AMERICA: A NATION TO BE ASHAMED OF? OR NOT?

1. The War on Terrorism:
Glad to know we are on the same page, then.

2. Freedom Fighters:
Look, kiddo, Al Qaeda are in no way comparable to the American revolutionists. A Qaeda are only fighting for (correct me if I am wrong) Sunni Islamists. The Americans fought for ALL the American colonists, not a select few. They aren't even fighting for freedom, they're fighting for a Sunni caliphate, and to kill all the people they think are wrong, the "infidels". They aren't fighting to be "left alone" at all. And sure, slavery was wrong, but slavery is not the same thing as genocide. Saddam got what he got. Whatever.

3. Freedom:
Ruhani777- Key word "attempts". Why can't they get it done and over with already?
 Darico- I don't see what capital punishment has to do with freedom. And, as I recall, Middle Eastern countries seem to have it as well   Shame we can't get executions carried out as quickly as they can, huh?

4. The Economy:
Ruhani- I don't believe in giving people equal social status "just because". Why should we , as a country, focus on evening out standards of lower-class citizens with the standards of higher-class citizens when they have the opportunity to do that themselves? We're a "selfish" country just because we're not giving bigger hand-outs than we do already? Also, frankly, I don't care how crude or obnoxious you find me.
Darico- People who can't work for "real reasons" are on disability or welfare. Hell, people that can work are on welfare.

5. Bush More focused on war:
Whatev. New president in a few years.

6. The Army:
Ruhani- Hahaha, what wars would you consider having "meaning?
Darico- Imperialism is pretty much the extension of power of one thing over another. You work it out

7. Racism, Hatred, Racial Profiling, and Discrimination:
Pfft. Muslims are more prejudice about their own kind than Americans of one color are about Americans of another color. The prejudice and discrimination in the Middle East is far more prevalent and volatile than anything currently in the U.S. And anyway, like I said, that sort of thing is up to an individual. You know, in like, non-Muslim religions. "friendly black fellow" is now pretty much a term of endearment. "Infidel" hasn't seemed to have changed much in meaning, though

8. Users:
It's a good business move to use cheap labor. It's cost-efficient to outsource. We can use other nations' resources because we have the money to, because the U.S. dollar is more valuable than tons of other currencies. Americans make good business choices. Sorry we aren't poor.

9. Jews:
I respect some things about Hitler. His opinions on Jews are not one of them (I'm pretty sure he hated Muslims too ). For every stereotype you make about Jews, there is one to make about Muslims.

10. Destruction to the environment:
And what do you expect the U.S. to do? Stop using cars? Stop manufacturing goods? There's no "improving" the environment, anyway. The best we can do is what we are doing now- researching environmentally "friendly" technologies and putting them to use, so that even if we're not "improving" the environment, we're not making it any worse.

11. Unnecessary wars:
Darico- what's wrong with globalization?

12. A major weakness:
Ruhani- The Declaration of Independence does not give any rights. It was a list of reasons the Americans were revolting in the first place. And the British did not attack in spite of it. Also, it is, notice, a declaration of INDEPENDENCE from Britain's rule, not a declaration of FREEDOM.
Darico- Yes. And people run about the streets with guns in other countries where it is illegal to do so, and those countries don't have anywhere near the law enforcement that the U.S. has.

13. Having Relied on other countries:
What's wrong with using ally forces?

14. American Products:
Not really.

15. Censorship:
I don't see anything wrong with nudity. Some people, however, do. Nudity is something that is not public, but something an individual can still choose to view at their own discretion.

16. America is too religious:
How is it lame that rather than acting destructively and militantly in the name of religion, some religions choose to act through charity? It's in the Christian doctrine to do that kind of thing, and they are not forcing anyone at gunpoint to convert.

