How can you possibly say that bigfoot does not exist, it is the cryptid with BY far the most evidence, I don't care how credible the source is. The loch ness monster, (plesiosaurs), died out millions of years ago, you say? So did the coelacanth, until 1998 when it was finally noticed to still be alive.
The coelacanth isn't a good creature to compare to pleisosaurs. One breaths air, the other breathes water. One is big by fish standards, the other is just big. One lives deep in the water, the other surfaces regularly. Which one would you expect to be found first?
Nessie killer: if the Loch Ness monster was real there would have to be a population viable enough to last for 65 million years. If there were 100 pleisosaurs in the lake at any one time then people would see them surface for air every day.Actually, what Holk said is right, and it has been proven. Many plesiousaur skeletons have been found that have a hole on the top of their skull, probably for breathing, so all they have to do is graze the top of the water, you could be 5 feet away and notice nothing. Same as the theory that was put forth, that said that there wouldn't even be enough fish to support 1 plesiosaur, until sonar scans and we found that 300 could be supported. And another reason they might not be seen as often, is the underwater tunnels that supposedly connect the loch to the ocean.
Actually, what Holk said is right, and it has been proven. Many plesiousaur skeletons have been found that have a hole on the top of their skull, probably for breathing, so all they have to do is graze the top of the water, you could be 5 feet away and notice nothing. Same as the theory that was put forth, that said that there wouldn't even be enough fish to support 1 plesiosaur, until sonar scans and we found that 300 could be supported. And another reason they might not be seen as often, is the underwater tunnels that supposedly connect the loch to the ocean.
mmm... yeah... lets not get religion into this. Besides, if nessie did actually exist, it'd be dead by now, because if you look at it, the first sighting of nessie was a looooooooong time ago, when a priest put nessie to halt when it was attacking a man. It all really depends on the life span of the plesiosaur. Yeah sure, people 'thought' they saw nessie, but most of those photos are fake, for example, the one with the long neck, is a toy sauropod (Sauropods were the ones with long necks, lived on land, and were herbivores). Also, if nessie existed, we would be able to find animal droppings on the lake bed. to prove nessie doesnt exist, we'd have to look at food levels (such as fish, reptiles, any thing of the like) before nessie was spotted, and after she was spotted.There isn't ONE plesiousaur, or ONE bigfoot, dumbshit. And the person who took the most famous Nessie photo, I'm assuming this is what you are talking about, said that they used a model made of out plasticwood. They said this, and it wasn't invented at the time the pictures were taken, and the second, much rarer, photo showed a bend in the neck.
There isn't ONE plesiousaur, or ONE bigfoot, dumbshit.
Debate is a formalized system of (usually) logical argument. Rules governing debate allow groups and individuals to discuss and decide issues and differences. Debate is a common process in deliberative bodies such as parliaments, legislative assemblies, and meetings of all sorts. Outcomes of debates may be decided by voting, by judges, or by combination of both.
Discoveries of new animal species are not common, but this happens more frequently than people believe. The okapi, sometimes called the ghost of the jungle, and the mountain gorilla were both discovered in Africa in the early 1900s. The kouprey, a mountain ox, was discovered in 1937 in the forests of Southeast Asia. It is critically endangered and is found in Cambodia and believed to be extinct in Laos and Viet Nam. A coelacanth, believed to be extinct, was caught off of the coast of Africa in 1938. The megamouth shark was discovered off of the Hawaiian coast in 1976.
People have sighted sea, river and lake serpents globally. Probably the most famous is Nessie of Loch Ness, Scotland. In the United States, lake serpents include South Bay Bessie (Lake Erie, PA), Champ (Lake Champlain, NY), Winnie (Lake Winnipesaukee, NH), Tessie (Lake Tahoe, NV-CA borders), Chessie (Chesapeake Bay, VA), Hodgee (Lake Hodges, CA) and the un-nicknamed lake monsters in Lakes Norman (NC), Flathead (MT) and Murray (SC). There is also Sylvie in Silver Lake, California, not to be confused with the Silver Lake, NY serpent. Most of these serpents have only local or regional fame.
From the descriptions offered by witnesses, lake serpents could be plesiosaurs, a dinosaur believed to be extinct, as was the case with the coelacanth. Obviously, they could be an elusive species of an aquatic animal that has been sighted, but not captured alive, killed or found dead so scientists could classify and categorize the animals. To some totally skeptical people the sightings are hallucinations, optical illusions like mirages, drug induced visions or outright hoaxes
People have tried to offer explanations as to what the actual sighted monster was, as in the case of the White River monster, Whitey. Roy Mackal, a biologist, proposed that Whitey is an elephant seal who managed to swim up the Mississippi. The males can grow to be up to 17 feet long. Interesting theory, however, however, a seal would have to swim from its natural habitat in California and Baja California, then through the Panama Canal to the Atlantic Ocean to get to the big river. Another flaw in this thought is that seals are pinnipeds that use their flippers to navigate on land. They do not leave three toed tracks as Whitey did.
