Separation of Church and State.

I am completely for it, but sadly America is far from the clutches of religions influence in government affairs. The main cause of this would be two points: 

One,
Certain running offices using religion to get votes, ie: The Republicants.

Two,
The people voting them in. The reason why I'm putting this up as a problem is quite simple, how can you have a country separate from religion when the majority of the people are Christian?

You may say that it is showing that this is simply what the people want but I disagree. If that was true then why have it in the first place? You can't have your cake and eat it too. True freedom needs to come with certain rules, if you have religious parties running, and doing so in a manipulative way ( knowing that people will vote for them because of that one religious stance rather then because of the party's main principles ) then America needs a new system, one that doesn't allow religious parties or at least a law system that will stand up to the true idea of separation of religion and state.

I often hear people saying things along the lines of "Take out "under God" out of the pledge of allegiance? Why, it's not hurting any one!" or "What's wrong with the Ten Commandments in court houses? They're the original rules! This has NOTHING to do with religion!" I often have to think, that's quite fine and all saying this, but your only saying it because you yourself are Christian and these things are positive in your personal agenda. What if it was the Hindu rules put up in court houses? Would you be saying the same things? What if it was "Under Allah" in the pledge of allegiance? I would have to think your opinion would change...

Here are some quotes that have made me quite sick;

"The Republic party... reaffirms the United States of America is a Christian Nation..." -GOP platform document 2002.

"God told me to strike at the Al-Qaida and I struck them, and then he told me to strike at Saddam, which I did, and now I am determined to solve the problem in the middle east.." -George.W.Bush Jr.

"The 'wall of separation between church and state' is a metaphor based on bad history, a metaphor which has proved useless as a guide for judging. It should be frankly and explicitly abandoned." -Supreme Court Justice, William Relinquist.

This is a disgrace and is down falling the progress of humanity. I think the final nail will be creationism being taught in schools, as well as forced prayer. Why do you think America was created? One of the main reasons would be to escape England's religious tyranny and now it's just as bad, if not ( getting ) worse.

Edit: This topic is now debate about all countries and whether separation of state and church is a good/bad thing.

God, you're worse than bloody Jehovah Witness' who knock door to door Saucy...
You complain about religion in the same way people "advertise" religion - you constantly keep at it yet complain about the idea when religious people do it.

Wait. This is actually a decent topic.

Two,
The people voting them in. The reason why I'm putting this up as a problem is quite simple, how can you have a country separate from religion when the majority of the people are Christian?

Kill the Christians! (just kidding!)

America needs a new system, one that doesn't allow religious parties or at least a law system that will stand up to the true idea of separation of religion and state.

I think this quote alone may refute all my statements. And it does in a way... (left what I said in the post anyway - below).

I often hear people saying things along the lines of "Take out "under God" out of the pledge of allegiance? Why, it's not hurting any one!" or "What's wrong with the Ten Commandments in court houses? They're the original rules! This has NOTHING to do with religion!" I often have to think, that's quite fine and all saying this, but your only saying it because you yourself are Christian and these things are positive in your personal agenda. What if it was the Hindu rules put up in court houses? Would you be saying the same things? What if it was "Under Allah" in the pledge of allegiance? I would have to think your opinion would change...

Well... Ten Commandments are very basic and simple rules (ignoring the three religious ones), and there is nothing wrong with following them. We need rules to live in a safe environment. For example if we got rid of any rules on this forum it'd end up being a 'troll 'n' flame' forum. That said I personally think using them in a court house is quite fine - take into consideration the other method that is used:

I don't know if it has any special name/heading but here is how it works:
Every court case is recorded down, what happened, why there is a case and what is the conclusion (jail time, fine, whatever else there is) - this is used for future references to make fair jail times/fines and also to know how to deal with a case if it happens to arise again. I'm sure this is flawed somehow but it is better than: drown and you're innocent, swim and you're not (which results in burning to death of course).

For the "under God" part I am baffled. It ISN'T hurting anyone, and I'm not sure (never been to court) but if you are not religious you don't have to do it?

Interesting point you make about using another religion, not sure WHAT to say about that one.

"God told me to strike at the Al-Qaida and I struck them, and then he told me to strike at Saddam, which I did, and now I am determined to solve the problem in the middle east.." -George.W.Bush Jr.

I think I'm going to throw up.... he's like the current anti-Christ (overexagerating obviously)...

This is a disgrace and is down falling the progress of humanity. I think the final nail will be creationism being taught in schools, as well as forced prayer. Why do you think America was created? One of the main reasons would be to escape England's religious tyranny and now it's just as bad, if not ( getting ) worse.

Um. DS, calm down!

I don't see how it is down falling the progress of humanity (and apparently I don't see a lot of things :/). And if you read that referring to the world then in some schools is probably is forced, albeit not a good system for that country religious-wise. However you are only referring to America - and if it's as free as I've heard then this will never happen. I can't picture it happening in Australia, because that's what religious schools are for.

God, you're worse than bloody Jehovah Witness' who knock door to door Saucy...
You complain about religion in the same way people "advertise" religion - you constantly keep at it yet complain about the idea when religious people do it.

This is a topic intended to incite debate, how can that happen unless I put my view points down as well..? Your calling me a hypocrite without reading what I'm actually saying or understanding it...

Interesting point you make about using another religion, not sure WHAT to say about that one.

That's because your only supporting the ideas because it's YOUR faith. Any other way and you would be screaming your lungs out.

I think I'm going to throw up.... he's like the current anti-Christ (overexagerating obviously)...

The President of America was saying that an entity spoke to him and told him to kill people. Enough said.

don't see how it is down falling the progress of humanity (and apparently I don't see a lot of things :/).

Because religion and most science clash. If they start teaching religion as truth in school, then people will stop looking for the real answers, or at least stop researching certain areas. When I said the downfall of humanity, it was cause.

However you are only referring to America - and if it's as free as I've heard then this will never happen. I can't picture it happening in Australia, because that's what religious schools are for.

Then I guess America's not as free as you think as it's more then a possibility and a very real idea. As to Australia: They already teach it in our schools, don't you have "RE" ( religious education ) classes..?

Interesting point you make about using another religion, not sure WHAT to say about that one.

That's because your only supporting the ideas because it's YOUR faith. Any other way and you would be screaming your lungs out.

I just don't get it Saucy. I'm not Christian, do you think anyone who argues/debates against you is Christian.

I think I'm going to throw up.... he's like the current anti-Christ (overexagerating obviously)...

The President of America was saying that an entity spoke to him and told him to kill people. Enough said.

He's just trying to gain popularity though. I see your point, don't worry - no need to make another topic about it.

As to Australia: They already teach it in our schools, don't you have "RE" ( religious education ) classes..?

Not where I live, in some schools they do (i.e. Catholic). But for public schools it can be optional if the students really WANTS 'RE'.

Your calling me a hypocrite without reading what I'm actually saying or understanding it...

I hope this doesn't offend you... not that you have a choice to be or not to be: you either will or won't...

I am calling you a hypocrite because you are being one. But what you're saying is sort of decent.

I just don't get it Saucy. I'm not Christian, do you think anyone who argues/debates against you is Christian.

Well you certainly give off the notion that you are. So what religion are you..?

He's just trying to gain popularity though. I see your point, don't worry - no need to make another topic about it.

What..? Are cheap shots all you have? If what your saying is true, then he's more manipulative and wrong then a man who is just "plain insane".

Not where I live, in some schools they do (i.e. Catholic). But for public schools it can be optional if the students really WANTS 'RE'.

Do you live in Australia?? I thought you did.

How optional can it be for a child? I was more then pressured to take those classes. Pressured from the teachers and students. They call it optional but children absorb things a lot easier then adults as they don't have the proper skills to debate things for them selves. Add in all religions to school rather then just the Christian faith and I wont complain.

I hope this doesn't offend you... not that you have a choice to be or not to be: you either will or won't...

I am calling you a hypocrite because you are being one. But what you're saying is sort of decent.

Rather then just calling me a hypocrite, how about you show some facts to back it up...?

You know, you should change "Religion is just a prison, a wall to keep man from his true nature." in your sig to "Religion is being used by many people as an excuse." according to what Bush said.

I should add, you are doing here the same.

I disagree, as I see it, church and state are completely separated, (as are church and religion but thats a different subject)
Wether or not politicians try to use it as a means of gaining points with the people though, might not be.

Bush says he believes in "God", so do alot of politicians, but from how they act it becomes quite apparent that it's just bullshit.

"God told me to strike at the Al-Qaida and I struck them, and then he told me to strike at Saddam, which I did, and now I am determined to solve the problem in the middle east.." -George.W.Bush Jr.

Well, what can I say? Bush is a moron, big surprise.


As far as the governmental school system goes I think that they should feature all the major religions in short to give kids an option on what to believe, not favouring any of them, so they have summaries of:
Christianity
Buddhism
Hinduism
Islam
Evolution

And then let the kids decide for themselves which one they find more feasible.

I often hear people saying things along the lines of "Take out "under God" out of the pledge of allegiance? Why, it's not hurting any one!" or "What's wrong with the Ten Commandments in court houses? They're the original rules! This has NOTHING to do with religion!" I often have to think, that's quite fine and all saying this, but your only saying it because you yourself are Christian and these things are positive in your personal agenda. What if it was the Hindu rules put up in court houses? Would you be saying the same things? What if it was "Under Allah" in the pledge of allegiance? I would have to think your opinion would change...

I'd say take out the plege of allegiance.. That's what is truly useless and hurting people.

And the christian and muslim god are the same.

Because religion and most science clash. If they start teaching religion as truth in school, then people will stop looking for the real answers, or at least stop researching certain areas. When I said the downfall of humanity, it was cause.

Actually religion and science doesn't clash at all, most religions and the theory of evolution clash, however the two aren't the same since the theory of evolution is a religion in itself, not science.
Since there's no way to prove it (or any other religion for that matter) you have to believe it's true. (for the time being anyway, never know what will happen in the future)

It's really hard to prove anything these days, you can't really know what happened 500 years ago, and mostly everything before that are speculations and theories.


Getting back on topic, politicians lie so they can fill their wallets, and you should never believe anything that comes out of their mouths.
I personally distance myself from any kind of attempt at organized society since it's doomed to fail, you should try to take care of yourself and do what you want in life, some idiot in a suit that you never met in your life and who doesn't even know you exist couldn't possibly know whats best for you.

Just like I said:

"Religion is being used by many people as an excuse."

My country is like 90% Catholic, but State and Church are VERY separated here. I might be hard to believe, but I cannot remember a politician here mentioning anything about God or Jesus or whatever. =/ Nobody takes religion here into account.

Actually religion and science doesn't clash at all, most religions and the theory of evolution clash, however the two aren't the same since the theory of evolution is a religion in itself, not science.

What the fucking fuck? Have you ever seen bones before? Are you trying to tell me that millions of years worth of bones don't actually prove anything?

Yes, thats exactly what I'm saying.
If you can't prove what, where or when the bones are from then they're completely useless.
And the only way to avoid speculations regarding that is to ask the person who actually made the bone, good lucky with that.

One of mankinds greatest issues is her hubris, that and her constant "need" for dominion, it leaves little room for anything that actually matters, all these scientists in lab coats thinking they actually have a clue about anything whats going on in the world..
They're just dillusional, they don't know anything about the world, they don't even know why they're here, and then they think they can figure out the secrets of the universe and give a detailed description of everything that has ever happened.

I don't buy it.

But I understand why people buy it, they can't stand the thought that they have no idea whats going on, they need to feel like they're in control of at least their own lives, like what they think or do matters and can't simply accept that they are here and thats about all there is to it.
And then we have the people who take this to the extreme, and those are the people who want to control everyone else in a desperate attempt to prove their existance and their abilities to shape their own "destiny".
Those are the saddest people in my opinion.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Half_life

There are many ways to determine the age of bones. And, well, where? Wherever they were found.

And uh, secrets of the universe? You mean like how it started? No one will ever be able to figure that out, no matter what. Really, who cares about that shit anyways? This is about you claiming that something with millions of years of actual solid proof(you know, more than just a book) is "religious" and based only in beliefs.

Carbon-14 dating has already been proven to be inaccurate, people have only been around for so long and the Carbon-14 method is relatively new, theres no way to assert the downfall over such a long time, or if it's even constant.
They assume that it is and then slap a "FACT" label on it like that proves anything.


500 Years ago people knew the sun revolved around the earth, before that they knew that the earth was flat and people also knew that if you were sick it was because your blood was "bad" and had to be drained.
It's stupid to think you know something for sure, people don't know how earth and plants and people came here, and we never will know.

The only thing anyone can ever do is believe that it happened a certain way, and thus, it's all religion.

A film that gives alot of interesting info on this is Jesus Camp, which you can download here:

http://fileho.com/download/2edfce420685/f271fc391618-pmacsusej.abc.html

(rename .abc to .avi after it's done downloading).

Also, try "The Root Of All Evil?" ~ part 1 & part 2

Carbon-14 dating has already been proven to be inaccurate

Post up some plausible sources rather then just blatantly saying things.

They assume that it is and then slap a "FACT" label on it like that proves anything.

Lol. They don't say "it is 3.2 million years old", they say "it is 3.2 million years old according to carbon dating".

500 Years ago people knew the sun revolved around the earth, before that they knew that the earth was flat and people also knew that if you were sick it was because your blood was "bad" and had to be drained.

People also didn't research back then, they used superstition and religion to back their claims.

It's stupid to think you know something for sure, people don't know how earth and plants and people came here, and we never will know.

It's also stupid to give up without trying. We will never know..? Now that's hypocritical, claiming that "It's stupid to think you know something for sure" yet saying that we will never know something? That's certainly setting yourself in cement.

The only thing anyone can ever do is believe that it happened a certain way, and thus, it's all religion.

Do you even know the definition of a religion..? I do, let me dig up some of my families paper work...

"...the criteria of a religion are twofold: first belief in a supernatural being, thing or principle; and second, the acceptance of a canons of conduct in order to give effect to that belief..." That's the definition of a religion.

I'm just facing the facts, humans are dim-witted creatures, every animal knows how to survive, they find food and they build nests, but humans somehow fucked that up too, destroying the only habitable planet in the known universe, we lack the capacity to understand even the simplest things like how not to die.

Do you really think a creature that does something like that is capable of understanding how everything came to be?

People 500 years ago did research things, they didn't have the same technology as now but they did the best with what they had.
And the scientists today use their religion to back their claims aswell.


And I'm not claiming to know anything about how everything came to be, but when I have a choice between believing that some super smart old person on a cloud did it or that everything thats alive and all the different animals and plants and everything in the world was, over billions of years formed out of a wet rock, which itself came from nothing, which suddenly exploded...

I think I find the first choice more believable.

And personally I haven't seen nothing spontaneously blow up lately, have you?

Elegy, you're right up there with landofshadows in how much I admire you.

People 500 years ago thought that what they thought was right - these days we are the same, in the next 500 years people will be saying: "People 500 years ago thought that what they thought was right - these days we are the same, in the next 500 years people will be saying: "People 500 years ago thought that what they thought was right - these days we are the same, in the next 500 years people will be saying: "People 500 years ago thought that what they thought was right - these days we are the same, in the next 500 years people will be saying: "People 500 years ago thought that what they thought was right - these days we are the same, in the next 500 years people will be saying: "People 500 years ago thought that what they thought was right - these days we are the same, in the next 500 years people will be saying: "People 500 years ago thought that what they thought was right - these days we are the same, in the next 500 years people will be saying: "People 500 years ago thought that what they thought was right - these days we are the same, in the next 500 years people will be saying: "People 500 years ago thought that what they thought was right - these days we are the same.

Wow, just wow.

I'm just facing the facts, humans are dim-witted creatures

Compared to what? Other animals?

every animal knows how to survive, they find food and they build nests, but humans somehow fucked that up too,

We did?? Yeh I guess that roof over my head and that pasta I just ate was me fucking up survival. Rephrase your question.

we lack the capacity to understand even the simplest things like how not to die.

Wtf? Are you talking about gaining immortality? If your not, the last time I checked I know I was alive, and so was my neighbor. Animals kill each other too, just on a smaller scale because there's less of them.

Do you really think a creature that does something like that is capable of understanding how everything came to be?

Something like what? I really am quite down on your lack of faith in humanity, which is causing you to attack them without proper cause or real evidence. You sound foolish...

People 500 years ago did research things, they didn't have the same technology as now but they did the best with what they had.

Did you know that when it was introduced that the world was round people where killed for stating that? That doesn't sound like an enlightened people. It sounds like a people ruled by god and superstition, as I said.

And the scientists today use their religion to back their claims aswell.

Perhaps you can give me the name of their "religion"...?

that everything thats alive and all the different animals and plants and everything in the world was, over billions of years formed out of a wet rock, which itself came from nothing, which suddenly exploded...

Again I'm struck with words that really bring me back to your quote of "humans being stupid". Please oh please, study the matter before saying these things...

I think I find the first choice more believable.

And that says more then a lot to me .

And personally I haven't seen nothing spontaneously blow up lately, have you?

I'm not going to explain to you the idea behind the bigbang but NO ONE has claimed that the explosion came from nothing. Your lack of knowledge on this theory shows you shouldn't be speaking on it.



 

It sounds like a people ruled by god and superstition, as I said.

Gods promise eternal life, which is a positive thing. Although Christianity is quite sadistic with the: obey me or burn scenario - but who's to say they were Christian? Sounds like a people not ruled.

Compared to what? Other animals?

I agree on that statement but it's depressing for you to be right about that Saucy...

@Elegy: Are you kidding me? Are you actually saying here you believe the Bible blindly?!

Blizzard, I've never claimed anything like that, for some reason you've decided to assume that I do.
I'm not really sure how you came to that conclusion seeing how I never even used the word "Bible" in any of my posts, nor have I said anything about my personal convictions.


And Saucy, don't take my words out of context and then expect me to make an effort to defend myself against things you practically wrote yourself.
You've probably used the words "jews", "and", "niggers", "hate" and "I" sometime in your life, I could just like you put those together to form a derogatory comment and then accuse you of being racists, thats about as accurate as what you're doing.

I'm sorry, I must have misunderstood something. I was actually refering to this part:

And I'm not claiming to know anything about how everything came to be, but when I have a choice between believing that some super smart old person on a cloud did it or that everything thats alive and all the different animals and plants and everything in the world was, over billions of years formed out of a wet rock, which itself came from nothing, which suddenly exploded...

I think I find the first choice more believable.

And personally I haven't seen nothing spontaneously blow up lately, have you?

I meant: C'mon, you don't really believe God is some old guy sitting on a cloud?! This is one of the many wrong pictures everybody has of God.
Another delusion is thinking that God is male. God is NOT male NOR FEMALE. God is absolute, he can't be categorized within our reality. Most people, even most Christians fail to understand that.
And even though I'm Catholic, I find the second choice more believable. If God has created everything, who told us the way he did? Nobody. So nobody knows HOW God created everything and I would say the second choice would be a more logical explanation. You should know the basics of physics: "Every action will cause a reaction." and "Energy can't disappear or be created, it only changes from one form into another".
So if God made an action, the explosion could have been the reaction. And since God cannot be categorized within our reality, it could easily be that he actually DID create energy.

But I understand why people buy it, they can't stand the thought that they have no idea whats going on, they need to feel like they're in control of at least their own lives, like what they think or do matters and can't simply accept that they are here and thats about all there is to it.
And then we have the people who take this to the extreme, and those are the people who want to control everyone else in a desperate attempt to prove their existance and their abilities to shape their own "destiny".
Those are the saddest people in my opinion.

You're jumping over to philosophy. People tend to quench their thirst for knowledge, but you're saying here they haven't done anything. You are saying people have no idea what's going on. You're saying the entire human knowledge gathered for thousands of years is in vain. I am not putting words in your mouth, you said that, literally:

But I understand why people buy it, they can't stand the thought that they have no idea whats going on, they need to feel like they're in control of at least their own lives, like what they think or do matters

I'm just facing the facts, humans are dim-witted creatures, every animal knows how to survive, they find food and they build nests, but humans somehow fucked that up too, destroying the only habitable planet in the known universe, we lack the capacity to understand even the simplest things like how not to die.

It's the humans intelligence, curiosity and compassion for other humans which destroyed the planet. If we would act like animals, there wouldn't be 6 billion people on Earth now. We would kill each other instead. But then we would be nothing more than animals. But we ARE more than animals.

And I agree with Saucy's post above. You are telling us how people have a need to believe to be in ctontrol and how pathetic it is while you are doing actually the same by telling us how people have no idea what's right, but you do. I ma refering to the part where you describe humans as nothing more than disorientated animals.

Church and State are NOT separated.

The Seperation of Church and State is not even in the Constitution. :/

The Constitution DOES say, however, that the Church and the State should remain institutionally seperate. So the Church doesn't tell the State what to do, and the State doesn't tell the Church what to do.

Unfortunately, the State tells the Church what to do all the time. The reason all Christian schools are private (not-govermentally-funded), is because when the government funds a school, they give it rules to follow. One of which saying people from every religion must be accepted.

Saying, NO, this can not be a purely Christian school. That's telling the Church what to do. It's making rules pertaining to religion.

And Saucy, don't take my words out of context and then expect me to make an effort to defend myself against things you practically wrote yourself.
You've probably used the words "jews", "and", "niggers", "hate" and "I" sometime in your life, I could just like you put those together to form a derogatory comment and then accuse you of being racists, thats about as accurate as what you're doing.

Ahahahahaha.... Really? What I was doing was stapling? If you can't come back to my responses without acting like a child then please don't comment in the first place. I was quoting you, directly, NOT cutting and pasting certain words and mixing them.

Perhaps if your posts are that hard to concept you should learn a bit more about the English language.

Church and State are NOT separated.

I agree with that.

The Constitution DOES say, however, that the Church and the State should remain institutionally seperate.

How do you feel about the ten commandments being in the court houses? Isn't that breaching the constitution..?

Unfortunately, the State tells the Church what to do all the time.

While the church may have no direct manipulation on face value, your current leading is starting wars in the name of Yahweh ( or so he says ), if that's not in some way direction from church to state, or perhaps religion rulings, then I truly don't see what the starting definition would be.

The Constitution DOES say, however, that the Church and the State should remain institutionally seperate.

How do you feel about the ten commandments being in the court houses? Isn't that breaching the constitution..?

Unfortunately, the State tells the Church what to do all the time.

While the church may have no direct manipulation on face value, your current leading is starting wars in the name of Yahweh ( or so he says ), if that's not in some way direction from church to state, or perhaps religion rulings, then I truly don't see what the starting definition would be.

@1st - I would say that the Constitution merely says that the Church can't make rules governing State, and the State can't make rules governing the Church. This is not to say there can be NO religion in the State. Or no State in the Relgion. (I'm curious as to how THAT'D work out xD lol)

@2nd - It is not Christianity that is starting these wars. These "Holy Wars" for Yahweh are created by raticals and will continue till the end of time due to religious unrest between Christians, Jews, and Muslims. Unfortunately. I'm not saying Religion has no influence on State and vice-versa (as I've said), but neither are making official rules GOVERNING the other.

Saying, NO, this can not be a purely Christian school. That's telling the Church what to do. It's making rules pertaining to religion.

What? How is this ordering the church around? It's not, it's saying 'You have the freedom to educate in a Christian way if you please, but not with our money.' The state funds secular schools, religious people and institutions religious ones.

This is not to say there can be NO religion in the State.

The government is a secular institution, and isn't supposed to have religion in it. The Ten Commadments in the courthouse is rather annoying, but it's really a trivial matter when it comes down to it.

@2nd - It is not Christianity that is starting these wars. These "Holy Wars" for Yahweh are created by raticals and will continue till the end of time due to religious unrest between Christians, Jews, and Muslims. Unfortunately. I'm not saying Religion has no influence on State and vice-versa (as I've said), but neither are making official rules GOVERNING the other.

Unless shit really hits the fan and the world ends within the next millennia or so, I really don't think Judaism, Christianity, or Islam will last until the world's end.

