Smash Democracy NOW!

Finding the right answer for a whole system - people, earth and culture - is difficult. Democracy sidesteps that question and functions by selecting the most popular option, promoting alongside it a social order of the same. If many (but not necessarily most) people like something, it must be good, regardless of its consequences. Suppose a product is garbage, a leader is criminal-minded, or a social group psychotic? As long as the product, person or group is popular, these questions are never raised. Democracy is insanity, and therefore we must smash democracy!

Are you a communist? Fascist?

i support diacatorships, but only if im the dictator

Are you a communist? Fascist?

Akin to fascism, I suppose.

Ah but if society was ruled by one person, who is to say that one person is better than every other person? That that person has all the answers? If a large number of people is not fit to decide what is right, what makes a single person more able?

Ah but if society was ruled by one person, who is to say that one person is better than every other person? That that person has all the answers? If a large number of people is not fit to decide what is right, what makes a single person more able?

When I say akin to fascism, I mean as in a leadership oriented form of governing, not necesarilly Nazism or Hitlerism (being forms of beurocratic autocracy).  Think less Nazi and more tribal council or local rulers, such as you might find in the ancient Pagan cultures in Scandanavia or Mali; or caste-based fuedal societies of the classical civilazations of Germany or Japan or ancient India, which produced the height of human cultural and artistic achievement.

Research your govermental systems before you say stuff like that.

Fascism is where all power is invested into one person and one political power. (Nazi Germany)
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And BTW: Democracy is not a type of government. :wink:
Democracy is a system of voting for something, as opposed to one person choosing.
And we don't vote for different key issues, if you knew as much about our government as you think you do, you would know that it's not as simple as you make it out to be.

And we have a little thing called the Constitution which keeps those who do have the power in check. And we have a system of checks and balances, as well as the fact that power is split between competing parties.

Our system is set so that no one has too much power. We fear anarchy (no government) and dictators.

Don't diss something our ancestors have died protecting for hundreds of years.

Research your govermental systems before you say stuff like that.

Fascism is where all power is invested into one person and one political power. (Nazi Germany)
____________________________________________________________________________

And BTW: Democracy is not a type of government. :wink:
Democracy is a system of voting for something, as opposed to one person choosing.
And we don't vote for different key issues, if you knew as much about our government as you think you do, you would know that it's not as simple as you make it out to be.

And we have a little thing called the Constitution which keeps those who do have the power in check. And we have a system of checks and balances, as well as the fact that power is split between competing parties.

Our system is set so that no one has too much power. We fear anarchy (no government) and dictators.

Don't diss something our ancestors have died protecting for hundreds of years.

Democracy doesnt work. It is the very worst system ever.

Dont take this as just ranting please read on.

Democracy is run buy the people.

if a person lies and says something like...oh i dont know, they saysoandso worships the devil, or soandso stole something form someone, but thats not what happened, but the people beleive him those people get angry and they kill that person now the truth it told to them they just killed a man for no reason thats demcracy

Ah but if society was ruled by one person, who is to say that one person is better than every other person? That that person has all the answers? If a large number of people is not fit to decide what is right, what makes a single person more able?

Exactly. How do we know that he and like-minded people won't lead us to ruin like every other communist and fascist nation? Democracy works because there is an apparatus in place that lets the people select what kind of leader they want, and if they don't like the leader he can be removed just as easily (I don't want to get in an argument about George Bush's election, but I will state that he should not have won the 2000 election and that it was not an example of democracy in action) Democracy is hardly a tyranny of the many as there are always systems in place to protect the few, such as the First Amendment, which prevents unpopular opinions from being stifled.

By the way, it seems I have been logged in for  1 day, 1 hour and 1 minute.

When I say akin to fascism, I mean as in a leadership oriented form of governing, not necesarilly Nazism or Hitlerism (being forms of beurocratic autocracy).  Think less Nazi and more tribal council or local rulers, such as you might find in the ancient Pagan cultures in Scandanavia or Mali; or caste-based fuedal societies of the classical civilazations of Germany or Japan or ancient India, which produced the height of human cultural and artistic achievement.

