Sightings of Plesiosaurs world over your opinions or sightings ?

Do you think the Lochness Monster could be real ?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loch_Ness_Monster

There have been sightings of Plesiosaurs world over...

North Carolina in 1970. The corpse

http://www.accuracyingenesis.com/plesios.html

More images of dead ones found near New Zealand:-
http://www.mbowden.surf3.net/plsfin13.htm

Pictures through out History around the world:-
http://www.subversiveelement.com/Plesiosaurs1.html

Could it be that Plesiosaurs could still be alive today, like the coelacanth fish, thought to have lived and died out around the same time, now found alive and a fair few of them at that...?

i believe in it, but im not actually saying its real, theres not enough evidence to back this up, and so says the GOV'T who trys to cover up evidence of intelligent life 

I truely beleive that the Loch Ness Monster is some sort of evolved, or pymgy plesiosaur.  I don't think, however, that pictures of "globsters" as they are called, are plesiosaur corpses (not most of them anyway).  When a shark dies, the bottom half of its jaw is always the first thing to rot off, making it have the appearance of a large bodied creature, with a long neck.  How could that not account for a "plesiosaur" corpse?  I think that there are thousands of creatures in the ocean that we have not yet documented.

I agree with Bio. A lot is possible when it comes to the sea.

The Loch Ness Monster has never really been anything I believed existed. Well, that whole urban legend anyway. However, a creature similar to that existing isn't really too far-fetched. I'm sure there are all sorts of things underwater that exist that we have no idea is there.

Sure, but I doubt we'd miss the fucking Loch Ness Monster after all this searching.
They kind of died out millions of years ago, if they hadn't we would've noticed more populations of plesiosaurs as of late.
I used to be into cryptozoology, but even then I didn't accept such things as Nessie and Bigfoot. If there are any cryptids worth talking about its the more obscure ones from credible sources.

How can you possibly say that bigfoot does not exist, it is the cryptid with BY far the most evidence, I don't care how credible the source is.  The loch ness monster, (plesiosaurs), died out millions of years ago, you say?  So did the coelacanth, until 1998 when it was finally noticed to still be alive. 

How can you possibly say that bigfoot does not exist, it is the cryptid with BY far the most evidence, I don't care how credible the source is.  The loch ness monster, (plesiosaurs), died out millions of years ago, you say?  So did the coelacanth, until 1998 when it was finally noticed to still be alive. 

It takes at most 30 seconds to find out that coelacanth was rediscovered in 1938.

Nessie killer: if the Loch Ness monster was real there would have to be a population viable enough to last for 65 million years. If there were 100 pleisosaurs in the lake at any one time then people would see them surface for air every day.

The coelacanth isn't a good creature to compare to pleisosaurs. One breaths air, the other breathes water. One is big by fish standards, the other is just big. One lives deep in the water, the other surfaces regularly. Which one would you expect to be found first?

Saladin raises a very good point... I guess I am being overly hope-full... (Surface was a cool TV show...)

I think Halo also rasies a good point, there could be creatures simular, like a long necked turtle or some thing ?

The coelacanth isn't a good creature to compare to pleisosaurs. One breaths air, the other breathes water. One is big by fish standards, the other is just big. One lives deep in the water, the other surfaces regularly. Which one would you expect to be found first?

If there were a modern plesiosaur, there's no way you could know if it has gone through some kind of evolution, just like most other animals. Who's to say it wouldn't breathe underwater?

Holkeye - Some people that reported seeing these sea creatures state it looked like a seal, but larger with a long neck... Plesiosaurs are reptile's to a degree, aquatic marine reptiles...

I would like to think they did make it I mean crocodiles did...?

There are many kinds of Pesiosaurs... some would be more hardy than others... But I still think Saladin is correct, they would have to surface, and it's not like they are small creatures, I think we would have seen more of them... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plesiosaur

Nessie killer: if the Loch Ness monster was real there would have to be a population viable enough to last for 65 million years. If there were 100 pleisosaurs in the lake at any one time then people would see them surface for air every day.

Actually, what Holk said is right, and it has been proven.  Many plesiousaur skeletons have been found that have a hole on the top of their skull, probably for breathing, so all they have to do is graze the top of the water, you could be 5 feet away and notice nothing.  Same as the theory that was put forth, that said that there wouldn't even be enough fish to support 1 plesiosaur, until sonar scans and we found that 300 could be supported.  And another reason they might not be seen as often, is the underwater tunnels that supposedly connect the loch to the ocean.

Actually, what Holk said is right, and it has been proven.  Many plesiousaur skeletons have been found that have a hole on the top of their skull, probably for breathing, so all they have to do is graze the top of the water, you could be 5 feet away and notice nothing.  Same as the theory that was put forth, that said that there wouldn't even be enough fish to support 1 plesiosaur, until sonar scans and we found that 300 could be supported.  And another reason they might not be seen as often, is the underwater tunnels that supposedly connect the loch to the ocean.

Brilliant... My faith in the Nessy has returned... Thanks Bio

Both sides of this debate have good argueements for and against... I want to hold hope that one day we will find a creature of myth and ledgend alive and kicking... It will open so much more to the way we look at our own planet...

Imagine if we did find a few of these creatures alive today, what changes that would bring about... I mean for a start off Christians would have to re-write their bibles...LOL

mmm... yeah... lets not get religion into this. Besides, if nessie did actually exist, it'd be dead by now, because if you look at it, the first sighting of nessie was a looooooooong time ago, when a priest put nessie to halt when it was attacking a man. It all really depends on the life span of the plesiosaur. Yeah sure, people 'thought' they saw nessie, but most of those photos are fake, for example, the one with the long neck, is a toy sauropod (Sauropods were the ones with long necks, lived on land, and were herbivores). Also, if nessie existed, we would be able to find animal droppings on the lake bed. to prove nessie doesnt exist, we'd have to look at food levels (such as fish, reptiles, any thing of the like) before nessie was spotted, and after she was spotted.

and opposed to the ceolacanth, im sure other fish died out millions of years ago 

I'd post some pictures, but sorry, my aquaphobia obstructs my viewing of underwater photos, and anything else that depicts the ocean.

But who knows, the possibilities are endless, we have yet to learn from this amazing planet.

mmm... yeah... lets not get religion into this. Besides, if nessie did actually exist, it'd be dead by now, because if you look at it, the first sighting of nessie was a looooooooong time ago, when a priest put nessie to halt when it was attacking a man. It all really depends on the life span of the plesiosaur. Yeah sure, people 'thought' they saw nessie, but most of those photos are fake, for example, the one with the long neck, is a toy sauropod (Sauropods were the ones with long necks, lived on land, and were herbivores). Also, if nessie existed, we would be able to find animal droppings on the lake bed. to prove nessie doesnt exist, we'd have to look at food levels (such as fish, reptiles, any thing of the like) before nessie was spotted, and after she was spotted.

There isn't ONE plesiousaur, or ONE bigfoot, dumbshit.  And the person who took the most famous Nessie photo, I'm assuming this is what you are talking about, said that they used a model made of out plasticwood.  They said this, and it wasn't invented at the time the pictures were taken, and the second, much rarer, photo showed a bend in the neck. 

There isn't ONE plesiousaur, or ONE bigfoot, dumbshit.

so... mister dumbshit, do you have any evidence as to if there were several of these cryptids? sure people saw em all over the place, but we dont know if there's one or just many, all i know is that these cryptids will probably die out sometime if theres only one of em, animals cant be immortal. its just a matter of time before we find out, and what do these things actually do to benefit our society.

oh, and if you're finding this useless crap on wikipedia, you're wrong. wikipedia is editable by anybody, thus, the information can be false.

and since when did we talk about big foot, aren't we talking about plesiosaurs?

bends in the neck proves nothing actually, i mean, you could realy be looking at a submerged tree trunk that has a bend in it.

