You know these people. The ones who claim they're "straightedge" and hate drugs of all sorts. The ones who claim this, and then go get drunk at some party because "drinking is fun." I ask, what the hell's the difference? It's like they're oblivious to the fact that alcohol is a drug. That alcohol alters your mental and physical processes just as any other drug would. So why exclude it? It can be just as damaging, it can be abused just as badly, and it can be addictive just like any other drug. So why say it's okay when other drugs aren't?
I ask this because there are several people I know with this mindset, and it just seems retarded to me.
This is true, i know people who have the exact same reasoning, i enjoy a drink, but i have never done drugs, and properly wont, but i do not think they are terrible, i understand why people would take them.
But i would like to see if anyone on this forum has that reasoning, with out screaming 'HOLY SHIT DRUGS ARE BAD, no i like alcohol, BUT LIKE....DRUGS ARE WORSE'
There is no reasoning behind it whatsoever, marijuana is a weaker and less deadly drug than alcohol, and anyone who argues against drugs and then goes out and drinks doesn't know anything about them.
Quote from: Zypher on October 13, 2007, 02:05:44 PM
You know these people. The ones who claim they're "straightedge" and hate drugs of all sorts. The ones who claim this, and then go get drunk at some party because "drinking is fun." I ask, what the hell's the difference? It's like they're oblivious to the fact that alcohol is a drug. That alcohol alters your mental and physical processes just as any other drug would. So why exclude it? It can be just as damaging, it can be abused just as badly, and it can be addictive just like any other drug. So why say it's okay when other drugs aren't?
I ask this because there are several people I know with this mindset, and it just seems retarded to me.
ok, this might sound weid, but just 1 min ago I had a discussion about this with my dad and I said alcohol is a drug, now I see this topic D:
and yeah it's true, we did a health project about it
We can helpl prevent it in the next generation of people by banning our kids from drinking and any type of drugs starting from birth.
For the people that you mention, they're just trying to hide the facts.
Time for me ruth this alittle;
For starters, yes, alcohol is a drug and blah blah dc. Now, I have a brother who has used drugs since he was 16, he has used them for 6 years and he started using them before he started drinking like hardcore. Naturally, when he was 14 he was liak "I might drink but no drugs 4 me, no.". Everyone who drinks will probably say that alcohol isn't as bad as drugs, and that's correct. What's wrong with letting people think like this? It's what they think is right and they feel comfortable about thinking so.
And now, if everyone would use drugs, we wouldn't have a very good economy would we? Drugs are insanely expensive, my brother owes me more money than I even knew I have. If you got to choose, would be addicted to drugs or alcohol? The answer is pretty self-explanationary. There is absolutely nothing wrong with alcohol aslong as you don't overdo it. A drink now and then is relaxing and good (Swedish gossip magazine tells red wine is good for your heart :3). You can only blame yourself if you drink so much you swabble around more than Spongebob. As for marijuana, there are evidence that it fucks up your mind ~_~ It does lead to the use of deadlier drugs later on. Either due to social or mental needs.
Quote from: Lara Crawft on October 13, 2007, 02:41:48 PM
marijuana, It does lead to the use of deadlier drugs later on.
False, this is due solely to the fact that it is an illegal drug, and therefore to get it you have to go to a drug dealer which sells other drugs, if it was legal, there would be no temptation to try others whatsoever, and marijuana does nothing to the long term status of your brain, it actually can regenerate dead brain cells.
Quote from: Lara Crawft on October 13, 2007, 02:41:48 PM
Everyone who drinks will probably say that alcohol isn't as bad as drugs, and that's correct.
..but it's not correct. That's the whole point I'm trying to make.
typo ::) and bio that's what I meant by social.
Then I'll try again.
Quote from: Lara Crawft on October 13, 2007, 02:41:48 PM
What's wrong with letting people think like this?
Because it's false.
It's not really false. I neither drink nor do drugs. But practically everyone I know does drink, and practically everyone I know that does drugs is fucked up. I know three people who do drugs whose lives aren't fucked up, and about 10 or so whose lives are. Practically everybody I know drinks, but aside from one guy who got into a car crash drunk driving, and the father of a friend who wasted his paycheck on drinking until he got help, most of them are fine.