While the church may have no direct manipulation on face value, your current leading is starting wars in the name of Yahweh ( or so he says ), if that's not in some way direction from church to state, or perhaps religion rulings, then I truly don't see what the starting definition would be.

Don't you understand he only says that to gain support amongst the Christian majority? Religion is, always has been, and always will be a useful tool for gaining support, money, etc. Iraq and Afghanistan aren't holy crusades by any means.

Saying, NO, this can not be a purely Christian school. That's telling the Church what to do. It's making rules pertaining to religion.

What? How is this ordering the church around? It's not, it's saying 'You have the freedom to educate in a Christian way if you please, but not with our money.' The state funds secular schools, religious people and institutions religious ones.

This is not to say there can be NO religion in the State.

The government is a secular institution, and isn't supposed to have religion in it. The Ten Commadments in the courthouse is rather annoying, but it's really a trivial matter when it comes down to it.

@1st - It's saying that if you accept our money you CAN NOT be a Christian school. I know this is a minor example. Another example.
You can't publically display a Nativity Scene, unless you have things pertaining to other holidays put up. But of course you're allowed to publically display any of the other things by themselves. Once again, I know this is a minor example, but it should get the point across.

@2nd - Where in the constituion does it say there can be NO religion in state?

@1st - It's saying that if you accept our money you CAN NOT be a Christian school. I know this is a minor example.

That's because it would be showing favor to a religion if they funded a Christian school. If they gave fundings to one religion, they would really have to fund them all if they didn't want to look like dictators. A very bad financial move.

Another example.
You can't publically display a Nativity Scene, unless you have things pertaining to other holidays put up. But of course you're allowed to publically display any of the other things by themselves. Once again, I know this is a minor example, but it should get the point across.

But it doesn't. I'm heavily offended by religious themes in public areas. How could it be it be, or why should the government persecute the rights of minorities? It doesn't do any good what so ever for a country to participate in religious matters of any kind. They should stick to the actual problems and try to run a successful land, NOT save my soul from damnation.

Where in the constituion does it say there can be NO religion in state?

Does it have to? Again, a country doesn't need religious leaders for it to be prosperous and healthy. Religion can be used as a tool to gain votes, but that's its only real use in the world of politics. We should be stepping froward, you can have a Christian nation without Christian leaders...

Oh and Gilgamesh was joking... Sort of... ...

Not only sort of. It's just his kind of humor, lol!

But it doesn't. I'm heavily offended by religious themes in public areas. How could it be it be, or why should the government persecute the rights of minorities? It doesn't do any good what so ever for a country to participate in religious matters of any kind.

Basic human rights.

They should stick to the actual problems and try to run a successful land, NOT save my soul from damnation.

What point does it have if you're living your life and go to hell after that? So like, 70, 80 and whatsoever years of life and you're doomed? "So, ok let's just go steal and kill, who cares. I'll get myself a wealth, give a shit about the rest of the world and live a good life and laugh at all the idiots who believe I'm going to hell. I'll just have a nice life, since it's gonna end quickly." I think religion is fine where it is now. If not good for anything, at least bringing in some order. I forgot who said it, but he's right if I like it or not:

"If God wouldn't exist, it would be a good idea to invent him."

Does it have to? Again, a country doesn't need religious leaders for it to be prosperous and healthy. Religion can be used as a tool to gain votes, but that's its only real use in the world of politics.

I totally agree with that.

We should be stepping froward, you can have a Christian nation without Christian leaders...

I don't know how good or bad this would be, but I get your point. I know what you mean in context with the quote before.

Seriously, you were taking my words out of context, copying uncomplete sentences and commenting on them with stupid replies, trying to belittle my arguments by asking me to explain things which are obvious to a 5 year old.

Example:

every animal knows how to survive, they find food and they build nests, but humans somehow fucked that up too,

We did?? Yeh I guess that roof over my head and that pasta I just ate was me fucking up survival. Rephrase your question.

we lack the capacity to understand even the simplest things like how not to die.

Wtf? Are you talking about gaining immortality? If your not, the last time I checked I know I was alive, and so was my neighbor. Animals kill each other too, just on a smaller scale because there's less of them.

Obviously my point is:
Animals + Nature = Symbiotic existance
Humans + Nature = Everything dies

I meant: C'mon, you don't really believe God is some old guy sitting on a cloud?!

Of course not, I was ridiculing the religion and trying to get the message across that even something as stupid as an old man on a cloud is more beliveable than evolution.

"Energy can't disappear or be created, it only changes from one form into another".

Yes, I'm familiar with the first law of thermo-dynamics and the concepts of the Conservation of Matter and Energy.

You're jumping over to philosophy. People tend to quench their thirst for knowledge, but you're saying here they haven't done anything. You are saying people have no idea what's going on. You're saying the entire human knowledge gathered for thousands of years is in vain. I am not putting words in your mouth, you said that, literally

Basically, yes.. I am saying that thousands of years of knowledge (of which we don't even know 1%, these days) is for no reason. In fact the more knowledge people gain concerning the material world, the harder it is for them to see the reality of it all.

(And sorry for copying and pasting, but I decided to separate the matters in your post)

It's the humans intelligence, curiosity and compassion for other humans which destroyed the planet. If we would act like animals, there wouldn't be 6 billion people on Earth now. We would kill each other instead*. But then we would be nothing more than animals.

You are telling us how people have a need to believe to be in ctontrol and how pathetic it is while you are doing actually the same by telling us how people have no idea what's right, but you do. I ma refering to the part where you describe humans as nothing more than disorientated animals.**

*But thats exactly what we are doing, is that so hard to see? There are wars in Iraq, Palestine, Somalia, Turkmenistan, basically everywhere in africa there are civil wars all the time, Lebanon, Pakistan, Sudan, Yemen..

**It's hard to see it any other way, they way people are acting.

Yes, I'm familiar with the first law of thermo-dynamics and the concepts of the Conservation of Matter and Energy.

Of course not, I was ridiculing the religion and trying to get the message across that even something as stupid as an old man on a cloud is more beliveable than evolution.

Smart words, but you've just contradicted yourself.

Basically, yes.. I am saying that thousands of years of knowledge (of which we don't even know 1%, these days) is for no reason.

Let me correct that: 0.000000001%. Yet it's still pretty much. Just try to gain all the knowledge people have collected over years. You will die before you succees with that.
If you didn't notice, that thing you are just looking in, seeing my post here is based on this knowledge.

In fact the more knowledge people gain concerning the material world, the harder it is for them to see the reality of it all.

What makes you believe that?

(And sorry for copying and pasting, but I decided to separate the matters in your post)

Meh, no problem. Sometimes when I'm in a hurry, I do it as well.

It's hard to see it any other way, they way people are acting.

You are generalizing humans. Only because Bush is an idiot and powerhungry and there were more of these individuals during the humans history who manipulated people doesn't mean every human is like that.

But thats exactly what we are doing, is that so hard to see? There are wars in Iraq, Palestine, Somalia, Turkmenistan, basically everywhere in africa there are civil wars all the time, Lebanon, Pakistan, Sudan, Yemen..

People are fighting for their right, because... *points to the text written already above*. As long as there are people who think that they are better than others and as long as there are powerhungry idiots and as long as there is supression/inhibition (sp?) of poeple and/or minorities, the world will never find peace. Again, you are generalizing. And alone the fact that there are 6 billion people on Earth prooves that we are killing LESS than animals.

Wow, just wow.

I'm just facing the facts, humans are dim-witted creatures

Compared to what? Other animals?

every animal knows how to survive, they find food and they build nests, but humans somehow fucked that up too,

We did?? Yeh I guess that roof over my head and that pasta I just ate was me fucking up survival. Rephrase your question.

we lack the capacity to understand even the simplest things like how not to die.

Wtf? Are you talking about gaining immortality? If your not, the last time I checked I know I was alive, and so was my neighbor. Animals kill each other too, just on a smaller scale because there's less of them.

Do you really think a creature that does something like that is capable of understanding how everything came to be?

Something like what? I really am quite down on your lack of faith in humanity, which is causing you to attack them without proper cause or real evidence. You sound foolish...

People 500 years ago did research things, they didn't have the same technology as now but they did the best with what they had.

Did you know that when it was introduced that the world was round people where killed for stating that? That doesn't sound like an enlightened people. It sounds like a people ruled by god and superstition, as I said.

And the scientists today use their religion to back their claims aswell.

Perhaps you can give me the name of their "religion"...?

that everything thats alive and all the different animals and plants and everything in the world was, over billions of years formed out of a wet rock, which itself came from nothing, which suddenly exploded...

Again I'm struck with words that really bring me back to your quote of "humans being stupid". Please oh please, study the matter before saying these things...

I think I find the first choice more believable.

And that says more then a lot to me .

And personally I haven't seen nothing spontaneously blow up lately, have you?

I'm not going to explain to you the idea behind the bigbang but NO ONE has claimed that the explosion came from nothing. Your lack of knowledge on this theory shows you shouldn't be speaking on it.

Please feel free to add on from your original quotes to make them into a completely different expressions .

Obviously my point is:
Animals + Nature = Symbiotic existance
Humans + Nature = Everything dies

Humans are  of nature you know. Everything..? You put up an equation to something that hasn't happened yet, your trying to predict the future, as I can only assume your referring to things that haven't taken place ( "Everything"  dies ). For some one who takes such pleasure in down falling science and human knowledge you certainly are putting yourself in a god-like position of knowing the fate of humanity.

Of course not, I was ridiculing the religion and trying to get the message across that even something as stupid as an old man on a cloud is more believable than evolution.

Perhaps you would like to explain why an old man in the clouds has more plausibility and proof then evolution. Last time I checked, evolution wasn't in dispute, how it occurred certainly was but not that it happened ( excluding those who's faith it clashes with )...

Basically, yes.. I am saying that thousands of years of knowledge (of which we don't even know 1%, these days) is for no reason. In fact the more knowledge people gain concerning the material world, the harder it is for them to see the reality of it all.

What percentage are we talking about here? In total? Because your 1% would be laughable, I doubt, in total, if we know close to 0.000(c)1%. Yet I still think we know a lot, and certainly don't think we should stop our quest for knowledge. Just because something is difficult doesn't mean it's not worth doing. ( Edit: Beat me to it Blizz... ).

Oh and what "reality" are you talking about? Again I'm lost with these "obvious to a 5 year old" rants of yours.

(And sorry for copying and pasting, but I decided to separate the matters in your post)

Lol. your taking what he said out of context! Oh no!

*But thats exactly what we are doing, is that so hard to see? There are wars in Iraq, Palestine, Somalia, Turkmenistan, basically everywhere in africa there are civil wars all the time, Lebanon, Pakistan, Sudan, Yemen..

As I've said, animals kill other animals all of the time. We just do it with guns. If animals could use sophisticated tools, they would. Just because they're their intelligence isn't on par with us, doesn't mean they're any less violent.

It's hard to see it any other way, they way people are acting.

And yet the majority disagrees with you. I guess we're all just disorientated animals... Let me guess: your not huh?
 

@1st - It's saying that if you accept our money you CAN NOT be a Christian school. I know this is a minor example.

So I guess you're discriminating when you give money to a Christian institution but not to an Islamic one? When you give money to Creationist organisations but not to evolutionist ones? The government is and indeed should be secular, abstaining from funding religious activities whilst respecting their right to carry on with what they are doing (assuming, of course, that these activities are reasonable and don't involve harming other people or breaking the law).

You can't publically display a Nativity Scene, unless you have things pertaining to other holidays put up. But of course you're allowed to publically display any of the other things by themselves. Once again, I know this is a minor example, but it should get the point across.

I guess this law isn't very enforced because I've seen many more nativity scenes than Stars of David and menorahs or anything. I can tell you've been paying attention Sunday morning, can you pray for me?

@2nd - Where in the constituion does it say there can be NO religion in state?

I guess the writers just thought it was common sense!

Obviously my point is:
Animals + Nature = Symbiotic existance
Humans + Nature = Everything dies

Wow. First off, animals (including humans) = nature as has been said. Secondly, humans aren't destroying the environment- they're merely changing it.  Do you also think that the Aboriginal cultures have great love and respect for Nature and are much smarter than the civilised European when it comes to conserving it?

Of course not, I was ridiculing the religion and trying to get the message across that even something as stupid as an old man on a cloud is more beliveable than evolution.

...What the fuck?

*But thats exactly what we are doing, is that so hard to see? There are wars in Iraq, Palestine, Somalia, Turkmenistan, basically everywhere in africa there are civil wars all the time, Lebanon, Pakistan, Sudan, Yemen..

Except we don't fight each other the way animals do- on a day to day basis, everywhere fighting to eat or not be eaten, for small pieces of territory, etc. Animals aren't all that pacifistic.

Obviously my point is:
Animals + Nature = Symbiotic existance
Humans + Nature = Everything dies

Humans are  of nature you know. Everything..? You put up an equation to something that hasn't happened yet, your trying to predict the future, as I can only assume your referring to things that haven't taken place ( "Everything"  dies ). For some one who takes such pleasure in down falling science and human knowledge you certainly are putting yourself in a god-like position of knowing the fate of humanity.

That humans are of nature is your personal faith, and the fate of humanity isn't a mystery if you open your eyes.
Just like the fact that water in it's solid form doesn't run upwards, humanity will kill itself very soon.
(sad that I had to add that but without it you probably would have made some remark about steam)
And I have no problem with science, I have a problem with evolution, and as I've stated before, evolution is a religion, or a creed if you'd rather me call it that, but it's certainly not a science.

Of course not, I was ridiculing the religion and trying to get the message across that even something as stupid as an old man on a cloud is more believable than evolution.

Perhaps you would like to explain why an old man in the clouds has more plausibility and proof then evolution. Last time I checked, evolution wasn't in dispute, how it occurred certainly was but not that it happened ( excluding those who's faith it clashes with )...

Evolution has always been in dispute, more than anything by scientists.

The more one studies paleontology, the more certain one becomes that evolution is based on faith alone; exactly the same sort of faith which is necessary to have when one encounters the great mysteries of religion... The only alternative is the doctrine of special creation, which may be true, but is irrational.

I reject evolution because I deem it obsolete; because the knowledge, hard won since 1830, of anatomy, histology, cytology, and embryology, cannot be made to accord with its basic idea. The foundationless, fantastic edifice of the evolution doctrine would long ago have met with its long- deserved fate were it not that the love of fairy tales is so deep-rooted in the hearts of man.

The chance that higher life forms might have emerged in this way is comparable with the chance that a tornado sweeping through a junk-yard might assemble a Boeing 747 from the materials therein... I am at a loss to understand biologists' widespread compulsion to deny what seems to me to be obvious.

Basically, yes.. I am saying that thousands of years of knowledge (of which we don't even know 1%, these days) is for no reason. In fact the more knowledge people gain concerning the material world, the harder it is for them to see the reality of it all.

What percentage are we talking about here? In total? Because your 1% would be laughable, I doubt, in total, if we know close to 0.000(c)1%. Yet I still think we know a lot, and certainly don't think we should stop our quest for knowledge. Just because something is difficult doesn't mean it's not worth doing. ( Edit: Beat me to it Blizz... ).

Oh and what "reality" are you talking about? Again I'm lost with these "obvious to a 5 year old" rants of yours.

I'm talking about the only reality there is.

(And sorry for copying and pasting, but I decided to separate the matters in your post)

Lol. your taking what he said out of context! Oh no!

Hilarious, why did you feel that it was relevant to the subject to include this?

*But thats exactly what we are doing, is that so hard to see? There are wars in Iraq, Palestine, Somalia, Turkmenistan, basically everywhere in africa there are civil wars all the time, Lebanon, Pakistan, Sudan, Yemen..

As I've said, animals kill other animals all of the time. We just do it with guns. If animals could use sophisticated tools, they would. Just because they're their intelligence isn't on par with us, doesn't mean they're any less violent.

Again, that is your personal belief.
My personal belief is that there is nothing sophisticated about a gun, it's an idiots tool, and anyone who uses one is a disgrace to humanity.

It's hard to see it any other way, they way people are acting.

And yet the majority disagrees with you. I guess we're all just disorientated animals... Let me guess: your not huh?

I don't claim to be better than anyone, neither am I claiming to be stupid.
Doesn't take a genious to figure out that a race of creatures who care more about watching people pretend to be other people (TV.. Duh) than the 25 000 people starving to death every day, are completely oblivious to what the hell is going on in the world.

@1st - It's saying that if you accept our money you CAN NOT be a Christian school. I know this is a minor example.

So I guess you're discriminating when you give money to a Christian institution but not to an Islamic one? When you give money to Creationist organisations but not to evolutionist ones? The government is and indeed should be secular, abstaining from funding religious activities whilst respecting their right to carry on with what they are doing (assuming, of course, that these activities are reasonable and don't involve harming other people or breaking the law).

Everybody has the same rights as Blizzard said. I wouldn't mind the government giving money to an Islamic school. Just because I don't believe the religion doesn't mean I'm going to persecute it.
Also, as I've said before -- The Constitution ONLY says that the State can not make laws governing the Church (refering to ANY religion -- though at the time it meant Christianity/Catholocism -- History lesson Yay) and the Church can not make laws governing the State.

It also says that the State can not establish an official relgion. So I can see where you would get that the State should be secular. But that's not what it says.
A literal interpretation of that would be that the State can not force people to follow a certain religion. The Constitution also says that the State can not favor any religion over another.

So if they funded a Christian school, they would have to fund schools based on other beliefs as well.
As for the idea that this is a bad finnancial move being why they don't do so, think about this -

The State governments give BILLIONS to schools every year. Creating more and more schools. They've got the money and they OBVIOUSLY don't mind spending it. If they really  cared about the money, they wouldn't be WASTING all of it. The schools DO NOT NEED IT. Besides, they spend more money on the equipment than the education. :/ THAT is a bad financial move.

If the government supports one affiliated school, it'd have to support any other schools that are affiliated with other religions as well. Since the money obviously isn't an issue, what is? It could be that they don't want to be seen as supporting a religion. Okay, understandable. But do you really think other religions would let this offer go? HECK NO (lol), they'd snatch it up. If a relgion doesn't take the government up on the offer, it's not that the government doesn't support it, it's that the relgion... just... doesn't care.

It's a free country.

Also, take note of this.

http://www.adl.org/issue_religious_freedom/create/creationism5.asp

It used to be ILLEGAL to teach evolution in schools. I know this may seem like it has nothing to do with this topic, but it does. The government used to allow religion to be in schools, now it's banning it.

You can't say the Pledge of Allegience in some schools anymore because somebody was offended by the words "Under God".
FREE SPEECH. If no one could say something that would offend ANYBODY, then we'd all be mutes. This is also an example of the State governing relgion.

That humans are of nature is your personal faith, and the fate of humanity isn't a mystery if you open your eyes.

Do you even know what 'nature' means?

Just like the fact that water in it's solid form doesn't run upwards, humanity will kill itself very soon.

HUMANITY IS FALLING DOWN A SLIPPERY SLOPE A SLIPPERY SLOPE!
OH NOES!
WE'RE ALL GOING TO DIE AND IT'S BECAUSE COCKROACHES ARE SO MUCH SMARTER!

(sad that I had to add that but without it you probably would have made some remark about steam)

You're not exactly class genius, are you?

And I have no problem with science, I have a problem with evolution, and as I've stated before, evolution is a religion, or a creed if you'd rather me call it that, but it's certainly not a science.

The whole concept of evolution is based on what we've observed from the fossil record, contemporary microevolution, geology, etc. etc.

Evolution has always been in dispute, more than anything by scientists.

Sure, some scientists dispute it. Some scientists dispute pretty much everything. Some scientists are idiots. To name three: L.T. More, Albert Fleischmann, and Sir Fred Hoyle. These quotes have absolutely no basis given, at least not here.

Furthermore, comparing evolution to a tornado piecing together a 747 is so fucking stupid I don't know where to begin. I think I'll start with the idea of 'natural selection', which is far from randomly throwing shit together.

Again, that is your personal belief.

No, not really. Animals don't have the capability of forming weapons, but if they did that'd be a great advantage for them. If a chimpanzee could use a gun or even something like a spear or arrow to kill or scare off prey/predators/competitors, what makes you think it wouldn't?

My personal belief is that there is nothing sophisticated about a gun, it's an idiots tool, and anyone who uses one is a disgrace to humanity.

You obviously don't know what 'sophisticated' means. DS doesn't mean 'sophisticated' as in 'upperclass' or whatever you're thinking, she means it as in complex. A gun is considerably complex. And no, people who use guns aren't disgraces to humanity. People who say shit like that, however, are.

I don't claim to be better than anyone, neither am I claiming to be stupid.
Doesn't take a genious to figure out that a race of creatures who care more about watching people pretend to be other people (TV.. Duh) than the 25 000 people starving to death every day, are completely oblivious to what the hell is going on in the world.

Speak for yourself. Were I one to be offended by dumb shit, I would be for that sweeping generalisation of mankind based on a handful of people.

Alrighty, on to Tsunokiette's post.

Everybody has the same rights as Blizzard said. I wouldn't mind the government giving money to an Islamic school. Just because I don't believe the religion doesn't mean I'm going to persecute it.

Not funding religious activities isn't persecution. Again, it's not the government's place to support (or oppose) religious activity!

Also, as I've said before -- The Constitution ONLY says that the State can not make laws governing the Church (refering to ANY religion -- though at the time it meant Christianity/Catholocism -- History lesson Yay) and the Church can not make laws governing the State.

I've already addressed this. Do you think that maybe if you repeat it again I'll buy it?'

It also says that the State can not establish an official relgion. So I can see where you would get that the State should be secular. But that's not what it says.

No religion = secular.
At least that's what I was under the impression of!

The State governments give BILLIONS to schools every year. Creating more and more schools. They've got the money and they OBVIOUSLY don't mind spending it. If they really  cared about the money, they wouldn't be WASTING all of it. The schools DO NOT NEED IT. Besides, they spend more money on the equipment than the education. :/ THAT is a bad financial move.

This isn't the place for discussion on the financial situation of the US education system. Whether or not the US or any other government has money to fund religious schools is irrelevant to whether it should.

It used to be ILLEGAL to teach evolution in schools. I know this may seem like it has nothing to do with this topic, but it does. The government used to allow religion to be in schools, now it's banning it.

Creationism is religion, and nothing more. We could get into a pointless Creationism vs. Evolution debate here, but suffice it to say that it again is not the job of the government to promote religious beliefs. It's a good step that we've eliminated Creationism from our schools.

You can't say the Pledge of Allegience in some schools anymore because somebody was offended by the words "Under God".
FREE SPEECH. If no one could say something that would offend ANYBODY, then we'd all be mutes. This is also an example of the State governing relgion.

No, it's an example of some schools avoiding potential conflict. If theists want to say 'under God', so be it. But in our schools, if indeed we should even have such a silly and meaningless pledge, it shouldn't be there.

Well gonorrhoea has pretty much jumped in and belittled your claims, btw I was laughing the entire way, good work. But I will try to comment on them suffice to say that my ideas are similar to gonorrhoea's. Even still I will do my best not to repeat said things.

That humans are of nature is your personal faith, and the fate of humanity isn't a mystery if you open your eyes.*

Just like the fact that water in it's solid form doesn't run upwards, humanity will kill itself very soon.**

(sad that I had to add that but without it you probably would have made some remark about steam)***

And I have no problem with science, I have a problem with evolution, and as I've stated before, evolution is a religion, or a creed if you'd rather me call it that, but it's certainly not a science.****

Evolution has always been in dispute, more than anything by scientists.****

*~My eyes are open, how do you think I'm typing..?
**~It will? Again this god-like psychic knowledge you have is astounding. For someone who doesn't know proper English, you certainly have no problem predicting the fate of mankind.
***~WTF is steam? I mean I just learned that "water in it's solid form doesn't run upwards", can it go in other directions??
****~gonorrhoea said it pretty much all here, but perhaps your getting this "evolution religion" thing mixed up with Darwinism..? There is current conflict ( I'm not sure who brought it on ) about the ideas of Darwin's theory of Evolution, not evolution itself.

