(https://rmrk.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FTCW80Fl.jpg&hash=5a38df01f928703bc8ad83297c9cde28a67f6faa)
talked about it in IRC and y'all are fucking stupid for banning him and Zylos should lose his mod powers. RMRK has always had this sarcastic thing towards everyone, not just new members. its always been that way. some new members can't deal with it, some do. and the ones that do are the ones that become the new veterans. the ones who can't handle it we don't want here anyway.
what Irock posted wasn't even bad, I post worst on a daily basis usually. it made Halo (arguably one of the best mods) resign.
Anski acting like he matters and actually does anything around here.
this "no tolerance" outside of sewers is dumb, and if this is the way RMRK is going I probably won't stick around much longer but I'll probably hang in IRC.
"wah wah you're being mean 3 day ban :( also im a gigantic pussy"
The hypocrisy irritates me more than anything, but whatever, I've been in this debate for 2 days now, I'm done.
More up to date huge screenshot https://dl.dropbox.com/u/355574/Irock%27s%20been%20banned..png
What's done is done, no use arguing over it anymore. But we've lost 3 mods in a week and this is why if people are wondering.
Yes, and I just feel like the rest of RMRK deserves to know. I still love you all
Thank you for this.
That's about all that I have to say, but I at least wanted you guys to know that we appreciate the transparency here.
I forget you're here sometimes.
Quote from: Anski on February 13, 2013, 12:07:12 AM
I forget you're here sometimes.
Really? Could have sworn that everyone was always aware of every other member here at all times.
You have shattered my dreams. ;9
I turned in my omniscience for adamantium bones at comic-con last year.
The possibility of banning Irock should have been discussed in the Mod Hut between the other mods, not just one member (Zylos) taking it upon himself to just ban him outright instead of pursuing other options because he's having a powertrip. Trash the posts, make a topic in the mod hut to discuss it or just move the topic to the sewers. All of these are viable options, or you can even do all of them.
Some of you in that topic are taking it WAY too seriously. Have you forgotten how RMRK actually is? Every new member takes a shitkicking. It's how we weed out the crybabies.
Modern Algebra said something about having "veterans" being stupid, and a lot of us in IRC disagreed. "rmrk is special because we're a close-knit group of people", this is what Halo said in IRC and he's right. This doesn't mean we never let anyone else in to our special little "club" but you won't earn it easy and it won't be immediate. Modern, you only know half of RMRK. You're never in IRC and you miss out on a lot of things.
Anyway, this entire shit is fucking stupid. We've had WAY worse drama before this and we've always just dealt with it and not been prissy fucks about it. RMRK has never had a problem being the way it is and we shouldn't start changing it.
Roph pays to keep this site going and puts a ton of hardwork into it only to watch you retards do shit like this.
I think Irock crossed a line here. Dizturb3d isn't a bad guy, he just has problems with english because it's his second language.
I don't know if I agree that he deserves demoted, but I think a few days of a ban was at least warranted.
I'm sorry that I was a part of this, and that it ended up getting Irock banned. I didn't know that it ended up in another argument, and that it was the reason for the mods leaving their posts..
From my own experience, I never saw Irock as being serious towards me and I just tried to express what I meant with my statement. Sure he flamed me alot, and called me a liar for no reason, but I'm not sure why he felt so offended by my post. It seems like many people think I'm a hypocrite and a idiot for my posts, and I'm not sure why. Maybe It's because of my grammatical errors, or something else.. but all I can say is that I see myself as a friendly person, and It's not my intention to write stupid posts..
I joined here because of my interest in making an rpg, and to learn new things. I also joined here to meet new people with common interests, and to help others with the knowledge I have so far.
All I can say is that I'm sorry that it happened, but there's not much to do about it now. I'm also sorry if people look upon my posts as stupid and irritating. It's not my intention to grind people the wrong way, It's totally the opposite to be honest.
Quote from: Dizturb3d on February 13, 2013, 01:18:27 AM
I'm sorry that I was a part of this, and that it ended up getting Irock banned. I didn't know that it ended up in another argument, and that it was the reason for the mods leaving their posts..