A bend that changes between two pictures take in a matter of seconds.  Not once have I went to Wikipedia, and I reserve the right to call you a dumbshit, because if you think that it is the same one bigfoot, or the same one plesiosaur, that people have reported for hundreds of years, then that makes you grade A dumsbhit.

Ruhani, just gtfo. You lost.

if there were shitloads of em, then why must they hide from the human eye? oh, and im not saying that there is one sasquatch or plessy, if there were multiple beings, then why aren't we able to document them? take notes of them, watch them in their daily habitats, all im saying is....

i believe in nessy, and i hope it does surface some day so we could actually get footage of it. its just that some shit heads want to 'fake' those videos. theres not enough evidence to back up the claim that a nessy is actually in the loch, and even if there were other plessies in the world, we'd at least discover some by now. technology has grown so useful, its easy nowathese days to make up and image of nessy, or make footage of it.

by the way, i must ask this question, in what places do you think plessies could be found?

Debate is a formalized system of (usually) logical argument. Rules governing debate allow groups and individuals to discuss and decide issues and differences. Debate is a common process in deliberative bodies such as parliaments, legislative assemblies, and meetings of all sorts. Outcomes of debates may be decided by voting, by judges, or by combination of both.

so theres no winning or losing in debating.

read this article from BBC

Ok folks. Show's over. Nothing to see here. Move along. Nessie has left
the building...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/3096839.stm

 

Spoiler for:

A BBC team says it has shown there is no such thing as the Loch Ness
 monster.

as for modern plessies, no article can be found on that, but the BBC article could explain for all.

 Using 600 separate sonar beams and satellite navigation technology to
 ensure that none of the loch was missed, the team surveyed the waters
 said to hide Scotland's legendary tourist attraction but found no trace
 of the monster.
 ...
 The researchers looked at the habits of modern marine reptiles, such as
 crocodiles and leatherback turtles, to try to work out how a plesiosaur
 might have behaved.

 They hoped the instruments aboard their search boat would pick up the air
 in Nessie's lungs as it reflected a distorted signal back to the sonar
 sensors.
 ...
 "We went from shoreline to shoreline, top to bottom on this one, we have
 covered everything in this loch and we saw no signs of any large living
 animal in the loch," said Ian Florence, one of the specialists who
 carried out the survey for the BBC.

 His colleague Hugh MacKay added: "We got some good clear data of the
 loch, steep sided, flat bottomed - nothing unusual I'm afraid."
 ...
 The BBC team says the only explanation for the persistence of the myth of
 the monster is that people see what they want to see.
 
 To prove this, the researchers hid a fence post beneath the surface of
 the loch and raised it in front of a coach party of tourists.

 Interviewed afterwards, most said they had observed a square object but
 several drew monster-shaped heads when asked to sketch what they had
 seen.

 The television programme detailing the investigation, Searching For The
 Loch Ness Monster, was made for BBC One.

(at least they didn't call it Walking With Nessie)

Debate is a formalized system of (usually) logical argument. Rules governing debate allow groups and individuals to discuss and decide issues and differences. Debate is a common process in deliberative bodies such as parliaments, legislative assemblies, and meetings of all sorts. Outcomes of debates may be decided by voting, by judges, or by combination of both.

http://www.angelfire.com/stars3/education/debate.html

I can use google, too.

Its still possible that there would be a close relative to the plesiosaur, as well as other primordial beings, living deep within the ocean. Its true that most sightings are false, but as with many things we discuss in here, we just don't know yet.

Guys... We are talking about a Plesiosaurs, no need to flame each other... Neither of you are Dumb shits... Both raise fairly good points.

There are thousands of Giant turtles, yet they are very rarely sighted... Many sea creatures know the sound of a boat engine and are long gone before the divers get in the water, nessy type monsters have been reported throught out history, so it could be they fear man.

Plesiosaurs are not great preditors, they can eat fish and at best seals... They are no match for sharks... It would make sense to me for them to travel inland, like the amazon, or the loch ness in scotland (there's underground caves)... But there is not enough food there to support a creature of it's size for long, so I would imagine it does travel out to sea, but may be a short stints... (Link talking about the Loch ness:- http://www.strangemag.com/roguenessie.html)

If you want to speak about other creatures that have been myth and then found alive here's some thing I found:-

Discoveries of new animal species are not common, but this happens more frequently than people believe. The okapi, sometimes called the ghost of the jungle, and the mountain gorilla were both discovered in Africa in the early 1900s. The kouprey, a mountain ox, was discovered in 1937 in the forests of Southeast Asia. It is critically endangered and is found in Cambodia and believed to be extinct in Laos and Viet Nam. A coelacanth, believed to be extinct, was caught off of the coast of Africa in 1938. The megamouth shark was discovered off of the Hawaiian coast in 1976.

People have sighted sea, river and lake serpents globally. Probably the most famous is Nessie of Loch Ness, Scotland. In the United States, lake serpents include South Bay Bessie (Lake Erie, PA), Champ (Lake Champlain, NY), Winnie (Lake Winnipesaukee, NH), Tessie (Lake Tahoe, NV-CA borders), Chessie (Chesapeake Bay, VA), Hodgee (Lake Hodges, CA) and the un-nicknamed lake monsters in Lakes Norman (NC), Flathead (MT) and Murray (SC). There is also Sylvie in Silver Lake, California, not to be confused with the Silver Lake, NY serpent. Most of these serpents have only local or regional fame.
From the descriptions offered by witnesses, lake serpents could be plesiosaurs, a dinosaur believed to be extinct, as was the case with the coelacanth. Obviously, they could be an elusive species of an aquatic animal that has been sighted, but not captured alive, killed or found dead so scientists could classify and categorize the animals. To some totally skeptical people the sightings are hallucinations, optical illusions like mirages, drug induced visions or outright hoaxes

People have tried to offer explanations as to what the actual sighted monster was, as in the case of the White River monster, Whitey. Roy Mackal, a biologist, proposed that Whitey is an elephant seal who managed to swim up the Mississippi. The males can grow to be up to 17 feet long. Interesting theory, however, however, a seal would have to swim from its natural habitat in California and Baja California, then through the Panama Canal to the Atlantic Ocean to get to the big river. Another flaw in this thought is that seals are pinnipeds that use their flippers to navigate on land. They do not leave three toed tracks as Whitey did.

Giant otters have also been theorized to account for lake serpent sightings. It has been suggested that they swim in a groups and, when in formation, can be mistaken for a serpent. Other suggestions are unusually large specimens of sturgeon or catfish.

BACK TO TOPIC

The Silver Lake serpent defied all of these possible theories and explanations and was in a class by itself. The Seneca tribe believed there was a monster in Silver Lake and they would not swim in it. The settlers, most likely, thought this was superstition. They had not seen anything unusual in the lake until a summer night in 1885.

On July 13th, 1885, a moonlit night, Joseph McKnight, Charles Hall and Alonzo and Charles Scribner were in a boat in Silver Lake, trying to catch catfish. McKnight saw something large that he called the other men's attention to. It looked like a huge log. It disappeared and they gave it no more thought and continued their fishing. Suddenly, the log reappeared closer to the boat and began to move in a serpentine manner toward it. In the moonlight, they could see that the log was a serpent. The men grabbed the oars in panic and rowed away from it as fast as they could. They went toward the end of the lake opposite from their homes and left the boat there. The quartet had to walk two miles to their homes. The trip across the lake was only half a mile, but there was no way they would get in the boat, in that lake and row across it with what they saw in it.