Alcohol is a drug, yes, but it is not addictive in the way that cocaine, meth, etc... are. It can be a social addiction, but it is not a chemical addiction. I believe Pot is also not a chemical addiction, but pot smells like rotting shit being burnt in a toaster, so fuck legalizing that shit, though I live in Canada, and it is unfortunately pretty close. I would also argue that with drinking, it is social, so you really only have fun if there are other people also getting drunk. Because of this, people don't drink in the daytime, or even so much on weekdays, at least not to the extent of getting drunk. Marijuana, and other drugs, have no such restriction and so people do it at any time in the day, which could have negative effects on society. Whether it does or not, the reason I think drugs have worse effects then alcohol (as, at least in my experience, it does), is precisely because of the social nature of alcohol and the fact that drugs do not carry with them that necessity. Of course, a lot of that is speculation based on the observation that drugs have a 77% chance of fucking up your life (from my observation), and alcohol has a 3% chance (also based on my observation).
QuoteAlcohol is a drug, yes, but it is not addictive in the way that cocaine, meth, etc... are. It can be a social addiction, but it is not a chemical addiction. I believe Pot is also not a chemical addiction, but pot smells like rotting shit being burnt in a toaster, so fuck legalizing that shit, though I live in Canada, and it is unfortunately pretty close
Yes,,alcohol is not as bad of a drug as others are.
And that's where the quote: "Drugs are BAD,,alcohol is so much better" comes from.
If you just HAVE to do drugs,,then choose alcohol. It has the least chance of messing up your life.
Quote from: modern algebra on October 13, 2007, 06:01:01 PM
Alcohol is a drug, yes, but it is not addictive in the way that cocaine, meth, etc... are. It can be a social addiction, but it is not a chemical addiction.
Alcohol is physically addictive. It has been proven to be physically addictive, and alcoholics who quit drinking suffer withdrawal.
alcoholism was never an addiction,,until psycologists came up with the term,,so that they could make some more money.
...It was always an addiction. It wasn't a DISEASE until the ALCOHOLICS needed yet another CRUTCH.
And the fact that alcoholics exist, and in large quantities, leads back to my point: You can't say that you hate drugs and like drinking. It is a total contradiction.
Quote from: Arrow-1 on October 13, 2007, 08:46:55 PM
...It was always an addiction. It wasn't a DISEASE until the ALCOHOLICS needed yet another CRUTCH.
Well put.
Quote from: djkdjl on October 13, 2007, 07:13:28 PM
Yes,,alcohol is not as bad of a drug as others are.
And that's where the quote: "Drugs are BAD,,alcohol is so much better" comes from.
If you just HAVE to do drugs,,then choose alcohol. It has the least chance of messing up your life.
I don't see how anyone would HAVE to do drugs. The least chance of messing up your life? Wrong. Alcohol has the same chance to mess up your life as anything else does.
Quote from: Wikipedia
The quantity, frequency and regularity of alcohol consumption required to develop alcoholism varies greatly from person to person. In addition, although the biological mechanisms underpinning alcoholism are uncertain, some risk factors, including social environment, emotional health and genetic predisposition, have been identified.
...
It is common for a person suffering from alcoholism to drink well after physical health effects start to manifest. The physical health effects associated with alcohol consumption are described in Alcohol consumption and health, but may include cirrhosis of the liver, pancreatitis, epilepsy, polyneuropathy, alcoholic dementia, heart disease, increased chance of cancer, nutritional deficiencies, sexual dysfunction, and death from many sources.
I'd say that could easily ruin a persons life.
Quote from: Zypher on October 13, 2007, 08:53:53 PM
And the fact that alcoholics exist, and in large quantities, leads back to my point: You can't say that you hate drugs and like drinking. It is a total contradiction.
Though I would consider alcohol a drug, I don't think theres anything wrong with drinking once in a while. When you start drinking on a daily basis(more than a beer or glass of wine) thats when it can become a problem.
Quote from: blacksheepmoan on October 13, 2007, 09:02:47 PM
Anyone who's ever said "alchohol is a drug" in their life is either a loser or extremely sheltered. Shut th fuck up.
Lol, I've definitely had my fair share of parties where I woke up the next day not remembering anything from the night before. Yes I do drink, though not at an unhealthy level, and I believe alcohol is a drug.
Quote from: blacksheepmoan on October 13, 2007, 09:02:47 PM
What about caffeine? I know lots of "straitedge" people who drink way to much caffeine. Guess their drug adicts eh?