From my own experience, I never saw Irock as being serious towards me and I just tried to express what I meant with my statement. Sure he flamed me alot, and called me a liar for no reason, but I'm not sure why he felt so offended by my post. It seems like many people think I'm a hypocrite and a idiot for my posts, and I'm not sure why. Maybe It's because of my grammatical errors, or something else.. but all I can say is that I see myself as a friendly person, and It's not my intention to write stupid posts..
I joined here because of my interest in making an rpg, and to learn new things. I also joined here to meet new people with common interests, and to help others with the knowledge I have so far.
All I can say is that I'm sorry that it happened, but there's not much to do about it now. I'm also sorry if people look upon my posts as stupid and irritating. It's not my intention to grind people the wrong way, It's totally the opposite to be honest.
I think it's unfortunate that you got caught in the middle of it because it wasn't so much about you but rather how the situation was handled. You shouldn't be sorry because you didn't actually "do" anything. In that thread I called you an idiot because I was irritated and that's what I tend to call people around her that I don't know and don't really pay attention to, but that doesn't make it right. Sorry about that.
I still think you're a hypocrite in that one post though xD
Happy early Valentines Day, you haters !! :mad:
i think irock is going to laugh at this
because lol
drama
Quote from: Dark_Metamorphosis on February 13, 2013, 01:18:27 AM
I'm sorry that I was a part of this, and that it ended up getting Irock banned. I didn't know that it ended up in another argument, and that it was the reason for the mods leaving their posts..
From my own experience, I never saw Irock as being serious towards me and I just tried to express what I meant with my statement. Sure he flamed me alot, and called me a liar for no reason, but I'm not sure why he felt so offended by my post. It seems like many people think I'm a hypocrite and a idiot for my posts, and I'm not sure why. Maybe It's because of my grammatical errors, or something else.. but all I can say is that I see myself as a friendly person, and It's not my intention to write stupid posts..
I joined here because of my interest in making an rpg, and to learn new things. I also joined here to meet new people with common interests, and to help others with the knowledge I have so far.
All I can say is that I'm sorry that it happened, but there's not much to do about it now. I'm also sorry if people look upon my posts as stupid and irritating. It's not my intention to grind people the wrong way, It's totally the opposite to be honest.
You're a good sport. Keep it up.
And I think this illustrates how silly this all is. When the "victim" himself wasn't taking any of it seriously, why would anyone else?
I have an idea.
The forum gave Zylos Moderator powers. He saw a need to moderate. That son of a dust-ball for doing what he thought was right...
And maybe my opinion is biased, but Irock does a LOT of unneeded douchebaggery to a lot of new people. He's angry, rude and downright mean. Sure, it's probably because of some issue he has IRL... but shit, dude. There's a way you treat people and a way you don't. He crosses that line a lot, and i don't understand how it can be seen as cute or funny, regardless of how gracefully the target took it.
One man's opinion.
Quote from: Dr_Firerain on February 13, 2013, 12:12:33 AM
Modern Algebra said something about having "veterans" being stupid, and a lot of us in IRC disagreed. "rmrk is special because we're a close-knit group of people", this is what Halo said in IRC and he's right. This doesn't mean we never let anyone else in to our special little "club" but you won't earn it easy and it won't be immediate. Modern, you only know half of RMRK. You're never in IRC and you miss out on a lot of things.
You're right that I don't see half of RMRK, but you also don't see the half of RMRK that I see either. The half who are excited about RPG Maker and excited to share their projects; the half who just want to create resources for people or help others with RM; the half that include young teenagers and children. Some of them are really talented, some of them make mistakes. But they're cool people and I like having them around. All I want to do is create a small zone of safety for them, where they could post their progress or their opinions and not be flamed and driven away because they misspelled a word, misplaced a comma, or had the "wrong" opinion about Wind Waker in HD. Maybe they aren't 'veteran' material, but that doesn't mean they should be randomly attacked.
I'm sorry that it came to this, and I'd hate to see you leave over it, just as I hate seeing Irock leave over it. But I'm not sorry for caring about the other members on this site.