The Scandinavians and Malians were hardly the height of classical civilization - the Vikings were terrific warriors but how well would those uneducated backwater dwellers have fared against a Roman legion? I know next to nothing about ancient Mali but I can say that Africa is a hellhole and tribalism is one of the worst enemies of stability in the continent, as evidenced by the Rwandan genocide.

Germany only became powerful after the little princedoms united in the late 1800s - don't be fooled, the First Reich was a joke and the provinces were de facto independent nations. Ancient India produced important works in the field of mathematics, astronomy, and linguistics, and then they stagnated until the British took over and today it is also disease-ridden hellhole full of backwards people who get tuberculosis from living like animals and think polio vaccines are an attempt to sterilize Muslims. Hardly the legacy of a great civilization.

And BTW: Democracy is not a type of government. :wink:

Yes it is.

Democracy doesnt work. It is the very worst system ever.

Dont take this as just ranting please read on.

Democracy is run buy the people.

if a person lies and says something like...oh i dont know, they saysoandso worships the devil, or soandso stole something form someone, but thats not what happened, but the people beleive him those people get angry and they kill that person now the truth it told to them they just killed a man for no reason thats demcracy

Democracy works - but only if the people are educated. Also, your example is not an example of democracy.

EDIT: god damn this quote system.

EDIT 2: god damn this quote system again.

My example is an example of democracy have we forgotten what democracy is?

Lets have a refresher course then.

Democracy is run BY THE PEOPLE which means what the people choose goes, which means if they say he will die then he will, my example is democracy in its purest form.

My example is an example of democracy have we forgotten what democracy is?

Lets have a refresher course then.

Democracy is run BY THE PEOPLE which means what the people choose goes, which means if they say he will die then he will, my example is democracy in its purest form.

Your example is that of a mob acting irrationally, which is not democracy in any way. Nobody in the mob can voice any dissenting opinion or else they will join the condemned man. SOunds a lot like fascism to me. Would you say that Nazi Germany was democratic?

are you an idiot?

democracy is a mob, if the people are a mob. The goverment that is a democracy has the mood of its people of the people want war then the goverment wants war.

people sometimes for get  or are ignorant of the fact that America is NOT A DEMOCRACY!!! America is a Republic.We dont rule America, our representatives rule America. Which is why America has lasted as long as it  has no matter how foolish our leaders our.

230 years is not a long time for a country to exist.

are you an idiot?

democracy is a mob, if the people are a mob. The goverment that is a democracy has the mood of its people of the people want war then the goverment wants war.

people sometimes for get  or are ignorant of the fact that America is NOT A DEMOCRACY!!! America is a Republic.We dont rule America, our representatives rule America. Which is why America has lasted as long as it  has no matter how foolish our leaders our.

You are equating democracy to mob rule, but the two are mutually exclusive. Mobs force people who go along with them with the threat of violence. This is not a democracy as it does not allow freedom of thought or make room for a minority. Mobs exist only in the absence of a democracy or when one fails. Democracies only function when people are free to make decisions on their own without the threat of punishment. True democracies also have systems in place to protect minorities from majorities.

A healthy ideology is one whose foundation rests upon people working towards common goals - and achieving them.

The idealogy of Democracy is irrational, it shatters any possiblity of a society achieving internal concensus on shared values or goals by claiming that everyone and everyone's ideas are inherently equal, and they are therefor equally capable of making good decicions concerning their own governing.  This is simply madness.  People are absolutely not equal at making good decisions, as most people are selfish and will almost always make decisions (in a democratic society that translates into voting habits) that favor their personal comfort no matter what the cost of that decision is to the world around them.  Let's look at American's and their huge cars.  Big cars are comfortable, however, they are extremely inefficient, they waste fuel, and they are detremental to the environment, however, most will never give up their big cars unless they are coerced.  That's the key, most people will make selfish and ultimately destructive decisions unless they are forced to do the right thing (which is usually less comfortable, as it involves a certain amount of self sacrifice).  Good and intelligent and forward thinking people will usually make good and intelligent and forward thinking decisions, these people must be made to lead, and the others must be coerced.

