Jesus - Man or Myth?

What I don't understand is why people still bother to argue about this shit.

Since time had to have a start as well

You've forgotten about infinity?

12 men who actually WERE

Fact ?_? Oh right, your bible says it, lol

You just said, you would admit all possibilities. =P

It's possible our lives are actually the same as is portrayed in The Matrix..

How can I be sure that everything around me is real? How can I be sure that everything exists? I am here, I do exist. I think, so I am. But everything else? It can be an illusion, it doesn't have to. =/ All I can do is believe. Hey, maybe it's me who's unreal, it might be only you who's real. But for me, I am real. Are you real?

..^ Which I'm suspecting you may have recently watched.

Why is it obvious that it always existed. You want to say time and space have always existed? Sorry, but this doesn't make sense at all. Especially because time is "going only into one direction" and never repeats. Time and space don't exist for eternity. Time is a limitation of eternity, therefore it can't be eternal.

I see where your post where you judged yourself saying you have higher intellect than others came from more now =o

but this doesn't make sense at all

Exactly, which is why (assuming I cared), I wouldn't bother trying. I also wouldn't simply make up my own explanation and then convince myself that it's true either.

Then it's pointless. If there is not goal to reach, it's pointless to go towards it, since... well, there is nothing you could go towards to...

There's nothing wrong with enjoying my life? When I die I will rot in the groud. The end. That's not a reason to make the most of a life? Of course, this involves doing things that make you feel good. Generally, helping people, being friendly etc, are enjoyable. And bad things like rape, murder etc (normally) fill you with guilt and shame. "IF THEY HAVE NO BELEIFS, THEN THERE IS NO ULTIMATE CONSEQUENCE!? SO WHY THE MORALS!?" - It's like, fairly simple.

Religion is used to bring origin closer, science to explain it. Well, we didn't get so far with science so far, lol!

I'm feeling more like this is going to be my last post in this thread. I can go create an entirely new theory on origin, try to cover every base (good luck on some LOL), and I've "owned" science?

I gave up reading after this, lol.

Infinity and what we can measure are different, if space and time has existed for so long that we have no measurement even close, Don't you think it would be defined as infinity?

Since time had to have a start as well

You've forgotten about infinity?

Infinity doesn't go back.

12 men who actually WERE

Fact ?_? Oh right, your bible says it, lol

Or let me rephrase it, since you believe he never existed.
12 men making up a lie and giving their lives for it? 12 men who have never met before? Those 12 men are not the same as one who just HEARD of Jesus, even if they made it up. That means whether there was a Jesus or not, those 12 guys DID know the truth behind it.

You just said, you would admit all possibilities. =P

It's possible our lives are actually the same as is portrayed in The Matrix..

Yes. Everything is possible. I seriously hope it's not true, since I find the thought of a machine feeding upon my energy just ew, but it can be true.

How can I be sure that everything around me is real? How can I be sure that everything exists? I am here, I do exist. I think, so I am. But everything else? It can be an illusion, it doesn't have to. =/ All I can do is believe. Hey, maybe it's me who's unreal, it might be only you who's real. But for me, I am real. Are you real?

..^ Which I'm suspecting you may have recently watched.

I have watched Matrix more than 3 years ago if it's that what you're refering to.

Why is it obvious that it always existed. You want to say time and space have always existed? Sorry, but this doesn't make sense at all. Especially because time is "going only into one direction" and never repeats. Time and space don't exist for eternity. Time is a limitation of eternity, therefore it can't be eternal.

I see where your post where you judged yourself saying you have higher intellect than others came from more now =o

No, it's logic. You can be stupid like a brick and yet understand it. It's not my fault, that I have more intellect than other people. It's a curse, not a bless. I have to live with it, you don't. Be happy.
If I could have chosen, I would have chosen to be normal, like everybody else.

but this doesn't make sense at all

Exactly, which is why (assuming I cared), I wouldn't bother trying. I also wouldn't simply make up my own explanation and then convince myself that it's true either.

She said "this", I answered "that". Making up an explanation is very different from coming to a conclusion. That above is a conclusion, not an explanation.

Of course, this involves doing things that make you feel good. Generally, helping people, being friendly etc, are enjoyable. And bad things like rape, murder etc (normally) fill you with guilt and shame. "IF THEY HAVE NO BELEIFS, THEN THERE IS NO ULTIMATE CONSEQUENCE!? SO WHY THE MORALS!?"

This is what Christianity is teaching: Life has a sense, don't throw it away, yours or the lives of anybody else.

Religion is used to bring origin closer, science to explain it. Well, we didn't get so far with science so far, lol!

I'm feeling more like this is going to be my last post in this thread. I can go create an entirely new theory on origin, try to cover every base (good luck on some LOL), and I've "owned" science?

