Posting Blizzard's scripts

When Deliciously_Saucy allegedly posted Blizzard's scripts her moderator rank was taken away and she was driven from the forum. Since RMRK is not and never has been a democracy, I thought I'd give people a place to debate the pros and cons of the decisions made without all the emotions that were present in the other threads discussing it. Did Roph have to take down the scripts? Was it worse to take them down or to deprive new RPG makers of them? Did Kate deserve to have her mod rank removed?

The loss of her mod rank was based on a number of things, I think. IF we're going to argue that point, we should take that into consideration.

Also, you do realize this thread can only spiral downward, right?

(was I kick banned, or did we just get a netsplit or something?)

Deliciously_Saucy was arguing about legality. Of course posting the scripts was legal! It's also legal to mass spam the forums, and flame every single person here. But is it right? I don't think it's right at all. Silverline made the right decision, deleting the scripts. They were posted against the creator's intentions. What makes it worse, he removed every single one of his scripts from these forums when he left. He made sure that his scripts were deprived from the forums. To have them all added back, against his will, is completely wrong. Silverline knew that Blizzard would be angry, and removing the scripts was the only solution.

And arrow, it's a netsplit thing.

She left RMRK...?

Yeah, made a topic...late last night/this morning.

First of all, as an RPG Resource Creator AND a scripter, you all know my view is going to be baised.

Now that I've said that, I'll make my argument.

I agree with Roph's descion 100%, posting scripts without permission really pisses me off, but posting them when the person clearly didn't want them there, that's something even worse. As a scripter, the only thing worse than what DS did would be to take scripts, and say someone else made them (oh wait, she did change the credits to "my sticky fingers" so I guess there is nothing worse than what DS did).

Did Roph HAVE to take the scripts down? Legally, no he doesn't, but clearly while the mods just ignored the topic, it alienated a few members (me, modern algebra, and LoS). As you all know, I was planning to leave, and I certantly didn't expect Roph to disagree with the majority of the staff (of course, I'm glad he did). As a result of this, I've lost quite a bit of respect for some staff members (especially Zeriab and Nouman, but I'm still cool with them).

Are new RPG makers deprived of Blizzard's scripts? Hell no, anyone can go to chaosproject.co.nr and get them. Besdies, Blizzard's said himself he has no problem with someone linking to his forum (he'd rather people not link directly to his topic, but he expects it would happen anyways).

Their his work, he dosen't want them here. So how can we even question if Roph did any wrong by removing them?

he is not depriving anyone of anything, if you want blizzards scripts you can still get them:
http://rmrk.net/index.php/topic,17465.0.html

eh?

As a result of this, I've lost quite a bit of respect for some staff members (especially Zeriab and Nouman, but I'm still cool with them).

its not our topic to touch when it gets that big, everyone wanted Silverline to make a move, that is why we left it alone

Whatever your reasons may have been, I feel that we (LoS, Modern Algebra and myself, and any other's who agreed with me) aren't represnted well by a staff member, that's what dissapointed me. So basically, by having the first topic in the mod forum, it was like we would have no say at all.

It's cool though, it all worked out in the end.

I feel Silver took the right decision by taken the scripts down.

It is a delicate matter when a mod is involved in potential wrong-doings.
Mod disputes belong to the mod forum and it is also where they are solved.

Looking back at the incident I think we should have let you known earlier that the issue was being discussed in the mod as well as give you the opportunity to share your views in a sensible way.
I will naturally reflect over the incident and use it to become a better mod.

Whatever your reasons may have been, I feel that we (LoS, Modern Algebra and myself, and any other's who agreed with me) aren't represnted well by a staff member, that's what dissapointed me. So basically, by having the first topic in the mod forum, it was like we would have no say at all.

It's cool though, it all worked out in the end.

Zeriab, the man that one of you said you "lost respect for" was on your side the entire time. I won't name names, but the person who made that little comment should be ashamed of themselves for saying something of that nature towards someone who was trying so hard to make their point.

Actually, by the way he talked on MSN he was more on your side (if I recall correctly, he said things like "I believe scripts should be avliable everywhere for the people's benefit"). Whatever though, I don't know the details of the mod topic, so it's hard for me to debate any farther on Zeriab and Nouman.

It's hard to be ashamed about something I didn't know. (Now I only have less respect for Nouman, and I'm sure a mod is about to post and change my mind. )

DS is gone now?  I know nothing of scripting, and never checked blizzards, or had any interest, and she probably did a wrongful thing to post them, but I will miss her. 

I was the one who recommended the topic be just links that were directed to blizz's forums, silverline later backed that up, and it is what zeriab took into action.

First of all, as an RPG Resource Creator AND a scripter, you all know my view is going to be baised.

Now that I've said that, I'll make my argument.

I agree with Roph's descion 100%, posting scripts without permission really pisses me off, but posting them when the person clearly didn't want them there, that's something even worse. As a scripter, the only thing worse than what DS did would be to take scripts, and say someone else made them (oh wait, she did change the credits to "my sticky fingers" so I guess there is nothing worse than what DS did).

Did Roph HAVE to take the scripts down? Legally, no he doesn't, but clearly while the mods just ignored the topic, it alienated a few members (me, modern algebra, and LoS). As you all know, I was planning to leave, and I certantly didn't expect Roph to disagree with the majority of the staff (of course, I'm glad he did). As a result of this, I've lost quite a bit of respect for some staff members (especially Zeriab and Nouman, but I'm still cool with them).

