It is public that we don't like hbgames.org

I thought I told you to sit on the bench. I would like to talk with some respectable members here...

That being said, and I doubt you'll read this because it sounds like you're not coming back, I never noticed problems with the mods there. It was more with the general attitude of the rest of the members.

That's what I meant. With "the mods should be more relaxed" I didn't mean " ZOMG, Just let him go", but "I'll just move/delete that topic and that's it.". I meant you should relax more at doing your job. I never said anything against the staff of the site as I think you're doing quite a good job. But exactly THAT's the site where nearly everybody starts off in RM. And that's why you guys get the most idiots. You said, you don't understand the background of the story. There is no background. I only say there are too many of these idiots there. Same reason why I left once. I am sorry if I offended anybody who doesn't deserve it (which I doubt that I did), but that's my opinion.
I know you can't just ban them, they technically have done nothing REALLY wrong and I don't request that you guys just ban them, but as I already said, it IS annoying and I think you would agree with that. THAT's the corruption I was talking off. Maybe you should do your job more relaxed...
"That guy is being an ass and hasn't read the rules AGAIN, I'll just lock the topic and give him a link to the rules." Silent moding can be more efficient than over and over being too soft. Don't make yourself the stress others cause. Let them feel it themselves.

Yes, there are lots of idiots. Lots and lots of idiots. I don't think the staff is stressed out about it. We often close a topic, refer them to the rules and leave it at that. Maybe a slight warning that will expire in a few hours-days (just so other mods know they have been warned once) and leave it at that. So maybe some people are treated kinda softly, but perhaps it just us giving people possibly new to forums and rmxp (as I was) at the same time a break.

And I have been modding and admining for quite some time on multiple forums. I think I know what I am doing. 

Alright.

But being a newbie at a forum or at RM is no reason to be an ass. Ok, if somebody doesn't read the rules, give him a link. Nothing bad about that. But there are people who are being idiots over and over. I have talked to many people who left hbgames.org out of different reasons. Many of them told me they would just love to hack that place. That's really pathetic. If you don't like it there, just leave as I did. I don't know how you have structured up the forums, so I don't know if you might be short of mods or not, but fact is, I have seen many topics staying for quite some time before they got closed/deleted/moved/whatever.

I admit, I was pretty pissed when I heard *somebody* requested a script that wasn't neither big nor too hard to make, but nobody did him the favor. And so he contacted me if I could do it. I know, many of you don't have the time and stuff, but you have at least 15 good scripters at hbgames.org, not to tell how many average, while we have only 3 here (and Zeriab is rarely active ). To be honest it happened quite often that somebody came to me, because on hbgames.org... blah blah blah..., but that's another story.

Well, when the forum was justing getting going, it grew a lot faster than it was modded. It does have a lot of moderators now, as most forums are doubled up with local mods. I do tend to take the more strick path at the asses, as the entire staff has put their foot down a lot since you left.

Script request do get passed up. Sometimes, it is possible to make, but at the same time boring as hell to do. I can say about 40% of the scripts I do are request, and 80% of the rest have addons and suggestions from members for improvement which I do. I think everyone does what they can.

So, your complaints are "tons of n00bs", "mods won't lay the law down" and "no one helps the good newbs."

I really don't think the justifies trolling however and those riduculous signatures. Believe me, I find the hacker and I will do more than hack some post. I don't think "a place full have hacked post" is .orgs fault. Just some random ass hole. "Annoying children" can't be helped anyways and as far as complaining goes, isn't that you are doing now with all due respect?

I actually like RMXP, there are some pretty useful recources and fun comps there (and there are SOME people who MIGHT give some newbs like me a hard time). I do not know the full story about why rmrk and rmxp have some kinda "issue" with each other, but I think they should both sit down, go have some Yum Cha and talk about it. They are both supporting RPG Makers in making their game and giving them a chance to branch out to meet new friends, idols and amazing people.

~Winged

I don't want to get myself out of here, but the original idea and the text isn't by me.
I don't know how it is now there, but I know what people tell me. I don't say I believe in everything what they say, but I have been there and I know the situation, but I don't know if it has improved. I'm glad to hear from you it actually has.
And you shouldn't mind that sig too much. Most probably I'll get bored of it and remove it in a few days anyway. I change my sigs more often than my gfs... And when I stop it, everybody will. It's always that way. Too bad actually, I like the style of the image.

I don't do too many requests. I usually make something for my own game and right after I post it for the entire community.

And if you find that hacker, kick his balls for me. Of course it's not hbgames.org's fault that the place was hacked. It were the members who actually flamed that person who hacked the site later (maybe the same idiots I am talking about...). I've seen what he has done to the site.

