One of the many problems that arise with development of culture, size and technology, a civilization will start to exist outside the mainstream of "nature". When the ugly date the ugly, and normal people reproduce with the deformed the idea of natural selection cannot take place.
But it goes deeper then this, not only does positive evolution halt, the exact reverse will happen. Corrupted DNA will spread through all of society, slowly undoing all that nature has given us. Certain people had the idea to sterilise the "un-fit" and by doing so taking the "selection" into our own hands, which of course gave cause to such people as Hitler.
Even without natural selection, the idea of evolution becoming corrupted can still easily take place, DNA is passed from both parents, it also doesn't just "disappear". In nature, defected animals would simple not be given a chance to mate, thereby eliminating the negative, but when you live in a perverted society ( humanity being a perversion of nature ) this all falls apart. With no more "survival of the fittest" and no death of the weak, we will continue in a spiral of deformity.
While most people cringe at the idea of taking away human rights, scientifically the topic of sterilising the mentally handicapped is a hard one to debate, because science is typically neutral. When you remove morality from the subject ( morality being in many cases illogical ) it seems to be the only logical choice when faced with the alternative. After all, the needs of the many out way the needs of the few.
I agree whole-heartedly with what you said. Although; its not like we can stop anything.
Truth. We've started down this path, and this path is on an icy hill at an 80 degree angle. Best to just accept it at this point.
Why is this in Intelligent Debate? ?_? *moves*
I guess he wanted someone to reply intelligently; but after posting he relised he can't reply to his own statements ;8
Saucy is a girl. :B
Quote from: Blizzard on March 11, 2007, 05:19:18 PM
Why is this in Intelligent Debate? ?_? *moves*
Were else would it go..? This isn't chat around the water-cooler material.
Why would it go in general chat ?_?
Quote from: Darico on March 11, 2007, 05:22:51 PM
I guess she wanted someone to reply intelligently; but after posting she realised she can't reply to her own statements ;8
Yeh... Just thought I'd fix that...
QuoteAlthough; its not like we can stop anything.
We
could but it's unlikely to happen.
Quote from: Arrow-1 on March 11, 2007, 05:16:20 PM
Truth. We've started down this path, and this path is on an icy hill at a degree angle. Best to just accept it at this point.
Didn't someone say that about the USSR at some stage..?
I'm not sure how much sense it does. I agree with the theory, but killing off handicaped people and weak people? Is it really what we want?
Quote from: Blizzard on March 11, 2007, 05:48:30 PM
I'm not sure how much sense it does.
Corrupted evolution in general, or sterilisation..?
QuoteI agree with the theory, but killing off handicapped people and weak people?
It's not killing them, or limiting their lives, it has to do with stopping them from reproducing so that future generations won't become even worse off. They would live normal lives, and the idea is only referring to diagnosed mentally retarded people ( downs etc ) and I say that most of these people can't consent to sex ( in the same way a minor can't ) so really it's just stopping them from being abused more so.
QuoteIs it really what we want?
And that's why I posted it in the
debate section =)
Quote from: Deliciously_Saucy on March 11, 2007, 06:48:55 PM
QuoteIs it really what we want?
And that's why I posted it in the debate section =)
I lol'd. Anyway... with science going the way it is; we may be able to "cure" more diseases then ever before. Also now we can /change/ the coding of DNA; maybe they will disappear forever?
Quote from: Blizzard on March 11, 2007, 05:48:30 PM
I'm not sure how much sense it does. I agree with the theory, but killing off handicaped people and weak people? Is it really what we want?
in before holocaust
Meh, it's bound to happen sooner or later, because deep within, everyone who decides to be a politician is a facist.
Offtopic: :o I can give people reputation! *gives +'s to random people*
Deep down every politician is a person who was effected by everyone around them as they grew from childhood, and was thusly shaped by them. In essence, a politician is what we are in a more obvious form.
I agree with the basis of the theory, but I have to add that morals are as much a natural part of us as any other. I find it hard to believe that any human would just randomly decide to go completely against instinct and logic and create a new style of living. Being humans is both a gift and a curse of nature's, and I don't believe it was given to us lightly.
Nature is, after all, the most intelligent organism on the planet.
Besides, once technology advances a bit more, we could fix those genetic deformities ourselves or replace them with healthy genetic tissue, so that at least the next generation would live a healthy life.
Why attempt to follow with the now-restraining bounds of nature? We have the gift of progress; let us make a society both harmonious and compassionate, but change only that of nature which requires change.
God, I ramble.
This may be sort of necro posting (a week), but I disagree. For one thing with the topic title, it is definitely not natural selection. As for reverse, it's just not. The idea of natural selection is that the genes of the un-select do not procreate, which is the exactly the suggestion you propose. I disagree that natural selection is unable to occur. Natural selection only occurs under two conditions: need and random mutations. Without need, the beneficial mutations will not be spread through the populace, but they also do not go away. So, if the need should arise, there will still be the lucky people who have genes to suit the need. This is not affected by the existence of people who do not have the genes that will help them survive should need arise. Natural selection does not kill off the weakest in every generation, as you seem to suggest, but rather it kills off the weakest when need arises, and the weakest is determined by the need. Also, you seem to be implying in your argument that "mentally handicapped" by neccesity makes them weakest. This is only the case in a world which rejects the infirm: i.e. a world that would be created were we to sterilize them. Should a need arise for natural selection (say, a disease that spreads rapidly), it is just as possible for a mentally handicapped person to develop an immunity as it is for any other person, and in that case, the mentally handicapped would become the fit, and regular people the weak.
They are not really corrupting the gene pool, as there are not enough of them to do so, and furthermore, most mentally handicapped people are born from regular parents, and their handicaps are not genetic, but results of things which happened during their development. So, were they to procreate, they would not pass on a harmful gene. We will not continue in a spiral of deformity. I assume you are referring to lesser intellect as the deformity, but if anything, humanity has gotten succesively smarter with each generation. Also, there is no such thing as de-evolution, and deformity is not a natural term. If some disaster caused the forest to turn white, then albino animals be the 'select' and other creatures will be the ones to die. Deformity is situational only.
On a moral level,I believe it to be wrong to define a class of people as inferior and to prohibit them from reproducing because they belong to that class. Despite a lack of intellect, the mentally handicapped are still people, loved and capable of loving: and denying them the ability to have children is reprehensible to me. So I disagree with you.
Don't worry, necro is only 2 months+.
BTW, if they are needed, mutations are not random. Only "normal" mutations are random. If they show to be maybe useful, they start mutating further which isn't "random" mutation anymore, but something called addaption.
And humans didn't get any "smarter" in the last 30000 years, only their knowledge today is greater. That's why it seems we we be smarter than earlier.
Did you know that there are many mentally handicapped who have actually a great intelligence? If you watched the movie "Cube" you will know what I mean. Peolpe might look totally handicapped, but they could be incredible genioused in one specific area and this is actually very often the case.
I agree with the last part.