The RPG Maker Resource Kit
Other Game Creation => Game Creation General Chat => Topic started by: Jaden on November 12, 2014, 08:14:43 PM
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Does anyone else think it's insanely frustrating to work on something so hard, for so long (in my case, 3 years), only for it to be totally ignored, simply because it wasn't made by a huge company, or at least by someone popular in the community?
I've recently been dealing with this same frustration. I've improved my project so much since the last version of it, and people won't even look at it (even family/friends). I mean, what am I, invisible? Pointless? Give me a break!
At this point, I've shown as much as I can, to the best ability that I can (given that I have no money, no team, and practically no support in the making of my game), and have done more with practically nothing than most people could, and yet still, nothing.
Just to put things in perspective from my end; 2 weeks, 1 download. And I'm pretty sure that was a download from someone that I know personally, who couldn't even play it because they're on ubuntu. Keeping in mind, my project has been in development for 3 years, between version changes (and all the other crap that everyday life brings with it).
It doesn't scream "finish me" so much anymore since the demo has no apparent appeal to people.
I recently added a video to show the gameplay, but I don't think it'll help at this point.
It's not bad, it's just ignored.
So, again, does anyone else find this type of thing frustrating?
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I don't make games, but I do compose music. Really your question can apply to anything people create and not just RPG Maker games, which is why I'm responding.
I don't get frustrated, and to me it's kind of silly to do so. You can't make something with the expectation that people should like it or even pay attention to it. Family and friends should be supportive early on when you're trying to become good at something, whether it be art, sports, or making games, so that does suck for you. However, I don't know your age and I mean no disrespect by this, if you're a teenager (or really even someone in their early 20s) most people, even family and friends, are probably rolling their mental eyes at the idea that you're making a game. Because the idea of someone really young like that making a game, no matter how seriously they take it, just seems silly to most people.
Now obviously you've put some effort into what you're doing. You've worked on it for 3 years which at least takes dedication, no matter what your age is. Even if your game sucks, that's a lot of work to put into something. But actually, after typing that I looked at your game's thread and I'm starting to understand. You've already had this problem! You posted once and then nothing for over a month. That's not how you go about doing anything. Again, you can't go into something with the expectation that people should automatically just take an interest or pay attention. Sometimes projects just get overlooked, so be persistent. If no one posts, at least show that you're still working on the project. Give updates! Do something to get the attention and interest of people! Don't make posts complaining that no one is paying attention to you, because that just makes no one want to pay attention to you.
To relate from personal experience, there have been a lot of times where I've written a piece of music and shared it with people to only get little or even no response. Even here, where people are pretty familiar with my music by this point, I sometimes don't get much response to it.* It can be disheartening sometimes to work hard on something and not get back what you expected, or to see it go by without being noticed, but that's just how it goes sometimes. I don't hold it against anyone, because even though I think I'm good at what I do, I can't expect that everyone shares that opinion, and I certainly don't expect people to take time out of their day to listen to my silly music.
*However anytime I directly ask someone to listen to something I've written, they've always gladly done so, I just usually feel weird about doing that
I've been working on a project for, like you, 3 years now. Over 3 years of composing, rewriting, rewriting again, recording, saving money to record more, saving money to purchase instruments and sound libraries, rewriting, rewriting, rewriting, and trying to get as many people as I can to become aware of the project. That's hard to do! But even if only a handful of people end up listening to the finished product, let alone liking it, then that's great! I'm going into this fully expecting a mild response and only a few people that really enjoy it. But perhaps as time goes on more people will become aware and take a listen. At the end, at least I can be proud of what I've done because I did it well.
So, as a sort of tl;dr (though you really should read it all), you need to rethink what you're expecting from people. Give them something that shows what you're working on is worth their time. Make them interested. If you can't do that, or if you still think they should have to pay attention simply because you did something, then making games is probably not for you.
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I will write more, but for a quick note:
I agree with Halo. Don't give up.
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Where are you posting it? Hit multiple sites. Review other games on those sites. Put the download link in your sig. Definitely add video. Get someone to do a video review and then feature it in your post (I just embedded YuYu and crews review of Farmyard Chronicle (http://rpgmaker.net/games/6829/) on a different forum (http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/forums/showthread.php?16913-The-most-original-quot-Farm-quot-game-you-ve-ever-played) just yesterday). Use links in messages, like how I just sneakily did. :p I'm surprised this topic didn't have a link to your game! I mean, obviously you want people to play it, right? Put it out there, and put yourself out there too!