The next day, they signed notarized statements attesting as to what they saw. Their friends joked with them and said they must have been drinking. There was no way a 60 foot serpent lived in the lake!

Within several weeks, at least a hundred people saw the serpent. The townspeople formed a vigilante committee to kill it. Word spread and people came to Silver Lake in hopes of catching a glimpse of the serpent. They ranged from curiosity seekers to hunters to a whaling man who brought his lances and harpoons with him to deal with the creature.

Hotels did not have room enough for the tourists and people rented rooms in their homes to them. Business increased and an air of excitement filled the quiet resort town.

They the last sighting of the creature was in the late summer of 1885.

For the next two years, people still flocked to Perry in hopes that they would see the Silver Lake serpent. There was speculation as to why it disappeared in1885. Did it die? Was it in hibernation? Could there have been underground streams that it swam away from the lake in?

In 1857, the question of what caused the disappearance of the creature was answered. A. B. Walker's hotel, the Walker House caught on fire. When the firemen reached the attic, they found something curious. It was about 60 feet long, made of waterproof canvas with coils inside. Weights were attached to it at intervals. There were a hose and large bellows to inflate it and ropes to move it with. This was what was left of the Silver Lake serpent.
A. B. Walker wanted to increase his hotel business. He may have thought that summer would be a slow one. Perhaps he remembered the old Seneca legend and was inspired.

He, with some trusted friends, created the monster out of cloth and wire. In the darkness of the night, they took the fake serpent to the lake and silently placed it in there. The bellows and hose provided the air to make it rise up out of the water and submerge. The weights gave it the serpentine motion. The ropes made it move through the water.

Walker and his friends enjoyed the excitement their monster had created. The hotel keeper also enjoyed the increased business. It was fun. What a great practical joke and the results it created! Then, they had a few narrow escapes while navigating their monster through the waters of the lake or taking it there and back, during which they were nearly discovered with it.

The men thought about what could happen if their hoax was discovered. They began to worry how the people would react once they found out they had been deceived. This is why the Silver Lake serpent made its final appearance in late summer.

Several years ago, I read that Walker made a very hasty exit from the town fearing repercussions after the hoax was discovered.

There are still some today who believe the serpent was real and write about its validity despite compelling evidence to the contrary. One imaginative writer said that it was impossible to have been a fake because the monster's eyes glowed like fire.

In the course of my research, I found a website that calls the monster "Sylvie" and compares it to Nessie. No state was mentioned on the website, but there was a link to a local mall. This Silver Lake is in Los Angeles. At least this one is not perpetuating a fraud, but I am surprised the webmistress did not research lake serpents and find out about the Silver Lake monster hoax.

As for the town of Perry, there is an annual Sea Serpent Balloon Festival commemorating the hoax.

if there were shitloads of em, then why must they hide from the human eye?
Our anscestors, I forget the scientific name, wiped out their anscestors nearly to extinction oh, and im not saying that there is one sasquatch or plessy, if there were multiple beings, then why aren't we able to document them? Because they are HARD TO FIND.... dumbshit.take notes of them, watch them in their daily habitats, all im saying is....

i believe in nessy, and i hope it does surface some day so we could actually get footage of it. its just that some shit heads want to 'fake' those videos. theres not enough evidence to back up the claim that a nessy is actually in the loch, and even if there were other plessies in the world, we'd at least discover some by now. We have only explored something like under 5% of the ocean, and most boats never go off their shipping routes, which animals would avoid. technology has grown so useful, its easy nowathese days to make up and image of nessy, or make footage of it. Do you carry a camera or a camcorder with you all the time?

by the way, i must ask this question, in what places do you think plessies could be found?  Any deep water, or places off the shipping routes.

so theres no winning or losing in debating. You proved your own theory wrong by losing.

 Using 600 separate sonar beams and satellite navigation technology to
 ensure that none of the loch was missed, the team surveyed the waters
 said to hide Scotland's legendary tourist attraction but found no trace
 of the monster.  Once again, it comes back to the underwater tunnels that they would probably use to get into the loch for mating purposes, and the fact that EXTREME SONAR all through the loch would make them get out as fast as possible.
 ...

Our anscestors, I forget the scientific name, wiped out their anscestors nearly to extinction

[/b]
so we did with the dodo, your point?

Because they are HARD TO FIND.... dumbshit.

[/b]
hey if dodos were hard to find, how'd we know about them now? People have actually gone out of their way to document this creature.

We have only explored something like under 5% of the ocean, and most boats never go off their shipping routes, which animals would avoid.

[/b]hey, if scientists and explorers minded their own business, we wouldn't have discovered half the animals we know today.

Do you carry a camera or a camcorder with you all the time?

[/b]
nope, but i bet HOAXERS do 

Any deep water, or places off the shipping routes.

[/b]

if plessies lived in deep water, they wouldn't have a blow hole. And marine mammals stay near the surface or in the middle of oceans and seas. Marine mammals aren't considered fish, that they can go live in deep water. Else they'd run out of oxygen before even getting to the surface to breath. (someone did mention blowholes). and plus it depends how far off shipping routes, because sonars can detect those animals.

interesting how all these serpants are found in lakes, so im presuming hoaxers use them as reference for their made up encounters, but then again...

theres a possibility of finding these docile creatures, its just idiots and the mentally unstable do anything to prove they actually do exist. If you want these magnificent creatures to be sighted, people need to stop taking advantage of them, and actually go look for them. some people have gone hunting them, and all came out unsuccessful.

its true, that these plessies might have undergone evolutionary changes, so thats why maybe they can hide from the 'naked' eye.

You proved your own theory wrong by losing.

[/b]
as opposed to losing because you and holk said so?

Once again, it comes back to the underwater tunnels that they would probably use to get into the loch for mating purposes, and the fact that EXTREME SONAR all through the loch would make them get out as fast as possible.

[/b]

most marine mammals can't resist the sound of extreme sonar, or generally just sonar, because it irritates their blowholes (if any), and thus, it forces them to be stranded on shores, and they can walk back, but if they were to be stranded, theres a high possibility of near by residents spotting them.

Loch Ness monster... It has been proved countless times that it cannot exist in that lake, for obvious reasons.

Plesiosaurs... There will always exist the possibility of prehistoric species still roaming Earth, somewhere.

obvious reasons.

List them, and I will tell you why you are wrong.  You better not get religous on me.

How can you possibly say that bigfoot does not exist, it is the cryptid with BY far the most evidence, I don't care how credible the source is.

If you're going to give me evidence, which I'd love, please to be giving me credible evidence.

List them, and I will tell you why you are wrong.  You better not get religous on me.

Stop stealing my schtick you fuckwit.

Stop stealing my schtick you fuckwit.

Your schtick?  I was here way before you.  We should rename this topic to "Crypto critters" or something similar, because I want to talk about animals unknown to science, other than bigfoot and nessie.

Still my shtick.

EVIDENCE PLEASE

List them, and I'll tell you why you are wrong. You better not get atheistic on me.

I fail to see how atheism would help me prove the existence of plesiosaurs...

And I fail to see how religion would help anyone prove it.

Religion could help you disprove it.

OH... No... Please lets not bring Jesus and the Bible into this, or Iraq for that matter...LOL

It's not really about proving...