Quote from: Wikipedia
Overuse
In large amounts, and especially over extended periods of time, caffeine can lead to a condition known as caffeinism.[57][58] Caffeinism usually combines caffeine dependency with a wide range of unpleasant physical and mental conditions including nervousness, irritability, anxiety, tremulousness, muscle twitching (hyperreflexia), insomnia, headaches, respiratory alkalosis[59] and heart palpitations.[60] Furthermore, because caffeine increases the production of stomach acid, high usage over time can lead to peptic ulcers, erosive esophagitis, and gastroesophageal reflux disease.[61] However, since both "regular" and decaffeinated coffees have been shown to stimulate the gastric mucosa and increase stomach acid secretion, caffeine is probably not the sole component of coffee responsible.[62]
There are four caffeine-induced psychiatric disorders recognized by the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, Fourth Edition: caffeine intoxication, caffeine-induced anxiety disorder, caffeine-induced sleep disorder, and caffeine-related disorder not otherwise specified (NOS).
I hate drugs,,but I like drinking
cuz drinking is the lesser of two evils.
Quote from: blacksheepmoan on October 13, 2007, 09:02:47 PM
Anyone who's ever said "alchohol is a drug" in their life is either a loser or extremely sheltered. Shut th fuck up. What about caffeine? I know lots of "straitedge" people who drink way to much caffeine. Guess their drug adicts eh?
I was about to address this as well. Caffeine is different from alcohol in that it is often consumed simply because it's there. I would say I'm straightedge, and yes I do drink beverages with caffeine in them. Why? Because I like soda, and because most sodas contain caffeine. Would I have an issue if the beverage didn't have caffeine? Certainly not. The difference is clear in that people drink alcohol simply because it is alcoholic. There is no other sensible reason to drink an alcoholic beverage, seeing as how alcohol has dehydration properties and makes the drinker MORE thirsty.
Quote from: djkdjl on October 13, 2007, 08:42:16 PM
alcoholism was never an addiction,,until psycologists came up with the term,,so that they could make some more money.
In the same way that cancer wasn't a disease until doctors came up with a term, so they could raise more money.
Quote from: Zypher on October 13, 2007, 09:28:47 PM
Quote from: blacksheepmoan on October 13, 2007, 09:02:47 PM
Anyone who's ever said "alchohol is a drug" in their life is either a loser or extremely sheltered. Shut th fuck up. What about caffeine? I know lots of "straitedge" people who drink way to much caffeine. Guess their drug adicts eh?
I was about to address this as well. Caffeine is different from alcohol in that it is often consumed simply because it's there. I would say I'm straightedge, and yes I do drink beverages with caffeine in them. Why? Because I like soda, and because most sodas contain caffeine. Would I have an issue if the beverage didn't have caffeine? Certainly not. The difference is clear in that people drink alcohol simply because it is alcoholic. There is no other sensible reason to drink an alcoholic beverage, seeing as how alcohol has dehydration properties and makes the drinker MORE thirsty.
Ah, but people who normally drink coffee in the morning do get headaches when they do not drink it. Also, soft drinks do cause major health problems, specifically because of the sugar or aspartaine, and even after these problems begin to manifest, such as obesity and high blood pressure, people often do not stop drinking soft drinks. It is at least as much an addiction as anything else. There's always water to be drunk instead of soft drinks, and so 'just because it's there' is not a good excuse. With (soda: lame americans) pop, the caffeine is not an issue, it is more or less a psychological addiction, same as with alcohol.
Also, while there are a lot of alcoholics, the proportion of alcoholics to people who drink alcohol is much smaller then the proportion of drug addicts to those who do drugs. And like I said, there is nothing in the alcohol itself which causes dependency:
Quote from: http://www.hopenetworks.org/addiction/alcohol/Alcohol%20and%20Addiction%20Science.htm
How does alcohol cause alcoholism? Recent research findings indicate that alcohol doesn't cause alcoholism. To appreciate this, people must understand that alcohol dependence (the scientific word for "alcoholism") is a brain disease. This brain disease is expressed through the compulsive drinking of alcohol. Thus if a person never drinks alcohol, the disease will not be seen. (December 16, 2002)
This is a direct contrast to drugs like cocaine or nicotine, which modify your body in such a way that you do not feel normal without the administration of the drug.
