Official English version of RPG Maker 2003?!

Petition for Signatures
Official Topic

This suggestion was thrown into the table and so we have to ask, if we were to release RPG Maker 2003 in English would you buy it?
Vote and post your suggestions here~

Just a note, take the EULA into consideration. This means you guys shouldn't use patches/plug-ins/external programs if you want to use RPG Maker.

Well, what can I say? There's a possibilty that Degica/EB! will look into creating an official English version of RM2K3 if there's enough demand for it. What do you all think? Should we embrace this momentous occasion that would allow us to use 2K3 legally? Would you pay for such a thing? Let your voices be heard!

And sign the damn petition! <3

Also, please spread the word around to any and all sites you frequent where people use the program. The more people made aware, the better!

That's great an all, but who would actually buy and use it apart from a few fanatics?

Me for one.

Since I was the one who actually asked a Degica staff member about it and they were nice enough to throw it on the table. Seems they do care about the fans and their products.

We have Ace now, and anyone who doesn't like Ace or VX can use XP.
So whats the point?

So glad you asked~

It helps EB! and Degica to be inspired to make more of an effort to listen to the fans.
You no longer have to live in shame knowing you've got a pirated copy.
You will legally own it.
It also makes a neat collection item for nostalgia's sake.
You can legally sell a 2k3 game.
You will gain legal usage of the RTP that came with it so that if you want to use it in other RM engines, you can.
You'll be supporting the people who support your hobby - it's almost like you'll be supporting your hobby yourself.
You will no longer be one of the dregs of society who pulls down the rest of your hobby-kin.

Are those enough reasons? Or would you like more?


This really is a big deal, though. How many other companies would take a fan's suggestion and run with it when it comes to an older program? Wanna be part of RM history? Vote yes~

This really is a big deal, though. How many other companies would take a fan's suggestion and run with it when it comes to an older program? Wanna be part of RM history? Vote yes~

I'm all for it and I support them, I just don't think it'll sell very much

So glad you asked~

It helps EB! and Degica to be inspired to make more of an effort to listen to the fans.
You no longer have to live in shame knowing you've got a pirated copy.
You will legally own it.
It also makes a neat collection item for nostalgia's sake.
You can legally sell a 2k3 game.
You will gain legal usage of the RTP that came with it so that if you want to use it in other RM engines, you can.
You'll be supporting the people who support your hobby - it's almost like you'll be supporting your hobby yourself.
You will no longer be one of the dregs of society who pulls down the rest of your hobby-kin.

Are those enough reasons? Or would you like more?


This really is a big deal, though. How many other companies would take a fan's suggestion and run with it when it comes to an older program? Wanna be part of RM history? Vote yes~

I still don't get how it's such a bad thing if someone doesn't sign the petition.  I really do not believe that many are going to buy this (that's pretty generous of me considering I was originally going to say "i don't believe anyone is going to buy this" but I knew I'd hear the "I would" reply and two or three, maybe 4 people doesn't count) and most just want an excuse for having their usual translated version. 

I make it a point to only sign petitions with causes that I believe in but this I just can't support.  I enjoy my childhood usage of RPG Maker 2000 but 2003...not so much.

If someone can convince me otherwise, I will probably just forget about this but people are going to have to give me a reason other than "you'd be an asshole" or "extremely unpopular" to get me to care about that cause because I'm way past the age that I cared about petty little things like that.

Not being able to use patches would kind of suck, seeing how necessary some of those are to make RM2k3 enjoyable. It's also not a very productive restriction, since the only way it could financially benefit the company is if they planned to later release new features for RM2k3, which seems unlikely.

If they were to remove that restriction from the EULA, then I would buy it, but as it is I can live without legally owning RM2k3; I haven't used it for years.

If someone can convince me otherwise, I will probably just forget about this but people are going to have to give me a reason other than "you'd be an asshole" or "extremely unpopular" to get me to care about that cause because I'm way past the age that I cared about petty little things like that.

I respect that.

Quite frankly I don't care about whether or not 2K3 is translated into English (officially), if the petition didn't ask me to give my name and address I'd have no problem signing it, as I don't care and wouldn't mind signing just for the sake of the people who would like me to.

But I'm not bothered enough by this that I'd put my full name and address on a petition for it.

You don't have to sign the petition. You could just vote in the poll on the official site. As to other reasons that you might do this for? Well, here's some:
A collectors addition? There's talk about boxing~
Supporting the community?
Deepening the relationship between Degica and RM fans?
Legal acces to the RTP and REFMAP materials? (REFMAP only allows the use of the materials in Legal makers.)
Making your mark in RM history?
Showing EB that you do care about their products, that you do want them to continue making more, that they can listen to what you have to say!
Selling 2k3 games!
Marketable as a budget alternative to the new makers~

There's also been talk about fixing a few of the issues with it - agility and OS compatibility, for example.