Giant otters have also been theorized to account for lake serpent sightings. It has been suggested that they swim in a groups and, when in formation, can be mistaken for a serpent. Other suggestions are unusually large specimens of sturgeon or catfish.
The Silver Lake serpent defied all of these possible theories and explanations and was in a class by itself. The Seneca tribe believed there was a monster in Silver Lake and they would not swim in it. The settlers, most likely, thought this was superstition. They had not seen anything unusual in the lake until a summer night in 1885.
On July 13th, 1885, a moonlit night, Joseph McKnight, Charles Hall and Alonzo and Charles Scribner were in a boat in Silver Lake, trying to catch catfish. McKnight saw something large that he called the other men's attention to. It looked like a huge log. It disappeared and they gave it no more thought and continued their fishing. Suddenly, the log reappeared closer to the boat and began to move in a serpentine manner toward it. In the moonlight, they could see that the log was a serpent. The men grabbed the oars in panic and rowed away from it as fast as they could. They went toward the end of the lake opposite from their homes and left the boat there. The quartet had to walk two miles to their homes. The trip across the lake was only half a mile, but there was no way they would get in the boat, in that lake and row across it with what they saw in it.
The next day, they signed notarized statements attesting as to what they saw. Their friends joked with them and said they must have been drinking. There was no way a 60 foot serpent lived in the lake!
Within several weeks, at least a hundred people saw the serpent. The townspeople formed a vigilante committee to kill it. Word spread and people came to Silver Lake in hopes of catching a glimpse of the serpent. They ranged from curiosity seekers to hunters to a whaling man who brought his lances and harpoons with him to deal with the creature.
Hotels did not have room enough for the tourists and people rented rooms in their homes to them. Business increased and an air of excitement filled the quiet resort town.
They the last sighting of the creature was in the late summer of 1885.
For the next two years, people still flocked to Perry in hopes that they would see the Silver Lake serpent. There was speculation as to why it disappeared in1885. Did it die? Was it in hibernation? Could there have been underground streams that it swam away from the lake in?
In 1857, the question of what caused the disappearance of the creature was answered. A. B. Walker's hotel, the Walker House caught on fire. When the firemen reached the attic, they found something curious. It was about 60 feet long, made of waterproof canvas with coils inside. Weights were attached to it at intervals. There were a hose and large bellows to inflate it and ropes to move it with. This was what was left of the Silver Lake serpent.
A. B. Walker wanted to increase his hotel business. He may have thought that summer would be a slow one. Perhaps he remembered the old Seneca legend and was inspired.
He, with some trusted friends, created the monster out of cloth and wire. In the darkness of the night, they took the fake serpent to the lake and silently placed it in there. The bellows and hose provided the air to make it rise up out of the water and submerge. The weights gave it the serpentine motion. The ropes made it move through the water.
Walker and his friends enjoyed the excitement their monster had created. The hotel keeper also enjoyed the increased business. It was fun. What a great practical joke and the results it created! Then, they had a few narrow escapes while navigating their monster through the waters of the lake or taking it there and back, during which they were nearly discovered with it.
The men thought about what could happen if their hoax was discovered. They began to worry how the people would react once they found out they had been deceived. This is why the Silver Lake serpent made its final appearance in late summer.
Several years ago, I read that Walker made a very hasty exit from the town fearing repercussions after the hoax was discovered.
There are still some today who believe the serpent was real and write about its validity despite compelling evidence to the contrary. One imaginative writer said that it was impossible to have been a fake because the monster's eyes glowed like fire.
In the course of my research, I found a website that calls the monster "Sylvie" and compares it to Nessie. No state was mentioned on the website, but there was a link to a local mall. This Silver Lake is in Los Angeles. At least this one is not perpetuating a fraud, but I am surprised the webmistress did not research lake serpents and find out about the Silver Lake monster hoax.
As for the town of Perry, there is an annual Sea Serpent Balloon Festival commemorating the hoax.
if there were shitloads of em, then why must they hide from the human eye?