It's more do you think, sort of thread ?

For example...

I think there could be creatures we have not yet found in the sea, but the likely hood of the Plesiosaur being one of them is unlikely... I mean reason being is the enviroment has changed so much it too would have had to changed its self... It will no doubt be smaller, be able to stay sub-merged longer, be quicker, and more tolerant... I also think if a creature like this was to be aound it would have been spotted before now, but then again, what if some of these sightings are the creature in question... I suppose a Plesiosaur type creature could still roam the sea's, it's not beyond the realms of possiabilty...

land of shadows is right, what are the chances of a plessy living in an environment non-suitable for historic creatures, heck, WHY ELSE DO THEY CALL THEM CRYPTIDS.... creatures on the verge of extinction, yet people 'claim' they see them. Pfft, if they were almost going extinct, how come i don't see them on the 'endangered species list'. Also, the skeptisism of this article overthrows your opinions in this matter, bio. If plessies have undergone evolutionary changes, im sure they would've gone through changes in way that'll help them get discovered. Also, post all your 'factual evidence' about this plessie, and ill prove them ALL wrong, its fucking sad how people who 'believe' in the plessy don't have scientifically proven evidence of this creature, i mean really, thats like saying, i encountered a UFO, but i have no photos of it, because the gov't took it away from me. 

Ruhani, you sure you know what a cryptid is or am I just misinterpreting your post?
Also, why is cobragamer banned from this forum but not Elegy?

Because people love to hate me.

Evolution killed bambi's mother!!

Besides, if nessie did actually exist, it'd be dead by now, because if you look at it, the first sighting of nessie was a looooooooong time ago, when a priest put nessie to halt when it was attacking a man. It all really depends on the life span of the plesiosaur.

Sorry Ruhani, I can't bring myself to argue with a retarded kid anymore, sorry.

sorry, im not retarded just because you say so



Cryptozoology is the study of rumored or mythological animals that are "presumed (at least by the researcher) to exist", but for which conclusive proof does not yet exist; or "are generally considered extinct", but occasionally reported. Those who study or search for such animals are called cryptozoologists, while the hypothetical creatures involved are referred to by some as "cryptids".

ma bad hehe 

oh and gon, you might've misinterpreted my post 
notice how i said, "people claimed to have seen them" it relevates to the quotes in the defenition

oh and biohazard, you failed to bring up that point a long time ago, you may claim im 'reatrded' but you're just a slow, idiotic, fuck twit who can't bring up sufficient evidence. Oh, and i requested "Evidence" so i could prove them all wrong, or are you just scared in that matter.

Face it, we have more people who don't believe in plesiosaur sightings, more than people who do, and even if you do manage to get some evidence, what are the chances of it, being proven wrong.

swearing doesn't make you sound smarter. Quite the opposite, actually.

you may claim im 'reatrded'

I can't bring myself to argue with you anymore, I am above it.

Ruhani's acting pretty retarded, but that's just his personality.

you may claim im 'reatrded'

I can't bring myself to argue with you anymore, I am above it.

im sorry, did i hear an echo?

and that the was the only mistake you found in my 'raetrded' posts, i guess that kills the view of being retarded after all.


anyways.........


an animal can't stay elusive for long, it winds up being caught, like other criminals eluding the law. Theres insufficient evidence to prove it actually exists.

BBC 'proves' Nessie does not exist
 
 
What we would like to believe
A BBC team says it has shown there is no such thing as the Loch Ness monster.
Using 600 separate sonar beams and satellite navigation technology to ensure that none of the loch was missed, the team surveyed the waters said to hide Scotland's legendary tourist attraction but found no trace of the monster.

Previous reported sightings of the beast led to speculation that it might be a plesiosaur, a marine reptile which died out with the dinosaurs.

The team was convinced that such an animal could have survived in the cold waters of Loch Ness, despite the normal preference of marine reptiles for sub-tropical waters.

Looking for the lungs

The researchers looked at the habits of modern marine reptiles, such as crocodiles and leatherback turtles, to try to work out how a plesiosaur might have behaved.

They hoped the instruments aboard their search boat would pick up the air in Nessie's lungs as it reflected a distorted signal back to the sonar sensors.

 
The team did find a buoy moored several metres below the surface as a test for the equipment, but, in the end, no Loch Ness monster.

"We went from shoreline to shoreline, top to bottom on this one, we have covered everything in this loch and we saw no signs of any large living animal in the loch," said Ian Florence, one of the specialists who carried out the survey for the BBC.

His colleague Hugh MacKay added: "We got some good clear data of the loch, steep sided, flat bottomed - nothing unusual I'm afraid.

"There was an anticipation that we would come up with a large sonar anomaly that could have been a monster - but it wasn't to be."

The fence post monster

The BBC team says the only explanation for the persistence of the myth of the monster is that people see what they want to see.

 
Loch Ness: A beautiful place to visit - even without a monster
To prove this, the researchers hid a fence post beneath the surface of the loch and raised it in front of a coach party of tourists.

Interviewed afterwards, most said they had observed a square object but several drew monster-shaped heads when asked to sketch what they had seen.

The television programme detailing the investigation, Searching For The Loch Ness Monster, was made for BBC One.
 

No tunnels to the sea, I'm afraid. The loch is a bit higher than sea level, so if there was a direct connection, the water would drain ut until the loch was at sea level.

The only connection to the sea is through the locks and channels on either end. These are carefully monitored by the people who work the systems, and it would be hard to miss a thirty foot sea beasty endangering the ships waiting to pass through.

I'm rather skeptical of Nessie, since unless young 'nessies' were somehow coming either up the river from the ocean, or down the river from the sources of whatever drains into Loch Ness (all, mind you, without being detected by humans living near those rivers), there would need to be a population of these things, in order for them to breed without degenerating from inbreeding. That would probably overload Loch Ness's ecosystem.

and biohazard, you dont have to argue with me if you dont want to, let the others post their thoughts and opinions.

oh and biohazard, you failed to bring up that point a long time ago, you may claim im 'reatrded' but you're just a slow, idiotic, fuck twit who can't bring up sufficient evidence. Oh, and i requested "Evidence" so i could prove them all wrong, or are you just scared in that matter.

That part made me LOL, no offense bio

In Lochness there is an inlet and out let to the sea, I mean there are traces of salt and sea fish within the loch... There are many reasons why a Plesiosaur would not want to be within the Loch, but then there are other reasons why it would travel inland... May be to lay an egg or have it's young.

Reason why may not see them is they avoid us, like all other sea creatures... It's like the Whale Shark you wouldn't know it was there unless you was in the water about 20 meters away from it, and it's massive...

Think of the size and depth of the ocean and the size of a Plesiosaur, then think of the size of a diver and how far they can see underwater...

Finding a Plesiosaur would be like finding a needle in a hay stack... doesn't mean it's not there... You can't prove there is a needle in a Hay stack... And the only thing we have to go on are peoples reports and crap photo's...

I would like to think the Plesiosaur or simular did make it through, and they are alive today... But common sense, scinece, and nature kind of goes against that theory...

an animal can't stay elusive for long, The panda bear was not known the western world until nearly 1900, and the biggest beetle on earth, the Titan Longhorn, wasn't discovered until fairly recently, and the giant squid was only proven to exist about six months ago, so saying an animal can't stay elusive for long is the most blatantly wrong thing you could post.it winds up being caught, like other criminals eluding the law.
Animals aren't criminals, and they aren't evading the law. Theres insufficient evidence to prove it actually exists. wrong again, my retard friend!