I'm talking about the only reality there is.

K, kool.

So is is like a secret club or something? Do I need to know the secret handshake before we can talk about it?

The only conclusion I can come to by responses like this is;
1) You don't know,
2) You think it would sound stupid by giving us your beliefs,
3) Your lying.
 

Hilarious, why did you feel that it was relevant to the subject to include this?

If it doesn't matter then don't use it as an excuse when trying to avoid questions you can't answer. How many fucking times did you mention it when I did the same thing...? Not to say successfully avoid my questions...

Again, that is your personal belief.*

My personal belief is that there is nothing sophisticated about a gun, it's an idiots tool, and anyone who uses one is a disgrace to humanity.**

*~Yes it is, that's why we are here in the "debate" section.
**~As was pointed out by the teacher, class, some words have more then one meaning.

I don't claim to be better than anyone, neither am I claiming to be stupid.*

Doesn't take a genious**

to figure out that a race of creatures who care more about watching people pretend to be other people (TV.. Duh) than the 25 000 people starving to death every day, are completely oblivious to what the hell is going on in the world.***

*~No, but your posts are doing a fine job at that.
**~Obviously not .
***~Yes perhaps these corporate yuppies should just quit their job and move to Africa to help out all of the little children ( they're cute no? Just like kittens! ). But what's this? Not only has American industry started to crumble because of the lack of workers but all of those people who went to Africa have caught AIDS. Hmmm that plan didn't work....

There are many situations were it would be illogical for us to put everything down because some people are dying in a failing country. Last time I checked, that was natural selection in play. If your little emo heart can't handle all of this then please oh please start helping them and quit annoying us.

On that subject, do you even help them?! I'm not talking about sending $5 every week to some world vision cult, I mean do you actually help them? Do you wash their feet? Do YOU get them fresh drinking water? Do you even help the homeless in your own country? Oh, and by the chance that you do that crap WHY AREN'T YOU DOING IT NOW? What's that? Taking a break? Like "all those blind people watching TV"? How the fuck is sitting on your ass reading this any better then them getting home and taking a break by watching something on a different screen. It's easier to judge other people then it is to act huh?


( Oh and even though the quotes are broken I P-R-O-M-I-S-E this isn't just me manipulating your words again. If your confused as to why all of your quotes sound so bad, well it's not because I'm editing, it's because your an idiot. Oh and that's not flaming, that's just my personal opinion ).

@gonorrhoea - What conflict? There IS NO CASE. The schools aren't avoiding conflict, they're CREATING it.

The only time god should be mentioned in schools is in the study of religion which should not be done untill students are actually at an age where they can understand what they're looking at(high school level) in my opinion. Schools are places of learning, not religious bullshit.

The only time god should be mentioned in schools is in the study of religion which should not be done untill students are actually at an age where they can understand what they're looking at(high school level) in my opinion. Schools are places of learning, not religious bullshit.

Well said. Do you have any type of religion in American schools?? We actually have Religious Education in Australia... It's sickening...

Christians go under the notion that "the non-believers don't have to attend" or that "they don't have to pay attention" but that is completely asinine. Children are practically being brainwashed into believing in some cult and pay serious attention to "IT'S THIS OR HELL FIRE". It's manipulation and it is damn evil in my point of view. People should want to join a faith because they feel like it, NOT because of the threat of violence.

As you said perfectly: "Schools are places of learning, not religious bullshit.".

What's that? Religion IS about learning? Then why is your faith the correct one? Because you say it is...? Please...

Christians go under the notion that "the non-believers don't have to attend" or that "they don't have to pay attention" but that is completely asinine. Children are practically being brainwashed into believing in some cult and pay serious attention to "IT'S THIS OR HELL FIRE". It's manipulation and it is damn evil in my point of view. People should want to join a faith because they feel like it, NOT because of the threat of violence.

Whatever.

@gonorrhoea - What conflict? There IS NO CASE. The schools aren't avoiding conflict, they're CREATING it.

I don't know, maybe it's the whole bitchfit about 'under God' in the pledge? It's just easier and less of a pain in the ass to forget the whole thing.

Well said. Do you have any type of religion in American schools?? We actually have Religious Education in Australia... It's sickening...

Not aside from Religious Education, really.

Christians go under the notion that "the non-believers don't have to attend" or that "they don't have to pay attention" but that is completely asinine. Children are practically being brainwashed into believing in some cult and pay serious attention to "IT'S THIS OR HELL FIRE". It's manipulation and it is damn evil in my point of view. People should want to join a faith because they feel like it, NOT because of the threat of violence.

True story.

Christians go under the notion that "the non-believers don't have to attend" or that "they don't have to pay attention" but that is completely asinine. Children are practically being brainwashed into believing in some cult and pay serious attention to "IT'S THIS OR HELL FIRE". It's manipulation and it is damn evil in my point of view. People should want to join a faith because they feel like it, NOT because of the threat of violence.

True story.

If Gij is allowed to say it then I am too: you're a moron.

It's fucking sad that you and the cat can't stick to the subject and even attempt to defend your little bullshit religion without jumping to personal attacks, maybe thats because evolution is such a stupid idea it's hard to back it up with any claims pertaining to reality.

I haven't said anything about you two in any of my posts but in all of yours theres nothing but slander and constant repeating of your "natural selection" doctrines like a fucking mantra, you might not know this but saying something long enough and trying to belittle everything else doesn't make it true, it just makes you an idiot.

Every sane person in the world can see that evolution doesn't work out, there are no proof of it ever occurring, the concept of it is flawed, but you're too wrapped up in your little "You can't tell me what to do! You're not my father"
Self pitying innuendo to see that it's impossible for everything to have formed out of a wet fucking rock over billions of years.
Especially since it would mandate for a BEGINNING and an END of everything, there is no unlimited in your creed, and the laws of conservation state that matter and energy cannot be created nor can it be destroyed, only transformed into something else.

If everything evolved into more perfect forms, since everything started at the same time, everything should have evolved the exact same way, into one perfect creature that is better than anyone else, instead of thousands of different creatures.

I have never seen anyone who believe in evolution actually back it up with facts or reasonable theorems, it's always slander and insults.
And that is because there are no facts or reasonable theorems to support that outdated fictional crap.

"My eyes are open, how do you think I can read?"
"WTF is steam?"
-It doesn't take a genious-
"Obviously not "

And the cat is even more stupid.
Anyone who claims that humanity is moving forward must be completely blind, to think humans are smarter now than they were 4000 years ago is wrong, simple as that.
It's called Entropy, look it up.
3000 years ago people knew that everything was in essence nothing more than energy, and these scientists who are oh-so-smart just came out with a startling discovery, when you split an atom and then split the little quarks, everything is in essence nothing more than energy!
Oh my, where have I heard that before?

Everything this wonderful modern science comes up with is either destructive or useless.
And mostly both.
Weapons
Nuclear power
Cars
Airplanes
anything that runs on gasoline

Humans are the stupidest creatures on earth.

And to the cat, I know what nature means, nature is the physical world and all the animals, plants and landscapes in it.

Humans aren't a part of nature, we're not animals, never have been and never will be.

The only time god should be mentioned in schools is in the study of religion which should not be done untill students are actually at an age where they can understand what they're looking at(high school level) in my opinion. Schools are places of learning, not religious bullshit.

The only time Evolution should be mentioned in schools is when they talk about things that are completely false.

And not only that but it is illegal to teach evolution as a fact in public schools, it has to be presented as a theory.

The only reason the government supports evolution is because it's one of two religions that doesn't condemn murder, and thus they have more sacrifices for their armies.
More people who are willing to kill other people so the polticians can fill their wallets.

The only logical conclusion being that the earth came about by intelligent design.

And if the Earth was designed, there must be a designer.

The designer can not be natural, for it in itself would need a begining.

The only answer is that the earth had a Supernatural Designer. (aka God)

Every sane person in the world can see that evolution doesn't work out, there are no proof of it ever occurring, the concept of it is flawed, but you're too wrapped up in your little "You can't tell me what to do! You're not my father"
Self pitying innuendo to see that it's impossible for everything to have formed out of a wet fucking rock over billions of years.

Especially since it would mandate for a BEGINNING and an END of everything, there is no unlimited in your creed, and the laws of conservation state that matter and energy cannot be created nor can it be destroyed, only transformed into something else.

What aree you trying to say here?

If everything evolved into more perfect forms, since everything started at the same time, everything should have evolved the exact same way, into one perfect creature that is better than anyone else, instead of thousands of different creatures.

Have you given any thought to this at all? I mean, it's not as if the Earth was a featureless sphere with an even coating of nutritious slime. Environments vary widely, and available niches close up fast.

Also, you, like many people, seem to think that evolution has a "goal" beyond that of survival. There is no perfect creature, nor will there ever be.

I have never seen anyone who believe in evolution actually back it up with facts or reasonable theorems, it's always slander and insults.
And that is because there are no facts or reasonable theorems to support that outdated fictional crap.

Probably because you're an arrogant twit who dismisses evolution without even knowing what it is.

Anyone who claims that humanity is moving forward must be completely blind, to think humans are smarter now than they were 4000 years ago is wrong, simple as that.
It's called Entropy, look it up.

If you think that we were better off 4000 years ago then you are insane. Move to the Amazon and live with an indigenous tribe for a year and tell me how great it is.

3000 years ago people knew that everything was in essence nothing more than energy,

What people believed that? There were many peoples 3000 years ago.

and these scientists who are oh-so-smart just came out with a startling discovery, when you split an atom and then split the little quarks, everything is in essence nothing more than energy!
Oh my, where have I heard that before?

What is your point? You think that divine energy is radioactive?

Everything this wonderful modern science comes up with is either destructive or useless.
Nuclear power

Nuclear power is a sasfe technology, and most people fear it because of Chernobyl (which was the fault of shitty Soviet engineering) and Three Mile Island, which was a success story.

Humans aren't a part of nature, we're not animals, never have been and never will be.

As long as we continue to inhabit bodies that are the product of evolution and reproduce in what is known as the natural way, then we will be part of nature.

The only time Evolution should be mentioned in schools is when they talk about things that are completely false.
And not only that but it is illegal to teach evolution as a fact in public schools, it has to be presented as a theory.

All scientific "facts" are theories. Do you doubt gravity?

It's fucking sad that you and the cat can't stick to the subject and even attempt to defend your little bullshit religion without jumping to personal attacks, maybe thats because evolution is such a stupid idea it's hard to back it up with any claims pertaining to reality.

Why don't you shut the fuck up, eh? 'Y CANT U 2 PLAY NICE! U GUYS R IDIUTS N I HAET U[...]'.

I haven't said anything about you two in any of my posts but in all of yours theres nothing but slander and constant repeating of your "natural selection" doctrines like a fucking mantra, you might not know this but saying something long enough and trying to belittle everything else doesn't make it true, it just makes you an idiot.

Why don't you give me some proof against evolution then? Saying it's stupid over and over again won't make me believe it, either.

Every sane person in the world can see that evolution doesn't work out, there are no proof of it ever occurring, the concept of it is flawed

Right, nothing like all of the research into geology, paleaontology, biology in general...

Self pitying innuendo to see that it's impossible for everything to have formed out of a wet fucking rock over billions of years.

This is why I've insulted you. You obviously have no understanding of evolution.

I have never seen anyone who believe in evolution actually back it up with facts or reasonable theorems, it's always slander and insults.
And that is because there are no facts or reasonable theorems to support that outdated fictional crap.

That must be since the only defence for evolution you've ever heard was mismashed or out of context quotes Creationists use for their propaganda or some shit, because I've heard plenty. On the other hand, I've never heard a reasonable defence for Creationism- it mostly boils down to, 'BIBLE SAYS SO.' 'EVOLUTION CAUSED THE HOLOCAUST.'

"My eyes are open, how do you think I can read?"

I've already said DS is an idiot.

"WTF is steam?"

...

-It doesn't take a genious-
"Obviously not "

Well you're not acting very intelligent. Or intelligent at all, for that matter.

And the cat is even more stupid.

Aw, the way you and ataraxy insult me hurts so much. I'd hate for such mindnumbingly idiotic fucktards to think of me as stupid, it's rather insulting!

Anyone who claims that humanity is moving forward must be completely blind, to think humans are smarter now than they were 4000 years ago is wrong, simple as that.

We haven't advanced at all, it's true. Might as well go back to Sumeria!

(btw, sarcasm ^)

Everything this wonderful modern science comes up with is either destructive or useless.
And mostly both.
Weapons
Nuclear power
Cars
Airplanes
anything that runs on gasoline

No, you're an idiot. For example, cars and aeroplanes. Sure, they have some bad effects but they've revolutionised the world's transportation and have more pros than cons. Furthermore, they're getting cleaner.
Hey, here's some more shit that's destructive and useless:
Medicine.
Environmental science.
The Internet.
Printing.
etc.

Humans are the stupidest creatures on earth.

You are, but not the rest of us. I've already addressed this earlier in the thread, but you just ignored that.

And to the cat, I know what nature means, nature is the physical world and all the animals, plants and landscapes in it.

Humans aren't a part of nature, we're not animals, never have been and never will be.

Humans are primates. Primates are animals. Animals are nature.
So I guess you just didn't know what humans were, my apologies.

The only time Evolution should be mentioned in schools is when they talk about things that are completely false.

ahahahahahahaha

And not only that but it is illegal to teach evolution as a fact in public schools, it has to be presented as a theory.

It's not a theory, it's a scientific law. Due to semantic (sorry to make you bust out the dictionary) shift, 'fact' ~= 'scientific law' except in its strictist definition.

The only reason the government supports evolution is because it's one of two religions that doesn't condemn murder, and thus they have more sacrifices for their armies.
More people who are willing to kill other people so the polticians can fill their wallets.

I guess that would explain why the military is mostly made up of Southern Christians.
Also, war != murder.

The only logical conclusion being that the earth came about by intelligent design.

And if the Earth was designed, there must be a designer.

The designer can not be natural, for it in itself would need a begining.

The only answer is that the earth had a Supernatural Designer. (aka God)

You remind me of what I used to be like. Don't worry, you'll be cured soon enough

p.s. Pi = 3

Aw, the way you and ataraxy insult me hurts so much.

I didn't insult you, it's not my fault if you are too ignorant to accept that what I called you a moron over made no sense.

Cat, you're kinda making my point for me.

No, you're an idiot. For example, cars and aeroplanes. Sure, they have some bad effects but they've revolutionised the world's transportation and have more pros than cons. Furthermore, they're getting cleaner.

"They're getting cleaner"? This doesn't justify it, they have to have been completely clean and unaffecting nature from the very start for them to not be a step back in progress.
Anything that affects nature in a destructive way, no matter how little, is really not worth using.

And you can't shift the blame like that, you can't come up with a theory and then say I have to disprove it for it to be invalid.

Then I might aswell say aliens, shaped like beer bottles, came and built the Sydney opera house.
Now YOU prove that its false or else it's true.

Most palentologists agree that there is no proof of evolution, if species mutated into better ones
(fyi there has never been an observation of any positive mutations in a species, they have always been negative, things don't get better when they mutate, they get worse)
there would be piles of bones scattered everywhere around the globe... Seems like thats not the case since they haven't found a single one that hasn't turned out to be a fraud.

If you heard so much valid defense for evolution why is it you're not using that instead of just trying to change the subject into some childish "I know you are but what am I?" insult game?

Cat, the military is not made up of southern christians...
Most people who say they are christan, aren't.
A real christian would renounce all affiliations with any governmental institution and would NEVER sign up for service in a military power.


Only evolution and satanism allows murder.
Any one who says otherwise is a liar, you can't be christian, muslim, buddhist, hinduist etc. and kill another human, it just doesn't work.
It would be like calling yourself a vegitarian and eating meat.

And cat, evolutionism is the disease, not the other religions.

Yeh looks like I missed out again, the only thing left untouched would be the utter irony of you using personal attacks to describe personal attacks. You have provided no real evidence for your claims, you state things on science that has been taken so far out of context that I couldn't recognize them in many cases, and I'm afraid you just look like the rest of the religious slandering fools who take what little knowledge they have, and try to turn it into a weapon "OMG TEH SAID WE COME FROM MONKEYS!!!".

As to my quotes;

"My eyes are open, how do you think I can read?"
"WTF is steam?"
-It doesn't take a genious-
"Obviously not Wink"

How am I meant to come back to stupidity other then using the same..? I'm afraid you had already proven that you couldn't handle yourself ( avoiding questions, lack of restraint and of course no real knowledge or plausible sources ) so I lost respect in what you had to say. If you want to be treated with more respect then perhaps you should try answering a question or two rather then recycling the same crap over and over.

As to Saladin: Good points, are you sure you don't go by a different name..? Either way it's nice to see some more people with a bit of intelligence join us at the forums.
_________________________________________________________________________________________ ___________________________

The only logical conclusion being that the earth came about by intelligent design.

And if the Earth was designed, there must be a designer.

The designer can not be natural, for it in itself would need a begining.

The only answer is that the earth had a Supernatural Designer. (aka God)

Yeh it's easy to say that "God" is the answer because you have the oh-so delicious "He was always there" argument. I'm sure if we wanted to, we could use the same defense, but unlike religion, science tends to back things up with evidence before wildly stating things. The reason why I find your god to be so flawed and fictional is because to me, he ( it has a gender.. ) is really just a reflection of man himself.

You state that Yahweh is omnipotent:

Do we all understand the meaning of that word..? It means the top, all knowing, absolutely nothing else to know.

Do you understand that for omnipotence to be held you would have to have completed every action? You would have to know and do everything? Feel, everything? I say this because it would be impossible to become, or be, all knowing with third party information. Because there is no good or evil all choices are equal within them selves, ( in other words all paths are as good as each other because none of them are wrong ) a person who knows all of the different "sides" first hand, would actually know that there actually are no "sides" to speak of.

So without some type of personal prejudice, which would be impossible for something truly omnipotent, an all knowing being would be completely neutral and yet your god seems to claim to be pure love and "good". Morality is only something to exist for humans, not "divine" beings. You god is either lying to you or it doesn't exist.   

Also an all knowing, all powerful god would have no reason to create. I dismiss Christianity because it is flawed, heavily.

_________________________________________________________________________________________ ___________________________

"They're getting cleaner"? This doesn't justify it, they have to have been completely clean and unaffecting nature from the very start for them to not be a step back in progress.
Anything that affects nature in a destructive way, no matter how little, is really not worth using.

And how do you suppose we get them fully clean..? By not doing anything about it? It's called trial and error.

And you can't shift the blame like that, you can't come up with a theory and then say I have to disprove it for it to be invalid.

No, but you should really, really show some evidence to back your claims unless you want to look like a fool. You're blindly stating things with no back up, how can that be respected?

Then I might aswell say aliens, shaped like beer bottles, came and built the Sydney opera house.
Now YOU prove that its false or else it's true.

Wow, bravo... If you real want me to show you some evidence I would be happy to do it. Your speaking as if your points of discussion are common knowledge, which they're not.

Most palentologists agree that there is no proof of evolution, if species mutated into better ones
(fyi there has never been an observation of any positive mutations in a species, they have always been negative, things don't get better when they mutate, they get worse)

Lol, again. Uhhh random mutations..?? Who's claiming that?

If you heard so much valid defense for evolution why is it you're not using that instead of just trying to change the subject into some childish "I know you are but what am I?" insult game?

Because we're not the ones claiming wild stories. "If it where sciences job to disprove every crack-pot theory, then we would never get any real work done...", your theory is the one out of mainstream, it's not my job to fight it, it's your job to give it plausibility though...

Cat, the military is not made up of southern christians...
Most people who say they are christan, aren't.
A real christian would renounce all affiliations with any governmental institution and would NEVER sign up for service in a military power.

I guess there's no such thing as a real Christian then, I mean if you where only a Christian because you followed the rules to exact, then I guess that would make us Atheist the dominate religion out there...

Only evolution and satanism allows murder.
Any one who says otherwise is a liar, you can't be christian, muslim, buddhist, hinduist etc. and kill another human, it just doesn't work.
It would be like calling yourself a vegitarian and eating meat.

Ahahahahaha!! Do you know that in the bible it says that it's the job of every Christian to "KILL" homosexuals..? Give me a few seconds, I'll give you the page number...

And cat, evolutionism is the disease, not the other religions.

K, kool. Uhhh I don't know what he thinks about it, but you calling him "Cat" is starting to piss me off.

This list of Creationist claims puts down pretty much every argument she has made. I'd like to point her attention to one section in particular:

Evolution is not a religion.

Deliciously_Saucy - I don't like commenting on Religion threads all that much... As I tend to upset the gullable people that love reading chapter after chapter of crap that the bible consists of...

I think your topic is loosing a sense of direction.

And it's slowly becoming a debate on IF God Exsists. Or how we came about to exsist...

Instead of Seperation of Church and state... So Back on Topic

I am fed up with world leaders using religion to back their campaigns or reasons... To me Bush saying as he did in your first post, about God telling him to strike Saddam is like him saying Santa told him to do it... To me it's like he has a Mental disfunction.  People in the medical world call it being schizophrenic.

Politcis, Law and running of state in my opinion should NEVER quote a single God or relate to one ethnic or religious standing especially when we live in a multicultual world.

And Bush making that remark is almost saying he is rightious and acting out Gods decessions rather than his own, and in that notion makes him no better than thoughs Detonating them selves in the name of their Gods.

I back Deliciously_Saucy 110% on this Debate... Sorry all you God loving zombies but wake up, nobody is questioning the exsistance of God, we are saying what place does religion have in politics, and if it does hold ground why does it ?

Edit: Thank you LOS, yes this topic is turning into some what of a religious debate rather then it's original purpose. I will try to stay on topic after this post, thanks for the wake up call.

I'll be updating this with all the kill commands in the bible. Christians are blood thirsty... Oh I hope you have a bible, don't be wasting my time now...

Exodus 22:18-20;

18 "Do not allow a sorceress to live.

19 "Anyone who has sexual relations with an animal must be put to death.

20 "Whoever sacrifices to any god other than the LORD must be destroyed.

Leviticus 20:13;

13 " 'If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads.

Leviticus 20:27;

27 " 'A man or woman who is a medium or spiritist among you must be put to death. You are to stone them; their blood will be on their own heads.' "

Exodus 21:15;

15 "Anyone who attacks [a] his father or his mother must be put to death.

proverbs 20:20

20 If a man curses his father or mother,
       his lamp will be snuffed out in pitch darkness. ( DS: That means death )

leviticus 20:10

10 " 'If a man commits adultery with another man's wife—with the wife of his neighbor—both the adulterer and the adulteress must be put to death.

leviticus 21:9

9 " 'If a priest's daughter defiles herself by becoming a prostitute, she disgraces her father; she must be burned in the fire.

I have many, many more. I could go all day...

Please try to keep your posts consisting of part the topics title
I'm posting this up to show how bad religion can get. Matters like the above should not be connected in anyway to government rulings. Oh and Christians: THIS IS WHAT YOUR FOLLOWING Your book, not mine.

My favorite is Mark 9:1: "And he said to them, "Assuredly, I say to you that there are some standing here who will not taste death till they see the kingdom of God present with power."

"They're getting cleaner"? This doesn't justify it, they have to have been completely clean and unaffecting nature from the very start for them to not be a step back in progress.
Anything that affects nature in a destructive way, no matter how little, is really not worth using.

We're not destroying nature, we're changing it. We've said this before, in other threads. Also, we have to make mistakes before we progress, we're not perfect.

And you can't shift the blame like that, you can't come up with a theory and then say I have to disprove it for it to be invalid.

I'm not the one saying 'X IS BAD AND EVIL AND IS FALSE AND THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NO EVIDENCE IN ITS SUPPORT.'

Then I might aswell say aliens, shaped like beer bottles, came and built the Sydney opera house.
Now YOU prove that its false or else it's true.

I could go ahead and provide a link to a site about its construction!

Most palentologists agree that there is no proof of evolution, if species mutated into better ones

Most? Also, they don't mutate into better species, they mutate into different ones suited for different needs and niches.

there would be piles of bones scattered everywhere around the globe... Seems like thats not the case since they haven't found a single one that hasn't turned out to be a fraud.