You misunderstood. I meant religion isn't there to explain "HOW", but to say "YES, THERE'S AN ORIGIN.".

I gave up reading after this, lol.

I don't blame you. I wish I wouldn't have to waste my time typing this, but I'm just somebody who doesn't like it if somebody else spits on him for what he is. =/

I'm just somebody who doesn't like it if somebody else spits on him for what he is. =/

I am afraid that Jesus is really a real person. First, There has been more music, books, art and hate crimes against Jesus than any person in history. Yo don't hate some body if he is not real. Second there is more than Just the Bible that talks about Jesus. I don't believe in the Koran as I think it has the wrong beliefs but it mentions Jesus and so does other philosophers and writers of that day.

Even better for me, lol! I know there's a lot of evidence for Jesus, but as I said, I'm not trying to prove anybody wrong here.

Myth..
I mean there is not even a prove that God is alive or up there and who even freakin thought of it..
A GOD !?
I mean WTF !
Somebody made it up and everyone got fooled by it and even jesus he was just a retard

God is an infinite andan all powerful being the reason that we can't comprehend how infinite he really is is because it is beyond our comprehension.

Try and make sense please, cobragamer.

Well, ACTUALLY we're both not wright and not wrong. It's just undefined. =/ I just checked wiki and it says there is still the debate going on whether it is a belief or not. Could be a matter of personal taste? ?_? I mean like in "What do I think of me as an atheist? Do I believe in that or...?".

And the ones debating that it's "just faith"...? Christians, that's right.

There's nothing to debate about, I don't define the borderlines of what Christians believe, I'll debate it though, so I really don't see were these people get of telling me the definitions of what I believe.
Debate it, feel free,  but just think of this: Would Christians take with any seriousness if I proclaimed that they are actually worshiping Ganesh..? 

Also, Wiki is one of the most unreliable source you can get, it has a lot of info, and I'm sure some of it's correct but it's all publicly donated and I doubt the moderators can really make the big decisions.

First off the second coming of Jesus has nothing to do with the "Real World". This might only mean, we're all gonna die someday. I don't know. In the Bible he said something like we would recognise it's him and stuff. My best guess is to just trust in those words. Maybe it even means something completely different. Maybe the second coming of Jesus is individual for every person. Could it be death then and meeting him? I don't know.

Just keep in mind that I have read the bible too... I also know what Christians believe in, but those are some fine conspiracies you have going for you.

Well, I was talking about 12 men who actually WERE traveling with Jesus. Or let me rephrase it, since you believe he never existed.
12 men making up a lie and giving their lives for it? 12 men who have never met before? Those 12 men are not the same as one who just HEARD of Jesus, even if they made it up. That means whether there was a Jesus or not, those 12 guys DID know the truth behind it.

Not to repeat but:
I'm sorry, but who said they existed?
I can show you a story written by other people that I made up the other day.

In Buddism there is as good as no mentioning of a god if you didn't know. If you're admitting all possibilities nd would believe with evidence... Well, that's not belief anymore. But I know what you are trying to say, no need to reply to this part.

I wasn't "trying", I spoke. Buddhism has strong belief in the occult, in my mind there is no difference between it and other supernatural following "faiths".

And yes, I am quite aware the beliefs of Buddhist. Did you know that a certain branch of Buddhism believes Buddha himself, to be god? Last time I checked, Christianity was just a "branch"...

You just said, you would admit all possibilities. =P

And you just avoided the one question I wanted answered, it's not a trick, it's simply showing you how Atheist think. In our minds, god is just another story being told to bring a charade of happiness.

How can I be sure that everything around me is real? How can I be sure that everything exists? I am here, I do exist. I think, so I am. But everything else? It can be an illusion, it doesn't have to. =/ All I can do is believe. Hey, maybe it's me who's unreal, it might be only you who's real. But for me, I am real. Are you real?

As I said, you can't disprove a negative, but I certainly bet you could show more evidence of your existence to people then there is of Jesus.

Want some evidence? Take a photo of yourself, it may not prove you exist, but it is still evidence showing you did. And given that your speaking from some side of insanity, you certainly can't dismiss it is a figment of your mind, after all, your coming from insanity.

But just remember: You can't disprove a negative so you can't prove it's "not" evidence, but you have evidence it itself exists...

I am only trying to say it's hard to 100% prove the past. Sure, you can give an ammount number of evidence, but that doesn't make it 100% fact. And there are not only 12 guys who witnessed Jesus.

No you can't, but you have provided no verified evidence, which leads me to make a certain claim based on lack of evidence , and yes, lack of evidence is evidence that something doesn't exists. As I see it, we're one up.

There are none, that's what I was trying to say. No "record" except for the Bible.

Then that's all you have to base your claims..? Koran doesn't count...