No tunnels to the sea, I'm afraid. The loch is a bit higher than sea level, so if there was a direct connection, the water would drain ut until the loch was at sea level.

The only connection to the sea is through the lochs and channels on either end. These are carefully monitored by the people who work the systems, and it would be hard to miss a thirty foot or it could be babies the size of your hand. sea beasty endangering the ships why would they endanger the ships? waiting to pass through.

I'm rather skeptical of Nessie, since unless young 'nessies' were somehow coming either up the river from the ocean, or down the river from the sources of whatever drains into Loch Ness (all, mind you, without being detected by humans living near those rivers), there would need to be a population of these things, in order for them to breed without degenerating from inbreeding. That would probably overload Loch Ness's ecosystem.
There are several reports of nessie on the roads around the loch, most of them relatively beleivable.

and biohazard, you dont have to argue with me if you dont want to, let the others post their thoughts and opinions.
Ah, but I have to inform the uninformed with true information, not whatever it is you spew out.

Ruhani is right about the Loch. If there were underwater tunnels, it would be obvious, especially if they were large enough to allow an animal of such size to pass easily through.

Also, the anatomy of the plesiosaur is pretty much key evidence that one couldn't live in the loch.

To counter your argument against the babies being the size of a human hand? Plesiosaurs most likely had live young, meaning that these young were probably quite a bit larger than you're thinking they are. And then, there would have to be more than just a few plessies, like Saladin said, to keep the population up and, although the Loch Ness is large, it is not large enough and does not provide enough food to support plessies, or keep them from attacking each other during things like territorial disputes, which would probably happen between them, them being as large as they are. Loch Ness also has a high peat content. Visibility in its water is very poor, and that would mean th plessies'd have to have some sort of sonar/echolocation sort of things, and their bodies don't  provide evidence of that at all. In relation to that, if plessies did live in the Loch Ness, the sonar conducted in it wouldn't really affect them. Not to mention if there were underwater tunnels, if, like Ruhani said, they hadn't caused the lake to drain at least a little, they would have at least been picked up by radar/sonar, don't you figure?

Then, it couldn't support them very well because they were reptiles- it doesn't seem the loch is warm enough these days to keep the plessies at a good temperature. Same with deep waters. They're too cold and too dark for plessies.

Also, the fact that some plessie skulls have holes in the top means absolutely nothing. Alligator skulls have holes at the top, and so do snakes'. They do not have blow holes. There isn't enough room in their heads for one, and have you ever seen any animal with a blow hole in its head like that?

In regards to any of the "Nessie" photos? The ones you claim could have real couldn't have been, simply because of the vertical neck. True, it is very serpentine, but the backbone was really rigid, and the neck couldn't raise up at that angle.

Also, bored of thinking up responses. Needless to say, plessies don't live in the Loch Ness these days. Or, you know, at all.

Ruhani is right about the Loch. If there were underwater tunnels, it would be obvious, especially if they were large enough to allow an animal of such size to pass easily through.

Also, the anatomy of the plesiosaur is pretty much key evidence that one couldn't live in the loch.

To counter your argument against the babies being the size of a human hand? Plesiosaurs most likely had live young, meaning that these young were probably quite a bit larger than you're thinking they are. I am talking about pymgy plesiosaurs, as they wouldn't be the same size they were millions of years ago, they would have evolved into smalled creatures. And then, there would have to be more than just a few plessies, like Saladin said, to keep the population up and, although the Loch Ness is large, it is not large enough and does not provide enough food to support plessies, While this was a good point a few decades ago, we now know that the Loch has more than enough fish to support up to 300 normal sized plesiosaurs. or keep them from attacking each other during things like territorial disputes, which would probably happen between them, them being as large as they are. Well, we have never been able to examine them, so this is merely a theory. Loch Ness also has a high peat content. Visibility in its water is very poor, and that would mean th plessies'd have to have some sort of sonar/echolocation sort of things, and their bodies don't  provide evidence of that at all. The bodies of their million year old ancestors, you mean. In relation to that, if plessies did live in the Loch Ness, the sonar conducted in it wouldn't really affect them. Not to mention if there were underwater tunnels, if, like Ruhani said, they hadn't caused the lake to drain at least a little, they would have at least been picked up by radar/sonar, don't you figure?

Then, it couldn't support them very well because they were reptiles- it doesn't seem the loch is warm enough these days to keep the plessies at a good temperature. Same with deep waters. They're too cold and too dark for plessies.

Also, the fact that some plessie skulls have holes in the top means absolutely nothing. Alligator skulls have holes at the top, and so do snakes'. They do not have blow holes. There isn't enough room in their heads for one, and have you ever seen any animal with a blow hole in its head like that?

In regards to any of the "Nessie" photos? The ones you claim could have real couldn't have been, simply because of the vertical neck. True, it is very serpentine, but the backbone was really rigid, and the neck couldn't raise up at that angle. Not to sound crude, but how would you know how high an evolved pygmy plesiosaurs neck raises?

Also, bored of thinking up responses. Needless to say, plessies don't live in the Loch Ness these days. Or, you know, at all. I need to look into that underwater tunnel thing more, I'm pretty sure there is evidence to support it.
[/quote]

by pygmy, you mean small...

and if they were small, how come people claim to see monster sized 'nessies' in the water?

theres bleak evidence that the plessie may've evolved, but seeming as how the world changes... meh....

I am talking about pymgy plesiosaurs, as they wouldn't be the same size they were millions of years ago, they would have evolved into smalled creatures.

theres no way of telling if there are indeed pygmy plessies

While this was a good point a few decades ago, we now know that the Loch has more than enough fish to support up to 300 normal sized plesiosaurs.

which outdated encyclopedia did you get this from?

Well, we have never been able to examine them, so this is merely a theory.

well if havent been able to examine them, theres almost no way of telling they do exist

The bodies of their million year old ancestors, you mean.

theres still no way of telling what kind of plessie, if they exsist, we're dealing with

Not to sound crude, but how would you know how high an evolved pygmy plesiosaurs neck raises?

based on the way people depict them, of course, as its the only evidence of the plessie exsisting as of today

I need to look into that underwater tunnel thing more, I'm pretty sure there is evidence to support it.

...

Bio, are you just pulling information out of your ass? :/

No, not at all.  It will take me a while to find it on the internet though.

*Bio runs out the door and we hear a car start and drive away*

Hey, I'm far from done yet.  It's hard to get good material off the internet.

No, not at all.  It will take me a while to find it on the internet though.

true, even i tried searching, it took me a nifty minute to find my info.

I said good material, Ruhani.

His seems better and more logical than yours so far :/

mine or bio's?

I beleive she means yours, which I find utterly insulting.

Be insulted then.

I will.

you feel insulted only because I AM, right, and you're wrong, so says some people, just not myself.

I think it is possible. It is hard to believe that all dinosaurs were killed, espically those in water. All those theories of volcanoes, ice age, and blocking of the sun can't really accept marine life very much. It is usually dark down there. So i think Lock Ness is alive and kicking. Or maybe somebody just ran over the last Ness a couple of mintues ago.

For what it's worth I think you're both fuckwits.

i believe in it, but im not actually saying its real, theres not enough evidence to back this up, and so says the GOV'T who trys to cover up evidence of intelligent life 

Wait, are you just saying, that you'll only believe it if there is enough evidence to back it up? baaaaaah

I believe in it, I think there are more things in this world that we don't know about, than we do.

You know, I wish there was a rule in ID that all replies must be over a certain length... All you guys are doing is flaming and spamming in what's supposed to be a health debate...