...There are piles of bones scattered everywhere around the globe though.

If you heard so much valid defense for evolution why is it you're not using that instead of just trying to change the subject into some childish "I know you are but what am I?" insult game?

Ahaha, that would be you. Want some proof? Check out Saladin's links. I'll see if I can dig up some other stuff for you when I'm done with class.

A real christian would renounce all affiliations with any governmental institution and would NEVER sign up for service in a military power.

And who the fuck are you to judge someone as a 'real' Christian or not? There's nothing wrong, as far as I can see from a biblical perspective with war, assuming the war itself is 'just'.

Only evolution and satanism allows murder.

There are no amounts of ellipses that can express my utter shock at your stupidity.

Any one who says otherwise is a liar, you can't be christian, muslim, buddhist, hinduist etc. and kill another human, it just doesn't work.

Sure you can, there have been plenty of cases of it really! Also, Mohammed didn't have a problem with the idea of jihad or anything.

And cat, evolutionism is the disease, not the other religions.

Right, evolutionism is the one that deceives and manipulates people.

I didn't insult you, it's not my fault if you are too ignorant to accept that what I called you a moron over made no sense.

It's what happened to me- my parents are Fundamentalists and brainwashed me into that shit as well. BUT I AM CURED BY THE SAVING GRACE OF THE GODDESS ATHE! Oh glory HALLELUJAH!

You state that Yahweh is omnipotent:

Do we all understand the meaning of that word..? It means the top, all knowing, absolutely nothing else to know.

s/omnipotent/omniscient/
Omnipotence is having all power, hence 'potent'; omniscient is all knowledge, hence 'scient' (cf. 'science').

K, kool. Uhhh I don't know what he thinks about it, but you calling him "Cat" is starting to piss me off.

I don't really give a shit. The sad thing is, I forgot that was my avatar and got confused as to who 'the Cat' was for a while.

THIS IS WHAT YOUR FOLLOWING

I'll let you know right now that you quoted parts of the bible that didn't even relate to anything that Christians actually follow, you seriously don't believe they live by a book - word for word. And if you do you've obviously never met a Christian and are mindlessly attacking.

It's what happened to me- my parents are Fundamentalists and brainwashed me into that shit as well. BUT I AM CURED BY THE SAVING GRACE OF THE GODDESS ATHE! Oh glory HALLELUJAH!

Um...?

I'll let you know right now that you quoted parts of the bible that didn't even relate to anything that Christians actually follow, you seriously don't believe they live by a book - word for word. And if you do you've obviously never met a Christian and are mindlessly attacking.

So what you're saying is that Christians don't follow the Bible?

I'll let you know right now that you quoted parts of the bible that didn't even relate to anything that Christians actually follow, you seriously don't believe they live by a book - word for word. And if you do you've obviously never met a Christian and are mindlessly attacking.

So what you're saying is that Christians don't follow the Bible?

So you're saying that a Christian family kills the kids when they swear at them?

EDIT:

This is just getting stupid - this stuff doesn't even relate to anything. This proves you made this topic just to advertise how (apparently) bad religion is, nothing more. Farewell, and actually try to discuss the topic you first mentioned. *leaves topic*

So you're saying that a Christian family kills the kids when they swear at them?

Well, they should (unless this is OT stuff). There are parts of the NT that a lot of Christians nowadays would disagree with, such as the part where Jesus says that people can't divorce and remarry because it would be adultery.

Most? Also, they don't mutate into better species, they mutate into different ones suited for different needs and niches.

LOL... Yeah... Like Chickens... they have been around as far back as Man, and right back then they couldn't fly and now... they errr... still can't... LOL

Evolution is amost as much Cock and Bull as God and the Bible.

But all the above is VERY OFF TOPIC... Back to TOPIC

For leaders of countries or heads of states that have a multitude of religions co-insiding within a closenet system should never favour one religious standing over another... it will de-sect the public within their own sectors.

Leaders should act for the better of the public residing in the populus rather than acting on a notion of a devine force or things they claim to hear in their own heads or opinions.

Acting to their own needs is not why they are appointed the power of the people... and the people in most countries now come from ALL religious backgrounds.

For leaders of countries or heads of states that have a multitude of religions co-insiding within a closenet system should never favour one religious standing over another... it will de-sect the public within their own sectors.

Leaders should act for the better of the public residing in the populus rather than acting on a notion of a devine force or things they claim to hear in their own heads or opinions.

Acting to their own needs is not why they are appointed the power of the people... and the people in most countries now come from ALL religious backgrounds.

I agree, but how can this happen without a new system? If there are things that can be manipulated for personal gain then they will be. What methods can be installed to stop politicians from using religion as a method for vote-gaining?

Any spam posts after this one and I'm putting the topic into time out.

Most? Also, they don't mutate into better species, they mutate into different ones suited for different needs and niches.

LOL... Yeah... Like Chickens... they have been around as far back as Man, and right back then they couldn't fly and now... they errr... still can't... LOL

Evolution is amost as much Cock and Bull as God and the Bible.

What is your point? Flight is not a defining feature of birds, and there used to be flightless birds that were at the top of their food chain. Chickens are a good example of controlled evolution, where we act as the selective force instead of nature. Instead of selecting for survival traits, however, we select for taste, docility, and size.

Sorry Saladin, I agree with you but;

Any spam posts after this one and I'm putting the topic into time out.

I'm locking the topic. I'm taking a spa and I will unlock when I'm out...


If you want to talk about this there is a topic for life, it was made for the discussion of just this matter and has no real defining lines of debate. Take your claim there and I will be happy to back you in length.

*posts in a locked topic* I'll have add my shit on that.

Every sane person in the world can see that evolution doesn't work out,

So we are all insane, you're the only sane one, eh? It's YOU who is flaming US again if you didn't notice. What do you expect as a response from us then?!

Self pitying innuendo to see that it's impossible for everything to have formed out of a wet fucking rock over billions of years.

Leave a bottle of water for a few days and look at all the bacteria that were created. Why do you think this isn't possible?

If everything evolved into more perfect forms, since everything started at the same time, everything should have evolved the exact same way, into one perfect creature that is better than anyone else, instead of thousands of different creatures.

Just a side note: evolution isn't finished, evolution will never finish, it's a constant process.

I have never seen anyone who believe in evolution actually back it up with facts or reasonable theorems, it's always slander and insults.
And that is because there are no facts or reasonable theorems to support that outdated fictional crap.

Ok, now I am not slandering and insulting you. And now please tell me how do you explain our existance if you're so all-knowing?

Anyone who claims that humanity is moving forward must be completely blind, to think humans are smarter now than they were 4000 years ago is wrong, simple as that.
It's called Entropy, look it up.

To be more exact the human race didn't become smarter for the last 10000 years, they only have gainded more knowledge. Are you sure you know what you are talking about?

3000 years ago people knew that everything was in essence nothing more than energy,

And where did you get that info from?

and these scientists who are oh-so-smart just came out with a startling discovery, when you split an atom and then split the little quarks, everything is in essence nothing more than energy!
Oh my, where have I heard that before?

If you didn't notice, they are right.

Everything this wonderful modern science comes up with is either destructive or useless.
And mostly both.
Weapons
Nuclear power
Cars
Airplanes
anything that runs on gasoline

Not neccesarry useless, but I agree up to some point. It's a neccessary evil, if we like it or not. There are more and more people on the Earth and somehow we have to manage that. To prove that it's not useless, I ask you, were the people better off 1000 years ago without that? I don't think so.

Humans are the stupidest creatures on earth.

You are a human as well.

And to the cat, I know what nature means, nature is the physical world and all the animals, plants and landscapes in it.

Humans aren't a part of nature, we're not animals, never have been and never will be.

That's just lol. Suddenly you are changing you mind, eh? Just a few pages ago you were saying how humans are nothing better than animals and now you're saying they are none.

The only time god should be mentioned in schools is in the study of religion which should not be done untill students are actually at an age where they can understand what they're looking at(high school level) in my opinion. Schools are places of learning, not religious bullshit.

I agree on that. I don't think school and religion should go hand in hand.

The only time Evolution should be mentioned in schools is when they talk about things that are completely false.

You know, I was taught history in my school about the history of the U.S.A. Do you REALLY believe they taught me such glorious things as the kids in the U.S.A. are taught? School is partially used to manipulate the youth IF YOU DIDN'T KNOW. One more thing such as evolution (like you are claiming) doesn't make a difference, don't you think so?

And not only that but it is illegal to teach evolution as a fact in public schools, it has to be presented as a theory.

It isn't thaught as a fact, but as a theory. Now I am wondering, did you even go to school...?

The only reason the government supports evolution is because it's one of two religions that doesn't condemn murder, ...

What are you talking about?! Who said evolution does allow murder? Where is that written? Show me.

Hey, here's some more shit that's destructive and useless:
Medicine.
Environmental science.
The Internet.
Printing.
etc.

<3

And to the cat, I know what nature means, nature is the physical world and all the animals, plants and landscapes in it.

Humans aren't a part of nature, we're not animals, never have been and never will be.

Humans are primates. Primates are animals. Animals are nature.
So I guess you just didn't know what humans were, my apologies.

I wish I could rep++ you more than once in 4 hours.

The only time Evolution should be mentioned in schools is when they talk about things that are completely false.

ahahahahahahaha

Yet another <3

And not only that but it is illegal to teach evolution as a fact in public schools, it has to be presented as a theory.

It's not a theory, it's a scientific law. Due to semantic (sorry to make you bust out the dictionary) shift, 'fact' ~= 'scientific law' except in its strictist definition.

Just <3

The only reason the government supports evolution is because it's one of two religions that doesn't condemn murder, and thus they have more sacrifices for their armies.
More people who are willing to kill other people so the polticians can fill their wallets.

I guess that would explain why the military is mostly made up of Southern Christians.
Also, war != murder.

4th <3

"They're getting cleaner"? This doesn't justify it, they have to have been completely clean and unaffecting nature from the very start for them to not be a step back in progress.
Anything that affects nature in a destructive way, no matter how little, is really not worth using.

Did you know that any animal poo is destructing the Earth in a no matter how little way? Other than that I have already stated how humans depend on what they have created.

And you can't shift the blame like that, you can't come up with a theory and then say I have to disprove it for it to be invalid.

Why can't he? Since now you've only given false or partially false facts. I agree with gonorrhoea (or how you call him: the cat) in the part where he says that you obviously have now idea about evolution. Not knowing about something and telling how it's bad is the greatest ignorance if you didn't know. Oh yes, before you even have time to think up about what to reply to this prt of my post: There is one bigger ignorance; that's when you deny that you're ignorant. And even before you are calling me ignorant, read what I have written above. I am very aware of the polution the human race caused. But that was because they didn't KNOW it would polute the Earth. Here comes the part in that proves that humans DID learn something, since some of them are trying to save the planet.

Then I might aswell say aliens, shaped like beer bottles, came and built the Sydney opera house.
Now YOU prove that its false or else it's true.

Most palentologists agree that there is no proof of evolution, if species mutated into better ones
(fyi there has never been an observation of any positive mutations in a species, they have always been negative, things don't get better when they mutate, they get worse)
there would be piles of bones scattered everywhere around the globe... Seems like thats not the case since they haven't found a single one that hasn't turned out to be a fraud.

Have you any idea how your brain works and how the brain of a chimp works? I would say, there WAS a positive mutation there. Next time PLEASE think before you write such bullshit.

If you heard so much valid defense for evolution why is it you're not using that instead of just trying to change the subject into some childish "I know you are but what am I?" insult game?

Excuse me, but it's you who is doing this all the time. You haven't brought upon at least one valid argument about... whatever you actually are trying to say.

Cat, the military is not made up of southern christians...
Most people who say they are christan, aren't.
A real christian would renounce all affiliations with any governmental institution and would NEVER sign up for service in a military power.

You've never heard of the 12 crusades?! They strongest believers went of to kill people.

Only evolution and satanism allows murder.
Any one who says otherwise is a liar, you can't be christian, muslim, buddhist, hinduist etc. and kill another human, it just doesn't work.
It would be like calling yourself a vegitarian and eating meat.

Where did you get that Satanism allows MURDER?! Do you even know what the word murder means?

it has a gender..

As I stated above, no it (God) has no gender. He is above this earthly categoration.

Also an all knowing, all powerful god would have no reason to create.

Well, it says God created us on his image (sp?). If we love and want to create life (children), why shouldn't God think the same way? But again, this is just a speculation.

I dismiss Christianity because it is flawed, heavily.

Christianty is a reflection of and led by humans, who are flawed as well. Lol, we're trying our best here. (-_-')
That's the part where Jesus comes in. He kinds said "So like, yeah... Try to be like me and you might be saved if it's enough." Again, we're just humans. It's all far beyond our comprehension...

"They're getting cleaner"? This doesn't justify it, they have to have been completely clean and unaffecting nature from the very start for them to not be a step back in progress.
Anything that affects nature in a destructive way, no matter how little, is really not worth using.

And how do you suppose we get them fully clean..? By not doing anything about it? It's called trial and error.

*more quoting of Elegy*

Couldn't have said it better. If you have a point, prove it or else it's void in a debate.

Ahahahahaha!! Do you know that in the bible it says that it's the job of every Christian to "KILL" homosexuals..? Give me a few seconds, I'll give you the page number...

Yes, she is right. I am Catholic, I know about this. So, stop talking bullshit, Elegy. It says "Burn them alive" or something like that. So not only "kill them", but "torture them" as well. =/ I'm not proud of this part of the Bible as I think it's idiotic.

And cat, evolutionism is the disease, not the other religions.

K, kool. Uhhh I don't know what he thinks about it, but you calling him "Cat" is starting to piss me off.

Agreed. He has a pseudonym here. Calling him "cat" shows that you have no respect to others. Why do you expect us to respect you then?

Evolution is not a religion.

Exactly.

Deliciously_Saucy - I don't like commenting on Religion threads all that much... As I tend to upset the gullable people that love reading chapter after chapter of crap that the bible consists of...

Yeah... and believing it word for word... They really are gullable. =/

I am fed up with world leaders using religion to back their campaigns or reasons... To me Bush saying as he did in your first post, about God telling him to strike Saddam is like him saying Santa told him to do it... To me it's like he has a Mental disfunction.  People in the medical world call it being schizophrenic.

Politcis, Law and running of state in my opinion should NEVER quote a single God or relate to one ethnic or religious standing especially when we live in a multicultual world.

And Bush making that remark is almost saying he is rightious and acting out Gods decessions rather than his own, and in that notion makes him no better than thoughs Detonating them selves in the name of their Gods.

I totally agree on this. But that doesn't mean he CAN'T be a Christian and say he's one. And no, I'm not saying Bush isn't lying, he obviously is.

I back Deliciously_Saucy 110% on this Debate... Sorry all you God loving zombies but wake up, nobody is questioning the exsistance of God, we are saying what place does religion have in politics, and if it does hold ground why does it ?

You know I am against religion in politics directly, since politics should be independent in general. The main problem is that always the minority gets suppressed. If it's an "atheistic state" act won't have to you like they would if you be like they are. This actually goes far further than we may think. This is where ll the racism and nazism comes from. =/ Only because a group of people is in the majority, doesn't mean they are better. =/

Please try to keep your posts consisting of part the topics title
I'm posting this up to show how bad religion can get. Matters like the above should not be connected in anyway to government rulings. Oh and Christians: THIS IS WHAT YOUR FOLLOWING Your book, not mine.

Humans may say it is God's word, but you need to consider 2 things:
1. The laws earlier were much more strict. A good example is this one:
"If the house you have built goes broke and kills the wife of it's owner, your wife will be killed as well." or something similar.
2. Humans wrote it. They could have put in whatever they want. That's why you have to be VERY careful when reading the Bible. =/ It's a book, a book may contain false information. =/ Ataraxy2 summed it up quite good already.

Only evolution and satanism allows murder.

There are no amounts of ellipses that can express my utter shock at your stupidity.

<3

It's what happened to me- my parents are Fundamentalists and brainwashed me into that shit as well. BUT I AM CURED BY THE SAVING GRACE OF THE GODDESS ATHE! Oh glory HALLELUJAH!

Lol, if you didn't know Saucy WAS also once Christian. xD

I'll let you know right now that you quoted parts of the bible that didn't even relate to anything that Christians actually follow, you seriously don't believe they live by a book - word for word. And if you do you've obviously never met a Christian and are mindlessly attacking.

So what you're saying is that Christians don't follow the Bible?

They do. But they don't follow it word for word, but the meaning behind.

So you're saying that a Christian family kills the kids when they swear at them?

Well, they should (unless this is OT stuff). There are parts of the NT that a lot of Christians nowadays would disagree with, such as the part where Jesus says that people can't divorce and remarry because it would be adultery.

It is. As long as your wife is still alive (since it literaly say "until death divorces us"), it's a big sin to be with another woman during that time. You can get divorced on the paper, but only death can get you divorced within the Church. That means you don't have to live with the woman you re married to, yes.

Leaders should act for the better of the public residing in the populus rather than acting on a notion of a devine force or things they claim to hear in their own heads or opinions.

Acting to their own needs is not why they are appointed the power of the people... and the people in most countries now come from ALL religious backgrounds.

I agree, but how can this happen without a new system? If there are things that can be manipulated for personal gain then they will be. What methods can be installed to stop politicians from using religion as a method for vote-gaining?

To finish off my post and keep this on topic, I want to say when I entered this topic I wasn't really sure what to think about this matter, but now I think you are totally right. Nowadays many leaders are abusing religion and therefore State and Church should be separated. I agree. Sadly, I have no idea how to stop them from abusing religion... :=

And I am unlocking this now. Anymore spam/offtopic and I'll just delete it.

OH CRAP! I think this is the longest post be me ever...

You're calling the mutation between a chimp brain and a human brain positive, but there wasn't any mutation since humans never evolved from anything, let alone apes.

And I got the information that people 3000 years ago knew that everything was in essence nothing more than energy from the official doctrines.

My point with saying the scientists discovered it recently is obvious, they aren't discovering new things, they are "discovering" things that intelligent people have known for thousands of years.

That "leave a bottle of water" thing wasn't really thought through was it?
If I leave a bottle of water for a few days bacteria come to the bottle, yes.
If I leave a bottle of rain-water in a vacuum after being distilled to perfection, no bacteria.

I agree with you about evolution not being finished though.

Were people better off 1000 years ago without nuclear weapons, cars, airplanes etc?
Yes, they definately were.

Humans are the stupidest creatures on earth.

You are a human as well.

Ugh, you don't have to rub it in my face.
Being human for the most part is one constant embarassment after another, there are so many pathetic idiots who refuse to grow up in the world, never thinking for themselves, listening to what the government tells them.

And yes, I'm saying humans are no better than animals, yet they aren't animals.
Animals are better than humans.

The part about schools and kids from the US, I didn't get the part, were you saying your school was glorifying the US, were you calling me american?

Evolution doesn't only allow murder, it encourages murder, it's the basics of the whole creed, survival of the fittest.

And cat or whatever, evolution isn't a scientific fact, it's a theory, theres nothing scientific about it.
(Sorry saucy, theres a cat in the picture, but I guess you get offended by that since you're convinced cats and artichokes share a common ancestry with you)

Did you know that any animal poo is destructing the Earth in a no matter how little way? Other than that I have already stated how humans depend on what they have created.

That's called manure.. It makes things grow, not the other way around.

Why can't he? Since now you've only given false or partially false facts. I agree with gonorrhoea (or how you call him: the cat) in the part where he says that you obviously have now idea about evolution. Not knowing about something and telling how it's bad is the greatest ignorance if you didn't know. Oh yes, before you even have time to think up about what to reply to this prt of my post: There is one bigger ignorance; that's when you deny that you're ignorant. And even before you are calling me ignorant, read what I have written above. I am very aware of the polution the human race caused. But that was because they didn't KNOW it would polute the Earth. Here comes the part in that proves that humans DID learn something, since some of them are trying to save the planet.

I'll feature some about this below.
And regarding the trying to save the planet... Too little too late.
If all the power plants closed down, all the cars stopped being driven, all the airplanes stopped flying and all the pollution stopped 10 years ago
it would still be too late, we're fucked.

You've never heard of the 12 crusades?! They strongest believers went of to kill people.

Like I said, they killed, so they're not christian, no matter what they claimed.

The cars and airplanes, you're not supposed to get them fully cleaned, you're supposed to stop using them all together.
But none of that matters anymore, we should all go ahead and buy a V8 car and just drive everywhere, worst case scenario, humanity dies 10-15 years earlier, no big deal.

And cat, evolutionism is the disease, not the other religions.

K, kool. Uhhh I don't know what he thinks about it, but you calling him "Cat" is starting to piss me off.

Agreed. He has a pseudonym here. Calling him "cat" shows that you have no respect to others. Why do you expect us to respect you then?

I call him cat because his avatar has a picture of a cat, at first I didn't bother reading the name so I decided to stick with cat.

And on the topic I never believe any of you will change your mind no matter what I say, and I'm convinced none of you actually believe what is said here makes a difference, people have been arguing about this for a decades, we're not going to end that argument here.

I'm just doing this because I love instigating. (yes I'm a drama whore, big surprise)


And now for saucy, (and a little bit for blizzard too)

All of the quotes you took were from the laws in the old testament, which no longer apply, maybe you should have read up on that before posting it.
Some quotes were even from the Torah, the central creed of Judaism.


The old testament is important, but according to the bible, those laws were abolished by the messiah.
Meaning those laws are not to be followed.
Aswell as the messiah fulfilling the work of the priests, there were no longer any use for them.
Meaning the church is obsolete and no longer a part of real christianity, the church is just bullshit basically.

And I'm not here to prove my theory, (which you don't know anything about I might add, apart from the fact that it's obviously not evolution based) I want you to prove yours.


All I did was to add to the statement You made, where you claimed evolution to be a science and a fact, which it is not.

Micro-evolution (that some animals have different fur color, some are smaller some are bigger etc.) is a fact, and everyone knows that, no religion says otherwise.

But Macro-evolution (that hamsters can feasibly grow on corn stalks, given enough time), stellar evolution, chemical evolution, planetary evolution and organic evolution are merely theories.

I'm not going to prove my beliefs because they are religious, meaning you can't prove them, thats why it's called FAITH and not FACT.

You believe in evolution, theres no evidence that it happened, so you're forced to believe in it, which makes it a religion, or a creed.
But not a fact.

I admit that mine is a religon, I want you to admit that yours is too.

Also an all knowing, all powerful god would have no reason to create.

Buddhas and sentient beings both grow out of One Mind, and there is no other reality than this Mind. It has been in existence since the beginningless past; it knows neither birth nor death; it is neither blue nor yellow; it has neither shape nor form; it is beyond the category of being and non-being; it is not to be measured by age, old or new; it is neither long nor short; it is neither large nor small; for it transcends all limits, words, traces, and opposites. It must be taken just as it is in itself; when an attempt is made on our part to grasp it in our thoughts, it eludes. It is like space whose boundaries are altogether beyond measurement; no concepts are applicable here.

It's a god saucy, it doesn't have to make sense or follow any laws or have a reason for doing things, there is no impossible to a god, it can do whatever it wants to.

Not neccesarry useless, but I agree up to some point. It's a neccessary evil, if we like it or not. There are more and more people on the Earth and somehow we have to manage that. To prove that it's not useless, I ask you, were the people better off 1000 years ago without that? I don't think so.

Elegy seems to think that humanity is in some way utterly destroying the world, that the governments and corporations are all in a big conspiracy to do this AND PEOPLE DON'T EVEN CARE. So we were obviously better off when we weren't negatively affecting the environment.

Also, Blizzard, sorry to get off topic BUT I MUST KNOW, where the fuck do you live anyways?

As for the original topic,

You know, I was taught history in my school about the history of the U.S.A. Do you REALLY believe they taught me such glorious things as the kids in the U.S.A. are taught? School is partially used to manipulate the youth IF YOU DIDN'T KNOW. One more thing such as evolution (like you are claiming) doesn't make a difference, don't you think so?