Why is it obvious that it always existed. You want to say time and space have always existed? Sorry, but this doesn't make sense at all. Especially because time is "going only into one direction" and never repeats. Time and space don't exist for eternity. Time is a limitation of eternity, therefore it can't be eternal.

Why would it make sense..? I didn't say that. What I said however is speculation, I'll be speculation made with logical thinking and from a scientific mind... But your wrong about the time thing, or at least unfounded... 

The one thing that is agreed upon, is the most simple of what I said, which is energy has no beginning, making it timeless, that timeless thing, being incredibly simple. That is the most likely origin based on speculation and current thinking. As I said, I don't like getting into deep theory, even though it's a widely believed one within science pondering.

Maybe you just don't want to see the answer. Wink It's in the quotes just below. {Above}

Nope, I can't see the answer to the thing that I took too literally... Written in code?

That your problem then, not mine. So why are you annoying me with it? I'm not annoying with my problems about atheism either.

Feel free, perhaps you have some actual evidence against Atheism. Oh you believe it's a religion right? Well I spell Christianity with a big "C".

Time is the only limit of eternity (as I said above). If God created time, he set a limit. If he was existing outside of this limit he "always existed". Simple as that. I already said, it doesn't have to be a personal one. I don't know what or who God is.

If you can state blasphemy like Yahweh may not be your god, then you really have little faith in Christianity. It almost sounds like you don't know what you believe in.

Normal Christians are short-sighted. Read the part before for the rest. And I think if there was no time and space, there is nothing to remember back, since remembering is something that is only possible within time. You can't remember this moment right now or something that hasn't happened yet.

Yeah, that was one of my  question/answers .

Hahahahahahahahahahaha! That's a good one. What is "god" by definition to you?!

Non-existent.

Then it's pointless. If there is not goal to reach, it's pointless to go towards it, since... well, there is nothing you could go towards to... And yeah, you have money, you couldn't care less.

And whoopdey-doo, another cheap shot . It's funny how all Christians share the view that we Atheists have no reason to live

Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1) - Cite This Source
na·ive      /n??iv/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[nah-eev] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–adjective
1.   having or showing unaffected simplicity of nature or absence of artificiality; unsophisticated; ingenuous.
2.   having or showing a lack of experience, judgment, or information; credulous: She's so naive she believes       everything she reads. He has a very naive attitude toward politics.

God is the definition of origin, he isn't necessary to explain origin. Religion is used to bring origin closer, science to explain it. Well, we didn't get so far with science so far, lol!

Right, who was that last part said to?

It's already been said that god isn't fit for all subjects, just because you have a point of view doesn't mean that your not coming off as ^^^^^^.

Who created the parallel universes then? If parallel universes just start to exist by "splitting up" from an already existent universe, the allover energy is doubled. Again, non-sense. Well, on the other hand, God is supposed to be omnipotent. O_o If he IS energy, I guess he can do whatever he wants if he wants, etc.

Again, making up explanations of your own to make science sound stupid doesn't give god anymore plausibility. Omnipotence can't of all ways existed, scientific fact. Complex organisms don't "just happen"...

Ok, one more time: I DO NOT KNOW WHAT GOD IS, I DO NOT KNOW HOW GOD DID IT.

Yeah, then why are you debating it?

Creator is God, no matter who Creator is. An alien can't be God, because the alien was created by God as well.

Yeah, the word Alien has multiple meanings. Even Yahweh is an alien, Mexicans too ^.~ 

There is/was one universal God. Everything has a start and an ending within time. Since time had to have a start as well, there has to be something outside of time that actually "started" time. Since God is outside of time, he can't "end".

Actually I said that in my previous post, and if your worshiping the actual beginning, then your worshiping something with absolutely no intelligence and you may as well worship a brick wall. After all, I'm sure you look down on Pagans who worshiped the sun, all you would be doing is praying to something bigger.

What, you afraid of Satan? Yes, then it's easier not to believe in God as well. Yeah, I guess you're just weak in faith, just like you said.
In my case I am more afraid to what would happen if there is a God and I let my just human mind let me guide the wrong way. I'll rather stick to the idea, since I like it more anyway. If you would know my true psychological state, you would know that's the only thing to keep me alive...

It's funny how Christians think that everybody else in the world secretly knows deep down in side them that Christianity is the true faith and that they're living a lie.
 

No, I said "It was a translation mistake.". You said "Yes, because he didn't exist. *wink*" Those were your words. If you're clearing it up here, fine, but don't expect me to interprete sentences with quite a double meaning like you meant them.

I never tried to hide my intentions, but you certainly tried to justify yours.

I said "It was a translation mistake.". How was I first attacking your belief?!

You also said that Jesus existed and that people should need no evidence past the bible. That's attacking the very core of my belief.