This Topic is based on Opinions and alledged sightings... I was hoping for pictures, stories, or at least opinions like those at the start to keep coming... But for some reason some people are having their opinion's rammed back down their throats...Ruhani777 didn't need the responces he got for expressing in detail his opinions.

Taken in Loch Ness 17.14 on 30 July 2005

The creature was estimated to be
about three and a half meters long and was about fifty meters offshore.

This sight goes into detail on neighbouring lakes and legends, it's a very good read:- http://www.mysticalblaze.com/MonstersNessie.htm

One of the strongest things about it, is to say that there isn't some large, unknown creature it loch ness, then what accounts for thousands of sightings?  To say that it doesn't exist, every single sighting must be a misidentification, if even one is a true report of something, then you are wrong, and there is something there.

http://www.lochness.co.uk/images/lochnessmonster.jpg

It looks like a stick poking out of the water. Funny how with the advent of digital cameras and high quality photos, nobody gets a picture of it anymore.

One of the strongest things about it, is to say that there isn't some large, unknown creature it loch ness, then what accounts for thousands of sightings?  To say that it doesn't exist, every single sighting must be a misidentification, if even one is a true report of something, then you are wrong, and there is something there.

I could use the same argument for Christianity bio, something you don't believe in.

I think the liklihood a plesiosaur existing is much greater than that of god.

TAKEN:- fifty meters offshore...

I have a wicked digital camera, but even on that I doubt I would have gotten a better image...

That picture looks like a small stick taken very close up. It only has the illusion of being filmed from a distance.

There is supposed to be more than one in lake Champlain, in New York, and I guess lots of people have seen it, and there are old Indian legends about monsters in  lake. They had paintings of them I heard, the one thing I can believe, is if, they would say it, because, back then, they had no "white man" to impress, so why would they lie, of course, it could've just been an old fake legend.

So, I personally think yes, there are, not only in Loch Ness and Champlain, but also in other places. But I think, the one in New York is more probable, because Lake Champlain is a lot bigger than Loch Ness. 

Anyway, I think if they are there, and hunter's will try to find them, kill them and sell them, because they're probable worth tens of millions...A Zoo would kill for them. I think it's the same as big foot, if we do find them, there are going to be more people hunting than trying to save them, thusly most likely killing them off.   

it'd be easier to find creatures in lakes, rather than oceans, because of the size of both of them.

and if a team were to find a plessie in those lakes, they would, but since they have gone through excessive searching, they weren't able to find one, and they weren't just the people who gave up after a failed attempt to find their key, that they dropped in the water.

LOS- Holk is right. Why would that picture be such shit quality AND in black and white :/ And fifty meters off-shore? The entire surface area of the loch is only 56.4 km^2.

Also, it seems that you guys have yet to take into account that PLESSIES CANNOT BEND THEIR HEADS THAT WAY. Bio, the plesiosaurs evolved more so that they could reach their necks downwards rather than upwards. And even then, if their vertebrae could support such articulation, there's still this thing (you know what gravity is, right?) that would have tipped their bodies so that the majority of the neck was underwater anyway, making it completely impractical for them to have the thing in the first place, which would, inevitably, lead to them evolving so they had shorter necks. Through simple logic, your theory about them evolving so their necks went up that way is blown out of the water.

Think about it this way- you can bend your head forward pretty far, and you can curl up into a ball pretty easily. However, you cannot bend backwards as well as you can forwards. It's been the same way through our evolution for years. In fact, it's pretty much the same way for all vertebrates. If our backbones were able to bend all willy-nilly, what would be the point of having them? It isn't logical that the plesiosaur would have evolved so that its neck could bend up.

Because of their large lungs, the plessies would have been pretty bouyant. They probably did the thing alligators/crocodiles/whatever do today to be able to keep themselves submerged more easily. Still, they would have been float-y. And once again,PLESSIES WERE REPTILES. You know, cold-blooded. Why would a cold-blooded animal go down deeper into water where it is colder? (That's also another reason they wouldn't be in the Loch Ness- toocoldtoocoldtoocold.) So because of their buoyancy, and because they needed to stay close to the surface of the water where it was warmer, which direction do you think the plessies would have had to bend their necks so they could eat supper? Oh right! DOWNWARDS.

Also, Bio, you said plessies may have evolved to where they had some form of echolocation type of thing? Not even likely. Unlike whales or dolphins, plessies don't have the phonic lips used to MAKE clicks or squeals like the whales/dolphins do, and they never would- look at their teeth.

It's true though, that my theory about plessies fighting over space is purely speculation. I was just guessing- it's still certain that the Loch Ness is simply not large enough to support a thriving population of the things, pygmy or otherwise. There aren't THAT many fish in the loch, and the ones that are in there aren't huge, but are of sizes that wouldn't be so easy for a teeny plessie to attack.

Personally, I don't believe any type of plessie is alive today. It's true that there is a very, very, tremendously miniscule, minute chance that the things could have survived (one in a gazillionfillion), but there is really no way there could be a Nessie-plessie.

yes, djang is right-o, if you look at modern reptiles today, you don't see clumps of them packed together, so yes, if they did exist, we'd be seeing plessies all over the loch. Reptiles are cold-blooded animals that fight over territory, and needless to say about their mating patterns, the males would fight for dominance over the female, and if this were to happen, the likelyhood of seeing a plessie is high.

One of the strongest things about it, is to say that there isn't some large, unknown creature it loch ness, then what accounts for thousands of sightings?  To say that it doesn't exist, every single sighting must be a misidentification, if even one is a true report of something, then you are wrong, and there is something there.

god you're just like any gov't out there, trying to hide something big, yet turn it into a small problem. We STILL don't know if there IS indeed, any prehistoric reptile living in the loch. So yet again, you're wrong.

I have quoted my-self below...

Reason why may not see them is they avoid us, like all other sea creatures... It's like the Whale Shark you wouldn't know it was there unless you was in the water about 20 meters away from it, and it's massive...

Think of the size and depth of the ocean and the size of a Plesiosaur, then think of the size of a diver and how far they can see underwater...

Finding a Plesiosaur would be like finding a needle in a hay stack... doesn't mean it's not there... You can't prove there is a needle in a Hay stack... And the only thing we have to go on are peoples reports and crap photo's...

I would like to think the Plesiosaur or simular did make it through, and they are alive today... But common sense, scinece, and nature kind of goes against that theory...

I know it's very unlikely there are any alive today, but there could be good reasons why we are not seeing them...

Just like this New Shark Species:- http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2006/03/0313_060313_shark.html



No doubt been on the planet For million's of years... Who knows for sure what secrets the sea holds ?...

Yeah OK, may be the Loch in Scotland aint the best or ideal place, or best use debate

The difference, though, LOS, is that sharks are fish and plessies are reptiles. There is no way that a plessie would be able to survive 200 m underwater,for reasons I've stated again and again. The little shark is only 1 m long. Plessies were much larger. And the shark seems to be a regular catch that just wasn't identified as a distinctly different species. I've never seen or heard of plessie fillets being sold in mercados.

arguements that uphold the loch, seem to be getting very weaker n weaker

well, now ye be getting the RITE facts my friend, vote NO in the modern plesiosaurs topic

quote from oneray

I think it is possible. It is hard to believe that all animals were killed, especially those in water. All those theories of volcanoes, ice age, and blocking of the sun killed out most marine life, as we know today. So i think there is NO plesiosaur.

edited quote, wow so many error, didnt bother to correct em all, i mean, whats the point of editing a quote, if they're just to lazy to READ the RECENT POSTS. 

well, now ye be getting the RITE facts my friend, vote NO in the modern plesiosaurs topic

quote from oneray

I think it is possible. It is hard to believe that all animals were killed, especially those in water. All those theories of volcanoes, ice age, and blocking of the sun killed out most marine life, as we know today. So i think there is NO plesiosaur.

edited quote, wow so many error, didnt bother to correct em all, i mean, whats the point of editing a quote, if they're just to lazy to READ the RECENT POSTS. 