Eugh, I hate this but there's no way to totally get rid of it. It'd be great if, say, history class was taught from a NPOV, but unfortunately it's been tainted by nationalism and Christianity. American history courses blatantly overlook atrocities that aren't slavery or the massacre/mass eviction of aboriginal tribes. I don't know about the coursework in other nations, of course.

You're calling the mutation between a chimp brain and a human brain positive, but there wasn't any mutation since humans never evolved from anything, let alone apes.

Because, good sir (science hello), humans didn't evolve from apes. Humans and modern ape species both evolved from a common ancestor.

My point with saying the scientists discovered it recently is obvious, they aren't discovering new things, they are "discovering" things that intelligent people have known for thousands of years.

beside that thousands of years ago, people lived in mud huts, believed the Earth is flat, lived up to 40 years and fought tribal wars on a daily basis. And bronze age texts like "Bible" didn't help change that in any way.

Evolution doesn't only allow murder, it encourages murder, it's the basics of the whole creed, survival of the fittest.

Evolution is not a creed, you moron. It is a theory based on a factual observation. If more creatures are born than the environment can sustain, it's normal that a part of them will die, and it's pretty normal the ones unfit to survive will die first. Those who die don't reproduce, so features that helped the other creatures survive in that certain environment will be passed on to their offspring.

What you described is "natural selection", and the key word is natural. It occurs in nature on a daily basis. 40-60% offspring of most animals dies within weeks after birth. It happens even in some poor human communities. No one glorifies that, and in fact no evolutionist would want such a situation. It's just what you get if you let people reproduce without constraint. And who propagates mass procreation? Evolutionists? No, sir, religious fundamentalists.

Like I said, they killed, so they're not christian, no matter what they claimed.

Let me just remark that if christianity wasn't spread through Europe by brutal conquests and the New World through genocides of native religious groups, christianity would die out. Pacifistic faiths like zoroastrianism end up usually destroyed by aggressive faiths like islam. Survival of the fittest on ideological scale, also known as memetic selection.

But Macro-evolution (that hamsters can feasibly grow on corn stalks, given enough time), stellar evolution, chemical evolution, planetary evolution and organic evolution are merely theories.

I don't get it about hamsters. Macro-evolution and micro-evolution and never divided in modern darwinistic fusion theory, and it's only the opponents of evolution who use this (nonsensical) division, because somehow they believe they can get away believing in micro- but not in macro- evolution.

Stellar evolution has nothing to do with evolutionary theory at all and, I guess, you need to check what it is in some dictionary in the near future.

It's a god saucy, it doesn't have to make sense or follow any laws or have a reason for doing things, there is no impossible to a god, it can do whatever it wants to.

Shortly put, the eternal argument that God can do everything. If you can imagine things which can escape the laws of physics, logic and time, why need a God? Let's just say the world itself existed forever and we need no creator.

And I got the information that people 3000 years ago knew that everything was in essence nothing more than energy from the official doctrines.

What?

My point with saying the scientists discovered it recently is obvious, they aren't discovering new things, they are "discovering" things that intelligent people have known for thousands of years.

...What?

whatever, evolution isn't a scientific fact, it's a theory, theres nothing scientific about it.

There's already been evidence given for it, I've yet to see any counterargument. Whatsoever.

(Sorry saucy, theres a cat in the picture, but I guess you get offended by that since you're convinced cats and artichokes share a common ancestry with you)

...Are you in the 6th grade?

I'll feature some about this below.
And regarding the trying to save the planet... Too little too late.
If all the power plants closed down, all the cars stopped being driven, all the airplanes stopped flying and all the pollution stopped 10 years ago
it would still be too late, we're fucked.

I've already addressed this- the environment is changing, it is not being destroyed. Also, many of these changes can be perceived as negative (such as global warming), but it's not THAT hopeless to try and fix things.

Like I said, they killed, so they're not christian, no matter what they claimed.

Why do you fucking judge people like that, eh? Do you know what they're thinking? Also, I've said it before, WAR IS NOT FUCKING MURDER. GOD FUCKING ALLOWS IT IN THE FUCKING BIBLE.

The cars and airplanes, you're not supposed to get them fully cleaned, you're supposed to stop using them all together.

I bet your secret dream car is a Hummer. Does your Mommy drive one?

And on the topic I never believe any of you will change your mind no matter what I say, and I'm convinced none of you actually believe what is said here makes a difference, people have been arguing about this for a decades, we're not going to end that argument here.

We won't change our minds because you're making outlandish claims with no evidence, only by slandering, distorting and ignoring information, and avoiding questions.

I'm just doing this because I love instigating. (yes I'm a drama whore, big surprise)

I bet you have some lovely emo poetry on your MySpace.

The old testament is important, but according to the bible, those laws were abolished by the messiah.

Are Jews not real Jews if they don't follow them, or are they not real Jews if they do kill?

And I'm not here to prove my theory, (which you don't know anything about I might add, apart from the fact that it's obviously not evolution based) I want you to prove yours.

It'd help if you tried to debunk anything we've said, or any of the evidence we've given.

All I did was to add to the statement You made, where you claimed evolution to be a science and a fact, which it is not.

I claimed evolution is a scientific law, not a fact, since there are no solid facts.

Micro-evolution (that some animals have different fur color, some are smaller some are bigger etc.) is a fact, and everyone knows that, no religion says otherwise.

You don't know what microevolution is either. You fail at life.

But Macro-evolution (that hamsters can feasibly grow on corn stalks, given enough time), stellar evolution, chemical evolution, planetary evolution and organic evolution are merely theories.

What the fuck? Corn stalks -> hamsters? Why don't you provide an example that IS feasible, like dinosaurs -> birds.
Stellar evolution? Chemical evolution? What the fucking fuck!?!

I'm not going to prove my beliefs because they are religious, meaning you can't prove them, thats why it's called FAITH and not FACT.

That's a horrible excuse to be ignorant, and why I abandoned Christianity.

You believe in evolution, theres no evidence that it happened, so you're forced to believe in it, which makes it a religion, or a creed.

I hate you. There is fucking evidence for it, you just have to look for it. You can start in this thread. You can go to talkorigins.com. You can just fucking google it.

I admit that mine is a religon, I want you to admit that yours is too.

I would if it was true.

It's a god saucy, it doesn't have to make sense or follow any laws or have a reason for doing things, there is no impossible to a god, it can do whatever it wants to.

Oh shi-

Ps, I'll read Follower of Dawkins' post when I get back, but I must say I know this guy and he's fucking A. He's also not Jesus Hitler.

You're calling the mutation between a chimp brain and a human brain positive, but there wasn't any mutation since humans never evolved from anything, let alone apes.

Why did you even mention it then?

My point with saying the scientists discovered it recently is obvious, they aren't discovering new things, they are "discovering" things that intelligent people have known for thousands of years.

No, not discovering, but proving. Quantum physics wasn't existent 150 years ago. And that IS new. Also, 3000 years ago (or whenever) it was only BELIEVED, it wasn't known that atoms exist.

If I leave a bottle of rain-water in a vacuum after being distilled to perfection, no bacteria.

Of course I meant a CLOSED BOTTLE. And yes, I forgot something.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bacteria

What does bacteria consist of?!

I agree with you about evolution not being finished though.

You've just said, you don't believe it exists. Why can you agree with me if it doesn't even exist according to your earlier posts?

Were people better off 1000 years ago without nuclear weapons, cars, airplanes etc?
Yes, they definately were.

Were people better off 1000 years ago with the plague (yeah, I know it wasn't 1000 years ago, but you get the point), weak economy, no better transporting devices (only horses and such !_!), death because you get a little stronger cold and endless pain because of toothache? You are never considering the other side of the medal.

Ugh, you don't have to rub it in my face.
Being human for the most part is one constant embarassment after another, there are so many pathetic idiots who refuse to grow up in the world, never thinking for themselves, listening to what the government tells them.

These are idiots in general. I don't even talk to people like that. You shouldn't be generalizing.

And yes, I'm saying humans are no better than animals, yet they aren't animals.
Animals are better than humans.

a) Somebody points a gun at you. You tell him to lower the gun.
b) A wild and angry lion is in front of you. You tell him not to attack and kill you.

I dunno about you, but I would prefer situation a). And Humans have something called mind what makes them a better survivor.

The part about schools and kids from the US, I didn't get the part, were you saying your school was glorifying the US, were you calling me american?

I was being on topic (and you should as well), this wasn't directed at you.

Evolution doesn't only allow murder, it encourages murder, it's the basics of the whole creed, survival of the fittest.

If you didn't know, you won't live long if you stop eating now, because killing animals is murdering. And again: Evolution is not a religion! And also you can't "believe" in Evolution and go kill half a million Iraqi (or how many died there...) nd say "Evolution told me.", because that would also mean "We have to eat them all." according to you.

And cat or whatever, evolution isn't a scientific fact, it's a theory, theres nothing scientific about it.
(Sorry saucy, theres a cat in the picture, but I guess you get offended by that since you're convinced cats and artichokes share a common ancestry with you)

Maybe you want to see us again in 48 hours? Either you stop flaming or I'll lock this and you'll get banned. Didn't you say yourself, "There is no need to get mean..."? Oh yes, you did:

Ugh, you don't have to rub it in my face.

Why can't he? Since now you've only given false or partially false facts. I agree with gonorrhoea (or how you call him: the cat) in the part where he says that you obviously have now idea about evolution. Not knowing about something and telling how it's bad is the greatest ignorance if you didn't know. Oh yes, before you even have time to think up about what to reply to this part of my post: There is one bigger ignorance; that's when you deny that you're ignorant. And even before you are calling me ignorant, read what I have written above. I am very aware of the polution the human race caused. But that was because they didn't KNOW it would polute the Earth. Here comes the part in that proves that humans DID learn something, since some of them are trying to save the planet.

I'll feature some about this below.
And regarding the trying to save the planet... Too little too late.
If all the power plants closed down, all the cars stopped being driven, all the airplanes stopped flying and all the pollution stopped 10 years ago
it would still be too late, we're fucked.

Oh you did a whole research on that and now you can predict the future, huh?

You've never heard of the 12 crusades?! They strongest believers went of to kill people.

Like I said, they killed, so they're not christian, no matter what they claimed.

So all the people in the middle age were unbelievers, sure.

And cat, evolutionism is the disease, not the other religions.

K, kool. Uhhh I don't know what he thinks about it, but you calling him "Cat" is starting to piss me off.

Agreed. He has a pseudonym here. Calling him "cat" shows that you have no respect to others. Why do you expect us to respect you then?

I call him cat because his avatar has a picture of a cat, at first I didn't bother reading the name so I decided to stick with cat.

I didn't ask you why you call him cat (it's pretty obvious), but I've told you to show a little bit more respect by at least typing down his name or AT LEAST copy-pasting it, since you seem to like to do that.

And on the topic I never believe any of you will change your mind no matter what I say, and I'm convinced none of you actually believe what is said here makes a difference, people have been arguing about this for a decades, we're not going to end that argument here.

You won't believe it, but I've just said the same about you in my previous post:

Not knowing about something and telling how it's bad is the greatest ignorance if you didn't know. Oh yes, before you even have time to think up about what to reply to this prt of my post: There is one bigger ignorance; that's when you deny that you're ignorant.

(yes I'm a drama whore, big surprise)

Lol, yeah I noticed.

And now for saucy, (and a little bit for blizzard too)

All of the quotes you took were from the laws in the old testament, which no longer apply, maybe you should have read up on that before posting it.
Some quotes were even from the Torah, the central creed of Judaism.
The old testament is important, but according to the bible, those laws were abolished by the messiah.
Meaning those laws are not to be followed.
Aswell as the messiah fulfilling the work of the priests, there were no longer any use for them.
Meaning the church is obsolete and no longer a part of real christianity, the church is just bullshit basically.

*claps* Somebody made his homework. Didn't see that coming.

And I'm not here to prove my theory, (which you don't know anything about I might add, apart from the fact that it's obviously not evolution based) I want you to prove yours.

I'm not here either to prove anything. I am waiting for you to prove yours as well. Dead end, eh?

All I did was to add to the statement You made, where you claimed evolution to be a science and a fact, which it is not.

Billions Millions of people think otherwise. Don't you think you COULD be wrong? And nobody here said Evolution to be a fact. Read the posts better, don't just skim them.

Micro-evolution (that some animals have different fur color, some are smaller some are bigger etc.) is a fact, and everyone knows that, no religion says otherwise.

But Macro-evolution (that hamsters can feasibly grow on corn stalks, given enough time), stellar evolution, chemical evolution, planetary evolution and organic evolution are merely theories.

Lol, this is connected to chemistry which is not a theory.

I'm not going to prove my beliefs because they are religious, meaning you can't prove them, thats why it's called FAITH and not FACT.

Fine. Then you have no right claiming we're all doomed, since you ONLY BELIEVE IT. I'm not telling you "THERE IS A GOD, YOU HAVE TO BELIEVE IN HIM", so you should do the same.

But it's funny how you've suddenly changed your mind, since it was fact all along until now.

You believe in evolution, theres no evidence that it happened, so you're forced to believe in it, which makes it a religion, or a creed.
But not a fact.

It's logical. That's why I say it COULD have happened. Somebody gives you a poisoned glass of milk. You BELIEVE it's normal milk, that makes it a religion?

I admit that mine is a religon, I want you to admit that yours is too.

Yours is not a religion. Are there tenths millions of people who share your view, YOUR EXACT THE SAME VIEW? If not, then it's just a sect. And we all know what sects are. Again, if you didn't read the link from Saladin, do it now.

Also an all knowing, all powerful god would have no reason to create.

Buddhas and sentient beings both grow out of One Mind, and there is no other reality than this Mind. It has been in existence since the beginningless past; it knows neither birth nor death; it is neither blue nor yellow; it has neither shape nor form; it is beyond the category of being and non-being; it is not to be measured by age, old or new; it is neither long nor short; it is neither large nor small; for it transcends all limits, words, traces, and opposites. It must be taken just as it is in itself; when an attempt is made on our part to grasp it in our thoughts, it eludes. It is like space whose boundaries are altogether beyond measurement; no concepts are applicable here.

It's a god saucy, it doesn't have to make sense or follow any laws or have a reason for doing things, there is no impossible to a god, it can do whatever it wants to.

I agree. Take "virtual reality" in consideration. A human (or programmer, whatever) is like a god for the virtual world. He can influence the virtual world IN ANY POSSIBLE way. I believe the same relation exists between reality and God.

Elegy seems to think that humanity is in some way utterly destroying the world, that the governments and corporations are all in a big conspiracy to do this AND PEOPLE DON'T EVEN CARE. So we were obviously better off when we weren't negatively affecting the environment.

I would rather say he's obsessed with that idea. (>.<)

Also, Blizzard, sorry to get off topic BUT I MUST KNOW, where the fuck do you live anyways?

Croatia. It's a small country in Europe.

As for the original topic,

You know, I was taught history in my school about the history of the U.S.A. Do you REALLY believe they taught me such glorious things as the kids in the U.S.A. are taught? School is partially used to manipulate the youth IF YOU DIDN'T KNOW. One more thing such as evolution (like you are claiming) doesn't make a difference, don't you think so?

Eugh, I hate this but there's no way to totally get rid of it. It'd be great if, say, history class was taught from a NPOV, but unfortunately it's been tainted by nationalism and Christianity. American history courses blatantly overlook atrocities that aren't slavery or the massacre/mass eviction of aboriginal tribes. I don't know about the coursework in other nations, of course.

Yeah, I totally know what you mean... It's everywhere the same... They all are trying to brainwash us somehow. Luckily I ended up as a guy who doesn't even have on drop of nationalistic blood in his veins. xD

And <3 for the two posts above me.

Croatia. It's a small country in Europe.

Damn it, the first two thoughts in my mind were 'I have some hot Croat porn.' and 'YOU SPEAK HRVATSKI!?!?' What is wrong with me?
And I love how you immediately explain it. But you should probably say 'It's a Slavic country that broke off from Yugoslavia in the 1990s. Fucking Serbs.' More descriptive, all the countries in Europe that aren't Russia are small.

Sorry, off topic.

If you didn't know, you won't live long if you stop eating now, because killing animals is murdering. And again: Evolution is not a religion! And also you can't "believe" in Evolution and go kill half a million Iraqi (or how many died there...) nd say "Evolution told me.", because that would also mean "We have to eat them all." according to you.

Indeed you can't, but if you did that'd be much awesome.
Also, the only people who seem to subscribe to this 'evolution is a religion' bullshit are Creationists looking to discredit evolution in the same way that evolutionists discredit Creationists.

Hey guys here's some proof for Creation- http://www.drdino.com/

Millions of people think otherwise. Don't you think you COULD be wrong? And nobody here said Evolution to be a fact. Read the posts better, don't just skim them.

A Creationist personality was asked this once and he replied, 'Yes, and that is why I consistently check my Bible to make sure I don't stray.' or something to that effect. I lawled so hard, what a way to miss the point.

Not going to take every question in order, just taking them as I find them.

My faith is shared by no one else but me, same goes for every single human being in existance, theres no two people with the exact same convictions.
That is why creeds exist, to label people, brand them so they can feel some kind of messed up belonging. (I know how important this is to humans)
It's the same thing as nationalism, patriotism and racism (not that there really is a difference between the three, they're all about one group of people being better than everyone else)

You're calling the mutation between a chimp brain and a human brain positive, but there wasn't any mutation since humans never evolved from anything, let alone apes.

Why did you even mention it then?

Because:

I'm just doing this because I love instigating.

I agree with you about evolution not being finished though.

You've just said, you don't believe it exists. Why can you agree with me if it doesn't even exist according to your earlier posts?

Exactly!

a) Somebody points a gun at you. You tell him to lower the gun.
b) A wild and angry lion is in front of you. You tell him not to attack and kill you.

I dunno about you, but I would prefer situation a). And Humans have something called mind what makes them a better survivor.

A lion wouldn't attack you if you didn't intrude on the lions territory, and if you're so stupid that you would march into a lions territory, then you really deserve to be mauled for that.

I was being on topic (and you should as well), this wasn't directed at you.

Good to know, and I am on topic, sort of... Conversations take different turns with time, thats how it works.

So all the people in the middle age were unbelievers, sure.

This was a problem and it's the same problem with the world right now, they listened to their government (which at the time was the catholic church) and didn't think for themselves, I admit it was kinda hard to know what to believe when you couldn't read latin, but people do the same today, soldiers think their government knows best, like they are above normal people... I mean just look at bush, he's below normal people, he has the intellect of a mossy rock, how is he supposed to know whats good for anyone, left alone he would probably have trouble dressing himself in the mornings.

I didn't ask you why you call him cat (it's pretty obvious), but I've told you to show a little bit more respect by at least typing down his name or AT LEAST copy-pasting it, since you seem to like to do that.

I copy and paste big things like that sentence, not names.

*claps* Somebody made his homework. Didn't see that coming.

I know alot of things about alot of things, but you all seem to take my claims as insults and my insults as claims.


You call evolution fact, and a "scientific-law".
If it truly is fact, then you should without any problems be able to prove exactly how it happened beyond reasonable doubt, and account for everything from the start to now.
It's not fact if you can't prove it.

Religion isn't fact, its faith, and no one claims to be able to prove religion, but you claim evolution is a science and thus it should have been proved already, give me the evidence.

Fine. Then you have no right claiming we're all doomed, since you ONLY BELIEVE IT. I'm not telling you "THERE IS A GOD, YOU HAVE TO BELIEVE IN HIM", so you should do the same.

But it's funny how you've suddenly changed your mind, since it was fact all along until now.

I've never claimed religion to be fact, and I have all the right in the world to claim things, just as you do.

It's logical. That's why I say it COULD have happened. Somebody gives you a poisoned glass of milk. You BELIEVE it's normal milk, that makes it a religion?

Then you wouldn't mind showing me the logic behind a theory which claims everything sort of just happened by accident?

...Are you in the 6th grade?

Ah! You got me there

Why do you fucking judge people like that, eh? Do you know what they're thinking? Also, I've said it before, WAR IS NOT FUCKING MURDER. GOD FUCKING ALLOWS IT IN THE FUCKING BIBLE.

Which "fucking" bible have you've been reading, it's one of the 10 commandments, THOU SHALT NOT KILL... It really doesn't get more obvious than that, there are no exceptions.

Really, you're just grasping at straws now..

I bet your secret dream car is a Hummer. Does your Mommy drive one?

I'm not interested in cars, if I want to go somewhere I use these two things called legs, unlike people with Hummers, I'm not a lazy bum.

I bet you have some lovely emo poetry on your MySpace.

You wanna be my myspace buddy?


You don't understand that evolution is just like a religion, rooted in the beginning of life, and for your evolution theory to be called facts, you have to prove EVERYTHING that exists, how stars are formed, how planets are formed, where meteors come from, where everything comes from, and it has to be proof, scientific observation, not just a thought about how it might have been, like that cloud "in a galaxy far far away" that sends out meteors.
Religion claims that a god or gods did it, but thats faith, evolution supposedly isn't and then you can't just claim something, you have to prove it.

And that isn't really easy when you haven't been around from the very beginning.


(I am really enjoying this ^^ so much fun)

So Gonorrhoea, I was just wondering if you've watched the "The Root Of All Evil?" videos linked here.

Your opinion on all of this mirrors mine perfectly, so I don't really have anything else to say.

It's the same thing as nationalism, patriotism and racism (not that there really is a difference between the three, they're all about one group of people being better than everyone else)

No they aren't you fuck. Nationalism is usually taken to mean things such as the Greek nationalist movement, ie they wanted to break themselves from Ottoman rule. Granted, nationalism can also refer to the belief that a particular nation is better than others. Patriotism comes in varying degrees, sensible patriots just love their country- doesn't mean they have a superiority complex! Furthermore, racism is a broad category and is often used to mean not 'one race > another race' but 'this race is different than this race because X Y Z' even though there's no scientific proof (ie, Asians are generally smarter than whites but not better, as whites have other advantages).

A lion wouldn't attack you if you didn't intrude on the lions territory, and if you're so stupid that you would march into a lions territory, then you really deserve to be mauled for that.

See, you're being stupid again. In this case, often the person may not realise what they are doing. Like someone who didn't notice the lions, or a child.

This was a problem and it's the same problem with the world right now, they listened to their government (which at the time was the catholic church) and didn't think for themselves, I admit it was kinda hard to know what to believe when you couldn't read latin, but people do the same today, soldiers think their government knows best, like they are above normal people...

The government is evil and brainwashes everyone. See, all the soldiers in Iraq believe that Bush is infallible!

I mean just look at bush, he's below normal people, he has the intellect of a mossy rock, how is he supposed to know whats good for anyone, left alone he would probably have trouble dressing himself in the mornings.

I wish I could slap you for exaggerating his stupidity and his role in affairs. God, I'm so fucking tired of people bitching about Bush like it means anything.

I copy and paste big things like that sentence, not names.

Just so you know, it's gonorrhoea. Or Gono. Do you know what gonorrhoea is? It's good times in your genitals, you have that much more in terms of sexual pleasure! And your piss never did feel so refreshingly warm.

I know alot of things about alot of things, but you all seem to take my claims as insults and my insults as claims.

No, you don't. Really.

If it truly is fact, then you should without any problems be able to prove exactly how it happened beyond reasonable doubt, and account for everything from the start to now.
It's not fact if you can't prove it.

Haha, wow. Man, you're such a fucktard. I never said it was solid fact, I said it was scientific law, which does NOT mean totally fucking definite. Also, we've already provided information and 'facts' relevant to evolution that you have yet to address. I've asked you at least thrice to, but you haven't. By your logic, that means I'm right and you're wrong.

Religion isn't fact, its faith, and no one claims to be able to prove religion, but you claim evolution is a science and thus it should have been proved already, give me the evidence.

I ALREADY FUCKING DID.
Also, if religious beliefs can't be shown or demonstrated, such as Creationism or the Fatima, why bother believing them? Having blind faith is much more stupid than actually requiring evidence before believing something, especially if you go on to argue about it.