17. Constitution based on religion:
Ruhani- Nowhere, absolutely nowhere in the U.S. constitution is the word "god" used.
Darico- Depends on what you mean by "signed". It was FINISHED on September 17, 1787; it was RATIFIED June 21, 1788 (thx NH); and they started using it March 4, 1789. The Bill of Rights was added in 1791. No, I didn't have to look those dates up. I could recite the preamble and give you the first ten amendments if you'd like, too

18. Some more Opinions:
Still keeping my views here. U.S.A. ftw.

1. The War on Terrorism:
 

2. Freedom Fighters:
Either way, BOTH were acts of crimes against humanity, and i dont think its fair how saddamn could just be executed in a heartbeat, whereas americans pay their debt to african americans through a so called "affirmative action"

3. Freedom:
It's because people like bush keep interfering.

4. The Economy:
Heck, so you're telling Fidel Castro, communist, could do exactly what i have said, and whereas the U.S., democrative, could not even out the stands of lower class witht he middle class, its easy for somebody to say who isnt lower class.

5. Bush More focused on war:
Can't wait.

6. The Army:
People dont have wars for no reason. Did you think napolean started taking over the world (Attempted) because he was bored?

7. Racism, Hatred, Racial Profiling, and Discrimination:
I find no racism in the middle east,

8. Users:
this clearly shows U.S. citizens are lazy, or maybe it's because they

9. Jews:
Yeah, he hated people who didnt have blue eyes, or blonde hair.

10. Destruction to the environment:

And what do you expect the U.S. to do? Stop using cars? Stop manufacturing goods? There's no "improving" the environment, anyway. The best we can do is what we are doing now- researching environmentally "friendly" technologies and putting them to use, so that even if we're not "improving" the environment, we're not making it any worse.

Who said you weren't you are making it worse.

11. Unnecessary wars:
Seriously all im saying, Grow too much in power over one, fall like a boulder, like the rest. Just like how saddamn did.

12. A major weakness:
You dont get freedom, just cuz its written on paper, EX: the Preamble to the consitution. You have to f*cking earn it, and show the others, how well you've recieved your freedom.

13. Having Relied on other countries:
Relying on other countries during war is okay, shows me you've got good battle plans, but for other reasons, it totally sucks. the us is totally used to this, if they dont use outsourcing, the us is fucked

14. American Products:
Yea really...

15. Censorship:
Agreed...

16. America is too religious:
I did not say you guys convert through gunpoint. Im saying you do through bribery. Why it aint like any other religion whereas you guys try and convert other people.

17. Constitution based on religion:
Don't care, cause it has nothing to do with me, but thnx for the history lesson... 

18. Some more Opinions:
What ever.

Your arguments are getting weaker and weaker.

If you're actually interested in discussing this any further, my MSN Messenger address is pinkfr3ud@hotmail.com .  I am done in this topic

This thread shows that its creator is an anti-Semitic idiot with doublestandards who accuses an entire country and its people of racism and religious zealousness whilst simultaneously downtrodding both the Americans and Jews, and furthermore shows his utter lack of understanding of foreign policy and economics, as well as pretty much everything else.
It also shows that he doesn't understand the meaning of certain terms, such as 'terrorism', which is a targeted attack on civilians. Invasions, air raids, and general warfare doesn't count, even if civilians are caught in the crossfire of a messy war. OH HEY GUYS MAYBE IF ONE OF THE SUPERIOR EUROPEAN COUNTRIES WAGED A WAR ONLY SOLDIERS AND DUMB LEADERS WOULD DIE AND NO CIVILIANS WOULD BE KILLED AND THERE WOULDN'T BE ANY ATROCITIES AND NO CHILDREN WOULD BE CRYING.

I didn't know importing wood from Brazil or oil from oil-producing countries was using them, or allying with nations (such as Israel the evil Jew state and the United Kingdom) against a common enemy was using them any more than they using us!

In short, Ruhani is an idiot and a hypocrite who is obviously racist and xenophobic.

That seems a little hostile, don't you think?

After those attacks of his on both the United States and world Jewry, I really don't give a fuck how 'hostile' my comment was.

You make me one sad panda.

*sigh* i guess explaining how America is in my opinion in peaceful terms just doesnt help. Guys, do you really want me to start a real arguement, I really wanted to put America is sh*tty and it s*cks more than a ***** who s*cks D*ck for a living. But no, i didnt want to put that, because, even though i find america totally unagreeable with, I still respect it's people, and all my critisizm are inflicted upon the administration and the leaders themselves. Not you guys. So if you think critcism like that is gonna get anything out of this, think again, and actually think about what you put on a damn forum, before mess actually starts to happen. (Not pertaining to what i put)

You said you were, what, 13?

