I checked, I'm perfect. So there!

Naw seriously, Sin is a concept born of ignorance and it's been a dangerous concept to boot. Hell this ignornce is why the spanish inquisition happened. and Why people were converted at sword pouint before that. Basaclly, I think Jesus was history's greatest Monster. One day, Mohammed wil usurp him, but it'll still take a while.

So, fuck you Jesus Christ. You aren't wise and you never will be. You deserve NONE of the praise you get. And well, you probably didn't exsist to boot.

Nightwolf... Uh this is in ID, and I wouldn't call this topic a waste at all.

thats what im trying to say
Gilgamesh is saying theres no point discussing, but then its a waste right?
SO he's wrong lol
So..go on discuss stuff

Yes!

And well. I'm not sure who I hate more Jesus or Buddha.

@Fu: Lol! Well, that's your opinion. ^^

You guys can think what you want, but last time I checked, I'm perfect. So there!

Naw seriously, Sin is a concept born of ignorance and it's been a dangerous concept to boot. Hell this ignornce is why the spanish inquisition happened. and Why people were converted at sword pouint before that. Basaclly, I think Jesus was history's greatest Monster. One day, Mohammed wil usurp him, but it'll still take a while.

So, fuck you Jesus Christ. You aren't wise and you never will be. You deserve NONE of the praise you get. And well, you probably didn't exsist to boot.

... Last time I checked this was an intelligant debate board. Not a mindless rant board. You don't see me dissing your religion do you? Why diss mine? What you just said is like me walking up to you and saying -
"Mohammed was never real, he was a ball of crap some drunk guys picked up one day and started calling Mohammed. They thought it would be funny to screw with the world so they made a new religion. That is history's most dangerous piece of crap ever."

While I'm not exactly good with insults (it's been a while) I think you get my point. So, either -

1.) Straighten up.
2.) Continue ranting and I'll lock this topic and request it be deleted.

As much as I like this topic, I have no problem of getting rid of it.

Quit taking it personally. It was aimed at the religion, not at you. That's his opinion, let him have it.

I agree with Zypher. If you don't like my religion, you don't have to. Period.

I only want to point out one fact about what Fu said: "The apostles made Jesus up." or something like that, but much longer...
Do you really think 12 different men who were living normal lives and never have met each other before would have given their lives for a lie? I don't think so.

Quit taking it personally. It was aimed at the religion, not at you. That's his opinion, let him have it.

But I do take it personally. That's something you (Zypher) wouldn't understand. (You did say you were aetheist correct?)

Everybody on this forum who has a religion will agree, that one of the most painful things to read is someone dissing their god.

Also, there are rules against flaming. They're not enforced as much in ID, but if it's off topic they can be.

EDIT : @Blizzard - You could also use that as a proof for Christianity.

Do you really think 12 different men who were living normal lives and never have met each other before would have given their lives for a lie? I don't think so.

But there are soldiers in Iraq giving their lives for a lie right now!

edit: pwn

Not true. I say, if you don't like my religion, you don't have to. Period.
Flaming is not nice in any way it can be done. It even wouldn't be nice if I flamed my ex here just because I wanted to. In that point you're right, Tsuno. But it's not good if you take it personally. You are not the entire Christianity and not all of them agree with you (i.e. me).

EDIT:

@Zypher: They were told a lie, they haven't made it up.