BTW, I didn't complain about the state of the site, since I'm not there anymore. I just stated out facts. As I said, I'm glad to hear the situation has improved. If you'd say something about my forums, I wouldn't care too much. If you were right, I'd try to improve it and that's usually it.

@Winged: It's actually no issue. It's just that we are more the guys who like to joke around. Most posts of the most active members are in spam where we're just being silly.
I admit, the topic title is a bit harsh.

Opinion is one thing, being an ass in general is another.

OMG, 1 c@n tak dike dis and den lol u, so 1 mus7 b better than u.

Oh yeah. You sound smart. (See, I can use sarcasm too).

So instead of making a decent argument, your rebuttle is just grade school comebacks?

As a moderator, you would think something like a "No Flame" policy (I imagine and hope you have a slight one) would include other forums. I guess not.

Many other forums I take part in strickly disallow any flaming of another communit and it's membersy. Perhaps that is why this place is a nesting ground for 1337 n00bs and is looked down upown by the rest of the RM community. I have heard the rumors of this place, but still gave it a chance. If the staff cannot uphold a decent rule to not flame other communities, then I really don't want any part of this place.

Just goes to show you can't believe every rumor you hear. Is there flaming here? Yes. Is it serious? 99% of the time, no. It's in a joking manner. Someone new here like yourself wouldn't realize that right away, which is partially how these rumors get started.

Honestly, I could care less how this forum is viewed by the rest of the RM community, RPG Maker is dying out anyway. The day I give a damn about what 13-16 year olds (which is predominately the RM community is) think about me is the day I'll eat my shoes.

So your solution is a rule to not "flame" other communities? Why not make it a rule that we can't joke about anything? I've never in my life seen people so uptight as those that are in the "business" of making crappy games which never end up getting finished in the first place.

And I will not leave unless instrusted by your staff or this issue is resolved. I would like to talk about this in a plesant way, so that means Nightwolf might have to sit the bench for this one.

Well then you sure as hell started this post out the wrong way didn't you?

I for one don't care if you stay, my job is to keep the forums clean of spam and in order, and while it may seem like I'm not doing my job to you, I can assure you that the entire time I'm here I am, as well as the other mods, and admin.

I've been awake for nearly 36 hours, and as you can tell, I'm in no mood for this crap.

Boah, Halo you really don't sleep much lately. Take it easy. I did it also. True, now I have less time to get things done, but at least I CAN do them.

@Seph: Yeah, I forgot to say that about the flamers HERE. But as I said, this is a forum where you can do your business or just be silly. We flame each other in spam, where we all know, it's just a joke. How old are you, BTW? With wife and kid I assume over 25.

EDIT: See what I mean?

http://rmrk.net/index.php?topic=4003.0

Just lol!

EDIT: LMAO! This is when I used to have a hot girl on my avatar for a week. That was funny! Everytime newbies asked me "R U A GIRL?".

http://rmrk.net/index.php?topic=3421.0

At most I laughed at Gilga's post just below mine.

Iread the thread and went to hbgames.org to see what you were talking about... I was ok. I didn't like the thing about needing to sigh up to get resourses. 

Listen Sep, what we think is what we think, and what you think is what you think
So we dont need to make our thoughts CLASH SOOO much.
Like once upon a time, these guys flamed yes(yesi was a newb and all) but i didnt give a damn. And this isnt our idea, blame The gaurdian angel lol.

I thought I told you to sit on the bench.

Well i am for your info, but by coinsedence the comp is in front of it..

SO DONT FIGHT! You can always say,

Plz thats not true

So instead of making a decent argument, your rebuttle is just grade school comebacks?

I have found that dealing with people with that kind of maturaty, it takes that kind of attitude. Out of no where, this kid comes in with his 1337 speek and completely avoids my arguments with sarcasm. I think I have been discussing this rather civilized with Bliz, so don't go on to me about make decent arguments.

Just goes to show you can't believe every rumor you hear. Is there flaming here? Yes. Is it serious? 99% of the time, no. It's in a joking manner. Someone new here like yourself wouldn't realize that right away, which is partially how these rumors get started.

Honestly, I could care less how this forum is viewed by the rest of the RM community, RPG Maker is dying out anyway. The day I give a damn about what 13-16 year olds (which is predominately the RM community is) think about me is the day I'll eat my shoes.

So your solution is a rule to not "flame" other communities? Why not make it a rule that we can't joke about anything? I've never in my life seen people so uptight as those that are in the "business" of making crappy games which never end up getting finished in the first place.