I've never claimed religion to be fact, and I have all the right in the world to claim things, just as you do.

And you've all the right to provide evidence. It'd be fucking wonderful if you did.
You also have all the right to review and criticise what we've provided! It'd be really fucking wonderful if you did.

Then you wouldn't mind showing me the logic behind a theory which claims everything sort of just happened by accident?

Idea: Read a short article about evolution. Hell, read the dictionary definition. I know at church they probably tell you that evolutionists believe everything's just random chance- but we don't. It's years upon years of natural selection and change, little by little.

Ah! You got me there

That insult was 6th grade level, this one is maybe 6/7th.

Which "fucking" bible have you've been reading, it's one of the 10 commandments, THOU SHALT NOT KILL... It really doesn't get more obvious than that, there are no exceptions.

I... can't... stop... laughing...
Seriously you fucktard, it elsewhere justifies warfare, self defence, etc. I'm not sure what the original Hebrew is, but I imagine it's not a word for word translation for the KJV. You don't even know anything about theology?! You don't stop failing at life.

I'm not interested in cars, if I want to go somewhere I use these two things called legs, unlike people with Hummers, I'm not a lazy bum.

Just so you know, legs can't take you everywhere. Nor can bicycles. You'll get tired. Or you'll need speed, or you'll have a heavy load to carry. Oh fuck, you're going to need a VEHICLE. Even if it's not a gas guzzling SUV or truck, you may end up supporting the evil bus system.

You wanna be my myspace buddy?

No, but if you have a Xanga I'll make sure to stop by some time

You don't understand that evolution is just like a religion, rooted in the beginning of life, and for your evolution theory to be called facts, you have to prove EVERYTHING that exists, how stars are formed, how planets are formed, where meteors come from, where everything comes from, and it has to be proof, scientific observation, not just a thought about how it might have been, like that cloud "in a galaxy far far away" that sends out meteors.

You do realise that science requires strenuous study, right? It's not a mythos, it's observable and documented! We do know quite a bit about start and planet formation, and meteor's origins. I'm not all that knowledgeable in astronomy to get in a detailed discussion on the subject, but if you look these up I'm sure you'll find treasure troves of information.
Don't use ignorance to make you look smart. It doesn't work well.

Religion claims that a god or gods did it, but thats faith

Why do you ascribe so much importance to faith? You'd rather believe something just because... because? No evidence, no proof... no nothing?

Silverline, I haven't. Link?

http://www.antonioedward.net/component/option,com_remository/Itemid,28/func,fileinfo/filecatid,50/parent,category

http://www.antonioedward.net/component/option,com_remository/Itemid,28/func,fileinfo/filecatid,49/parent,category

parts 1 & 2 =o

You don't understand that evolution is just like a religion, rooted in the beginning of life, and for your evolution theory to be called facts, you have to prove EVERYTHING that exists, how stars are formed, how planets are formed, where meteors come from, where everything comes from, and it has to be proof, scientific observation, not just a thought about how it might have been, like that cloud "in a galaxy far far away" that sends out meteors.
Religion claims that a god or gods did it, but thats faith, evolution supposedly isn't and then you can't just claim something, you have to prove it.

Until Evolution is proven then it is like a religion, complete bullshit or something that is more than likely false.

Nothing created god. You read all the religious text and they will say god was always there. Then you apply this to science, energy can not be created nor destroyed. This means that energy was always there. If something is born, created, then one day it will die, or be destroyed. i just wanted to say that religion and science go hand in hand. They are basically same thing but religion focus on the sciences to life a proper life, be good, eat right, and so on, in others religion is spirituality. Science is why our world is the way it is, not what is right or wrong. Also, the guy who said he hated god, OKAY! You can believe in god or believe in flying chickens, as long as your intentions are good and your are a good citizen, your faith doesn't not matter. You can be Christian, Hindu, and Muslim, or hate good and do good things. When you go to jail, are they going to ask your faith? Faith is more like a guide. May mistake faith as a rule book but remember we are all different and apply things different. As long as we are good, nothing else matters.

I'm just doing this because I love instigating.

So you're full of shit?

You don't understand that evolution is just like a religion, rooted in the beginning of life, and for your evolution theory to be called facts, you have to prove EVERYTHING that exists, how stars are formed, how planets are formed, where meteors come from, where everything comes from, and it has to be proof, scientific observation, not just a thought about how it might have been, like that cloud "in a galaxy far far away" that sends out meteors.
Religion claims that a god or gods did it, but thats faith, evolution supposedly isn't and then you can't just claim something, you have to prove it.

Read this.

Because Emogy won't answer my responses, there's no point in replying to his.
Next time, answer some fucking questions!

Follower of Dawkins: Your awesome. I have stated many times that no were does the theory of evolution state that we come from "monkeys" but people tend to avoid the hard questions around here. Hello good Sir and welcome to the forums!

As I stated above, no it (God) has no gender. He is above this earthly categoration.

And yet you just placed it in one. I guess it is a man's world eh?

Well, it says God created us on his image (sp?). If we love and want to create life (children), why shouldn't God think the same way? But again, this is just a speculation.

Sadly when there is something that exists outside of scientific law and all boundaries don't apply, all you can do is speculate. I just happen to keep my "speculations" within the laws of physics. I was always told that god created science, and that its laws don't apply to him ( it ). With that said, my reply would always be that scientific law isn't a physical thing, so to speak of, and that it would be necessary for even a god to exist. If there was no law surrounding god, then it wouldn't exist. The law may be different, but it would have to be there. If a god exists, in a place outside of the mind, then its domain would have visible laws, even if they where: there are none.

Of course then you get the other types who say that science and faith go hand in hand, and of course this type of guy likes to say he believes in science, but simply ignores parts and cuts and edits certain wordings to make them fit in. It's done in the same fashion of cheating at a jigsaw puzzle.

I feel that when a Christian debates about science fitting in with their faith, it's like a fat guy telling you to eat healthy.

Christianty is a reflection of and led by humans, who are flawed as well. Lol, we're trying our best here. (-_-')
That's the part where Jesus comes in. He kinds said "So like, yeah... Try to be like me and you might be saved if it's enough." Again, we're just humans. It's all far beyond our comprehension...

Lol, you made Jesus sound like a surfer dude.

"It's all far beyond our comprehension", this is just another brick wall answer used to back up lack of evidence, just like "He always existed". I don't respect it.

You know I am against religion in politics directly, since politics should be independent in general. The main problem is that always the minority gets suppressed. If it's an "atheistic state" act won't have to you like they would if you be like they are. This actually goes far further than we may think. This is where ll the racism and nazism comes from. =/ Only because a group of people is in the majority, doesn't mean they are better. =/

Yes but Atheism only teaches about gaining evidence for ideas and ignoring ones that exist on speculation and faith. We just don't feel the idea of a god is plausible enough to entertain.

Don't worry I get what your saying, you mean that if the positions where reversed then we would do to them ( in a sense ) as they did to us. Well, yeah, that most likely would happen, but I feel it's simply one of the steps in the progress of man. It's really nothing more then natural selection, no? A small change for the better, spreading out into the large.

I feel in a few decades that the term "Atheist" wont exist. I believe that it will simply be the norm' and no one would consider them selves to be that. The only downside to this is that Christians could use this as "Satan's 2000 year rain" and still believe in their faith...

Humans may say it is God's word, but you need to consider 2 things:
1. The laws earlier were much more strict. A good example is this one:
"If the house you have built goes broke and kills the wife of it's owner, your wife will be killed as well." or something similar.
2. Humans wrote it. They could have put in whatever they want. That's why you have to be VERY careful when reading the Bible. =/ It's a book, a book may contain false information. =/ Ataraxy2 summed it up quite good already.

1) I thought god had direct manipulation of what went into the bible. Why would he allow something that is only directed at a specific time period?

2) Of course they wrote it, but wasn't it written with the divine influence of god to be infallible?

To finish off my post and keep this on topic, I want to say when I entered this topic I wasn't really sure what to think about this matter, but now I think you are totally right. Nowadays many leaders are abusing religion and therefore State and Church should be separated. I agree. Sadly, I have no idea how to stop them from abusing religion... :=

And I am unlocking this now. Anymore spam/offtopic and I'll just delete it. Angry

Well I'm glad this topic could help you decide. :drphil: I don't feel that you have to be an Atheist to agree that church and state should be fully separate and I thank you for showing that. When it comes down to it, politicians are abusing your faith for their own personal needs which is quite wrong, there really needs to be something done about it. :/drphil:

Thanks for unlocking it, I fell asleep in the spa... ...

Indeed you can't, but if you did that'd be much awesome.
Also, the only people who seem to subscribe to this 'evolution is a religion' bullshit are Creationists looking to discredit evolution in the same way that evolutionists discredit Creationists.

Completely agree, loled at the proof.

So you're full of shit?

Lol. Did it need to be pointed out..?


_________________________________________________________________________________________ ___________________________
EDIT;

Matthew 5:17-19 "Jesus strongly approves of the prophets. He hasn't the slightest objection to the cruelties of the old testament".

Lol, if you didn't know Saucy WAS also once Christian. xD

Shhhh..! >_<

Actually I think being Christian for that part of my life was very helpful. Like now I can tell people I'm not stubborn ....

I remember the day that I disowned my faith, it was like a cloud was lifted from my mind. Previously I developed a huge interest in things of a scientific nature ( math, astronomy ) and developed a new way of thinking, ie: asking questions. I tried mixing the two ( science and religion ) and it obviously clashed quite badly, at the time I felt quite insane, and one day in another self exploring moment it suddenly dawned on me that the simplest answer was that there is no god. I brought this up to say that I rejected the idea of god for the right reasons ( I developed a brain ) compared to those who denounce it because of a tragedy in their lives, like losing a loved one. 

gonorrhoea, how did you lose your faith?

I know this guy and he's fucking A. He's also not Jesus Hitler.

Yeh I don't think Jesus Hitler would say "good sir" . I requested a few times that they un-ban JH but I don't think they will, I miss him.

And you've all the right to provide evidence. It'd be fucking wonderful if you did.
You also have all the right to review and criticise what we've provided! It'd be really fucking wonderful if you did.

I thought I made it clear that there are no evidence, do you even read my posts?

Idea: Read a short article about evolution. Hell, read the dictionary definition. I know at church they probably tell you that evolutionists believe everything's just random chance- but we don't. It's years upon years of natural selection and change, little by little.

I have never been affiliated with any so-called "religious" organizations, that includes the church.

I... can't... stop... laughing...
Seriously you fucktard, it elsewhere justifies warfare, self defence, etc. I'm not sure what the original Hebrew is, but I imagine it's not a word for word translation for the KJV. You don't even know anything about theology?! You don't stop failing at life.

Keep in mind, I already explained that the OLD TESTAMENT laws do not apply anymore.
And the King James Version of the bible is flawed and mis-translated.

Just so you know, legs can't take you everywhere. Nor can bicycles. You'll get tired. Or you'll need speed, or you'll have a heavy load to carry. Oh fuck, you're going to need a VEHICLE. Even if it's not a gas guzzling SUV or truck, you may end up supporting the evil bus system.

Legs can take my everywhere, if speed is necessary, I'll start walking earlier.
If I get tired, I'll stop and rest. If I have a heavy load to carry, I skip it and do something else instead..

You do realise that science requires strenuous study, right? It's not a mythos, it's observable and documented! We do know quite a bit about start and planet formation, and meteor's origins. I'm not all that knowledgeable in astronomy to get in a detailed discussion on the subject, but if you look these up I'm sure you'll find treasure troves of information.
Don't use ignorance to make you look smart. It doesn't work well.

I have looked it up, there is no knowledge of where meteors come from, there has never been an observation of a star forming.
Only theories.

Why do you ascribe so much importance to faith? You'd rather believe something just because... because? No evidence, no proof... no nothing?

There doesn't need to be a reason for believing, humans don't need a reason for acting, animals have a reason for everything they do, but we're not animals.
And I have just as much evidence for my faith as you have for yours, and in my opinion mine is more likely.

So you're full of shit?

Basically yep.
I'm making claims without anything to back them up just so people will get angry.
Because I'm just that bored!

Ideas in evolutionary biology change rapidly as new evidence is found.

So they haven't changed then.

That website was boring and claimed evolution doesn't concern the ultimate reality, how can evolution say there is no god and then not supply this "scientific" explanation for how everything came to be? Then by all logical arguments it can't rule out a diety as the creator of everything, yet if a diety created everything, there are moral values and a right and a wrong way to act, the website however claimed there are no moral values imposed by the evolution theory, and there are no supernatural things.
How does this work out?

And yet you just placed it in one. I guess it is a man's world eh?

The Hebrew god is referred to as a male since Jesus gave the people the symbolic picture of the god as a great father in the sky, which would make it easier for the people to feel a "bond" between themselves and their god.

No one actually belives this god is a man sitting on a cloud in the sky as pictured so many times, though.

And which questions haven't I answered?

Sadly when there is something that exists outside of scientific law and all boundaries don't apply, all you can do is speculate. I just happen to keep my "speculations" within the laws of physics. I was always told that god created science, and that its laws don't apply to him ( it ). With that said, my reply would always be that scientific law isn't a physical thing, so to speak of, and that it would be necessary for even a god to exist. If there was no law surrounding god, then it wouldn't exist. The law may be different, but it would have to be there. If a god exists, in a place outside of the mind, then its domain would have visible laws, even if they where: there are none.

I don't think you're really grasping this concept of nothing being impossible for a god.

I feel that when a Christian debates about science fitting in with their faith, it's like a fat guy telling you to eat healthy.

Although I agree that christians don't need to try and justify their faith and impose it on others, I think evolutionists have to do the same thing, just like you don't want to hear about religion in school, people who have a faith don't want to hear about evolution in school.

And that fat guy telling you to eath healthy thing, just because they guy is fat doesn't mean he is completely oblivious to what you should eat and what you shouldn't eat.

"It's all far beyond our comprehension", this is just another brick wall answer used to back up lack of evidence, just like "He always existed". I don't respect it.

Again, there is no evidence to present, F-A-I-T-H. Aceptance of ideals, beliefs, etc., which are not necessarily demonstrable through experimentation or reason.

Atheism is a faith, you have to believe that god doesn't exist, it's a contradictory word, like Anarchy or New Archaic.

To finish off my post and keep this on topic, I want to say when I entered this topic I wasn't really sure what to think about this matter, but now I think you are totally right. Nowadays many leaders are abusing religion and therefore State and Church should be separated. I agree. Sadly, I have no idea how to stop them from abusing religion... :=

This is where I first came in, State and Church don't need to be separated since the CHURCH is not a religious institution anymore.
If any of you have ever been to church you know that the "priests" just stand there babbling nonsense about things that have absolutely nothing to do with the religion.

Indeed you can't, but if you did that'd be much awesome.
Also, the only people who seem to subscribe to this 'evolution is a religion' bullshit are Creationists looking to discredit evolution in the same way that evolutionists discredit Creationists.

Anything that you have to believe in is a faith or a creed.. And all the evidence that has been layed out pertaining to actual physical matter has been false, these websites with "logical" conclusions as to why evolution is corred are not evidence, I can use logic to prove that women are evil and that motion is an illusion, logic can be used to prove anything.

I'll believe in evolution when I see a missing link that isn't fake.

Elegy - I Back you
There are many people, including renowed Scinetists and theologeons that don't fully back Darwin's Theory of Evolution... Hence why it's still a theory, but it is accepted widley and many elements have been proven, yet there are still holes. Darwin's Theory remains a theory as gentics and DNA sequencing still shows floors in his theory. Part of his theory goes in to explaining why Humans have some Extra organs and he predicted one day we wont have those organs, he also stated that in time we may not have a little toe due to it being redundant, but for changes of that nature the DNA for our make up would have to change... Without Mutation it's not possible according to Genitics and bio-oligists.

Really though you should post about all this in the Life Debate thread.

Back to Topic

In the days of Roman's, Sparta and Troy etc... The Kings would turn to their priests and Gods for advice, religion held a high standing back in the days of yesteryear.  I think now some still see those same values as being nobal, saying your acting in the manner of the Gods or for the Gods is only going to be seen as Devine by those of the same faith...

I wish every one did convert to the way of yesteryear and we still look up to the Sun and thank Apollo... Kind of...
Roman / Norse / Hindu Gods Kick butt...

If we still had seperate Gods for different things then I would have very little problems in adopting a religion, it would make life like one big RPG...LOL

But even still using religion to pass laws or a way of life should never be forced.

And everyone lives in the ashtree Yggdrasil and the mountains are the uneven parts of the bark
And when you die you come to Valhalla where you battle on the plains of Asgard every day just for fun, and afterwards theres a feast every night where you eat Särimner the pig who comes back to life every day to do it all again.

Silly vikings.

You're calling the mutation between a chimp brain and a human brain positive, but there wasn't any mutation since humans never evolved from anything, let alone apes.

Why did you even mention it then?

Because:

I'm just doing this because I love instigating.

You haven't answered my question. You're claiming all the time Evolution is a religion dn you don't believe in it, so why do you even care if there is something like mutation mentioned in Evolution? Since it isn't real like you're claiming, why do you bother?

I agree with you about evolution not being finished though.

You've just said, you don't believe it exists. Why can you agree with me if it doesn't even exist according to your earlier posts?

Exactly!

You're not making any sense here. I asked you:

You've just said, you don't believe it exists. Why can you agree with me if it doesn't even exist according to your earlier posts?

and you just said

Exactly!

Please think before you post.

a) Somebody points a gun at you. You tell him to lower the gun.
b) A wild and angry lion is in front of you. You tell him not to attack and kill you.

I dunno about you, but I would prefer situation a). And Humans have something called mind what makes them a better survivor.

A lion wouldn't attack you if you didn't intrude on the lions territory, and if you're so stupid that you would march into a lions territory, then you really deserve to be mauled for that.

I said:

b) A wild and angry lion is in front of you. You tell him not to attack and kill you.

I asked you a simple question, why don't you answer it. I didn't ask you "Why is the lion angry?". So please stop avoiding questions. If you don't want to answer, don't even quote it. You're just making yourself look more stupid.

So all the people in the middle age were unbelievers, sure.

This was a problem and it's the same problem with the world right now, they listened to their government (which at the time was the catholic church) and didn't think for themselves, I admit it was kinda hard to know what to believe when you couldn't read latin, but people do the same today, soldiers think their government knows best, like they are above normal people... I mean just look at bush, he's below normal people, he has the intellect of a mossy rock, how is he supposed to know whats good for anyone, left alone he would probably have trouble dressing himself in the mornings.

First off the people in the middle ages were not allowed to pleasure themselves. Do you want to say, theses people were living a miserable live not because the Church said it? You're not mking any sense, again. And you totally fail to see the point.

*claps* Somebody made his homework. Didn't see that coming.

I know alot of things about alot of things, but you all seem to take my claims as insults and my insults as claims.

Yes, claiming bullshit and insulting us is pretty much the only thing you have done in this topic.

You call evolution fact, and a "scientific-law".
If it truly is fact, then you should without any problems be able to prove exactly how it happened beyond reasonable doubt, and account for everything from the start to now.
It's not fact if you can't prove it.

I can't prove that you're a guy, does that mean it's not a fact?!

Religion isn't fact, its faith, and no one claims to be able to prove religion, but you claim evolution is a science and thus it should have been proved already, give me the evidence.

I don't claim Evolution is a science, I say it's not a religion, since it is none. Now that the only thing left for Evolution is to be science isn't my fault. Say, do you even know the difference between science and religion? From what I have seen from you so far I seriously doubt that.

Fine. Then you have no right claiming we're all doomed, since you ONLY BELIEVE IT. I'm not telling you "THERE IS A GOD, YOU HAVE TO BELIEVE IN HIM", so you should do the same.

But it's funny how you've suddenly changed your mind, since it was fact all along until now.

I've never claimed religion to be fact, and I have all the right in the world to claim things, just as you do.

Again, you are evading my question. You didn't claim religion to be fact, you claimed that "WE ARE DOOMED! ARGH!" was a fact. Don't you even remember your own posts? Or are you just schizophremic? =/

It's logical. That's why I say it COULD have happened. Somebody gives you a poisoned glass of milk. You BELIEVE it's normal milk, that makes it a religion?

Then you wouldn't mind showing me the logic behind a theory which claims everything sort of just happened by accident?

Answer my question first.

You BELIEVE it's normal milk, that makes it a religion?

Why do you fucking judge people like that, eh? Do you know what they're thinking? Also, I've said it before, WAR IS NOT FUCKING MURDER. GOD FUCKING ALLOWS IT IN THE FUCKING BIBLE.

Which "fucking" bible have you've been reading, it's one of the 10 commandments, THOU SHALT NOT KILL... It really doesn't get more obvious than that, there are no exceptions.

Really, you're just grasping at straws now..

Do you even know what "THOU SHALT NOT KILL..." means? Do you even know what the word "kill" means?

Religion claims that a god or gods did it, but thats faith, evolution supposedly isn't and then you can't just claim something, you have to prove it.

It was proven numerous times. It's just your ignorance that makes you fail to see and accept it.

(I am really enjoying this ^^ so much fun)

You should get a life.

As I stated above, no it (God) has no gender. He is above this earthly categoration.

And yet you just placed it in one. I guess it is a man's world eh?

Lol, you know what I mean. Everybody says "he", so I did it on purpose. But if you haven't left Chirstianity you might have been taught this later. !_!

Well, it says God created us on his image (sp?). If we love and want to create life (children), why shouldn't God think the same way? But again, this is just a speculation.

Sadly when there is something that exists outside of scientific law and all boundaries don't apply, all you can do is speculate. I just happen to keep my "speculations" within the laws of physics. I was always told that god created science, and that its laws don't apply to him ( it ). With that said, my reply would always be that scientific law isn't a physical thing, so to speak of, and that it would be necessary for even a god to exist. If there was no law surrounding god, then it wouldn't exist. The law may be different, but it would have to be there. If a god exists, in a place outside of the mind, then its domain would have visible laws, even if they where: there are none.

I can't explain it. I can only believe. =/

Of course then you get the other types who say that science and faith go hand in hand, and of course this type of guy likes to say he believes in science, but simply ignores parts and cuts and edits certain wordings to make them fit in. It's done in the same fashion of cheating at a jigsaw puzzle.

Lol and the same Elegy is doing all the time. But I agree with you on this part. This is why sects are called "sects". They just take the parts from the Bible/Kuran/whatever and put them together like they want. =/

I feel that when a Christian debates about science fitting in with their faith, it's like a fat guy telling you to eat healthy.

Faith is supposed to "explain" stuff until science can really explain it. But meh, it's just a point of view.

"It's all far beyond our comprehension", this is just another brick wall answer used to back up lack of evidence, just like "He always existed". I don't respect it.

Fine with me, I can totally understand why.

Lol, you made Jesus sound like a surfer dude.

Jesus, the dude, LMAO! <3

I feel in a few decades that the term "Atheist" wont exist. I believe that it will simply be the norm' and no one would consider them selves to be that. The only downside to this is that Christians could use this as "Satan's 2000 year rain" and still believe in their faith...

Yeah, some Christians are really being ridiculious. (-_-') It's a shame... =/ They want to be taken seriously, but then they start talking bullshit. =/

1) I thought god had direct manipulation of what went into the bible. Why would he allow something that is only directed at a specific time period?

God gave humans the free will. He can't (or just doesn't want to? ?_?) manipulate humans in that way. So in other words, the Old Testament could easily be just made up.

2) Of course they wrote it, but wasn't it written with the divine influence of god to be infallible?

Obviously divine infuence isn't enough, since Jesus extra had to come down and tell us the Old Testament is void. =/ Kinda proves what I said under 1). (BTW, that's another reason why I do believe in God; not because of the Old Testament.)

Thanks for unlocking it, I fell asleep in the spa... ...

*kisses her to wake her up after 100 years*

And you've all the right to provide evidence. It'd be fucking wonderful if you did.
You also have all the right to review and criticise what we've provided! It'd be really fucking wonderful if you did.