Our anscestors, I forget the scientific name, wiped out their anscestors nearly to extinction oh, and im not saying that there is one sasquatch or plessy, if there were multiple beings, then why aren't we able to document them? Because they are HARD TO FIND.... dumbshit.take notes of them, watch them in their daily habitats, all im saying is....
i believe in nessy, and i hope it does surface some day so we could actually get footage of it. its just that some shit heads want to 'fake' those videos. theres not enough evidence to back up the claim that a nessy is actually in the loch, and even if there were other plessies in the world, we'd at least discover some by now. We have only explored something like under 5% of the ocean, and most boats never go off their shipping routes, which animals would avoid. technology has grown so useful, its easy nowathese days to make up and image of nessy, or make footage of it. Do you carry a camera or a camcorder with you all the time?
by the way, i must ask this question, in what places do you think plessies could be found? Any deep water, or places off the shipping routes.
so theres no winning or losing in debating. You proved your own theory wrong by losing.
Using 600 separate sonar beams and satellite navigation technology to
ensure that none of the loch was missed, the team surveyed the waters
said to hide Scotland's legendary tourist attraction but found no trace
of the monster. Once again, it comes back to the underwater tunnels that they would probably use to get into the loch for mating purposes, and the fact that EXTREME SONAR all through the loch would make them get out as fast as possible.
...
Our anscestors, I forget the scientific name, wiped out their anscestors nearly to extinction[/b]
Because they are HARD TO FIND.... dumbshit.[/b]
We have only explored something like under 5% of the ocean, and most boats never go off their shipping routes, which animals would avoid.[/b]hey, if scientists and explorers minded their own business, we wouldn't have discovered half the animals we know today.
Do you carry a camera or a camcorder with you all the time?[/b]
Any deep water, or places off the shipping routes.[/b]
You proved your own theory wrong by losing.[/b]
Once again, it comes back to the underwater tunnels that they would probably use to get into the loch for mating purposes, and the fact that EXTREME SONAR all through the loch would make them get out as fast as possible.[/b]
obvious reasons.List them, and I will tell you why you are wrong. You better not get religous on me.
How can you possibly say that bigfoot does not exist, it is the cryptid with BY far the most evidence, I don't care how credible the source is.If you're going to give me evidence, which I'd love, please to be giving me credible evidence.
List them, and I will tell you why you are wrong. You better not get religous on me.Stop stealing my schtick you fuckwit.
Stop stealing my schtick you fuckwit.Your schtick? I was here way before you. We should rename this topic to "Crypto critters" or something similar, because I want to talk about animals unknown to science, other than bigfoot and nessie.
Besides, if nessie did actually exist, it'd be dead by now, because if you look at it, the first sighting of nessie was a looooooooong time ago, when a priest put nessie to halt when it was attacking a man. It all really depends on the life span of the plesiosaur.Sorry Ruhani, I can't bring myself to argue with a retarded kid anymore, sorry.
you may claim im 'reatrded'I can't bring myself to argue with you anymore, I am above it.
you may claim im 'reatrded'I can't bring myself to argue with you anymore, I am above it.
BBC 'proves' Nessie does not exist
What we would like to believe
A BBC team says it has shown there is no such thing as the Loch Ness monster.
Using 600 separate sonar beams and satellite navigation technology to ensure that none of the loch was missed, the team surveyed the waters said to hide Scotland's legendary tourist attraction but found no trace of the monster.
Previous reported sightings of the beast led to speculation that it might be a plesiosaur, a marine reptile which died out with the dinosaurs.
The team was convinced that such an animal could have survived in the cold waters of Loch Ness, despite the normal preference of marine reptiles for sub-tropical waters.
Looking for the lungs
The researchers looked at the habits of modern marine reptiles, such as crocodiles and leatherback turtles, to try to work out how a plesiosaur might have behaved.
They hoped the instruments aboard their search boat would pick up the air in Nessie's lungs as it reflected a distorted signal back to the sonar sensors.
The team did find a buoy moored several metres below the surface as a test for the equipment, but, in the end, no Loch Ness monster.
"We went from shoreline to shoreline, top to bottom on this one, we have covered everything in this loch and we saw no signs of any large living animal in the loch," said Ian Florence, one of the specialists who carried out the survey for the BBC.
His colleague Hugh MacKay added: "We got some good clear data of the loch, steep sided, flat bottomed - nothing unusual I'm afraid.
"There was an anticipation that we would come up with a large sonar anomaly that could have been a monster - but it wasn't to be."
The fence post monster
The BBC team says the only explanation for the persistence of the myth of the monster is that people see what they want to see.
Loch Ness: A beautiful place to visit - even without a monster
To prove this, the researchers hid a fence post beneath the surface of the loch and raised it in front of a coach party of tourists.