I have a feeling its more laziness of the staff here. You can play and joke around and still keep some fucking order. Yes, I do realisize this, and no how many boards I see this on, it never makes it past a few dozen members because new members immediately leave.

RM is dying out. You need to see some stats there bud. You don't have to give a damn in what others think, its taking pride in what you do.

Wow. You just went from something small into extreme. You went from flaming other communities to joking around. See the gap? Perhaps it is because you have been awake for 36 hours, but that's a pretty shitty argument. I moderate on the CA, and about 70% of the post are jokes and everyone has a good time. How many flame post do you see directed anywhere?

Well then you sure as hell started this post out the wrong way didn't you?

I for one don't care if you stay, my job is to keep the forums clean of spam and in order, and while it may seem like I'm not doing my job to you, I can assure you that the entire time I'm here I am, as well as the other mods, and admin.

I've been awake for nearly 36 hours, and as you can tell, I'm in no mood for this crap.

Umm... that was the end of my post, not the start. Get some sleep. You need it. When finally wake up, we can continue this debate. I would hope you aren't at your best because if you were... man... this is going to be easy.

Staff's job doesn't only extend to cleaning the forums, its keeping respectable members. Here I was, seeing you read this topic and hoping for a decent moderator who would actually see my point and possibly make a few changes for the better. I got a cop from the small town of 'blah' who prefers to eat some dougnuts rather than his job.

Sorry if I am seeming like an asshole here, but I really couldn't give a shit anymore. Don't even attack me with those riduculous arguments and expect me to lie down to that so you can look like the good guy here because I am not known.

@Night: "So we dont need to make our thoughts CLASH SOOO much."

You might be to young to understand this, but when grown-ups don't agree, we take our opinions and our education with us to disbute for what we believe in.

"SO DONT FIGHT! You can always say, Plz thats not true"

How is that debating? Seems more like "I am 5 and people made fun of me. Lets go run around on teh playground and not fight." then sign kumbaya or something. My guess is you can't make a decent argument, so when the situation arises, you use 137 speek mixed with sarcasm, then when that doesn't work, you turn to a singing hippy. Go take some debate class or something.

@Bliz: Believe me, I understand the "friendly flame." It is practically what I am known for at my work. I am the asshole everyone loves because I make people laugh. But I do it in the interest of fun, not meaning to offend anyone.

I am actually only 19. What can I say, I grew up fast. 

I have a feeling its more laziness of the staff here. You can play and joke around and still keep some fucking order. Yes, I do realisize this, and no how many boards I see this on, it never makes it past a few dozen members because new members immediately leave.

Hell, even I'm offended by this. Our mods ARE NOT lazy. Halo in particular does an excelent job at managing the people in the forums. Naturally, he's not superman. He can't always know what has to go and what can pass, but he does the best damn job he can do. From what I've seen the focus of this forum is just having a good time. Yes, it is an RPGmaker forum, but thats just a side dish. The members here pretty much all get along great with eachother, even if someone else can't see it.

RM is dying out. You need to see some stats there bud. You don't have to give a damn in what others think, its taking pride in what you do.

Taking pride in being a cock who supresses people in his free time?

Wow. You just went from something small into extreme. You went from flaming other communities to joking around. See the gap?

We can do whatever the hell we want in our own community. It's not like our members are going over to RMXP and harassing you guys.

Perhaps it is because you have been awake for 36 hours, but that's a pretty shitty argument. I moderate on the CA, and about 70% of the post are jokes and everyone has a good time. How many flame post do you see directed anywhere?

I don't know about your forum, but I see a flame post right here. Way to go from maybe a decent arguement to a personal assault.

I would hope you aren't at your best because if you were... man... this is going to be easy.

Do I even need to comment on this? What is going to be easy? Pwnin some n00bzors? You seem to see this arguement like a game. If you aren't serious then leave us the hell alone and mind your own business.

Staff's job doesn't only extend to cleaning the forums, its keeping respectable members.

No wonder your goddamn forum is full of assholes. EVERY MEMBER IS IMPORTANT. So they may not be smart, so they may not be nice, so they may not be skilled. Everyone is an important member of the community. You can't just keep the ones you like and treat the rest like shit.

@Night: "So we dont need to make our thoughts CLASH SOOO much."

You might be to young to understand this, but when grown-ups don't agree, we take our opinions and our education with us to disbute for what we believe in.

"SO DONT FIGHT! You can always say, Plz thats not true"

How is that debating? Seems more like "I am 5 and people made fun of me. Lets go run around on teh playground and not fight." then sign kumbaya or something.