And just to be clear, I agree that "a tight-knit group of people" is cool and special. I just don't see a necessary connection between being close-knit and flaming decent people randomly. If they're going to the Sewers and trying to gain acceptance, then by all means haze them. They're not entitled to be liked, and hazing in those circumstances is valuable in that it keeps out of the tight-knit group people who are annoying or who just don't fit in. But if they're just minding their own business, then I don't see what valuable function flaming them could have. I don't see how it makes a tight-knit group tighter to belittle people who are just doing their own thing. That is what Irock was doing. It is to that kind of behaviour, and only to that kind of behaviour, that I object.
lol@another topic of this.
Quote from: Grafikal on February 13, 2013, 04:43:22 AM
lol@another topic of this.
This attitude is why you aint a mod anymore ;]
What's the point of making this shit public? Just when people were getting done with the whole thing, someone thinks its a good idea to involve people who don't need to be involved. This seems more to me like a case of something finally happening here after it being dead for like 3 months.
This brought forth a much needed change.
Which was...?
Please take your time to read this.
RMRK is crashing and burning. It's not maturing no matter how much you may want it to. It's just mods suddenly white-knighting out of the blue and spoiling the community when it was never a problem in the first place. Yes, sometimes we do flame a little too much to newbies. It happens. I'm guilty of it, a lot of members are, including moderators. It's massive hypocrisy.
NAMKCOR said in IRC that he's no longer tolerating flaming outside The Sewers, and will begin handing out temporary bans if he sees it. This is not RMRK. People loved RMRK because of its laidback nature and lax rules. It's what made RMRK, RMRK. We don't have a million of very strictly enforced rules and you get banned for stepping out of line even a little bit. This is what I loved about it. The freedom to do and say what you please, within a reasonable boundary.
Again, Irock's post wasn't bad. There has been far worse posted over the years and no one has bat an eye at it. You people in the Mod Hut blew it out of proportion and caused this mess, it wasn't sharing it with the forum. It made moderators step down because they didn't like what RMRK was becoming. Them stepping down is a direct result of your actions in that thread. Halo said this in the Mod Hut, but if you really didn't care, you wouldn't have cared about a couple of one off posts Irock made.
Jules mentioned that RMRK is maturing and changing in IRC, when the majority of us are just fine with the way it is. It's a force changed by the staff and no one likes that. It pushes people away. Irock and I being two of those people. It's not like RMRK is absurdly immature in the first place. We manage intelligent discussion all the time but we also like to have fun, poke fun or sometimes have fun at the expense of others, we even direct it at each other. Sometimes we take it too far, but that's very rarely.
I dunno, if RMRK is suddenly going to become a stricter place to post in and countinues to change in the way it is a lot more members will begin to leave. Some of you, who had never previously had a problem with us hazing or overly criticizing newer members, even outside of the sewers, have suddenly done a 180 and suddenly we have all these white knights acting as if they are the pariahs of forum etiquette.
Despite being stated countless times already, I want to say although we do sometimes take it too far it helps weed out the bad seeds. There is still RPG Maker discussion that gets untouched by the rest of us that happens all the time, unless someone posts a bad game or is generally being dumb. This whole thing could have been avoided if a more logical approach was taken at Irock's posts.
This is stupid.
It's all a matter of maturity (like I can talk). Irock could afford to be more mature (so as not to tell Swedes to drink bleach, although I do know first-hand that he extends this offer to people of many nationalities), though still maintain his wacky mannerisms, and Zylos could've been more relaxes, as is the nature of RMRK. Hell, I had worse than that when I joined, nobody got banned for it, nobody got stripped of their titles or anything, everyone made up and I became a much, much better person because of it. The guy didn't even really care what Irock was saying, he knew he was being... whimsical, of sorts.
Irock went a little overboard, Zylos acted hastily. That's it. I'm with firerain, but I don't think that RMRK is going to break, at least if we all just remember that we're all still here because we're friends and the power of friendship is greater than the power of bleach. But friendship doesn't remove stains.