And you just said, Atheism is belief.

Yes, a belief based on evidence. Belief & faith = not the same.

Defending my faith doesn't include proving you wrong. I'm not intending in proving your wrong, I'm intending in defending my faith.

I'm afraid defending your faith, and calling me a liar really has no difference. Have faith, I don't care, just don't claim it as fact unless you have something to back it with. Your religion is entering sciences territory, not the other way around.

Currently yes, you are. You're doing both, lol. Just like I could have just ignored your statement, you could have ignored mine first, since I was posting first merely stating a fact.

You posted a fact..? Don't tell me you edited one of your old posts again.

12 men who actually WERE

Fact ?_? Oh right, your bible says it, lol

Quote from: Blizzard on Today at 01:55:52 PM
Or let me rephrase it, since you believe he never existed.
12 men making up a lie and giving their lives for it? 12 men who have never met before? Those 12 men are not the same as one who just HEARD of Jesus, even if they made it up. That means whether there was a Jesus or not, those 12 guys DID know the truth behind it.

Yeah, he was saying you have no evidence that those twelve men existed.

Yes. Everything is possible. I seriously hope it's not true, since I find the thought of a machine feeding upon my energy just ew, but it can be true.

That's the good thing about not entertaining ideas that lack in evidence. We don't believe they existed either, they have the same problem as Jesus.

Hey, guess what? I can get into my bed without being frightened of monsters underneath... ^.~

No, it's logic. You can be stupid like a brick and yet understand it. It's not my fault, that I have more intellect than other people. It's a curse, not a bless. I have to live with it, you don't. Be happy.
If I could have chosen, I would have chosen to be normal, like everybody else.

Wow~

She said "this", I answered "that". Making up an explanation is very different from coming to a conclusion. Wink That above is a conclusion, not an explanation.

A conclusion based on a wild imagination.

This is what Christianity is teaching: Life has a sense, don't throw it away, yours or the lives of anybody else.

*Shock*, do you actually think your faith is the only thing that can teach morality..?

Morals are made by man, not religion. If you don't believe that: I doubt it was the Christian Churches who changed the notion that killing a man who trespasses is just. An idea of morality from the bible, no?

State fixed that little "doozy"...

You misunderstood. I meant religion isn't there to explain "HOW", but to say "YES, THERE'S AN ORIGIN.".

Wow, something we agree on. Religion hands out empty answers to the hard questions in life. But hey, it still gives you that warm fuzzy feeling inside, so what's it matter..?

I don't blame you. I wish I wouldn't have to waste my time typing this, but I'm just somebody who doesn't like it if somebody else spits on him for what he is. =/

This isn't an attack on you Blizzard, I certainly don't get personally offend when you go on the offensive to my beliefs. This is a debate, this is what debate involves.

I am afraid that Jesus is really a real person. First, There has been more music, books, art and hate crimes against Jesus than any person in history.

A good story is still just that. If Jesus didn't exist, and oh let's say Robin Hood was next in slide to "most famous", would you be believing in him..?

Yo don't hate some body if he is not real.

I hate that guy from Star Trek Next Generations who has that stupid eye, visor thing.

Second there is more than Just the Bible that talks about Jesus. I don't believe in the Koran as I think it has the wrong beliefs but it mentions Jesus and so does other philosophers and writers of that day.

You do realise the Koran is completely based of the old testament of the bible..? Also they don't believe in your Jesus, they believe in a separate version of him. In fact, I could say that in their P.O.V. your Jesus never existed, but they still hate him for belittling their faith.

@Snail: Lol.

God is an infinite andan all powerful being the reason that we can't comprehend how infinite he really is is because it is beyond our comprehension.

Great answer little Christian

You do realise the Koran is completely based of the old testament of the bible..? Also they don't believe in your Jesus, they believe in a separate version of him. In fact, I could say that in their P.O.V. your Jesus never existed, but they still hate him for belittling their faith.
@ Saucy
Even you just admitted that they know of Him and yes I know that they hate him and it is a different version. The mutated the bible and through in there own doctrine pretty much. They mention him as a prophet which is both wrong and right. He was sent to sacrifice himself not to be a full fledged prophetbut the way his ministry is it does have a lot of prophetic items in there that are true or will become true

You do realise the Koran is completely based of the old testament of the bible..? Also they don't believe in your Jesus, they believe in a separate version of him. In fact, I could say that in their P.O.V. your Jesus never existed, but they still hate him for belittling their faith.

loling. The Koran is believed to be the EXACT words of god send to Mohammad the last prophet of god. The koran does believe in Jesus, just not as a SON of god and in no WAY AT ALL does it HATE or do I HATE Jesus.

i know that and i did not say that the koran said that he is th son of GOD

My bad, scratch that bit. Edit: {That was meant as subtle sarcasm, what I said was correct as showed bellow}

I just naturally assumed that because of that little thing called the holy crusades, both parties had to have had some sort of grudge.