So I can only assume you're just repeating out what you've been brought up in. Your parent's religion, your parent's views (which are likely influenced by said religion) on the US.

Think for yourself.

I'm british, and from most britons standpoint, people have the feeling that Tony Blair has made Britan the US's bitch. To me, you basically look like you're going for the easy target that is the US. Let's just blame it all on the largest superpower! Sure, I wouldn't agree if somebody said the US was perfect or "Not that bad", but you just seem kind of pissed that they have things better than you.

Why do you censor 'sucks' but not 'damn' in your posts? You make no sense.
Furthermore, your points are unfounded.
I'm going to reply to your original post, since I got confused by the succeeding posts, so I'll probably repeat some points raised since.

Bush knew about the September 11th bombings, but it could’ve been because of the 1998 Trade Center Bombings.

Before they happened? Did he really?

This led to the invasion of Afghanistan, in search for Osama Bin Laden (Failed).

Is it failed if it's not actually over?

A few years later, their intelligence tells them that Iraq has WMDA (Weapons of Mass Destruction), and then the army settles there. Bush deliberately attacked this country under false pretenses, but soon later I will talk about the most stupid things America has done.

I actually agree that the invasion was unjustified, but pulling out now would just cause more problems.

The elimination of Saddam Hussein, was unfair, he was given the right to trial by jury, but executed for crimes against humanity. Yes, this is a crime against humanity, but look back in the past. No one even bothers to call the enslavement of Africans, a crime against humanity. Want to know why? Because it’s America, and they believe it’s just a major mistake they did.

Nobody? Because I've heard plenty of people talk about the enslavement of Africans a crime against humanity. See, it's just that ended over a century ago so it's not exactly relevant to Saddam.

Freedom Fighters: Current groups known as freedom fighters: Ham as, Al Qaeda, Taliban (Former group, now broken up into smaller groups, for the sake of their survival), and Hezbollah, etc. Look, the reason I call them Freedom Fighters, is because they are, they’re like the American Revolutionists, who fought against the British, for injustice, independence, liberty, and freedom.

What fighting for freedom is is extremely objective. I dislike the term, these guys aren't so much freedom fighters as jihadists attempting to spread their ideology through means of violence.

Here’s how it goes. The U.S. military fired first, beginning the war, the Freedom Fighters fired back.

They did? Which shot was that?

They’re just fighting for the sake of being left alone.

Some.

Let me put it this way, when the Americans wanted freedom from the British, they fought back, they spread their message (We want to be free, we don’t want you lobster backs here). So aren’t they considered terrorists? Aren’t the British considered terrorists? Ex: Boston Massacre: A group of colonists protesting/boycotting British goods

The Americans waged a war against the British, yes, but it was different. Indeed, there were attacks on Loyalists, but the Americans didn't set make it their main strategy to attack British civilians in the continent and elsewhere.

America got their freedom right from the start, because they wrote it on a piece of paper.

The Americans earned their freedom as much as the Africans did.

The Economy: Capitalism only rewards those who earn, leaving those who don’t behind. This is very true. If the United States were rich, then why do we have more than 1 million homeless people out on the streets? The people earning their money are going through hassles, just trying to get back on their feet.

America isn't rich because 0.3% of the population is homeless (mostly drunks or the mentally ill, many of whom have been offered help and refused)?

Bush More focused on war: Dude I’m telling you, screw war, what obviously can it accomplish?

Read the 'WAR! WHAT IS IT GOOD FOR?' thread.

His lack of completing the World Trade Center was an obnoxious gesture.

What?

The Army: Hey look at me, I wear colored clothing, and carry big guns, and explosives, where as those 3rd world countries can’t and that’s why we’re here, so that only we can be in power. This explains all, no need for further argument on this subject.

...

Racism, Hatred, Racial Profiling, and Discrimination: 2 common examples of victims of these are: Islamic People (Arabs as some say), and African Americans. In New York, an Arab can’t walk from one street to the other, without getting that suspicious eye, from the law enforcement. In the 1960s and 50s, this was being used all out against African Americans. The fact that Bush decides to deport Muslims back to their countries, because of racial profiling, just makes me sick. Its bad enough you have to deport Mexicans, but Muslims?