Quote from: Wikipedia
Drug addiction has two components: physical dependency, and psychological dependency. Physical dependency occurs when a drug has been used habitually and the body has become accustomed to its effects. The person must then continue to use the drug in order to feel normal, or its absence will trigger the symptoms of withdrawal. Psychological dependency occurs when a drug has been used habitually and the mind has become emotionally reliant on its effects, either to elicit pleasure or relieve pain, and does not feel capable of functioning without it. Its absence produces intense cravings, which are often brought on or magnified by stress. A dependent person may have either aspects of dependency or both.
Alcoholism is the second of the two, the dependency is psychological, not physical. Psychological dependencies also tend to take a long time to manifest, which is another difference between the two. That, to me makes alcohol better then cocaine, meth, etc... And, while I am not aware of this applying to marijuana, I've already stated my opposition to it in the post above.
Quote from: modern algebra on October 13, 2007, 10:11:10 PM
Ah, but people who normally drink coffee in the morning do get headaches when they do not drink it. Also, soft drinks do cause major health problems, specifically because of the sugar or aspartame, and even after these problems begin to manifest, such as obesity and high blood pressure, people often do not stop drinking soft drinks. It is at least as much an addiction as anything else. There's always water to be drunk instead of soft drinks, and so 'just because it's there' is not a good excuse. With (soda: lame americans) pop, the caffeine is not an issue, it is more or less a psychological addiction, same as with alcohol.
I drink soda every day, and I could quit drinking it any day of the week no problem. As I said, the difference between that and alcohol is that I drink it because it tastes good, not because of the effects it has on my body and my mind (which are minimal at best).
Quote
Psychological dependency occurs when a drug has been used habitually and the mind has become emotionally reliant on its effects, either to elicit pleasure
Don't get me wrong, I am addicted to pop myself. But pleasure can be because it tastes good or because it makes you drunk. The two are equivalent. Anybody can quit drinking alcohol any day of the week no problem too. They don't because they like the way in which it alters their mind, and you and I don't quit drinking soda because, just like the obese guy with major heart problems, soft drinks taste good. It is a conscious decision in both cases. The fact is, it is very rare that someone is drinking alcohol or pop because they are addicted to it. Very few people who drink alcohol actually develop a dependency. However, the way that you can become addicted to pop is the same way that you can become addicted to alcohol. With harder drugs, the dependency develops faster, is pretty much inevitable, and it causes physical dependency, which is the harder of the two addictions to get rid of. I would say that makes alcohol better then cocaine.
But alcohol IS physically addictive, because recovering alcoholics suffer physical withdrawal symptoms. That isn't the case with being "addicted" to pop because it tastes good.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sugar_addiction
Quote
"Recent behavioral tests in rats further back the idea of an overlap between sweets and drugs. Drug addiction often includes three steps. A person will increase his intake of the drug, experience withdrawal symptoms when access to the drug is cut off and then face an urge to relapse back into drug use. Rats on sugar have similar experiences. Researchers withheld food for 12 hours and then gave rats food plus sugar water. This created a cycle of binging where the animals increased their daily sugar intake until it doubled. When researchers either stopped the diet or administered an opioid blocker the rats showed signs common to drug withdrawal, such as teeth-chattering and the shakes. Early findings also indicate signs of relapse. Rats weaned off sugar repeatedly pressed a lever that previously dispensed the sweet solution."
Again, unlike most narcotics, an addiction to alcohol is very rare, even among people who drink on a regular basis. For other narcotics, it is very common.
Also, I'd like to clarify that I'm not arguing for or against alcohol, or any drug for that matter. My making of this thread was based on my annoyance with hypocritical idiots who claim to "hate drugs" but exclude drinking just because "it doesn't count." If you like drinking then you don't hate drugs.
Well, I guess that can be considered hypocritical, but only if you take 'drug' in the literal sense. I.e. fully inclusive, so drug refers to Tylenol, Advil, etc... But in the way it is being used when people say they "hate drugs", they are referring to the common conception of a drug as an illegal narcotic, and it is not hypocritical to make that claim.
I have heard stories where kids go into shocks if they don't drink caffine, and I came VERY close to being there, I drank over like fifteen sodas in a weekend. That could have been ugly. And also...
Quote from: modern algebra on October 14, 2007, 01:05:43 AM
Well, I guess that can be considered hypocritical, but only if you take 'drug' in the literal sense. I.e. fully inclusive, so drug refers to Tylenol, Advil, etc... But in the way it is being used when people say they "hate drugs", they are referring to the common conception of a drug as an illegal narcotic, and it is not hypocritical to make that claim.