The common goal of any society should be the bettering of the society as a whole, not the particular comfort of selfish individuals, that is the path to stagnation and death (see the fall off the the Roman Empire for details).

It is interesting to note; selfishness and innaction is usually justified by these individuals by claiming to bear illusory concepts such as liberty / equality / freedom / morality; these people are parasites and should never be allowed to make any decisions concerning their's or anyone's governence.

You are equating democracy to mob rule, but the two are mutually exclusive. Mobs force people who go along with them with the threat of violence. This is not a democracy as it does not allow freedom of thought or make room for a minority. Mobs exist only in the absence of a democracy or when one fails. Democracies only function when people are free to make decisions on their own without the threat of punishment. True democracies also have systems in place to protect minorities from majorities.

In our modern society, people with decenting veiws are not sought out and destroyed, instead they and their ideas are simply ostracised and denied popularity which equates to money, which equates to power.  The methods are more passive, but the effect is the same, people with minority views are denied the ability to do anything about it, or to live any other way.

For example: Simply being percieved to be a racist is a career ending affair in American politics.

230 years is not a long time for a country to exist.

I never said it was.

I have to agree with, hateforest on this one, as long as americans beleive themselfs to be the ruler of themselves we cant get ANYwhere a

are you an idiot?

democracy is a mob, if the people are a mob. The goverment that is a democracy has the mood of its people of the people want war then the goverment wants war.

people sometimes for get  or are ignorant of the fact that America is NOT A DEMOCRACY!!! America is a Republic.We dont rule America, our representatives rule America. Which is why America has lasted as long as it  has no matter how foolish our leaders our.

You are equating democracy to mob rule, but the two are mutually exclusive. Mobs force people who go along with them with the threat of violence. This is not a democracy as it does not allow freedom of thought or make room for a minority. Mobs exist only in the absence of a democracy or when one fails. Democracies only function when people are free to make decisions on their own without the threat of punishment. True democracies also have systems in place to protect minorities from majorities.

there is no such thing as a true democracy. And your mob rule is foolish, people dont join mobs in fear they join in anger. there is no such thing as a working goverment every goverment has faults, especially a democracy.

there is no such thing as a true democracy. And your mob rule is foolish, people dont join mobs in fear they join in anger. there is no such thing as a working goverment every goverment has faults, especially a democracy.

What garbage. You seem to think that the only kind of democracy is direct democracy, which would be nearly impossible to implement on a large scale. Since you think that representative democracy is fascist and repressive you claim that the whole system is flawed. Tell me: what kind of government is preferable? Do you want to live in a totalitarian state with a monster at the head? It worked well in Stalinist Russia, huh? Or an absolutist monarchy, with a corruptible king who is above all laws? The French monarchs did a lot of good for their people, didn't they? The old quip "Democracy is the worst system of government in the world except for all the rest" applies here.

And my example of a mob was not about the majority but the minority whose dissenting views are stifled because of fear and the overwhelming peer pressure that exists in a mob. Not a democracy in any way.

Super Smash Bros. Democracy!!!


NEWCOMER: Dick Cheney.
 Special B move: Shotgun to face.


Sorry. You can delete this post if you want.

Super Smash Bros. Democracy!!!


NEWCOMER: Dick Cheney.
 Special B move: Shotgun to face.


Sorry. You can delete this post if you want.

lol

there is no such thing as a true democracy. And your mob rule is foolish, people dont join mobs in fear they join in anger. there is no such thing as a working goverment every goverment has faults, especially a democracy.

What garbage. You seem to think that the only kind of democracy is direct democracy, which would be nearly impossible to implement on a large scale. Since you think that representative democracy is fascist and repressive you claim that the whole system is flawed. Tell me: what kind of government is preferable? Do you want to live in a totalitarian state with a monster at the head? It worked well in Stalinist Russia, huh? Or an absolutist monarchy, with a corruptible king who is above all laws? The French monarchs did a lot of good for their people, didn't they? The old quip "Democracy is the worst system of government in the world except for all the rest" applies here.