Are new RPG makers deprived of Blizzard's scripts? Hell no, anyone can go to chaosproject.co.nr and get them. Besdies, Blizzard's said himself he has no problem with someone linking to his forum (he'd rather people not link directly to his topic, but he expects it would happen anyways).

aside from not having lost respect really, I agree with this point.
I was surprized to see how many people in the IRC disagreed with me on the point when I brought it into the chat.
I only think we should respect blizzard's wishes, and just link ppl to chaosproject
it's not like he took all his scripts offline or anything

Well, I think it was wrong whoever posted the scripts up, whether it was someone from as low as the people that don't even post or all the way up to arl. I'm not sure who posted them although DS seems like the most whatever person mostly because her mod status was removed. >_> Anyways, I feel all actions were necessary but the removal of the mod status. Yes, she was pretty shaky on being a mod but I just don't think she should have been stripped of that privilege or w/e. My main reason being something I can not share.

From ChaosProject, a screenshot from Roph himself:
http://img520.imageshack.us/img520/6527/postkz8.png
He specifically says Saucy knows Blizzard doesn't want his scripts here, so to me, that's admitting it was DS.

NAMKCOR, I agree with you, I couldn't believe how many people on IRC were against me, it offended me more than anything.

Anyways, to Nouman and Zeriab, I must have misunderstood your MSN conversations (I blame my crazy bloodthirsty rage), and since I can't view the mod topic, I guess I'll just forget about loosing respect for you both

My first reaction to the scripts being posted was either wtf? or wondering if Blizzard allowed it. My second reaction, after hearing some sides, was that it should be kept because, well, it wasn't illegal. But my third reaction said otherwise.

One thing I noticed is nobody backed DS up in this instance yet she still insisted she was acting in the best interest of the members... 

She wasn't, she was acting in her own interest... If she was the person who posted Blizzards scripts.

Even if she wasn't the person who posted them her blinkered view as not seeing removing them as Managing the forum and seeing it as an act of Fascism was just odd... Very out of Character for DS, I have noticed her getting more on to the world is against Democracy in recent topic's... She has been slowly getting more aggressive and letting go of emotion, we are all people... We are all part of a Community... it's the community that matters not the politics that drives it, it counts but shouldn't be placed paramount over what binds the community, and thats mutual respect for one and another.

I think the MODS acted well, Zeriab and Nouman are both great guys, they look out for this forum... They are my Favourite Mods (Along with Arlen and a few others like Halo), and I often speak to them before I take my concerns higher as I have great faith in them.

Falcon... The Mods here at RMRK in my opinion are the best on the RPG Making front the Net has to offer... And now DS is gone I hope Silver finds some one who can fill her place... I think another female Mod would be a good Idea... it's a shame Yossy left... Falling that I hope Blizzard returns, but he is on Dial up at the mo...

Dude, I was on her side the whole time, and (THIS TOPIC ISNT ABOUT ARGUING AGAINST ME, THOUGH THIS POST IS DIRECTED AT CERTAIN PARTIES, HINT HINT) I still am.

The best interest of the people doesn't mean you have support from the RMRK regulars. You also have to take into account that there are newb members who come here to gain resources, hence the name RMRK. Now let us argue against Arrow. Jk.

Dude, I was on her side the whole time

Did you agree...?

Or just see it as your duty to back a fellow MOD...?

I mean surely you could see that it was wrong for those scripts to remain right ?...

I think the whole time in the topic you stayed fairly neutral and tried your best to keep the subject matter grounded, and helped stop it from escalating... You in my opinion never took a side... You was very professional... Just cuz I didn't mention you in my Fav mods list... Thats only as I have never seen any thing in the way of RPG Making come from you...

I have stated prior every Mod brings something to the table... You I would say add a touch of Humor, in an intelligent and respectful way... You know the line and rarely cross it... I have rarely seen you flame others for no reason...

Your a Good Mod...

But my fav's are those that create stuff for others within RPG... They add not just by monitoring if you get me...

Sorry if the above post came across as an attack on you... It's not at all... Your a cool Mod 

Oh no, dude, I wasn't feeling attacked, I'm just saying, I agreed 100% with what she had to say. If people will use cracks for things like Windowblinds and Photoshop, then what right do they have to say its more important that they protect their friend's stuff based on that reason alone is all I'm saying. Let he who is not a pirate fire the first cannonball.

Personally, I don't really care.
Is it not over? I thought they were all deleted and it was done with.

Oh no, dude, I wasn't feeling attacked, I'm just saying, I agreed 100% with what she had to say. If people will use cracks for things like Windowblinds and Photoshop, then what right do they have to say its more important that they protect their friend's stuff based on that reason alone is all I'm saying. Let he who is not a pirate fire the first cannonball.

I agree with her, also.

Oh no, dude, I wasn't feeling attacked, I'm just saying, I agreed 100% with what she had to say. If people will use cracks for things like Windowblinds and Photoshop, then what right do they have to say its more important that they protect their friend's stuff based on that reason alone is all I'm saying. Let he who is not a pirate fire the first cannonball.

You pirate stuff, but if somebody you knew or a friend had something stolen from them, you'd support it?

Duh it's hypocritical that they were deleted. Blizzard's (was) an rmrk member ;o

Anyway, I'm sure if adobe asked me to stop you guys sharing photoshop here I would =p

Well, here's a small opinion of mine on pirating.

I have no problems buying software that is reasonably priced, but when programs like photoshop, dreamweaver, etc are priced at hundreds of dollars, who can expect someone not to save hundreds of dollars? Programs like RMXP which are only $60, which is much more reasonably priced, make sense to buy. But fuck you adobe, I'm not going to pay $300 for your crap.

Although I don't think Blizzard can be compared to a company, he's not being unreasonable with his scripts, all you have to do is go to his site. He's not making you pay or anything. So why should you take advantage of him? It's not like redirecting to chaosproject hurts the forum or anything!

That's just my personal view, most of you probably don't share it