Very good point
Quote from: modern algebra on October 14, 2007, 01:05:43 AM
Well, I guess that can be considered hypocritical, but only if you take 'drug' in the literal sense. I.e. fully inclusive, so drug refers to Tylenol, Advil, etc... But in the way it is being used when people say they "hate drugs", they are referring to the common conception of a drug as an illegal narcotic, and it is not hypocritical to make that claim.
Yes, but the difference is Tylenol and Advil exist for medical purposes. Using it for any other reason is abuse of the drug. Since alcohol isn't used for medical purposes (in generally most cases), it is therefore abused.
When people say they think drugs are bad, they are saying
abusing the drugs are bad, which of course excludes the use of drugs such as Tylenol which have medical purposes. So why would abusing alcohol be acceptable? That's what I'm getting at by remarking on the hypocrisy of the situation.
Many things are bad for you... And some things are only illeagle as the Government can't tax it.
If the Government could tax Marijuana then there would be bars opening every darn place.
It's like cigarette:-
Acetone Cyanide
Aluminum DDT/Dieldrin
Ammonia Ethenol
Arsenic Formaldehyde
Benzene Hydrogen cyanide
Butane Lead
Cadmium Methanol
Carbon monoxide Nicotine
Carbon dioxide Tar
Chloroform Vinyl Chloride
Now most of those Chemicals have been used in chemical War bombs and such like, there toxic and are known to do SERIOUS damage, yet we can Tax them so there fine !!!
Drinking is considered as fine as it can be taxed...
I like to drink, and I have experimented with Legal Drugs like Salvia...
I think as long as you know your self and are happy with your self no harm will come of being sensible with any of these substances.
If Anything should be looked at and banned it's cigarette... Oh and Nesquick Milkshake straws... They contain Aspartame (But then again most kids foods do...) Aspartame = Ant Posion.
I'm here to put all of you in your place on this issue.
First off, alcohol is absolutely a drug. It effects the opiate receptors in your brain, just like heroin and Oxys and other opiates. Second, alcohol addiction is not rare, in fact it is very common. People who say it isn't are just ignorant of the facts.
For the people that need scientific proof on the subject, I'll tell you about a little thing called THIQ:
THIQ is a chemical that is created in your brain when you do heroin. It is a highly addictive chemical, and once it is in you, it never goes away. A doctor was doing studies on the brains of dead homeless people, and discovered that they all had THIQ in them. She was wondering how all these homeless drunks could afford heroin, but it turns out that in a percentage of the population, the process in which the body metabolizes alcohol is a little different.
In normal people, alcohol is turned to acetaldehyde. This is then broken down into carbon and water, which is expelled through sweat and urine.
In the alcoholic, however, there is another step. Part of the acetaldehyde is kept behind, and is made into THIQ.
Also, props to Zypher for knowing that alcohol withdrawals are deadly. Actually, the only chemical withdrawals that you can die from are alchohol and benzos. These both can lead to severe seizures.
I'm a firm believer that were alcohol invented today, it would be illegal.
The only problem is that this isn't known by many people, and that where is the line between it as well.
I'll give you an example test about the correlation between opiates and alcohol.
A rat was placed in a cage with a bowl of water, and a bowl containing a weak mixture of vodka and water. The rat would not drink the alcohol at all. A small amount of THIQ was injected into its brain, and after that, not only did the rat drink the mixture, but favored it over the pure water.
Addiction is not simply about one chemical or another. It is about using something to alter your mood or mind. Many people who have the disease of alcoholism are also addicted to other substances. This is called substitution.
Quote from: Holkeye on October 17, 2007, 09:51:56 PM
I'm here to put all of you in your place on this issue.
First off, alcohol is absolutely a drug. It effects the opiate receptors in your brain, just like heroin and Oxys and other opiates. Second, alcohol addiction is not rare, in fact it is very common. People who say it isn't are just ignorant of the facts.
For the people that need scientific proof on the subject, I'll tell you about a little thing called THIQ:
THIQ is a chemical that is created in your brain when you do heroin. It is a highly addictive chemical, and once it is in you, it never goes away. A doctor was doing studies on the brains of dead homeless people, and discovered that they all had THIQ in them. She was wondering how all these homeless drunks could afford heroin, but it turns out that in a percentage of the population, the process in which the body metabolizes alcohol is a little different.
In normal people, alcohol is turned to acetaldehyde. This is then broken down into carbon and water, which is expelled through sweat and urine.