Not being able to use patches would kind of suck, seeing how necessary some of those are to make RM2k3 enjoyable. It's also not a very productive restriction, since the only way it could financially benefit the company is if they planned to later release new features for RM2k3, which seems unlikely.

^This.

You don't have to sign the petition. You could just vote in the poll on the official site. As to other reasons that you might do this for? Well, here's some:
A collectors addition? There's talk about boxing~
Supporting the community?
Deepening the relationship between Degica and RM fans?
Legal acces to the RTP and REFMAP materials? (REFMAP only allows the use of the materials in Legal makers.)
Making your mark in RM history?
Showing EB that you do care about their products, that you do want them to continue making more, that they can listen to what you have to say!
Selling 2k3 games!
Marketable as a budget alternative to the new makers~

There's also been talk about fixing a few of the issues with it - agility and OS compatibility, for example.

I still just don't see the point.  I never cared for the rtp nor do I support selling of a 2k3 game.  I contribute enough to the community with graphics and a program that I developed and some scripts for ace.  I show eb and degica support by buying a 90 dollar. Program.  Some of your points are okay for maybe a casual user but for me i just dont want to give people more of an excuse to try to sell their crap game that had no effort put into it.  Maybe if lysander came back and finished a blurred line and lino g came.back and finished destinys call, i would give more support.pprogram.  I don't see

Not being able to use patches would kind of suck, seeing how necessary some of those are to make RM2k3 enjoyable. It's also not a very productive restriction, since the only way it could financially benefit the company is if they planned to later release new features for RM2k3, which seems unlikely.

^This.

As long as you didn't try to sell the game they wouldn't care. And they're still tossing up about patches that only affect the EXE as opposed to those that actually require hacking the program.

I have a reason not to vote:
We have Ace.

I loved 2k3, really, but as of today and the things that are possible to do with makers that can use ruby-scripts, it is just not worth buying an old maker which can't even do half of the things the makers we can use today can do.

And about commercial games:
I would never, NEVER pay more than five dollars for a maker-game, and i would only buy one if it is awesome, not just good, it has to be really awesome. Even if it was that i would think twice... no, three times about buying it.
The 2k3 is not suitable to make a Game that would be worth buying, and trust me, i know how much was possible with it, but as i said, it fails against ruby.

You're assuming people will make commercial games with it; that's not true. The best RPG Maker games I've ever played were made on 2k/2k3. The limitations prevented idiots from making throwaway "projects" and ensured a bar of quality (no matter how tiny) was set on all games.

This is off-topic but I also think commercial maker games are overpriced in general. Lots of apps and games of higher quality are available for a dollar or less; I don't care about spending money but in hindsight it's quite ridiculous how much is charged e.g for Aveyond.

Just as long as this "OS" compatibility that comes with a retail version of 2k3 include full support of Windows vista, 7 and up I'll support this.  Not too big of a fan of the flickering fullscreen.  Also it would be nice if they boosted the maximum of stats so that the modified 2k3 programs were not needed.  So far the offers on the table seem too minimal to me.  The only thing I miss about 2k3 was the 16x16 limitations because to me it was easier to sprite tilesets and characters and make them look good when you were limited to 16x16. 

This is the only way I will support this.  Also Skanker, despite what you may think, people WILL try to make commercial games with it.  It's just a matter of fact.  If the ability to do so is there, it will happen.  Also, I've made plenty of throwaway projects...the limitations of the program never prevented that lol.  I could probably find a whole directory of games that never made it on the internet somewhere by numerous users XD

This is the only way I will support this.  Also Skanker, despite what you may think, people WILL try to make commercial games with it.  It's just a matter of fact.

No, I really don't see it happening. If someone releases a commercial game within two years after this release I'll eat your toenails.

just like some of here say.
it already 2012 and vx ace is released means that no one will buy 2003 version.
and it use old pixel art than current HD art and the vx ace had everything than 2003 all of the feature is now cool.
look at this way, would someone will buy vx ace right now or they will still buy 2003.
even if it does sell they make it free since it now old. and no one able to use it, people will buy the newest version of rpg maker than old, since  it more powerful than the previous version.
even the petition does have too many sign but it enterbrain decision to make or not to make 2003 version.
how about petition the never released console version instead. since i'm very likely to sign that petition, since i have a 3ds system in my hand and i want rpg maker ds to released in the us.

This is the only way I will support this.  Also Skanker, despite what you may think, people WILL try to make commercial games with it.  It's just a matter of fact.

No, I really don't see it happening. If someone releases a commercial game within two years after this release I'll eat your toenails.