Actually, when it came down to it, Halo said he agreed with the ban, just not Irock loosing his Mod powers. So I reckon the thing that upsets you the most Firerain, that is the ban, is the thing that everyone (except sword and yuyu?) in that thread agreed with.
Either way, this is over and done. I've never forced anyone to mature, I just recognize it when I see it. I'll continue to mod the way I have always done. Which is just with my common sense.
Edit: Just reread this and realized it sounds aggresssive. I apologize for that. I should not post when I am not fully awake. lol
Friendship with Pacman has often left stains on Yuyubabe's clothes. :V
The forum is maturing. We are changing. When I joined, some of the mods were still living at home with their parents and now are on their own. Thats a big step, and with it comes a changeg veiw of the world. If for no other reason, our attitudes have changed over the past 4 years because 4 years have passed. Many RMRKers have crossed from children to adults in that time; to say that the forum isn't maturing or SHOULDN'T mature is IMO unreasonable.
With said maturation comes change in one's perceptions of whats okay to do and say and what isn't. If NAMKCOR says no flaming outside of the Sewers, for example, then that's that. He has changed his attitude towards that behaviour and he has the authority to make the rules, so there. I find it distressing that the forum being less of a flame field is turning some members off.
Of course, easy for me to say. I wasn't directly involved. I was neither the flamer nor the flamee, I do not hang in the MOD HUT, and I wasn't the one who decided that lines were crossed. I'm not the one who feels like their forum is falling apart or that they cannot participate in moderation because of what happened. I am free from the second guessing, the anger, the hurt and the guilt... but this is what we have to work with, and although we can use this as a weathervane to judge what we all want out of the forum from now on, decisions that cannot be rescinded have been made. Everyone involved to this point has made it clear that they feel pretty good about ther actions.
DM, you took it with grace. Irock, please don't leave. Firerain, please stay. Halo, please be my mod again. Zylos, don't feel bad about acting on your convictions.
I guess I should clear up the whole "I'm okay with the ban" thing, because both sides are using that to make their point.
I'm okay with it only because, well first of all, it's a 3 day ban, who gives a shit? But more importantly because MA told him to stop and Irock told him to suck his dick and continued to be a dushbag. I don't think Irock went too far with what he was saying to that guy whose name I still can't remember because he changed it. Some people act like he was saying things that were hateful and cruel beyond which RMRK has ever seen, which is just a load of crap. It's an excuse to justify what happened.
I still feel there were better alternative courses of action, but the ban really isn't a big deal. Especially if Irock didn't think so and felt he deserved it. Everything else is too much.
When I first posted in that mod thread, I didn't expect things to blow up like they did. I hated it because I was suddenly in a debate against my friends (some of whom took it personally) and things started getting heated outside of that thread and I never wanted that to happen. I'm glad it did now, though. This is something that needs to be discussed because there are a lot of people that hold very different and very strong beliefs about this. RMRK is more than just its staff and this is an important issue, regardless of how apathetic some of them are about this whole thing.
I'm still not 100% sure on my decision to out this to the public community. I feel as though a decision was made that required more insight than it was given, and I think the entire thing has made what's left of the forum stronger. I respect both sides and I don't find anyone to be completely at fault. That being said, a lot less drama would've been involved had I've just let it stay in the mod hut.
My actions have always been a result of my love for RMRK, not for my personal relationships with certain members. I stand by my resignation as I feel we need to return to a time where positions of power are reserved for responsible members of the community and not just the respected veterans. I've been here for nearly 8 years (which is 40% of my life) and this place and its people mean a lot to me. I still intend to stick around and do whatever I can to keep this place afloat, but I don't think a position of power is required for that.
I've noticed a big change in the staff since this whole ordeal started, and I apologize to those that have been demoted as a result of this. I have however stated my opinion that we should have a much smaller and more responsible staff and I have made my nominations for each position. I urge those who are still in power that don't need it to also resign, but I leave that at your own discretion.
I'd also like to apologize to everyone for bringing this out in the open, but I stand by my decision and I think it'll do us good in the long run.