In the alcoholic, however, there is another step. Part of the acetaldehyde is kept behind, and is made into THIQ.
Also, props to Zypher for knowing that alcohol withdrawals are deadly. Actually, the only chemical withdrawals that you can die from are alchohol and benzos. These both can lead to severe seizures.
I'm a firm believer that were alcohol invented today, it would be illegal.
But alcohol addiction really is not that common statistically. There are a lot of alcoholics yes, but the percentage of addicted people to people who use alcohol is lower then pretty much any other illegal drug. Secondly, I'm pretty sure the addiction you are talking about is related to genetics. There is still nothing in the alcohol which causes addiction in a regular person, unlike heroin (which is a much worse addiction to have; I remember reading that it costs an average addict $150 - $200 a day to satisfy their addiction)
I am not trying to say that alcohol isn't bad, and I have not said that. I'm saying it is not hypocritical to state that cocaine and heroin is worse. It is a fact that they are much much worse. I think lumping alcohol in with heroin is just as ridiculous as lumping advil in with alcohol. Just because they are all drugs does not mean they are all equally bad. Some are worse then others, and it's not hypocritical to state that.
And also, why would it matter if alcohol was invented recently. Remember, alcohol was illegal. It was called the Prohibition, and it didn't work out.
Quote from: Holkeye on October 17, 2007, 10:10:37 PM
Addiction is not simply about one chemical or another. It is about using something to alter your mood or mind. Many people who have the disease of alcoholism are also addicted to other substances. This is called substitution.
Psychological addiction doesn't even have to be to drugs though. It can be to T.V. or chocolate or really, anything else. I am not sure what you are getting at by bringing this up since it is not specific to alcohol, or even to drugs.
You're preaching to someone who knows what addiction is first hand. To say that heroin or cocaine addiction is worse is just naivety. The first and most important thing to know about being an addict is that people who aren't addicts will never understand what it is like. You should probably keep your false opinions to yourself, or do some research on the subject.
Well, I'm sorry to hear that you were addicted to something, but I have done research. Perhaps the feeling of the addiction itself is not worse, but it is a fact that people who use heroin or cocaine are more likely to get addicted to it then people who drink alcohol. And they are more likely to get addicted to it faster, and with less use of the shit. So fine, I don't know what it's like to be an addict, and I probably never will since I don't drink and I don't do drugs, but drinking alcohol regularly is not as likely to get you addicted to it as using heroin regularly is, and that alone makes it a worse substance to abuse. That's a fact, it's not an opinion.
Quote from: modern algebra on October 17, 2007, 11:02:07 PM
Well, I'm sorry to hear that you were addicted to something, but I have done research. Perhaps the feeling of the addiction itself is not worse, but it is a fact that people who use heroin or cocaine are more likely to get addicted to it then people who drink alcohol. And they are more likely to get addicted to it faster, and with less use of the shit. So fine, I don't know what it's like to be an addict, and I probably never will since I don't drink and I don't do drugs, but drinking alcohol regularly is not as likely to get you addicted to it as using heroin regularly is, and that alone makes it a worse substance to abuse. That's a fact, it's not an opinion.
I agree, drinking wine at dinner is not an addiction, same goes for beer, and unless you're a hard core alcoholic, drug addiction is a lot worse.
Hell, God even talks about drinking wine in the bible :D
Doing heroin once is also not an addiction. The only difference between alcohol and "hard" drugs, is that these drugs make a person not pre-disposed to an addiction spiral into one quicker. I agree with you on that, but to say that drug addiction is more common or whatever is just ignorant. Stop into a local AA meeting sometime and say that.
Quote from: Malson on October 13, 2007, 02:05:44 PM
You know these people. The ones who claim they're "straightedge" and hate drugs of all sorts. The ones who claim this, and then go get drunk at some party because "drinking is fun." I ask, what the hell's the difference? It's like they're oblivious to the fact that alcohol is a drug. That alcohol alters your mental and physical processes just as any other drug would. So why exclude it? It can be just as damaging, it can be abused just as badly, and it can be addictive just like any other drug. So why say it's okay when other drugs aren't?
I ask this because there are several people I know with this mindset, and it just seems retarded to me.
Someone obliviously doesn't know what straightedge ACTUALLY is. Straightedge is not drinking, smoking, doing drugs AND casual sex.