-flap
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Where are you posting it? Hit multiple sites. Review other games on those sites. Put the download link in your sig. Definitely add video. Get someone to do a video review and then feature it in your post (I just embedded YuYu and crews review of Farmyard Chronicle (http://rpgmaker.net/games/6829/) on a different forum (http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/forums/showthread.php?16913-The-most-original-quot-Farm-quot-game-you-ve-ever-played) just yesterday). Use links in messages, like how I just sneakily did. :p I'm surprised this topic didn't have a link to your game! I mean, obviously you want people to play it, right? Put it out there, and put yourself out there too!
-flap
These are things I meant to address in my previous post, too. All good ideas. You have to make it known that you have a project/demo, so advertise! Don't be obnoxious about it, of course, but flapbat's suggestions are all great. You can't just create a single thread on a single forum about your game and expect people to just know it exists. Interact with people, especially other developers. You may do this already, but post in other project threads. Give people feedback and they're likely to give you feedback as well.
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Everything Halo said is right.
It can suck if something you made doesn't get any or much attention, but at the end of the day, you should be making games because you enjoy the process and/or the content you're making. My first game back in 06 wasn't released on the internet and was only played by two friends in person, and one of them helped make it. Making it was the most enjoyable part. My goal wasn't to be recognized for my talents (the game was shit anyway); it was because making games was fun.
But we are human, and humans seek some amount of recognition. Maybe if your friends won't play your game and they're aware of it, you need better friends? I mean, unless they don't play games. I've never had a scenario where I've asked a friend to play one of my games, check out my music or look at my art and had them refuse.
You also need to understand how oversaturated the market is with independent games right now. It's incredibly hard to get noticed. If you want people to play your game, you have to talk about it a lot on relevant outlets (the best time to do this is during development, because you have stuff to talk about) and make connections. If you search the web for "indie game marketing" you'll find some articles that explain this in detail.
You should also try making smaller games. You'll be less invested in these since you won't be pouring as much time into them individually, you'll be able to improve as a game developer faster by going through the process more often and you'll have more games for people to potentially notice.
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Where are you posting it? Hit multiple sites. Review other games on those sites. Put the download link in your sig. Definitely add video. Get someone to do a video review and then feature it in your post (I just embedded YuYu and crews review of Farmyard Chronicle (http://rpgmaker.net/games/6829/) on a different forum (http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/forums/showthread.php?16913-The-most-original-quot-Farm-quot-game-you-ve-ever-played) just yesterday). Use links in messages, like how I just sneakily did. :p I'm surprised this topic didn't have a link to your game! I mean, obviously you want people to play it, right? Put it out there, and put yourself out there too!
-flap
Lol I thought about linking it, but at the same time I felt that doing so would seem like I'm just whining. Though I hadn't thought about putting it in my signature (I have an old image right now, but I'll update it). I have put the project here on rmrk, as well as gdunlimited. I also had a link on facebook for friends and family, but it's untouched so I won't really bother with that one at this point. I might put it up on more sites like this though.
@Halo
I don't feel that I have the expectation of success, just the opposite normally. I just feel disappointed when it seems to always flicker and poof out. I always have the hope people would be interested, and in the end it's my own fault if people aren't seeing the project (it's the duty of the producer to show the consumer a product afterall). Maybe I'm just taking the downtime too seriously? I've always felt that a good reception (generally within a few weeks) was necessary for the project to really mean anything, but maybe I'm just taking it too personally.
I had a good laugh about the age stuff, and I agree doing it at that age would've been worse (I'm 29 now, which doesn't say much for me lol). My interest in creating games has always been a driving force behind my life, even back when I was 8 (NES was popular back then), but games have really evolved since then and it's hard to get into it when there are these huge amounts of people who prefer the new 3d, instead of 2d. Though my target audience is largely retro gamers.
@Bluntsword:
Indeed. I find myself still working on it even through my disappointment lol (which is good). Having put so much time and effort into it, it's something I'm going to hold onto until it's finished, and probably even further than that. I can't imagine letting it slip away now, for fact that it's taken as long as it has to do what I have.
Thanks everyone, for the words of encouragement. I'll do my best to keep negative thoughts out and focus only on the work, not so much the lack of interest lol.
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Everything Halo said is right.
It can suck if something you made doesn't get any or much attention, but at the end of the day, you should be making games because you enjoy the process and/or the content you're making. My first game back in 06 wasn't released on the internet and was only played by two friends in person, and one of them helped make it. Making it was the most enjoyable part. My goal wasn't to be recognized for my talents (the game was shit anyway); it was because making games was fun.
But we are human, and humans seek some amount of recognition. Maybe if your friends won't play your game and they're aware of it, you need better friends? I mean, unless they don't play games. I've never had a scenario where I've asked a friend to play one of my games, check out my music or look at my art and had them refuse.
