Xhtml or CSS?

Personally, in highschool, I was taught HTML (which was...5 yrs ago). Did it in good 'ol notepad. Memorized all the tags and all that good shinanigans. However, industry is currently split between HTML and CSS. Now, the only actual advantage to CSS according to most professionals is that it's easier for a search engine to rummage through your site and pick out your keywords, as it's easier to cascade through beautiful coding instead of bumping around inside of tables. For myself personally, HTML is EASIER just because I know all of it already and have recently gotten back into coding at the beginning of this last college semester for a main course. It's what I'm going to be doing when I leave college, however, the other half of the course in the first semester was CSS. CSS's basics are easy as hell and pretty much just MAKE SENSE. However, it's all buggy and half the time causes bullshit on browsers. [ex. INTERNET EXPLORER ] I have found hacks for those to get those to work. Because it's a cascading style sheet, the basics of CSS is free flowing and relative. As designers, it's not always how we want it to be. We want things to be in a certain spot. Or, absolute. The problem with that, is it can mess up the CSS and then you gotta go and mess around with it. It wants everything to be relative. And I don't. I swear that 99% of emails are still HTML anyway. Like I said, the industry is split down the middle. I wanted to get everyone's take on which they think is better or which they prefer and why.

Also, I'd like to add. I found that for those in my class that have never coded before found CSS easier than HTML when I had the opposite effects. For me it was just how I was taught before, so I knew what I was doing with the HTML part of the course where when we were introduced into CSS I was just as new as the other students. I did pick it up stupid fast though since I knew what everything meant but hadn't had an idea for it's applications. So I say, this could be given great consideration when deciding which you prefer, I think it's just a choice between which you learned first.

Also I haven't given CSS a lot of opportunity yet. So I'm going to try and pump our a couple mock sites this Christmas break. Though I do like CSS more than HTML.

Also, I'm just browsing through the source code for this, and noticing it's about a 3:2 ratio. Html to CSS. Not pure of either. That's probably just the smf though.

Spoiler for:

lol@
.drop-down /* ugh IE */
{
position:absolute;
margin-top: -204px;
margin-left: -68px;
border: 1px solid #D0CED7;
background: #DDDBE3;
padding: 2px;
}

Wait for Roph's reply. >:-3

I've only coded in CSS. I hear it's better. The first page I created doesn't work in IE, and I don't know how to fix it. But, CSS is easy, in my opinion.

I'm not the best person to discuss this with though~

You're right though. CSS is easy. It does have problems with IE. CSS is HTML [structurally] and metaphorically speaking. Instead of tables, and rows, and cells, you create containers with div tags and each div is contained within a larger div tag. Kind of how a cell is contained in a larger row which is overall contained in a table. Thanks for the reply though.

html <- where your code/text is
css <- where you tell your code how to be styled.

use them both hand in hand. After a while you can learn css like the back of your hand and lay out a site in a few min's.

learning how to fix problems in IE comes with time, not something you pick right off the bat. My current design job works in IE 6 without me even working on it, just happens. (minus transparency)

I meant css as far as the use of div tags were concerned and not the styles.
I have the fixes for IE, some I think are actually embedded in dreamweaver when you create a new document using one of their css premade layouts. Half the time I just say 'eff you IE' and check out other major browsers, but it's dependent on what you're doing I suppose. But I agree with the practice. Practice does increase a person's comprehension of the coding.

Spoiler for:

You didn't even vote

I code in both at the same time

Though, currently I've been testing out Blueprint, a css 'framework'. Its something people are VERY skeptical about, some hate it, some like it, so I gave it a try. BUT I don't recommend it unless you know css.

If I were to pick one over the other, I'd pick css ONLY because it's a tad more fun than html, but in order for me to have a site I need both.

It is more fun. What exactly is Blueprint? And can I run it on my mac ._.

don't touch it until you know css

it's just css pre-made.

when I add a div, I don't need to work with css for the width all I need is:

<div class="span-2 prepend-1"> and the div will be the width of two spans with an empty span in front of it.

realllllllllllllllllly speeds up the process.

you can view my source code here: http://mildgreen.com/e2/hosting.php (haven't cleaned it up xD)

I know css lol, I just never use it.
Very nice page. I think I've actually seen that somewhere else you posted it.
I really need to start using jquery.

edit. Well, I shouldn't say 'never' use it. I'm just trying to hold back. Literally... I know too much for the course I'm in. I have to hold back. Plus, I don't like being a tutor to 20 other people who have no clue what's going on and who all act like 2 year olds who haven't gotten their diapers changed in 3 weeks. It's new to them. That's why I say hold back.

I use both XHTML and CSS
Was taught HTML in school like around 2-3 years ago and taught myself CSS a few months ago.

And yeah, jQuery is pretty sweet :3
I'm also learning Wordpress theme creation, it's a pretty powerful and not to mention a popular CMS nowadays.

* Lumberjack Nouman is a wordpress freak <3

* Lumberjack Nouman is a wordpress freak <3

Good for you
Nouman are you selling any stuff on Themeforest?
Now they're even accepting PSD templates :3

nah, I've always thought about opening up my own version of the site, but for free theme's that are just as good. :/

LOL @

haha I know, but rest assure I didn't write the content

Blueprint is for Windows OS only I take it? Or at least whatever I download from them is.

XHTML OR CSS? One without the other is kind of pointless :x

Blueprint is for Windows OS only I take it? Or at least whatever I download from them is.

it isn't a program, it's just a set of css files :x Should work on mac, pc, linux w.e.