Interviewed afterwards, most said they had observed a square object but several drew monster-shaped heads when asked to sketch what they had seen.
The television programme detailing the investigation, Searching For The Loch Ness Monster, was made for BBC One.
oh and biohazard, you failed to bring up that point a long time ago, you may claim im 'reatrded' but you're just a slow, idiotic, fuck twit who can't bring up sufficient evidence. Oh, and i requested "Evidence" so i could prove them all wrong, or are you just scared in that matter.
I am talking about pymgy plesiosaurs, as they wouldn't be the same size they were millions of years ago, they would have evolved into smalled creatures.
While this was a good point a few decades ago, we now know that the Loch has more than enough fish to support up to 300 normal sized plesiosaurs.which outdated encyclopedia did you get this from?
Well, we have never been able to examine them, so this is merely a theory.well if havent been able to examine them, theres almost no way of telling they do exist
The bodies of their million year old ancestors, you mean.theres still no way of telling what kind of plessie, if they exsist, we're dealing with
Not to sound crude, but how would you know how high an evolved pygmy plesiosaurs neck raises?based on the way people depict them, of course, as its the only evidence of the plessie exsisting as of today
I need to look into that underwater tunnel thing more, I'm pretty sure there is evidence to support it....
No, not at all. It will take me a while to find it on the internet though.true, even i tried searching, it took me a nifty minute to find my info.
i believe in it, but im not actually saying its real, theres not enough evidence to back this up, and so says the GOV'T who trys to cover up evidence of intelligent life :P
One of the strongest things about it, is to say that there isn't some large, unknown creature it loch ness, then what accounts for thousands of sightings? To say that it doesn't exist, every single sighting must be a misidentification, if even one is a true report of something, then you are wrong, and there is something there.
One of the strongest things about it, is to say that there isn't some large, unknown creature it loch ness, then what accounts for thousands of sightings? To say that it doesn't exist, every single sighting must be a misidentification, if even one is a true report of something, then you are wrong, and there is something there.
Reason why may not see them is they avoid us, like all other sea creatures... It's like the Whale Shark you wouldn't know it was there unless you was in the water about 20 meters away from it, and it's massive...
Think of the size and depth of the ocean and the size of a Plesiosaur, then think of the size of a diver and how far they can see underwater...
Finding a Plesiosaur would be like finding a needle in a hay stack... doesn't mean it's not there... You can't prove there is a needle in a Hay stack... And the only thing we have to go on are peoples reports and crap photo's...
I would like to think the Plesiosaur or simular did make it through, and they are alive today... But common sense, scinece, and nature kind of goes against that theory...
I think it is possible. It is hard to believe that all animals were killed, especially those in water. All those theories of volcanoes, ice age, and blocking of the sun killed out most marine life, as we know today. So i think there is NO plesiosaur.
well, now ye be getting the RITE facts my friend, vote NO in the modern plesiosaurs topic
quote from onerayQuoteI think it is possible. It is hard to believe that all animals were killed, especially those in water. All those theories of volcanoes, ice age, and blocking of the sun killed out most marine life, as we know today. So i think there is NO plesiosaur.
edited quote, wow so many error, didnt bother to correct em all, i mean, whats the point of editing a quote, if they're just to lazy to READ the RECENT POSTS.
The difference, though, LOS, is that sharks are fish and plessies are reptiles. There is no way that a plessie would be able to survive 200 m underwater,for reasons I've stated again and again.
Rare Frilled Shark caught on tape in Japan
24 January 2007, 11:42:47 | Kanchan
The frilled shark, also known as a living fossil, a primitive species that has changed little since prehistoric times was spotted by a fisherman who thought that it was an eel like species.
He alerted the officials at the Awashima Marine Park in Numazu, who captured it and filmed it.
An official at the park is quoted to have said:
We believe moving pictures of a live specimen are extremely rare, They live between 600 and 1,000 meters under the water, which is deeper than humans can go.
The shark appeared to be in poor condition when park staff moved it to a seawater pool where they filmed it swimming and opening its jaws. Eventually it died. Unfortunately large numbers also die in the nets of bottom trawlers.
If they do exist, they would be an endangered species.
What's to say they aren't an endangered species?
How do we know, that there are more of them than there are of us, it's possible, and no one can change that fact, nor can one assume that they do exist, yet we can believe, and your strong will is more powerful than the media and science.like i said, theres insufficient evidence to prove they exist. Sure, a believer can grab info from an outdated encyclopedia, or pull info from a plessie fan site,
But how can you prove that they don't exist?