Also, just my feelings here, but going that they say he is not the son of god, that shows a different account to the Christian Jesus, a different Jesus, as said.

Muslims don't respect the Christian belief that Jesus was the son of god, that may not be hate in your definition, but it's calling their religion completely fraudulent, so I guess it really depends on your definition of the word. Edit: They also teach that he is false in his claims of godness.

I also don't remember saying Muslims "teach the hatred of Jesus".

I would also have assume that it is believed to be the exact word of god, as in most religions.

Sorry I guess we are both at fault I was assuming that since Christians have Christ as thier holy figure then the Muslims would hate Christ as well I mean it makes since. Also if you have ever read much of the Koran then alot of the parables make no since and thier is contracting articles everywhere. Acually thier is a book that I am thinking it is called prophet of Doom and it shows you stuff like that in the Koran. You have to order it off onling though because major retailers won't have it in stock as they think it is offencive to that minority.

prophet of Doom, Yes I have heard of that book as well as seen it. garbage IMO. Not saying that everyone has their own rights to do/write w/e they wany its just the items from that my dad has told me about that book completly twist and change the meaning of the words in teh Quran to make it sound like a book of the terroirst.

Holy crap, i've been away for 3 days and no one notices *MANLY CRYING* Oh well, heres my imput. jesus = Religiness = Belive
if lacking belivingness means there is no god nor jesus then
jesus = nothing but lies and myth without belivingness

I'm posting here ONCE and only ONCE.

Thor > Jesus


/thread

Science > Thor > Jesus

Holy crap, i've been away for 3 days and no one notices *MANLY CRYING* Oh well, heres my imput. jesus = Religiness = Belive
if lacking belivingness means there is no god nor jesus then
jesus = nothing but lies and myth without belivingness

It generally helps people comprehend your posts better when you don't make up words.

What I don't understand is why people still bother to argue about this shit.

Remember that this board is predominantly young teenagers, and those that have grown up being taught a religion aren't quite at the point where they've begun to think for themselves, and then they read posts from other members here who put down their beliefs and they can't handle it and feel the need to fight for their beliefs, completely ignoring all common sense and logic, and the most important part: facts.


Phew, what a long sentence.

Yeah, that's why we have to show them they're right/wrong, since we're "more" experienced. xD

And the ones debating that it's "just faith"...? Christians, that's right.

There's nothing to debate about, I don't define the borderlines of what Christians believe, I'll debate it though, so I really don't see were these people get of telling me the definitions of what I believe.
Debate it, feel free,  but just think of this: Would Christians take with any seriousness if I proclaimed that they are actually worshiping Ganesh..? 

Also, Wiki is one of the most unreliable source you can get, it has a lot of info, and I'm sure some of it's correct but it's all publicly donated and I doubt the moderators can really make the big decisions.

And who are you to know if Atheism IS a faith or not?

First off the second coming of Jesus has nothing to do with the "Real World". This might only mean, we're all gonna die someday. I don't know. In the Bible he said something like we would recognise it's him and stuff. My best guess is to just trust in those words. Maybe it even means something completely different. Maybe the second coming of Jesus is individual for every person. Could it be death then and meeting him? I don't know.

Just keep in mind that I have read the bible too... I also know what Christians believe in, but those are some fine conspiracies you have going for you.

The Bible is written in metaphors.

Not to repeat but:
I'm sorry, but who said they existed?
I can show you a story written by other people that I made up the other day.

4 different versions of the same story: The New Testament. I think this is EVIDENCE enough to show you they DID exist.

I wasn't "trying", I spoke. Buddhism has strong belief in the occult, in my mind there is no difference between it and other supernatural following "faiths".

And yes, I am quite aware the beliefs of Buddhist. Did you know that a certain branch of Buddhism believes Buddha himself, to be god? Last time I checked, Christianity was just a "branch"...

What's so hard to understand on this part:

no need to reply to this part.

I said, I UNDERSTOOD what you meant.
Adn Christianity can't be a branch or Buddism, because Christianty was there before Buddism. What you are saying doesn't make sense. It can't even be a "branch".

You just said, you would admit all possibilities. =P

And you just avoided the one question I wanted answered, it's not a trick, it's simply showing you how Atheist think. In our minds, god is just another story being told to bring a charade of happiness.

I DO understand how Athesist think and I tolerate it. You have the right to believe and think all you want, I'm not judging you. Who said it's a charade? I never saw fake happiness on the face of a true believer. Actually I have seen to much fake happiness on the face of non-believers... It's easy to say "There's not God.", it's way harder to say "There is a God."