Here you're totally being an ass to nightwolf for no reason. =/
Nightwolf is 100% right. There doesnt need to be an arguement here. You're creating unnecessary conflict, in someone else's forums, over something that isn't directly effecting you. You act like the concept of "lets just all get along" is a childish one, when in fact it is the most mature concept around. Sadly , it seems to take the youngest one here to realise that. If you think trying to get along with other people is CHILDISH, again, no wonder your forum is full of condescending trash.

Summing the last replies:

I didn't offend YOU, Seph and I didn't offend hbgames.org. I didn't offend the MEMBERS OF RMPX.ORG, I only said, bring some order in it. As sad as it may be, but I have to say Gilga is right. He's right with everything. Oh, BTW, I changed my sig. I made something more sexy this afternoon. You might like it as well. If you are that persistant I can delete the images, since they are all hotlinked from my photobucket account, just PM me or tell me here.

Only 19? I am older than you??? O_o I thought you were some programmer working for some company and stuffs with a growing family. I think I just lost all my respect for your "greater than my own" experience in life... :=

And now I am being 100% serious.
Do not flame or insult in any other way HaloOfTheSun. This guy is one of the most active and best mods I have ever seen in my life. He will mod a 2 times greater forum 60 hours without sleep better than you could mod one of a normal size have slept for the last few days about 12 hours. He's capable, smart, talented, funny, interesting has attitude and most important: he is humble, which you obviously are not. Flaming Halo is like flaming me twice as bad. What he says doesn't have to reflect my opinion as well, but flaming him because of this opinion which isn't wrong is a serious insult to him in my eyes.

Now calm down, take a break and start acting like you are preaching the whole time: Relaxed.
And the f*ck, stop flaming Nightwolf! Only because he's a lot younger than you doesn't mean you can flame him however you want! Nightwolf IS a respected member of this community. He doesn't go to other forums and flames others for their opinion for example.

Also I want to say CA is a completely different story than hbgames.org. I remember how we've had problems with a specific guy called "Dart". Vex told me how the guys from CA tried to redeem him even though that was already the IDK 3rd time he made big problems. You can't compare CA and hbgames.org. This is like black and white.

And another thing: We know you more than you think, Seph. How many times have I or any other member here redirected somebody to your scripts?! How many times have we posted "I think SephirothSpawn made something like this. Try this URL or this one." And how much have we heard about you?! As I said, don't flame Halo. That like running against a wall. You might not notice the first moment, but it will hurt you later the more.

@Nightwolf: It doesn't matter who's idea it originally was. I was supporting it and I am still doing. I'm not gonna abandon him and say "Uh, that was his idea, flame him! I only made the images!". This discussion is my fault as well, most probably even more than his.

HOLY SHIT YOU'RE ONLY 19 HAHA

So instead of making a decent argument, your rebuttle is just grade school comebacks?

I have found that dealing with people with that kind of maturaty, it takes that kind of attitude. Out of no where, this kid comes in with his 1337 speek and completely avoids my arguments with sarcasm. I think I have been discussing this rather civilized with Bliz, so don't go on to me about make decent arguments.

So you were talking to Nighwolf, and not me..... well, my point is still valid. I would've been more than glad to discuss this civilly with you, except for the fact it seems you are in all actuallity less than willing to do the same.

Just goes to show you can't believe every rumor you hear. Is there flaming here? Yes. Is it serious? 99% of the time, no. It's in a joking manner. Someone new here like yourself wouldn't realize that right away, which is partially how these rumors get started.

Honestly, I could care less how this forum is viewed by the rest of the RM community, RPG Maker is dying out anyway. The day I give a damn about what 13-16 year olds (which is predominately the RM community is) think about me is the day I'll eat my shoes.

So your solution is a rule to not "flame" other communities? Why not make it a rule that we can't joke about anything? I've never in my life seen people so uptight as those that are in the "business" of making crappy games which never end up getting finished in the first place.

I have a feeling its more laziness of the staff here. You can play and joke around and still keep some fucking order. Yes, I do realisize this, and no how many boards I see this on, it never makes it past a few dozen members because new members immediately leave.

Oh, come on! If you're this great and wonderful mod/admin on so many other forums, you'd know that everything you do is not always noticeable to the community. We don't keep order? I don't see anywhere on the forums where there is something out of control, except maybe this topic.

RM is dying out. You need to see some stats there bud. You don't have to give a damn in what others think, its taking pride in what you do.