Releasing and trying to make one are two completely different things.  Either way, look at all the commercial games that people tried to make with rpg maker xp and the ones that were actually released.  As soon as people had the opportunity, it happened.  You can't factor the minority out of the picture.

Releasing an official version of 2003 in English would be foolish financially and...well just foolish, especially if they will not allow hacks/mods for the official release. Also we have Cherry creating a script system at the moment which will allow people to create  scripts in C/C++, similar to XP/VXA with Ruby. If Enterbrain can somehow beat that, then I would be interested in an english release.

Releasing an official version of 2003 in English would be foolish financially and...well just foolish, especially if they will not allow hacks/mods for the official release. Also we have Cherry creating a script system at the moment which will allow people to create  scripts in C/C++, similar to XP/VXA with Ruby. If Enterbrain can somehow beat that, then I would be interested in an english release.

I feel those demands are actually kind of ridiculous to expect. Maybe increasing stats to allow the engine to match that of some of these plugins but I don't think it would be foolish if they expected people to not modify the program. 

I don't know of too many programs outside of open source software that allow for the public to create modifications.  In fact, I can't think of one off the top of my head.  A lot of the reason that most dont allow this in the first place is because they don't want people to go the next step and remove any sort of security they may use for entering serial keys etc.  Allowing people to modify the program puts them in a tough spot because then they rely on people to follow the honor system.  Of course, piracy wont be prevented and not everyone will be honest but as long as they say "no modifying the program," they have a safety net.

Now I have done some thinking and have come up with a short list of things that I would want if anyone wanted me to support this title.

• Increase stats to amounts matching or exceeding some of the popular modified versions
• better support for windows vista/7 to remove flickering during fullscreen mode
• text boxes to have proper fitting text to allow for a better visual of what you are typing into the
  text box (playtesting to see if the text will fit is extremely lame)
• Sample games that are of higher quality than Don Miguel's original RPG Maker 2000 sample game (dear lord I nearly wanted to facepalm before I knew what a facepalm was)
• the cost of 2k3 must not exceed 15 dollars due to age and limitations

This is really all that I expect.  I would actually buy it then.  I just simply wont buy it if the price is over 15 bucks simply because I wouldn't use the software much, if at all.  If my list's expectations were met, I would buy it and use it here and there maybe but otherwise no.  As such, I wont sign anything until I hear that those conditions are met. 

Let's look at it like this; Going out and asking people to sign a petition saying that they will buy a program even if they personally will not buy the program just to be a "good sport" to the community is fairly harmful to the company.  Say 20,000 people sign that and only 10,000 people actually buy it because the other 10,000 people already have what they wanted and only signed it to be a "good sport."  This could be a loss of profits for the company based on their expected sales figures. 

I personally wouldn't buy it to use the RTP or anything like that, especially since if I wanted licensed rpg maker 2003 compatible resources, I could find higher quality resources on the internet for free by people who provided their resources for free to anyone who wants to use them.

I'll keep checking the thread, though.  If I start to see things that I like being added to the list of things that would be worked on for an official english release, I may sign my name on there because I really would buy it then and I suggest each of you do the same as long as you are really going to buy it.

Releasing an official version of 2003 in English would be foolish financially and...well just foolish, especially if they will not allow hacks/mods for the official release. Also we have Cherry creating a script system at the moment which will allow people to create  scripts in C/C++, similar to XP/VXA with Ruby. If Enterbrain can somehow beat that, then I would be interested in an english release.

I feel those demands are actually kind of ridiculous to expect. Maybe increasing stats to allow the engine to match that of some of these plugins but I don't think it would be foolish if they expected people to not modify the program. 

Not a demand as such, since I know EB will not go to that extent to make the engine more efficient. It was more of my reasoning as to why releasing an official version of 2003 would be financially stupid.

Releasing an official version of 2003 in English would be foolish financially and...well just foolish, especially if they will not allow hacks/mods for the official release. Also we have Cherry creating a script system at the moment which will allow people to create  scripts in C/C++, similar to XP/VXA with Ruby. If Enterbrain can somehow beat that, then I would be interested in an english release.

I feel those demands are actually kind of ridiculous to expect. Maybe increasing stats to allow the engine to match that of some of these plugins but I don't think it would be foolish if they expected people to not modify the program. 

Not a demand as such, since I know EB will not got to that extent to make the engine more efficient. It was more of my reasoning as to why releasing an official version of 2003 would be financially stupid.

Releasing 2003 would be financially stupid regardless.  Looking at the petition, only 68 of 1000 signatures are on there...looking for only 1000 signatures seems like a waste of a petition and only 68 signatures says to me that you could probably double or triple that, MAYBE quadruple it to get the amount of people who would actually buy the software if they knew about it and you could probably call it a waste of time and money depending on who they have working on it, how many are working on it and how they plan to release the software.  A couple thousand dollars isn't enough profit for a company to bother with this.