As I said, you can't disprove a negative, but I certainly bet you could show more evidence of your existence to people then there is of Jesus.

Want some evidence? Take a photo of yourself, it may not prove you exist, but it is still evidence showing you did. And given that your speaking from some side of insanity, you certainly can't dismiss it is a figment of your mind, after all, your coming from insanity.

But just remember: You can't disprove a negative so you can't prove it's "not" evidence, but you have evidence it itself exists...

Interesting view. Well, if everything is just Martix, then the photo is no evidence that I exist. xD

I am only trying to say it's hard to 100% prove the past. Sure, you can give an ammount number of evidence, but that doesn't make it 100% fact. And there are not only 12 guys who witnessed Jesus.

No you can't, but you have provided no verified evidence, which leads me to make a certain claim based on lack of evidence , and yes, lack of evidence is evidence that something doesn't exists. As I see it, we're one up.

Verified evidence is proof and no evidence anymore. If somebody gets killed and the murderer's weapon is found with finger prints, that doesn't make the guy who left the fingerprints to the murderer. Even if it's very good evidence, it's not proof. NOW we're one up.

There are none, that's what I was trying to say. No "record" except for the Bible.

Then that's all you have to base your claims..? Koran doesn't count...

Two different document mentioning the same person and it DOESN'T count? Then tell me why.

Why is it obvious that it always existed. You want to say time and space have always existed? Sorry, but this doesn't make sense at all. Especially because time is "going only into one direction" and never repeats. Time and space don't exist for eternity. Time is a limitation of eternity, therefore it can't be eternal.

Why would it make sense..? I didn't say that. What I said however is speculation, I'll be speculation made with logical thinking and from a scientific mind... But your wrong about the time thing, or at least unfounded... 

Timeflow limits eternity. Isn't it obvious? Eternity means forever, time can't be forever as it isn't continous, time is quantized. Time is just like space consisting out of many very small piece or units of time if you will.

The one thing that is agreed upon, is the most simple of what I said, which is energy has no beginning, making it timeless, that timeless thing, being incredibly simple. That is the most likely origin based on speculation and current thinking. As I said, I don't like getting into deep theory, even though it's a widely believed one within science pondering.

I know. It makes sense to me and I am able to accept it until I get provided with a better answer.

Maybe you just don't want to see the answer. Wink It's in the quotes just below. {Above}

Nope, I can't see the answer to the thing that I took too literally... Written in code?

I was talking about the part why I believe in God. (-_-)

That your problem then, not mine. So why are you annoying me with it? I'm not annoying with my problems about atheism either.

Feel free, perhaps you have some actual evidence against Atheism. Oh you believe it's a religion right? Well I spell Christianity with a big "C".

Sorry, it's a typo, you should have seen from my other posts that I tend to type Atheism with a cap. As I said, I'm not trying to prove anybody wrong here as I don't know if Atheism really is wrong. Remember when I told you, I could be easily wrong and I don't want people to get screwed, just because I was too ignorant to consider this possibility?

Time is the only limit of eternity (as I said above). If God created time, he set a limit. If he was existing outside of this limit he "always existed". Simple as that. I already said, it doesn't have to be a personal one. I don't know what or who God is.

If you can state blasphemy like Yahweh may not be your god, then you really have little faith in Christianity. It almost sounds like you don't know what you believe in.

Christianity, Islam, etc. We all believe in the same God, but in different ways. But the thing is that we also have different pictures of God. Who are we to understand what God really is?! The Bible is written in metaphors, telling us God is Love, you should be familiar with that. It's a metaphor. How could a simple man like me understand what God is?! Yahweh is nothing, but a mere name just like Allah. It's God and that is all that counts. You're seeing weekness in faith where none is, Saucy.

Normal Christians are short-sighted. Read the part before for the rest. And I think if there was no time and space, there is nothing to remember back, since remembering is something that is only possible within time. You can't remember this moment right now or something that hasn't happened yet.

Yeah, that was one of my  question/answers .

I said, I'm trying not to be short-sighted. What I said above does pretty much sense to me. And that's why I don't know what God is. I just don't know what, how, etc.

Hahahahahahahahahahaha! That's a good one. What is "god" by definition to you?!

Non-existent.

I asked you for the definition, not for interpretion of the definition.

And whoopdey-doo, another cheap shot . It's funny how all Christians share the view that we Atheists have no reason to live

Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1) - Cite This Source
na·ive      /n??iv/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[nah-eev] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–adjective
1.   having or showing unaffected simplicity of nature or absence of artificiality; unsophisticated; ingenuous.
2.   having or showing a lack of experience, judgment, or information; credulous: She's so naive she believes       everything she reads. He has a very naive attitude toward politics.