You also need to understand how oversaturated the market is with independent games right now. It's incredibly hard to get noticed. If you want people to play your game, you have to talk about it a lot on relevant outlets (the best time to do this is during development, because you have stuff to talk about) and make connections. If you search the web for "indie game marketing" you'll find some articles that explain this in detail.
You should also try making smaller games. You'll be less invested in these since you won't be pouring as much time into them individually, you'll be able to improve as a game developer faster by going through the process more often and you'll have more games for people to potentially notice.
I thought about that too, normally I'll have smaller side projects going but I've put all those on hold in recent times to make more time for the project.
@Halo:
Again, right on the spot.
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it's hard to get into it when there are these huge amounts of people who prefer the new 3d, instead of 2d.
This isn't true. Most independent games are 2D, including the successful ones.
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@Halo
I don't feel that I have the expectation of success, just the opposite normally. I just feel disappointed when it seems to always flicker and poof out. I always have the hope people would be interested, and in the end it's my own fault if people aren't seeing the project (it's the duty of the producer to show the consumer a product afterall). Maybe I'm just taking the downtime too seriously? I've always felt that a good reception (generally within a few weeks) was necessary for the project to really mean anything, but maybe I'm just taking it too personally.
I had a good laugh about the age stuff, and I agree doing it at that age would've been worse (I'm 29 now, which doesn't say much for me lol). My interest in creating games has always been a driving force behind my life, even back when I was 8 (NES was popular back then), but games have really evolved since then and it's hard to get into it when there are these huge amounts of people who prefer the new 3d, instead of 2d. Though my target audience is largely retro gamers.
I'm 29 as well! The only reason I brought up the age thing is that in the game making community, most people are teenagers/young college students and commonly those are the ones that complain that they aren't getting the attention they "deserve" or whatever. Not that your post made you seem like a teenager or anything. I actually think this topic is good discussion on the subject because I imagine a lot of people feel the way you do.
It is disappointing when your work goes unnoticed when you try your best, even if what you've made may not be something all that great. A person still wants acknowledgement and, hopefully, critique and feedback to improve in the future. For a long time it bothered me when I wouldn't get that, and there were times when I wondered if I should even bother to continue writing music. But then I realized I needed to do more to attract attention to what I've done and that it's okay if there isn't feedback, among other things that don't really relate to game making so I won't bother elaborating on them here.
Just stick to it. If your approach isn't yielding the results you want, then it's time to try something new. I see you've already done that with at least advertising it in your sig. That's a good first step. Personally I would make it more eye-catching, though. A text signature is often overlooked on forums. A lot of times people will put the logo for their game in their signature, with a link in the image to take them to their thread. That works better. But if you don't have a logo yet, that works for now. Better than nothing at all, at any rate.
And yes, indie games are largely 2D. Retro gaming is popular right now. so a lot of indie games do that. Not to mention it's easier to make a 2D game than a 3D one.
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Alright, that does it. Inspired by this thread, I've added a photo and link to some of my games in my sig! That includes a cool game (http://rmrk.net/index.php?topic=49453.0) that I posted a couple months ago and only about three people have tried. I feel the frustration too! :p
-flap
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I, also, am twenty and nine.
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Damn it all. I'm 30... Ya'all are in for a mental grapple on your next birthday!
-flap
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I'm 21 :)
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You rock, irock. :-) Wanna trade ages?? Just for a week though. Be 30 is actually pretty cool!
-flap
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Agreed, this is a very good topic of discussion.
About text sig: Yeah, I should put an image in there. I've got one for one forum, I should be able to bring it over to this one as a placeholder until I can perfect a better one.
I think the only thing I really need to work on is getting the project noticed, and you guys have definitely helped in that regard. Thank you.
I wonder though, how many people get frustrated and abandon what may have been a good game. There's been a few times like that for me, but like I said before, I can't imagine not finishing it now lol. I mean, the project as a whole hasn't moved past dungeon 3 yet, even after all this time, but over that amount of time I've added so many good features, like real time and weather for instance. Because of additions like that, I feel like I've accomplished something in that time. Like I tell some who ask, "the longer it takes, the more it improves".
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Yep- agreed. From a game-making standpoint, though, for future projects you will probably find yourself doing more groundwork before diving straight into making the game in the editor. Game production flows much more smoothly if game mechanics are implemented first, followed by mapping and story. If you do try the main game in my sig, you'll see what I mean. I was able to make the entire game for the Game in a Week challenge. Of course, I was a day late and forgot to add a critical teleport tile that locked off 95% of the game, but the point is I was able to produce an almost entirely complete game in that short amount of time because I had a clear vision of what I was shooting for and developed all the game mechanics first and foremost.
