Pre-Destination or Free Will ?

[Chiakumu]

They are two different threads. This was not a christian thread about pre-destination.

Determinism is not pre-destination.

[Djangonator]

Close enough.

[GilgameshRO]

Whatever, debate between 3 schools rather than 2. Does it matter? You have to understand, from our point of view it looks the same. You're saying that things are predetermined, I'm saying that everything we do is done by our own free will.

[Irock]

Hmm, I would like to share a story with you, something that happened few days ago. A missionary from USA came to my city with purpose to "spread the word of God". He introduced to me: Hi, I'm a Christian. And besides he stole 30 minutes of my life, because my friend wanted to debate with him, he mentioned that we have a choice, and we have free will. Free will to choose should we go to hell or heaven. And only way to go to heaven, is not to be good person because that is not enough, but to follow Christ, because he payed for our sins by dieing on cross. OK, I'm sorry, but I don't see free will if I must to follow someone, who I haven't met in my life, not to burn in hell. Let it put this way, for example: I'm a good person and don't won't to go to hell, I want to go to heaven, that is my will, because I did good things whole my life and I think I deserve it. But I can't if I don't go to Church, worship God, and pray to Jesus. Is that a free will?

I'm sorry if it is not true hardcore Christian belief, because I'm not one, but at least I tried to put it closest I could to Christian debate thematic as you wanted it to be in disclaimer, and this could also easy be an issue of a Christian.

It doesn't state anywhere in the Holy Bible that you have to pray or go to church. You just have to belive in him. I won't quote the bible because I don't like getting religous on the internet.

Edit: I'm glad to see a Christian here for once. 

[Ravenshade]

Life isn't predetermined for the sheer logic that there is no way to access the future, there has been no known incidences, that actually support the idea of pre-determined fate. All studies relating to proving this hypothesis, have been discredited by the American, British, French, Indian, Japanese, and Australian science journals.

That gives me the influence that life is what we make of it, coincidences all coincide with each other. Fate is only predetermined if we plan our fate out and what we are going to do exactly from day one.

[Christina]

hmmm i dont think of hell as a place where sinners will go.
i believe everyone has a fair chance in going to heaven, because god wouldnt be fair by putting people who have just havent had the chance to learn about him.

[ataraxy2]

If you were a Christian who believe in predestination you'd be contradicting yourself. As God says you need Jesus in your heart, you need to let him in. With predestination there is no choice, God has planned for the wars to happen and who goes to Heaven and Hell already - it's predestined. Right?

[Ryter]

Personally speaking, I believe in free will.

Much of my reason for such comes from the Bible, but I also believe in a destiny of a sort; not predestination, precisely, but more like a certain likeliness of things happening in a specific manner.

[cobragamer]

The bible has evidence on both topics but most are taken out of context. If want to continue into this discussion and find it interesting I wouldn go look at John Calvin on wiki or something like that

[Elegy]

Well first you must consider the possibility (probability rather) of time NOT being a linear process.

So instead of thinking of fate as what we do from:

Here<-------------------------------------------------->To Here.

It might just as well be what we do here -->   .

[cobragamer]

God does not sentence you with Hell if he loved you enough to make in his own image. You have to not accept him or else you will go to hell. But I do think that in the end Gad does know who will accept him or reject him but he does not fore them to do one or the other.

[Darico]

Please back that up with some kinda prove.

[cobragamer]

Ge 1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.