Cheap try by you, not me. I never said you have no REASON to live, I said in the end there is no point in life. You're gonna die anyway. Memories of you will fade away. It will be as if you never existed. Time will consume you, eternity will destroy you.

God is the definition of origin, he isn't necessary to explain origin. Religion is used to bring origin closer, science to explain it. Well, we didn't get so far with science so far, lol!

Right, who was that last part said to?

It's already been said that god isn't fit for all subjects, just because you have a point of view doesn't mean that your not coming off as ^^^^^^.

Why am I coming off as ass? What have I said there that's not factual? Science has done a lot, I am not denying it. I am merely stating that science has done little in comparison what is left to do.

Who created the parallel universes then? If parallel universes just start to exist by "splitting up" from an already existent universe, the allover energy is doubled. Again, non-sense. Well, on the other hand, God is supposed to be omnipotent. O_o If he IS energy, I guess he can do whatever he wants if he wants, etc.

Again, making up explanations of your own to make science sound stupid doesn't give god anymore plausibility. Omnipotence can't of all ways existed, scientific fact. Complex organisms don't "just happen"...

"Just happen" is a term defined within time. I haven't made up any explanation, energy IS omnipotent. Everything is yet another form energy.

Ok, one more time: I DO NOT KNOW WHAT GOD IS, I DO NOT KNOW HOW GOD DID IT.

Yeah, then why are you debating it?

I am not debating it, I am merely stating the few conclusions I have come to. It's you who are saying all the time "It's void".

Creator is God, no matter who Creator is. An alien can't be God, because the alien was created by God as well.

Yeah, the word Alien has multiple meanings. Even Yahweh is an alien, Mexicans too ^.~

Alien means "outsider" or "foreign". =/ God is no outsider, he's rather an insider. And he doesn't seem to be foreign to me. =/

Actually I said that in my previous post, and if your worshiping the actual beginning, then your worshiping something with absolutely no intelligence and you may as well worship a brick wall. After all, I'm sure you look down on Pagans who worshiped the sun, all you would be doing is praying to something bigger.

"Universal/Ultimate" isn't just "something bigger". It's everything.

What, you afraid of Satan? Yes, then it's easier not to believe in God as well. Yeah, I guess you're just weak in faith, just like you said.
In my case I am more afraid to what would happen if there is a God and I let my just human mind let me guide the wrong way. I'll rather stick to the idea, since I like it more anyway. If you would know my true psychological state, you would know that's the only thing to keep me alive...

It's funny how Christians think that everybody else in the world secretly knows deep down in side them that Christianity is the true faith and that they're living a lie.

I'm not thinking this and I never said this. How can somebody who never heard of Christianity know that Christianity is the true faith?! I merely stated it's easier to run from your problems in a metaphor. You just have to take everything literaly, don't you?
 

No, I said "It was a translation mistake.". You said "Yes, because he didn't exist. *wink*" Those were your words. If you're clearing it up here, fine, but don't expect me to interprete sentences with quite a double meaning like you meant them.

I never tried to hide my intentions, but you certainly tried to justify yours.

Yes, because you were attaking my faith. That it happens to be a part of my religion is just "coincidence". I could care less if you would mock anything else that's not par tof my faith. An example is politics. I have my very own views on it, but I don't share it as nobody has attacked my view so far.

I said "It was a translation mistake.". How was I first attacking your belief?!

You also said that Jesus existed and that people should need no evidence past the bible. That's attacking the very core of my belief.

I never said Jesus existed, don't put words in my mouth. Where do you see in the sentence "It was a translation mistake." the words "Jesus was real."?! It IS a translation mistake regardless if the Bible is fact or not.

Yes, a belief based on evidence. Belief & faith = not the same.

Religion & faith = not the same*

Defending my faith doesn't include proving you wrong. I'm not intending in proving your wrong, I'm intending in defending my faith.

I'm afraid defending your faith, and calling me a liar really has no difference. Have faith, I don't care, just don't claim it as fact unless you have something to back it with. Your religion is entering sciences territory, not the other way around.

I am calling you a liar, because you are saying I was first attacking you, which isn't true. Read the part above for the rest.
And you can' be lying if you don't know the truth yourself.

Currently yes, you are. You're doing both, lol. Just like I could have just ignored your statement, you could have ignored mine first, since I was posting first merely stating a fact.

You posted a fact..? Don't tell me you edited one of your old posts again.

Cute. Is that what you do? Editing older posts of yours? Just take a look. Every post has a log of the last edit. There is NO edit in the posts at the beginning of the topic. At least not after the date I have posted what you quoted.

Yeah, he was saying you have no evidence that those twelve men existed.

Who wrote the New Testament again? There is your "evidence". You said, you only need evidence to believe in something, I think the most printed book in the world should be evidence enough.