Aaaaanyway, is that the link in your sig? Preach it! Now would be a good time to drop that bad boy on us.
-flap
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Yep- agreed. From a game-making standpoint, though, for future projects you will probably find yourself doing more groundwork before diving straight into making the game in the editor. Game production flows much more smoothly if game mechanics are implemented first, followed by mapping and story. If you do try the main game in my sig, you'll see what I mean. I was able to make the entire game for the Game in a Week challenge. Of course, I was a day late and forgot to add a critical teleport tile that locked off 95% of the game, but the point is I was able to produce an almost entirely complete game in that short amount of time because I had a clear vision of what I was shooting for and developed all the game mechanics first and foremost.
Aaaaanyway, is that the link in your sig? Preach it! Now would be a good time to drop that bad boy on us.
-flap
That's probably how I'll handle future releases, good tip.
Indeed it is, the link in my sig leads to the project page here on rmrk (I updated it so there's a clickable image).
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Ooh, how'd you make that image clickable??? I wants to do it too!
-flap
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I, also, am twenty and nine.
you of all people should know the proper syntax is nine and twenty
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I, also, am twenty and nine.
you of all people should know the proper syntax is nine and twenty
I repent.
Ooh, how'd you make that image clickable??? I wants to do it too!
-flap
[ url = urwebsite.com ] [ img ] image link here [ / img ] [ / url ]
Remove spaces. Make magic.
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I think the gist of it has already been arrived at, but my advice would be to stop wondering "why don't people like my game", and think more along the lines of "why isn't my game the kind of game that people like."
Take a look at some more popular projects. Take note of how they present their games and what makes them appealing.
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I don't even think I have anything to add that hasn't been said already, but I totally understand your struggle. I've spent 3-4 years of my life trying to find something stable to do with myself while really just wanting to drop the books and follow my heart down some crazy path of guaranteed struggle. Sometimes, we tend to get a little lost and discouraged, but remember why you're here in the first place: because you love making games, right? If you still enjoy what you're creating, that should matter first. Eventually, you could inspire others with that same passion for your project. :) Sometimes, you might have to take a break or try something new. Life is weird like that, I guess.
I also planned out a Mystery Review (http://rmrk.net/index.php?topic=49460.0) thing (that flapbat just reminded me of) that might help the little guys out, too. If I ever decide on a time to start it.
See? Advertisement. B)
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I also planned out a Mystery Review (http://rmrk.net/index.php?topic=49460.0) thing (that flapbat just reminded me of) that might help the little guys out, too when I totally make it happen full force with no holds barred!
^^Fixed that for you :-)
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Awww, shucks! :-) What can I say? I'm a go-getter.
...Unless I'm already go-getting a ton of other things that make it difficult to go-get other things (like that), but I think I could drop a couple plates because it sounds pretty fun. B)
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Don't take the lack of attention personally. It's not necessarily that people aren't interested, but rather...busy. A lot of us are in college, some are working, some are married with children and stuff. It's totally possible that no one even has time to download and play it. It would be wise to consider "peak" times of the year for your target audience. Look at how dead rmrk has been up until maybe last week. It shows that everyone is extremely busy, and would probably not be the best time for a release. Personally, I saw your topic but I didn't have time to really even read it. I mean, look, im posting at 3AM lol. I usually download a few rpg maker demos during winter break, so I'll give yours a chance then too.
Don't give up!
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I noticed that when you first released the game, you were quick to get frustrated that people weren't downloading it, even after 2 weeks. That's not a very long amount of time. I hope you'll not make a pattern of that. You seem like a passionate game-maker, but getting frustrated really turns people off.
I've currently got almost 6000 views of my project and less than 400 downloads... Believe me, it's frustrating. And that's for a game that has 3 "above average" reviews and has been featured on Jayisgames (http://jayisgames.com/archives/2014/10/farmyard_chronicle_directors_cut.php#). But don't give up! Just stay involved in game-making communities in ways outside your game, and then keep promoting. :-)
-flap
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I noticed that when you first released the game, you were quick to get frustrated that people weren't downloading it, even after 2 weeks. That's not a very long amount of time. I hope you'll not make a pattern of that. You seem like a passionate game-maker, but getting frustrated really turns people off.
Now that you mention it...I do remember glancing through that topic and had that exact same thought through my head. ._.
But a lot of it really is the time factor. I admit that I don't often play anyone's games, and when I do, it's usually because I have an excuse to - such as contests or GIAWs, etc. I really do want to have more time to actually play some of the games around here, though! I'd definitely like to help whip up some more events 'round here. I've got ideas, and I can come up with some more if the previous ones don't work. :)