XHTML OR CSS? One without the other is kind of pointless :x

I realize lol.

I'm trying to think of a better way to pose the question hah. I know we use both... I'm just trying to figure out what part of it a person likes most? I guess that's a slightly better question.

Blueprint is for Windows OS only I take it? Or at least whatever I download from them is.

it isn't a program, it's just a set of css files :x Should work on mac, pc, linux w.e.

I thought as much. I looked at the folder after posting and it just had a lot of layouts and such. I was confused since the primary folder contained a lot of files I can't run on my mac.

XHTML OR CSS? One without the other is kind of pointless :x

that's what I've been thinking this whole time

IE choking on CSS is microsoft's fault, not the W3C's fault.

Also what you described sounded kind of like a div soup. Alot of people are overzealous about tables too. Tables are fine, just use them for their intended purpose, and not to define your layout. I remember seeing a custom SMF theme where in every single template all of the tables used anywhere had been replaced and recreated via other means. That is so ridiculous; many aspects of a forum are pretty much tabular data, where a table is the best option both logically and semantically.

You should have a look at CSS Zen Garden. Go through the different themes and check the markup of each one. You'll notice that it's the same, the layout is controlled entirely by the CSS. This is how CSS is meant to be used, but pretty much nobody (including myself) does it.

You should have a look at CSS Zen Garden. Go through the different themes and check the markup of each one. You'll notice that it's the same, the layout is controlled entirely by the CSS. This is how CSS is meant to be used, but pretty much nobody (including myself) does it.

http://www.csszengarden.com/?cssfile=/202/202.css&page=1

that one gets me every time.

lol question fail

You should have a look at CSS Zen Garden. Go through the different themes and check the markup of each one. You'll notice that it's the same, the layout is controlled entirely by the CSS. This is how CSS is meant to be used, but pretty much nobody (including myself) does it.

http://www.csszengarden.com/?cssfile=/202/202.css&page=1

that one gets me every time.

lol it's so tacky and ugly

it's the effect of it, not how it looks.
I'm more amazed by the idea, and how it was presented, than the actual aesthetic value of it.

lol @ correcting how I perceive something with my own eyes

I know exactly how the page was made, I'm just not impressed at all.

Personally i use both, i don't understand why one or the other must be used. Then again, i program webpages so rarely that i can't even really remember any HTML without reference beyond

<p>
<br>
<Table>
<tr>
<td>
<Body> and <Body background ="whatever.whatever"> and <Body bgcolour="">
<head>
<html>
<img>
<text colour ="">

.-.

You should have a look at CSS Zen Garden. Go through the different themes and check the markup of each one. You'll notice that it's the same, the layout is controlled entirely by the CSS. This is how CSS is meant to be used, but pretty much nobody (including myself) does it.

Yeah, they have some pretty crazy shit down there.

It was not intensional that I ask if you use ONLY one or the other. I wanted to know which side of it you prefer.

Personally i use both, i don't understand why one or the other must be used. Then again, i program webpages so rarely that i can't even really remember any HTML without reference beyond

<Body> and <Body background ="whatever.whatever"> and <Body bgcolour="">

<text colour ="">

So say you upload a bunch of pages written like that, wich a background="somefile.jpg" on each page's body tag. Then in the future, what if you want to change the background? You'd need to edit every single page that had that in the body tag. If those pages simply used a file called style.css, you could just edit the css file:

body {
background: #333 url(somefile.jpg) top left repeat-x;
}

Or whatever. The same goes for font tags. You want some text to stand out in your layoud so you make it red. But then later you decide to change your layout a bit and now blue would fit better. The old way you'd have to then go and edit all those font tags to make them blue, with css you could just edit the class that you should have assigned to your special text =)

Yep, this way an external css divides content from presentation. While HTML provides the basic structure of the site's contect, CSS makes the site looks prettier, arranges the layout/positions, and loads the page quicker (with CSS sprites) so it's an all round improvement

CSS frameworks are there to speed up the process so we don't have to reinvent the wheel.

I always just compared CSS to InDesign's character/paragraph styles. Kinda like an omnistyle.

Personally i use both, i don't understand why one or the other must be used. Then again, i program webpages so rarely that i can't even really remember any HTML without reference beyond

<Body> and <Body background ="whatever.whatever"> and <Body bgcolour="">

<text colour ="">

So say you upload a bunch of pages written like that, wich a background="somefile.jpg" on each page's body tag. Then in the future, what if you want to change the background? You'd need to edit every single page that had that in the body tag. If those pages simply used a file called style.css, you could just edit the css file:

body {
background: #333 url(somefile.jpg) top left repeat-x;
}

Or whatever. The same goes for font tags. You want some text to stand out in your layoud so you make it red. But then later you decide to change your layout a bit and now blue would fit better. The old way you'd have to then go and edit all those font tags to make them blue, with css you could just edit the class that you should have assigned to your special text =)

let me go into detail. When i want to set a scheme for things, i use css. But if i'm too lazy to look up the css or if i'm just going to change something once, i'll use the HTML. For example, if i'm going to make a layout, then i'm going to use css for all of that fancy stuff, but if i'm just going to make one page and i'm feeling particularly lazy i'll cheat with HTML.

we all do that, right?

we all do that, right?

no I don't make even a portion of a page without css.

once you can write css without having to 'look it up' you won't need to put it in the html file.

alright, we all don't then