Ummm....Is it just me, or do you have no proof what so ever that what you're saying is true.
Eeeewell, I have no proof of what I am saying, and yes, that picture does look like a stick, but we can't just totally deny that they don't exist anymore and can't exist anymore.

even if they did exist, there still wouldn't be enough evidence to back it up, sorry, but there just isnt enough.

If they do exist, they would be an endangered species. What's to say they aren't an endangered species? How do we know, that there are more of them than there are of us, it's possible, and no one can change that fact, nor can one assume that they do exist, yet we can believe, and your strong will is more powerful than the media and science.

But how can you prove that they don't exist? (I'm not trying to flame, sorry if it comes out like that)

But certainly, there is more evidence out there proving that they exist, because no there are more believers than skeptics.
Because on a subject like this, people who are interested in it, research it, and find more stuff about, people don't care about cryptology, if they did, we would have found these things along time ago.

The difference, though, LOS, is that sharks are fish and plessies are reptiles. There is no way that a plessie would be able to survive 200 m underwater,for reasons I've stated again and again.

Humm... But then there's thing slike this:-

Rare Frilled Shark caught on tape in Japan
24 January 2007, 11:42:47 | Kanchan

The frilled shark, also known as a living fossil, a primitive species that has changed little since prehistoric times was spotted by a fisherman who thought that it was an eel like species.
He alerted the officials at the Awashima Marine Park in Numazu, who captured it and filmed it.

An official at the park is quoted to have said:

We believe moving pictures of a live specimen are extremely rare, They live between 600 and 1,000 meters under the water, which is deeper than humans can go.

The shark appeared to be in poor condition when park staff moved it to a seawater pool where they filmed it swimming and opening its jaws. Eventually it died. Unfortunately large numbers also die in the nets of bottom trawlers.

Or even the Whale shark that can go to those depth's... And if your argueement is they aint reptiles... Giant Sea Turtles can go to those depth's...

But you do raise an intresting point, and you could be right that an animal with such a long neck couldn't go to large depth's... But I am not so sure...

If they do exist, they would be an endangered species.

First of all, if they were, they'd be on the endangered species list by then. Second of all, we're not sure if they are. Third of all, if there were more of then, we'd be able to at least examine a few. Of all the years, we've been able to document endangered species, and provide care for them. They can be the simplest things, to the common fish, to the birds.

What's to say they aren't an endangered species?

we don't know yet.

How do we know, that there are more of them than there are of us, it's possible, and no one can change that fact, nor can one assume that they do exist, yet we can believe, and your strong will is more powerful than the media and science.

like i said, theres insufficient evidence to prove they exist. Sure, a believer can grab info from an outdated encyclopedia, or pull info from a plessie fan site,

But how can you prove that they don't exist?

as opposed to proving that they do? We don't know yet, as far as im concerned, no one's been able to prove their existence, but from many scientists and researchers, i assure you, they'll say there is no plessie. 

But certainly, there is more evidence out there proving that they exist, because no there are more believers than skeptics.

sure, information from outdated encyclopedias, and plessie fan-sites, really are called evidence. Gee, i never knew pulling information out of your ass was considered evidence. 

Because on a subject like this, people who are interested in it, research it, and find more stuff about, people don't care about cryptology, if they did, we would have found these things along time ago.

im sure there are grown up believers out there, if there were, we WOULD have found this thing a long time ago. Looks like the plessies aint cooperating, or is it im assuming, no one gives a damn. 

theres alot of people who are interested in crypts, but most of them, i doubt, will tell you that the plessie does exist, using factual evidence, rather than beliefs.

I don't think you understand what I meant....

But certainly, there is more evidence out there proving that they exist, because no there are more believers than skeptics.
Because on a subject like this, people who are interested in it, research it, and find more stuff about, people don't care about cryptology, if they did, we would have found these things along time ago.

I was saying, that we have more evidence because skeptics don't research it, and people who believe it research it to find more proof about it, thusly, making the upper side of the hand go to the researchers....     
People don't care about cryptology, only cryptologist's do. Or people who are interested in it.
If more people cared about cryptology, I'm sure we would have spent lots of money on cryptology research. The Government, that is.

But certainly, there is more evidence out there proving that they exist, because no there are more believers than skeptics.

sure, information from outdated encyclopedias, and plessie fan-sites, really are called evidence. Gee, i never knew pulling information out of your ass was considered evidence. 

 

The difference, though, LOS, is that sharks are fish and plessies are reptiles. There is no way that a plessie would be able to survive 200 m underwater,for reasons I've stated again and again.

Humm... But then there's thing slike this:-

Rare Frilled Shark caught on tape in Japan
24 January 2007, 11:42:47 | Kanchan

The frilled shark, also known as a living fossil, a primitive species that has changed little since prehistoric times was spotted by a fisherman who thought that it was an eel like species.
He alerted the officials at the Awashima Marine Park in Numazu, who captured it and filmed it.

An official at the park is quoted to have said:

We believe moving pictures of a live specimen are extremely rare, They live between 600 and 1,000 meters under the water, which is deeper than humans can go.

The shark appeared to be in poor condition when park staff moved it to a seawater pool where they filmed it swimming and opening its jaws. Eventually it died. Unfortunately large numbers also die in the nets of bottom trawlers.

Or even the Whale shark that can go to those depth's... And if your argueement is they aint reptiles... Giant Sea Turtles can go to those depth's...

But you do raise an intresting point, and you could be right that an animal with such a long neck couldn't go to large depth's... But I am not so sure...

There are tons of accounts like that.
Explanation?

I was saying, that we have more evidence because skeptics don't research it

right... evidence...
oh skeptics research it alright. like the ones BBC reported on, true skeptics, they went out of their way into finding this creature, and found no nessie.

and people who believe it research it to find more proof about it

why am i getting the feeling some believers sit on their asses, in front of the computer, eating twinkies and saying "i saw a plEzziE, omgZ0RZ, let me spread this crap on wikipedia and spamZ0RZ it on other websites, and then back it up with information I just shitZ0RZ in the toilet."

thusly, making the upper side of the hand go to the skeptical researchers....

     

People don't care about cryptology, only cryptologist's do. Or people who are interested in it.

we have more skepticism than what a cryptozoologist gets paid for.

If more people cared about cryptology, I'm sure we would have spent lots of money on cryptology research. The Government, that is.

well, theres chances of finding a plessie, if some people are reasonable enough to fund research. But then again, the chances are low, and now, we have inadequate, yet precise evidence that plessies dont exist.

and please don't post pictures of creatures underwater or underwater in general, i have aquaphobia, and forum mods, i'd like it if you delete every post with what i just said (im aquaphobic)

That fish you guys were showing...I think has no relation dinosuars or reptiles. It is actually part of a special class of chordates that don't have backbones or something like that. I sort of forget since I had bio last semmester.

I dont really care, but this topic is about plesiosaurs dude.