Wow. You just went from something small into extreme. You went from flaming other communities to joking around. See the gap? Perhaps it is because you have been awake for 36 hours, but that's a pretty shitty argument. I moderate on the CA, and about 70% of the post are jokes and everyone has a good time. How many flame post do you see directed anywhere?[/quote]

Maybe it's dying out, maybe it isn't. I'm not going to take the time to research it. It has communities full of pages and pages of abandoned projects, and a finished one every now and then, and a couple of those might be pretty good. So, maybe statistically there are still plenty of people using it, keeping it alive, but at the same time, if it's never being used to finish a game, then that would also imply it's dead.

I do take pride in what I do. I'm a musician and composer, not an RPG Maker. I may write music for peoples' RM games, that doesn't mean that I necesarilly think that game is good. It also doesn't mean I'm ever going to see the finished game either...

Wow. You just went from something small into extreme. You went from flaming other communities to joking around. See the gap? Perhaps it is because you have been awake for 36 hours, but that's a pretty shitty argument. I moderate on the CA, and about 70% of the post are jokes and everyone has a good time. How many flame post do you see directed anywhere?

Yes, but you also didn't notice the quotes around the word "flame". People do that as a subtle way of being sarcastic, but... heh. Well, I see apparently this was another time I was supposed to use the sarcastic tags. [sarcastic][/sarcastic] When will I ever learn?

So maybe at the CA you joke around in a happy, nice manner. That's not the way we do that here. It's like when you're a man, and you're hanging out with a group of your manly friends, you make fun of each other, but you know you're still friends. You're supposed to call each other douche bag. Maybe you're not a man; maybe you'll never understand. Does this sound like a shitty argument? Well, yes, I assume it probably does. The truth is our flames here are never really genuine. And at the same time, it's not like we go to new members, and say "STFU n00b".

Well then you sure as hell started this post out the wrong way didn't you?

I for one don't care if you stay, my job is to keep the forums clean of spam and in order, and while it may seem like I'm not doing my job to you, I can assure you that the entire time I'm here I am, as well as the other mods, and admin.

I've been awake for nearly 36 hours, and as you can tell, I'm in no mood for this crap.

Umm... that was the end of my post, not the start. Get some sleep. You need it. When finally wake up, we can continue this debate. I would hope you aren't at your best because if you were... man... this is going to be easy.

So apparently you misunderstood me, as I misunderstood you. I thought your first statement of that post was directed at me, but instead at Nightwolf, then you said you wanted to discuss this in a pleasant way, which contradicted that, and the fact that you basically said the mods here are horrible, without actually saying it. So, yes I was referring to the beginning of your post. The fact that I have to explain it kind of takes the edge off it... but you get the idea.

I also see that a lot of my arguments, while seeming crappy to you, actually just went over your head. Easy? You have no idea what you're in for.

Staff's job doesn't only extend to cleaning the forums, its keeping respectable members. Here I was, seeing you read this topic and hoping for a decent moderator who would actually see my point and possibly make a few changes for the better. I got a cop from the small town of 'blah' who prefers to eat some dougnuts rather than his job..

So now you know what the staff's job is? Because... before... yes, ok, before you seemed to not quite understand. What? You want me to go around removing these sigs because they hurt your feelings? Grow up, you're fucking 19. And I'm SO sorry you don't like the way I do my "job". Being a moderator on a forum isn't my life. Unlike the way you seem to be, I have a life outside of RPG Maker forums, and the rest of the internet. I have a real job, college, a fiancee. I don't exactly have time to sit here and make absolutely sure these forums are in perfect order. If I did, there wouldn't be a need for any other mods.

Sorry if I am seeming like an asshole here, but I really couldn't give a shit anymore. Don't even attack me with those riduculous arguments and expect me to lie down to that so you can look like the good guy here because I am not known.

I'm glad you're sorry because you are an asshole. Were my arguments before actually ridiculous, or was that just the way you chose to view them? Even with being awake for 36 hours, they were still some valid points, just not too well though out. I hope these arguments are more suited for your taste.

It's not hard to check the trash forum and see just how many posts are deleted in a day. A quick glance at the mod logs shows lots of moderation also. Halo definately is an awesome guy for all the work he does around here.

I have no idea really about the crankeye / hbgames.org rivalry, seeing as I'm with the "rpg maker is a dying thing" guys and have been for over a year now, but if this forum means so little and we suck so much, why do you care? I don't see anybody here being bothered wether or not you RMXP guys hate us.

[edit] longest reading topic --> replying time ever, been a couple of posts in between ;_;

This topic makes me want cry...Just...What is the point of arguing over this stupid shit? You guys have an opinion, so does he.

I AM NOT TAKING A SIDE OTHER THAN MY OWN.