Why is the government deporting Mexicans and Muslims? I know it deports illegal immigrants, as well as criminals, but how is this racist? PERHAPS THERE ARE SOME MASS DEPORTATIONS I KNOW NOT OF?

Americans: All out users: We feature you the users, and the used. America surely loves to use countries. Iraq= Good oil supply. Venezuela= Cheap, but efficient oil supply. Mexico= Used for cheap labor, and taken for granted heavily. Israel= A second military front, for clearing out small Islamic Militia Groups. Canadians= Cheap Medicine, and livestock supply. Brazil= Wood, and to think the Americans are using it, and saving it at the same time, you could clearly see the Irony in that. UK= A third military front, used mainly to bust and foil Terrorist plans. Well my examples clearly show, America=User, Countries listed= Used.

Trade partners and war allies. Big deal. Doesn't mean we're any more evil than they are.

ews: Oh for the love of god, I have an entire page for these folks (Probably not). Let me put it this way, Jews, are greedy, boastful, ignorant, and obnoxious, as well as they complain too much. If you find this racist, watch what I have in stock for you. Jews say that the Islamic religion is an abomination to the world. As for me being a Muslim, I find this hard to believe. Jews are always in a constant mood of complaining. One common example be would saying Hitler out loud during a bar-mitzvah. My advice: GET OVER IT, QUIT COMPLAINING ABOUT THE PAST, AND LIVE YOUR LIVES, AS PEOPLE, NOT VICTIMS OF THE PAST. I hate having to admit this, but Hitler’s idea of exterminating Jews was disgusting, and as more, and more in depth I think about the relationships, I’m finding the reason why Hitler may have caused trouble for Jews. Rumors are going around, saying that Hitler’s mother, and him, were arrested and separated. Whilst in jail, Hitler had plans of exterminating Jews, which I find disturbing.  Why they were arrested, no one knows, and no one knew what happened to Hitler’s mother. As a young teen, Hitler observed Jews; found them to be exactly as I have said. Let me explain to you in depth, of how Jews are what they are today. Jews are greedy; I have a couple of Jew friends, now separated, because they feel Islam is “spam” to the world. Greediness: They love to express this in a lot of ways (EX: My Jew friends were credit hungry, and took most of the project credit for themselves). Jews boast a lot. (EX: HA! I’m level 164 on runescape, HA!) (EX: Look at this Emerald Ring I bought for my wife… Jew: Yeah, looks nice (Sarcasm), but check out my Diamond Ring, it costs 5000$, I’m pretty sure, that’s enough for 3 Emerald Rings. ). Boasting pisses me off, and they’re clearly Bougie. Ignorant, completely ignorant on topics that have nothing to do with them. Obnoxious. Oh god, Jews can get extremely obnoxious. If you curse them out, or offend them in any way, they lash out on you, and they start to complain, the most obvious excuse is the Holocaust. This is probably the reason why certain people hate Jews, you guys complain too much. NOTE: I AM NOT TO BE CONDEMNED FOR ANY RACISM (IF ANY) IN THIS TOPIC, IF YOU FEEL UNCOMFORTABLE ABOUT THIS; I SUGGEST YOU DO NOT READ IT. Note: America sure loves to use it.

And you call the US racist!

  Destruction to the environment: If you haven’t noticed, Americans are outputting more and more pollution to the environment, than any other country.

I've stated my views on environmental change (not destruction!) before. Anyways, as for pollution (which is obviously undesireable), somehow I imagine America isn't as bad as, say, China.

A major weakness: America’s power all resides in a single document, known as the Constitution, and the Declaration of Independence. Without these 2 documents, America is totally screwed. So if these documents were to be destroyed (Hypothetically), The American country would be up for grabs. Any country could claim control over it, and all because they do not have the Declaration of Independence. The American Government would really be a dictatorship, rather than a Democratic nation.

What the fucking shit did you just say?