But certainly, there is more evidence out there proving that they exist, because no there are more believers than skeptics.sure, information from outdated encyclopedias, and plessie fan-sites, really are called evidence. Gee, i never knew pulling information out of your ass was considered evidence. :-\
Because on a subject like this, people who are interested in it, research it, and find more stuff about, people don't care about cryptology, if they did, we would have found these things along time ago.
But certainly, there is more evidence out there proving that they exist, because no there are more believers than skeptics.
Because on a subject like this, people who are interested in it, research it, and find more stuff about, people don't care about cryptology, if they did, we would have found these things along time ago.
QuoteBut certainly, there is more evidence out there proving that they exist, because no there are more believers than skeptics.sure, information from outdated encyclopedias, and plessie fan-sites, really are called evidence. Gee, i never knew pulling information out of your ass was considered evidence. :-\
QuoteThe difference, though, LOS, is that sharks are fish and plessies are reptiles. There is no way that a plessie would be able to survive 200 m underwater,for reasons I've stated again and again.
Humm... But then there's thing slike this:-
(https://rmrk.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.underwaterhangover.com%2Fimages%2Fgenimageaspx_45.jpg&hash=5a7ce29dab2bb5c7ea58274f9d21a50c9a2eaf1c)
(https://rmrk.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.underwaterhangover.com%2Fimages%2Ffrilled-shark_45.jpg&hash=502022e92cb86e7e1806f9184f81454c7414377e)QuoteRare Frilled Shark caught on tape in Japan
24 January 2007, 11:42:47 | Kanchan
The frilled shark, also known as a living fossil, a primitive species that has changed little since prehistoric times was spotted by a fisherman who thought that it was an eel like species.
He alerted the officials at the Awashima Marine Park in Numazu, who captured it and filmed it.
An official at the park is quoted to have said:
We believe moving pictures of a live specimen are extremely rare, They live between 600 and 1,000 meters under the water, which is deeper than humans can go.
The shark appeared to be in poor condition when park staff moved it to a seawater pool where they filmed it swimming and opening its jaws. Eventually it died. Unfortunately large numbers also die in the nets of bottom trawlers.
Or even the Whale shark that can go to those depth's... And if your argueement is they aint reptiles... Giant Sea Turtles can go to those depth's...
But you do raise an intresting point, and you could be right that an animal with such a long neck couldn't go to large depth's... But I am not so sure...
I was saying, that we have more evidence because skeptics don't research it
and people who believe it research it to find more proof about it
thusly, making the upper side of the hand go to the skeptical researchers....
People don't care about cryptology, only cryptologist's do. Or people who are interested in it.we have more skepticism than what a cryptozoologist gets paid for.
If more people cared about cryptology, I'm sure we would have spent lots of money on cryptology research. The Government, that is.
<Dr_Sword> Have you noticed that everything that has survived 25 million years (coelcanths, crocodiles) people go big woop, but when something dies 25 million years ago people are all like OMG OMG OMG OMG WANT
So really, this is a case of people going OMG WANT, and attempting to say "Hey look we got ourselves a dinosaur."
I CLAIM TOURIST PLOT, PEOPLE GO OMG WANT! They go to Scotland, dont see anything because it doesnt exist (anymore)
THAT WAY, they wont come to the big woop conclusion, and people will continue going to Scotland.
Other Plesiosaurs, you bet ya Im all for it. But Nesse is a psssh no. Dinosaurs cannot have a population in a lake without being seen. Thats like USA trying to hide from China
EDIT: DJANG BEAT MEH
<Dr_Sword> Have you noticed that everything that has survived 25 million years (coelcanths, crocodiles) people go big woop, but when something dies 25 million years ago people are all like OMG OMG OMG OMG WANT
So really, this is a case of people going OMG WANT, and attempting to say "Hey look we got ourselves a dinosaur."
I CLAIM TOURIST PLOT, PEOPLE GO OMG WANT! They go to Scotland, dont see anything because it doesnt exist (anymore)
THAT WAY, they wont come to the big woop conclusion, and people will continue going to Scotland.
Other Plesiosaurs, you bet ya Im all for it. But Nesse is a psssh no. Dinosaurs cannot have a population in a lake without being seen. Thats like USA trying to hide from China
EDIT: DJANG BEAT MEH
As for Sea creatures and dinosaurs making it through to modern day... I guess we have proof it can happen, with Sharks, Corc's, Lizards etc... So if we did find a Plessy, I wouldn't be shocked.
The main reason I beleive lots of "paranormal" things, is for them not to be true, hundreds-ten thousands of sightings would all have to be wrong, and if even one was actually seeing what they thought they were, then all the skeptics are wrong. It is a lot to disprove.