What exactly is either party going to gain from this argument? HAVE YOUR OPINIONS, that's cool, I'm glad you do! But why waste a portion of your already miniscule lifespans to attempt shoving it down someone else's throat? Nightwolf has got it right. He tried to make a silly and irrelevant comment to lighten the mood, even I do that! I've only JUST turned 16, and seeing a ninteen year old, (AND A TEACHER!) acting like this makes me feel sick to my stomach. Do we really feel we have this much time on our hands? Do we REALLY have nothing better to do? I have no life, and yet I STILL feel comfortable saying I'm making better use of it at this point.

I don't want anyone to take offense at what I said, likely because I am a bleeding heart liberal pussy who can't stand to hurt anyone else's feelings, but I just wanted to state my opinion. There is no reason to try and prove yourself to some guy you don't know over the internet. You gain NOTHING, and if you would just let it slide you'll feel way better in the morning, and that's one less guy on your shit list.

Ok. First off I would like to apologize to Halo. I am not doubting his moderating ability and certainly am not calling it into question. I know I wouldn't appreciate it myself. I just don't see how certain things are allowed.

"Taking pride in being a cock who supresses people in his free time?"

No. I am not supressing anyone. I was expressing how the general attitude towards another forum was rather shitty. I wasn't the who said RM was dying. That was a typo. I was saying it wasn't dying by the way.

"We can do whatever the hell we want in our own community. It's not like our members are going over to RMXP and harassing you guys."

You obviously missed the point of my argument. I was saying that he drew a direct line to flaming another forum to joking. There is quite a bit of difference.

"Do I even need to comment on this? What is going to be easy? Pwnin some n00bzors? You seem to see this arguement like a game. If you aren't serious then leave us the hell alone and mind your own business."

No, I was referring to getting my point across. If people are using those kind of arguments against me by only attacking what I say, that is just a bad way to go about things.

"No wonder your goddamn forum is full of assholes. EVERY MEMBER IS IMPORTANT. So they may not be smart, so they may not be nice, so they may not be skilled. Everyone is an important member of the community. You can't just keep the ones you like and treat the rest like shit."

Once again, you missed the point entirely. He said his job was to only clean shit up. I would say that every member has the potiential to be a respectable members. Allowing stuff like this to go on destroys that oppertunatiy, as most (through my education I can say this a fact) will adapt to their surroundings and act as everyone else does. You can check over every board, see the same member and how their behavior on that particular forum has affected the member.

"Here you're totally being an ass to nightwolf for no reason. =/
Nightwolf is 100% right. There doesnt need to be an arguement here. You're creating unnecessary conflict, in someone else's forums, over something that isn't directly effecting you. You act like the concept of "lets just all get along" is a childish one, when in fact it is the most mature concept around. Sadly , it seems to take the youngest one here to realise that. If you think trying to get along with other people is CHILDISH, again, no wonder your forum is full of condescending trash."

No, Night started by being a sarcastic ass to me. I don't know them and have have nothing against them, and once again, you missed my point. I think we should all get along, not hold bitter grudges against an entire forum. Oh yes, the forums I run is full of trash. Whatever you say. You just flamed some of the biggest RM forums out there. Way to Go.

------------------------

"Only 19? I am older than you??? O_o I thought you were some programmer working for some company and stuffs with a growing family. I think I just lost all my respect for your "greater than my own" experience in life... :="

So my age and occupation make you lose my respect? Wouldn't that gain your respect that I am taking care of all this at such a young age? I have always been alot maturer than my age group. I guess you have to take my word for it, but whatever. I don't try to be better than anyone, and seeing me on msn, I use a goofy little avatar to make members more comforatable speeking to me, as I have been told I am intimatidating to talk to. I don't what that. I do think equality among members and forums is important, so i offer my assistance to anyone who needs it.

"And now I am being 100% serious.
Do not flame or insult in any other way HaloOfTheSun. This guy is one of the most active and best mods I have ever seen in my life. He will mod a 2 times greater forum 60 hours without sleep better than you could mod one of a normal size have slept for the last few days about 12 hours. He's capable, smart, talented, funny, interesting has attitude and most important: he is humble, which you obviously are not. Flaming Halo is like flaming me twice as bad. What he says doesn't have to reflect my opinion as well, but flaming him because of this opinion which isn't wrong is a serious insult to him in my eyes."

As I said, I wasn't calling Halo out. He called me out and it rather pissed me off because I only wanted to ask why such behavior is tolerated. He isn't the only one that doesn't sleep you know. Trust me. I am up until at least 5 or 6 every morning moderating at several forums, scripting, helping people, etc.  I didn't mean to flame Halo. He does seem like a very smart person and didn't want to offend him. I am not withdrawing from any of my statements however. I think there is still some justification within them.