I thought I made it clear that there are no evidence, do you even read my posts?

You've only made clear that you're too ignorant to open the links and read them.

Just so you know, legs can't take you everywhere. Nor can bicycles. You'll get tired. Or you'll need speed, or you'll have a heavy load to carry. Oh fuck, you're going to need a VEHICLE. Even if it's not a gas guzzling SUV or truck, you may end up supporting the evil bus system.

Legs can take my everywhere, if speed is necessary, I'll start walking earlier.
If I get tired, I'll stop and rest. If I have a heavy load to carry, I skip it and do
something else instead..

Again, I tell you come over here to Croatia. If you come to your mind until you get here, I'll stand you a drink.

You do realise that science requires strenuous study, right? It's not a mythos, it's observable and documented! We do know quite a bit about start and planet formation, and meteor's origins. I'm not all that knowledgeable in astronomy to get in a detailed discussion on the subject, but if you look these up I'm sure you'll find treasure troves of information.
Don't use ignorance to make you look smart. It doesn't work well.

I have looked it up, there is no knowledge of where meteors come from, there has never been an observation of a star forming.
Only theories.

If you didn't know, EVERYTHING was just theory, before it was proved. You can't say "It can't be, it's just a theory!", since it might come out that the theory was correct.

Why do you ascribe so much importance to faith? You'd rather believe something just because... because? No evidence, no proof... no nothing?

There doesn't need to be a reason for believing, humans don't need a reason for acting, animals have a reason for everything they do, but we're not animals.
And I have just as much evidence for my faith as you have for yours, and in my opinion mine is more likely.

Who are you to judge that your opinion is more likely?!

Basically yep.
I'm making claims without anything to back them up just so people will get angry.
Because I'm just that bored!

Temp-ban incoming!

And yet you just placed it in one. I guess it is a man's world eh?

The Hebrew god is referred to as a male since Jesus gave the people the symbolic picture of the god as a great father in the sky, which would make it easier for the people to feel a "bond" between themselves and their god.

Correct.

No one actually belives this god is a man sitting on a cloud in the sky as pictured so many times, though.

You do. You have stated it already twice. (Or even three times? Can't remember.)

And which questions haven't I answered?

Start reading this post from the beginning and you'll find out. And don't skim again.

Sadly when there is something that exists outside of scientific law and all boundaries don't apply, all you can do is speculate. I just happen to keep my "speculations" within the laws of physics. I was always told that god created science, and that its laws don't apply to him ( it ). With that said, my reply would always be that scientific law isn't a physical thing, so to speak of, and that it would be necessary for even a god to exist. If there was no law surrounding god, then it wouldn't exist. The law may be different, but it would have to be there. If a god exists, in a place outside of the mind, then its domain would have visible laws, even if they where: there are none.

I don't think you're really grasping this concept of nothing being impossible for a god.

Well, physical laws don't have to apply to a virtual world as well... =/

I feel that when a Christian debates about science fitting in with their faith, it's like a fat guy telling you to eat healthy.

Although I agree that christians don't need to try and justify their faith and impose it on others, I think evolutionists have to do the same thing, just like you don't want to hear about religion in school, people who have a faith don't want to hear about evolution in school.

The difference is that Evolution is not a religion.

Atheism is a faith, you have to believe that god doesn't exist, it's a contradictory word, like Anarchy or New Archaic.

That's true. This is the reason why Atheism is a religion. You believe there is no God.

To finish off my post and keep this on topic, I want to say when I entered this topic I wasn't really sure what to think about this matter, but now I think you are totally right. Nowadays many leaders are abusing religion and therefore State and Church should be separated. I agree. Sadly, I have no idea how to stop them from abusing religion... :=

This is where I first came in, State and Church don't need to be separated since the CHURCH is not a religious institution anymore.
If any of you have ever been to church you know that the "priests" just stand there babbling nonsense about things that have absolutely nothing to do with the religion.

I can see you've never been on a worship, since you are talking crap here. And reading a book (the Bible in this case) isn't babbling if you didn't know. Don't believe me? Open the dictionary.

Indeed you can't, but if you did that'd be much awesome.
Also, the only people who seem to subscribe to this 'evolution is a religion' bullshit are Creationists looking to discredit evolution in the same way that evolutionists discredit Creationists.

Anything that you have to believe in is a faith or a creed.. And all the evidence that has been layed out pertaining to actual physical matter has been false, these websites with "logical" conclusions as to why evolution is corred are not evidence, I can use logic to prove that women are evil and that motion is an illusion, logic can be used to prove anything.

"The root of all evil" is a metaphor, you can't prove that women are evil using a metaphor and a mathematical operation that is just suddenly called the same. =P

You can't prove that motion is an illusion, Newton proved it otherwise already.

AND ANOTHER THING: I can prove to you that space is quantitized. And this is not one of your 5th grade joke proofs.

I'll believe in evolution when I see a missing link that isn't fake.

Lol, you really are full of ignorance. You are more blind than all of the U.S. soldiers who went to Iraq together.

Etymology

French athéisme, from athée "atheist", from Greek ?? (atheós) "godless".

[edit] Pronunciation

    * IPA: /?e??i?z?m/

[edit] Noun

Singular
atheism
      

Plural
atheisms

atheism (plural atheisms)

   1. Absence of belief in any gods.
   2. Positive belief that no god exists.


I have no beleif, I don't care basically. It is almost amusing how right you know you are.

Etymology

French athéisme, from athée "atheist", from Greek ?? (atheós) "godless".

[edit] Pronunciation

    * IPA: /?e??i?z?m/

[edit] Noun

Singular
atheism
      

Plural
atheisms

atheism (plural atheisms)

   1. Absence of belief in any gods.
   2. Positive belief that no god exists.


I have no beleif, I don't care basically. It is almost amusing how right you know you are.

It comes to one simple thing. Fist off, most people in our position can come to the conclusion that religion on earth, is a man made thing. I have no problem saying the the idea of Chirstianity is so flawed, with no evidence and reallies too much on faith to say the the idea isn't worth entertaining in my mind. Many people do, as with all religions. Agnostics are one of these people, most don't feel that this type of religion and god are real.

The other type of god-creator out there, would be something called an "un-personal" god, one that may of started life, but has no direct involvement what so ever. This is plausible. The only thing is, there would be absolutely no reason to label it as just that, a god, a label that a less developed being would tend to give it.

I say the only definition of a god, are those from religion and that is something I can easily dissmiss.

Basically yep.
I'm making claims without anything to back them up just so people will get angry.
Because I'm just that bored!

I don't know what to say to you.
Also, if the OT was invalidated why do the Ten Commandments matter? :|

Please think before you post.

If he did, he would agree with us!

I can't prove that you're a guy, does that mean it's not a fact?!

Heh, I linked to this thread on my IRC chatroom and everyone thought Elegy was female because of his emo avatar.

Sadly when there is something that exists outside of scientific law and all boundaries don't apply, all you can do is speculate. I just happen to keep my "speculations" within the laws of physics. I was always told that god created science, and that its laws don't apply to him ( it ). With that said, my reply would always be that scientific law isn't a physical thing, so to speak of, and that it would be necessary for even a god to exist. If there was no law surrounding god, then it wouldn't exist. The law may be different, but it would have to be there. If a god exists, in a place outside of the mind, then its domain would have visible laws, even if they where: there are none.

Huh?

Of course then you get the other types who say that science and faith go hand in hand, and of course this type of guy likes to say he believes in science, but simply ignores parts and cuts and edits certain wordings to make them fit in. It's done in the same fashion of cheating at a jigsaw puzzle.

Syncretism, I guess!

I feel that when a Christian debates about science fitting in with their faith, it's like a fat guy telling you to eat healthy.

Faith is supposed to "explain" stuff until science can really explain it. But meh, it's just a point of view.

Yeah, mythology was used to explain the causes and origins of things.

I feel in a few decades that the term "Atheist" wont exist. I believe that it will simply be the norm' and no one would consider them selves to be that. The only downside to this is that Christians could use this as "Satan's 2000 year rain" and still believe in their faith...

I have a dream...

Yeah, some Christians are really being ridiculious. (-_-') It's a shame... =/ They want to be taken seriously, but then they start talking bullshit. =/

Indeed! They bitch and whine about not being mentioned, or about how their beliefs and customs aren't being utilised by the secular community (ie, 'under God', BCE/CE vs. BC/AD, etc.).

God gave humans the free will. He can't (or just doesn't want to? ?_?) manipulate humans in that way. So in other words, the Old Testament could easily be just made up.

Oh yeah, the Bible has been heavily changed and distorted by millennia of being rewritten over and over and over...

*kisses her to wake her up after 100 years*

Paedo :O

I thought I made it clear that there are no evidence, do you even read my posts?

You've only made clear that you're too ignorant to open the links and read them.

He wants to be taken seriously for believing in something without providing evidence for it, claiming that FAITH needs no reason to be taken as law written in stone. It's annoying how Christians do that!

Legs can take my everywhere, if speed is necessary, I'll start walking earlier.
If I get tired, I'll stop and rest. If I have a heavy load to carry, I skip it and do
something else instead..

Haha, sure.

Again, I tell you come over here to Croatia. If you come to your mind until you get here, I'll stand you a drink.

Since boats are also harmful to the environment, he'd have to use a rowboat. Except, these also are harmful since they use natural materials such as wood that have been processed in industrial shitholes that are contributing tremendously to the environmental woes of the day. So he'd have to use wood that he cuts himself from a tree that died 'of natural causes', and be extra careful not to allow his paddles to hit any creatures in the ocean. I wonder where Elegy lives, maybe he lives in western-Central USA, so that he'd have to walk all the way to California and then paddle his little rowboat down the Pacific, around Tierra del Fuego, and then north through the Atlantic, past Gibraltar through the Mediterranean, then to the Adriatic and land in a coastal town of Croatia.
I don't think he has the stuff for it.

Who are you to judge that your opinion is more likely?!

DUH, he has FAITH.

Temp-ban incoming!

This is where I first came in, State and Church don't need to be separated since the CHURCH is not a religious institution anymore.
If any of you have ever been to church you know that the "priests" just stand there babbling nonsense about things that have absolutely nothing to do with the religion.

...Wow.

I can't prove that you're a guy, does that mean it's not a fact?!

Yep, thats exactly what it means.
I might aswell be a girl pretending to be a guy, you can't know.

You BELIEVE it's normal milk, that makes it a religion?

A glass of milk is not something around which people center their lives, religion is a bit more important.
So no, it doesn't make it a religion, it makes it a false assumption.

Do you even know what the word "kill" means?

Kill: cause to die; put to death, usually intentionally or knowingly.

It was proven numerous times. It's just your ignorance that makes you fail to see and accept it.

It hasn't been proven, all that has been proven is that some people on this forum knows how to use the [ url ] function to link theoretical and biased websites.

You should get a life.

Emphasis on should.

Thanks for unlocking it, I fell asleep in the spa... ...

I find it strange that women use all of these creams and cucumber slices and everything and go roll in mud to keep themselves younger, yet men age alot slower than women and they do absolutely nothing to prevent it.
Theres this guy I know, he is 34 but the first time I saw him I could have sworn he was 18-19 like me.
And then when I see a girl who is 25ish, she looks like she's in her late 30's.

You've only made clear that you're too ignorant to open the links and read them.

And you just proved that you have no idea of what I'm talking about. MY faith, I was saying I can't prove that.

And last time I checked none of you knew my faith, now you're claiming there are links with proof of it in this thread.
Read before you reply.

If you didn't know, EVERYTHING was just theory, before it was proved. You can't say "It can't be, it's just a theory!", since it might come out that the theory was correct.

Can't have before without after, and "since it might come out that the theory was correct" isn't enough to claim something as truth, it might come out that there are aliens or something, that doesn't mean it's true.

Who are you to judge that your opinion is more likely?!

Your words, not mine.
I said that my personal opinion is that my faith is more likely.

Temp-ban incoming!

How come? You're doing the same thing, claiming stuff without backing it up.. You're supplying websites with so called proof, but giving me a paper with something someone else belives, you might aswell just ask a friend of yours to sign up and go
"Yeah hes right lol"

An opinion isn't proof.

You do. You have stated it already twice. (Or even three times? Can't remember.)

I've explained this, I did that to ridicule christianity, to make the point that in my opinion, even something as stupid as that would be more likely than evolution.

The difference is that Evolution is not a religion.

That doesn't change anything, it's still not proof, and thus I don't want to hear about it in school.

I can see you've never been on a worship, since you are talking crap here. And reading a book (the Bible in this case) isn't babbling if you didn't know. Don't believe me? Open the dictionary.

I don't know where you've been but all the churches I've been to (maybe 3, for reasons beyond my control) the priest just stands there saying things like:
"It's sunny outside and now in atumn the leaves are falling from the trees, thats how jesus wants to be, like a leave in the wind of your life, and the warmth.
To help you and this congregation, and your family, and jesus and the church.
And in our hearts..."

And thats usually when I stand up and walk away..
And everyone I've asked says the same thing, they never quote scripture or talk about anything important.

You can't prove that motion is an illusion, Newton proved it otherwise already.

Wanna bet?

Lol, you really are full of ignorance. You are more blind than all of the U.S. soldiers who went to Iraq together.

Thats just low... Comparing me to the americans.

I have no problem saying the the idea of Chirstianity is so flawed, with no evidence and reallies too much on faith to say the the idea isn't worth entertaining in my mind.

-_-

Why do you keep going on and on about the evidence, we've already concluded that religion is not something you're supposed to be able to prove.

Also, if the OT was invalidated why do the Ten Commandments matter? :|

John 13:34 "A new commandment I give unto you: that ye love one another, as I have loved you, that ye also love one another."

And the old testament wasn't invalidated, just the old laws and prophecies.

If he did, he would agree with us!

Never! Seriously though, science and logic aren't the pinnacle of human understanding.

Heh, I linked to this thread on my IRC chatroom and everyone thought Elegy was female because of his emo avatar.

Yay!

Sadly when there is something that exists outside of scientific law and all boundaries don't apply, all you can do is speculate. I just happen to keep my "speculations" within the laws of physics. I was always told that god created science, and that its laws don't apply to him ( it ). With that said, my reply would always be that scientific law isn't a physical thing, so to speak of, and that it would be necessary for even a god to exist. If there was no law surrounding god, then it wouldn't exist. The law may be different, but it would have to be there. If a god exists, in a place outside of the mind, then its domain would have visible laws, even if they where: there are none.

Huh?

Basically, she is saying: "If I can't touch it or see it, it's not there."

He wants to be taken seriously for believing in something without providing evidence for it, claiming that FAITH needs no reason to be taken as law written in stone. It's annoying how Christians do that!

Don't call me christian, and again:

I'm just doing this because I love instigating.

Just so you know, Instigate: "incite: provoke or stir up;"

Haha, sure.

Yeah, or I get a horse, either way it's legs that go places, what, do you think people were unable to move more than 50 meters in either direction before they invented cars?

Since boats are also harmful to the environment, he'd have to use a rowboat. Except, these also are harmful since they use natural materials such as wood that have been processed in industrial shitholes that are contributing tremendously to the environmental woes of the day. So he'd have to use wood that he cuts himself from a tree that died 'of natural causes', and be extra careful not to allow his paddles to hit any creatures in the ocean. I wonder where Elegy lives, maybe he lives in western-Central USA, so that he'd have to walk all the way to California and then paddle his little rowboat down the Pacific, around Tierra del Fuego, and then north through the Atlantic, past Gibraltar through the Mediterranean, then to the Adriatic and land in a coastal town of Croatia.
I don't think he has the stuff for it.

Don't call me american.. And theres nothing thats so important that I have to go to croatia, so I'll skip it, simple as that, just because you can do something doesn't mean you have to, unfortunately einstein and that other guy who invented the atomic bomb didn't really catch on to this, idiots those two.






In conclusion, kittens!

Please think before you post.

If he did, he would agree with us!

<3

I can't prove that you're a guy, does that mean it's not a fact?!

Heh, I linked to this thread on my IRC chatroom and everyone thought Elegy was female because of his emo avatar.

Well, he could be lying. =/

Yeah, some Christians are really being ridiculious. (-_-') It's a shame... =/ They want to be taken seriously, but then they start talking bullshit. =/

Indeed! They bitch and whine about not being mentioned, or about how their beliefs and customs aren't being utilised by the secular community (ie, 'under God', BCE/CE vs. BC/AD, etc.).

Yeah, it's always been the same. =/ During the entire history of the human race, it's always been the same. xD

God gave humans the free will. He can't (or just doesn't want to? ?_?) manipulate humans in that way. So in other words, the Old Testament could easily be just made up.

Oh yeah, the Bible has been heavily changed and distorted by millennia of being rewritten over and over and over...

That's true. You know that one part where it says that Jesus walked over water? Well, it was found out that it was a mistranslation. It should be next to the water and not over the water.

I thought I made it clear that there are no evidence, do you even read my posts?

You've only made clear that you're too ignorant to open the links and read them.

He wants to be taken seriously for believing in something without providing evidence for it, claiming that FAITH needs no reason to be taken as law written in stone. It's annoying how Christians do that!

You're doing it here as well if you didn't notice.

Since boats are also harmful to the environment, he'd have to use a rowboat. Except, these also are harmful since they use natural materials such as wood that have been processed in industrial shitholes that are contributing tremendously to the environmental woes of the day. So he'd have to use wood that he cuts himself from a tree that died 'of natural causes', and be extra careful not to allow his paddles to hit any creatures in the ocean. I wonder where Elegy lives, maybe he lives in western-Central USA, so that he'd have to walk all the way to California and then paddle his little rowboat down the Pacific, around Tierra del Fuego, and then north through the Atlantic, past Gibraltar through the Mediterranean, then to the Adriatic and land in a coastal town of Croatia.
I don't think he has the stuff for it.

<3

I can't prove that you're a guy, does that mean it's not a fact?!

Yep, thats exactly what it means.
I might aswell be a girl pretending to be a guy, you can't know.

You fail to see the point again. Let me rephrase it: I can't prove you're a human being. Does that means it's not fact?

You BELIEVE it's normal milk, that makes it a religion?

A glass of milk is not something around which people center their lives, religion is a bit more important.
So no, it doesn't make it a religion, it makes it a false assumption.

If your life depends on it and drinking poisoned milk pretty much does, then it makes it the same. I could make tons of comparisons like this. The point is that you can't just take anything how little or how big it is and stamp the word religion on only because it has the same characteristics.
And if you didn't know RELIGION and BELIEF/FAITH/CREED are NOT THE SAME.
Believing in something doesn't make it a religion. Therefore how you call it "believing in Evolution" doesn't make Evolution a religion which you are claiming all the time and which was already misproved numerous times in this topic.

Do you even know what the word "kill" means?

Kill: cause to die; put to death, usually intentionally or knowingly.

Intentionally or knowingly is the only correct thing here. To kill doesn't only include a physical action. Obviously you don't know the entire meaning of the word.

It was proven numerous times. It's just your ignorance that makes you fail to see and accept it.

It hasn't been proven, all that has been proven is that some people on this forum knows how to use the [ url ] function to link theoretical and biased websites.

Do you know what induction is? Obviously not.

You should get a life.

Emphasis on should.

I was trying to be nice. You don't want me to? Ok, then go get a life. And if you're still going to talk about your matter instead of being on-topic, GTFO of this thread. Any other post by you that isn't on-topic will be deleted.

Thanks for unlocking it, I fell asleep in the spa... ...

I find it strange that women use all of these creams and cucumber slices and everything and go roll in mud to keep themselves younger, yet men age alot slower than women and they do absolutely nothing to prevent it.
Theres this guy I know, he is 34 but the first time I saw him I could have sworn he was 18-19 like me.
And then when I see a girl who is 25ish, she looks like she's in her late 30's.

1. You're going even more off-topic now.
2. If you didn't know, men age faster than women. It's not just a joke that the life span of women is about 4~6 years longer than the life span of men.

You've only made clear that you're too ignorant to open the links and read them.

And you just proved that you have no idea of what I'm talking about. MY faith, I was saying I can't prove that.

How am I supposed to know what you are talking about if you don't know it yourself?!

And last time I checked none of you knew my faith, now you're claiming there are links with proof of it in this thread.
Read before you reply.

Why should I? You're obviously not reading our posts (and the information we are providing you) either. What makes you better than us that we have to read your posts, but you don't have to read ours?!

If you didn't know, EVERYTHING was just theory, before it was proved. You can't say "It can't be, it's just a theory!", since it might come out that the theory was correct.

Can't have before without after, and "since it might come out that the theory was correct" isn't enough to claim something as truth, it might come out that there are aliens or something, that doesn't mean it's true.

That also means what you are saying doesn't have to be true. Yet, you are still claiming how the human race is the root of all evil and that it will destroy the entire planet.

Who are you to judge that your opinion is more likely?!

Your words, not mine.
I said that my personal opinion is that my faith is more likely.

My bad. Let me rephrase it:
Who are you to judge that your faith is more likely?!

Temp-ban incoming!

How come? You're doing the same thing, claiming stuff without backing it up.. You're supplying websites with so called proof, but giving me a paper with something someone else belives, you might aswell just ask a friend of yours to sign up and go
"Yeah hes right lol"

An opinion isn't proof.

1)

I'm not here either to prove anything. I am waiting for you to prove yours as well. Dead end, eh?

2) Have you had quantum physics? Pretty much everything is just theory, it was proved theoretically, yet it works. According to you, it's all just bullshit. And that doesn't go only for quantum physics. Pretty much all parts of physics work that way.

3) So you admit that you've just come here to annoy people? Oh, you already did in a much more obvious way:

Basically yep.
I'm making claims without anything to back them up just so people will get angry.
Because I'm just that bored!

THAT's the reason for the ban, not the fact you being an idiot all the time, but being it intentionally.

You do. You have stated it already twice. (Or even three times? Can't remember.)

I've explained this, I did that to ridicule christianity, to make the point that in my opinion, even something as stupid as that would be more likely than evolution.

I'm Catholic and I think Evolution is much more likely than an old guy sitting on the clouds which is as first impossible and as second it's a ridiculious idea by itself.

The difference is that Evolution is not a religion.

That doesn't change anything, it's still not proof, and thus I don't want to hear about it in school.

You're being taught partially false history in school, why don't you want to hear bout that, too?! And you're being taught physics which (according to you) are not totally true either, since most of it was only proven theoretically either.

I can see you've never been on a worship, since you are talking crap here. And reading a book (the Bible in this case) isn't babbling if you didn't know. Don't believe me? Open the dictionary.

I don't know where you've been but all the churches I've been to (maybe 3, for reasons beyond my control) the priest just stands there saying things like:
"It's sunny outside and now in atumn the leaves are falling from the trees, thats how jesus wants to be, like a leave in the wind of your life, and the warmth.
To help you and this congregation, and your family, and jesus and the church.
And in our hearts..."

And thats usually when I stand up and walk away..
And everyone I've asked says the same thing, they never quote scripture or talk about anything important.

Lol, I've never heard something like that in a Church.

You can't prove that motion is an illusion, Newton proved it otherwise already.

Wanna bet?

Try me.

Lol, you really are full of ignorance. You are more blind than all of the U.S. soldiers who went to Iraq together.

Thats just low... Comparing me to the americans.

Yes, that was mean, I admit it. I shouldn't have insulted the Americans in such a way. I am sorry.

I have no problem saying the the idea of Chirstianity is so flawed, with no evidence and reallies too much on faith to say the the idea isn't worth entertaining in my mind.

-_-

Why do you keep going on and on about the evidence, we've already concluded that religion is not something you're supposed to be able to prove.

I agree on that part.

Also, if the OT was invalidated why do the Ten Commandments matter? :|

John 13:34 "A new commandment I give unto you: that ye love one another, as I have loved you, that ye also love one another."

And the old testament wasn't invalidated, just the old laws and prophecies.

Exactly. Jesus put all the ten commandments into the 2 commandments of love. Elegy forgot the first one, lol!

If he did, he would agree with us!

Never! Seriously though, science and logic aren't the pinnacle of human understanding.