SxE is for fuckwads. If you're clean, then fine. Most Edge kids are assholes anyway.
heh my dad smokes and he stop drinking for 17 years drunk one went home stop drinking for another 17 years he did this abot 2 and a half times :D
i dont know your right drinking is just away of killing yourself quicker or killing someone else quicker
i noticed most of the native population does drugs and alot of drinking going on at young age its sad only 40% of aboriganals pass unversity heh im going to be part of that 40% even though im almost 2 thirds white :D(french scottish)
i dont know other people have reasons (like a family member dies)and all they can do is bottle things up
(https://rmrk.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg122.imageshack.us%2Fimg122%2F8315%2Fgoronuct5.jpg&hash=0653a4d061ddb2a1a74ba9867d61e3d5e4afec69)
Quote from: cjonlyyou on March 13, 2008, 07:33:46 AM
heh my dad smokes and he stop drinking for 17 years drunk one went home stop drinking for another 17 years he did this abot 2 and a half times :D
i dont know your right drinking is just away of killing yourself quicker or killing someone else quicker
i noticed most of the native population does drugs and alot of drinking going on at young age its sad only 40% of aboriganals pass unversity heh im going to be part of that 40% even though im almost 2 thirds white :D(french scottish)
i dont know other people have reasons (like a family member dies)and all they can do is bottle things up
STOP
POSTINGINTHREADSOLDERTHAN6WEEKS!
How did they end up in the new messages section eh:D I should remove my messages because i found out half these places are Elitist which a mod pointed out yesterday.
Well, I hate drugs and I don't think alcohol is bad. And a true straightedger doesn't drink (ahem, I was straight edge, but i couldn't be a vegetarian for long). When someone uses the term "drug" they aren't refering to alcohol most of the time, that's too much political correctness for me.
Secondly, marijuana CAN lead to using other drugs, any drug can. Saying marijuana is "not a bad drug" is just ridiculous. Half the people I know that have done marijuana, and lots, not just a joint or something, eventually "try" something else. I can agree that it isn't as bad as most, and I can agree that high school and college kids can prove that alcohol is worse at times, but one has to use a scientific premise about these things. And no, I'm not saying "weed is so bad oh my God!" Anyways... banning Alcohol will just lead to another issue like prohibition here in the United States. Remember that I'm not saying alcohol isn't bad, jsut going out and partying can have some bad side-effects.
About: "What is it with people who think drugs are bad but drinking is okay?" - it's just the use of the term and the object in discussion. Casual alcohol use isn't bad, and I can guarentee you that most drugs, and I'm including marijuana, have some bad side effects when used casually (everyone knows the weezing weed guy?). I remember Mad TV making fun of the issue and how people are always saying marijuana isn't all bad.
That's just me though, take it for what it's worth.
Quote from: Malson on October 13, 2007, 02:05:44 PM
You know these people. The ones who claim they're "straightedge" and hate drugs of all sorts. The ones who claim this, and then go get drunk at some party because "drinking is fun." I ask, what the hell's the difference? It's like they're oblivious to the fact that alcohol is a drug. That alcohol alters your mental and physical processes just as any other drug would. So why exclude it? It can be just as damaging, it can be abused just as badly, and it can be addictive just like any other drug. So why say it's okay when other drugs aren't?
I ask this because there are several people I know with this mindset, and it just seems retarded to me.
I'm semi guilty of this Mindset, I think Alchohol and Pot are okay but harder drugs are something to be avoided.
Hmmm
Alcohol? Or Heroin?
I think one of those is significantly worse than the other...
Actually, that's not even entirely true, Heroin has a huge stigmata about it, but it's really only as bad as some other hard drugs, like LSD or mushrooms or acid.
But yeah, come on, alcohol doesn't even approach the same level as heroin, or mushrooms.
Alcohol doesn't make you trip and eat people. You might fight people, though, lol.
I think the issue is that people group all drugs into one set, and then say it's not as bad as alcohol. Softer drugs aren't as bad as alcohol, that's absolutely true. Weed just makes you hungry and happy, OC just makes you itchy and happy, vicoden just makes you happy and not pee. But the hard stuff is fucking dangerous, because it alters your perception of things, and detaches your actions from your thoughts.
You wouldn't really understand if you haven't done any hard drugs.
Having a bad experience with alcohol means you throw up and immediately feel better, and then feel like shit the next day. Or maybe you sleep with someone you regret LOL.