"Also I want to say CA is a completely different story than hbgames.org. I remember how we've had problems with a specific guy called "Dart". Vex told me how the guys from CA tried to redeem him even though that was already the IDK 3rd time he made big problems. You can't compare CA and hbgames.org. This is like black and white."

I would never compare the CA and .org. They are 2 different forums with 2 different environments. The CA is more laxed because it is a 3rd the size of .org. Org must be more strick to maintain order.

"And another thing: We know you more than you think, Seph. How many times have I or any other member here redirected somebody to your scripts?! How many times have we posted "I think SephirothSpawn made something like this. Try this URL or this one." And how much have we heard about you?! As I said, don't flame Halo. That like running against a wall. You might not notice the first moment, but it will hurt you later the more."

Once again, I do oplogize to Halo. I just didn't see why I was being attacked first off, when I just wanted to end this matter between this forum and .org, as I seem it is rather childish feud.

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@Halo: I do know you probably took my post at you a direct attack and flame. So now I will do as I do, and debate against what you posted. How you react after seeing my sincere opology and still take into consideration what I said completely affects how I feel in these instances.

"HOLY SHIT YOU'RE ONLY 19 HAHA'

Ok. So my age matters because... I am more mature than most of the people I know.

"So you were talking to Nighwolf, and not me..... well, my point is still valid. I would've been more than glad to discuss this civilly with you, except for the fact it seems you are in all actuallity less than willing to do the same."

No. I told Nightwolf several times to sit this one out (I may have acted poorly Nightwolf when I did this, but still felt as if he was acting like an ass).

"Oh, come on! If you're this great and wonderful mod/admin on so many other forums, you'd know that everything you do is not always noticeable to the community. We don't keep order? I don't see anywhere on the forums where there is something out of control, except maybe this topic."

As I have said, I am sorry for this. As I have said, I just don't see why this sort of behavior is allowed to exist. It only does make your forum appear inferior to members outside that my do the multi-forum thing as I do, and leave right away. You are preventing a lot of talent and members (and potiential members) from bothering to joining.

"I also see that a lot of my arguments, while seeming crappy to you, actually just went over your head. Easy? You have no idea what you're in for."

Nothing went over my head. I understand what you may have considered arguments, where I took them as mindless attacks without knowning my goal here. That was probably influenced by me saying somethings I do regret saying about the staff here. I do opologize to the staff for these remarks, but I still do not see why certain things are allowed that shouldn't happen if you want to actually be civil.

"Maybe it's dying out, maybe it isn't. I'm not going to take the time to research it. It has communities full of pages and pages of abandoned projects, and a finished one every now and then, and a couple of those might be pretty good. So, maybe statistically there are still plenty of people using it, keeping it alive, but at the same time, if it's never being used to finish a game, then that would also imply it's dead.

I do take pride in what I do. I'm a musician and composer, not an RPG Maker. I may write music for peoples' RM games, that doesn't mean that I necesarilly think that game is good. It also doesn't mean I'm ever going to see the finished game either..."

As I said above, I did mean that it isn't dying out (I do believe you didn't notice my lack of n't). There are tons of pages filled with unfinished projects because with anything amatueur and people at mid teen ages as you said, it happens.

"I'm glad you're sorry because you are an asshole. Were my arguments before actually ridiculous, or was that just the way you chose to view them? Even with being awake for 36 hours, they were still some valid points, just not too well though out. I hope these arguments are more suited for your taste."

I really don't care what anyones opinion of me is. If you say I am an asshole, so be it. It's your opinion and I do respect your freedom to think it. No, alot of your arguments were rather unfair, as I was attacked, not debated with. Attacking is actually a bad form of debating which only entertains the febel minded. The educated see right through it.

Your new arguments don't really make me feel any better, but then again, you probably felt attacked as I did, so I will not take them to heart, and hope we can patch this up.

I sincerly do opolgize for attacking you and your position as staff. That was not my goal, but it feels like I am the outsider, trying to show my point against an entire forum. It's not the simplest thing to do. I do hope you see my position on this matter. My only goal was for your staff to see that making a forum against forum thing is just bad for both forums, just as fighting does against people (and from seeing how people react to both of us, respectable people).