Hey, guess what? I can get into my bed without being frightened of monsters underneath... ^.~

There are not monster under my bed. I've taken a look. Have you?

No, it's logic. You can be stupid like a brick and yet understand it. It's not my fault, that I have more intellect than other people. It's a curse, not a bless. I have to live with it, you don't. Be happy.
If I could have chosen, I would have chosen to be normal, like everybody else.

Wow~

That's mean. =/ You're mocking me for being different.

She said "this", I answered "that". Making up an explanation is very different from coming to a conclusion. Wink That above is a conclusion, not an explanation.

A conclusion based on a wild imagination.

Energy, space and time are no imagination.

This is what Christianity is teaching: Life has a sense, don't throw it away, yours or the lives of anybody else.

*Shock*, do you actually think your faith is the only thing that can teach morality..?

Of course not. But would you know about morality if nobody ever told you there is something like morality?

Morals are made by man, not religion. If you don't believe that: I doubt it was the Christian Churches who changed the notion that killing a man who trespasses is just. An idea of morality from the bible, no?

State fixed that little "doozy"...

Yes, they are made by religion. Religion is made by man. Faith from which all of this comes isn't.

You misunderstood. I meant religion isn't there to explain "HOW", but to say "YES, THERE'S AN ORIGIN.".

Wow, something we agree on. Religion hands out empty answers to the hard questions in life. But hey, it still gives you that warm fuzzy feeling inside, so what's it matter..?

It's like telling a child in a poor family "It's possible. You can have a better life. Sorry, I have no idea how, but it's possible.". Hope.

I don't blame you. I wish I wouldn't have to waste my time typing this, but I'm just somebody who doesn't like it if somebody else spits on him for what he is. =/

This isn't an attack on you Blizzard, I certainly don't get personally offend when you go on the offensive to my beliefs. This is a debate, this is what debate involves.

I said what I think about this  few parts above already.

Yo don't hate some body if he is not real.

I hate that guy from Star Trek Next Generations who has that stupid eye, visor thing.

I pity you.

but they still hate him for belittling their faith.

Muslims think of Jesus as an important prophet, not a the Son of God.

God is an infinite andan all powerful being the reason that we can't comprehend how infinite he really is is because it is beyond our comprehension.

Great answer little Christian

Weak. Just because you can't touch it, doesn't mean it's not there.

Well, I'll be leaving this topic now. Sorry if I offended anybody =p. I have a personal dislike of religion, having originally been brought up in one.

No questions from me really. My parents both converted before I was born and I was brought up in it. At first I remember accepting it (hey, you're a kid, your parents say something is true, you tend to accept it as fact), but as time went on I became more doubtful. I never told anybody, even my best friends about it. I went to church in embarassment.

Eventually I made up my mind, and I simply approached my parents and explained that I thought it (and any religion) was a bunch of laughable rubbish. Though, not in those words of course =p.

They're ok with it really. They don't seem to mind my casual drinking every now and then or the fact that I've done certain things witha few lucky ladies, so.

I will suggest you take the time to read the book I attached HERE.



^lol, me



^ lol, unfortunately seems like Tsuno and Blizzard =(

Remember that this board is predominantly young teenagers, and those that have grown up being taught a religion aren't quite at the point where they've begun to think for themselves, and then they read posts from other members here who put down their beliefs and they can't handle it and feel the need to fight for their beliefs, completely ignoring all common sense and logic, and the most important part: facts.

But this makes no sense, because both DS and Blizzard are 18+.

I'm sorry, but the answer is....
because shit floats.

This is EXACTLY what I am talking about! Intolerance! And then you criticize Christians and thier beliefs. Would you like to be offended and said that you're utterly wrong, and that what you believe is not correct? What if you're offended for being atheist? Are you going to stay calm or not feel offended? If so, congratulations, for it means that you don't care for what other people say. But otherwise, stop offending other people's points of view and grow up.

Well, lets see your god come down from the heavens and change me.  I don't think thats going to happen anytime soon.  How are you going to offend me because I am atheist?  "That guy you don't beleive in is not real!"?   But I do need to grow up.

Exactly the same way you offend others. Contradicting them, or trashing their opinions. Simple like that. Plus, I don't need to laugh at atheists, for it's their problem if they want to believe that there is nothing but matter. I don't need to offend them, for I have nothing to gain from it.

Do you gain something from offending Christians? Other than perhaps self-satisfaction. How long does the satisfaction last or how this satisfaction makes you happier, I do not know. It would be you who is supposed to tell me if you want to.

Then again, all I want is that people can finally respect each other someday soon. Forget about damn religious beliefs. I am talking about every war in this world. Internal and external wars. Tragedies and suffering. Almost %100 of them are due to the same thing: intolerance.