American Products: Bad quality: America has good prices for nearly everything, but goods and services are usually of low quality. Think of the great number Americans who receive a free "cell phone" for signing up for a mobile plan. But, then the "phone" doesn't receive service everywhere it is supposed to or you drop the thing once and it doesn't work anymore. Is it really a cell phone then? No, it's just a piece of junk from Korea that's an illusion of a cell phone. But hey, at least you got it for free. Europe may be expensive, but most goods and services are of much better quality. Garbage Kyocera "cell phones" from Korea can't penetrate European markets because the people demand and expect quality. Even McDonald's tastes better in Holland. And in most cases, the Dutch cashiers speak better English! Now that fact, which I have found from my own experiences, proves how America can be "disgustingly disagreeable or offensive," and therefore sucks.

. . .

Censorship: America goes too far with censorship. What’s the censorship, if kids could get their hands on X rated books and videos. in the United States, sex is unmentionable and any amount of nudity is taboo. We all remember the Janet Jackson ordeal at last year's Super Bowl. Our fanatical attitude toward sex and nudity is precisely why she did it. She knew it would get her a lot of publicity. I'm not saying we should all be able to walk around naked, but come on, we've all seen a naked breast before. It's no big deal. Continuing on the subject of sex, the fact that children need sexual education classes in fourth grade proves that sex is unmentionable in America for most people. Even parents cannot mention anything about the subject and need the school to teach their kids about the birds and the bees instead. It's quite offensive.

Things are changing. Also, sex ed for the 4th graders?

America is too religious: America is too religious and is controlled by the rabid, Evangelical Christians of the south. Everyone knows this fact from the last election.

Haha, you're exaggerating so much.

As for healthcare, well that's another debate entirely.

Some more Opinions: We only "rule" over fifty states, making us appear as underachievers to the rest of the world.

Well, we could easily annex some additional territories for ourselves.

Abu Ghraib proves our military is totally okay with encouraging gay lifestyles.

:/

*sigh* i guess explaining how America is in my opinion in peaceful terms just doesnt help. Guys, do you really want me to start a real arguement, I really wanted to put America is sh*tty and it s*cks more than a ***** who s*cks D*ck for a living.

And if you did, you should've been banned from life for being an idiot unable to formulate a coherent argument. Actually, you are such an idiot anyways and should be banned from life.

But no, i didnt want to put that, because, even though i find america totally unagreeable with, I still respect it's people, and all my critisizm are inflicted upon the administration and the leaders themselves.

Except those generalisations of religious overzealousness and racism. Your posts have strong overtones of anti-Americanism, and not just against American leadership.

Not you guys. So if you think critcism like that is gonna get anything out of this, think again, and actually think about what you put on a damn forum, before mess actually starts to happen. (Not pertaining to what i put)

no u!

listen catman (Funny how you have a disease for your name) anyways,

Americans shot first under false pretenses.

Bush needs to get his a*s out there and fight

Osama needs to put more effort into his work

YOU make no sense, talking all that sh*t over the goddamn computer, come here an say that, and we'll just see what happens smarta*s

Invasion of Afghanistan: It's failed because withdrew his troops out of afghanistan and focused on the new topic the: Iraq.

Pulling out troops would be okay, i find nothing so obviously flawless about that.

Oh yes it's relevant to saddam... they're both crimes against  huminity, no doubt.

Yes, of course, they did not make it their main plan to attack the british, but they were forced to, because they thought things would be settled if they wrote it in a document, and plus, they're a newborn nation, they're not prepared for circumstances like these.

Bush possibly knew about the attacks, but note, they're just myths, check out this gov't site.

http://usinfo.state.gov/xarchives/display.html?p=pubs-english&y=2006&m=August&x=20060828133846esnamfuaK0.2676355

http://usinfo.state.gov/media/Archive/2005/Jan/14-610042.html

Hope that explains some....

War is just another brutish way of saying..... WE'RE BETTER THAN YOU!

Mass Deportations: Read this article: http://www.counterpunch.org/reeves03062004.html

Then there should be no point of using countries, if you're oh so superior to that of others.

Not Racist: Just pissed off...

Bad Quality indeed...

lets not get hasty here, i have no problem with gettin territories, just so long as you dont "take over" countries.

I'm not ashamed of my country, but I am disappointed in our leaders. Bush will go down in history as one of the worst presidents we've ever had, if not the worst.

totally agree with you holkeye, he's worse than a dictator hated by all ^^.

listen catman (Funny how you have a disease for your name) anyways

o wow ur so clevar

Americans shot first under false pretenses.