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"What exactly is either party going to gain from this argument? HAVE YOUR OPINIONS, that's cool, I'm glad you do! But why waste a portion of your already miniscule lifespans to attempt shoving it down someone else's throat? Nightwolf has got it right. He tried to make a silly and irrelevant comment to lighten the mood, even I do that! I've only JUST turned 16, and seeing a ninteen year old, (AND A TEACHER!) acting like this makes me feel sick to my stomach. Do we really feel we have this much time on our hands? Do we REALLY have nothing better to do? I have no life, and yet I STILL feel comfortable saying I'm making better use of it at this point."

As I said in my above paragraph, my only goal was to end this dispute against the forums, not instigate it. I do respect Bliz's point and if you see, I did agree with him on a few things.

I do know Nightwolf was actually making the right move, but he really had no place in the argument here. I was trying to inform the staff here of how an outsider sees this behaviour. I am sorry Nightwolf for attacking you, but not why I did it. My point still remains valid.

"I don't want anyone to take offense at what I said, likely because I am a bleeding heart liberal pussy who can't stand to hurt anyone else's feelings, but I just wanted to state my opinion. There is no reason to try and prove yourself to some guy you don't know over the internet. You gain NOTHING, and if you would just let it slide you'll feel way better in the morning, and that's one less guy on your shit list."

I have yet to take offence (besides being attacked and reattacking (which I know offened him in return, so I am at fault as well)) to what anyone has said. I do not mind a debate and hold no grudges over people. I want no one on my shit list. Less headaches for me. I give everyone a chance.

Heh, I was coming back to apologize, and it seems you beat me to it. I'm glad we both wanted to put an end to this.

Alright, so it seems nearly everyone here has taken things the wrong way, at least once. The people who actually took part in the "debate" anyway.

I would like to say, that I saw your point from the beginning Sephiroth. I also saw everyone else's point as well. And - well, nevermind, I'll just leave it at that, and you can take it how you will.

So I've been a bit quick to jump to conclusions it seems. I've not been in the best of moods, as some of you know from the topic in the Welcome section, I just found out my mom had been diagnosed with cancer, and had been waiting for the results, so I've been a bit "testy", along with exhausted.

But I won't make excuses, other than we all have to remember this is "Text World", it's fairly easy to misconstrew (sp?) other people's comments. I came back at you the way I did because I suppose the way I was reading your posts sounded like you were attacking me. So I'll take fault in that, and I apologize. I don't, however, see the need to keep them from having those sigs. Perhaps Crankeye or Silverline will handle that matter in one way or another.

Anyway, I'm not in much of a mood for long posts anymore. I'll just apologize again, but also point out I don't completely agree with your initial statements (before the "debate"). I resign from further fighting, and I'll probably be back to lock this topic in a bit, to give other people to add other constructive comments, or to see if you have anything else to add.

Yay, the war is over!

We didn't really accomplish anything here.

You're right, and no matter how long we keep this up, nothing will get accomplished. So there's no sense in fighting about it. I, for one, hate fighting over the internet anyway. I can feel my IQ lowering every time I do.

I think the only solution that will be reasonable to everyone is just to get rid of the sigs (which may have already happened), and to just forget the whole thing. Unless someone has a more reasonable idea...

And finally I come to the chance to post this, according to Halo's post!



As I said, I didn't mean to flame anybody as it wasn't directed as any flaming. It was mere my opinion. So let's close this matter as a matter of misunderstanding. I'd probably had caused less problems if I just e-mailed rmxp-org's staff or something like that, but that wasn't my intention. As I actually don't really care I thought I'd just express my opinion and well, that's already it. As hbgames.org is the biggest RM forum it would be a pity to see it succumb, that's my opinion in other words. I'll remove the sigs then. If it appears anywhere else, you can't blame me for that. I don't have control over what other people do.

And I don't judge you by your age, it's just that I EXPECTED you to be older only because you're married and have a kid. It's not that I came to the conclusion according to your behaviour. I'm, too, pretty young (20) and have heard by many people I would act like 25+ or something. Although some new kids here thought I'd be 15, lmao!

@Nightwolf: It doesn't matter who's idea it originally was. I was supporting it and I am still doing. I'm not gonna abandon him and say "Uh, that was his idea, flame him! I only made the images!". This discussion is my fault as well, most probably even more than his.

True i was just trying to get this locked so no more fights.
And so you guys dont fight anymore, i changed into my normal sig.
NOW STOP IT!

I am glad everyone is on the same page again. Again I opologize for causing such trouble amongst everyone.

I am sorry to hear about your mom Halo. I sincerly hope for the best for her and you. I won't say much more so I don't upset you. I know how it is.

But I do think we did acoomplish something here. I saw your view and I hope you saw mine. I feel I have made more of a connection with these forums and may stick around.

With that, I take my leave of this topic. (Damn, there's a lot of text in this topic  )