And religion is?! Lol!

Sadly when there is something that exists outside of scientific law and all boundaries don't apply, all you can do is speculate. I just happen to keep my "speculations" within the laws of physics. I was always told that god created science, and that its laws don't apply to him ( it ). With that said, my reply would always be that scientific law isn't a physical thing, so to speak of, and that it would be necessary for even a god to exist. If there was no law surrounding god, then it wouldn't exist. The law may be different, but it would have to be there. If a god exists, in a place outside of the mind, then its domain would have visible laws, even if they where: there are none.

Huh?

Basically, she is saying: "If I can't touch it or see it, it's not there."

Not exactly. She said "If I can't touch it or see it, it just can't be there. It wouldn't make any sense."

Don't call me christian, and again:

But you're worse than any Christian I have met in my life. And I have met many. I live in a Catholic country, remember?

Haha, sure.

Yeah, or I get a horse, either way it's legs that go places, what, do you think people were unable to move more than 50 meters in either direction before they invented cars?

Why don't you come over here to Croatia then?! \/ there you are saying I am not important enough, duh.

Since boats are also harmful to the environment, he'd have to use a rowboat. Except, these also are harmful since they use natural materials such as wood that have been processed in industrial shitholes that are contributing tremendously to the environmental woes of the day. So he'd have to use wood that he cuts himself from a tree that died 'of natural causes', and be extra careful not to allow his paddles to hit any creatures in the ocean. I wonder where Elegy lives, maybe he lives in western-Central USA, so that he'd have to walk all the way to California and then paddle his little rowboat down the Pacific, around Tierra del Fuego, and then north through the Atlantic, past Gibraltar through the Mediterranean, then to the Adriatic and land in a coastal town of Croatia.
I don't think he has the stuff for it.

Don't call me american.. And theres nothing thats so important that I have to go to croatia, so I'll skip it, simple as that, just because you can do something doesn't mean you have to, unfortunately einstein and that other guy who invented the atomic bomb didn't really catch on to this, idiots those two.

@Gono: Yes, don't insult the Americans in such a mean way. An American would have read your post and replied instead of just evading it by taking the part out he likes most and just answer to that. He didn't mention even ONE of the things that are actually making the point

@Elegy: You seem to be missing the point from our posts over and over intentionally, since there can't be a human being so stupid to miss it in over 90% of the cases.

It hasn't been proven, all that has been proven is that some people on this forum knows how to use the [ url ] function to link theoretical and biased websites.

And it proves you don't know how to click them!

And you just proved that you have no idea of what I'm talking about. MY faith, I was saying I can't prove that.

Then why don't you shut the fuck up?

Read before you reply.

Interestingly enough, I do. Why don't you start yourself?

An opinion isn't proof.

Says you, of all people!

I don't know where you've been but all the churches I've been to (maybe 3, for reasons beyond my control) the priest just stands there saying things like:
"It's sunny outside and now in atumn the leaves are falling from the trees, thats how jesus wants to be, like a leave in the wind of your life, and the warmth.
To help you and this congregation, and your family, and jesus and the church.
And in our hearts..."

I've never heard shit like that, at the church of my family the pastor just bitches about how America's not Christian enough and that God is judging America for rebelling against Him by tying up American forces in the Middle East and whatever other shit that's happening to us, and that our young people need to stop fucking.

Thats just low... Comparing me to the americans.

Where are you from anyways? I bet you live in Midwest America.

Why do you keep going on and on about the evidence, we've already concluded that religion is not something you're supposed to be able to prove.

Because evidence is a good thing to have before believing anything?

John 13:34 "A new commandment I give unto you: that ye love one another, as I have loved you, that ye also love one another."

:O
YOU READ THE BIBLE!?

And the old testament wasn't invalidated, just the old laws and prophecies.

So the Ten Commandments are still invalid?

Never! Seriously though, science and logic aren't the pinnacle of human understanding.

Holy fucking shit.

Don't call me christian, and again:

I'm just doing this because I love instigating.

Just so you know, Instigate: "incite: provoke or stir up;"

That just shows your ignorance.

Yeah, or I get a horse, either way it's legs that go places, what, do you think people were unable to move more than 50 meters in either direction before they invented cars?

Horses are woefully inadequate for travel in most places in modern countries. You can't use a horse in NYC very easily, for example. Or raise one. Furthermore, that's exploiting animals! :O

Don't call me american.. And theres nothing thats so important that I have to go to croatia, so I'll skip it, simple as that, just because you can do something doesn't mean you have to, unfortunately einstein and that other guy who invented the atomic bomb didn't really catch on to this, idiots those two.

Yeah, it really would have been better if we didn't use the atomic bomb. The invasion of Japan wouldn't have been at such a cost (even though, what, a few hundred thousand to a million were estimated to have died vs. a few ten thousand?).
Also, poor Einstein. He felt guilty for the rest of his life for his implication in the bombing. And you should be shot for calling the MANY PEOPLE who worked on the atomic bomb idiots if for none of the other bullshit you've said.

That's true. You know that one part where it says that Jesus walked over water? Well, it was found out that it was a mistranslation. It should be next to the water and not over the water.

Heh, orly?

You're doing it here as well if you didn't notice.

How so?

How am I supposed to know what you are talking about if you don't know it yourself?!

I'm Catholic and I think Evolution is much more likely than an old guy sitting on the clouds which is as first impossible and as second it's a ridiculious idea by itself.

Oh, how the Catholic Church has changed! Five hundred years ago you would have been tortured and killed for this heresy.
Also, anyone else annoyed by how Elegy equates 'the church' with 'the Catholic church'?

You're being taught partially false history in school, why don't you want to hear bout that, too?! And you're being taught physics which (according to you) are not totally true either, since most of it was only proven theoretically either.

Yeah, it's a shame how our schools teach science nowadays.

Not exactly. She said "If I can't touch it or see it, it just can't be there. It wouldn't make any sense."

I'm still not sure how I feel on this issue.

But you're worse than any Christian I have met in my life. And I have met many. I live in a Catholic country, remember?

Heh, I've been in a Southern Baptist church all of my life. He's worse than them even!

Why don't you come over here to Croatia then?! \/ there you are saying I am not important enough, duh.

If he wants to use travel animals he should immigrate to a poverty stricken country somewhere, there are plenty! If he wants to live in a happy golucky society that is 'in tune' with the environment, he should go find some tribes to live with deep in Amazonas, Brazil or Papua New Guinea.

@Gono: Yes, don't insult the Americans in such a mean way. An American would have read your post and replied instead of just evading it by taking the part out he likes most and just answer to that. He didn't mention even ONE of the things that are actually making the point

Yeah :/

@Elegy: You seem to be missing the point from our posts over and over intentionally, since there can't be a human being so stupid to miss it in over 90% of the cases.

Well, we haven't proven that he is human yet!

THAT's the reason for the ban, not the fact you being an idiot all the time, but being it intentionally.

Well it's not my fault that you start taking an argument with zero chance of anything but belligerence, seriously.
Lighten up, it's just a stupid religion argument.

You're being taught partially false history in school, why don't you want to hear bout that, too?! And you're being taught physics which (according to you) are not totally true either, since most of it was only proven theoretically either.

Wrong! It's the teachers who ask me whats right or wrong.


Ok, motion is an illusion:
Imagine that you fire and arrow at a target, and then when the arrow hits you take the timespan between realease and impact and just visualize it infront of you, then you cut that in half, making two equal parts of the timespan.

Repeate the process for an infinite amount of times and you will get that the arrow at all times is in a specific location.
And something that is fixed in a specific location at any time cannot logically be moving.

Exactly. Jesus put all the ten commandments into the 2 commandments of love. Elegy forgot the first one, lol!

Nope, I just skipped it.

And religion is?! Lol!

How should I know? I just know that science and logic aren't it.

But you're worse than any Christian I have met in my life. And I have met many. I live in a Catholic country, remember?

Yes >:3 I'm the worst kind of person there is, an anarchist. (Yay for contradictory labeling)

Why don't you come over here to Croatia then?! \/ there you are saying I am not important enough, duh.

I don't wanna :< Croatia is no fun.
(besides if I wanted to go to croatia, an airplane would be easier)

You seem to be missing the point from our posts over and over intentionally, since there can't be a human being so stupid to miss it in over 90% of the cases.

No, I just don't feel the need to respond to them.
Read cat's post, theres not even a question in there for me to answer, just a rant about trees and sea creatures and california.

And it proves you don't know how to click them!

I do know how to click them, I just choose not to.

Then why don't you shut the fuck up?

Swearing makes a person seem very unedjucated, and it doesn't create a constructive dialogue.

An opinion isn't proof.

Says you, of all people!

Yes, I did say that, do you have a question regarding that?

Where are you from anyways? I bet you live in Midwest America.

Well that depends, how much are you willing to bet?

Because evidence is a good thing to have before believing anything?

Well thats a contradictory thing to say, if there's evidence that means it's fact, and you can't believe in facts, it simply is that way.

:O
YOU READ THE BIBLE!?

No, why?

So the Ten Commandments are still invalid?

Yes, they are replaced by the new "commandments".

That just shows your ignorance.

No, that shows that I'm not a nice person, ignorant and callous are two different things.

And you should be shot for calling the MANY PEOPLE who worked on the atomic bomb idiots if for none of the other bullshit you've said.

Yes, I should be shot for calling a device that might very well destroy the only habitable planet in the universe, a stupid idea.
I feel sorry for you if you're really serious about applauding the nuclear bomb, thats messed up.

How am I supposed to know what you are talking about if you don't know it yourself?!

You're not!

Oh, how the Catholic Church has changed! Five hundred years ago you would have been tortured and killed for this heresy.
Also, anyone else annoyed by how Elegy equates 'the church' with 'the Catholic church'?

Protestant, Catholic, I don't care.
They both worship the same god.

Potato... ... More potato..

If he wants to use travel animals he should immigrate to a poverty stricken country somewhere, there are plenty! If he wants to live in a happy golucky society that is 'in tune' with the environment, he should go find some tribes to live with deep in Amazonas, Brazil or Papua New Guinea.

That would be so awesome.

Protestant, Catholic, I don't care.
They both worship the same god.

Wow, you really are ignorant. I knew the differences between those in the SEVENTH GRADE. And they are far and wide, let me tell you. You dislike them, I would assume. Given your attitude, I would also assume you want nothing to do with either. That being said, you probably haven't spent much time studying up on them, and, *GASP*, that little comment PROVES that last one, and seeing as how my other arguments are what that one was built off of then they must all be true!

*delighted squeal*

So, since all of that is correct, shouldn't you be the last person to try and debate a topic like this one?

No, that PROVES that I don't want to give away wether or not I know anything about the two.
You shouldn't assume that what I say is the truth, wether it be an opinion or a statement.

I have a mind of my own and I know exactly how to use it to mislead people, it's my speciality.

OMFG.

THAT WAS SO DUMB.

I'M OUT OF THIS TOPIC BEFORE I START LOSING MY BRAIN CELLS.

I don't even have to explain WHY that was a stupid thing to say, you know full well what I mean.

Yes >:3 I'm the worst kind of person there is, an anarchist. (Yay for contradictory labeling)

We all know you're an anarchist. Anarchy's less conformist than believing that maybe government's a good idea!

I don't wanna :< Croatia is no fun.
(besides if I wanted to go to croatia, an airplane would be easier)

But oh so destructive

No, I just don't feel the need to respond to them.
Read cat's post, theres not even a question in there for me to answer, just a rant about trees and sea creatures and california.

We've already had plenty of things for you answer.
For example, Saladin discusses a recent prodoteuct of evolution. In that same post, he raises other points. Why don't you tell us why this is moot to evolution, eh?

I do know how to click them, I just choose not to.

I really think all idiots should die. And you should be the first.

Swearing makes a person seem very unedjucated, and it doesn't create a constructive dialogue.

uneducated*

Well that depends, how much are you willing to bet?

Wow, you're witty!

Well thats a contradictory thing to say, if there's evidence that means it's fact, and you can't believe in facts, it simply is that way.

You don't know what 'believe' means, either?

No, why?

NO YOU MUST READ YOUR BIBLE EVERY MORNING OR ELSE SATAN WILL ATTACK YOU!

Yes, I should be shot for calling a device that might very well destroy the only habitable planet in the universe, a stupid idea.
I feel sorry for you if you're really serious about applauding the nuclear bomb, thats messed up.

First off, I said the people not the idea- they were obviously very intelligent to be able to create the bomb.
Secondly, they did it because it would end a prolonged conflict. Using the bomb ended up saving thousands upon thousands of lives.
Thirdly, it has helped deter many other wars that would be costly in life.
Finally, you don't know that it's 'the only habitable planet in the universe'.

That would be so awesome.

I'd like to document an Amazonian language!

Protestant, Catholic, I don't care.
They both worship the same god.

You dislike them, I would assume. Given your attitude, I would also assume you want nothing to do with either.

Joining institutions is conformist.

OMFG.

THAT WAS SO DUMB.

I'M OUT OF THIS TOPIC BEFORE I START LOSING MY BRAIN CELLS.

I don't even have to explain WHY that was a stupid thing to say, you know full well what I mean.

I'm so sorry

Oh and,

Do you even know what "THOU SHALT NOT KILL..." means? Do you even know what the word "kill" means?

Stop stealing my shtick, you bastard!

That's true. You know that one part where it says that Jesus walked over water? Well, it was found out that it was a mistranslation. It should be next to the water and not over the water.

Heh, orly?

Yarly.

You're doing it here as well if you didn't notice.

Wasn't that directed at Elegy? xD

I'm Catholic and I think Evolution is much more likely than an old guy sitting on the clouds which is as first impossible and as second it's a ridiculious idea by itself.

Oh, how the Catholic Church has changed! Five hundred years ago you would have been tortured and killed for this heresy.
Also, anyone else annoyed by how Elegy equates 'the church' with 'the Catholic church'?

Well, a guy sitting on a cloud is really ridiculious. (-_-') I mean, we're not superstitious, lol!

@Elegy: You seem to be missing the point from our posts over and over intentionally, since there can't be a human being so stupid to miss it in over 90% of the cases.

Well, we haven't proven that he is human yet!

<3 Only because I assume it, it doesn't mean that it's fact according to Elegy! xD

THAT's the reason for the ban, not the fact you being an idiot all the time, but being it intentionally.

Well it's not my fault that you start taking an argument with zero chance of anything but belligerence, seriously.
Lighten up, it's just a stupid religion argument.

No, it's not. It's about separation of State and Church. You just came in here claiming some stuff without any proof. Yes, you are claiming things to be fact and you are switching your opinion every post.

You're being taught partially false history in school, why don't you want to hear bout that, too?! And you're being taught physics which (according to you) are not totally true either, since most of it was only proven theoretically either.

Wrong! It's the teachers who ask me whats right or wrong.

You're so blind it hurts my eyes to continue reading your posts.

Ok, motion is an illusion:
Imagine that you fire and arrow at a target, and then when the arrow hits you take the timespan between realease and impact and just visualize it infront of you, then you cut that in half, making two equal parts of the timespan.

Repeate the process for an infinite amount of times and you will get that the arrow at all times is in a specific location.
And something that is fixed in a specific location at any time cannot logically be moving.

Oh sweet, I didn't know about this PROOF THAT SPACE AND TIME ARE QUANTIZED yet. Motion is not an illusion. You didn't prove it here. Here is another proof that space is quantized and that motion IS NOT an illusion:

We have two opponents racing against each other. Only one dimension is taken into consideration (as already 2D would be too complex to type down). One is a rabbit, the other a turtle. The rabbit gives the turtle 10 meters head start. Now, the turtle is 10 times slower than the rabbit. Ok, let's start:
The rabbit runs 10 meters, the turtle runs 1 meter. The rabbit runs 1 meter, the turtle runs 0.1 meters. The rabbit runs 0.1 meters, the turtle runs 0.01 meter. And so on... Now, to the given logic the rabbit will NEVER catch up with the turtle and pass by. We all know this is bullshit. Now, here is the explanation why the rabbit WILL catch up and pass by the turtle:
The space is quatized, that means the space consists out of little discrete parts and is not continious. At one point, the rabbit and the turtle will be in the same quant. The turtle doesn't have enough energy to jump into the next quant of space while the rabbit does. This means space has to be quantized and movement is NOT AN ILLUSION, but spending energy to jump from one quant into another.

(<3 at my Math prof at my college for telling us that a year ago )

Now, disprove it if you can, smartass. =P

And religion is?! Lol!

How should I know?

Why are you claiming it then?

But you're worse than any Christian I have met in my life. And I have met many. I live in a Catholic country, remember?

Yes >:3 I'm the worst kind of person there is, an anarchist. (Yay for contradictory labeling)

That's so cute. Kids who think they are badass are so adorable. Usually when they grow up they become very normal. Happened to me as well.

Why don't you come over here to Croatia then?! \/ there you are saying I am not important enough, duh.

I don't wanna :< Croatia is no fun.
(besides if I wanted to go to croatia, an airplane would be easier)

:O What's with your great feet and horses and stuff?! :O
And Croatia is more fun than you think. Since you seem not to like humans, but nature, you would love this country. BTW, I hate it, because most people here are ignorant.

You seem to be missing the point from our posts over and over intentionally, since there can't be a human being so stupid to miss it in over 90% of the cases.

No, I just don't feel the need to respond to them.
Read cat's post, theres not even a question in there for me to answer, just a rant about trees and sea creatures and california.

And here's the reason why I won't respond to your posts anymore. I'll just ignore you after this post. You're not worth of my time.

Because evidence is a good thing to have before believing anything?

Well thats a contradictory thing to say, if there's evidence that means it's fact, and you can't believe in facts, it simply is that way.

Jesus is a fact, the bible. Muhamed is a fact, Kuran is a fact. Buddha is a fact. etc.

:O
YOU READ THE BIBLE!?

No, why?

You're quoting "interior" stuff from the Bible.

That just shows your ignorance.

No, that shows that I'm not a nice person, ignorant and callous are two different things.

I can differ between them. A "not nice person" doesn't say "Good sir" and stuff like you did. As I said, I think kids trying to be anarchist are so cute. <3

How am I supposed to know what you are talking about if you don't know it yourself?!

You're not!

Ok.

Oh, how the Catholic Church has changed! Five hundred years ago you would have been tortured and killed for this heresy.
Also, anyone else annoyed by how Elegy equates 'the church' with 'the Catholic church'?

Protestant, Catholic, I don't care.
They both worship the same god.

Lol, all religions worship the same God. It's only the way to worship and the name how they call him that's different. Shows again that you have no idea what you're talking about.

If he wants to use travel animals he should immigrate to a poverty stricken country somewhere, there are plenty! If he wants to live in a happy golucky society that is 'in tune' with the environment, he should go find some tribes to live with deep in Amazonas, Brazil or Papua New Guinea.

That would be so awesome.

Bye and good luck. Walking so far isn't easy.

I have a mind of my own and I know exactly how to use it to mislead people, it's my speciality.

Please, don't cut yourself, because you didn't have any success here yet.
Wait, weren't you on your way to Brazil?! :O

No, why?

NO YOU MUST READ YOUR BIBLE EVERY MORNING OR ELSE SATAN WILL ATTACK YOU!

<3

Yes, I should be shot for calling a device that might very well destroy the only habitable planet in the universe, a stupid idea.
I feel sorry for you if you're really serious about applauding the nuclear bomb, thats messed up.

First off, I said the people not the idea- they were obviously very intelligent to be able to create the bomb.
Secondly, they did it because it would end a prolonged conflict. Using the bomb ended up saving thousands upon thousands of lives.
Thirdly, it has helped deter many other wars that would be costly in life.
Finally, you don't know that it's 'the only habitable planet in the universe'.

<3

That would be so awesome.

I'd like to document an Amazonian language!

Yeah, if you ever come back (please God, don't make it happen), I want you to teach me Amazonian.

Do you even know what "THOU SHALT NOT KILL..." means? Do you even know what the word "kill" means?

Stop stealing my shtick, you bastard!

Sorry. :=

You were offtopic, Elegy. Your post was deleted.

No, it's not. It's about separation of State and Church.

Not anymore it's not!

But it'll be again.

Why are you claiming it then?

I'm just doing this because I love instigating.

You're just repeating yourself over and over again.

That's so cute. Kids who think they are badass are so adorable. Usually when they grow up they become very normal. Happened to me as well.

What's so "badass" about anarchy?

You don't even know what anarchy if you ask me that.

Most of humanity is ignorant, theres no escaping it.

I agree with that. You're the pinnacle.

And here's the reason why I won't respond to your posts anymore. I'll just ignore you after this post. You're not worth of my time.

Well I'm not gon, I don't make up my own questions and answer them, if there are no questions to answer, I won't reply.

Yes, you don't answer them at all. You have evaded now more than half of mine.

You're quoting "interior" stuff from the Bible.

I don't get it.

Too high for you.

Lol, you didn't achieve anything. Wait, weren't you on your way to Brazil?! :O

Or did I?

Nope. Only you've achieved is messing up this topic. That's not really a success...

uneducated*

Oh no, a typo!

Again, you fail to see the point.


Now, where was I...? Ah, yes...

Seperating Church and State is actually only one step in achieving something. The main problem is that politicians are constantly lying. How are we gonna stop that, lol?

I'm repeating myself because thats my reason, I'm just doing it to piss people off.
But I'm done with that now.

And on topic, anarchy!!!
I know it's a utopian worldview to think everyone can just mind their own business and stop trying to tell people what to do.

But then again democracy and communism are utopian worldviews too, they're based on the assumption that people deep within just want whats best for everyone.


I don't see the issue though, the only difference if the state separated from the church was that they would stop using God to try and justify all the horrible things they do.
It's not like they are doing anything besides imprinting the word lightly into the edges of their socio-political agenda to try and gain more votes from the suckers who actually think it's worthwhile voting.

Since the church exists to indoctrinate the people, the state won't rid it from the system, seeing how it provides a part of the population as loyal subjects ready to be exploited like the marionettes they are, for 'the good of the state', training them to be police and military to keep the population under check and undermine their authority in society, causing the prevention of revolution to overthrow the consequentially facist regimes.


Have you never asked yourself why with the changes in government, law enforcement and army remains unaltered?
If these two organizations are existant to protect the country and enforce the ethical system of the state, shouldn't they obide to each of their convictions and be replaced when a different governing system is introduced?
Can you really claim that these people are protecting what they stand for when they protect each and every government just as the last one, despite change in politics and operating procedures?

Or are they just there to protect the status-quo between government and citizens, or rather, denizens?

So would the separation of church and state really make a difference, or is it just about semantics?

As I said, it might only be the first step. There is a lot more to do than just separate State and Church. Most likely this even isn't gonna change much. The problem is that politicians will always be lying to us, no matter what. The main problem is to stop them abusing the system for their own gain. I mean, seriously, why should somebody spent, IDK, 300000$ for a vote campaign, when he will earn only 240000$ for the few years he's gonna be governor?! Politicians are stealing would be the only reasonable answer. =/

And the worst thing when they get the power is that they really start abusing it. Everybody who tries to be honest gets out of the game faster than you can say "Politicians lie a lot.". Maybe another problem would be corruption. =/

Please, I beg of you to ban this dumbfuck and lock this thread.

Stay on topic!

Please, I beg of you to ban this dumbfuck and lock this thread.

Yeah I agree.... I can do the locking...


THIS TOPIC IS LOCKED DUE TO AN EMO TROLL.

Please, I beg of you to ban this dumbfuck and lock this thread.

*posts in a locked topic*
Silverline has disabled the ban feature for normal mods again. =/ I told him already, but he only posted here instead of banning our 11 years old emo kid. =/

I'm repeating myself because thats my reason, I'm just doing it to piss people off.
But I'm done with that now.

For someone who's been pissing people off since 1989, you're not as good at it as one would think. Actually, the only reason you piss people off is by how morbidly stupid you are.

You say you're done with that now, but are you really? This is your only chance; life is too short to deal with all your bullshit, so start having some serious discussion, or you're out of here. You really don't deserve this chance, by the way.