To those we've lost, farewell and I love you.
To the rest of you, let's make RMRK a better place.
Modern Algebra - I've always trusted your judgement and I always will, I know your decision wasn't an easy one and I respect your ability to make it. I agree with Irock that you are detached from the community, but just from us awful Sewers folks. You're great and I hope this doesn't affect your judgement in the future.
Zylos - I don't agree with the haste of your decision nor the severity, but I respect your right to defend yourself for doing what you thought was right. I'm also glad that you have decided to wear the badge again, as I do think you're fit for the position.
Irock - You've got shit luck. I'm sorry it ended like this, brother. You're one of my favorite members and it sucks to see you go, but I talk to you more outside of this forum anyways.
Firerain - I could say the same thing I said for Irock, but you're my partner in crossing the line. How am I supposed to get away with the shit I do now that you're gone?
Halo - Thanks for joining me in resignation, you voiced my opinion perfectly and I would've felt pretty silly had you not been around. We both joined around the same time and I feel like we both have the same view on what RMRK is, I hope you stick around for good.
Anski - Come back for good. We need you to be better informed at times like these because you've got a good head on your shoulders and it doesn't hurt to have another good opinion around.
Roph - I've always been confused by your complacency in the community, but this time you stepped up and handled it all perfectly. I really don't think you get the credit you deserve for running this place. Keep on keeping on.
Everything that can come of this has already happened, I'm locking this thread so we can get past this and bounce back.
RMRK has gotten stale as of late and I fear we won't be around for much longer if we continue at this pace. We've gotten over this challenge but the biggest hurdle is ahead of us.
Let's make 2013 our year.
Posting in a locked thread just to say I didn't say zero-tolerance. I said I'd ban if things were severe. I'm more likely to just move posts to the sewers, or delete them, and send a PM warning as I have done in the past. I'm just going to pay more attention, rather than sitting back because I like to avoid drama. The Sewers has always been a no-rules board, the place for flaming and etc...
As Firerain said, sometimes things to too far. I agree that this is the minority of the time, and these would be the only times bans are posted. People aren't going to suddenly disappear for saying "stupid" or "retard" or making a joke.
In fact, all I even said in the mod hut thread was that I'd been admittedly slack, and I'm going to simply pay more attention as a staff member.
I really don't like having words put in my mouth, especially when I'm being flamed in IRC for standing up for my own opinion. So I figured I'd at least put it down here so people can see.
This isn't going to become a dictatorship, so let's not phrase rhetoric in that way.
That said, I also feel that removing Irock's mod privileges was pretty unnecessary, but what's done is done.
1. No more "hidden mods" or whatever. Its dumb.
2. Mods should be active in the community. Im still a mod for some reason, and I haven't done anything modular in like 3 years. I said a few years ago that I didn't think I should be one, because Im not around as much, and I was sort of told Mod 4 Lyfe.
3. Bans are one thing, especially short ones, but the first action to a well known member should be a PM. Its respectful.
4. People should not use an atom bomb to ward off a fingernail scratch. Its immature. Quitting the forum, or being self-removed from Modding because of hurt feelings is irresponsible and a little babyish. If I quit everything I did when I didn't agree with a decision that was made, I wouldn't have anything left. Talking, not fighting, but talking, is the key to everything.
5. Maybe we all need to be a little more self-aware of our dickishness. Myself included, we all have said some things that were less than welcoming, and maybe we should do something about that.
These are just my opinions, and I don't really have anything to do with this whole issue. Feel free to ignore me, lol.
okay so as always I'm late to the party
but honestly I feel that the aggro/general nastiness was getting somewhat out of hand. beyond funny and into just plain nasty territory, especially some of irocks comments. yes rmrk is lax etc but there is a limit.
I'm not entirely sure I want to post here any more just as I am equally sure not much of you care but if the mods have been cut down then its only right that I do more mod work rather than just editing the word cocks into peoples posts.
i also think that we should make a little more effort into welcoming people rather than making them feel they're just toys we can fuck with because its funny.
Come on guys, the topic was locked for a reason.
Topic should never have been made public.