True dat.

not happening sorry

enterbrain personally told me

instead of petition on 2003 version try to petition the console version instead (ex. rpg maker DS)

instead of petition on 2003 version try to petition the console version instead (ex. rpg maker DS)

Why?  The console versions thusfar have really been pretty bad.  I've got a copy of the one for PSX and while it has it's charm, it really isn't too great.

I agree with Jomar.

I would like the DS version simply because I'm a console person and would rather make an RPG that I can play anywhere.
It would also benefit me because I've got nothing to do while I'm on the hour long train ride to school on the weekdays (plus hour long back), so I could be working on it at that time.

I agree with Jomar.

I would like the DS version simply because I'm a console person and would rather make an RPG that I can play anywhere.
It would also benefit me because I've got nothing to do while I'm on the hour long train ride to school on the weekdays (plus hour long back), so I could be working on it at that time.

lol well with how terrible they have always been on consoles, good luck getting people to support that.  I'd support it if only I had a DS but it would be only to see how much of a trainwreck it is.

The DS version is respectably good, it's just hampered by the limited graphics generator and amount of resources. Tsukuru + added some great polish to the mapping engine and allows you for even greater compatibility. I posted a review or something like that of it on these forums when it was released. Getting that version localized would financially and just generally make more sense.

Also, referring to earlier posts, I don't think it counts if people only tried to make commercial games. It only counts if they're actually released.

It's not just a petition for my own purposes. I was told by a Degica rep straight up that if the 1000 sigs are raised, they will do this.

They've even set the price at $20. Because a fan asked.

Degica is the current publishers. The past ones were Protexus, and they were the ones that were around when 2k3 was released and only catered to the Japanese fans. Degica took over and it's thanks to them that we've had English releases. They saw that there was an English fanbase and decided to reach out to it. They've released free graphics and scripts, are all about the fans. The main reason they can't release a translation for free is because that's like them saying that the source code is also free and that would ruin them.

They don't mind if people use patches - they're only doing this because someone finally got the balls to ask. And why did I do so? Because I love the system and would like to have a licensed version. No other reason than that.

They don't mind if people use patches - they're only doing this because someone finally got the balls to ask. And why did I do so? Because I love the system and would like to have a licensed version. No other reason than that.

Ummm....I seem to recall the main post on the forums saying that mods/patches weren't allowed.  Now the first post has been significantly updated and it's now saying this (which pretty much still goes along with what I said considering he's making a note about the EULA).

Just a note, take the EULA into consideration. This means you guys shouldn't use patches/plug-ins/external programs if you want to use RPG Maker. Not sure about the RPG_RT.exe though since I know it's not illegal to change the icon *hint hint, wink wink*

20 bucks is still a little out of my price range not because I couldn't afford it but because that is how much I would spend on a used game at a game store and this would be treated like one simply because I don't have the drive to work with this software anymore for anything outside of making a random map here and there and I can do that with xp or vx ace.  Any of the art assets I may want from 2k3 can be resized and imported to one of the newer makers if I choose to use them.  I'm not going to sign a petition for a product unless I plan on buying it because doing otherwise for a few people would be dishonest.  I'm a pretty blunt and honest person with my opinions so sorry if it seems harsh but that's how it is. 

You still only have 81 people signing it.  You may want to find other places to post this stuff.  Try looking for Stifu and Don Miguel's forum.  Last I checked, they were still pretty active.  Also, RPG2kNET has a temporary forum up that gets views now and then as they struggle to keep the community up and running for nostalgia sake and I'm sure word of a legal English 2k3 would get their interest. 

I will think long and hard on this and maybe I'll sign it but I may want to ask a Degica rep some questions personally to see if it is worth it to me.  If I want nostalgia, I have my Don Miguel translation of 2k on my external harddrive and his crappy sample game.

Oh and if it does get a legal English translation, I just found a bunch of tilesets for 2k/2k3 that I will share since most of the websites that focused on RPG Maker around that time have since either dropped their resources, closed down or all the stuff has gotten burried in time by xp/vx stuff lol

A FAQ that I was asked to whip up on another site. I may as well post it here too.

FAQ
Why now? Why not 10 years ago?
The simple answer? Because the community itself shot down any attempts EB tried at legalizing the product. After XP's release no one bothered asking for it.
The complete answer? Degica only took over the publishing of EB! products at the advent of XP. Up until that time Protexus was the publisher and they weren't really concerned with the English community. When Degica took over, they reached out to the Western community. It's thanks to them (and Agetec - the publishers of the console RMs who showed EB! that there was a market for RM product here) that we have any English makers at all. They also hadn't thought that it would be appreciated, so until a fan actually asked about it...
When they were asked they said, sure, let's see how much demand there is and if there's enough we'll do that.