<Dr_Sword> Have you noticed that everything that has survived 25 million years (coelcanths, crocodiles) people go big woop, but when something dies 25 million years ago people are all like OMG OMG OMG OMG WANT

<Dr_Sword> Have you noticed that everything that has survived 25 million years (coelcanths, crocodiles) people go big woop, but when something dies 25 million years ago people are all like OMG OMG OMG OMG WANT

So really, this is a case of people going OMG WANT, and attempting to say "Hey look we got ourselves a dinosaur."

I CLAIM TOURIST PLOT, PEOPLE GO OMG WANT! They go to Scotland, dont see anything because it doesnt exist (anymore)
THAT WAY, they wont come to the big woop conclusion, and people will continue going to Scotland.

Other Plesiosaurs, you bet ya Im all for it. But Nesse is a psssh no. Dinosaurs cannot have a population in a lake without being seen. Thats like USA trying to hide from China

EDIT: DJANG BEAT MEH

<Dr_Sword> Have you noticed that everything that has survived 25 million years (coelcanths, crocodiles) people go big woop, but when something dies 25 million years ago people are all like OMG OMG OMG OMG WANT

So really, this is a case of people going OMG WANT, and attempting to say "Hey look we got ourselves a dinosaur."

I CLAIM TOURIST PLOT, PEOPLE GO OMG WANT! They go to Scotland, dont see anything because it doesnt exist (anymore)
THAT WAY, they wont come to the big woop conclusion, and people will continue going to Scotland.

Other Plesiosaurs, you bet ya Im all for it. But Nesse is a psssh no. Dinosaurs cannot have a population in a lake without being seen. Thats like USA trying to hide from China

EDIT: DJANG BEAT MEH

very funnily put together, indeed

<Dr_Sword> Have you noticed that everything that has survived 25 million years (coelcanths, crocodiles) people go big woop, but when something dies 25 million years ago people are all like OMG OMG OMG OMG WANT

So really, this is a case of people going OMG WANT, and attempting to say "Hey look we got ourselves a dinosaur."

I CLAIM TOURIST PLOT, PEOPLE GO OMG WANT! They go to Scotland, dont see anything because it doesnt exist (anymore)
THAT WAY, they wont come to the big woop conclusion, and people will continue going to Scotland.

Other Plesiosaurs, you bet ya Im all for it. But Nesse is a psssh no. Dinosaurs cannot have a population in a lake without being seen. Thats like USA trying to hide from China

EDIT: DJANG BEAT MEH

Colossus!!!!! <3333333333 



Ruhani, is the only reason you don't believe in nessies, is because you're aqua phobic?
And I don't sit on my "ass" all day and go on wikipedia, infact, I rarely go on wikipedia.

But, I believe in plesiosaurs, and I believe that, if other animals survived why couldn't they have too? Please answer?

nah, i'd still not believe in the nessie, even if i wasn't aquaphobic, i'd grow up and try to search for it.... but the chances are very close to "0" of finding it....

Ruhani777 - Think of the grants you could get to go searching for it... Be fun too... and a challenge, and who know's what you may find, you may not find a Plessy but you may find some thing else thaught to have been dead !!!

I admit the chances are so small of finding such a beast alive today it would be like finding an ice cube in hell.

But how cool would it be if one day we can reach the bottom of the sea and find a Giant Monster type creature... or explore the whole of the amazon and find some thing simular...

That would be awesomely sweet.

I think that the depths of the oceans might just have some scary things going on... Has anyone here read invisible inhabitants?  I think thats the title of the book.  It's pretty old, and a hard read, but it explains why alien life may not be so alien, and sightings of UFOs corresponding with water.

Alot of people think aliens are more like things from another dimensions, mainly cryptids though, like the mothman.

But, I'll check that book out, I hope they have it at borders!

Yeah, I am a little unsure of extraterrestrial life, but people are seeing something strange going on, whether it is some hidden race, another universe fading into ours, or whatever it may be.  (as a side note, UFOs really started getting publicity around the time that nuclear bombs were being produced, and at point pleasant, the place where mothman used to be, there was an old nuclear waste site called the TNT area, perhaps you have heard of it?

Yes I heard of it, I read part of the book, I had to stop reading it, because some of it freaked me out... 

But, you make a great point about the UFOs being publicly scene around nuclear times.


Ruhani777: Hydraphob[ic][ia] would be right, aqua is latin.

There was a show on ROD's kind of UFO's or insects know one is really too sure what they are, but they are not visable to the human eye and can only be captured on film.

As for Sea creatures and dinosaurs making it through to modern day... I guess we have proof it can happen, with Sharks, Corc's, Lizards etc... So if we did find a Plessy, I wouldn't be shocked.

RODs can only be captured on film with night vision during the day.

I don't know why there are so many skeptics, like you said.

As for Sea creatures and dinosaurs making it through to modern day... I guess we have proof it can happen, with Sharks, Corc's, Lizards etc... So if we did find a Plessy, I wouldn't be shocked.

The main reason I beleive lots of "paranormal" things, is for them not to be true, hundreds-ten thousands of sightings would all have to be wrong, and if even one was actually seeing what they thought they were, then all the skeptics are wrong.  It is a lot to disprove.

The main reason I beleive lots of "paranormal" things, is for them not to be true, hundreds-ten thousands of sightings would all have to be wrong, and if even one was actually seeing what they thought they were, then all the skeptics are wrong.  It is a lot to disprove.

That's extremely true.
And most of them are sort of linked, and big things, the like phoenix lights are way to big to be disproved


I got freaked out because I got obsessed and I couldn't stand to look at red lights, or mirrors.

Hahaha phoenix lights?  It can't be that big, I have never heard of it.  EVP is pretty cool.

EVP is pretty cool...I heard some a while back, but it sounded very blurry, but I didn't know what to expect...

Phoenix lights were pretty big...It like covered all of Phoenix. I wasn't there, but that's what I heard.

But it got tons of media.

EVP... Eltromagnetic Voice Phenomoinum (Or some thing like that but spelt correctly)

All you need is a Magnetic tape recorder... like a dicatphone (Baby monitors work also, but you can't record):-
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/SONY-M-440-DICTAPHONE-MICRO-TAPE-RECORDER_W0QQitemZ140115079121QQihZ004QQcategoryZ62041QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

EMF seems to be a good source of finding a good EVP recording:- http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/EMF-Detector-Meter-Most-Haunted-paranormal-ghost-EVP_W0QQitemZ110124091944QQihZ001QQcategoryZ1523QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Once this goes Red, press record on the recorder... I have picked up some right strange stuff, if you scare easy I would not play with this stuff...

Another great way is to use a Oujia board and leave the recorder on, some times if nothing happens on the board you get the answers on the tape... (YOU NEED TO PLAY IT LOUD)

This board looks like my own, except mine glows in the dark...LOL
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Ouija-Mystifying-Oracle-WILLIAM-FULD-Talking-board-set_W0QQitemZ140115879495QQihZ004QQcategoryZ102515QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Have fun Ghost hunting...

I thought Oujia boards can mess stuff up...Like are actually dangerous sometimes. 
The Exorcist was based on a true story of this kid was playing with a Oujia Board...

Yep... They are Ocult tools, and yes things have been reported to go wrong... I have had many a worring thing happen after using them, not sure if it's co-insidence or what... I mess with it cuz I can, I am an adult, I have stated if you scare easy don't play with it...

I would suggest know one plays with these things, unless you don't mind your house seeming to be haunted... Bouts of depression and Messed up dreams...LOL

My opinion, it's worth it... I like to know rather than guess... Rather regret some thing I have done, rather than some thing haven't.