And my example of a mob was not about the majority but the minority whose dissenting views are stifled because of fear and the overwhelming peer pressure that exists in a mob. Not a democracy in any way.

did you miss the part where i said all goverments have faults, or the part where no goverment works?

did you miss the part where i said all goverments have faults, or the part where no goverment works?

Nice backpedaling. Earlier you only condemned democracy and I defended it; at no point did I say that it was perfect but that it was the best thing available to imperfect creatures. Indeed, I admitted democracy had its faults on several occasions. I suppose you advocate some form of anarchism? My friend, anarchism just wouldn't work. Almost as soon as an anarchical way of life would be established Big Men would rise and the anarchy would organize into tribes and perhaps the odd ethnocentric democracy in the style of the Athenians. If we were perfect anarchy would work, but we aren't.

Also, saying that no government was so nonsensical I didn't know what to make of it. Perhaps you can clarify?

did you miss the part where i said all goverments have faults, or the part where no goverment works?

Nice backpedaling. Earlier you only condemned democracy and I defended it; at no point did I say that it was perfect but that it was the best thing available to imperfect creatures. Indeed, I admitted democracy had its faults on several occasions. I suppose you advocate some form of anarchism? My friend, anarchism just wouldn't work. Almost as soon as an anarchical way of life would be established Big Men would rise and the anarchy would organize into tribes and perhaps the odd ethnocentric democracy in the style of the Athenians. If we were perfect anarchy would work, but we aren't.

Also, saying that no government was so nonsensical I didn't know what to make of it. Perhaps you can clarify?

you misunderstand me, I never said that i advocated anarchism, i haven't stated what government system i believe in.  What I meant was that no government works for everybody. Somebody has to choose the shit list.

EDIT: On a side note please look at my avatar, now look a little lower.

What do you see?

TRAINING TO BE NAPHES REPLACEMENT

I lied. I support democracy as the best system yet available. I understand that none of the other goverments work half as well as it. I also understand that the republic america has set up is the second best nd the best available to such a large country.

I sill beleive a Democracy doesnt get things done as quick as needed because we sit around bickerinig of what we should do

HaloOfTheSun edit: The "Modify" button exists for a reason. 

you misunderstand me, I never said that i advocated anarchism, i haven't stated what government system i believe in.  What I meant was that no government works for everybody. Somebody has to choose the shit list.

Liar. You trashed democracy and didn't mention any other system of government. I understood you quite well.

Democracy doesnt work. It is the very worst system ever.

Sshould have edited your comments, babe.

EDIT: On a side note please look at my avatar, now look a little lower.

What do you see?

TRAINING TO BE NAPHES REPLACEMENT

That means nothing to me.

I lied.

I doubt it. More likely you are the sort of person who opens his mouth when he has no idea what he is talking about and should stay quiet.

I support democracy as the best system yet available. I understand that none of the other goverments work half as well as it. I also understand that the republic america has set up is the second best nd the best available to such a large country.

Democracy doesnt work. It is the very worst system ever.

I sill beleive a Democracy doesnt get things done as quick as needed because we sit around bickerinig of what we should do

Thank Jesus Hitler for all the time politicians spend debating. The waiting period for laws is intentional, as it allows for review by legal scholars and prevents knee-jerk legislation. Say a pedophile kidnaps and tortures a girl. Without a waiting period people with hot heads could force through a law that, for example, imposes draconian sentences on all sex offenders regardless of the nature of the crime. Suddenly, 18 year olds who have sex with their 17 year old girlfriends go to jail for 10 years; a man who spent five years in jail for rape now out on parole suddenly finds himself in jail again because new laws allow him to be sent back at the slightest whim of his parole officer. These laws still pop up from time to time but more often than not they are squashed by politicians and people stop caring.