Is it worth it for them to do this? Aren't they just wasting money that could be better spent on other things?
To quote Touchfuzzy, Admin of the official RM site:

I'm going to use variables because I have no idea exact costs. Let's say we have Project 1 and Project 2.

Project 1 costs x to produce, and brings in 10x

Project 2 costs 2x to produce, and brings in 10x

If we do just Project 1 we make 9x, if we do just Project 2 we make 8x. If we did BOTH projects, we could make 17x.

Hence why if something sounds like we will make x's we will find the money to do it. Also, translating 2k3 if it does work out, could make a good deal of money as it has low costs comparatively to bring over, that could be used to FUND other projects.

In other words, the money they make back on this can be used to make other projects, like more resources for the newer makers. How is it a waste of their time to hire a few translators to make an English version of a game that might net them some profit back from a product they missed out on thanks to a shoddy publisher?

Why should we pay for something we already have?
There are two main reasons and they both boil down to ethics.
The first is that it's illegal to use the engine. Okay, get the laughter out of your system. I'll wait.

Seriously though, supporting the system that has been loved and used so much over the years is a great thing. It makes you feel better, for one, and encourages Degica to listen to the fans about what they want, for two. Me, I like the idea of owning RM2K3. I like the thought that I've given back to the people who had such a large part of my youth. I remember the first time I even found out there was an RPG Maker and how awesome it was, thinking that I'd be able to make my own game, just like the ones I'd played in my childhood. I love the idea of giving something back for that.

Another reason is the RTP. Currently, unless you bought the Japanese version, using the RTP in any engine is illegal. Remember that RTP is sounds as well as graphics. The legal usage of a selection of music and sound effects... do I need to quote how much it costs to 'buy' music to use that flows and fits together? Hundreds, if not thousands of dollars. Seriously.

Owning the program. In English. Legally. This means, barring any rips or other illegal content, you may sell your game.

Xp/VX/VXA are better! Also, do 2k instead!
That's not a question, but I'll respond anyway. Yes, they're better in a lot of ways, but for those looking to push themselves when it comes to eventing, for those who are new to the programs, for those who like old school RPG charm? 2k3 is a better bet.
2k... well, as much as I love 2k, 2k3 offers something that NONE of the other makers have. A default side-view battle system. Also, better eventing.

How much will this cost? They should add extra stuff!
I put these two together because they relate. Firstly, they've said right out that the cost would be set at $20. Not too bad, eh? This is a program in English and the RTP for use in any other engine. Neato~

Adding extra stuff would just drive up the price and make things harder on their end. A translation, maybe a bug fix for the agility issue... That's what they're offering. They aren't going to recode a whole new engine, they aren't going to add scripting features or higher resolution or redo the graphical side of the RTp or add self switches (;. because doing so would take away from their other projects and drive up the price.

But what about patches and things like Cherry's support programs? Aren't they illegal?
Yes, of course they are. To make the patches they had to mess with the source code of the game and that is against the EULA. That said, it's like using rips. It's illegal, but as long as you're not trying to sell the game and waving big red flags, Degica isn't likely to be bothered prosecuting you for it. I mean, how many prosecutions have there been with the pirated version? Or even with VX games that use the Tile Swap patch? I can think of two, perhaps, and those were really popular and well-known outside of the community.
It's like editing rom files. The companies won't go out of their way to police it unless someone throws up a flare of some sort (That one Chrono Trigger fangame comes to mind.)

Is this official or are you just trying to gather support for a cause that has no chance of occurring?
This is official. If 1000 signatures are raised, Degica will do this. Why? Because a fan asked. How awesome is that?

Any other questions? Just ask.

Also? This.

Thanks to Iddalai for making it.

logical. fallicies. everywhere.

logical. fallicies. everywhere.

QFT

Seriously, I understand your interest in this...but not everyone sees this the way you do and the majority of people in the RPG Maker community do not have a copy of rpgmaker 2k/2k3 on their computers anymore and if they do, it's more than likely sitting in a zip folder in the far reaches of their harddrives and long forgotten.

Again, the RTP is HARDLY anything to be excited about.  There are much higher quality resources out there like the following:



Music is also a much easier resource to find on the internet and there are free royalty-free music websites popping up here and there as well as kind individuals who take the time to create music that suit your needs (a couple of which post on these forums).

$20 dollars isn't much but when you think about it, the big thing is "will I ever use this?"  Sorry, I'm not going to pay $20 dollars for something I will never use just so that less than 1000 people can buy this just like I won't sign the petition unless I plan on buying it.  If I'm going to buy it, there has to be a better reason than "it will support community" because when it comes to cash, I've been gettin' smoked. Lendin' out my money now im broke.