Having a bad trip is fucking terrifying. Trust me. It can do permanent damage to your brain, which is much worse than just doing damage to your body.
I'll say it once more: this was never an argument about which drugs are worse than others. The point is that people say they hate drugs, but then go and drink as if they think alcohol is not a drug, which is utterly retarded. It IS a drug, and it IS capable of harming you if you abuse it.
Quote from: Malson on April 10, 2008, 07:23:21 PM
I'll say it once more: this was never an argument about which drugs are worse than others. The point is that people say they hate drugs, but then go and drink as if they think alcohol is not a drug, which is utterly retarded. It IS a drug, and it IS capable of harming you if you abuse it.
We know, we're just pointing out that they are in a seperate category most of the time. You have to go beyond a question to help yourself explain it better sometimes. People generally don't care about political correctness when it comes to this topic. I don't consider alcohol is the same league as "drugs" mainly because I just don't. Is it a drug by definition? Yes. Most people don't generally get "addicted" to alcohol. Though it is addictive in itself, some people I guess are not as prone to it. My family ruinion had about 100 people, less than half of whom actually drank at the reuinion, with about 4 or 5 trash cans full of beer cas, trash cans the size of the ones used in some schools, the big blue ones. You get your occasional drunk or alcoholic, but normally, aside from college kids and such, you get people who may have a drink every now and then.
So when people say they hate drugs but think alcohol is ok, they expect one to use common sense in their case. Not saying you aren't or anything, it's just that people assume you know what they are talking about, and don't care for an argument.
Sigh*
Everythings a paradigm....
Quote from: Arlen on April 10, 2008, 03:41:32 PM
Hmmm
Alcohol? Or Heroin?
I think one of those is significantly worse than the other...
Actually, that's not even entirely true, Heroin has a huge stigmata about it, but it's really only as bad as some other hard drugs, like LSD or mushrooms or acid.
But yeah, come on, alcohol doesn't even approach the same level as heroin, or mushrooms.
Alcohol doesn't make you trip and eat people. You might fight people, though, lol.
I think the issue is that people group all drugs into one set, and then say it's not as bad as alcohol. Softer drugs aren't as bad as alcohol, that's absolutely true. Weed just makes you hungry and happy, OC just makes you itchy and happy, vicoden just makes you happy and not pee. But the hard stuff is fucking dangerous, because it alters your perception of things, and detaches your actions from your thoughts.
You wouldn't really understand if you haven't done any hard drugs.
Having a bad experience with alcohol means you throw up and immediately feel better, and then feel like shit the next day. Or maybe you sleep with someone you regret LOL.
Having a bad trip is fucking terrifying. Trust me. It can do permanent damage to your brain, which is much worse than just doing damage to your body.
Anyone who thinks Oxycontin isn't a hard drug is a fucking idiot.
it's only a hard drug if you're stupid enough to take it three days in a row
then you go through withdrawal and feel sick for a few days, boo hoo
Classification as a "hard drug" doesn't hinge on the amount you take.
Agreed. Otherwise alcohol would be a hard drug, and half of the debate in this thread would be nullified.
Quote from: LocoHolko on April 29, 2008, 01:47:53 AM
Classification as a "hard drug" doesn't hinge on the amount you take.
Then what makes OC a hard drug?
Because it has one chemical difference from heroin. It is, basically, prescription heroin.
But it doesn't have the same effects as heroin...
Quote from: Arlen on April 29, 2008, 12:33:19 PM
But it doesn't have the same effects as heroin...
Ok, you fail this topic.
It has nearly the EXACT same effects as heroin. Why do you think that most people start on Vicodin, move to OCs, and then realized that bags of heroin are $20-$30 cheaper and just switch to that?
Don't try to debate on a topic you know nothing about.
I'm only debating because, uh, I've done both. Unless my roomate is lying to me, but he's a pharmacy major, and heroin's kind of his vice.
OC makes me really happy and chill, and in a really good mood. And itchy.
Heroin just made me tired and not give a fuck and just want to go to sleep. And my roomate kept saying "make sure he stays awake."
Seriously, don't get so fucking pissy over this, I was just asking you to clarify for me.
You don't have to be a pretentious little shitbag over it just because the forum is named "Elitist Debate."
Jesus fucking Christ.
WOW, that escalated quickly.
Seriously. That was horribly unnecessary. No need to get all cranky about it.
I know, Holk really flew off the handle there.
Oh wait, you're holk.