My example is an example of democracy have we forgotten what democracy is?

Lets have a refresher course then.

Democracy is run BY THE PEOPLE which means what the people choose goes, which means if they say he will die then he will, my example is democracy in its purest form.

Your example is that of a mob acting irrationally, which is not democracy in any way. Nobody in the mob can voice any dissenting opinion or else they will join the condemned man. SOunds a lot like fascism to me. Would you say that Nazi Germany was democratic?

Well, speaking of refresher courses, let's take a look at the denotative meaning of the word "DEMOCRACY"

1.   government by the people; a form of government in which the supreme power is vested in the people and exercised directly by them or by their elected agents under a free electoral system.
2.   a state having such a form of government: The United States and Canada are democracies.
3.   a state of society characterized by formal equality of rights and privileges.
4.   political or social equality; democratic spirit.
5.   the common people of a community as distinguished from any privileged class; the common people with respect to their political power.

And let's take a look at the 2 kinds of democracies.
Direct Democracy -    a form of democracy in which the people as a whole make direct decisions, rather than have those decisions made for them by elected representatives
i.e. Ancient Greece

Representative Democracy - a type of democracy in which the citizens delegate authority to elected representatives
i.e Ancient Rome

And under representative democracy is a republic and that system is what we have now.
1.   a state in which the supreme power rests in the body of citizens entitled to vote and is exercised by representatives chosen directly or indirectly by them.
2.   any body of persons viewed as a commonwealth.
3.   a state in which the head of government is not a monarch or other hereditary head of state.

Refresher? Yep...

you misunderstand me, I never said that i advocated anarchism, i haven't stated what government system i believe in.  What I meant was that no government works for everybody. Somebody has to choose the shit list.

Liar. You trashed democracy and didn't mention any other system of government. I understood you quite well.

Democracy doesnt work. It is the very worst system ever.

Sshould have edited your comments, babe.

EDIT: On a side note please look at my avatar, now look a little lower.

What do you see?

TRAINING TO BE NAPHES REPLACEMENT

That means nothing to me.

I lied.

I doubt it. More likely you are the sort of person who opens his mouth when he has no idea what he is talking about and should stay quiet.

I support democracy as the best system yet available. I understand that none of the other goverments work half as well as it. I also understand that the republic america has set up is the second best nd the best available to such a large country.

Democracy doesnt work. It is the very worst system ever.

I sill beleive a Democracy doesnt get things done as quick as needed because we sit around bickerinig of what we should do

Thank Jesus Hitler for all the time politicians spend debating. The waiting period for laws is intentional, as it allows for review by legal scholars and prevents knee-jerk legislation. Say a pedophile kidnaps and tortures a girl. Without a waiting period people with hot heads could force through a law that, for example, imposes draconian sentences on all sex offenders regardless of the nature of the crime. Suddenly, 18 year olds who have sex with their 17 year old girlfriends go to jail for 10 years; a man who spent five years in jail for rape now out on parole suddenly finds himself in jail again because new laws allow him to be sent back at the slightest whim of his parole officer. These laws still pop up from time to time but more often than not they are squashed by politicians and people stop caring.

I love how you can ASSume that im the kind of person that just "opens his mouth to say something when he knows nothing" I really was just fooling around. Well not fooling around, Im sure "educated" people like yourselves know what it is to play the devils advocate. Thats what i was doing. If you would stop gloating about how "great" America is and actually read the pots then take a second and think over it and how horrible democracy is to some people how it can be horrible for some people., How persecution is possible under this system.

You seem like the kind of person thats a super Patriot, you know the type they have American flags and big trucks and they listen to country music. Well i may be wrong i dont even know if you live in America so that could make me look like an ass couldnt it. I beleive the best government is a democracy for most times. Some times a dictator is the best.,

If the dictator was thoughtful and tried to do the best for his people then that government then that system would work best, but this is rare just look at the list of dictators this is because of how a dictator is made because they are made by conquest. Even so some country's flourish or have flourished under systems such as dictatorships and monarchies.