Seriously, though, jokes aside, I wont buy it unless they significantly improve on the program to make patches useless.

Also, you are full of crap.  Were you even ever in the community when Don Miguel was getting into legal trouble with them?  People were telling them flat out "release an english version and we will buy it!"  They asked for an English version many times.  You can only ask the same question so many times before you eventually give up, though.  It just so happens that they finally have a company that takes notice of the interest and sadly it's too little too late.

Don't be mad if nobody supports this but I do hope you get all of your signatures from people who will actually buy the program and not someone who just signed it so they don't have to hear you repeat the same thing over and over in a more long winded way each time...and frankly, it's annoying me more than it is helping me "see the light."

And for the love of god, drop the "sell your game" crap cuz you're only putting bad ideas in people's heads.  I can imagine that there will be some games that come from it that would be awesome and worth some money (IDGAF if there are tons of good games that are free, don't buy it if you don't like it) but the amazing heaps of CRAP that come out of first time users is astonishing and just putting that idea in their head that they can sell said CRAP is just bad business.  BAAAAAAAD BUSINESSSSSSSS.

Replying from the top~

If people don't want to buy or sign, this isn't for them. It's for those who still use or used a lot of 2k3. Or, hell, even those who want it for whatever reasons they want it for.

Those are mack tiles. Mack is legal only in legal makers. Pretty sure that's somewhere in his terms of use. Besides RTP is more than just chipsets. There's charasets, battle animations, sounds, battler sprites, parallaxes and battle backgrounds too.

Music that goes well together? There's more than 20 tracks in the RTP, but I get it, you're not impressed by it. Fine.

If you wouldn't buy, you wouldn't buy. We get it.

And yes, thank you, I was a lurker in the community since '98 and actually joined some communities around the 2000 mark. They asked Protexus for an English version. Degica isn't Protexus.

If you wouldn't buy, you wouldn't buy. We get it.

Selling a game is a possibility. People do it. Does it go over well? Not usually, no. Does this mean it's gonna stop people from doing it if they're determined enough? No. I'm sure I'm not the only one who would have shelled out a bit of cash for a full version of some RM games that were as cool as Wilfred the Hero or The Way or Hero's Realm.

Those are mack tiles. Mack is legal only in legal makers. Pretty sure that's somewhere in his terms of use. Besides RTP is more than just chipsets. There's charasets, battle animations, sounds, battler sprites, parallaxes and battle backgrounds too.

It was used as an example.  My point is the way you are posting, it just seems like you are trying to really convince us and now you act as if you aren't.  If none of that was your intentions, sorry, but it is just the way it looks.  You also managed to overlook a few things that was stated and I highly suggest if you wish to convince people to sign your petition you fully read people's posts because there were a few key things that I said that you seem to have overlooked (as in I know that it was two different companies doing the publishing but you can only ask for something for so long before giving up).  I've thought about it today and decided I will sign it but I don't hold high hopes of it reaching 1000 and I don't hold high hopes that Degica will translate it.  I also do it for purely selfish reasons as I'm trying to find something that my Girlfriend's son and I can do together.

Pretty sure that's somewhere in his terms of use.

Proof, please.

They don't mind if people use patches - they're only doing this because someone finally got the balls to ask. And why did I do so? Because I love the system and would like to have a licensed version. No other reason than that.

It irks me that you continually keep claiming this, and not even realize your own hypocrisy. First, unless people read every single post, they're going to see this one post and assume the patches are okay and legal. No, it's not okay, nor is it legal. If it was, you could apply the patches and plugs with your legal RM2K3 copy and still sell your RM2K3 game (however a remote chance it may be).

So let's clear it up in one post. The very fact that by using these patches and plugs goes against the EULA means it's not legal. I'm sure they care about you breaking the EULA and applying illegal patches about as much as they care that you are using a pirated copy. It's very hypocritical to play a guilt trip on somebody for using a pirated copy of RM2K3 and then tell them it's okay to perform some other illegal activity.

And not to be offensive, but who are you to say what another company cares about, or even what actions they might take against illegal use of their product? Promote the legal sale of RM2K3 if you must, and why you feel it's a good idea, but quit telling people it's okay to go against the EULA.

Now that I'm done raging over this, I'll post the same concerns I've asked elsewhere here, namely how this will effect communities who fail to prevent continued use of the pirated RM2K3:

The only concern I'd have is this. Aside from bug fixes, which may or may not happen, what about those who choose not to buy a legal copy of this but still use their pirated versions? Will the communities begin enforcing piracy regulations and have these people banned? If so, then you risk losing a large chunk of your members who will scramble to go elsewhere? And if not, then how is it fair if somebody spends their $20 to make right with EB and Degica for a legal copy, and yet there is no reprimand for everybody else who continues to use a pirated version?