You fail to answer my question, fuckwit.

Bush needs to get his a*s out there and fight

Except political leaders don't fight, they send others to do that.

Osama needs to put more effort into his work

I hope he sets NYC up the bomb.

YOU make no sense, talking all that sh*t over the goddamn computer, come here an say that, and we'll just see what happens smarta*s

Oh no! A puny thirteen year old's going to kick my ass!
And again, if you're going to curse, say the fucking word, don't use asterisks! Goddamn it.

Invasion of Afghanistan: It's failed because withdrew his troops out of afghanistan and focused on the new topic the: Iraq.

The invasion didn't fail. If it did, we'd still be fighting Taliban, now wouldn't we?

Oh yes it's relevant to saddam... they're both crimes against  huminity, no doubt.

Oh shitsickles, our ancestors committed 'crimes against humanity' against the Africans, now we can never accuse anyone else of doing the same!

Yes, of course, they did not make it their main plan to attack the british, but they were forced to, because they thought things would be settled if they wrote it in a document, and plus, they're a newborn nation, they're not prepared for circumstances like these.

You fail to see my point, dumbass.

Bush possibly knew about the attacks, but note, they're just myths, check out this gov't site.

http://usinfo.state.gov/xarchives/display.html?p=pubs-english&y=2006&m=August&x=20060828133846esnamfuaK0.2676355

http://usinfo.state.gov/media/Archive/2005/Jan/14-610042.html

Hope that explains some....

...

War is just another brutish way of saying..... WE'RE BETTER THAN YOU!

No it isn't.

Mass Deportations: Read this article: http://www.counterpunch.org/reeves03062004.html

Is this article worth my time or is it just the same kind of shit LoS posts?

Then there should be no point of using countries, if you're oh so superior to that of others.

What the fucking shit? I've already said we're not 'using' other countries, the UK's not our bitch it's an ally. Israel's not our bitch, it's our ally. Brazil's not our bitch, it's our trading partner.

Not Racist: Just pissed off...

Ah, so you just make sweeping generalisations of Jews and Americans because you're pissed off? Well that makes it OK doesn't it?

lets not get hasty here, i have no problem with gettin territories, just so long as you dont "take over" countries.

What?

Also, Bush isn't THAT fucking bad. God, you're such a spoiled little bitch if you think that Bush is the worst leader in history.

I know I said I was done in this thread, but I find it funny that Ruhani is currently living in the U.S.~

I bet his mommy beats him if he doesn't show proper respects to the American flag every time he sees one.

Psh. He's a Sunni Muslim. His mother probably beats him if he doesn't burn a flag daily.

OH WAIT. She's a woman. She probably takes the beating for him, then she makes up to daddy by flashing a bit of hot ankle.

Oh, that explains so much!
Fucking Muslims hating our country and the Jews!

I bet he's going to be a suicide bomber one day, knowing not that he is actually naught but a pawn of the international Jewish conspiracy.

THIS TOPIC IS NOW LOCKED, YOUR IGNORANCE, OBNOXIOUSNESS, AND ARROGANCE, FAILED TO HELP THIS TOPIC FLAME PROOF. GOOD DAY.

idk if this was posted, but america is acctually the farthest behind on rights...
We don't allow gay marraige, We have a very high crime rate, and the only thing the people have to say in is the idiot who we say can rule us...

This topic died almost a month ago. Now its come back to life, and its going to tear everyone to pieces with its rhetoric and infantile jabs at other cultures. Congratulations, guys.

im locking it

You said that a long time ago...

One thing to say (because everything else to be said has already been said) -

The US DID earn their freedom. If you don't think so, then how about you go to a country that is controlled (not occupied, but actaully CONROLLED) by a superpower like the British (no offense intended. Personally I like the British) and tell them to get off YOUR land when THEY own it. They send soldiers after you, what, you think writing on a piece of paper makes them go away? NO.

Lol, it's a more than a little ignorant to say the United States of America got their Freedom as soon as they wrote the declaration of independance.

Also, please note that, unlike most other countries, our country doesn't have a singular name. It's the United STATES of America.

In another way of putting it, we're a bunch of states who have formed an alliance and are located in America. That's because we're not as self-centered as most claim we are. Thank you and good night.