You can sell a game legally on this? Perhaps, but no more so than you can on other makers. Plus, if you opt to include the patches and plugs that were made available by third parties (DynRPG, for example), you break the EULA and can no longer legally sell a game using this editor.

You can legally own the RTP? If you are selling a game, great, except the resources are so out-dated and would clash with newer resources. But this all goes back to the community again. First, anybody who currently makes a game with RM2K or 2K3 is already illegally using the resources. Not to mention that these resources (at least the audio) is very commonly used in RMXP and VX/Ace already. While illegal, it's allowed as long as you don't sell the game. So again, will the community risk banning members who use these resources illegally (whether or not the game is commercial) and lose a chunk of their membership base, or will they continue to turn a blind eye to what's going on, which in itself would make selling a legal copy of RM2K3 worthless to the one guy who wants to do what is right?

If I'm not selling my game, why should I buy a legal copy if the community is okay with everybody else's pirated version?

My point in this is for it to really work, for this thing to really take off, the communities will have to be on board with the idea and enforce rules against requesting and using pirated copies of RM2K3. Only then will this drive the necessity for RM2K3 users to go out and purchase a legal copy.

But a large number of the communities probably won't enforce this because they fear they will lose a major portion of their membership chain, and a community needs its members to survive. Unfortunately, a large portion of the membership in several communities already have and use illegal copies of RM2K3, and won't be buying a legal copy.

And that's the other thing that worries me. Our communities have a pretty decent thing going on with Degica now, that I'd hate to ruin the relationship over a disagreement. The world has come to accept that communities allow use of RM2K3 resources and games, and EB has decided to no longer try to prosecute its use. But if the communities aren't willing to support a legal copy of this by enforcing piracy laws in fear of losing their members, how does that support Degica? Will this create an even greater mess for future products? Is Degica okay with continued use of pirated material when there is a legal copy that can be purchased?

They don't mind if people use patches - they're only doing this because someone finally got the balls to ask. And why did I do so? Because I love the system and would like to have a licensed version. No other reason than that.

It irks me that you continually keep claiming this, and not even realize your own hypocrisy. First, unless people read every single post, they're going to see this one post and assume the patches are okay and legal. No, it's not okay, nor is it legal. If it was, you could apply the patches and plugs with your legal RM2K3 copy and still sell your RM2K3 game (however a remote chance it may be).

So let's clear it up in one post. The very fact that by using these patches and plugs goes against the EULA means it's not legal. I'm sure they care about you breaking the EULA and applying illegal patches about as much as they care that you are using a pirated copy. It's very hypocritical to play a guilt trip on somebody for using a pirated copy of RM2K3 and then tell them it's okay to perform some other illegal activity.

And not to be offensive, but who are you to say what another company cares about, or even what actions they might take against illegal use of their product? Promote the legal sale of RM2K3 if you must, and why you feel it's a good idea, but quit telling people it's okay to go against the EULA.

Now that I'm done raging over this, I'll post the same concerns I've asked elsewhere here, namely how this will effect communities who fail to prevent continued use of the pirated RM2K3:

The only concern I'd have is this. Aside from bug fixes, which may or may not happen, what about those who choose not to buy a legal copy of this but still use their pirated versions? Will the communities begin enforcing piracy regulations and have these people banned? If so, then you risk losing a large chunk of your members who will scramble to go elsewhere? And if not, then how is it fair if somebody spends their $20 to make right with EB and Degica for a legal copy, and yet there is no reprimand for everybody else who continues to use a pirated version?

You can sell a game legally on this? Perhaps, but no more so than you can on other makers. Plus, if you opt to include the patches and plugs that were made available by third parties (DynRPG, for example), you break the EULA and can no longer legally sell a game using this editor.

You can legally own the RTP? If you are selling a game, great, except the resources are so out-dated and would clash with newer resources. But this all goes back to the community again. First, anybody who currently makes a game with RM2K or 2K3 is already illegally using the resources. Not to mention that these resources (at least the audio) is very commonly used in RMXP and VX/Ace already. While illegal, it's allowed as long as you don't sell the game. So again, will the community risk banning members who use these resources illegally (whether or not the game is commercial) and lose a chunk of their membership base, or will they continue to turn a blind eye to what's going on, which in itself would make selling a legal copy of RM2K3 worthless to the one guy who wants to do what is right?

If I'm not selling my game, why should I buy a legal copy if the community is okay with everybody else's pirated version?

My point in this is for it to really work, for this thing to really take off, the communities will have to be on board with the idea and enforce rules against requesting and using pirated copies of RM2K3. Only then will this drive the necessity for RM2K3 users to go out and purchase a legal copy.

But a large number of the communities probably won't enforce this because they fear they will lose a major portion of their membership chain, and a community needs its members to survive. Unfortunately, a large portion of the membership in several communities already have and use illegal copies of RM2K3, and won't be buying a legal copy.

And that's the other thing that worries me. Our communities have a pretty decent thing going on with Degica now, that I'd hate to ruin the relationship over a disagreement. The world has come to accept that communities allow use of RM2K3 resources and games, and EB has decided to no longer try to prosecute its use. But if the communities aren't willing to support a legal copy of this by enforcing piracy laws in fear of losing their members, how does that support Degica? Will this create an even greater mess for future products? Is Degica okay with continued use of pirated material when there is a legal copy that can be purchased?

You are right about some points and wrong about others.  Communities aren't responsible for the legality of the program used but if something is blatantly illegal (boss stats go over the maximum, there are features added that aren't supposed to be in there through scripting support addons, for the sake of example) then the community has the right to decide whether the showcasing of that project will endorse the use of illegal mods or illegal software and if they feel it does, they have the choice to remove it and warn the user that support of illegal software/modifications is prohibited and go from there.  It is Enterbrain/Degica's responsibility to track down/limit the amount of piracy that happens. 

The part that I find most amusing about things like this is community stigmas about piracy.  No matter what community you go to, everyone seems to say "PIRACY IS BAD AND I BUY EVERYTHING THAT I OWN" and how disgusting wreches of society people are if they pirate things when I can guarantee you that at least half of the people if not more are using some form of illegal software, games (Roms and emulators included), music or even their operating system.  This form of hypocrisy is ridiculous and should be avoided by simply keeping silent and say "no" to discussions of how to acquire things or the use of the acquired subject.

...Of course that's me going off into a random subject that only mildly fits into one of the statements of the original poster.  I'm going to stop here before I go into some crazy rant.

Fair enough. While I've seen some communities say that if they can tell you're using a pirated copy of say Ace then they'll ban you, I've yet to see them provide proof they can identify if such is pirated or legit. Whether or not they can tell the pirated version of RM2K3 from the legal one (assuming we get a legal one and there is a difference between the two) remains to be seen.

I have, however, seen people banned at some sites for asking for illegal downloads of the VX and VX Ace makers; but when others ask for an illegal download to RM2K or RM2K3, they're told to search for it on google since the community can't provide them with that, the topic is closed, and the person who requested this is not banned. I always assumed that the reason behind this might be because there is no way to ask for a legal version of RM2K or 2K3 at this time, but I suppose once a legal copy of RM2K3 is available (if it ever gets the green light) communities will crack down a bit harder on people asking for the illegal copies.

Fair enough. While I've seen some communities say that if they can tell you're using a pirated copy of say Ace then they'll ban you, I've yet to see them provide proof they can identify if such is pirated or legit. Whether or not they can tell the pirated version of RM2K3 from the legal one (assuming we get a legal one and there is a difference between the two) remains to be seen.

I have, however, seen people banned at some sites for asking for illegal downloads of the VX and VX Ace makers; but when others ask for an illegal download to RM2K or RM2K3, they're told to search for it on google since the community can't provide them with that, the topic is closed, and the person who requested this is not banned. I always assumed that the reason behind this might be because there is no way to ask for a legal version of RM2K or 2K3 at this time, but who knows? Time will tell, when and if this gets the green light.

It just depends on the community really.  Most people say to google things because the original poster of the topic is seen as "lazy" if they don't know where to get it (when in actuality, it is kind of hard to find a download of rpg maker 2000/2003 if people don't know what they are looking for exactly).  A lot of times it really is a laziness issue but sometimes it's not really all that. 

Most communities will ban users only if they commit an offense more than once, simply removing links and closing topics and warning the user if they post about pirated software.  This is a way to encourage positive community contributions as well as show that they follow the rules because a website can be shut down if they are seen to have illegal download links, usually by the server operators after receiving cease and desist warnings from the publishers of the content.  None of these actions are done to support legal software but rather a way to support their selves and keep themselves safe from retribution (most of the time).

Considering the nature of the RPG Maker community, laws and rules have been obscured in some cases.  Some forums will not allow the discussion of RPG Makers prior to XP and the ever popular Postality Knights versions are also considered "prohibited" due to their illegal nature but others support the use of 95+, 2k and 2k3 and just prohibit discussion of the Postality Knights version and when it came to forums like RPG Crisis, they just really didn't care much at all, allowing the posters of content be the judge of what their content is used with.

All that is at least the main reason for most of what you see but there are some occasions where people just wholely support Degica (or however you spell their name) and Enterbrain and that is cool I guess.  Gotta have fanboys out there somewhere.